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Topic: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: JoePatroni707
Posted 2013-09-13 15:57:26 and read 14520 times.

I was looking at the fleet in DECS the other day (JD*ALL) and I noticed a new sub fleet AA will introduce with fleet number 3LC. All the other 737s are 73D ship 3AA-3LB. Will ship 3LC be the first with all leather interior and personal TV's.

On a similar topic, I know AA has no plans to retro fit existing 737s with leather and personal TVs why is AA even bothering with the few. I think all said and done AA will have less than 30 737s with leather and personal TVs when its all said and done. (Till the 737 max arrives in 2017). So why bother, to me it would create a inconsistent product and create confusion for customers...

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: mhkansan
Posted 2013-09-13 17:54:43 and read 14002 times.

Awesome! Exciting that AA will be able to specifically deploy these AC to select markets!

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: OB1504
Posted 2013-09-13 18:27:23 and read 13849 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
So why bother, to me it would create a inconsistent product and create confusion for customers...

Because that's clAAsic AA. That being said, I welcome the addition of these newly outfitted aircraft.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-09-13 18:38:09 and read 13764 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
I think all said and done AA will have less than 30 737s with leather and personal TVs when its all said and done.

Somehow I missed that they were doing this. WHY are they doing this?

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-09-13 18:54:02 and read 13675 times.

Isn't it the same exact seats going in the Airbus fleet?

Last time I checked, it's cheaper to buy one type of seat in bulk for the entire narrowbody cabin than two. It's pretty easy to see why the 738s are getting the new seats.

And the older models will absolutely get the new seats, just not for a while. They'll need new interiors at some point.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: N62NA
Posted 2013-09-13 18:59:05 and read 13649 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
Isn't it the same exact seats going in the Airbus fleet?

Well..... IF they are the same exact seats that are going in the Airbus fleet...

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):

Last time I checked, it's cheaper to buy one type of seat in bulk for the entire narrowbody cabin than two. It's pretty easy to see why the 738s are getting the new seats.

Then I imagine that it would be cheaper to buy one type of seat in bulk for the entire narrowbody fleet.

[Edited 2013-09-13 18:59:51]

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: Mah4546
Posted 2013-09-13 19:02:02 and read 13636 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
Well..... IF they are the same exact seats that are going in the Airbus fleet...

AA is advertising them as the same exact seats, so I assume, yes, they are. Hopefully the F seats are an improvement over the inexcusable excuse for F seats on the 738/752.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: JoePatroni707
Posted 2013-09-13 19:06:58 and read 13597 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 6):
Hopefully the F seats are an improvement over the inexcusable excuse for F seats on the 738/752.

Based on the pictures I have seen in the A319, I think you may be disappointed...  

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: bmibaby737
Posted 2013-09-14 01:49:40 and read 12852 times.

Is the configuration actually changing on these aircraft, too?

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: sevenheavy
Posted 2013-09-14 02:14:09 and read 12803 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 6):
AA is advertising them as the same exact seats, so I assume, yes, they are. Hopefully the F seats are an improvement over the inexcusable excuse for F seats on the 738/752.

I always thought the A319/20/21 fuselage cross section was wider than the B737 and as such airlines generally offered a slightly wider seat in the Airbus?

I've seen this advertised in the past, although I guess the extra space might just allow for a wider aisle.

Or are they able to get two slightly different dimensions of the same seat?

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2013-09-14 03:30:04 and read 12442 times.

Not so sure if AA will not convert current 738's, definitely not to BSI but ultimately they would get new seats, new interiors but not necessarily non-BSI will be converted to BSI. Don't see why they would not get the new seats, IFE, etc.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: MIflyer12
Posted 2013-09-14 04:48:12 and read 12004 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
On a similar topic, I know AA has no plans to retro fit existing 737s with leather and personal TVs why is AA even bothering with the few. I think all said and done AA will have less than 30 737s with leather and personal TVs when its all said and done.

Are you arguing it would be better (for AA, for passengers?) to have zero 737s with video, instead of ~30?

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: AA94
Posted 2013-09-14 09:07:33 and read 10074 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
On a similar topic, I know AA has no plans to retro fit existing 737s with leather and personal TVs why is AA even bothering with the few. I think all said and done AA will have less than 30 737s with leather and personal TVs when its all said and done. (Till the 737 max arrives in 2017). So why bother, to me it would create a inconsistent product and create confusion for customers...

Why is this a question? AA is attempting to improve their product for their customers. I'm not sure how AA deploys its 737s, but considering that they use the 738 on transcon routes like IADLAX and BOSLAX, it seems like they may want to be able to deploy these retrofitted 738s on routes of that nature.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: Yakflyer
Posted 2013-09-14 09:12:06 and read 10013 times.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 9):
I always thought the A319/20/21 fuselage cross section was wider than the B737 and as such airlines generally offered a slightly wider seat in the Airbus?

Airbus 320s & 319s do have a wider cross section than the 737. Some airlines take advantage of the wider cross section to give passengers a little more hip room and others do not. I believe it has to do with commonality with other fleet types if the smaller seats are installed in Airbus aircraft. My experience on Untied's 319s & 320s is roomier seats while on Delta I find the same seats as the Boeings. Delta's 320s & 319s came from NW so that may be a NW decision that lives on. It will be interesting to see how Delta equips the 321s they just ordered.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-09-14 09:12:11 and read 10014 times.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 9):
I always thought the A319/20/21 fuselage cross section was wider than the B737 and as such airlines generally offered a slightly wider seat in the Airbus?

Internally it is, but is only noticeable to pax  .
To the equipment the inch or so does not make much of a difference.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: oc2dc
Posted 2013-09-14 09:40:20 and read 9736 times.

Quoting AA94 (Reply 12):
I'm not sure how AA deploys its 737s, but considering that they use the 738 on transcon routes like IADLAX and BOSLAX, it seems like they may want to be able to deploy these retrofitted 738s on routes of that nature.

I completely agree. It would definitely behoove AA to deploy these aircraft from JFK and LAX. Both JFK and LAX have many transcons with high competition. It would be nice to have a product that can actually compete with competitors like B6 and DL.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
I think all said and done AA will have less than 30 737s with leather and personal TVs when its all said and done. (Till the 737 max arrives in 2017).

How did you come up with the number 30? Just curious... I'm pretty sure they have more than 30 737NG's on order so their will definitely be more.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: LGA777
Posted 2013-09-14 09:52:25 and read 9584 times.

I was always under the impression on the 319/320/321 the middle seats were supposed to be either 1/2 inch or perhaps an inch wider than the window and aisle seats as compensation for it being a middle seat. And that was the main seat difference in coach between say a 737 and A-320 Family. I am guessing in First the difference might be in the aisle width as most 737 First Class seats (with the exception of AA's) seem wider to me than on the 320 family.

Cheers

LGA777

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: vin2basketball
Posted 2013-09-14 09:55:55 and read 9540 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
Isn't it the same exact seats going in the Airbus fleet?

Last time I checked, it's cheaper to buy one type of seat in bulk for the entire narrowbody cabin than two. It's pretty easy to see why the 738s are getting the new seats.

And the older models will absolutely get the new seats, just not for a while. They'll need new interiors at some point.
Quoting oc2dc (Reply 15):
I completely agree. It would definitely behoove AA to deploy these aircraft from JFK and LAX. Both JFK and LAX have many transcons with high competition. It would be nice to have a product that can actually compete with competitors like B6 and DL.

The Transcons is an especially important one - these a/c can be used on transcons, DFW-South America, basically in more premium markets

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 15):
How did you come up with the number 30? Just curious... I'm pretty sure they have more than 30 737NG's on order so their will definitely be more.

85 to be exact

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-09-14 10:05:11 and read 9421 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):

Well..... IF they are the same exact seats that are going in the Airbus fleet...


I read a feature article someplace recently where the AA representative (or what is the Airbus guy) said the 319s would have wider seats. Seatguru also lists the AA 320s as having wider seats.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: civetfive
Posted 2013-09-14 14:36:39 and read 7205 times.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 6):

The new seats they've put on the 738s and the handful of 752s I personally think are excellent. They are comfortable, have ample personal space, and the tray table is solid (enough for a laptop and a mouse).

The old 752 seats are awful. The old 738 seats (the MD8* seats) aren't great either.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: Robt760
Posted 2013-09-14 14:59:43 and read 6993 times.

Quoting civetfive (Reply 19):
The new seats they've put on the 738s and the handful of 752s I personally think are excellent. They are comfortable, have ample personal space, and the tray table is solid (enough for a laptop and a mouse).

The old 752 seats are awful. The old 738 seats (the MD8* seats) aren't great either.

The seats are a slight improvement, but those that were installed 1.5 years ago have lost alot of their padding and comfort after that short amount of time/usage. Try sleeping in even these new seats in F, and you'll agree.

There are a few negatives about the seats beyond this. They 'sit' higher, and if you're tall, it's a challenge to see out of teh window. If you're at a window seat, and tall, the IFE is difficult to see after the first few rows. Positivies: New AC Power ports, Solid tray tables, Raise-able armrests in F, Under armrest laptop storage, Improved IFE and no more Rainbow Brite Monitor Viewing, and let's not forget, adjustable headrests.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-09-14 14:59:54 and read 6993 times.

Quoting civetfive (Reply 19):
The old 738 seats (the MD8* seats) aren't great either.

Unless we are talking in F. The MD80 F seats are more comfortable than the pitiful 738 sets up front... unfortunately  

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-09-14 16:08:06 and read 6460 times.

Quoting civetfive (Reply 19):
The new seats they've put on the 738s and the handful of 752s I personally think are excellent. They are comfortable, have ample personal space, and the tray table is solid (enough for a laptop and a mouse).

The old 752 seats are awful. The old 738 seats (the MD8* seats) aren't great either.

Yet DL always gets criticism for the same model of seat (the Weber/Zodiac 5751). Why does the criticism have do be isolated to DL's seats?

FYI, the new AA Airbuses have the Recaro CL 3620. I presume this will be the same seat that will go into the AA 738s with AVOD along with the Thales IFE system.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: OB1504
Posted 2013-09-14 18:29:57 and read 6225 times.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 11):
Are you arguing it would be better (for AA, for passengers?) to have zero 737s with video, instead of ~30?

Yes, because it would avoid a lack of consistency, which can be very frustrating to both passengers and agents.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2013-09-14 20:40:19 and read 6064 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):

On a similar topic, I know AA has no plans to retro fit existing 737s with leather and personal TVs why is AA even bothering with the few. I think all said and done AA will have less than 30 737s with leather and personal TVs when its all said and done. (Till the 737 max arrives in 2017). So why bother, to me it would create a inconsistent product and create confusion for customers...

Where are you getting these numbers from?

A simple Google search or look at AA's fleet wiki will tell you there are going to be a lot more 738 delivered over the next 3 years and then there is the MAX order. When all is said and done about 40% of AA's 738/MAX fleet will be delivered with the new interiors.

I also think AA said it plans on some of it's earliest 738s to be leaving the fleet later in the MAX delivery cycle as they will be over 20 years old by then.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: civetfive
Posted 2013-09-14 22:35:43 and read 6084 times.

Quoting Robt760 (Reply 20):
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 21):

I must be the only one here that loves those seats. I'm EP, fly ~50 segments a year, with most of my segments on 738s. I find them very comfortable, and the design seems to give more personal space than the old F seat. The padding situation hasn't bothered me, not like the 763 padding (that whole seat is falling apart, so the padding is the least of my complaints there).

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: uberflieger
Posted 2013-09-15 08:30:32 and read 5709 times.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 24):

'A simple Google search or look at AA's fleet wiki will tell you there are going to be a lot more 738 delivered over the next 3 years and then there is the MAX order. When all is said and done about 40% of AA's 738/MAX fleet will be delivered with the new interiors.'

guys, add 160 Airbuses, subtract B757s & S80s and by 2017 American will offer this fabulous hard product in a majority of short & medium markets

BTW I am not convinced current B738s will not get the new seats & IFE - their promotional video implies they do

any clues as to the configuration? didn't AA recently announce adding more coach seats on the 738s?

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: miaami
Posted 2013-09-15 09:13:22 and read 5724 times.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 26):
didn't AA recently announce adding more coach seats on the 738s?

They did and they still have not said when. I'm curious if they are actually adding seats or just removing the 4 tray tables that they installed over seats 16B/16E and 17B/17E?

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: American 767
Posted 2013-09-15 09:40:43 and read 5670 times.

Quoting civetfive (Reply 19):
The old 752 seats are awful.

They are not awful.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 24):
I also think AA said it plans on some of it's earliest 738s to be leaving the fleet later in the MAX delivery cycle as they will be over 20 years old by then.

That's right. They will soon be leaving the fleet, not long after the last MD-80s leave. There are 76 airplanes in that batch, that were delivered in the late 90s/early 2000s (77, minus one that was written off in Haiti). Everyone says the 737 fleet at AA is growing, but keep in mind that at some point it'll get smaller. Expect the 738 phase out to start soon.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 26):
subtract B757s & S80s and by 2017 American will offer this fabulous hard product in a majority of short & medium markets

And subtract also the first 76 800s that I mention above. I think that in 2017 American will still have a few MD-80s and a few 757s left.

Ben Soriano

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: oc2dc
Posted 2013-09-15 10:16:49 and read 5608 times.

Quoting miaami (Reply 27):
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 26):
didn't AA recently announce adding more coach seats on the 738s?

They did and they still have not said when. I'm curious if they are actually adding seats or just removing the 4 tray tables that they installed over seats 16B/16E and 17B/17E?

AA recently added Main Cabin Extra to almost all of its 738's. For whatever reason, they added a ridiculous amount of MCE seats. The current configuration is 16F, 56Y+ and 78Y. AA realized they put too many MCE seats in, and now they want to reduce the amount of MCE they offer which of course means adding seats. But is it really adding seats? As far as I'm concerned, it will just be going back to a the old configuration...

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: JoePatroni707
Posted 2013-09-15 12:33:55 and read 5401 times.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 24):
Where are you getting these numbers from?

A simple Google search or look at AA's fleet wiki will tell you there are going to be a lot more 738 delivered over the next 3 years and then there is the MAX order. When all is said and done about 40% of AA's 738/MAX fleet will be delivered with the new interiors.

A video on Jetnet a few weeks ago highlighting the delivery of a new 737-800. In the video they specifically stated that only 31 deliveries of the 737 remain.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-09-15 12:41:31 and read 5376 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 30):
A video on Jetnet a few weeks ago highlighting the delivery of a new 737-800. In the video they specifically stated that only 31 deliveries of the 737 remain.

Well regardless of what may have been said on JetNet, there are far more than 31 737s left in backlog for Boeing to deliver to AA. By Boeing's count through August, AA still had 187 737-800s and 737-8 MAXs left to be delivered over the coming years. AA will have nearly 200 737s with the new interior.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2013-09-15 22:29:47 and read 4949 times.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 29):
But is it really adding seats? As far as I'm concerned, it will just be going back to a the old configuration...

If the MD-80 is any indication, they're just going back to their old configuration. AA has already started removing one row of MCE on the -80, adding five more seats, bringing the capacity back to 16F/124Y. If they do the same on the 738, we'll see the addition of 10 seats, as they add one row back, and remove the tray table from the other four seats, bringing the capacity back to 16F/144Y.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 30):
A video on Jetnet a few weeks ago highlighting the delivery of a new 737-800. In the video they specifically stated that only 31 deliveries of the 737 remain.

That was in reference to the 738 deliveries scheduled for 2013. There are many more years of 738/MAX deliveries to come.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2013-09-16 19:05:52 and read 4476 times.

AA plans to remove the center line tray from some rows on the 738 Y cabin has been postponed, no additional seats to be "added" for at least 9-12mos.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-09-16 21:34:21 and read 4248 times.

quote=Mah4546,reply=6] Hopefully the F seats are an improvement over the inexcusable excuse for F seats on the 738/752.[/quote]

The orginal 738 seat wasn't bad. It's the seats that were installed on 738s that arrived on 2009 and later that are the problem, specifically the headrest. It's fine, if the seat is reclined. But it juts too far forward, when the seatback is upright, especially if you are trying to watch the movie on the monitor. If the headrest could be tilted, that would solve the problem.

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 10):
Not so sure if AA will not convert current 738's, definitely not to BSI but ultimately they would get new seats, new interiors but not necessarily non-BSI will be converted to BSI. Don't see why they would not get the new seats, IFE, etc.

My understanding is that Boeing doesn't sell any kind of kit for installing the BSI on aircraft that were delivered without the BSI. But, AA is supposedly finishing refurbishing of the cabins of 738s that were delivered between 1999 and 2002, so that they are identical to the pre-BSI 738s that started arriving in 2009.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: FoxBravo
Posted 2013-09-17 06:01:14 and read 3940 times.

Quoting Yakflyer (Reply 13):
Airbus 320s & 319s do have a wider cross section than the 737. Some airlines take advantage of the wider cross section to give passengers a little more hip room and others do not.

On DL the aisles are wider on the Airbuses. I can't tell you the exact difference, but it's enough that I was able to roll a wheeled car seat down the aisle of the Airbuses but not the 737s. On 737s I always had to lift it up and carry it awkwardly, together with whatever (or whoever) else I was carrying. Thankfully those days are over for me though!

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: OB1504
Posted 2013-09-17 10:37:39 and read 3695 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 34):
My understanding is that Boeing doesn't sell any kind of kit for installing the BSI on aircraft that were delivered without the BSI.

I've read the same, but that there is an independent company offering a look-alike installation.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: RyDawg82
Posted 2013-09-18 09:18:12 and read 3211 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 36):
I've read the same, but that there is an independent company offering a look-alike installation.

That would be Project Amber by HeathTecna.
http://www.heath.com/Files/Marketing...teral/ht_project_amber_071012.aspx

Ryan

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-09-18 10:32:23 and read 3068 times.

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 37):
That would be Project Amber by HeathTecna.
http://www.heath.com/Files/Marketing....aspx


I see they offer the installation for the 757 as well. It would be nice to see AA refresh its 75L planes.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-09-18 10:51:17 and read 3004 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 38):

I see they offer the installation for the 757 as well. It would be nice to see AA refresh its 75L planes.

Actually, Project Amber is now known as the ISIS 737 Interior, and apparently Zodiac Airline Cabin Interiors (formerly Heath Tecna) has stopped seeking its certification for the 757, as the brochure only lists it for the 73G, 738, and 739:
http://www.heath.com/Files/Marketing...ci_isis_737_interior_040413_L.aspx

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-09-18 11:07:34 and read 2947 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 39):
Actually, Project Amber is now known as the ISIS 737 Interior, and apparently Zodiac Airline Cabin Interiors (formerly Heath Tecna) has stopped seeking its certification for the 757, as the brochure only lists it for the 73G, 738, and 739:

Thats too bad. I would argue the the 757 interior needs the update more than the 738s.

Topic: RE: New AA 737 Sub-fleet 73A
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-09-18 11:14:53 and read 2925 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 40):
Thats too bad. I would argue the the 757 interior needs the update more than the 738s.

I agree, but there are far more prospective ISIS customers for the 737NG worldwide than there are for the 757 which is mostly just the U.S. legacy carriers (which many will soon be phasing out large portions of their fleets). Zodiac must have felt that the extra costs for getting the ISIS interior certified for the 757 wasn't worth it due to the limited market.

[Edited 2013-09-18 11:17:52]


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