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Topic: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: stapleton
Posted 2013-09-18 11:42:25 and read 9327 times.

Delta's schedules for summer 2014 into Montana include the following expansion compared to summer 2013:
Billings - Atlanta - New Saturday non-stop to Atlanta
Bozeman - Atlanta - Non-stop service expanded from three times weekly to daily
Bozeman - Los Angeles - Non-stop service expanded from once weekly to twice weekly
Kalispell - Minneapolis - Twice daily non-stop expanded to three daily
Great Falls - Minneapolis - Twice daily non-stop expanded to three daily
Missoula - Atlanta - Once weekly non-stop expanded to twice weekly
Missoula - Minneapolis - Twice daily non-stop expanded to three daily

With this expansion, Delta will operate twelve non-stops per week from Atlanta to Montana (BZN - 7, MSO - 2, FCA - 2, BIL -1)

Also, interestingly, at the Montana Economic Summit, Delta officials stated they were considering non-stop service between Bozeman and New York JFK. http://www.kbzk.com/news/delta-air-l...ozeman-nonstop-flight-next-summer/

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: MesaFlyGuy
Posted 2013-09-18 11:49:33 and read 9283 times.

Quoting stapleton (Thread starter):
Also, interestingly, at the Montana Economic Summit, Delta officials stated they were considering non-stop service between Bozeman and New York JFK.

That would be interesting. What is the market like between BZN and NYC? I assume it would be a Sat-only seasonal flight, probably with an a319 or a320 but a 738 wouldn't be completely unbelievable given the constant plethera of them that DL has in and out of JFK every day. They would probably just utilizing an aircraft on Saturdays that would otherwise sit all day, such as they did with JFK-SXM. Although any additional service from DL at JFK is greatly welcomed!!    

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: osubuckeyes
Posted 2013-09-18 12:27:19 and read 8976 times.

What do they typically operate from ATL-Montana? Seems like it would be a long thin route with large RJs.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-09-18 12:31:02 and read 8947 times.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 2):
What do they typically operate from ATL-Montana? Seems like it would be a long thin route with large RJs.

I believe 737-800s actually.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: jetskipper
Posted 2013-09-18 12:32:13 and read 8924 times.

UA flew BZN-EWR this summer on an A320.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: stapleton
Posted 2013-09-18 12:48:41 and read 8800 times.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 2):
What do they typically operate from ATL-Montana? Seems like it would be a long thin route with large RJs.

Right now, they are showing for BZN a combination of 757s and 737-800s for next summer. MSO and FCA are A320s and BIL is on a A319.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: Alsatian
Posted 2013-09-18 13:14:25 and read 8622 times.

It seems that SLC service will also beeing increased from Billings and Bozeman :

Current schedules :

DL 4521 BIL 0627 - 0750 SLC CRJ D
DL 4445 BIL 1145 - 1308 SLC CR7 D
DL 4669 BIL 1300 - 1424 SLC CRJ D
DL 4498 BIL 1745 - 1907 SLC CRJ Dx6

S14 :

DL 4704 BIL 0630 - 0751 SLC CR7 D
DL 4663 BIL 0855 - 1016 SLC CR9 D
DL 4445 BIL 1145 - 1309 SLC CR7 Dx6
DL 4669 BIL 1305 - 1429 SLC CR7 D
DL 4498 BIL 1750 - 1909 SLC CRJ D
DL 4676 BIL 1855 - 2019 SLC CRJ Dx6

Current schedules :

DL 4369 BZN 0628 - 0742 SLC CR7 D
DL 4439 BZN 0745 - 0902 SLC CRJ D
DL 4507 BZN 1140 - 1250 SLC CRJ D
DL 4781 BZN 1500 - 1617 SLC CRJ Dx6
DL 4649 BZN 1730 - 1845 SLC CRJ Dx6

S14 :

DL 4369 BZN 0625 - 0735 SLC CR9 D
DL 4484 BZN 0745 - 0904 SLC CR9 D
DL 4483 BZN 0900 - 1015 SLC CRJ D
DL 4507 BZN 1140 - 1258 SLC CRJ D
DL 4493 BZN 1310 - 1428 SLC CR9 D
DL 4649 BZN 1725 - 1839 SLC CRJ Dx6

What can explain such a big DL increase in MT next year ?

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: VC10DC10
Posted 2013-09-18 14:00:47 and read 8369 times.

Will GEG also see added service next summer?

GEG obviously isn't in Montana, but it is sort of part of the "northern Rocky Mountain" area along with MT.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: osubuckeyes
Posted 2013-09-18 14:04:31 and read 8342 times.

Quoting stapleton (Reply 5):
Right now, they are showing for BZN a combination of 757s and 737-800s for next summer. MSO and FCA are A320s and BIL is on a A319.

Are the facilities up there big enough to handle the capacity of a 757? Forgive me if I sound ignorant I have never been up to Montana.

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 6):
What can explain such a big DL increase in MT next year ?

Growing population with little to no LCC service so my guess is DL is trying to get a foot hold to be able to command premiums. Also, I believe there is a ton of natural resources and energy industry there so there is a demand for that travel. Seems like it is very under served if DL is pursuing it this agressively.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: MesaFlyGuy
Posted 2013-09-18 14:19:00 and read 8257 times.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 8):

Are the facilities up there big enough to handle the capacity of a 757? Forgive me if I sound ignorant I have never been up to Montana.

They've been running ATL-BZN 3x a week with 738 twice a week and a 757 once a week for a while now so I'd assume that it is able to handle it.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: MountainFlyer
Posted 2013-09-18 14:39:45 and read 8129 times.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 8):
Are the facilities up there big enough to handle the capacity of a 757? Forgive me if I sound ignorant I have never been up to Montana.

Yeah. They mostly just have to make sure to carry enough fuel to get back out, and they have special tow bars for a team of draft horses to push back the planes.

Lol, okay, sorry, not to make fun of you, but I just had to jest a little. I grew up in Montana, and you wouldn't believe some of the things that people from more urban parts of the country would ask us in all seriousness. In the mid 90's I was honestly asked if we had electricity and running water.

All kidding aside though, BZN completed some major terminal renovations in the last few years. They are quite up to date, if not a little smaller than the major airports.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 8):
Growing population with little to no LCC service so my guess is DL is trying to get a foot hold to be able to command premiums. Also, I believe there is a ton of natural resources and energy industry there so there is a demand for that travel. Seems like it is very under served if DL is pursuing it this agressively.

I can't say for sure what the major increase in MT is, but it's not entirely new. It's been increasing for most of the last decade.

I don't believe it has a lot to do with the energy industry. The vast majority of the population of Montana, as well as all of the non-EAS airports, are at least 250-300 miles west of the major oil activity. I could be wrong, though.

My personal thought (I have no data) is that it has more to do with increased tourism. BZN has seen the most growth, and despite being less than half the size of BIL by population, is now the busiest airport in the state. Both BZN and FCA are gateways to major ski areas and national parks (Yellowstone and Glacier, respectively).

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: rampart
Posted 2013-09-18 14:45:21 and read 8079 times.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 8):
Are the facilities up there big enough to handle the capacity of a 757? Forgive me if I sound ignorant I have never been up to Montana.

Those facilities were big enough to handle daily NW DC-10s not that long ago. Well, not that long ago for me.
http://www.departedflights.com/BIL79intro.html

Bozeman, Missoula, and Kalispell had 737 and 727 service since the 70s at least, WA and FL.

-Rampart

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: milesrich
Posted 2013-09-18 14:48:21 and read 8062 times.

Let us not forget that Northwest and Western served these Montana cities with mainline jets for many, many years. And Montana is a heck of a lot bigger than it was in 1970, and has a lot more tourism.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-09-18 15:08:50 and read 7940 times.

I flew a DL 72S into BZM from SLC in the early 90s.

Direct flight to JFK on Saturdays with a 319 would be great.

Gateway to Yellowstone...it should work just on tourist dollars

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-09-18 15:19:07 and read 7863 times.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 12):
Let us not forget that Northwest and Western served these Montana cities with mainline jets for many, many years. And Montana is a heck of a lot bigger than it was in 1970, and has a lot more tourism.

I saw an NW A319 in BZN about five years ago. The flew A319s to several of the Montana cities from MSP. I think they did a few to DTW at times also.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2013-09-18 15:50:53 and read 7745 times.

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 4):
UA flew BZN-EWR this summer on an A320.

An uncrowded north entrance to Yellowstone in the summer. Cheap skiing in the winter.

Some think it would work all year.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-09-18 16:05:30 and read 7642 times.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 15):
Quoting jetskipper (Reply 4):
UA flew BZN-EWR this summer on an A320.

An uncrowded north entrance to Yellowstone in the summer. Cheap skiing in the winter.

Some think it would work all year.

  

Yep, I flew QX to BZN a few years ago for exactly the same reason. Very cool area and a lot to do there. Same with FCA.

Same is true for FLG, YLW, FAT and others.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: globalflyer
Posted 2013-09-18 16:41:25 and read 7473 times.

Wonder why they do not try anything out of the state capital, HLN? Usually only 3 RJs a day to SLC and 1 to MSP and usually full too. Is it just not a large enough market?

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: WESTERN737800
Posted 2013-09-18 16:42:03 and read 7464 times.

All the major airports in MT i.e. BIL, BZN, BTM, HLN, MSO, GTF, and FCA have all at one time or another seen regular service from WA then DL on 737s and 727s...miss the good ole days!

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-09-18 17:44:35 and read 7229 times.

Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 18):
All the major airports in MT i.e. BIL, BZN, BTM, HLN, MSO, GTF, and FCA have all at one time or another seen regular service from WA then DL on 737s and 727s...miss the good ole days!

Don't forget that WA also flew 737s to West Yellowstone.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: rampart
Posted 2013-09-18 17:48:17 and read 7205 times.

Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 18):
All the major airports in MT i.e. BIL, BZN, BTM, HLN, MSO, GTF, and FCA have all at one time or another seen regular service from WA then DL on 737s and 727s...miss the good ole days!

Would you happen to know what WA used prior to the 737s and 727s? Did they ever use a 720 or 707 on those stops, or were they strictly Electras, DC-6s or Convairs until they became all-jet?

-Rampart

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: redzeppelin
Posted 2013-09-18 18:15:23 and read 7028 times.

As I write this, I am sitting at MSP awaiting my flight home to BZN. It is exciting to see the growth there. As a local resident I can only hope that the increased capacity will push fares down, but I'm not holding my breath. For the record, DL has three gates at BZN, and I believe that all three are capable of handling mainline jets. At least once I have been on a DL flight that parked and deplaned at F9's gate when the others were full, but I think that was before the jet bridge had been installed at the new gate 4(?).This schedule shouldn't really stretch their capacity there. DL currently has 3 RONs at BZN most nights - two from SLC and one from MSP. There's not a lot of extra ramp space to park any more RONs, but mid-day turns to ATL, LAX, or even JFK are no problem. Of course, the airport is expanding the ramp area northwest of the terminal right now, so even that might be a problem for long.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: Boston
Posted 2013-09-18 20:00:50 and read 5928 times.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 8):
Are the facilities up there big enough to handle the capacity of a 757? Forgive me if I sound ignorant I have never been up to Montana.

BIL can easily handle a 757. UA flew them into BIL around the 4th of July 2013 to increase capacity due to a runway closure during the weekends which didn't allow commercial operations for about 6 weeks. BIL also has handled 757s that diverted there for emergencies.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: zrs70
Posted 2013-09-18 21:09:09 and read 5391 times.

I used to fly from CVG to Great Falls via SLC monthly in 1996. The SLC-GTF was on a 727-200 with a stop in Helena. Loved that quick hop from Helena to Great Falls!

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: zrs70
Posted 2013-09-18 21:11:52 and read 5375 times.

NW used to also have DC10 milk runs between MSP and SEA via a few Montana airports.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: FlyingGoat
Posted 2013-09-18 21:23:02 and read 5409 times.

Great news! Montana is a fantastic state, and I'm thinking about moving to the Kalispel area. Flights to ATL wll be a nice option.

Several years ago, I flew on a A319 from MSP to BIL. I've also flown a CRJ into BTM from SLC. BTM is one small airport! Love that area though.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: ozark1
Posted 2013-09-18 21:23:16 and read 5442 times.

The greatest day in a kids life, flying from ELP to BTM. Summer 1968
Frontier CV-580. El Paso-Alamogordo-Albuquerque-Farmington-Grand Junction-Salt Lake City connecting to:
Western Electra. Salt Lake City-Pocatello-Idaho Falls-West Yellowstone-Butte.
Mixed emotions about increased service to what I think is the most beautiful state in the U.S. It's beautiful because it's so unpopulated! Hopefully it will retain its sense of wonderful isolation after it's discovered!
I knew I should have gone to work for DL!  

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: rampart
Posted 2013-09-18 21:31:37 and read 5412 times.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 24):
NW used to also have DC10 milk runs between MSP and SEA via a few Montana airports.

yes...

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
Those facilities were big enough to handle daily NW DC-10s not that long ago. Well, not that long ago for me.
http://www.departedflights.com/BIL79....html

Rampart

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-09-18 21:36:00 and read 5380 times.

Little LCC presence would be my guess? There are so few areas with limited LCC presence left I guess Delta is really trying to cash in. There is tons of time for Delta to trim for S14.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: AS739BSI
Posted 2013-09-18 22:37:12 and read 5003 times.

With Big Sky Resort and Moonlight Basin merging, I think BZN will become a bigger ski destination. There are currently more flights in winter and spring then in the last 3 years of being in the area. Bozeman continues to grow in leaps and bounds. Montana State University now hosts 15,000 students. BZN as a matter of fact now has more pax than BIL.

I'm surprised they'll be able to support 1x daily to ATL though from BZN.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: UA772IAD
Posted 2013-09-18 22:41:04 and read 4993 times.

Quoting Boston (Reply 22):
BIL can easily handle a 757. UA flew them into BIL around the 4th of July 2013 to increase capacity due to a runway closure during the weekends which didn't allow commercial operations for about 6 weeks. BIL also has handled 757s that diverted there for emergencies.

I was just in BIL last night. There was a 5X A300 parked at the cargo ramp. The main runway 10L-28R is 10,500 feet in length. The terminal aprons could handle a 757 as well.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 28):

Little LCC presence would be my guess? There are so few areas with limited LCC presence left I guess Delta is really trying to cash in. There is tons of time for Delta to trim for S14.

G4 serves Billings, Bozeman, Great Falls, Kalispel and Missoula from LAS. Billings and Missoula seasonally from LAX and Kalispel and Missoula seasonally from SFO.

UA/UAX also serves Montana quite efficiently mainly from DEN. I think DL is just trying to defend its established place in the market.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-09-18 23:32:11 and read 4792 times.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 10):

I feel your pain...living in Hawaii, we get similar "dumb" questions like that too...and worse!

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2013-09-19 07:27:54 and read 3286 times.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 17):
Wonder why they do not try anything out of the state capital, HLN?

Why no love for BTM, either?

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: MountainFlyer
Posted 2013-09-19 07:38:20 and read 3209 times.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 17):
Wonder why they do not try anything out of the state capital, HLN? Usually only 3 RJs a day to SLC and 1 to MSP and usually full too. Is it just not a large enough market?

Correct; it's not large enough. HLN is in the smallest market of the six non-EAS commercial airports in Montana. It is also the only one of the non-EAS airports in Montana that is not growing currently.

In terms of enplanements, per the FAA's preliminary 2012 report, the non-EAS Montana airports:

(2012 Enplanements; 2011 Enplanements; %chg YOY)

BIL: 440,275; 407,375; 8.08%
BZN: 434,038; 397,870; 9.09%
MSO: 303,886; 292,501; 3.89%
FCA: 192,437; 179,064; 7.47%
GTF: 186,776; 168,158; 11.07%
HLN: 95,374; 100;695; -5.28%

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 32):

Why no love for BTM, either?

BTM: 20,895; 24,806; -15.77%

I will digress for a moment and say that BTM, while the largest of the EAS airports in Montana, is probably a perfect example of a place that doesn't need subsidized service given that it is 78 freeway miles from BZN and 69 freeway miles from HLN (both about an hour or just over).

[Edited 2013-09-19 07:45:00]

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-09-19 07:38:36 and read 3231 times.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 12):
Let us not forget that Northwest and Western served these Montana cities with mainline jets for many, many years. And Montana is a heck of a lot bigger than it was in 1970, and has a lot more tourism.

God, do I ever remember getting the phone call from crew scheduling saying "You're on it." You didn't even have to ask what. Flights 105 and 106--with about 8 stops each way between MSP and SEA. We detested it. But the passengers were really great--actually excited about being on an airplane which made it fun for us. And in those days we actually fed people--breakfast was a killer white cheese omelet and dinner some of the best lasagna in the world.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: pdxlvr
Posted 2013-09-19 07:49:50 and read 3137 times.

Great to see growth here in Montana. We're still missing AA and US though, I wonder if the combined company will finally fill its Montana-sized hole? Assuming the merger happens.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: MountainFlyer
Posted 2013-09-19 08:00:05 and read 3068 times.

Quoting pdxlvr (Reply 35):
Great to see growth here in Montana. We're still missing AA and US though, I wonder if the combined company will finally fill its Montana-sized hole? Assuming the merger happens.

Prior to its merger with US, HP had service to PHX from BIL.

UA and DL (and also NW prior to the merger) have long had a stronghold on the north-central region of the U.S. through their hubs in MSP, DEN, and SLC. To a lesser extent, AS/QX have served western MT from SEA and PDX for a long time.

Even without a merger, I would think an AA flight from ORD or DFW would work to either BIL or BZN, and probably maybe a US flight to PHX. Although, I would fully expect UA and especially DL to open the floodgates to defend this valuable turf if either US or AA (or the combined company) tried to move in.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: mcg
Posted 2013-09-19 08:27:25 and read 2900 times.

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 8):
Are the facilities up there big enough to handle the capacity of a 757? Forgive me if I sound ignorant I have never been up to Montana.

Those facilities were big enough to handle daily NW DC-10s not that long ago. Well, not that long ago for me.
http://www.departedflights.com/BIL79intro.html

Bozeman, Missoula, and Kalispell had 737 and 727 service since the 70s at least, WA and FL.

In the 70's NW operated BIL-ORD with a DC-10. NW also operated many "puddle jumper" sort of flights with 727's. An example would be SEA-GEG-MSO-GTF-BIL-BIS-MSP.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: mcg
Posted 2013-09-19 08:31:53 and read 2868 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 34):
God, do I ever remember getting the phone call from crew scheduling saying "You're on it." You didn't even have to ask what. Flights 105 and 106--with about 8 stops each way between MSP and SEA. We detested it. But the passengers were really great--actually excited about being on an airplane which made it fun for us. And in those days we actually fed people--breakfast was a killer white cheese omelet and dinner some of the best lasagna in the world.

I remember taking one of those flights. Picking it up in MSO, then GTF, BIL, BIS arrived MSP around midnight. Then connected to a 747 for the flight to ORD. It was different then!

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2013-09-19 08:47:11 and read 2769 times.

Quoting mcg (Reply 38):
I remember taking one of those flights. Picking it up in MSO, then GTF, BIL, BIS arrived MSP around midnight. Then connected to a 747 for the flight to ORD. It was different then!

That is correct. The 747 went MSP-ORD-DTW-JFK a real "red eye."

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: THEFLLFLYER
Posted 2013-09-19 11:05:55 and read 2105 times.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 30):

I think it is actually OAK.

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: milesrich
Posted 2013-09-19 11:55:05 and read 1897 times.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 24):
NW used to also have DC10 milk runs between MSP and SEA via a few Montana airports.

I don't believe there was every a milk run with the DC-10. BIL had DC-10 nonstop service from ORD for a while and maybe from MSP. Those flights did go on to GEG, PDX, or SEA,

Topic: RE: Delta Expanding In Montana
Username: stapleton
Posted 2013-09-19 13:17:13 and read 1775 times.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 41):
Quoting zrs70 (Reply 24):NW used to also have DC10 milk runs between MSP and SEA via a few Montana airports.
I don't believe there was every a milk run with the DC-10. BIL had DC-10 nonstop service from ORD for a while and maybe from MSP. Those flights did go on to GEG, PDX, or SEA,

NW operated the DC-10 mainly on the SEA - GEG - GTF - BIL - ORD r/t route although there were a few variations. There were times when this would do a special stop in other Montana cities when other flights cancelled. On at least one occasion, the DC-10 stopped in BZN between GTF and BIL to pick up passengers off a cancelled flight.

It is also interesting that during one of the NW strikes, NW operated a 747 on a SEA - GEG - BIL - MSP route. This was to partially make-up for all the 727/DC-10 flights through Montana that were cancelled during the strike.


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