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Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-17 03:08:22 and read 60765 times.

Interested to know how the 787 has been performing lately. Not much news or discussion other than problems Norwegian seems to be having on a recurring basis with them, being discussed in another thread. Have delays and cancellations at other airlines come down to acceptable levels yet? Appreciate any info.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-09-17 04:44:50 and read 60588 times.

According to this, so far, 84 aircraft delivered, 35,000 flights, 7M. passengers flown, 50M. miles covered............

http://flighttracker.newairplane.com/

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-09-17 06:39:16 and read 60058 times.

According to ANA's post modification website, overall pretty well. In last week over 400 flights only 1 was cancelled and 1 was delayed. With that being said, they seem to be having quite of bit of issues with the electrical system.

https://secure.ana-g.com/anacom/cgi-bin/787/pdf/service_e.pdf

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: glbltrvlr
Posted 2013-09-17 07:54:23 and read 59685 times.

I'm scheduled on the United 787 from LAX to Shanghai later this week. Looking forward to it.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: hkcanadaexpat
Posted 2013-09-17 08:06:42 and read 59565 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 2):
In last week over 400 flights only 1 was cancelled and 1 was delayed.

ANA's stats should be taken with a grain of salt. They keep 5 spare 787s (2 domestic + 3 international) at all times. Helps keep the schedule look like its working like clockwork. That being said, its an expensive proposition for any airline to keep that many frames on standby at all times...

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 3):
United 787 from LAX to Shanghai later this week.

I hope you don't have a domestic connection in PVG or dinner plans that night in Shanghai. That flight is notoriously late. I reckon 3 out of 4 is late. Fingers crossed you get one of the lucky ones that's on time!
A

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-09-17 09:32:19 and read 58595 times.

Interesting notations from ANA:

Sept 5: flight canceled due to damage to fuselage. The notes state necessary maintenance was carried out and the plane returned to service. An instance of ramp rash of some sort? At any rate, the fix doesn't appear to be that remarkable.

Aug 25: Flight delayed 30 mins due to lightning strike "near the spot area" whatever that means. Certainly didn't take long to sort out that issue.

These two entries are notable because they are two of the challenges raised early on in developing the 787 - repairing the fuselage and effect of lightning strikes. It appears neither issue was remarkable in terms of getting the planes back in service. Nice!

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: glbltrvlr
Posted 2013-09-17 09:33:27 and read 58567 times.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 4):
I hope you don't have a domestic connection in PVG or dinner plans that night in Shanghai. That flight is notoriously late. I reckon 3 out of 4 is late. Fingers crossed you get one of the lucky ones that's on time!

Shower, dinner and bed is all that is on the agenda, but I hope it isn't too late arriving. Now you have my curiosity up - will go look at the history.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: swallow
Posted 2013-09-17 09:37:35 and read 58465 times.

And right on cue, AAB chimes in...

there are “still issues and Boeing is aware of that. And they need to resolve these issues very quickly because Qatar Airways is getting very frustrated with them.

“There are so many teething problems... although it is not anything major that would require us to ground our aircraft, it is enough to give us grief on our dispatch reliability,” says Al Baker



http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ut-continuing-787-problems-390629/

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: glbltrvlr
Posted 2013-09-17 09:49:23 and read 58124 times.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 4):
That flight is notoriously late.

Took a quick look at FlightAware history and the past two weeks don't look too bad. Looks like they are adjusting the departure time for winds as those are a minimum 30 minutes later than the schedule, but the arrivals for all but two flights are pretty much bang on with two exceptions. The flight yesterday was 5 hours late leaving LAX and 4 hours late arriving and one a couple weeks ago was about an hour late.

Funny how our expectations have changed over the years. Wasn't that long ago that arriving on the scheduled day would have been good enough.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-09-17 10:00:39 and read 57844 times.

"The decision about which aircraft to order will be driven by “how the problems are fixed and how we are convinced that we have confidence that the problems will be fixed."
Ok so here we have an executive of an airline publicy stating that the decision to purchase a/c is not always about which a/c better suits their needs, accomodates their market and performance specifications compared to the alternatives.
Can we now dispense with the A.Net myth that politics and non-a/c performance issues have nothing to do with orders?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-17 10:06:23 and read 57636 times.

AAB's closing remark in the FlightGlobal article is pretty blunt: "“If we have to move away from the -8 due to the issues we have, then we may look at interim A330s.”

He has been fairly quiet and a strong defender of the 787 at least in public (he called the grounding stupid), but seems to be on the verge of losing patience...

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-09-17 10:09:42 and read 57580 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 10):
He has been fairly quiet and a strong defender of the 787 at least in public (he called the grounding stupid), but seems to be on the verge of losing patience...

He could also be on the verge of converting those 30 options to firm orders at the Dubai Air Show. He does seem to prefer negotiating via public statements.   

I mean how quickly can he get A330-200s?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SelseyBill
Posted 2013-09-17 12:54:33 and read 54417 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
I mean how quickly can he get A330-200s?

I'd imagine he has JL on speed-dial on his phone, and I'd also imagine that JL would 'find' 30 A332's for QR pdq, and attached to a pretty nice price-tag too.

I'd also imagine the executives in Toulouse would love to have a headline or two reporting 787 orders being replaced by A330's.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-17 13:01:00 and read 54268 times.

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 12):
and attached to a pretty nice price-tag too.

Price tag should be the least concern for Mr Baker.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-09-17 13:12:56 and read 53949 times.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 4):
ANA's stats should be taken with a grain of salt. They keep 5 spare 787s (2 domestic + 3 international) at all times.


I don't know about that. With the flight rate they were hitting in early September (up to 76 flights a day--normally around 70) I don't see how they could do that with a fleet of 20 airplanes with 5 of them parked. They must be doing 5-7 flights a day with their domestic fleet. Also in cases where the standby airplane was used, it would be hard to get the flight off within their 2 hour reporting requirement so we'd see more substitutions on their website.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ADent
Posted 2013-09-17 15:48:56 and read 51428 times.

United had a plane stuck in China for a week.

UA 787 NRT-ORD 09-07-13 (by airfinair Sep 9 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-09-17 15:57:48 and read 51321 times.

Quoting ADent (Reply 15):
United had a plane stuck in China for a week.

Another frame was apparently out of service in DEN for a week as well, seems they just conducted a post-mx flight:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26906

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-09-17 17:03:31 and read 50447 times.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 4):
ANA's stats should be taken with a grain of salt. They keep 5 spare 787s (2 domestic + 3 international) at all times. Helps keep the schedule look like its working like clockwork. That being said, its an expensive proposition for any airline to keep that many frames on standby at all times...

Well this is pretty typical of the Japanese process.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 5):
Aug 25: Flight delayed 30 mins due to lightning strike "near the spot area" whatever that means. Certainly didn't take long to sort out that issue.

Twitter confirms there was a huge thunderstorm nearby that day. A lightning bolt struck a commuter train earlier in that day too. So it was basically for severe weather.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ADent
Posted 2013-09-17 19:44:14 and read 48656 times.

N27901 didn't fly 30 Aug, 23 Aug thru 25 Aug.
N26902 didn't fly 09 Sep, 29 Aug thru 06 Sep (ferry flight on 07 Sep), 17 Aug thru 20 Aug
N27903 didn't fly 17 Sep, 08 Sep, 28 Aug, 19 Aug, 09 Aug thru 12 Aug
N20904 didn't fly 13 Aug.
N45905 didn't fly 21 Aug.
N26906 didn't flu 11 Sep thru 16 Sep, 28 Aug thru 29 Aug, 14 Aug
N29907 has flown every day since 10 Aug

Based on flight aware data.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Navigator
Posted 2013-09-17 22:26:01 and read 47169 times.

Hi,

For Norwegian the 787 reliability has been nothing less than a disaster so far. One plane was grounded for technical reasons for days messing up the whole long haul schedule and causing badwill among passengers.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-09-17 23:20:26 and read 46604 times.

Per passenger reports, LO 787s notoriously have issues with their in-flight entertainment system. The plane itself though seems to be doing fine, save for minor growing pains.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: photoshooter
Posted 2013-09-18 02:48:30 and read 45016 times.

Quoting ADent (Reply 18):

N27901 didn't fly 30 Aug, 23 Aug thru 25 Aug.
N26902 didn't fly 09 Sep, 29 Aug thru 06 Sep (ferry flight on 07 Sep), 17 Aug thru 20 Aug
N27903 didn't fly 17 Sep, 08 Sep, 28 Aug, 19 Aug, 09 Aug thru 12 Aug
N20904 didn't fly 13 Aug.
N45905 didn't fly 21 Aug.
N26906 didn't flu 11 Sep thru 16 Sep, 28 Aug thru 29 Aug, 14 Aug
N29907 has flown every day since 10 Aug

Based on flight aware data.

Wonder if they planned this or were forced to do so. Both would be very sad. I've logged the NAX 787 last summer and it was the best flight ever. Any news from the TUI group? Are they having problems? Can't wait to see JAF B787!

Photoshooter   

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2013-09-18 03:10:56 and read 44792 times.

The worst thing about the DY incidents is that the plane worked perfectly fine on European operations. But it does seem to me that Boeing delivered the first aircraft without enough maturity in the test program. This has got to be one of the most disasterous new aircraft launches of all time?

The A380 had its problems, but never anything lasting this long. Even SQ said that during the first few months of A380 operations they had very good dispatch reliability.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BaconButty
Posted 2013-09-18 03:43:51 and read 44591 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 9):
"The decision about which aircraft to order will be driven by “how the problems are fixed and how we are convinced that we have confidence that the problems will be fixed."
Ok so here we have an executive of an airline publicy stating that the decision to purchase a/c is not always about which a/c better suits their needs, accomodates their market and performance specifications compared to the alternatives.
Can we now dispense with the A.Net myth that politics and non-a/c performance issues have nothing to do with orders?

I don't know that there's may on here who would question that politics can influence some orders, though the particular orders that get singled out seem to lack any rational basis. However, isn't there a bit of confirmation bias going on here? AAB is actually saying the reverse - surely dispatch reliability is an aircraft performance metric?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: racercoup
Posted 2013-09-18 04:36:38 and read 44341 times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 22):
The A380 had its problems, but never anything lasting this long. Even SQ said that during the first few months of A380 operations they had very good dispatch reliability.

Comparing the two aircraft is difficult in MHO. Between Oct of the launch year and the following year only 13 A380 were delivered. In Sept of its launch year and the following year 49 787's were handed over to customers. It just seems there are more problems because there are a lot more air frames out there.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Lofty
Posted 2013-09-18 05:04:57 and read 45279 times.

I know Boeing have had to provide engineering teams to some carriers to overcome the issues which has included battery changes and Slow Fuelling. I also know one airline has had to change its towing procedure due to issues.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2013-09-18 06:15:04 and read 45210 times.

Quoting Lofty (Reply 25):
I know Boeing have had to provide engineering teams to some carriers to overcome the issues which has included battery changes and Slow Fuelling. I also know one airline has had to change its towing procedure due to issues.

DY had Boeing personnel on its 787 flights when it was trialing the aircraft in Europe. They sat in the front row of the premium cabin and had all sorts of equipment set up.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: wingman
Posted 2013-09-18 07:19:58 and read 45981 times.

SInce we reliably know that the 787 is the worst launch of any aircraft in history and a complete disaster for its customers, can someone produce the charts and stats for all aircraft launches since the dawn of the jet age? I'm kind of curious to see the rankings for the first two years of intro: dispatch rate, miles flown, pax flown, diversions, delays, deaths etc.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2013-09-18 07:30:26 and read 45758 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 27):

SInce we reliably know that the 787 is the worst launch of any aircraft in history and a complete disaster for its customers, can someone produce the charts and stats for all aircraft launches since the dawn of the jet age? I'm kind of curious to see the rankings for the first two years of intro: dispatch rate, miles flown, pax flown, diversions, delays, deaths etc.

That is a large overstatement. This is the first "all new" a/c launch in the age of the internetz and instant information. Every burp and hiccup is tweeted/cross posted and magnified x100.

The 747 and 777 each had tons of issues. IIRC the 320 and 330s had hull losses either during the testing phase or early introduction.

The 788 has had issues to be sure but there've been no injuries, no deaths and no hull losses. Boeing has learned a very expensive lesson in controlling the design phase of the a/c better and not being as reliable on out-sourcing. Penny wise and pound foolish etc.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-18 07:33:30 and read 45654 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 28):
IIRC the 320 and 330s had hull losses either during the testing phase or early introduction.

Yes, although that comparison is irrelevant because it was pilot error.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-18 07:40:36 and read 45567 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 28):
That is a large overstatement.

I think Wingman was being sarcastic.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-09-18 07:55:49 and read 45411 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 30):
I think Wingman was being sarcastic.

Me too

tortugamon

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2013-09-18 08:01:51 and read 45432 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 19):
For Norwegian the 787 reliability has been nothing less than a disaster so far.

I think the lesson here is a good one for any carrier: don't buy a small number of frames of a brand-new type and immediately try to use them in a 16-hour-utilization long-haul schedule. Any new type would have had the same issues. That is the sort of schedule that is extremely prone to disruption even for long-established carriers with mature types... just ask KLM.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-18 08:11:53 and read 45411 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 32):
I think the lesson here is a good one for any carrier: don't buy a small number of frames of a brand-new type and immediately try to use them in a 16-hour-utilization long-haul schedule.

Ding ding, jackpot.

I remember a few interviews with Norwegian's CEO (or a spokesman, don't remember it anymore) before they started long-haul. The man was a bit aggressive, he could not wait to start long-haul asap and he would crush the competitor (SAS), but now he's learning it the hard way.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-09-18 08:12:53 and read 45293 times.

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 23):
AAB is actually saying the reverse - surely dispatch reliability is an aircraft performance metric?

Yep, so the performance of the any future Boeing or Airbus product is??????
Essentially he is throwing all future OEM products under the bus regardless of their performance metircs, so a OEM metric.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SelseyBill
Posted 2013-09-18 09:14:38 and read 45005 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 28):
no hull losses

Do we know the status of the ET B788 that caught fire @ LHR ? Is it being repaired or written-off ?
(Apologies if this has already been discussed/ reported elsewhere).

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: mham001
Posted 2013-09-18 09:41:50 and read 44864 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 19):
For Norwegian the 787 reliability has been nothing less than a disaster so far.

The article I read quoted the Norwegian CEO? saying that they had had no real problems until these recent ones, so your statement is somewhat hyperbolic.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-09-18 09:52:12 and read 44825 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 32):
I think the lesson here is a good one for any carrier: don't buy a small number of frames of a brand-new type and immediately try to use them in a 16-hour-utilization long-haul schedule. Any new type would have had the same issues.

Spot on!   

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 33):
I remember a few interviews with Norwegian's CEO (or a spokesman, don't remember it anymore) before they started long-haul. The man was a bit aggressive, he could not wait to start long-haul asap and he would crush the competitor (SAS), but now he's learning it the hard way.

I guess he is. But in the end we will see the B787 stabilise her performance, but the question for the customers is of course "when?"

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-09-18 10:49:10 and read 44519 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
Price tag should be the least concern for Mr Baker.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 22):
This has got to be one of the most disasterous new aircraft launches of all time?

I would not use the word "disaster" because (thankfully) there were no lives lost. Maybe I'd call it a "PR disaster" or "fiscal disaster" but even those sound too strong. Compare to DC-10 which had hulls and lives lost and orders cancelled directly due to engineering faults like the cargo door design.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 28):
That is a large overstatement. This is the first "all new" a/c launch in the age of the internetz and instant information. Every burp and hiccup is tweeted/cross posted and magnified x100.

I suppose, but the two battery "fires" after the delay due to the EE bay "fire" would have been magnified to the hilt in the pre internet days as well.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2013-09-18 11:16:11 and read 44358 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38):
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 28):
That is a large overstatement. This is the first "all new" a/c launch in the age of the internetz and instant information. Every burp and hiccup is tweeted/cross posted and magnified x100.

I suppose, but the two battery "fires" after the delay due to the EE bay "fire" would have been magnified to the hilt in the pre internet days as well.

Not necessarily. I'm not claiming these are good events but nothing like what's happened to Airbus or McDonnel-Douglas.

It might be that Boeing blew it with having the suppliers handle a lot of the design and quality control may not be great. It's been a royal pain to Boeing but I assume they've identified the major issues and we'll see the 789 with a much smoother introduction. For the 788, they will incrimentally improve the plane and might also swap out parts as the designs improve.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: by738
Posted 2013-09-18 11:51:44 and read 44182 times.

Not seen many recent delays on any of the recent TOM 787 flights

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-20 05:46:56 and read 43449 times.

Small issue, an UA 787 diverted on a DEN-NRT flight due to a flap indicator light.

http://twitter.com/FriendlySkies1K/status/380932224738029568

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: wingman
Posted 2013-09-20 07:49:07 and read 43368 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 29):
Yes, although that comparison is irrelevant because it was pilot error.

I've always been proud, and quite amazed, that Airbus has never suffered a single crash due to anything wrong with its aircraft. As Karel says, all the early 320 losses, and the 320 demo/330 test flight losses (and all subsequent 320/330 crashes), were due to pilot error. In my immediate recollection I can't think of any aircraft manufacturer in history with such a "perfect record". They should put that in their sales brochures.

On the other hand, is it safe to say that since the fault in Airbus crashes always lies with the pilot that Airbus flight training might have room for improvement?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-20 08:02:24 and read 43192 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 42):
On the other hand, is it safe to say that since the fault in Airbus crashes always lies with the pilot that Airbus flight training might have room for improvement?

There is always room for improvement but it is usually up to the airline to decide how far they go.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: StTim
Posted 2013-09-20 08:12:44 and read 43171 times.

No frame maker will be too loud about safety and crashes - even lack of them. Such words could very easilly come back to haunt them if there was a manufacturing fault causing loss of life.

I never feel worried getting on a plane in a country with a high safety ethos. Some places say some African or ex - soviet countries may not engender such a feeling of inherent safety - merited or not.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-20 08:34:30 and read 43171 times.

Again, I think Wingman was being sarcastic.

He does raise an interesting point though: Are there any Airbus crashes where the ultimate cause was not pilot error (as in the result of some command input of lack thereof)? A crash that was just the result of a structural or mechanical failure?

And it does suggests something less than perfect in the man-machine interface.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-20 08:38:10 and read 43231 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 45):
He does raise an interesting point though: Are there any Airbus crashes where the ultimate cause was not pilot error (as in the result of some command input of lack thereof)? A crash that was just the result of a structural or mechanical failure?

Yes, an American Airlines A300 once lost a rudder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587

[Edited 2013-09-20 08:39:15]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-20 08:40:42 and read 43204 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 46):
Yes, an American Airlines A310 once lost a rudder.

That was an A300-600, but even that was blamed on excessive rudder movements commanded by the pilots. At AA pilot training had to change as a result. I do agree that this appears to come closest to something other than "pilot error".

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-09-20 08:46:47 and read 43115 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 47):
I do agree that this appears to come closest to something other than "pilot error".

It does, but it was more like an operational error by the whole of AA when they were flying with the A300.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-09-20 08:57:52 and read 43160 times.

Not a good week at LO: two of their 787s are grounded due to faulty fuel filters, most likely it is a manufacturing defect. EuroAtlantic 777 and 767 will fill in while two Dreamliners are being repaired.

[Edited 2013-09-20 09:00:37]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: bonusonus
Posted 2013-09-20 09:01:40 and read 43040 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 42):
I've always been proud, and quite amazed, that Airbus has never suffered a single crash due to anything wrong with its aircraft. As Karel says, all the early 320 losses, and the 320 demo/330 test flight losses (and all subsequent 320/330 crashes), were due to pilot error. In my immediate recollection I can't think of any aircraft manufacturer in history with such a "perfect record". They should put that in their sales brochures.

Pilot Error isn't always black and white though. Confusing/conflicting indicators and an input system that lacks feedback from the other pilot's commands are all things that contributed to the AF 330 crash, even if the main cause was human error.

As for dispatch reliability, do OEMs have to publish numbers on these sorts of things? I know they are tracked because reliability shortcoming penalties are typically written into contracts for commercial aircraft design/manufacture. And the penalties are almost always directly financial.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-20 09:06:32 and read 43055 times.

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 50):
Pilot Error isn't always black and white though. Confusing/conflicting indicators and an input system that lacks feedback from the other pilot's commands are all things that contributed to the AF 330 crash, even if the main cause was human error.

True, pilot error is usually a combination of many factors. But in case of AF447, a proper stall training would have helped.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: billreid
Posted 2013-09-20 12:04:55 and read 42746 times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 22):
The A380 had its problems, but never anything lasting this long. Even SQ said that during the first few months of A380 operations they had very good dispatch reliability.

I think this is completely unfair.
The A380 was not new technology at a level equivalent to the B787.
Remember that the A380's order book has gone DOA.

Comparing the A380 to the B787 is crazy at best.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: AirIndia111
Posted 2013-09-20 12:18:32 and read 42664 times.

Air India's VT-ANM was grounded in FRA for the past 48 hours. It has just taken off as AI 120D back to Delhi.

Apart from this, AI hasn't had any other major hiccups with their 787 operations and all flights have been operating as per schedule.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KPDX
Posted 2013-09-20 12:44:50 and read 42554 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 52):
think this is completely unfair.
The A380 was not new technology at a level equivalent to the B787.
Remember that the A380's order book has gone DOA.

Comparing the A380 to the B787 is crazy at best.

Well, to add on to this, aren't the majority of the 787's current problems caused by the electrical systems? If I understand correctly, they are quite a bit more complex than previous airliners. But I could be wrong.  

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-09-20 15:36:56 and read 42286 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 52):
The A380 was not new technology at a level equivalent to the B787.

Oh yes, the A380 at EIS easily was at least as much new tech as the B787 is now.

But let's focus on the B787 instead of other aircraft from whatever manufacturer. I am sure all the operating airlines and their customers are much more interested in that.

Overall I think het reliability rates are rising, and that is a good thing. In about a year or two there are enough B787's out there, and their reliability rate will have been proven by then at 9*.**%. At best we await that number before drawing conclusions.

[Edited 2013-09-20 15:44:04]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-09-20 15:47:21 and read 42199 times.

Quoting KPDX (Reply 54):
If I understand correctly, they are quite a bit more complex than previous airliners

They are not. They are a choice by Boeing and supposed to be simpler with the ability to operate with less maintenance in the future. The problems are caused by these systems being new to civilian airliners, and therefore have teething problems. Whether or not the more electrical based architecture of the B787-systems are really better compared to the systems we currently see in aircraft is highly debatable. Also these systems make continues progress.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ADent
Posted 2013-09-20 16:34:10 and read 42099 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 49):
Not a good week at LO:

Not a great week for UA.
- There was a diversion to Anchorage (N27901 on DEN-NRT). Aircraft enroute to DEN.
- A plane down for a day in China (N26902).
- 787 in DEN that has did not fly yesterday or today (N45905) .

Looks like a 777 is flying UA142 to LOS today.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: justloveplanes
Posted 2013-09-22 01:49:08 and read 41282 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 49):

Not a good week at LO: two of their 787s are grounded due to faulty fuel filters, most likely it is a manufacturing defect. EuroAtlantic 777 and 767 will fill in while two Dreamliners are being repaired.

Faulty fuel filters sounds strange to me. More likely fuel filters plugged way to early from less than clean components from Boeing subs or from rework. Sub contractors might not have the familiarity with the work environment required for complex integration and rework would introduce like risks. Maybe the fuel filters are faulty (maybe next gen fuel filters with built in diagnostics) vice just standard stuff that got prematurely plugged.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: packsonflight
Posted 2013-09-22 03:00:17 and read 41127 times.

When 787 is AOG and taken out of service for couple of days and the flight substituted with, say 777 does that affect the dispatch rate in a negative way? I mean when a aircraft is taken out of service there is technically not a delay....

What I find strange is the incredibly high dispatch rate with all those cancelations.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-22 03:25:21 and read 40962 times.

Quoting packsonflight (Reply 59):
I mean when a aircraft is taken out of service there is technically not a delay....

What I find strange is the incredibly high dispatch rate with all those cancelations.

It is a good question. My hypothesis is that the immediately impacted flight may count against the dispatch rate, but the following flights that are substituted by another aircraft while the 787 is AOG, does not count against the dispatch rate.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-09-22 04:56:41 and read 40785 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 32):
I think the lesson here is a good one for any carrier: don't buy a small number of frames of a brand-new type and immediately try to use them in a 16-hour-utilization long-haul schedule.

I can only see one major flaw in this form of thinking, that is the product that Boeing initial offered.
The 787 was offered up to the airlines as a long haul a/c able to open new routes with sufficient capacity to make long and thin viable at a price point that allowed many smaller players to get into the market. The initial 787 price was much lower that it is today and this is even before the well known discounts.
Prior to the 787, long haul was done by carriers who were able to afford a/c like the 747's, it then shifted to the 767/A330/777's, on the high end the 777W was and still is an expensive frame, small carriers without the capital and the market size left the market to "major foreign" carriers who at times demanded guarantees to provide service.
In looking at the order book for the 787, the bulk of the initial orders are / were not to a few major carriers but to numerous smaller carriers some of them national airlines who finally saw an a/c which would allow them compete in the long haul market at a price to themselves that was competitive.
In the high tech world we live in today, do we expect a device to be delivered with a operational rate of less than 50%, in the a/c industry everyone expects high 90%'s, no one expected the current debacle that is the 787, and if experts abound that say I told you so how do we compare that with the OEM's track record prior to that?
Time will not tell whether it was a false promise by Boeing, as the price of the frame has gone up and no one expects it to come down after production and deliveries have stabilized, so maybe a bridge too far.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2013-09-22 05:16:48 and read 40728 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 52):
Remember that the A380's order book has gone DOA.

What has this to do with the subject at hand??!!

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-09-22 08:33:11 and read 40321 times.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 62):
Quoting billreid (Reply 52):
Remember that the A380's order book has gone DOA.

What has this to do with the subject at hand??!!

Please don't feed the troll.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-09-22 11:20:43 and read 40101 times.

Looking at the ANA data, since June 1st they've flown 7575 flights and have had 36 "issues" for a 99.5% "successful" flight rate. Take it ant way you want, it looks pretty good to me.
http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/japan/e/local/common/share/boeing787info/

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-22 12:44:11 and read 39795 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 64):
Looking at the ANA data, since June 1st they've flown 7575 flights and have had 36 "issues" for a 99.5% "successful" flight rate. Take it ant way you want, it looks pretty good to me.

Anyone have a definite answer for the hypothesis below? If one of the 36 "issues" results in a 787 being AOG for 5 days and 20 flights requiring substitute aircraft, is that one issue or 20? Is it one cancellation or 20 that count against the aircraft?

Quoting sankaps (Reply 60):
hypothesis is that the immediately impacted flight may count against the dispatch rate, but the following flights that are substituted by another aircraft while the 787 is AOG, does not count against the dispatch rate.


[Edited 2013-09-22 13:14:57]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: VV701
Posted 2013-09-22 13:01:12 and read 40336 times.

BA operated its first 787 revenue rotation on 9 August (LHR-ARN-LHR, BA780/81) with two aircraft delivered and available. This same flight then operated every day until 31 August. Of the 23 completed rotations in this period 10 were flown by the first aircraft delivered, G-ZBJB, 13 by the second, G-ZBJA. At no time were flights operated by a single aircraft on more than two consecutive days.

BA switched from these short-haul "test" (but fully commercial) flights to long-haul flights as pre-announced on 1 September. Since that date and up to and including 20 September BA has operated LHR-YYZ-LHR BA092/93 every day. This rotation was first flown by the third aircraft to be delivered, G-ZBJC, on 7 September. With three aircraft available BA launched the planned three-times-weekly BA097/96 service (also LHR-YYZ-LHR) on 15 September. In this second phase of BA operation no flight has been cancelled. However 'JB did not operate a single flight between 4 and 14 September. It is not clear whether this was a planned or forced withdrawal from service. But I would tend to favour a planned withdrawal as it was returned to service on the day that BA097/96 was operated by a 787 for the first time.

We can draw two possible conclusions from the above facts. It may be that all planned revenue flights have operated (with no significant delays?) because of BA's cautious planning that has ensured that a back-up aircraft has been available every day. Or it may be because of the reliability of their 787s.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: billreid
Posted 2013-09-22 22:14:12 and read 39250 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 55):
Oh yes, the A380 at EIS easily was at least as much new tech as the B787 is now.

Seriously?
The A380 wasn't the quantum leap that the A350 is or the B787 is. Big doesn't translate into new technology.
I read that the B787 uses six times the electricity that any previous commercial aircraft uses.
Boeing has had a lot of problems with different pressurization and humidity that the A380 can't do.
The barrel construction was so radical and risky that AB didn't dare do similar with the A350. We can root for one acft vs. another but please try to keep this reasonable.
AB also backed away from the Lithium battery in the A350. I see a lower risk tolerance at AB. It may be smarter or perhaps not, but to claim the A380 was as much new tech as the B787 is shocking.

So could you please list all the "Brand" new technology in the bus?
Or are you referring to the gold faucets in Emirates A380?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: NAV20
Posted 2013-09-22 22:59:45 and read 39097 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 64):
Looking at the ANA data, since June 1st they've flown 7575 flights and have had 36 "issues" for a 99.5% "successful" flight rate.

I suspect that part of the picture is a perennial problem in journalism; that, on any given day, there are a lot more stories being contributed by the journalists than there is space available in the newspaper to print them.   The editors and sub-editors often, therefore, late in the day, have to 'cut' many perfectly-good stories because there simply isn't room for them!

It's therefore very possible (indeed, only too likely) that, because of its 'prominence' and its early teething troubles (especially fires, no editor worth his salt would 'spike' a story about an aeroplane actually catching fire!), stories about B787 flights being delayed are considered 'news' and often get left in - whereas delays affecting less-prominent aircraft marques are 'cut'? Boeing did an excellent job of 'publicising' the 787's special qualities etc. - but that very success may be 'backfiring' on them now, for a while at least?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-23 02:35:27 and read 38792 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 67):
So could you please list all the "Brand" new technology in the bus?
Or are you referring to the gold faucets in Emirates A380?

New technology is only useful if it is both cost-effective AND reliable. Don't think a discussion of which aircraft -- the 787, A350, or A380 has the most new technology -- unless that technology is actually doing its job properly.

Keep in mind the 787 is no longer a that new. It first flew 6 years ago. EIS was two years ago.

On a related note, both Norwegian 787s has tech delays yesterday as well -- http://finance.yahoo.com/news/norweg...s-both-dreamliners-064708437.html. .

And according to the other thread, two LOT 787s are AOG as well -- or were AOG yesterday -- requiring substitution by Euroatlantic.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 68):
stories about B787 flights being delayed are considered 'news' and often get left in - whereas delays affecting less-prominent aircraft marques are 'cut'?

Only way to dispel whether this is unfounded is through apples-to-apples stats that show dispatch reliability, utilization (to account for excessive use of spares, if that is indeed the case), and unscheduled downtime of the 787 (to account for lengthy AOGs that may not be captured fully in dispatch reliability) relative to other aircraft across the different airlines. What stats we have seen so far do not really paint a full picture.

[Edited 2013-09-23 02:38:33]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: davies2911
Posted 2013-09-23 04:27:55 and read 38599 times.

Does anyone know how TOM are managing with thier fleet of 787's?

The days ive looked online they seem to be doing ok with them?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Pygmalion
Posted 2013-09-23 05:27:47 and read 38336 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 69):

Keep in mind the 787 is no longer a that new. It first flew 6 years ago. EIS was two years ago.

First flight December 2009, first delivery Sept 2011.

Its not that new but its first flight was less than 4 years ago. It is now two years in service.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-23 05:34:55 and read 38297 times.

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 71):

First flight December 2009, first delivery Sept 2011.

Its not that new but its first flight was less than 4 years ago. It is now two years in service.

Apologies, you are correct -- I meant roll-out was 6 years ago, and EIS two years ago.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: StTim
Posted 2013-09-23 05:42:03 and read 38251 times.

Ah yes - but you have to remember that the Roll Out proved to be a stunt. That date should be forgotten. I bet many at Boeing wish they could forget it with hindsight.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Kengo
Posted 2013-09-23 05:44:27 and read 38275 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 69):
Quoting sankaps (Reply 69):
On a related note, both Norwegian 787s has tech delays yesterday as well -- http://finance.yahoo.com/news/norweg...html.

Per this article, DY demanded a meeting with Boeing executives later this week.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/norweg...mands-better-boeing-114548215.html

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-09-23 05:45:01 and read 38244 times.

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 71):
Its not that new but its first flight was less than 4 years ago. It is now two years in service.

It was also grounded for a few months, so as with all statistics there is some truth or lack thereof if someone takes it that the a/c has been in continous service for 2 years.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-09-23 06:57:56 and read 38063 times.

Quoting billreid (Reply 67):
Seriously?
The A380 wasn't the quantum leap that the A350 is or the B787 is. Big doesn't translate into new technology.

Yes it most certainly was. There were so many firsts on the A380, the list is long. There were more firsts in aviation in the A380 then on the B787 if you do the research right. B787 has different technology in electronics and of course a CFRP-barrel fuselage.

But on virtually all other aspects which were advertised on the B787, the A380 had them first. Like high-pressure hydraulics, higher humidity cabins, higher pressurisation of the cabin, etc, etc,etc. Things like brake to vacate are not on the B787, even though it is 5 years younger and supposedly more modern. But the reality tells a different story, a more diverse story.

Overall the B787 will now be more modern then the A380, but when the A350 has its EIS, that is the most modern airliner then. Just as natural evolution goes forward.

On topic: a friend of mine, also an aviation enthusiastic guy, just flew his first flight on the B787 as a passenger. There were no tech-issues at all, and the flying qualities of the B787 were very convincing. IFE was also very good and worked flawlessly. But the overall experience compared to the B777 was to him a bit disappointing. It was not that silent as he had hoped it would, and the interior lacked of warm look and feel, at least at UA. Also the seating was crappy and the cushions he did not find that comfortable.

I guess this is in line with quite a few trip reports we have read over the B787.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2013-09-23 06:59:59 and read 38264 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 61):
In the high tech world we live in today, do we expect a device to be delivered with a operational rate of less than 50%, in the a/c industry everyone expects high 90%'s, no one expected the current debacle that is the 787, and if experts abound that say I told you so how do we compare that with the OEM's track record prior to that?

No one is alleging, and the data does not come remotely close to supporting, an "operational rate of less than 50%."

And it's just reality -- reality that any airline should be prepared for. Brand-new types suffer worse dispatch reliability for any operator, both because there are technical issues to be worked out and because it takes the operator more time to diagnose and fix problems with an unfamiliar airplane. The smart operators understand that and gradually ramp up utilization and stage length. Any operator that immediately plunges a brand-new new type into a schedule with extremely high utilization of all frames should not be surprised when reliability suffers. I don't think the way DY initially scheduled their 787s was realistic for any frame or airline.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: glbltrvlr
Posted 2013-09-23 13:49:41 and read 37974 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 76):
On topic: a friend of mine, also an aviation enthusiastic guy, just flew his first flight on the B787 as a passenger. There were no tech-issues at all, and the flying qualities of the B787 were very convincing. IFE was also very good and worked flawlessly. But the overall experience compared to the B777 was to him a bit disappointing. It was not that silent as he had hoped it would, and the interior lacked of warm look and feel, at least at UA. Also the seating was crappy and the cushions he did not find that comfortable.

I just did my first 787 flight a few days ago UA 198 LAX-PVG. Complete report is here: 787 - UA198 (LAX-PVG) (by glbltrvlr Sep 21 2013 in Trip Reports)

but I would generally agree with your friend. I didn't see a notable reduction in cabin noise and the coach seats weren't any different than any other coach seat. Not sure what a warm interior looks like - I thought the blue/purple "evening" colors were interesting. I was less impressed with the coach IFE, but that could have been because I was in a bulkhead seat with the armrest screen.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2013-09-24 03:51:09 and read 37314 times.

Another news article in the constant stream of what seems to be bad news or the Dreamliner recently, this time affecting two LOT frames, SP-LRB and 'LRC.

The article, written by Christine Negroni for Seattle pi., reports that the two Dreamliners in question were delivered without the fuel filters fitted and were only discovered to be missing during routine maintenance.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/flyingless...liners-spend-the-weekend-grounded/

There will inevitably be some uninformed supposition that this is the fault of the engine manufacturer. It will be confirmed in the fullness of time however, that the filters in question are the LP filters, that they were removed by Boeing and that they were not reinstalled prior to delivery.

Whilst this news will inevitably incite posts of outrage and disbelief from the usual suspects, this latest issue is valid, current and unique to the other Dreamliner woes.

The powers that be seem to think it not worthy of a new thread in which to dicuss it. However, this issue raises questions now, not of the electrical architecture or of the multitude of software glitches, but on Boeing's ability to actually assemble and put the things together correctly.

Rgds

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2013-09-24 04:21:55 and read 37172 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 66):
We can draw two possible conclusions from the above facts. It may be that all planned revenue flights have operated (with no significant delays?) because of BA's cautious planning that has ensured that a back-up aircraft has been available every day. Or it may be because of the reliability of their 787s.

What was the time keeping like ? last minute substitutions will show up as a flight delay.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-24 04:39:16 and read 37176 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 77):
Any operator that immediately plunges a brand-new new type into a schedule with extremely high utilization of all frames should not be surprised when reliability suffers

Norwegian received their first 787 on June 29, and put them on long-haul on August 16. Prior to Aug 16, they were used on intra-Europe short-hauls. They did not plunge it directly into a long-haul schedule with high utilization.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Pygmalion
Posted 2013-09-24 09:04:17 and read 36991 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 81):
Norwegian received their first 787 on June 29, and put them on long-haul on August 16. Prior to Aug 16, they were used on intra-Europe short-hauls. They did not plunge it directly into a long-haul schedule with high utilization.

They only had one frame until August. You cant do long haul and 11-12 hour flights with one frame and do daily service.

As soon as they had two... they went to straight to long haul. Whether that was wise or not, I leave to A-net at large.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ADent
Posted 2013-09-24 11:24:48 and read 36929 times.

Just whipped up some numbers.

UAs 787s have sat on the ground 12% of their days since Aug 1. 11% in Aug and 14% so far in Sep.

N26902 has been on the ground 24% of its days, N29907 has not missed a single day.
N20904 has missed 2%, the rest is at least 11%.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Sooner787
Posted 2013-09-24 12:40:29 and read 36728 times.

Anybody care to crunch nbrs on 787 reliability between the delivered
frames that went thru post-factory re-work versus the later builds that
didn't require rework?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: hkcanadaexpat
Posted 2013-09-24 19:00:37 and read 36460 times.

Quoting ADent (Reply 83):
Just whipped up some numbers.
UAs 787s have sat on the ground 12% of their days since Aug 1. 11% in Aug and 14% so far in Sep.
N26902 has been on the ground 24% of its days, N29907 has not missed a single day.
N20904 has missed 2%, the rest is at least 11%.

Are you including the calc that UAL's current 787 flight schedule requires only 6 frames while they have 7 on hand (ie UAL has one spare on hand). I would presume that if you calculated the fact that one of the 7 frames is supposed to be on the ground at all time (ie no scheduled flights planned), the stats improve a lot.

The reality is that UAL's 787s are having teething problems like those of all other airlines. Having the spare 787 in the system has although allowed them to minimize cancellation and manage delays.

A

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ADent
Posted 2013-09-25 00:25:52 and read 36181 times.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 85):
Are you including the calc that UAL's current 787 flight schedule requires only 6 frames while they have 7 on hand (ie UAL has one spare on hand)

Nope.

Of the 46 days since the 7th plane entered regular service - on 8 days all 7 flew, on 32 days 6 flew, and on 6 days only 5 flew.

On 13% of the days they were one plane short and 17% of the time they had an extra in service.


I figured if they had a 6 plane schedule they would rotate the planes in and out in a pattern. 2 of the planes have missed a combined total of 1 day.

The extra 787 should be in IAH, right? I can check the number of days the out of service plane spent there.
3 planes have been on the ground for 6 days in a row in Sep. 2 of those spent the time in DEN and 1 in PVG.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: hkcanadaexpat
Posted 2013-09-25 00:54:47 and read 36098 times.

Quoting ADent (Reply 86):
on 6 days only 5 flew

those are the problem days where there were cancellations and/or type subs. 6-out of-46 is still very high rate. would be interesting to see if the trend has been decreasing (ie whether those 6 days are evenly distributed over 46 days or front-end heavy).

Quoting ADent (Reply 86):
The extra 787 should be in IAH, right?

Not necessarily. also LAX and DEN.
Cheers
A

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-09-25 22:14:55 and read 35659 times.

Since the beginning of September JAL (with 11 airplanes) has scheduled either 18 or 20 flights every day (520 flights total) with 2 roundtrips being subbed with a 767 due to "change of airplane operating plan" and 1 flight cancelled due to lightning strike damage--that's about 99%.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-09-29 12:13:45 and read 33586 times.

LOT 787 Lands diverts to Iceland because of ID System Issue

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...n-identification-system-issue.html

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-09-29 12:20:11 and read 33501 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 88):
Since the beginning of September JAL (with 11 airplanes) has scheduled either 18 or 20 flights every day (520 flights total) with 2 roundtrips being subbed with a 767 due to "change of airplane operating plan" and 1 flight cancelled due to lightning strike damage--that's about 99%.

No flights delayed because of technical problems?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-09-29 12:31:22 and read 33479 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 90):
No flights delayed because of technical problems?


Not from the looks of it. They're pretty forthcoming with information.

http://www.jal.com/cms/en/corp_00229.html

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-09-29 12:57:18 and read 33344 times.

I had a look at the table it runs from June to 28th of September. During that time there are 1849 flights and 22 delays of more than 15 minute because the airplane going tech.
That makes it 98,81 %, a really good number.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-09-29 13:04:22 and read 33261 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 92):
During that time there are 1849 flights and 22 delays of more than 15 minute because the airplane going tech.
That makes it 98,81 %, a really good number.

Not quite, as the table states "Departure Delay More Than 2 Hours" - rather than 15 minutes. From July through August I estimate they were operating with a DR in the lower 97%.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: B777LRF
Posted 2013-09-29 14:05:07 and read 33079 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 89):
LOT 787 Lands diverts to Iceland because of ID System Issue

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0....html

Sounds like transponder failure, but they were allowed to enter Oceanic airspace for a FL270 (below RVSM airspace) crossing. And while pottering along at FL270 over the ocean is fine, not a lot of traffic down there, traversing European airspace would have caused a lot of ATC centres a lot of hassle, and inconvenienced a long range of other flights. Good call then, all things considered, to order the aircraft down in KEF so that only LOT are being affected.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-30 01:57:57 and read 32495 times.

The transponder went tech? First time I heard about this issue.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-09-30 09:44:28 and read 32139 times.

A statement from Boeing:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...chile-boeing-idUSBRE98T0N920130930

Quote:
"Clearly we've had some challenges on 787 reliability and we're focused on making that reliability better", Boeing Commercial Airplanes marketing vice president Randy Tinseth said at a press conference in Chile's capital Santiago.

Tinseth described the issues surrounding the 787s as a "teething problem, not systemic."

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-10-01 23:46:32 and read 31359 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 32):

So true, I flew on SP-LRA and SP-LRB back in January, flights were perfect on European promotional flights to BRU, BUD, LHR or Germany.... Once they entered intercontinental, grounded for months... Lately LO flight diverted to KEF, or 2 frames got grounded with oil filters missing...

Just not a good image, lately....

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-10-02 06:11:38 and read 31040 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 93):
Not quite, as the table states "Departure Delay More Than 2 Hours" - rather than 15 minutes. From July through August I estimate they were operating with a DR in the lower 97%.

How many stand-by aircraft were required to meet this departure standard?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-10-02 20:36:58 and read 30641 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 98):

flood, by this, Ircan quote maaaaaany European big carriers that dont depart on time from US.... Its not their policy, is US standard. Slots dont matter at JFK, it seems, spent more hours sitting on the tarmac, well, inside the plane, than actually at the airport.... I think only Jetblue departs there on time, if lucky....

Try to get to the likes of BRU, FRA, WAW, Ams,FCO and the likes.... 7 hours trip easy becomes 12

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: VV701
Posted 2013-10-03 03:29:41 and read 30397 times.

"Norwegian Air said its grounded Boeing 787 Dreamliner could return to short haul service later this week and is so confident in the aircraft it will probably order more. The airline’s chief executive Bjorn Kjos said the 787 was a better aircraft than advertised but Boeing was unprepared to cope with its teething problems."

Source:

http://uk.flightaware.com/squawks/vi...short_haul_service_later_this_week

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: justloveplanes
Posted 2013-10-03 04:17:38 and read 30263 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 88):
1 flight cancelled due to lightning strike damage

As I recall, the strike required no repairs, it was just inspection?

From

http://airguideonline.com/2013/10/02...hort-haul-service-later-this-week/

“I believe that the 787 is an incredibly good aircraft,” Kjos (CEO) said in an interview. “It’s even better on performance than we anticipated, the fuel burn is lower.”

What frame number is this? Post or pre-airframe 50? Is this still an overspec weight aircraft at Norweigian?

and this

“Boeing is increasing parts stocking at all the airports where Norwegian flies its 787s,” Boeing said in a statement. “Norwegian will be receiving this increased parts stocking as an enhancement to the services Boeing is providing and the parts are expected to be in place in the days ahead.”

Are the parts failures evenly spread, or are there specific pieces causing the majority of the trouble?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: hkcanadaexpat
Posted 2013-10-03 04:45:33 and read 30320 times.

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 101):
What frame number is this? Post or pre-airframe 50?

Both Norwegian frames are post-50. EI-LNA is line number 102 and EI-LNB is line number 112.
A

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: justloveplanes
Posted 2013-10-03 05:48:08 and read 30114 times.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 102):
Both Norwegian frames are post-50. EI-LNA is line number 102 and EI-LNB is line number 112.
A

So these are on spec aircraft it looks like for weight anyway.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-10-11 15:04:57 and read 29447 times.

Apparently today's UAL94/95 flight has been canceled. The aircraft involved (N29907) has been re-scheduled for IAH-LOS with an 1.5 hours delay.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...4/history/20131011/1400Z/KIAH/KDEN

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: wingman
Posted 2013-10-11 15:48:38 and read 29265 times.

Are we going to reopen this thread for every delay, diversion, or cancellation of a 787 flight? It'd be like reopening the 380 threads for every day that goes by without one selling. I struggle to see the point but always happy to play the game.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-10-11 15:53:03 and read 29246 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 105):
Are we going to reopen this thread for every delay, diversion, or cancellation of a 787 flight?

This thread was never closed. Secondly, the above post answers the question of the thread starter.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: wingman
Posted 2013-10-11 16:16:48 and read 29187 times.

OK, was just wondering. Now we're back to four active and separate 787 bashing threads. Thanks.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-11 16:19:35 and read 29191 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 107):
four active and separate 787 bashing threads

Yup, like the "bashers" are making up the incidents and are somehow responsible for the issues.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-10-11 16:24:09 and read 29152 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 107):
OK, was just wondering. Now we're back to four active and separate 787 bashing threads. Thanks.

Unfortunately until this beautiful bird improves her reliability , we are going to continue seeing these threads.

For what its worth, UA's DEN-NRT flight was 2 hours late today and 1 hour late yesterday. LAX-NRT was on time today and on time yesterday.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2013-10-11 16:27:53 and read 29164 times.

People on this board are at the least, curious about how the 787 is performing - including me. The bashers are in a seperate category.

It's simple, if you don't want to "endure" those that want a list of issues with this plane, don't read it.

We know the a hydrolic pump was redesigned in part given DY issues with their aircraft. Boeing gets tons of data as each plane operates and is building up information they need to make decisions about changes to the design of certain parts on the a/c.

Welcome to the information age.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-10-11 16:37:19 and read 29140 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 107):
OK, was just wondering. Now we're back to four active and separate 787 bashing threads. Thanks.

I'm not sure why you see this as bashing. This thread is about the performance of the 787 and an United bird going tech is 100% on-topic.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: billreid
Posted 2013-10-11 18:53:39 and read 28965 times.

Last I heard it performs quite well after getting off the ground as do most airplanes. Generally planes are considered not to be performing well if they are on the ground.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-10-11 19:16:07 and read 28930 times.

Using Flight Stats on Denver to Nartia

This flight has an average delay of 54 minutes with a standard deviation of 72.28 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 0% of other flights.


In the last 62 flights - 3% cancellations, 16% excessive delay.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: copter808
Posted 2013-10-11 20:10:47 and read 28845 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 109):
Unfortunately until this beautiful bird improves her reliability , we are going to continue seeing these threads.

But why do we have to bring up every little thing?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-10-11 22:28:35 and read 28756 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 113):
Using Flight Stats on Denver to Nartia

This flight has an average delay of 54 minutes with a standard deviation of 72.28 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 0% of other flights.

In the last 62 flights - 3% cancellations, 16% excessive delay.


Not to say the 787 is the poster child for entry into service but lets add a few more numbers to the mix. In the last 30 days only one airport in the U. S. has had more delays than DEN (6032, average of 200+ per day) and that's ORD (8384). During that departure/arrival time periods DEN/NRT only have about an 80% departure/arrival on time rate for ALL flights. So even if the flight leaves DEN on time its only going to arrive on time 80% of the time.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: hkcanadaexpat
Posted 2013-10-11 22:41:38 and read 28795 times.

Here are some more stats:

> 94 788s delivered to date
> 1 Broken in LHR (Ethiopian)
> 5 Haven't Entered into Service Yet (1 for each of LAN, Air India, China Southern, Qantas, Royal Brunei)
> Which leaves 88 "Active" 788s

Of those 88, 5 have not flown for more than 48 hours = 6%
> ANA JA-801A (hasn't flown in more than a week)
> Qatar A7-BCK (hasn't flown since 9-Oct)
> LOT SP-LRA (hasn't flown since 7-Oct)
> Thomson G-TUIA (hasn't flown in more than a week)
> Norwegian EI-LNB (hasn't flown in more than a week)

Based on these stats and way of calculation, reliability could be estimated at 94%. Now this is based on a moment in time (now) rather than an average over time. Nonetheless, I'm convinced neither Boeing or its customers are happy with that statistic.

A

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-10-11 23:23:26 and read 28681 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 115):
In the last 30 days only one airport in the U. S. has had more delays than DEN (6032, average of 200+ per day) and that's ORD (8384). During that departure/arrival time periods DEN/NRT only have about an 80% departure/arrival on time rate for ALL flights. So even if the flight leaves DEN on time its only going to arrive on time 80% of the time.
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Media/....do?region=us&queryDate=last30Days has Denver right down the list.




San Diego - NRT - According to Flight Stats

This flight has an average delay of 40 minutes with a standard deviation of 53.4 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 11% of other flights.

60 flights - 9 with excessive delays - 15%


Boston - NRT - According to Flight Stats

This flight has an average delay of 36 minutes with a standard deviation of 21.65 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 34% of other flights.

10% of flights Late or very late - no excessive delays.

Helsinki - NRT - According to flight stats

This flight has an average delay of 71 minutes with a standard deviation of 119.36 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 0% of other flights.

6% of flights very late of excessive



Peking - Handa - According to flight stats


Jal 787

This flight has an average delay of 39 minutes with a standard deviation of 55.4 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 9% of other flights.

Late 11 17%
Very Late 3 4%
Excessive 8 12%


ANA 787

This flight has an average delay of 44 minutes with a standard deviation of 65.7 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 5% of other flights.

Late 11 19%
Very Late 0 0%
Excessive 7 12%

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-10-11 23:34:52 and read 28657 times.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 116):
> ANA JA-801A (hasn't flown in more than a week)

I heard this one is getting some routine maintenance done. Remember she was the first to be delivered 2 years ago, so she's probably due for a check or 2.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 117):
This flight has an average delay of 36 minutes with a standard deviation of 21.65 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 34% of other flights.

Now is this all other flights or just 787s?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-10-11 23:38:38 and read 28622 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 118):
Now is this all other flights or just 787s?

All the flights with that flight number - so if the aircraft was subbed I cant change it.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-12 00:42:03 and read 28596 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 113):
Using Flight Stats on Denver to Nartia

This flight has an average delay of 54 minutes with a standard deviation of 72.28 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 0% of other flights.


In the last 62 flights - 3% cancellations, 16% excessive delay.
Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 116):
Here are some more stats:

> 94 788s delivered to date
> 1 Broken in LHR (Ethiopian)
> 5 Haven't Entered into Service Yet (1 for each of LAN, Air India, China Southern, Qantas, Royal Brunei)
> Which leaves 88 "Active" 788s

Of those 88, 5 have not flown for more than 48 hours = 6%
> ANA JA-801A (hasn't flown in more than a week)
> Qatar A7-BCK (hasn't flown since 9-Oct)
> LOT SP-LRA (hasn't flown since 7-Oct)
> Thomson G-TUIA (hasn't flown in more than a week)
> Norwegian EI-LNB (hasn't flown in more than a week)

Based on these stats and way of calculation, reliability could be estimated at 94%. Now this is based on a moment in time (now) rather than an average over time. Nonetheless, I'm convinced neither Boeing or its customers are happy with that statistic.

Revealing stats. At least proves there is no smoke without a fire.

Quoting billreid (Reply 112):
Last I heard it performs quite well after getting off the ground as do most airplanes. Generally planes are considered not to be performing well if they are on the ground.

Even after it gets off the ground, there number if inflight turnbacks / diversions is way too high. But yes, when it does get from A to B on time, it does so saving 20% of fuel, which is why airlines and all of us "bashers" too are hoping like heck that its performance stabilises.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-10-12 03:22:49 and read 28519 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 109):
Unfortunately until this beautiful bird improves her reliability , we are going to continue seeing these threads.

We might see them a lot longer then that. The A380, which never had these reliability issues is continuing to attract mostly negative threads here at A-net. Even this week we had 4 separate threads running at one time. But that is usually only bashing without any base to found it on, just because it is the A380. Here the basis is clear, the B787 is up till now relatively week in reliability, sadly enough.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 111):
I'm not sure why you see this as bashing. This thread is about the performance of the 787 and an United bird going tech is 100% on-topic.

It is.   .

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 116):
Now this is based on a moment in time (now) rather than an average over time. Nonetheless, I'm convinced neither Boeing or its customers are happy with that statistic.

I am sure they are not, and I am also sure they are working hard to improve their product, also the ones already delivered. But many customers are expressing being quite unhappy with the way the problems are resolved and/of how they are financially compensated for these issues. That is sure to debate here without calling it bashing, because it isn't bashing.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: darksnowynight
Posted 2013-10-12 03:38:14 and read 28446 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 121):
The A380, which never had these reliability issues is continuing to attract mostly negative threads here at A-net.

Not issues like these, no. I remember more than a few gate calls (mostly no-relief messages coming up and requiring the whole plane to be powered down to reset). What I do not remember are three year in service delays, followed by a whole first flight of overweight units, followed by four month battery groundings, followed by spontaneous auto-torchings while powered down, followed by problems with actual longhaul reliability... And the beat goes on.

The 380 gets attention because it's not what people thought it was. The 787 gets attention because there are genuine problems with it. Which (or both) of those quals out as "bashing" is very subjective to be sure.

The only thing I can say conclusively is that neither aircraft will be the game-changers (unless you're EK) they were sold as and as long as that's the case, they will get attention.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-10-12 04:50:06 and read 28364 times.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 84):
Anybody care to crunch nbrs on 787 reliability between the delivered
frames that went thru post-factory re-work versus the later builds that
didn't require rework?
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 121):
Here the basis is clear, the B787 is up till now relatively week in reliability, sadly enough.

And I think the open question by Sooner787 is a really good one, hopefully it does not have to be moved to the technical forum for participation, funny how I never noticed that type question before, too many threads saying the same things.

My bigger concern is the parts issue, time on frame before failure is too low, I wonder if it is deliberate.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-10-12 04:52:55 and read 28387 times.

Quoting darksnowynight (Reply 122):
The only thing I can say conclusively is that neither aircraft will be the game-changers (unless you're EK) they were sold as and as long as that's the case, they will get attention.

I think that is a very fair comment which sums it up quite nicely.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-10-13 17:15:07 and read 28010 times.

Today's UA199 PVG-LAX operated by N20904 apparently returned to PVG:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N20904

UA lists it as cancelled, don't know what the issue was.

edit: UA has rescheduled departure for Monday as UA7961

[Edited 2013-10-13 17:22:42]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-13 17:25:02 and read 27988 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 125):
UA lists it as cancelled, don't know what the issue was.

Ok, let me say it before the usual suspects: "Why don't you tell us which other aircraft also had turnbacks today"?   

In all seriousness though, unless this turnback was not related to the aircraft in any way (like for instance, if it was to offload a drunk and the crew then timed out), this is not good.

For perspective, one aircraft-driven turnback for a 787 is equal to ~11 for 777s (in terms of proportion). I don't think 777s are turning back and going AOG at anything close to that rate.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-10-13 17:54:59 and read 28237 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 126):
if it was to offload a drunk and the crew then timed out

Anything's possible. Whatever the reason was, it can't have been very serious as they would otherwise have diverted.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-10-13 17:59:36 and read 28264 times.

Flight stats has a 20% excessive delay and 6% cancellation of LAX PVG for UA

This flight has an average delay of 56 minutes with a standard deviation of 79.13 minutes. Statistically, when taking into consideration sample size, standard deviation, and mean, this flight has delay performance characteristics better than 0% of other flights.

This position is far worse than the AA stats on the route with half the excessive delays and cancellations.


PVG is a notoriously delay prone airport.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: glbltrvlr
Posted 2013-10-13 20:07:11 and read 28013 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 128):
This flight has an average delay of 56 minutes with a standard deviation of 79.13 minutes.

Is that based on departure time or arrival time? Having just flown that flight, I noticed that although the departure times were delayed, the week I traveled, most of the flights arrived within 15 minutes of their scheduled arrival, which suggests that UA may be trying to meet an arrival slot.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-10-13 20:17:08 and read 28011 times.

That's based on departure time. PVG is notorious for delays, so schedules are totally padded.

The UA departure time isn't in the craziest period, but early afternoon in PVG for departures is a total disaster - flight holds for 30mins to one hour are commonplace and since the ATC don't bother the crew informing until doors are closed and ready for pushback, a common frustration.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2013-10-13 20:46:37 and read 27931 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 126):
In all seriousness though, unless this turnback was not related to the aircraft in any way (like for instance, if it was to offload a drunk and the crew then timed out), this is not good.

Isn't "IF" a lovely word? It opens up so many possibilities.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 126):
For perspective, one aircraft-driven turnback for a 787 is equal to ~11 for 777s (in terms of proportion). I don't think 777s are turning back and going AOG at anything close to that rate.

Proportion is great, but I'd hope you'd agree somewhat meaningless given fleet size, age, etc.

-Dave

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-10-13 21:49:09 and read 27884 times.

It appears JA826J got stuck at DME Sunday due to "failure of one of four elevators" per JAL.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JA826J

Departure was rescheduled to the following day.
JA825J operating as JL8191 en route to pick up the pax?
http://www.flightradar24.com/JAL8191

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-14 00:43:25 and read 27638 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 131):
Proportion is great, but I'd hope you'd agree somewhat meaningless given fleet size, age, etc.

How so, Dave? I think having approx 100 frames flying now makes the 787 fleet size large enough to not have huge deviations based on scale relative to the 777 wen using a probability-based approach. And age should be working in the 787's favour, not against it.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-10-14 01:23:06 and read 27524 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 130):
That's based on departure time. PVG is notorious for delays, so schedules are totally padded.

So how is PVG so delayed? Is it because it's so cramped?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Blueshamu330s
Posted 2013-10-14 02:51:57 and read 27399 times.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 116):
> Thomson G-TUIA (hasn't flown in more than a week)

Having crew rest fitted.

Rgds

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-10-14 03:12:17 and read 27357 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 134):

Welcome to China!

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-10-14 06:37:01 and read 27112 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 136):
Welcome to China!

Glad I live in Japan           
Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 135):
Having crew rest fitted.

Explains the other thread

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-10-14 06:47:57 and read 27093 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 134):
So how is PVG so delayed? Is it because it's so cramped?

Sorry for the crap response earlier... I was on a ferry.

Now for the proper answer..

Meanwhile, airspace is limited by the People's Liberation Army, which controls most of the skies above China. In a 2011 interview with state news media, Li Jiaxiang, head of the Civil Aviation Administration of China, revealed that the military controlled 80% of the airspace. In the U.S., roughly 17% is federally controlled.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep...a-fg-china-airline-delays-20130916

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SelseyBill
Posted 2013-10-14 06:54:04 and read 27111 times.

Quoting copter808 (Reply 114):
But why do we have to bring up every little thing?

Because Boeing called it the 'Dream)liner'.

Every little experience people have with this aircraft that is not dream worthy, attracts derision. It was almost asking for trouble.

Its a bit like calling a vacation company 'Perfect Holidays'.........

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ontime
Posted 2013-10-14 14:23:57 and read 26687 times.

Both 787 flights from LAX today (UA 32 to NRT and UA 198 to PVG) are delayed again for hours for "aircraft servicing".

UA must be taking quite a beating in terms of customers on these routes defecting to other carriers. When these were 777's (from the "old" United), these were incredibly reliable flights; now, extended delays have become awfully common.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-14 14:54:38 and read 26489 times.

Quoting Reply 140):
Both 787 flights from LAX today (UA 32 to NRT and UA 198 to PVG) are delayed again for hours for "aircraft servicing".

Delayed 3 hours and 2 hours respectively, it appears.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2013-10-14 16:56:32 and read 26321 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 133):
How so, Dave?

The 787 has about 93-ish frames active. They are very new overall and some are brand new. The oldest is only a few years old. Comparing them to a fleet of many hundreds that have been flying since 1995 is not quite a fair comparison. I wouldn't discount it completely of course, but it's not like comparing the 777 to the A330.

I'm sure, though, that the 787 would compare poorly to the A380, which I think would be a much better comparison.

-Dave

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ontime
Posted 2013-10-14 17:52:54 and read 26206 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 141):
Delayed 3 hours and 2 hours respectively, it appears.

UA 198 is now at more like a 5-hour delay. I guess they gave up on fixing the scheduled aircraft and are awaiting the arrival of the next 787 from Asia.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-15 00:49:44 and read 25850 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 142):

I'm sure, though, that the 787 would compare poorly to the A380, which I think would be a much better comparison.

-Dave

I agree with that. Similar number of frames in service too (89 vs 111).

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-27 11:20:55 and read 24894 times.

As per replies #20 and 24 in this thread Indian Aviation Thread Part 105 (by ojas Oct 13 2013 in Civil Aviation) , Air India has been having a tough couple of days with its 787s... 3 to 4 of them are currently AOG including an inflight turn-back.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-10-27 11:32:20 and read 24907 times.

And yesterday, a Norwegian 787 went tech for 19 hours due to brake problems.

http://www.nrk.no/norge/norwegians-dreamliner-pa-bakken-1.11321162

The aircraft involved was EI-LNB

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-10-27 12:56:31 and read 24654 times.

Does anyone know if UA cycled their 787s through DEN these past few weeks for hardware updates or was it routine maintenance? They started with ship 906 and cycled through to 901, taking each off the schedule for 4-8 days. Things don't seem to have improved at UA this month, as this week alone I believe they had 2 substitutions with associated delays and another 2 servicing delays in excess of 3 hours.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Johnwaynebobbet
Posted 2013-10-28 11:16:37 and read 23866 times.

Seems BA might have had a few issues recently?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-10-28 11:48:50 and read 23715 times.

And last week flight 142 from IAH to LOS was delayed between 3-4 hours, 2 days in a row! I don't remember if it was Wednesday and Thursday or Thursday and Friday's flights.

One was due to the aircraft servicing situation in NRT making it late to DEN and then late to IAH and then to LOS late.
The second day it arrived on-time from NRT to DEN to IAH, and whatever mechanical problem was discovered in IAH. What a nightmare. At least UA has no competition on IAH-LOS.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: kevinkevin
Posted 2013-10-28 12:24:37 and read 23617 times.

Has TOM had many problems with their 787s. Every time I check FR24 their always up in the air flying back and forth SFB CUN etc

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-10-28 15:14:04 and read 23405 times.

Today's UA33 NRT-LAX departed around 4 hours late as the inbound apparently had an issue on approach into NRT.
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20131028-00000122-jij-soci

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 148):
Seems BA might have had a few issues recently?


Apparently BA99 LHR-YYZ was cancelled yesterday. Doesn't seem to have been weather related, maybe someone can confirm the nature of the problem.

edit to add:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 149):
And last week flight 142 from IAH to LOS was delayed between 3-4 hours, 2 days in a row!

Today's UA143 LOS-IAH is currently showing a 2.5hr aircraft servicing delay as well.


[Edited 2013-10-28 15:49:14]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Johnwaynebobbet
Posted 2013-10-28 16:45:58 and read 23549 times.

Was it just not just delayed 24hrs.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-10-28 16:59:01 and read 23502 times.

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 152):
Was it just not just delayed 24hrs.

Technically, yes. My bad.

Quoting flood (Reply 151):
Today's UA143 LOS-IAH is currently showing a 2.5hr aircraft servicing delay

Status updated to cancelled.

[Edited 2013-10-28 17:27:48]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-28 23:34:23 and read 23289 times.

According to AvHerald, AI's 787 VT-ANN was treated as a "semi-emergency" on Oct 27 when it turned back to MEL.

"An Air India Boeing 787-800, registration VT-ANN performing flight AI-311 from Melbourne,VI (Australia) to Delhi (India), was enroute at FL360 about 370nm north of Melbourne and 150nm norteast of Adelaide,SA (Australia) when the aircraft descended to FL350 and turned around due to a flaperon problem. In the meantime Melbourne tower informed workers on runway 27, that the runway would be needed for a "semi-emergency" coming in.

Based on all of the incidents, delays, and cancels discussed in the last few posts across airlines, it has not been a good few days at all for the 787 in terms of reliability.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Unflug
Posted 2013-10-28 23:48:52 and read 23196 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 154):
Based on all of the incidents, delays, and cancels discussed in the last few posts across airlines, it has not been a good few days at all for the 787 in terms of reliability.

At first glance, yes. But the posts only show the delays and not the departures that were on time. Looking at the delays only we don't know much about dispatch reliability...

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-10-29 00:24:38 and read 23114 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 153):
Status updated to cancelled.


A new section for LOS-IAH was created today leaving at 2:00 PM in LOS to accomodate the cancelled flight last night. Obviously the need to get the plane back to IAH.

I wonder if UA gets sick of all the 787 mx issues.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-10-29 02:11:03 and read 22908 times.

Quoting Unflug (Reply 155):

I don't know Unflug... if one airline alone has 3 to 4 of its 787s (of a fleet of 9) AOG at the same time while others with small fleets are having multihour delays and cancelling flights, I would think DR in this period couldn't be that good.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-11-05 12:13:13 and read 22206 times.

A LOT 787 suffered a power failure although it was nothing serious.

Story (you'll have to translate the article):
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomos...y_w_Bangkoku___Drobny_problem.html

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-11-05 17:09:50 and read 21840 times.

Air India suffering some new glitches, but strongly defending the 787. An interesting read. Food-for-thought for many who curiously have impression that Air India has been somehow unfairly bad-mouthing the aircraft in an effort to "extort" money from Boeing.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...i-airport/articleshow/25269034.cms

Excerpt:

"A senior Air India pilot, who refused to be named, said the glitches were "teething problems as the aircraft has been bought almost off the designing board. The plane is safe and sound." "

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-11-05 20:14:35 and read 21666 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 159):

Air India suffering some new glitches, but strongly defending the 787. An interesting read. Food-for-thought for many who curiously have impression that Air India has been somehow unfairly bad-mouthing the aircraft in an effort to "extort" money from Boeing.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...i-airport/articleshow/25269034.cms

It is obvious the all electric brakes are one of the problem makers. I know the Cseries have them two but BBD says they learned from having them on one of their Bizjets and they should be OK from a reliability point now, what about Boeing and it's supplier which I think is Goodrich, have they made it before?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-11-05 20:22:02 and read 21646 times.

I am a fan of discussing all in-service 787 issues in this thread instead of a new one every week. There will be other comments. Hopefully we can keep them all contained here. It does appear that the electric panel and the breaks are common issues.


In terms of fuel burn Leeham news has this comment regarding fuel burn:

"As readers also know, Boeing promotes its 787 as being 20%-25% more fuel efficient than today’s airplanes. With the (also) never-ending prospect of Airbus proceeding with an A330neo, the question arises over what the delta is between the A330 and the 787. We asked a fleet planner. The answer: 10% in favor of the 787, a gap that an A330neo could narrow considerably (but be unlikely to close altogether) with new engines and sharklets. So how about that 20%-25%? These figures compare with the 767 and A340 respectively, the fleet planner tells us."

http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/

tortugamon

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-11-05 21:31:53 and read 21522 times.

Another cracked windscreen this week, this time on Air India.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...g-in-melbourne-20131105-2wxvx.html

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Aircellist
Posted 2013-11-05 21:59:46 and read 21404 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 162):
Another cracked windscreen this week, this time on Air India.

Just curious: how much do these cost? (if somebody knows…)

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: zotan
Posted 2013-11-05 22:21:42 and read 21342 times.

A330neo will not happen. You can get same result by just heavily discounting current A330s which is exactly what Airbus is doing.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-11-06 01:17:28 and read 21130 times.

Five days into the month and it appears UA has already encountered two ~2hr aircraft servicing delays, two aircraft changes with subsequent 30m / 4.5hr delays, and a return to gate with ~4hr delay. This over about 50 scheduled flights.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-11-06 03:16:49 and read 20944 times.

Quoting zotan (Reply 164):

In my opinion, when the 787 and A350 backlog drops to reasonable levels (~3 years) the A330 sales will decline dramatically and discounting wont help.

I would like to see an A330 'Next Generation': new wing, new engines, new systems based on A350. Skip the A358 and let A330 handle less than 300 seats and the a350 300-400 seats. This is predicated on the A350-1100 being viable.

tortugamon

edit: typo

[Edited 2013-11-06 04:04:36]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-11-06 03:18:06 and read 20955 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 166):
U would like to see an A330 'Next Generation': new wing, new engines, new systems based on A350. Skip the A358 and let A330 handle less than 300 seats

The issue is that such an airframe will never be able to match the fuel burn of the A358.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: XT6Wagon
Posted 2013-11-06 03:21:20 and read 20903 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 166):
In my opinion, when the 787 and A350 backlog drops to reasonable levels (~3 years) the A330 sales will decline dramatically and discounting wont help.

The A332F sales should take up the slack unless the problems of the cargo market continue. Not at this pace, but a respectable level.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: bobdino
Posted 2013-11-06 03:21:35 and read 20961 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 165):
Five days into the month and it appears UA has already encountered two ~2hr aircraft servicing delays, two aircraft changes with subsequent 30m / 4.5hr delays, and a return to gate with ~4hr delay. This over about 50 scheduled flights.

So down to about 90% dispatch reliability. Ouch.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EBGflyer
Posted 2013-11-06 04:02:23 and read 20869 times.

I saw a QR 788 (probably A7-BCK) parked remotely in CPH yesterday November 5. It seems CPH-DOH on November 3 was cancelled, which means it has been on the ground for around 2 days as it appears it has been ferried back to Doha sometime during November 5. Funny how misleading the information is on FlightRadar/Flightaware. Could they be trying to cover up the disruptions?

The QR flight DOH-CPH-DOH has been operated by a 77W on November 4+5 instead.

Anybody knows what caused the cancellation/grounding?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-11-06 04:16:21 and read 20813 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 167):
The issue is that such an airframe will never be able to match the fuel burn of the A358.

I am not entirely sure of that. If engine OEMs have until 2022ish, and assuming 777x/737NG type of overall I think it is very reasonable. If an A330 is only 10% different now, this much of a change has to close that gap. If it is just a NEO I think you are right.

If Airbus proceeds with the A350-1100 its hard to see how they can dedicate production slots to an A358 so I don't think it matters that it has the potential to be more efficient. I bet the A330 supply chain could do it.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 168):
The A332F sales should take up the slack unless the problems of the cargo market continue. Not at this pace, but a respectable level.

They have been marketing the aircraft since 2001 (selling ~43) and although the recent cargo market is bad, I am not sure if an immediate rebound will do much for the model. I am more interested in the A359F if we ever see it.

tortugamon

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-11-06 05:29:49 and read 20663 times.

Dreamliner's technical dispatch reliability in AI - on-time performance - is under 98% when it should be closer to 99.5%. "We have been flying the plane since last September but have not been able to get much experience on it as Dreamliners were grounded for four to five months," the official said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...eamliners/articleshow/25276758.cms

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: jox
Posted 2013-11-06 23:27:58 and read 20056 times.

DY7006 is today expected to arrive at ARN around 10,5 hours late, and thus estimated to depart to BKK (as DY7205) almost 10 hours late.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EBGflyer
Posted 2013-11-06 23:57:48 and read 19976 times.

Quoting jox (Reply 173):
DY7006 is today expected to arrive at ARN around 10,5 hours late, and thus estimated to depart to BKK (as DY7205) almost 10 hours late.

They're improving!

DY7006 New York 21:30 11:15 +1 Forsinket (Ny tid: 19:55) - 8 Hours and 40 Mins late
DY7205 Bangkok 14:20 06:35 +1 Forsinket (Ny tid: 22:55) - 8 Hours and 35 Mins late

However, only catching up 5 minutes on the ground.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-11-07 00:02:48 and read 19957 times.

The delay had originated on prior leg DY7005 ARN-JFK. Originally scheduled 17:35, departed around 02:00.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/E...B/history/20131107/0059Z/ESSA/KJFK

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: RedChili
Posted 2013-11-07 00:16:20 and read 19923 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 146):
And yesterday, a Norwegian 787 went tech for 19 hours due to brake problems.

http://www.nrk.no/norge/norwegians-dreamliner-pa-bakken-1.11321162

The aircraft involved was EI-LNB

The plane had techincal problems before an OSL-BKK flight. The return flight was switched with ARN, so that BKK-ARN the following day was also some 20 hours delayed.

Quoting jox (Reply 173):
DY7006 is today expected to arrive at ARN around 10,5 hours late, and thus estimated to depart to BKK (as DY7205) almost 10 hours late.

This is EI-LNB again. It was delayed from ARN yesterday. It was supposed to leave at 17:35, but according to the ARN web site, it departed at 2:35 in the morning, i.e. 9 hours delayed.

It seems that it will take them a few days to catch up with this delay because of tight turn-around times.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: RedChili
Posted 2013-11-07 11:08:36 and read 19942 times.

EI-LNB was supposed to arrive at ARN from JFK at 11:15 but instead arrived at ARN at 19:30, 8:15 late. It was supposed to leave for BKK at 14:20, but the EDT is now at 20:45.

EI-LNA arrived at OSL from BKK at 15:24, only 29 minutes late. It left on-time for JFK at 18:00.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2013-11-07 11:49:45 and read 19831 times.

Reading this thread leads me to believe that Boeing had better get their act together very quickly, and solve the problems that so many of the 787's are having. I do not see how any airline can tolerate the kind of delays that seem to be happening on a far to regular basis. I say this as a diehard Boeing fan who genuinely believed that the 787 would be a game changer. Perhaps it still is, but not in the way I had hoped. If these delays continue airlines are going to start avoiding it in droves. The A330 may not be as economical, but it will dispatch with reliability.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: blrsea
Posted 2013-11-07 12:04:28 and read 19826 times.

Not recent, but came across this twitter feed today. Says that AI's 787 suffered structural damage in the wing due to a burst hydraulic line. This was in October though.

Does anyone have any more info on this issue? Was this true?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2013-11-07 12:17:06 and read 19778 times.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 176):
This is EI-LNB again. It was delayed from ARN yesterday. It was supposed to leave at 17:35, but according to the ARN web site, it departed at 2:35 in the morning, i.e. 9 hours delayed.

Isn't this the one that Boeing "took back" and devoted tender loving care to making sure that everything worked! It was away for some time for this. Am I now being told that after all this maintenance and care, it's still suffering?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-11-07 12:40:23 and read 19668 times.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 180):
Isn't this the one that Boeing "took back" and devoted TLC to making everything work! It was away for some time for this. Am I now being told that after all this maintenance and care, it's still suffering?

Yes. And Boeing has been responsible for the service all the time.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-11-07 12:51:49 and read 19618 times.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 181):
Isn't this the one that Boeing "took back" and devoted tender loving care to making sure that everything worked! It was away for some time for this. Am I now being told that after all this maintenance and care, it's still suffering?

Yes, and it's the second issue (which I know of) the aircraft encountered after its last maintenance.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: WarpSpeed
Posted 2013-11-07 13:20:35 and read 19485 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 178):
Reading this thread leads me to believe that Boeing had better get their act together very quickly, and solve the problems that so many of the 787's are having.

and, if not, with each new frame delivered, the overall problem will compound and require even more resources to address.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-11-07 13:48:11 and read 19463 times.

It looks like ANA has smoothed things out flying 2650 flights since the start of October with only 6 "issues" (per their definition). That works out to 99.77%. They may have a few airplanes standing by to fill in but they certainly don't have them parked in Munich, Frankfurt, Seattle, San Jose etc to cover for an airplane down for maintenance.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2013-11-07 13:57:56 and read 19464 times.

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 183):

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 178):
Reading this thread leads me to believe that Boeing had better get their act together very quickly, and solve the problems that so many of the 787's are having.

and, if not, with each new frame delivered, the overall problem will compound and require even more resources to address.

Precisely. That is about the best way I know to destroy a company.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 184):

It looks like ANA has smoothed things out flying 2650 flights since the start of October with only 6 "issues" (per their definition). That works out to 99.77%. They may have a few airplanes standing by to fill in but they certainly don't have them parked in Munich, Frankfurt, Seattle, San Jose etc to cover for an airplane down for maintenance

This is very good news. Now if all of the other 787 operators can achieve comparable results, we can all stop worrying. I would be interested to know if ANA mechanics have learned the proper care and feeding of the bird, or whether Boeing has fixed all of the glitches in their planes, or a combination of the two. My suspicion is that it is a combination, but more of the former. If one airline is having very good results, and others are not, my devious mind is likely to come to the conclusion that the culprit must be what is different, and that is the people flying and maintaining the thing. But the responsibility still falls on Boeing to teach all the operators how to keep their birds in the air.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: wingman
Posted 2013-11-07 14:02:43 and read 19430 times.

It'd be nice if the people that devote so much of their time and energy reporting every single 787 delay or cancellation would keep a running dispatch rate calculation for the global fleet and by airline. It seems the only way to keep things in honest perspective vs. the gleeful weekly posts whenever incidents occur.

One can only hope this same group will keep a running thread documenting every single 350 delay in it's first two years of service.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-11-07 14:08:48 and read 19452 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 185):
Now if all of the other 787 operators can achieve comparable results

ANA's dispatch reliability is based on a departure within 2 hours while the rest of the world uses 15 minutes. I would be interesting to know how many of those ANA birds are departing within 15 minutes.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2013-11-07 14:51:26 and read 19423 times.

Quoting wingman (Reply 186):
One can only hope this same group will keep a running thread documenting every single 350 delay in it's first two years of service.

As gloomy of a thread this is to try to get through, the reality is that the A350 - IMHO - will not have the same level of challenges and there will be far, far fewer newsworthy events to comment on here.

-Dave

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-11-07 15:10:11 and read 19338 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 187):
ANA's dispatch reliability is based on a departure within 2 hours while the rest of the world uses 15 minutes. I would be interesting to know how many of those ANA birds are departing within 15 minutes


Nobody including ANA said this was their dispatch reliability, it's what both ANA and JAL are using to provide information to the public about how their 787's are performing. I don't see UAL, BAB, QTR or anybody else providing any data to the public. McN himself recently said the "dispatch reliability" for the fleet was about 97% -- not good -- but he also didn't tell us what parameters Boeing is using.

And to add some more good news (not much on this site) all 7 of UAL's 787's are airborne right now, 5 long haul -- 2 short haul.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2013-11-07 15:18:36 and read 19323 times.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 179):
Not recent, but came across this twitter feed today. Says that AI's 787 suffered structural damage in the wing due to a burst hydraulic line. This was in October though.

That was not an in-service 787; it was one of the three undelivered airplanes (VT-ANA, ANB, ANC) currently in Boeing's Everett Modification Center for change incorporation. There has been zero information on the alleged incident since Matt's tweet. We don't know which of the three airplanes it was or whether the damage was severe enough to delay the completion of change incorporation.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: blrsea
Posted 2013-11-08 08:57:11 and read 18875 times.

AI reports around 98.2% dispatch rate, and utilizes it around 13 hours per day as per this report.

AI using Dreamliners for more hours than global average

Quote:
...
Regarding aircraft utilisation, Mr. Nandan said Air India was using the B-787s for an average of 13.5 hours daily as against an average of nine hours globally by airlines.
...
No passenger booked to fly on a Dreamliner cancelled the booking and travel agents were in fact getting more passengers for these Boeing 787s, he said, adding the cost of operating this aircraft was 30 per cent less than other aircraft in Air India fleet.
...
The dispatch reliability of the Dreamliners was much higher at 98.2 per cent compared to the industry average of 97 per cent and was expected to go up to 99 per cent soon.

Dispatch reliability is the percentage of flights that depart within 15 minutes of the scheduled departure time.
...

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-11-08 10:42:14 and read 18659 times.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 191):
No passenger booked to fly on a Dreamliner cancelled the booking and travel agents were in fact getting more passengers for these Boeing 787s, he said, adding the cost of operating this aircraft was 30 per cent less than other aircraft in Air India fleet.

Based on fare searches for business class for LHR-DEL/DEL-LHR (I have flown this route twice in the last 4 weeks on AI, and did the fare searches myself), the 77W flights on AI are almost always priced higher than the 787 flights. Maybe this has to do with flight timings, but it suggests load factors on the 787s are lower than on the 77Ws.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-11-08 10:52:01 and read 18623 times.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 191):

Thanks for the post. Good to see some good news here. I assume everyone wants to see the 787 fleet where it belongs; in the air flying and making money for its airlines.

tortugamon

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-11-08 16:36:10 and read 18336 times.

Say whatever you want, flew on first two frames of LO and I dont complain... Airbusses never go technical or delayed on this website it seems... As European, give me 787 anytime above the likes of 343... Cheers, rant over....

Go Boeing and 380.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-11-08 18:07:40 and read 18159 times.

All five GUN (China Southern) airplanes are airborne at the same time.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-11-08 18:58:07 and read 18076 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 192):
Based on fare searches for business class for LHR-DEL/DEL-LHR (I have flown this route twice in the last 4 weeks on AI, and did the fare searches myself), the 77W flights on AI are almost always priced higher than the 787 flights.

While I appreciate the research, doing a fare search for a 4 week time frame is hardly conclusive evidence of really anything. But I am jealous you got to ride on the 787 twice in last 4 weeks  

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-11-09 12:45:22 and read 17657 times.

The Air India 787 fleet will undergo software upgrades which should increase the reliability.

Quote:
MUMBAI: National carrier Air India plans to ground all its Dreamliner 787 planes in a phased manner, starting end of this month, to replace parts and upgrade software, in a bid to resolve issues the plane has been recently facing. "Boeing has put out certain service bulletins which the airline will implement. This is not mandatory. The airline is doing it on its own to increase reliability of the aircraft," said a source close to the development.

Story:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...-software/articleshow/25485667.cms

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-11-11 02:44:05 and read 16907 times.

A JAL 787 returns to Helsinki after a battery fault indication.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...r-battery-fault-indication-392794/

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-11-14 02:48:06 and read 16088 times.

Boeing Simplifies 787 Software To Improve Reliability:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_11_14_2013_p0-636703.xml

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-11-14 05:58:31 and read 15562 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 199):
Boeing Simplifies 787 Software To Improve Reliability:

This sounds promising. I am sure it is not a silver bullet but every little bit helps. Hopefully the -9 does not have the same reliability concerns as the -8.

tortugamon

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-11-14 06:15:43 and read 15534 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 200):
Hopefully the -9 does not have the same reliability concerns as the -8.

I would assume a lot of the lessons learned on the B787-8 will lead to improvements on the B787-9. So I don't expect the same level of problems on the B787-9 as we sadly enough have seen on the B787-8.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-11-14 07:54:36 and read 16037 times.

A few recent snags were 1.Pack issues, 2.Dropped out Lower fuselage panel, 3.Cracked Windshield to name a few.....Not quite dramatic like the Battery fire or Galley fire though.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2013-11-14 09:00:01 and read 15761 times.

Yesterday I photographed a QR 787 at the remote stands today by the Lufthansa Cargo ramp in FRA. Any idea why it is down there? I wasn't aware the stopover was that long that it would be repositioned to a remote stand...? i couldn't make out any registration from the far end of the airfield...

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: U271437
Posted 2013-11-15 12:29:31 and read 15040 times.

A rare glimpse into the 787 cockpit in flight: http://youtu.be/Af0mB_ownMU

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-11-15 13:18:23 and read 14837 times.

UA flight 142 diverted to MIA and was a couple hours late into LOS 2 nights ago. I wonder if it was another mechanical.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-11-15 14:04:45 and read 14669 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 205):
UA flight 142 diverted to MIA and was a couple hours late into LOS 2 nights ago. I wonder if it was another mechanical.

I'll venture to guess it was medical as they barely spent an hour at the gate in MIA. They still can't seem to catch a break though as just today UA199 PVG-LAX was cancelled after a ~4hr delay.

JAL had two disruptions on the 15th, per their pdf:

JL65 SAN-NRT: "During flight, the navigation computer failed. The airplane landed safely at Tokyo (Narita). But the visibility worsened at landing, so the pilot, according to the regulations, declared an "emergency" which gives the priority for the air traffic control."

JL749 NRT-DEL: "During flight, the sign which indicates the failure of the fuel filter for the left engine was displayed, so it was decided to return to Tokyo (Narita) for the maintenance activities. The airplane landed safely approx. 4 hour later after takeoff."

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-11-15 14:48:29 and read 14468 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 206):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 205):UA flight 142 diverted to MIA and was a couple hours late into LOS 2 nights ago. I wonder if it was another mechanical.

I'll venture to guess it was medical as they barely spent an hour at the gate in MIA. They still can't seem to catch a break though as just today UA199 PVG-LAX was cancelled after a ~4hr delay.

Probably right on flight 142. Yes, and there are two flights today (at least it's now Saturday in my time zone) on UA from PVG to LAX as a result. What a pain.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-11-15 16:52:04 and read 14225 times.

Let's look at the brighter side:

Since the 1st of October thru the 14th of November ANA has flown 3060 flights averaging 68 flights a day with only 6 "issues" (per their definition) -- 99.8% (before you jump on me this number is not a dispatch reliability number) -- and there have been "zero" issues in the last 20 days. Sounds pretty good to me!!!!!!

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: DTW2HYD
Posted 2013-11-15 17:26:30 and read 14117 times.

Last week AI reported their B787 fleet had DR of 98.2% with 13.5 hours usage/day.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news...ours-than-global-average/1192524/0

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-11-15 18:27:49 and read 13977 times.

Dispatch reliability tells us out of every 100 times the aircraft is positioned ready for departure, how many times is was delayed more than 15 minutes or cancelled due to technical issues with the aircraft.

It says nothing about how many glitches are encountered after departure, how many diversions may have taken place, and how long the aircraft takes to fix before it is ready for the next departure (and therefore how many cancellations the airline has to take while it is AOG).

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: mham001
Posted 2013-11-15 20:32:25 and read 13796 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 210):
Dispatch reliability tells us out of every 100 times the aircraft is positioned ready for departure, how many times is was delayed more than 15 minutes or cancelled due to technical issues with the aircraft.

It says nothing about how many glitches are encountered after departure, how many diversions may have taken place, and how long the aircraft takes to fix before it is ready for the next departure (and therefore how many cancellations the airline has to take while it is AOG).

It doesn't do that for any other plane either. What's your point? We need a new metric to fit your agenda?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-11-16 01:37:05 and read 13491 times.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 211):
It doesn't do that for any other plane either. What's your point? We need a new metric to fit your agenda?

1. I have no agenda. 2. The point is clear: Dispatch reliability does not in any way measure the disruption or "pain" caused when an aircraft goes tech, regardless of type of aircraft, so no point talking about it.

No new metric needed. There are several good ones out there already, such as % of schedule flown, planned vs actual utilization, completion factor, average length of AOGs, and on-time performance inclusive of cancellations. Dispatch reliability is not one of them.

Cheers.

[Edited 2013-11-16 01:52:52]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-11-16 03:38:56 and read 13321 times.

Boeing Targets 777 Reliability Levels For 787 in 'Six Months':

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....xml%2Fawx_11_16_2013_p0-637576.xml

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Kengo
Posted 2013-11-16 16:38:54 and read 12881 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 213):
Boeing Targets 777 Reliability Levels For 787 in 'Six Months'

I do notice that there are fewer reports of issues pertaining to the 787, recently, but not sure if is due to the media losing interest or the 787's reliability is improving. Six months is still a long way to go but hopefully most teething issues will be tackled with the reliability improvement program.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: mham001
Posted 2013-11-16 17:34:43 and read 12721 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 213):
Boeing Targets 777 Reliability Levels For 787 in 'Six Months':

Thanks Karel. Lots of unanswered questions. What exactly do they mean by 'reliability'? How good is 777 reliability? What is 787 reliability? Where was 777 reliability at this stage of the program? What will the haters whine about if they succeed in achieving 777 reliability? I hope the reporters get a chance to follow up on this.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2013-11-16 17:47:42 and read 12707 times.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 215):
What exactly do they mean by 'reliability'? How good is 777 reliability? What is 787 reliability? Where was 777 reliability at this stage of the program?

My impression is that the 777 is extremely reliable, and has been from the start. It may have had a few teething issues, but nothing like the 787. But it was much more of an evolution from the earlier Boeing planes; the 787 has introduced many more radical innovations.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-11-16 18:37:16 and read 12641 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 212):
2. The point is clear: Dispatch reliability does not in any way measure the disruption or "pain" caused when an aircraft goes tech, regardless of type of aircraft, so no point talking about it.


  

Quoting mham001 (Reply 215):
How good is 777 reliability?


Per the Boeing Company the 777 has a DR of 99.3.
http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/777family/pf/pf_facts.page

But even the 777 wasn't a happy experience for UAL almost a year into their service.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...rchive/?date=19960306&slug=2317518

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-11-16 19:33:38 and read 12540 times.

The 777 reliability is the gold standard for long haul. It is truly fantastic news if this can be achieved by the end of Q2 next year.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: ferpe
Posted 2013-11-16 22:15:07 and read 12367 times.

One shall be aware that a large portion of the fault proneness of the 787 does not come from there actually being more things going wrong with the Dreamliner but rather the realiability survelliance systems being to fidgety, the so called nuisance warnings.

This was a problem on the 380 and is once again on the 787. Each system in the aircraft has a comprehensive start up test system and a survelliance system when running. It is checking a LOT of parameters from a lot of sensors, some which are there only for the surveillance system. Sensors are notorious for having tolerances and drifts in values and this gives warnings on parameters which are in reality OK or just a touch over the tolerance limit. The system is working fine despite the warning system triggering a fault.

So though a lot of the development effort and testing on a system level and then later on an aircraft level goes to checking that these system are functioning as they are designed. the operation you need to finetune their sensitivity with experience from real usage. The reality is most of the time your aircraft is fine but this is not something you can bet on as a crew, there could be a real fault behind the warning and there is not reasonable way to know.

The above is perhaps the largest factor that will benefit the A350 as it virtually inherited the debugged systems from the A380. The 787 did not have any donor aircraft in Boeings stable which was modern enough to have this luxury, hence everything starts over from new and this fine tuning of the surveillance systems takes time.

The bottom line is the 787 base reliability is better then it seems, just to get these damn warning lamps to stop screaming when they shouldn't  .

[Edited 2013-11-16 22:18:11]

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Johnwaynebobbet
Posted 2013-11-18 14:16:06 and read 11863 times.

Seems BA had a issue with one:

British Airways B787-8 G-ZBJC Toronto Technical Issue.
November 16, 2013
British Airways Boeing 787-8 G-ZBJC operating BA99 London Heathrow – Toronto suffered a total loss of the centre hydraulic system en route but continued to Toronto for a safe landing. The return BA98 has been delayed overnight.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-18 14:34:32 and read 11846 times.

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 220):
Seems BA had a issue with one:

British Airways B787-8 G-ZBJC Toronto Technical Issue.
November 16, 2013
British Airways Boeing 787-8 G-ZBJC operating BA99 London Heathrow – Toronto suffered a total loss of the centre hydraulic system en route but continued to Toronto for a safe landing. The return BA98 has been delayed overnight.

From Transport Canada daily occurence reports:

A British Airways Boeing 787-8 (BAW99) from London/ Heathrow (EGLL) to Toronto, ON (CYYZ) advised of a hydraulic failure and requested emergency vehicles on standby. No emergency declared. The aircraft landed on runway 15L at 0027Z without incident.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-12-01 09:54:36 and read 10935 times.

In the last 4 days (Nov 27-30) ANA has had 3 delays/1 cancellation on 2 airplanes due to "malfunction of the flight control system" -- I guess the new software can't come soon enough.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-12-01 11:24:34 and read 10634 times.

On the positive side, the JAL 787s into and out of SAN seem to be running fine. JAL had a hiccup around Nov. 5th and 15th, but otherwise the planes are departing within an hour of the scheduled times - I am assuming the short delays have more to do with operational issues such as departure slots rather than problems with the planes. The BA 777 has had a few hiccups also this past month, but it usually leaves within an hour of its scheduled departure. No news is - unfortunately no news - but I'm sure JAL and its customers are pleased.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-12-01 21:41:44 and read 9962 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 213):
Boeing Targets 777 Reliability Levels For 787 in 'Six Months':

I would love to see 777 and 787 dispatch reliability (in say 15 minute blocks) plotted against daily utilization. I suspect we would currently see two very different curves. But how different? That I do not know.


Lightsaber

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: justloveplanes
Posted 2013-12-01 23:04:23 and read 9814 times.

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 220):
British Airways B787-8 G-ZBJC Toronto Technical Issue.
November 16, 2013
British Airways Boeing 787-8 G-ZBJC operating BA99 London Heathrow – Toronto suffered a total loss of the centre hydraulic system en route but continued to Toronto for a safe landing. The return BA98 has been delayed overnight.

How many hydraulic systems / redundancy does the 787 have? Was there any degradative effect to the airplane other than diversion to a back up system?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-12-02 02:57:32 and read 9454 times.

Boeing starts updating software on Air India 787 fleet:

http://www.travelbizmonitor.com/air-...o-start-repair-work-tomorrow-22456

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-12-02 07:45:21 and read 9340 times.

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 225):
How many hydraulic systems / redundancy does the 787 have? Was there any degradative effect to the airplane other than diversion to a back up system?


There are three main hydraulic systems (L, R, C) + the RAT. With loss of the center system all the flight controls are fully functional (except for two spoilers), the flaps/slats deploy slower and you must drop the gear alternately -- there are some notes on the HYD PRESS SYS C checklist but really not that big a deal except for the clean up.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: iahcsr
Posted 2013-12-03 02:28:14 and read 8811 times.

An airline's newest 787 busted far from home and sat for a day waiting on a part to be flown in.
Can't say more then that...

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: StTim
Posted 2013-12-03 02:45:16 and read 8760 times.

Planes go tech all the time. New planes suffer teething issues. The A350 schedule most of us admire will fly 2500 hours in a year. Once flying I suspect every plane will do more than that per year so it is obvious that new issues will appear that did not in the test flying. Test flying is about making sure the frame is safe for commercial flying. Airbus are aiming for a very high level of maturity but faults will appear.

The question is not that one plane is stuck away from base for a while but the reliability and trend for departure relability stats that the airlines are interested in.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: flood
Posted 2013-12-03 03:16:57 and read 8645 times.

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 228):
An airline's newest 787 busted far from home and sat for a day waiting on a part to be flown in.
Can't say more then that...

I take it you're referring to N27908 which got stuck in Lagos.

During their Investor's Day conference, Compton apparently stated "the 787 is delivering everything from an efficiency point of view". It seems none of the journalists picked up on it to ask how it was delivering from a reliability standpoint.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-12-03 09:55:14 and read 8241 times.

Quoting StTim (Reply 229):
Planes go tech all the time. New planes suffer teething issues. The A350 schedule most of us admire will fly 2500 hours in a year. Once flying I suspect every plane will do more than that per year so it is obvious that new issues will appear that did not in the test flying. Test flying is about making sure the frame is safe for commercial flying. Airbus are aiming for a very high level of maturity but faults will appear.

The question is not that one plane is stuck away from base for a while but the reliability and trend for departure relability stats that the airlines are interested in.

The B 787 is now over two years in use, what time frame do you accept for "teething problems", three years, 5, 10?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Pygmalion
Posted 2013-12-03 11:49:22 and read 8108 times.

there are over 100 787's flying around now.and the fleet is growing. The number of reports of delays doesnt seem to be growing, a-net is just keeping it under a microscope.

What do you consider normal for dispatch reliability? 97%, 98%, 99%?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-12-03 11:53:09 and read 8052 times.

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 232):
What do you consider normal for dispatch reliability? 97%, 98%, 99%?

A320s/737s/A330s/777s/A380s have 99+%.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2013-12-03 14:02:16 and read 7847 times.

Rut Roh Shaggy:

"Boeing Everett Fire Dept just dispatched to stall 201 to check smoking APU on Jetstar 787 VH-VKB after returning from customer flight"
http://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/407991784795414528

tortugamon

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: justloveplanes
Posted 2013-12-03 23:13:28 and read 7428 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 227):
There are three main hydraulic systems (L, R, C) + the RAT. With loss of the center system all the flight controls are fully functional (except for two spoilers), the flaps/slats deploy slower and you must drop the gear alternately -- there are some notes on the HYD PRESS SYS C checklist but really not that big a deal except for the clean up.

Can the airplane operate on one hydraulic system? How does the RAT figure into hydraulics as a final safeguard?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-12-04 06:23:34 and read 7072 times.

Ethiopian Airlines says its 787 fleet is doing very well with a dispatch reliability of about 95%.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rlines-plans-for-more-787s-393769/

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-12-04 10:49:17 and read 6788 times.

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 235):
Can the airplane operate on one hydraulic system?


Yes -- all the main flight controls (aileron, flaperon, rudder, elevator) are powered by multiple hydraulic systems. The spoilers are all powered by a single hydraulic system, either L, R or C. The stabilizer is powered electrically. The TE and LE are powered by the C system and alternately electrically. On a single hydraulic system the airplane is still safely flyable, it just doesn't respond like it would with 2 or 3 hydraulic systems powered.

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 235):
How does the RAT figure into hydraulics as a final safeguard?


The simple answer is: With loss of all hydraulic systems the RAT deploys and provides hydraulic power to those flight controls normally powered by the Center system. Again the airplane is safely flyable but doesn't handle as it would with multiple hydraulic systems available.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-12-04 12:18:30 and read 6593 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 233):
A320s/737s/A330s/777s/A380s have 99+%.

99.6% and below is when vendors get hell.

I hope the latest software fix brings the 787 over 99.5%. That is where it should be now.


Lightsaber

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: by738
Posted 2013-12-04 13:08:26 and read 6441 times.

Saw the Ethiopian damaged 787s with its tail remounted again at LHR

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-12-04 14:32:44 and read 6241 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 234):

Does anyone else have any more information on this 787 Jetstar that had smoke coming from it's APU ?

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-12-04 15:31:30 and read 6113 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 240):
Does anyone else have any more information on this 787 Jetstar that had smoke coming from it's APU ?


Flew a C-3 (?) today. I'm guessing that's not what you're looking for though.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE216

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-12-04 15:36:29 and read 6087 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 241):

Actually it kind of answers the question to severity of the incident, which looks like a non-event. Thanks for the info.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-12-04 18:18:45 and read 5872 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 236):
Ethiopian Airlines says its 787 fleet is doing very well with a dispatch reliability of about 95%.

95% is doing well???  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

Have our expectations fallen that low?  

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: RedChili
Posted 2013-12-05 00:42:03 and read 5552 times.

Just to add some information about Norwegian's 787s, taken from the OSL web site, concerning arrivals in November:

DY7002 had 14 arrivals, with 85.7% being on-time.
DY7032 had one arrival, which was on-time.
DY7202 had 12 arrivals, with 25% being on-time.

In total, 59% of arrivals were on-time.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: StTim
Posted 2013-12-05 00:51:28 and read 5490 times.

On time is dependent on many factors - despatch reliability is a better indicator of frame performance.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-12-05 17:03:36 and read 5193 times.

Quoting StTim (Reply 245):
On time is dependent on many factors - despatch reliability is a better indicator of frame performance.

Even better indicator is completion factor relative to flights scheduled on the given aircraft type. This measure incorporates the length of AOGs on the occasions the aircraft fails to dispatch or is substituted in advance by another aircraft type.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-12-07 01:57:16 and read 4770 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 236):

Ethiopian Airlines says its 787 fleet is doing very well with a dispatch reliability of about 95%.

TDR should be in the 99% range to be considered good.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-12-09 02:55:19 and read 4147 times.

Air India reliability is now 97% according to the civil aviation minister Ajit Singh.

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: Nav20
Posted 2013-12-09 03:18:49 and read 4075 times.

There's no doubt that ,whatever else, the 787 has changed the market for good, by allowing 'long thin routes' with nine-across capacity. And it just passed two key milestones - over 1,000 orders, and over 100 deliveries.

Whatever else happens, it's here to stay..........

Topic: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)
Username: SA7700
Posted 2013-12-09 03:33:13 and read 4031 times.

As this thread has become quite long, it will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

Part 2 can be found here:

How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 2) (by SA7700 Dec 9 2013 in Civil Aviation)


Regards,

SA7700


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