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Topic: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-09-18 10:53:14 and read 11467 times.

A few years back, I posted a request for info about a rather serious (and rather unpleasant for those on board) incident involving an Interflug A310, en route from SXF to SVO. The A310, then quite new with Interflug (they didn't operate them for long) aborted its takeoff. It then went into a rather scary unintended aerobatic sequence, which saw the aircraft stall several times and basically fly well outside its envelope.

Anyway, I came across this video on Youtube and I'm wondering how accurate it is; I've never seen a report about it and I have to say that the reported words of the crew are somewhat dubious ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJViilcDTyw

Has anyone uncovered anything else about this incident?

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: golfradio
Posted 2013-09-18 11:09:00 and read 11301 times.

Holy ****. If, and a big if, it is true I can't believe they got of that stall. So close to the ground.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-18 11:52:38 and read 10909 times.

Unbelievable! If that simulation is anything close to what actually occurred, then it is nothing short of a miracle that it did not end in disaster! And an amazing testament to how well built the A310 was!

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: conaly
Posted 2013-09-18 12:15:19 and read 10677 times.

Holy?! Looks extremely scary.

Btw: this simulation has quite some similarities with the crash of an Aeroflot A310, where a pilot let his little boy play with the yoke and activated a different autopilot mode, which lead the aircraft into similar flight patterns:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593

[Edited 2013-09-18 12:16:04]

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: tu204
Posted 2013-09-18 12:17:45 and read 10661 times.

I would love to see an official report on that incident. Including a CVR transcript.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: golfradio
Posted 2013-09-18 17:06:09 and read 10027 times.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 6):
Including a CVR transcript.

The description states that some claim the only words in the cockpit were "Schei├če kapitalistischen Technik".
Though highly unlikely, it is freaking hilarious.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: kaneporta1
Posted 2013-09-18 17:59:02 and read 9863 times.

TAROM had a similar experience at Paris which was partially caught on video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlMdMTy8JLg

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: Independence76
Posted 2013-09-18 18:49:42 and read 9697 times.

I remember hearing about this on a program about AA587 way back when.

This is an absolutely incredible incident with little to no attention from aviation safety enthusiasts. One can only imagine what was going through the minds of the passengers, let alone the cockpit crew.

Thanks for sharing.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-09-18 21:03:16 and read 9477 times.

Maybe the flight crew became distracted by the choir belting out that dirge in the economy section.

I'd love to know more about this incident. I don't recall reading about this before - what must the passengers have thought?

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-09-18 21:25:33 and read 9432 times.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 8):
Maybe the flight crew became distracted by the choir belting out that dirge in the economy section.

The report for this is probably buried deep inside the Russian transport ministry and I doubt if we'll ever get to see it.

My assumption, rightly or wrongly, is that the crew, being new to the A310 - their first glass cockpit acft, having come from Tu-154s or IL62s, were simply not used to the A310's technology; my recollection is that one of them initiated a go around, which was thought to be too steep and attempted to override it (a contributory factor in at least one of the CAL A300-600 crashes a few years later); a Tu-154/IL62 would have have a pretty low angle go around, so the normal A310 G/A - probably around 15 degrees - startled them; God only knows what they thought when the aircraft was near vertical. Can't believe for a moment there was nothing on the CVR, unless they erased it?!

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: s5daw
Posted 2013-09-19 01:00:56 and read 8867 times.

I highly doubt an airliner can trip over at 3k feet and save the day. It was probably more similar to the TAROM incident, which is quite scary anyway.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: bennett123
Posted 2013-09-19 01:49:42 and read 8316 times.

There is a report on www.aviation-safety.net.

www.aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147079

It looks pretty scary.

The aircraft was D-AOAC now 10 23 of the German Air Force.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: siren
Posted 2013-09-19 01:54:27 and read 8236 times.

If anyone speaks Romanian, there's another version of the Tarom video with a similar 'simulation' to the Interflug video, and containing the cockpit CVR recording from the incident flight..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqmrRFeYzBI

And an accident report and summary on the Tarom flight:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19940924-1

[Edited 2013-09-19 01:57:49]

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2013-09-19 03:46:32 and read 7077 times.

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
I'm wondering how accurate it is

I have to confess that I'm wondering the same. It doesn't look particularly professional, and there is no indication of the author's credentials.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: cedarjet
Posted 2013-09-19 04:04:19 and read 6858 times.

Quoting conaly (Reply 3):
Btw: this simulation has quite some similarities with the crash of an Aeroflot A310, where a pilot let his little boy play with the yoke and activated a different autopilot mode, which lead the aircraft into similar flight patterns

No, it doesn't at all. The Aeroflot aircraft was in a high G spiral dive the whole time, the Interflug A310 had a horizontal stabiliser that was in full nose-up trim. The only similarity is both aircraft were A310s flown by communists.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2013-09-19 04:28:58 and read 6597 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 14):
The only similarity is both aircraft were A310s flown by communists.

No, that's not actually the case. Check the dates.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-09-19 04:31:54 and read 6568 times.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
The only similarity is both aircraft were A310s flown by communists.

No, that's not actually the case. Check the dates.

I doubt if the dates had anything to do with it; very few in the Eastern bloc were actually communists! They might have tugged the forelock and talked the talk, but that was it!

Anyway, politics aside, I think everyone on board must have thought their number was up.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2013-09-19 04:36:34 and read 6484 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 16):
Anyway, politics aside, I think everyone on board must have thought their number was up.

Sure. If it happened anything like the way shown then I'd be surprised if they ever set foot on a plane again!

Quoting kaitak (Reply 16):

I doubt if the dates had anything to do with it; very few in the Eastern bloc were actually communists! They might have tugged the forelock and talked the talk, but that was it!

The point is that in 1992 Russia wasn't even communist in name.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: frunzaverde
Posted 2013-09-19 04:45:55 and read 6377 times.

Quoting siren (Reply 12):
If anyone speaks Romanian, there's another version of the Tarom video with a similar 'simulation' to the Interflug video, and containing the cockpit CVR recording from the incident flight..

This is a quick translation of the TAROM CVR recording (only the pilot(s) - though it seems like it's a single voice on the radio, not the tower):

0:11 RO: Wait a second... what the hell got into it? [the plane]...
0:20 RO: [Indecipherable, possibly "Pune in" - if so, it's generally used in cars, to indicate you're shifting gears; how it would relate to an aeronautical environment, I don't know]speed, here
0:23 RO: Dude, it (most likely referring to the plane) will fail (highly informal language)...
0:32 RO: Dude! Dude! (informal, again)
0:40 RO: Romanian expletive translatable as "what the..."
0:44 EN: Mayday!
0:54 EN: I've lost co...
1:08 RO: Ouch!
1:18 RO, Flight Attendant, really calm and formal voice: Ladies and gentlemen, we kindly ask you to stay calm and keep your seat belts fastened. Thank you!
(Repeated in English).

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: siren
Posted 2013-09-19 05:17:16 and read 5964 times.

Quoting frunzaverde (Reply 18):
This is a quick translation of the TAROM CVR recording

  Thank you!!

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: breiz
Posted 2013-09-19 05:56:44 and read 5500 times.

Are we sure that it was not a planned acrobatic display over SVO?  
Just imagine if such a choregraphy was executed over one of the now-a-days congested airports!
They were lucky.

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: richierich
Posted 2013-09-19 07:09:47 and read 4651 times.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 7):

This is an absolutely incredible incident with little to no attention from aviation safety enthusiasts. One can only imagine what was going through the minds of the passengers, let alone the cockpit crew.

It's amazing this plane did not break apart...how could an airliner survive those aerbatics yet all the pilot of AA587 did was push back and forth on the rudder pedals and almost 300 lives were lost! If that video is close to accurate, it must have been one hell of a scary flight.
In today's world, I think such a flight would be all over social media and the press. How far we have come in over 20 years...

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: conaly
Posted 2013-09-19 07:24:22 and read 4436 times.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
No, it doesn't at all. The Aeroflot aircraft was in a high G spiral dive the whole time, the Interflug A310 had a horizontal stabiliser that was in full nose-up trim.


The Aeroflot Airbus did go into a dive, but AFTER a nearly vertical climb:

Quote:

After the plane banked to 90 degrees, the remaining functions of the autopilot tried to correct its plummeting altitude by putting the plane in an almost vertical ascent, nearly stalling the plane. The co-pilot and Eldar managed to get the plane into a nosedive...

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: clickhappy
Posted 2013-09-19 08:05:27 and read 3890 times.

Looks more like a Flanker display at MAKS   

Topic: RE: Interflug A310 Incident Moscow
Username: tu204
Posted 2013-09-19 11:39:44 and read 1731 times.

Quoting richierich (Reply 21):

Good point. Answer is that in the Interflug situation you have:
A violent Pitch Down maneuver at a low speed (at the top of your "roller coaster" - you're stalled at a very low speed - 35kts or something very slow) therefore you don't have much negative G's working against your wings.
Then you go into a steep dive (going downhill now), pick up speed (let's say 250kts for argument sake) and at the bottom of your little roller coaster you make a violent pitch up maneuver. Now you've got the speed and the sudden pitch up movement - so you have some serious G's. But this maneuver the plane is designed for.
During certification you MUST demonstrate that wings won't fall off at up to +3,8G's. The Negative G requirement I am not sure about, but is not that much - less that -1G I think.

In AA587's case you were probably close to 250kts and giving full Yaw deflections. Hard Yaw forces are not something an aircraft normally encounters in its flight routine, therefore it isn't designed for it. Same with Hard Pitch Down forces; however Hard Pitch Up movements ARE encountered when you want to avoid making a crater in the ground, so it is designed to handle it.

So in one situation you have a plane out of control, but doing what the designers expected it to do and in the other you do not. If you push full forward on the control column in cruise flight, you break things. I for pull full back - you might, but prolly won't.


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