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Topic: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Emile
Posted 2001-10-03 13:19:37 and read 1192 times.

i hope that the european commission will do what they
said before.
NO MORE STATE AID.
its not fair,they had enough state aid i think for more then 70 years.
i am a european taxpayer.

Topic: RE: This Is The Solution.
Username: Air Orange
Posted 2001-10-03 15:17:16 and read 1111 times.

I'm a European taxpayer too. It's a pitty that Sabena never was able to hold up its own trouser. I pledge for one strong Benelux airline, it definitely will be the solution. Close Amsterdam Schiphol Airport, Brussels National Airport and Luxembourg Airport and build just one very huge airport in the very center of Belgium, Netherlands and Luxemburg. The capitals have to be linked with world's most mega airport by high speed train and/or commuter aircraft. That will work!!!!!!

Am I a realist, fantast or visionair? I think the last will be once true. It is just a matter of doing.

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Airblue
Posted 2001-10-03 15:26:11 and read 1092 times.

Your idea is not bad Air Orange, but if you look for the long haul flights. For short haul means dead.

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: TriStar
Posted 2001-10-03 15:31:54 and read 1082 times.

I'm a European tax payer to, and so are all SN employees. Think about it.

While you're at it, why not take a look at the numbers and see whether the flow from the government to Sabena ("funding") or the flow from Sabena to the government (taxes) over the last few years is positive. Then again, talking about that doesn't sound quite as dramatic as the power language you're using now. Does it?

TriStar.

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Teva
Posted 2001-10-03 15:37:57 and read 1067 times.

Air Orange, as Airblue said, for short haul flts, it will not work.
An Example?
AF replaced its flts CDG-BRU by the Thalys (High speed train) (they just put AF on the train ticket.
The reason? In a little bit more than an hour, you are in downtown Brussels (from CDG 2 )
NAna...

Topic: RE: Teva And Air Blue
Username: Air Orange
Posted 2001-10-03 15:41:44 and read 1054 times.

Okay, I understand your points of view. So just reduce the capitals' airports to commuter/short haul airports and build just one mega airport for middle and long haul flights. Will that do?

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Ceilidh
Posted 2001-10-03 15:47:05 and read 1050 times.

There are two perfectly good airports - CDG and AMS that can handle the long haul traffic, along with London. Let BRU just be a regional airport, serving the EU bureaucracy!

TriStar - as SN hasn't made profits in 41 years, it hasn't had to pay any taxes on profits - so of course the Belgian taxpayer has been the loser!

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Spitfire
Posted 2001-10-03 15:50:33 and read 1039 times.

One more completly stupid statement from this stupid and totaly ignorant guy:

Taxes do not come only from profits!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: Ceilidh
Username: Air Orange
Posted 2001-10-03 15:54:29 and read 1032 times.

Ceilidh I respect your answer but I do not agree. London is not an option for continentals. I travelled often with the Eurotunnel and it is far of perfect. France has a totally different culture. AMS has reached its space limits; they try to create a mega hub on a mini poststamp.

No, the Benulux countries should take the oppertunity to make one fist by creating a competitive mega airport. Do not forget how many people in this area live! This almost world's most overcrowded area has a huge potential.

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Ceilidh
Posted 2001-10-03 15:57:19 and read 1028 times.

Spitfire - OK then, smartass, where is Sabena directly paying taxes from if not profits? And I don't want to hear anything about employee taxes etc!

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Spitfire
Posted 2001-10-03 16:04:05 and read 1020 times.

16 billions bef last year !!!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Ceilidh
Posted 2001-10-03 16:11:17 and read 1017 times.

My question was, where from exactly? Governments can't just mug companies for money, you know!

Topic: RE: Ceilidh And Spitfire
Username: Air Orange
Posted 2001-10-03 16:15:30 and read 1004 times.

Calm down boys, it's not worth. Take a Sisi!

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Spitfire
Posted 2001-10-03 16:20:24 and read 999 times.

Fuel taxes , landing fees, pax fees, airport fees, airways fees, taxes on works for third parties, and so on, and so on....

In Belgium there is 21% VAT on almost everything, didn't you know that?

Are you in aviation business ????????

Topic: RE: Ceilidh
Username: Teva
Posted 2001-10-03 16:20:30 and read 1000 times.

Ceilidh,
Europe is a continent (and GB... not an island anymore...)
But each country has different tax systems.
I don't know for Belgium, but at least they pay VAT.
In France, you could add "taxe professionnelle", "taxe fonciere" (for their properties) etc....
And here, as per your request, I donot mention the employee taxes.
Nana...

Topic: RE: Vat? More Power To The Eu?
Username: Air Orange
Posted 2001-10-03 16:33:23 and read 986 times.

Uhm, I was shocked by reading Spitfire latest reply. Why do we have no fuel taxes for airlines in Holland but we have them in Belgium? Strange, competition in the EU seem to be false. No wonder it is hard for Sabena to compete... We are the EU but all separate governments are still making their own "local" laws and rules. How selfishness! EU makes itself unbelievable. I pledge for more power to Brussels, and less power for EU countries!

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Airblue
Posted 2001-10-03 16:49:25 and read 971 times.

Air Orange,

fortunately EU is not yet a "one country", so each single state is able to decide their own taxes.
So it's possible that in one country VAT is 21%, in some others 19% and so on.

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Ceilidh
Posted 2001-10-03 16:50:10 and read 973 times.

There are no fuel taxes in Belgium - or the rest of the EU. As for VAT, all businesses claim it back and in fact EU airlines are exempt or zero rated! Passenger taxes are paid by the passengers as part of their tickets. Eurocontrol charges are not taxes. Rates (taxe fonciere) are paid to the local councils and not to central government.

So, Spitfire you actually haven't been able to come up with any corporate taxes paid by SN! Big grin Big grin Big grin

Topic: RE: To Bad To Sad Sabena Is Dead
Username: Petertenthije
Posted 2001-10-03 17:23:37 and read 954 times.

And even if they do pay taxes, it will probably be smaller than the subsidies they get. Therefore the Belgian government is stil making a loss out of SABENA.

Unfortunately I haven't got any numbers to back this up.


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