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Topic: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: opethfan
Posted 2013-11-15 03:44:40 and read 22243 times.

Just dropped. Route will be YYZ-YYT-DUB. Will also be offering connections to YVR, YYC and other locations in WS' domestic network.

http://www.westjet.com/guest/en/deal...tml?sm_cid=sm-tw-ge-20131115&mrd=0

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Fly2yyz
Posted 2013-11-15 04:17:12 and read 22021 times.

Wow, hope this flight works out for them! This sounds like an exciting foray for WestJet!

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: voodoo
Posted 2013-11-15 04:25:58 and read 21939 times.

Great! Would be good if it was year-round... but better than nothing. Will be interesting to see if AC will fight this, or how it will be affected by Aer Lingus to YYZ non-stop.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: deltadawg
Posted 2013-11-15 04:44:34 and read 21711 times.

The announcement does not say but I assume that service is on one of WS's 738's?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ei 168
Posted 2013-11-15 04:48:43 and read 21686 times.

Here is the official media link. Its a 737-700


http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=828

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-11-15 04:52:20 and read 21651 times.

Wow - we wait decades for a year round service to Dublin from Toronto, and three scheduled services come along at once!

Fantastic news.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ElPistolero
Posted 2013-11-15 04:56:05 and read 21597 times.

Is this officially WS first foray into the EU market?

Very good news.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: skipness1E
Posted 2013-11-15 04:58:51 and read 21556 times.

It's good news from a spotter's persepctive   (makes me happy) but is quite niche. It's surely more a YYT-DUB than a YYZ-DUB as with Air Canada and Aer Lingus hitting that market soon, I don't think a B737-700 stopping service is the way to go. Well if AC can make a go of YYT-LHR on an A319 on a seasonal basis let's see what WestJet can do in Ireland.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: rj777
Posted 2013-11-15 05:05:12 and read 21492 times.

From the article:
"WestJet's first transatlantic route will cut the current travel time from St. John's to Dublin by nearly half, and in just about the same time it takes to fly from Toronto to Calgary, guests are able to experience ancient castles, cobblestone roads, and the Cliffs of Moher."

how the heck are they gonna pull this off? Put afterburners on the planes?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-11-15 05:12:52 and read 21435 times.

YYT-DUB is the same distance as RHO-DUB, i wonder if WS will use the same crew out and back? Its only a GC distance of 1781nm.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: RIDGID727
Posted 2013-11-15 05:25:59 and read 21311 times.

schedule is YYZ-DUB 11:15pm- 7:00am DUB-YYZ 8:20am- 9:55am

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-11-15 05:28:12 and read 21249 times.

Wish them luck...don't think it will last. How much O&D is there between YYT and DUB? So will Westjet interline or codeshare with Aer Lingus to provide onward connections, or are they simply stating that DUB has 100 non stops just to beaf up their press release. Does Ryanair even do codeshare or interline? i dont think so.

Either way, I see AC dumping the fares on YYT-LHR just to make sure this little westjet faux pas doesn't last long !

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-11-15 05:35:02]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: RIDGID727
Posted 2013-11-15 05:33:50 and read 21186 times.

They are quoting a fare of $778 cad RT from YYC. Summer youth and backpackers will fill these flights

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: EI564
Posted 2013-11-15 06:17:32 and read 20865 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 9):
From the article:
"WestJet's first transatlantic route will cut the current travel time from St. John's to Dublin by nearly half, and in just about the same time it takes to fly from Toronto to Calgary, guests are able to experience ancient castles, cobblestone roads, and the Cliffs of Moher."

how the heck are they gonna pull this off? Put afterburners on the planes?

I presume they are comparing the flight time to going indirect via Toronto or via Heathrow, since you can't fly St Johns Dublin direct at the moment.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2013-11-15 07:28:57 and read 20480 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
Wish them luck...don't think it will last. How much O&D is there between YYT and DUB? So will Westjet interline or codeshare with Aer Lingus to provide onward connections, or are they simply stating that DUB has 100 non stops just to beaf up their press release. Does Ryanair even do codeshare or interline? i dont think so

Interesting. Nfld certainly has a huge "connection" to Ireland... in the sentimental sense. Whether that means a "connection" in terms of people travellnig back and forth?. Time will tell, I guess.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
Either way, I see AC dumping the fares on YYT-LHR just to make sure this little westjet faux pas doesn't last long !

Surely not, that would be illegal.

AC will compete freely and fairly by offering the best price possible.

And should WJ turn out to be right - that there is a market for this route - AC will find a few spare 319's and suddenly offer service to a whole bunch of destinations.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: GCT64
Posted 2013-11-15 07:39:34 and read 20368 times.

Surprising announcement, but, rather than a one off, surely the start of an increasing wave of new narrowbody services between Ireland/UK and Eastern Canada / NE US as the capabilities of the NEO and MAX come available to the airlines operating in this area. I'm sure FR, EZY, B6 (as well as AC) are all interested in this WS route development.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Noise
Posted 2013-11-15 09:10:07 and read 19880 times.

Wow, I knew it! I was just looking at the max range of the 73N other day and was thinking they can reach Europe from YYT. Anyway this is awesome news for WestJet and for Canada. Anyone think they'll make an effort to serve LHR, MAN, LIS or CDG now that they're in Europe?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: YXD172
Posted 2013-11-15 09:19:45 and read 19804 times.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 14):


AC will compete freely and fairly by offering the best price possible.

And with WS's impressive launch fare of $570 rt from YYZ through the summer, it's going to be hard to call any fare AC, EI, or TS offer on the route anything more than price matching!

The timing is a bit confusing though. Any ideas why they have a 1.5 hr layover in YYT on the outbound? I can understand it for customs on the way back, but that seems a bit excessive for through PAX on the way to DUB.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: gkirk
Posted 2013-11-15 09:22:47 and read 19746 times.

Halifax-Glasgow next perhaps?  

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: GCT64
Posted 2013-11-15 09:27:19 and read 19674 times.

Quoting gkirk (Reply 18):
Halifax-Glasgow next perhaps?

Perhaps EDI-YYT-BOS and GLA-YYT-YUL all passing through YYT at the same time to allow low cost TATL connections "Icelandair style"

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: tguman
Posted 2013-11-15 09:47:53 and read 19307 times.

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 17):
The timing is a bit confusing though. Any ideas why they have a 1.5 hr layover in YYT on the outbound? I can understand it for customs on the way back, but that seems a bit excessive for through PAX on the way to DUB.

Based on doing YYJ-HNL flights with regards to fuelling, it can take up to 45 minutes of pumping to put that much fuel on board. Since the flight is a little shorter, it shouldn't take quite as long, and I hope YYT has better fuel trucks that I have historically used in YYJ (our newer trucks just came on line this summer and I haven't done any of the CUN charters yet to get a feel for how long it takes to fuel a 737 to 35,000 lbs or more)

Some simple calculations based off of a 750 litres per minute flow rate.

Aircraft arrives with 12,000 lbs Fuel on board
Departure fuel is 38,000 lbs
Total fuel to be added - 25,000 lbs

Average weight of Jet A1 is - 1.78 lbs per litre.

Total approximate litres - 14100 litres

Time at 750 litres per minute - 19 minutes.

Till you do different required checks, and as the plane gets full flow rate decreases, it could very likely take a full 45 minutes for the fuelling operation to take place.

1.5 hours layover seems perfectly reasonable, time to get out, stretch, get some food, and then settle in for trans-atlantic flight.

TGUman

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: kaitak
Posted 2013-11-15 09:53:44 and read 19193 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
How much O&D is there between YYT and DUB?
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 14):
Interesting. Nfld certainly has a huge "connection" to Ireland... in the sentimental sense. Whether that means a "connection" in terms of people travellnig back and forth?.

There are still a lot of family and cultural connections between Ireland the Canadian Atlantic provinces; on a great circle from Ireland, it's the first place you hit (assuming you're a good sailor) ... the accents there are very Irish and Irish is apparently still spoken in many fishing villages. If you've ever seen the television series "Republic of Doyle", you'll see that the accents sound very Irish (apart from the lead actor, who is actually Irish anyway!).

It's gratifying that WJ's first foray to Europe should link it to the centre of the known universe. (Tiny bias there, perhaps  )

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: yyz717
Posted 2013-11-15 10:02:35 and read 18993 times.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 7):
I don't think a B737-700 stopping service is the way to go.

It's a minimum risk commitment for an initial seasonal TATL service. The 73G will be no less comfortable than the UA and EI 752's on TATL flights.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
Wish them luck...don't think it will last.

It's a summer seasonal service only. It's not meant to last beyond Oct 2014. Whether it returns in 2015 is another story.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 14):
Interesting. Nfld certainly has a huge "connection" to Ireland... in the sentimental sense. Whether that means a "connection" in terms of people travellnig back and forth?. Time will tell, I guess.

Not just NL. This new service could also be attractive for Ottawa, Montreal and all Atlantic Canada, since it will enable travel to Ireland without backtracking to YYZ or hubbing through BOS, EWR or LHR.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: PlymSpotter
Posted 2013-11-15 10:20:23 and read 18678 times.

Very happy with this, just booked at weekend in St Johns from Dublin for a little over £200.


Dan  

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: fidelidade
Posted 2013-11-15 10:44:26 and read 18309 times.

I think it is very good and interesting. But I also think is Westjet this desperate and not have other opportunity in their comfort zone? This is scary. Did that smart Indian man who was manager of network planning already leave? I heard him speak once and he was very brilliant and passion full about Westjet and their CEO.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Boeing744
Posted 2013-11-15 10:51:27 and read 18916 times.

This is a huge surprise, but I'm very pleased to see it. Hopefully it'll help drive AC and TS fares to Ireland and the UK down a bit. Just browsing through some flights in WS's booking system, there are some unreal prices, even from cities like Ottawa with a connection in YYT.

Any idea if they'll provide meals, or just buy on board? What is the case for WestJet charters to the south?

All I can say is best of luck to WS.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: wjv04
Posted 2013-11-15 10:55:19 and read 18984 times.

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 17):
The timing is a bit confusing though. Any ideas why they have a 1.5 hr layover in YYT on the outbound? I can understand it for customs on the way back, but that seems a bit excessive for through PAX on the way to DUB.

Likely a crew change and ETOPS inspection being a primary reason, fueling time as mentioned is typical a 25-30 minutes. 1.5h isn't that long of a ground time for a international outbound. That also allows WestJet a bit of a buffer to keep YYT-DUB on time in the event YYT is behind, which is so often the case with anything in and out of YYT(WX).

[Edited 2013-11-15 11:05:41]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Boeing744
Posted 2013-11-15 10:55:57 and read 19368 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 22):
also be attractive for Ottawa, Montreal

Unfortunately WS doesn't fly YUL-YYT, so it's not really practical from Montreal. You'd have to backtrack to YYZ, and then still connect through YYT.

It would be great if WS added just a once-a-day service YUL-YYT to feed this route, as well as take some local traffic away from AC and Porter as well!

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Polaris
Posted 2013-11-15 10:58:50 and read 19298 times.

Another foray outside of their "model". Westjet went from serving Canada exclusively, then added destinations within North America (including the Caribbean), then added a regional division, now adding Europe. They went from being an exclusively 737 operator to adding a second aircraft type. Their "successful" model will start to suffer as they move beyond their focus as expenses start to increase.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: wjv04
Posted 2013-11-15 11:13:44 and read 19018 times.

Quoting Polaris (Reply 28):
Their "successful" model will start to suffer as they move beyond their focus as expenses start to increase.
What business model is that? Your talking the business model of WN from the mid 90s? That was effective in that era as many Canadians could not afford air travel, so they pioneered low cost flying but since has evolved to a more relevant identity for this modern day and age. Those people who couldn't afford to fly YYC-YVR in the 90s, are now flying YYC-CUN or YYZ-MBJ, YVR-OGG. Or are now flying to visit family rather then driving.

WS has been using the current model of " WestJet strives to be one of the five most successful international airlines in the world" for years now. WS responds to the demand of the market place. Just as any small or large business or corporation should do. While you are correct, CASM does increase, but it was only 10 days ago they announced a Q3 earning of 65 million dollars and 36th (I believe) consecutive quarter of profitability. Considering the enormous costs of initial start of a airline (Encore). One can conclude that the company is quite healthy and managing the CASM increase just fine. Stock price indicates that as well, looking at 1yr and 5yr.

[Edited 2013-11-15 11:40:50]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: whiteguy
Posted 2013-11-15 11:23:37 and read 18822 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 22):
It's a summer seasonal service only. It's not meant to last beyond Oct 2014. Whether it returns in 2015 is another story.

Wonder if there will be the same outcry when service is stopped or doesn't return as when AC cut back service for a time.  

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: kiramakora
Posted 2013-11-15 11:51:34 and read 18336 times.

I would have expected them to do this after Encore flew in the region, but of course their planning team has better data than us.

The network planning team probably fell asleep though. I mean, the return departure is at 820am! That does not give many connection options. They should have known better especially if they are claiming this as a strong point in their press release -

"Once you get there, Dublin Airport provides more than 100 non-stop flights to other European destinations."

Quoting fidelidade (Reply 24):
Did that smart Indian man who was manager of network planning already leave? I heard him speak once and he was very brilliant and passion full about Westjet and their CEO.

Yes. He is gone. I agree though, he is a very passionate and smart man and I think we will see more from him. Right now, he is at InterVistas as Vice President for Airlines something.



[Edited 2013-11-15 11:52:28]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: robsaw
Posted 2013-11-15 12:02:20 and read 18179 times.

Quoting Polaris (Reply 28):
Their "successful" model will start to suffer as they move beyond their focus as expenses start to increase.

Yes, but given that their OLD model was essentially fully implemented to the reasonable extent change is necessary or growth will stop. Success is continued by taking risks not by relying on the status-quo, which in actuality would be higher risk.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: voodoo
Posted 2013-11-15 12:11:03 and read 18037 times.

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 31):
The network planning team probably fell asleep though. I mean, the return departure is at 820am! That does not give many connection options. They should have known better especially if they are claiming this as a strong point in their press release -

Are there any cheaper brand airport hotels at DUB?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2013-11-15 12:16:48 and read 17934 times.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 27):
It would be great if WS added just a once-a-day service YUL-YYT to feed this route, as well as take some local traffic away from AC and Porter as well!

that could also feed domestic YYT service via YUL connections... (any more capacity to YYT would be welcome by me!!)


Here is a question:

Are Westjet aircraft are capable of serving hot meals? If not they will be competing with more traditional international TATL carriers who do... will that have any effect?

(OK, 2 questions)

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: EIDL
Posted 2013-11-15 12:33:19 and read 17719 times.

Quoting voodoo (Reply 33):
Are there any cheaper brand airport hotels at DUB?

There's only two within the airport property - Radisson and Clarion - but there's at least ten other hotels with shuttles including a Holiday Inn, a Travelodge, a Premier Inn and some no-branders. You'll usually find somewhere for well under €100 even in peak and as low as €50 or below otherwise.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: YXD172
Posted 2013-11-15 13:11:33 and read 17157 times.

Quoting tguman (Reply 20):
Quoting wjv04 (Reply 26):

Thanks, makes sense when you look at it like that!

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: jetmarc
Posted 2013-11-15 17:34:32 and read 14636 times.

Do WS cabin crews work red eye turns? If this flight was operated by B6, just like most of our carribean flying, the pilots would layover while the flight attendants would operate it as a turn. Looks like an 11 hour duty day, so it's possible. Anyone have any insight?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-11-15 18:03:53 and read 14342 times.

Quoting ei 168 (Reply 4):

Here is the official media link. Its a 737-700

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index....m=828

Interesting that WS is launching YOW-YYT on June 15 as well. It's as if they feel they need all the connections they can get to make this flight work.

Thenoflyzone

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: vio
Posted 2013-11-15 20:36:07 and read 13177 times.

That's quite surprising. I wasn't expecting to see WJ expand across the Atlantic just yet. From a distance point of you, YYT-DUB is shorter than YVR-Maui, but I don't know how WJ will sway business travelers away or travelers beyond Dublin. Yes, if I lived on the East Coast, I'd have no problem flying with them, but being in central Canada, I'd have to connect through Toronto. Where's the advantage is that?

Is this destination intended only as a seasonal leisure for people who actually end their trip in DUB? It seems that way. Well good luck to WJ. So far they have proven that they know what they're doing. They have started routes before and canceled them, only to start them up again when the market was more profitable.

I think that once Encore is up and running as they want it to, they'll def. shift their sites to go long haul. It only makes sense. Like others said. Canada's market is very limited and WJ is probably at the limit of what they can do within the country, so that's why they had to expand into "regionals" and next the "long haul" routes will start popping up.

I can totally see YYC-NRT as being one of the first Trans Pacific route. (I know, I'm getting carried away)...

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: abrelosojos
Posted 2013-11-15 21:25:59 and read 12830 times.

Quoting fidelidade (Reply 24):
I think it is very good and interesting. But I also think is Westjet this desperate and not have other opportunity in their comfort zone? This is scary. Did that smart Indian man who was manager of network planning already leave? I heard him speak once and he was very brilliant and passion full about Westjet and their CEO.

= Yes. He left at the end of August I believe. Articulate and passionate, he was one of the few network planners I have met who were not simple nerdy and boring! He is at a Vancouver based consulting firm I believe.

Saludos,
Alex

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ac853
Posted 2013-11-15 21:28:54 and read 12808 times.

Do you think they will offer complimentary hot meal service? I am sure AC does on YYT-LHR

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-11-16 00:21:06 and read 11874 times.

Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: YXXMIKE
Posted 2013-11-16 00:59:04 and read 11661 times.

This seems almost random from WS and pointless given the other options that are available to DUB out of YYZ. Having just flown the trip in September with AC I would struggle with the idea of doing it in a 737. The AC 763 wasn't new or anything but it was spacious enough and yes, I did pay the extra money for the seats up front because of the red eye flight coming back but it was money that was well spent. I can't imagine doing that flight in a very crammed 737, just not going to happen.

My own opinions aside here, some questions...

1) Connection options on the other end? Do WS & EI have any code sharing? In particular for those wanting to travel onwards to GLA/EDI/MAN etc.

2) Is there a hot meal service? Seems to be the standard for TATL flights (is there a legal obligation?)

3) Why not look at a 757 option such as the one they have used in the past for YYC/YEG - HNL? Would this not be a bit of a safer option for them?

I find this entire routing quite strange and a bit half assed to be honest. Would WS not better focusing on the operational success of Encore before moving onto a market they have never stepped foot into before. Also, would it not better to pick a destination aren't competing against AC and EI on? GLA/MAN/BFS all come to mind.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-11-16 02:00:03 and read 11340 times.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 19):
Perhaps EDI-YYT-BOS and GLA-YYT-YUL all passing through YYT at the same time to allow low cost TATL connections "Icelandair style"
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 22):
It's a minimum risk commitment for an initial seasonal TATL service. The 73G will be no less comfortable than the UA and EI 752's on TATL flights.
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 27):
It would be great if WS added just a once-a-day service YUL-YYT to feed this route, as well as take some local traffic away from AC and Porter as well!
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 38):
Interesting that WS is launching YOW-YYT on June 15 as well. It's as if they feel they need all the connections they can get to make this flight work.

I think that a YYT scissor hub would allow 73G aircraft to reach several European cities, and like Icelandair, have a few key flights to YYC, YYZ, YUL, YOW, even YEG or YVR, 1 stop or 1 connect to Europe. Cool idea, let us see how this one route treats them, and maybe in the next few years we'll see more. YYT is geographically good for 737 TATL flights.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-11-16 03:17:26 and read 10861 times.

Quoting vio (Reply 39):

That's quite surprising. I wasn't expecting to see WJ expand across the Atlantic just yet. From a distance point of you, YYT-DUB is shorter than YVR-Maui, but I don't know how WJ will sway business travelers away or travelers beyond Dublin. Yes, if I lived on the East Coast, I'd have no problem flying with them, but being in central Canada, I'd have to connect through Toronto. Where's the advantage is that?

This may become the Achilles Heel for WS. The flight from YYT maybe short but for anybody other that people on the east coast you would have to change planes and sit in airports for a period of time. I don't see the appeal of this type of service.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 42):

Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass.

Really?! I guess you have not flown recently on US, UA, or even BA. WS economy be the crap out of UA, AA, and even DL and AC, assuming there would the same amenities as the other airlines they will be competing against.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-11-16 03:25:27 and read 10772 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 42):
Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass

The segment is shorter than Hawaii to the mainland, and 73Gs and 738s have been doing that for years, I just did my seconf trip on a 738 to Jawaii, and it's nicer than the 757, as there are less people, and aside from HA, there are very few W/B aircraft flying from west coast., it's all about the narrow bodies now.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: invaders
Posted 2013-11-16 03:29:48 and read 10734 times.

Quoting Polaris (Reply 28):
Another foray outside of their "model". Westjet went from serving Canada exclusively, then added destinations within North America (including the Caribbean), then added a regional division, now adding Europe. They went from being an exclusively 737 operator to adding a second aircraft type. Their "successful" model will start to suffer as they move beyond their focus as expenses start to increase.

Dont forget DY started out with F50 in western Norway some 20 years ago. If you want to expand you need to do stuff outside your comfort-zone.

I just booked myself a trip from DUB to YYZ, since I have not been to Dublin before it will be a nice combination.

And for those who dont like Transatlantic Service in a 737 economy, just compare the trip to a trip from Scandinavia to the Canary Islands. TOS-LPA is 7 hours on a 738.... 4-5 hours seems like a walk in the park compared to TOS-LPA.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: drgmobile
Posted 2013-11-16 04:59:44 and read 10417 times.

It is possible to overthink this. I think it's a way for WestJet to dip its toe into a nontraditional market, will probably be with primarily with eastern Canada-Ireland traffic and stimulate some traffic that might not otherwise fly. WestJet has been rather methodical about every deviation from its core model that it has explored -- witness Transat vacation flying before launching its own Vacations division, the wetlease of 757s for Hawaii and how long it took WestJet to embark upon a regional subsidiary. There is no reason to believe the company would be any less methodical now.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: factsonly
Posted 2013-11-16 05:16:13 and read 10389 times.

Quoting opethfan (Thread starter):
Just dropped. Route will be YYZ-YYT-DUB. Will also be offering connections to YVR, YYC and other locations in WS' domestic network.



Imagine all the new Transatlantic routing possibilities once the B737MAX and A320NEO are delivered.

We are going to see some very interesting new developments.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: voodoo
Posted 2013-11-16 05:22:23 and read 10329 times.

It has occurred to me that they may want to do this and establish themselves in that sort of market before Porter comes along with the C-Series and does it instead. YYT was a route Porter has put forward and given how others have talked of TATL C-series ops.....

And there is also the old gossip that one day WS may take over Porter.....

There is also a new factor at YYT, I believe, a new Cat 3 ILS........

[Edited 2013-11-16 05:55:59]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ElPistolero
Posted 2013-11-16 05:28:29 and read 10316 times.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 15):
Surprising announcement, but, rather than a one off, surely the start of an increasing wave of new narrowbody services between Ireland/UK and Eastern Canada / NE US as the capabilities of the NEO and MAX come available to the airlines operating in this area.

Maybe Gander and Goose Bay will come back online as well.

Back to the Future!

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 34):
Are Westjet aircraft are capable of serving hot meals? If not they will be competing with more traditional international TATL carriers who do... will that have any effect?

They' appear to be emulating Icelandair's model, which seems to be working.

"WestJet, which is still in the midst of determining what its next in-flight entertainment system will be, will offer four channels of stored movies and TV and free food and beverages on the flights for its premium economy seats and buy-on-board for its economy section, the company said."

Frankly, its not really different to any East Coast - Hawaii service on AC or the US carriers. The TATL leg is only 4 hours, like a transcon leg.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 38):
Interesting that WS is launching YOW-YYT on June 15 as well. It's as if they feel they need all the connections they can get to make this flight work.

Looks like the plan is to turn YYT into a scissor hub over time.

"But Chris Avery, WestJet vice-president of network planning, alliances, and corporate development, said the airline is looking at four or five other European cities as possible destinations and potentially developing St. John’s into an East Coast hub for connections to Europe."

If YYT does become a scissor hub, heaven forbid YYT offer any incentives, bulk purchase discounts or vocal praise for WS plans, or else AC will throw a fit and cancel the YYT-LHR flight, like they did in YEG. That aside, dealing with CBSA in Newfoundland might be a lot more bearable than it is in YYZ or YOW.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Boeing744
Posted 2013-11-16 07:44:53 and read 9994 times.

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 51):
"But Chris Avery, WestJet vice-president of network planning, alliances, and corporate development, said the airline is looking at four or five other European cities as possible destinations and potentially developing St. John’s into an East Coast hub for connections to Europe."

That would be a very interesting development for aviation in Canada. Let's try to guess some of these other European cities, shall we?

London (which airport, who knows - STN would be good for LCC connections)
Paris
Edinburgh/Glasgow
Barcelona
Lisbon

Trying to think of more leisure destinations here. Any other suggestions?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-11-16 11:21:23 and read 9549 times.

I was mocked a while back by an AC pilot for the idea that someobody could build a sort of TATL mini-hub in YHZ. Now WS may just pull that off in YYT. Aside from WS could easily offer connections to travelers from YUL, YEG, YYC, YHZ.

Not some huge operation. Just a few domestic flights that could feed a few TATL routes. I could easily see DUB, LGW, GLA and maybe EDI, BFS, MAN too being year round with the right domestic feed. Fare-conscious shoppers won't mind the extra stop in YYT. Heck, I don't think even business travelers will complain about the extra stop.

And I think they may well be trying to beat Porter to the punch. Imagine what Porter can do using the CSeries out of YYT. One stop from YTZ, YOW, YHZ and YUL to LCY via YYT, for example.

[Edited 2013-11-16 11:36:49]

[Edited 2013-11-16 11:44:08]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: cyeg66
Posted 2013-11-16 11:47:34 and read 9404 times.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 48):
It is possible to overthink this.

Indeed, that may be the case. I thought I had read somewhere that WS had awarded a maintenance contract to a company nearby DUB to perform maintenance on their 73G's and that they were planning on rotating them all at some point this summer. Rather than fly empty, may as well carry some pax for both legs... I haven't verified any of this, tho. I don't *actually* think WS has huge aspirations for YYT and long range flights with their narrowbodies...

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 42):

Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass.

I don't disagree with your sentiment, when more *glamorous* options exist to skip the pond, but with all due respect, what does that say about everyone flying transcons in the US or Canada that exceed the YYT-DUB stage length? Different kettle of fish, I know, but if it's palatable in the same aircraft to fly YHZ-YYC (for example), it's no different for the former. I'd be fine with it.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-11-16 11:47:42 and read 9425 times.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 49):
Imagine all the new Transatlantic routing possibilities once the B737MAX and A320NEO are delivered.

When did WS order the A320NEO and has it been approved for ETOPS transatlantic service?

[Edited 2013-11-16 11:48:28]

Would KEF be a destination that might appeal at least in the summer to WS as well maybe, we were there this past summer for a few days and it was a beautiful place.


[Edited 2013-11-16 11:53:03]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-11-16 12:05:46 and read 9349 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 42):

Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass.

How is this any different than an AC 77H?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: srbmod
Posted 2013-11-16 14:38:29 and read 9073 times.

A few years ago SY was running once a week seasonal MSP-STN service via Gander, so WS flying -YYZ-YYT-DUB isn't too far fetched.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 42):
Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass.

Before the 747, DC-10 and L-1011 were doing Transatlantic flights, what do you think were doing them? Narrowbodies like the DC-8 and 707.......

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: EIDL
Posted 2013-11-16 14:43:02 and read 9044 times.

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 54):
I thought I had read somewhere that WS had awarded a maintenance contract to a company nearby DUB to perform maintenance on their 73G's and that they were planning on rotating them all at some point this summe

They have, to Eirtech, but this seems entirely unconnected. The turn times on the ground wouldn't allow Eirtech near the planes.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: cyeg66
Posted 2013-11-16 16:03:00 and read 8885 times.

Quoting EIDL (Reply 58):
They have, to Eirtech, but this seems entirely unconnected. The turn times on the ground wouldn't allow Eirtech near the planes.

The planes would be shuttled in to DUB with pax on board, replaced by one that's already had the refurb work done to it, then flown with pax outbound to YYT. I didn't mean for the a/c to have the work done to them in the hour or two while stationary in DUB, all the while being refueled and prepped for the return leg. Lol. Could you imagine that three ring circus? That would be quite the sight to see...

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Voodoo
Posted 2013-11-17 07:49:27 and read 8265 times.

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 59):

That would imply that only ETOPS certified a/c would be worked on.......which would seem unlikely.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-17 08:05:13 and read 8218 times.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 25):
Any idea if they'll provide meals, or just buy on board? What is the case for WestJet charters to the south?
Quoting ac853 (Reply 41):
Do you think they will offer complimentary hot meal service? I am sure AC does on YYT-LHR
Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 43):
2) Is there a hot meal service? Seems to be the standard for TATL flights

Why should they do anything different than on any of their other long routes? All that would do is confuse their passengers. YYT-DUB is about 600 miles shorter than YVR-HNL for example.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 42):
Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass.

No different than the dozens of 757s that cross the Atlantic every day on much longer sectors than YYT-DUB. The 737 cabin is exactly the same width as the 757 and WS seat pitch is 31-32 inches, the same as the typical 757.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-11-17 08:37:30 and read 8125 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 42):
Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass.

As others have already said, there are many narrow-bodies crossing the Atlantic, so why does it sound so impossible to do it ?

I have to admit I haven't tried it yet, however there are many trans-continental flights as long as this one.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-11-17 08:46:39 and read 8093 times.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 49):
Imagine all the new Transatlantic routing possibilities once the B737MAX and A320NEO are delivered.

We are going to see some very interesting new developments.

Yes, jetBlue ... your northern cousin just showed their cards!!!

SHOW US YOURS 

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-17 09:08:41 and read 8032 times.

Quoting ASA (Reply 63):
Yes, jetBlue ... your northern cousin just showed their cards

Difference is that the shortest U.S.-Europe markets (not counting Iceland) that would make sense for nonstop service are over 40% further than the WS YYT-DUB route. BOS-DUB is 46% further (about 940 miles) and BOS-SNN about 41% further.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2013-11-17 11:10:03 and read 7793 times.

Is AC's 319 the -LR version or regular type? Can foreign carriers fly domestic in Canada??

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-17 11:15:16 and read 7822 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 65):
Is AC's 319 the -LR version or regular type?

No. The two A319s used on that route only have ETOPS and overwater equipment. Otherwise they're standard A319s. AC has several other A319 nonstop routes that are longer than YYT-LHR.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 65):
Can foreign carriers fly domestic in Canada??

No, like virtually all countries in the world were cabotage is prohibited, with isolated exceptions such as the EU single market and the similar Australia-New Zealand single market agreement where airlines based in either country can operate domestic services in the other country.

[Edited 2013-11-17 11:20:32]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-11-17 19:47:25 and read 7328 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 53):
I was mocked a while back by an AC pilot for the idea that someobody could build a sort of TATL mini-hub in YHZ. Now WS may just pull that off in YYT. Aside from WS could easily offer connections to travelers from YUL, YEG, YYC, YHZ.

I wasn't mocking you, I just don't see it happening. At least not for AC, when they already fly to most places in Europe, why build a hub in YHZ, when they can just fly non-stop and cheaper from anywhere in Canada? In other words, it would make sense to build a European hub from where the majority of your traffic is flying, ie. YYZ or YUL. Likely not YHZ, and certainly not YYT.

Anytime you route traffic through a station instead of non-stop, the cost of doing business increases dramatically. So there is no way WS can compete with costs routing through YYT, than an airline flying non-stop from say YYZ to DUB.

So why are they flying YYT-DUB? The biggest reason is probably the big maintenance contract they signed with an Irish company based in DUB! (Am I the only one that read that accouncement? It was a few months ago) So if you are ferrying aircraft to DUB anyway, why not start a route and see if it pans?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: yyz717
Posted 2013-11-17 22:34:12 and read 7131 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 67):
So there is no way WS can compete with costs routing through YYT, than an airline flying non-stop from say YYZ to DUB.

WS has unit costs 25% lower than AC mainline (and probably Rouge), so yes they can compete. YHZ, YOW and YYZ-Westjet-ites (my word) will flock to this flight.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 67):
So why are they flying YYT-DUB?

Why not? It's about market development and mild risk taking (which shareholders demand). It's about utilizing a 73G that would otherwise RON at a drafty YYT and deploy it on a route experiment departing at 11pm and returning at 930am the next day.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 67):
The biggest reason is probably the big maintenance contract they signed with an Irish company based in DUB!

Maybe. Maybe not. Don't over analyze it. It provides another TATL option for Atlantic Canada, YOW and YYZ.   If it's a dismal failure, WS will can the route.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: BO__einG
Posted 2013-11-17 22:49:05 and read 7077 times.

^ EXACTLY! I would say a rather clever move by WJ.

It is a low risk business decision that aligns with the mx ferries it has to do anyway, so let it run its course during the summer and they evaluate how well this idea has worked. Maybe they'll make some money out of it.
Heck I am thinking of booking my ticket back to Dublin myself and the prices being so attractive from Calgary, it is very tempting. I believe YYC-YYT direct flights will resume again in the summer months but I believe there will be several hours layover so I may as well check out St.Johns and blow some money on some screech and then stumble back onboard for the overnighter to the emerald isle. I think YYC-YYT is about 6hrs and then another 4.5hrs or so to Dublin so even though its a little longer than flying direct to LHR or Scotland, it'd be good to stretch out my legs for a few hrs.
Their leather seats are comfy enough and you can just buy food on board or bring em on from the terminal considering the decent flight time. Hell Ryanair has longer flights to sun cities and their hardshell bus seats are the worst! You complain to them and they tell you to piss off..
Some people seem to have an entitlement mantra for any kind of TATF, expecting silver platters. Only if you've experienced 4hrs on Ryanair, you would know..

I don't know how many other cities will have seasonal YYT flights next summer but it may be enough to warrant enough pax to fill up the Flight 17 leg. But make no mistake, this does look to be a 1 time deal unless it becomes wildly successful, then Scotland or Iceland could be considered imo.
Again, a clever idea and it makes the most sense for what on the outside would appear to be a random announcement.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: NorthstarBoy
Posted 2013-11-18 04:01:09 and read 6787 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 22):
It's a minimum risk commitment for an initial seasonal TATL service. The 73G will be no less comfortable than the UA and EI 752's on TATL flights.

Eh, just wait til they hit a 130 mile an hour tail wind and the airplane is being thrown around then we'll see how comfortable it is to cross the atlantic on a 737-700.

I do wonder though, with Canadian Airports (from what i've seen on terminal maps) having dedicated Domestic, Transborder, and International gates, if the onward passengers to Dublin will be required to stay on board during the ground stop? I also have to wonder how many International gates YYT has? would it be possible for AC to schedule their inbound from LHR to arrive at the same time as WS new Dublin flight, forcing WS to do some kind of schedule change? I'm not suggesting AC should behave that way, just wonder if it's a possibility from a logistical stand point.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-11-18 04:24:03 and read 6713 times.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 70):
Eh, just wait til they hit a 130 mile an hour tail wind and the airplane is being thrown around then we'll see how comfortable it is to cross the atlantic on a 737-700.

Turbulence do not just occur over oceans, and neither does it just effect narrowbodies.

As others have already stated, this is a short flight of approx 4 hrs flying time which is akin to flights from Dublin to the Canary Islands, served by multiple narrowbodies in dense LCC configuration.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-11-18 05:52:05 and read 6604 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 68):
WS has unit costs 25% lower than AC mainline (and probably Rouge), so yes they can compete. YHZ, YOW and YYZ-Westjet-ites (my word) will flock to this flight.

Recent statistics on a per-fleet basis are very interesting. One that pops up is that the A320 series at AC is within 2% of WS's B737. Looking at the operation, that is not all that surprising, so ... as unit costs of wide-body aircraft are less, one has to follow that one of the higher costs at AC is simply the cost of flying internationally. Something that WS is about to see.

Rouge's seat mile costs dropped 20% over mainline simply with the number of seats placed in the aircraft. EI is no slouch either with respect to low costs.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 68):
Maybe. Maybe not. Don't over analyze it.

Well, if one had to decide where one was going to start TATL operations, and looking at where everyone wanted to go ... would you pick DUB for your first destination? No disrepect to my Irish friends, but it has never been a high demand destination. My thoughts were that there had to be a reason DUB was picked, and maintenance certainly had to be one of them. Especially as at exactly the same time, two other airlines (EI and RV) are starting operations there as well as TS is continuing its operations there.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2013-11-18 07:20:56 and read 6413 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 67):
Why not? It's about market development and mild risk taking (which shareholders demand). It's about utilizing a 73G that would otherwise RON at a drafty YYT and deploy it on a route experiment departing at 11pm and returning at 930am the next day.

Actually, a very good point... minimal adjustments to their schedule + parked 737 = producing 737.

YYZYYT

Ps - longhauler, are you flying any YYZ-YYT legs this Christmas season?

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: cyeg66
Posted 2013-11-18 08:22:05 and read 6296 times.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 73):
Ps - longhauler, are you flying any YYZ-YYT legs this Christmas season?

Not unless YYZ has AC scheduled 767 service to YYT...

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-11-18 08:30:46 and read 6259 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 67):
I wasn't mocking you, I just don't see it happening.

Wasn't referring to you longhauler....

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-18 08:36:54 and read 6252 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 57):
Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 42):Transatlantic service in 737 economy class seat? OUCH... No, thanks, I'll pass.
Before the 747, DC-10 and L-1011 were doing Transatlantic flights, what do you think were doing them? Narrowbodies like the DC-8 and 707.......

But with much more comfortable 34 inch seat pitch and better inflight service.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Noise
Posted 2013-11-18 09:00:27 and read 6240 times.

If WS is looking at other European destinations, LHR, CDG, GLA, AMS, LIS, MAD and even FRA are all within range of YYT with the 73N.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-11-18 09:03:10 and read 6226 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 72):
Well, if one had to decide where one was going to start TATL operations, and looking at where everyone wanted to go ... would you pick DUB for your first destination? No disrepect to my Irish friends, but it has never been a high demand destination. My thoughts were that there had to be a reason DUB was picked, and maintenance certainly had to be one of them. Especially as at exactly the same time, two other airlines (EI and RV) are starting operations there as well as TS is continuing its operations there.

I think that the travel tax situation in Ireland compared to the UK helped the decision to swing in Dublin's favour. Also Ireland is as close as you can get to NF. I'd say the Eastbound flights will clock under 4 hours flying time.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-18 09:21:27 and read 6190 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 78):
I'd say the Eastbound flights will clock under 4 hours flying time.

YYT-DUB is almost the same distance as YVR-YYZ (30 nm shorter, 1781 nm vs. 1811 nm). WS block time eastbound YVR-YYZ is 4:20 to 4:25 and westbound 5:10 to 5:15.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: yyz717
Posted 2013-11-18 09:31:50 and read 6135 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 72):
My thoughts were that there had to be a reason DUB was picked, and maintenance certainly had to be one of them.

WS mentoned support from DUB airport (likely lower fees). Also, with FR having a hub of sorts at DUB, DUB makes for a great jumping off spot to anywhere in Europe for the discount traveller.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 72):
Especially as at exactly the same time, two other airlines (EI and RV) are starting operations there as well as TS is continuing its operations there.

With 4 airlines competing on YYZ-DUB, it will be a bloodbath for sure. The spoils will go to the low cost provider, as always. I'm kinda hoping EI will succeed on this route -- it's been a long time waiting for them to launch YYZ.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-18 09:39:21 and read 6095 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 80):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 72):My thoughts were that there had to be a reason DUB was picked, and maintenance certainly had to be one of them.
WS mentoned support from DUB airport (likely lower fees). Also, with FR having a hub of sorts at DUB, DUB makes for a great jumping off spot to anywhere in Europe for the discount traveller.

That's risky unless you allow a few hours of connecting time. A delay and missed connection and you'll have to buy a new FR ticket, which with typical peak season load factors is likely to be a problem at the last minute, and no doubt a much higher fare.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2013-11-18 09:53:04 and read 6076 times.

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 74):
Not unless YYZ has AC scheduled 767 service to YYT...

They have - at least one daily during the Christmas season... and sometimes 2. My family is booked on one Dec 21*.

(and my wife thinks that I book our flights based on schedule and price alone - nope! interesting aircraft go to the top of the list )

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-11-18 10:38:01 and read 5997 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 75):

Wasn't referring to you longhauler....

No worries. I do recall a long (but civil) discussion on the merits of a YHZ hub.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 73):
longhauler, are you flying any YYZ-YYT legs this Christmas season?

Not unless its an enroute diversion.  

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-11-18 10:48:06 and read 5966 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 83):
No worries. I do recall a long (but civil) discussion on the merits of a YHZ hub.

I am wondering if instead of YHZ, there's some merit to this YYT scissor hub for Porter using CS100s.

Fantasy perhaps. But it would be awesome. YOW, YUL, YTZ, YHZ out to DUB, GLA, MAN, LCY, via YYT.

YTZ to LCY in 9 hours with one stop? That's still better than Bay Street to the Square Mile traveling YYZ-LHR. Though if they somehow manage to pull out a YTZ-LCY all J service, that would be the ultimate.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: abrelosojos
Posted 2013-11-18 21:12:38 and read 5556 times.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 73):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 67):
Why not? It's about market development and mild risk taking (which shareholders demand). It's about utilizing a 73G that would otherwise RON at a drafty YYT and deploy it on a route experiment departing at 11pm and returning at 930am the next day.

Actually, a very good point... minimal adjustments to their schedule parked 737 = producing 737.

YYZYYT

Ps - longhauler, are you flying any YYZ-YYT legs this Christmas season?

= Did WS fly YOW - YYT before? I thought this was new. If so, then this is not a parked aircraft, and an aircraft was found / dedicated to support DUB.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 80):
WS mentoned support from DUB airport (likely lower fees). Also, with FR having a hub of sorts at DUB, DUB makes for a great jumping off spot to anywhere in Europe for the discount traveller.

= Except, with the departure time the way they are, it would require an overnight @ DUB.

Saludos,
Alex

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: shamrock350
Posted 2013-11-19 09:49:03 and read 5252 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 80):
Also, with FR having a hub of sorts at DUB, DUB makes for a great jumping off spot to anywhere in Europe for the discount traveller.

Passengers would be better off choosing Aer Lingus if they wanted onward connections to/from the European network as they are around the same size, if not larger at DUB than Ryanair and actually support interlining and code shares. A few weeks ago management at Aer Lingus stated they would have a new interline partner at YYZ so I wonder if this announcement by WS has changed things, they seem a good fit to replicate what EI has done with B6 in the US.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2013-11-19 10:09:53 and read 5199 times.

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 85):
= Did WS fly YOW - YYT before? I thought this was new. If so, then this is not a parked aircraft, and an aircraft was found / dedicated to support DUB.

You are correct... though the route is YYZ-YYT-DUB, not sure how YOW enters into it.

But I think the key point is that point is that WJ has a number of flights that arrive in the evening / after midight that overnight in YYT before heading back. This new flight lets them use that overnight time productively (be it an exisiting service or new).

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: drgmobile
Posted 2013-11-19 10:48:12 and read 5154 times.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 87):
You are correct... though the route is YYZ-YYT-DUB, not sure how YOW enters into it.

"WestJet will also be adding a new daily connecting service from Ottawa to St. John’s and additional flights from Halifax to help feed traffic into the route." -- from the Financial Post.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-19 15:40:17 and read 4943 times.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 70):
I do wonder though, with Canadian Airports (from what i've seen on terminal maps) having dedicated Domestic, Transborder, and International gates,

YYT doesn't need a dedicated transborder area since there is no U.S. pre-clearance at YYT. Flights leaving for U.S. destinations are handled the same as domestic flights since they have to clear customs/immigration on arrival in the U.S.

And Canada, like the U.S., has no outbound controls on international passengers leaving Canada so those flights are the same as domestic flights and can use any gates.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: cylw
Posted 2013-11-20 18:26:36 and read 4537 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 72):
Well, if one had to decide where one was going to start TATL operations, and looking at where everyone wanted to go ... would you pick DUB for your first destination? No disrepect to my Irish friends, but it has never been a high demand destination. My thoughts were that there had to be a reason DUB was picked, and maintenance certainly had to be one of them. Especially as at exactly the same time, two other airlines (EI and RV) are starting operations there as well as TS is continuing its operations there.

Sorry, you're barking up the wrong tree. There are going to be 3-4 dedicated airplanes that will be doing this new route.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: EI564
Posted 2013-11-21 04:06:35 and read 4308 times.

Most likely they picked it because it is close to Canada compared to most other European airports. And its only operating during the summer, where there is always going to be demand. Seems simple enough. It could have picked GLA or somewhere like that but it had to start somewhere.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: gkirk
Posted 2013-11-21 04:34:04 and read 4256 times.

Quoting EI564 (Reply 91):

I think Ireland dropping APD helped as well  

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-11-21 07:51:48 and read 4134 times.

Quoting cylw (Reply 90):

Sorry, you're barking up the wrong tree. There are going to be 3-4 dedicated airplanes that will be doing this new route.

Interesting, thanks.

Odd choice for a first TATL destination. WS rarely makes a marketing mistake, so I guess they know what they are doing.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: EIDL
Posted 2013-11-21 10:39:53 and read 3988 times.

Quoting gkirk (Reply 92):
I think Ireland dropping APD helped as well  

Our ungraduated APD-equivalent meant that it amounted to about 1% of the cheapest ticket prices for this route. Not quite the same impact as the UKs APD!

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-11-21 13:25:07 and read 3895 times.

Quoting voodoo (Reply 2):
Will be interesting to see if AC will fight this
Air Canada believes WestJet’s latest move is inconsequential

Scroll down for AC's comment regarding this new WS service.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Noise
Posted 2013-11-21 13:29:17 and read 3858 times.

I'm surprised this was added from YYT and not YHZ.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-21 14:01:30 and read 3814 times.

Quoting Noise (Reply 96):
I'm surprised this was added from YYT and not YHZ.

YYT is best in my opinion. Over 20% of the population of Newfoundland claims Irish ancestry so nonstop service to DUB should be a good way to develop that market. Many people might choose that flight rather than having to backtrack about 500 miles via YHZ only to fly over YYT again about 5 hours later, making the total trip about 50% longer which would require a significantly higher fare. If you had to do that, you'd be better off using AC YYT-LHR and connecting to Ireland, cutting the total trip by about 500 miles vs. a backwards connection at YHZ.

From YHZ you're also competing with AC widebody connecting service via LHR.

The approximate 500 mile shorter trip YYT-DUB also means more operating flexibility and probably higher payloads, especially westbound where winds can be very strong.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Noise
Posted 2013-11-21 14:18:21 and read 3786 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 97):
YYT is best in my opinion. Over 20% of the population of Newfoundland claims Irish ancestry so nonstop service to DUB should be a good way to develop that market. Many people might choose that flight rather than having to backtrack about 500 miles via YHZ only to fly over YYT again about 5 hours later, making the total trip about 50% longer which would require a significantly higher fare. If you had to do that, you'd be better off using AC YYT-LHR and connecting to Ireland, cutting the total trip by about 500 miles vs. a backwards connection at YHZ.

From YHZ you're also competing with AC widebody connecting service via LHR.

The approximate 500 mile shorter trip YYT-DUB also means more operating flexibility and probably higher payloads, especially westbound where winds can be very strong.

20% of Nova Scotia's population is also ethnically Irish, however the Nova Scotian market is significantly bigger than that of Newfoundland.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-21 14:31:41 and read 3756 times.

Quoting Noise (Reply 98):
20% of Nova Scotia's population is also ethnically Irish, however the Nova Scotian market is significantly bigger than that of Newfoundland.

But YHZ via YYT is no further than nonstop, while YYT via YHZ is very roundabout. Why not operate where you can be competitive in both markets? Also more Europe competition in YHZ with both AC and Icelandair. Connections via BOS also a good option from YHZ (less roundabout than YYT via YHZ).

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Noise
Posted 2013-11-21 14:50:05 and read 3725 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 99):

But YHZ via YYT is no further than nonstop, while YYT via YHZ is very roundabout. Why not operate where you can be competitive in both markets? Also more Europe competition in YHZ with both AC and Icelandair. Connections via BOS also a good option from YHZ (less roundabout than YYT via YHZ).

But YYT is such a small market compared to YHZ. Wouldn't relying on the bigger O/D base be smarter?

[Edited 2013-11-21 14:50:49]

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-11-21 16:15:17 and read 3618 times.

Quoting Noise (Reply 100):

But YYT is such a small market compared to YHZ. Wouldn't relying on the bigger O/D base be smarter?

Filling a 136-seat 73G in the peak summer season from YYT shouldn't be difficult, assisted by connections from other cities.. And for the local YYT-DUB O&D market (originating from both ends), they should be able to offer lower fares than from/to YHZ since they're only flying about 3/4 the distance. That should help stimulate the market.

WS has a lot of experience serving much smaller Canadian markets than YYT, e.g. Comox (YQQ), Grande Prairie (YQU), Yellowknife (YZF), Whitehorse (YXY).

AC doesn't seem to have much trouble filling 120 seats on their YYT-LHR seasonal A319s.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: Noise
Posted 2013-11-21 16:40:00 and read 3582 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 101):
Filling a 136-seat 73G in the peak summer season from YYT shouldn't be difficult, assisted by connections from other cities.. And for the local YYT-DUB O&D market (originating from both ends), they should be able to offer lower fares than from/to YHZ since they're only flying about 3/4 the distance. That should help stimulate the market.

WS has a lot of experience serving much smaller Canadian markets than YYT, e.g. Comox (YQQ), Grande Prairie (YQU), Yellowknife (YZF), Whitehorse (YXY).

AC doesn't seem to have much trouble filling 120 seats on their YYT-LHR seasonal A319s.

Got it. I can see how a shorter route might lower CASMs. I was just having trouble reconciling with the fact that the Irish diaspora is even larger in Nova Scotia than it is in Newfoundland, and that the YHZ market is roughly double that of YYT.

Topic: RE: WestJet Announces Dublin From YYZ, YYT
Username: L0VE2FLY
Posted 2013-11-21 21:39:51 and read 3365 times.

Good luck WS, hope more LCCs on both sides of the pond will follow suit.


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