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Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2014-03-07 19:29:50 and read 154661 times.

Continuation of the discussion regarding MH370 flight, operated by a Boeing 777-200ER, declared missing enroute KUL-PEK.

Link to the First Thread
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)




Part 1 will be closed now that reaches around 250 posts.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Miami
Posted 2014-03-07 19:34:17 and read 154997 times.

Already on Wiki..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: turjo101
Posted 2014-03-07 19:35:46 and read 154829 times.

How likely is mid air collision?!? I mean the ac was supposed to be close to Vietnam. Anyone know anything about Vietnam ATC?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: wxmeddler
Posted 2014-03-07 19:37:41 and read 154387 times.

CIMSS is a satellight aggregate out of Wisconsin, they just put out these two images / gifs of weather conditions in the area:

Infrared:
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/blog.../03/140307_coms1_ir_mh370_anim.gif

Water Vapor:
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/blog.../03/140307_coms1_wv_mh370_anim.gif

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: TruemanQLD
Posted 2014-03-07 19:37:48 and read 154309 times.

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 2):

How likely is mid air collision?!? I mean the ac was supposed to be close to Vietnam. Anyone know anything about Vietnam ATC?

I would say very unlikely. Would have been reported by now

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: OOer
Posted 2014-03-07 19:39:08 and read 153709 times.

The best possible outcome at this point is that the airplane ditched and that at least some survivors are floating around on rafts.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: PROSA
Posted 2014-03-07 19:39:31 and read 153748 times.

Regarding the terrorism aspect ... it seems unlikely that Uyghurs would have targeted a MH aircraft, as Malaysia is an Islamic state. One of the Chinese airlines would have been a more likely target.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-07 19:40:44 and read 153105 times.

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 2):
How likely is mid air collision?!?

Current information indicates that the incident occurred while the airplane was at FL350. There have been no reports of other airliners or of military aircraft in the area having problems.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: kl838
Posted 2014-03-07 19:40:46 and read 153087 times.

I posted this in the other thread, but its locked now, I was asking whether or not MH would receive ACARS messages like AF did when the A330 hit the water?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-07 19:41:01 and read 153065 times.

Apparently, the ELTs are not transmitting or it would have been reported already. It looks very bad.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-07 19:42:04 and read 152435 times.

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 2):
How likely is mid air collision?!?

Not very. If it were with another plane, we'd know about it because either that plane would have survived to tell the tale, or we'd be talking about two missing planes in the same area. If it were with a bird (which is incredibly unlikely that that altitude, but there are birds that have been known to fly that high), it wouldn't have been enough to take down the airplane.

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: DCAYOW
Posted 2014-03-07 19:42:31 and read 152453 times.

CCTV is reporting that Vietnam has detected the missing planes "signal".

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2014-03-07 19:43:59 and read 152440 times.

Breakdown of Citizenship

1. China - 152 + 1 Child
2. Malaysia - 38
3. Indonesia - 12
4. Australia - 7
5. France - 3
6. USA - 3 + 1 child
7. New Zealand - 2
8. Ukraine - 2
9. Canada - 2
10. Russia - 1
11. Italy - 1
12. Taiwan - 1
13. Holland - 1
14. Austria - 1

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: antskip
Posted 2014-03-07 19:44:07 and read 152424 times.

MH370 code-shared with China Southern CZ448, who provided most of the passengers. Beijing Airport is a very sad place at the moment. Must be hell for those waiting there.

[Edited 2014-03-07 19:46:22]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: zeke
Posted 2014-03-07 19:44:09 and read 152440 times.

Normally heading out of KL on that route you are kept low as the outbound track crosses the busy Singapore inbound routes and the Bangkok Singapore route. You go from KL control to a Singapore radar on VHF, them as you get further out transfer to Singapore on datalink. Then transfer to Vietnam on datalink, often after transfer from Singapore to Vietnam you are initially out of VHF range.

They should have a good idea of the location.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Miami
Posted 2014-03-07 19:45:23 and read 151776 times.

MH releases nationalities of passengers on board MH flight 370

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-07 19:46:31 and read 151143 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
Not very. If it were with another plane, we'd know about it because either that plane would have survived to tell the tale, or we'd be talking about two missing planes in the same area. If it were with a bird (which is incredibly unlikely that that altitude, but there are birds that have been known to fly that high), it wouldn't have been enough to take down the airplane.

-Mir

Unless it was a military plane, still unlikely but the South China sea has a lot of activity and competing claims at the moment.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2014-03-07 19:48:03 and read 150429 times.

As to a mid-air collision, especially at 35,000 ft would also mean a second aircraft that is lost or has come up at some airport (ie: the bizjet that clipped a GOL airliner, the bizjet landed at a military airport, the Gol broke up and all lost on the Gol one). As far as we know now, that hasn't happened. Of course one can make all kinds of extreme speculation like as to a wayward Missile hit is (one theory on TWA 800's loss).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-07 19:48:26 and read 150412 times.

Quoting kl838 (Reply 9):
I was asking whether or not MH would receive ACARS messages like AF did when the A330 hit the water?

If they had the equipment to. That sort of thing isn't standard - it's a service that the airline has the option to set up and pay for.

However, it should be pointed out that ACARS is only useful if you can't find the FDR, as the FDR provides far more data to investigators. Once the FDR is recovered (which shouldn't be nearly as hard as AF447's was, as it's either on land or in water that isn't that deep), it'll give investigators plenty of information to work with.

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: JAGflyer
Posted 2014-03-07 19:51:22 and read 149787 times.

By "signal" they most likely mean ELT. The ELT does not activate unless a crash is detected or the pilot's manually enable it. That's not very good news but at least they have something to go on when it comes to locating the plane.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: manny
Posted 2014-03-07 19:55:47 and read 148465 times.

Vietnamese authorities have detected the plane's transmitter around 120 nautical miles (138 miles) southwest of Cape Ca Mau (Vietnam's southernmost point), in the middle of the ocean.

http://translate.google.com/translat...mui-ca-mau-120-hai-ly-2960870.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2014-03-07 19:58:43 and read 146962 times.

Just asking all to avoid discussion in regards to the quality of news. Please focus on the subject (i.e. the missing plane)





Moderators Team

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: CALPilot
Posted 2014-03-07 19:59:11 and read 147153 times.

I'm sure this will be lost in the post after post of people. Heck, maybe someone already shared.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: airplanedaj
Posted 2014-03-07 19:59:32 and read 147181 times.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 21):
By "signal" they most likely mean ELT. The ELT does not activate unless a crash is detected or the pilot's manually enable it. That's not very good news but at least they have something to go on when it comes to locating the plane.

In the US, I don't think commercial airliners don't need ELT's. I am a student at an aviation university in the US and that was covered in my Aviation Regulations class. This may not be true elsewhere in the world though. They may be mentioning the pingers on the black boxes though, if it crashed in water.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: kl838
Posted 2014-03-07 19:59:40 and read 147161 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
If they had the equipment to. That sort of thing isn't standard - it's a service that the airline has the option to set up and pay for.

However, it should be pointed out that ACARS is only useful if you can't find the FDR, as the FDR provides far more data to investigators. Once the FDR is recovered (which shouldn't be nearly as hard as AF447's was, as it's either on land or in water that isn't that deep), it'll give investigators plenty of information to work with.

Thanks Mir, it makes sense and hopefully there is some news very soon. It could be anything with such few details and information.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 21):

By "signal" they most likely mean ELT. The ELT does not activate unless a crash is detected or the pilot's manually enable it. That's not very good news but at least they have something to go on when it comes to locating the plane.

Thats not good news then, was hoping the aircraft landed in some forgotten airfield or something, but one could only hope and pray.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2014-03-07 19:59:55 and read 151887 times.

From the link below, there are claims as to an incident with this particular aircraft in August '12

http://www.smh.com.au/world/seven-au...e-goes-missing-20140308-hvgnx.html

Quote:
The missing plane is believed to have been involved in a crash in August, 2012, when it damaged the tail of a China Eastern Airlines plane at Shanghai Pudong Airport, according to unconfirmed reports.
In the incident, the tip of the wing of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 broke off.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: kiwiinoz
Posted 2014-03-07 20:00:14 and read 150548 times.

They are not that far off land. I would have thought the Vietnamese could send out a couple of choppers to take a look rather than just the rescue boats

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2014-03-07 20:02:39 and read 156142 times.

Quoting manny (Reply 20):
Vietnamese authorities have detected the plane's transmitter around 120 nautical miles (138 miles) southwest of Cape Ca Mau (Vietnam's southernmost point), in the middle of the ocean.

That report has been denied.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sing-vietnam-idUSL3N0M505Z20140308

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: flymia
Posted 2014-03-07 20:03:12 and read 155044 times.

Odd that they got no messages at all. Hoping for the best but at this point any positive outcome is such a small chance right now. Hope they can find the presume wreckage ASAP. US News outlets have not said much recently. Currently have CCTV on which I would imagine will spend most of the time on the MH 370. They are also reporting Vietnam officials have detected an ELT signal 120nm off the coast. Soon it will be time to figure out what happened, especially considering it is a 777. Which that is now being refuted. Interesting enough someone on CCTV in the Beijing airport just said they still have reports that the plane may have landed at another airport which I highly doubt is possible after this amount of time has passed.

CCTV just said the pilot was very senior with over 18,000hrs. MH does have a good safety record also.

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:07:32]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: celestar
Posted 2014-03-07 20:03:43 and read 155837 times.

I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.
Remember what just happened at Kunming
Malaysia had few enemies but remember there are 153 tourists on board and it looks like a good target for making a statement to China.
I totally detest terrorism against innocent people.
B777 or modern airplanes have sophisticated safety equipment. Considering what was known, two hours after took off, my horrible suspicion could be a very plausible.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-07 20:05:58 and read 154293 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 25):
From the link below, there are claims as to an incident with this particular aircraft in August '12

Even if a wing tip would be torn off mid-flight, it should not cause a catastrophic failure.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-07 20:07:43 and read 153708 times.

Quoting celestar (Reply 29):
I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.

People said the same about AF447...

And now other people are saying this incident reminds them of AF447... both theories are statistically likely to be wrong.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:07:45 and read 153072 times.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 26):
They are not that far off land. I would have thought the Vietnamese could send out a couple of choppers to take a look rather than just the rescue boats

They may have sent helicopters. There may not be much to see and what there is may be hard to spot.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Ab345
Posted 2014-03-07 20:08:29 and read 153248 times.

On this link you can see the damage the plane suffered from the previous incident with the A346

http://pic.feeyo.com/posts/569/5691311.html#5691316

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: JHwk
Posted 2014-03-07 20:09:10 and read 152244 times.

Sounds like it is near the Perhentians (Malaysia), closer than Vietnam

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: flymia
Posted 2014-03-07 20:10:39 and read 151275 times.

Quoting celestar (Reply 29):
I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.
Remember what just happened at Kunming
Malaysia had few enemies but remember there are 153 tourists on board and it looks like a good target for making a statement to China.
I totally detest terrorism against innocent people.
B777 or modern airplanes have sophisticated safety equipment. Considering what was known, two hours after took off, my horrible suspicion could be a very plausible.

Certainly possible. Unless an organization takes responsibility may takes months or even over a year to find out.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-07 20:10:39 and read 151334 times.

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 22):
The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.

I'm sure that will get a lot of press, but I don't believe it to be significant. Airplanes get damaged all the time, and they're able to be repaired to an airworthy state. The fact that this one was involved in a ground collision just means it was involved in a ground collision and was repaired. Nothing more can be drawn from that at this point.

Quoting celestar (Reply 29):
I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.
Remember what just happened at Kunming

Why would Islamic terrorists go after an airline from an Islamic country?

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: casinterest
Posted 2014-03-07 20:11:10 and read 151204 times.

Quoting manny (Reply 20):
Vietnamese authorities have detected the plane's transmitter around 120 nautical miles (138 miles) southwest of Cape Ca Mau (Vietnam's southernmost point), in the middle of the ocean.

Guess we will wait to see what the details are. If the plane's transmitter has been detected, do we know if it was on the surface or whether they already reached the site?




1:00-3:00 A.M again. Whatever happened, the Darkness and hour would not have helped the pilots much .

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Newark727
Posted 2014-03-07 20:12:27 and read 150491 times.

So we're sure now that this is 9M-MRO? Haven't been keeping up completely, but all we had on the registration earlier seemed a bit "best guess" from our amateurs here.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: silentbob
Posted 2014-03-07 20:12:41 and read 150224 times.

Quoting celestar (Reply 29):
I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.

They usually don't wait very long to claim responsibility

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: SWALUV
Posted 2014-03-07 20:13:59 and read 150320 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Airplanes get damaged all the time, and they're able to be repaired to an airworthy state. The fact that this one was involved in a ground collision just means it was involved in a ground collision and was repaired. Nothing more can be drawn from that at this point.

Would the damage the aircraft received in the ground collision cause significant stress on the remainder of the wing and begin to cause cracking?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: N867DA
Posted 2014-03-07 20:14:05 and read 149700 times.

It took seven years after botched repair to the aft bulkhead to bring down JAL 123 in 1985.We don't know what the condition of the MH777 is right now, but if it is indeed a hull loss I'm sure the A/C maintenance records will be scrutinized carefully.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Miami
Posted 2014-03-07 20:14:11 and read 150376 times.

Signal has been detected of 9M-MRO

A Vietnamese official of search and rescue said Saturday that the signal of the missing Malaysia Airlines 777 has been detected.

Signal of the 777 with 227 passengers and 12 crew members on board has been detected at some 120 nautical miles southwest of Vietnam's southernmost Ca Mau province.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:17:06 and read 148508 times.

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 40):

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Airplanes get damaged all the time, and they're able to be repaired to an airworthy state. The fact that this one was involved in a ground collision just means it was involved in a ground collision and was repaired. Nothing more can be drawn from that at this point.

Would the damage the aircraft received in the ground collision cause significant stress on the remainder of the wing and begin to cause cracking?

This would have been checked pre- and post-repair. Besides, aircraft components are designed and built not to fail due to failure of another part. Chain reactions are frowned upon.

Quoting Miami (Reply 42):

Signal has been detected of 9M-MRO

A Vietnamese official of search and rescue said Saturday that the signal of the missing Malaysia Airlines 777 has been detected.

Signal of the 777 with 227 passengers and 12 crew members on board has been detected at some 120 nautical miles southwest of Vietnam's southernmost Ca Mau province.

Read the thread please (Reply 27). This report has been denied by Vietnamese authorities. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sing-vietnam-idUSL3N0M505Z20140308

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 20:17:33 and read 148598 times.

Again, the report of a signal has been denied. It also doesn't seem to make sense given where flightradar data ends,

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sing-vietnam-idUSL3N0M505Z20140308

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: apfpilot
Posted 2014-03-07 20:19:04 and read 148796 times.

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 22):

I'm sure this will be lost in the post after post of people. Heck, maybe someone already shared.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.

Pic of the damage, doesn't look toooo bad. http://cdn.feeyo.com/pic/20120810/201208100951017177.jpg

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 20:23:15 and read 146162 times.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370

This was linked earlier. If that is the flight, then data was lost over land and early.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Kaphias
Posted 2014-03-07 20:25:50 and read 144917 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 46):
This was linked earlier. If that is the flight, then data was lost over land and early.

This kind of data loss occurs often with international flights on FlightAware and therefore it cannot be considered to be a reliable source in this case.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:27:38 and read 144116 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 46):
If that is the flight, then data was lost over land and early.

That doesn't look like 2 hours worth of flying. An earlier link to an avherald note said that communication was lost over the Gulf of Thailand.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: AirCalSNA
Posted 2014-03-07 20:28:21 and read 144377 times.

FWIW the NY Times most emailed news report concerns the apparently politically motivated criminal conviction of the Malaysian government most threatening opponent. Apparently there are some serious political forces at play in Malaysia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/wo...nced-in-sodomy-case.html?src=rechp

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 20:28:26 and read 143941 times.

When you look at the other flights, we only have data loss over China.

Are these tracks accurate, or have they simply been assumed?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: holzmann
Posted 2014-03-07 20:30:45 and read 142575 times.

Let's assume the first rule of a hijacking is to turn off the transponder. You could still see the AC on radar but it would not be immediately identifiable, right? What kind of flight radius would the AC have had with its last known position and fuel capacity? And what airports within that radius would have a long enough runway?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Miami
Posted 2014-03-07 20:32:51 and read 141387 times.

China has sent 2 ships for search and rescue operations in South China Sea. Keep on praying!

At this point, sadly. Survival rate should be low.      

If this is the case. May everyone on board MH flight 370 rest in peace.   

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:33:07 and read 140569 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 50):
When you look at the other flights, we only have data loss over China.

Are these tracks accurate, or have they simply been assumed?

Other flights where?

FlightRadar24 and FlightAware "lose" planes all the time simply because radar coverage (and automated position report upload I suppose) does not extend over all areas, including large parts of China. If there is a track on FlightRadar24 or FlightAware it is actual.

The FlightRadar24 track seems to have the entire flight, and the site points out that coverage over the area is good. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=678741775498582&set=a.116008071771958.7699.111607872211978&type=1&theater

Full playback. Search for MAS370. http://www.flightradar24.com/2014-03-07/16:50/12x/6.18,102.93/6

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2014-03-07 20:35:56 and read 139222 times.

What countries have started the search?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: EK413
Posted 2014-03-07 20:36:31 and read 138731 times.

I really am praying the aircraft is found with survivors onboard  
My thoughts and prayers to all.
R.I.P.

EK413

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2014-03-07 20:37:48 and read 138597 times.

First of all, all my thoughts and prayers goes with those aboard and their families.

I'm not speculating on any causes on why the aircraft goes missing, but somehow I don't feel we are dealing with act of terrrorism here.

Firstly, if someone had suggested the flight have been hijacked and landed somewhere that is within the hijackers control, surely they would have stated their demands right now, and they would make their demands being known by the world media, instead of being kept a low profile.

Second, if an on-board explosion did happen as a result of terrorism activities, someone would have claimed responsibility to the attack by now.

Despite the recent attack in Kunming, hypotethically speaking if those responsible were same group of perpetrators they would have a more concise statement attacking a Chinese-registered aircraft instead of an MH plane. Just my thoughts for now, we would see how this develop later on.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:39:07 and read 137875 times.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 51):

Let's assume the first rule of a hijacking is to turn off the transponder. You could still see the AC on radar but it would not be immediately identifiable, right? What kind of flight radius would the AC have had with its last known position and fuel capacity? And what airports within that radius would have a long enough runway?

Not necessarily viewable. You'd need primary radar for that and you might not have coverage over the ocean. The main point of transponders is to make flights trackable with only secondary radar.

Flight radius would be huge as it was bound for PEK. Just pulling some numbers out of the air, assuming 0.85 Mach it is just under 5 hours as the crow flies from KUL to PEK. (Of course, planes don't cruise at M0.85 the whole way but it is a place to start.) Given reserves etc, I'm guessing the plane would have been able to fly in excess of 6 more hours from the point of contact loss. Easily over 5000km. Note: very rough estimate!

The number of airports with a long enough runway in that radius is quite large. I'd guess at hundreds.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 54):
What countries have started the search?

Presumably Malaysia and Vietnam since the contact loss was between the two countries, but could also be Cambodia and Thailand.

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:41:19]

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:46:36]

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:51:59]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: KLAXAirport
Posted 2014-03-07 20:39:52 and read 137775 times.

Thoughts and prayers to all those on board and the family of those effected by this tragedy.

RIP.

KLAXAirport   

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:40:29]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: nutsaboutplanes
Posted 2014-03-07 20:41:20 and read 137417 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):

Watching the play-back and seeing the return for 370 disappear is heartbreaking.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:42:54 and read 136269 times.

Presumably Malaysia and Vietnam

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 59):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):

Watching the play-back and seeing the return for 370 disappear is heartbreaking.

Indeed. Unfortunately I can't get it to slow from 12x so I can't see what happens in the last moments. It goes from cruise to 0ft instantly given the compression. Anyone know how to slow the playback?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 20:44:54 and read 135594 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):
Other flights where?

The previous Malaysian flights on the route. Their tracks are uninterrupted until they reach China.

I was wondering about the difference with this flight, which seems to lose data over Malaysia, whereas all the previous flights appear to at least reach China.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: flymia
Posted 2014-03-07 20:46:30 and read 134946 times.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 51):
Let's assume the first rule of a hijacking is to turn off the transponder. You could still see the AC on radar but it would not be immediately identifiable, right?

It is not easy. During 9/11 they had a very hard time finding some of the airplanes high jacked which transponders were turned off.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: holzmann
Posted 2014-03-07 20:48:34 and read 134146 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 57):

Thanks. If we assume from the FlightAware map that signal was lost around coordinates 5°32'07.2"N 102°11'39.3"E and we assume the 5000km radius, then we have a map like this...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:51:14 and read 133192 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 61):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):
Other flights where?

The previous Malaysian flights on the route. Their tracks are uninterrupted until they reach China.

I was wondering about the difference with this flight, which seems to lose data over Malaysia, whereas all the previous flights appear to at least reach China.

Based on what we know, the data seems to indicate the transponder stopped functioning over the ocean between Malaysia and Vietnam. Other flights were "lost" by tracking sites over China probably because China either has no radar coverage there or does not upload data to FrightRadar24 et.al.

Quoting flymia (Reply 62):

Quoting holzmann (Reply 51):
Let's assume the first rule of a hijacking is to turn off the transponder. You could still see the AC on radar but it would not be immediately identifiable, right?

It is not easy. During 9/11 they had a very hard time finding some of the airplanes high jacked which transponders were turned off.

Indeed. Also a hijacking and continued flight would not fit the data which shows the plane at 0ft at the end of the track. It would show the last altitude report at cruise altitude. Then again that data is not validated as accurate.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: rj777
Posted 2014-03-07 20:51:22 and read 132952 times.

I just hope that if it did go down, it went down over land.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: kiwiinoz
Posted 2014-03-07 20:53:14 and read 132207 times.

Apparently another press conference from MH about to happen.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:53:30 and read 132315 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 60):
Unfortunately I can't get it to slow from 12x

12x means each minute is represented by 5 seconds. It looks to me (from flightradar24 anyway) that contact with it was lost at high altitude.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: mingocr83
Posted 2014-03-07 20:53:33 and read 134290 times.

EDIT THIS CAME JUST FEW SECS AGO

Yahoo singapore reports
Vietnam media quote Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat saying military radar recorded #MH370 crashing into sea 153 miles south of Phu Quoc island

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:58:40]

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:01:42]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 20:54:50 and read 131823 times.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 63):
Thanks. If we assume from the FlightAware map that signal was lost around coordinates 5°32'07.2"N 102°11'39.3"E and we assume the 5000km radius, then we have a map like this...

We can probably assume that the FlightAware position is inaccurate since FlightRadar24 has good data for a much longer distance and it is known the flight lost contact after two hours. Last known position as shown here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=678741775498582&set=a.116008071771958.7699.111607872211978&type=1&relevant_count=1

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2014-03-07 20:55:25 and read 131477 times.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 65):


If it did go down over land, I think there would be reports by now.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: PITrules
Posted 2014-03-07 20:57:28 and read 130858 times.

Quoting kiwiinoz,previous thread:
I don't know why people get upset about all the speculation. This is a site of aviation enthusiasts. We are not CNN. We are not accountable to fact check everything we say.i think it is perfectly normal for a group like this to bounce around all sorts of theories, (as enthusiasts on any topic would do)

The thing is, right or wrong this website has actually become a pretty common 'go-to' source for the media when events like this first break. For that reason I think we should do without the wild theories and keep things within educated analysis. At least for the first few hours or days of the event.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: manny
Posted 2014-03-07 21:00:19 and read 129382 times.

Again not sure if this is indeed accurate. Vietnamese Navy has confirmed plane crashed into sea.


http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: KBUF
Posted 2014-03-07 21:00:20 and read 130028 times.

The Vietnamese Navy has, sadly, confirmed that the plane crashed into the ocean.  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: aussie18
Posted 2014-03-07 21:00:55 and read 129676 times.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

This has just been posted.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: illinicmi
Posted 2014-03-07 21:01:21 and read 129606 times.

Apparently Vietnamese media reporting their navy has confirmed it crashed into the sea. Take it as you will.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:01:41 and read 129373 times.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

UPDATE [12:37]: Tuoi Tre, a leading daily in Vietnam, reports that the Vietnamese Navy has confirmed the plane crashed into the ocean. According to Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat, Commander of the Region 5, military radar recorded that the plane crashed into the sea at a location 153 miles South of Phu Quoc island.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: kiwiinoz
Posted 2014-03-07 21:02:15 and read 128156 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 71):

But it's then their job, (the media) to qualify what they report. It's certainly not our job.

MH just held their press conference but as far as I could tell, there was no new info.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:05:37]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: JOshu
Posted 2014-03-07 21:02:26 and read 128270 times.

News sources now reporting it crashed into the sea:

Quote:
UPDATE [12:37]: Tuoi Tre, a leading daily in Vietnam, reports that the Vietnamese Navy has confirmed the plane crashed into the ocean. According to Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat, Commander of the Region 5, military radar recorded that the plane crashed into the sea at a location 153 miles South of Phu Quoc island.

Link:
http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: richierich
Posted 2014-03-07 21:04:20 and read 127167 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 31):
And now other people are saying this incident reminds them of AF447... both theories are statistically likely to be wrong.

Agreed.
As I write this, the only similarity is that the MH aircraft is missing just as AF's was - until it was found!

Quoting Miami (Reply 42):
Signal of the 777 with 227 passengers and 12 crew members on board has been detected at some 120 nautical miles southwest of Vietnam's southernmost Ca Mau province.

Not good.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: ChaosTheory
Posted 2014-03-07 21:04:30 and read 127052 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
Normally heading out of KL on that route you are kept low as the outbound track crosses the busy Singapore inbound routes and the Bangkok Singapore route. You go from KL control to a Singapore radar on VHF, them as you get further out transfer to Singapore on datalink. Then transfer to Vietnam on datalink, often after transfer from Singapore to Vietnam you are initially out of VHF range.

They should have a good idea of the location.

Which high altitude airways is the flight likely to use?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:04:43 and read 127422 times.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18157/...e-has-not-entered-vn-airspace-caav

The Malaysia Airlines flight carrying 239 people from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing Saturday crashed off Vietnam’s Tho Chu Island, northwest off the country’s southernmost Cape Ca Mau, the Vietnamese High Command of Navy announced.

According to a High Command of Navy statement, the plane went down at the waters between Vietnam and Malaysia, some 153 nautical miles (300km) off Tho Chu Island in Kien Giang Province.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:05:29 and read 127210 times.

Well, we didn't want to hear that. Now we have a mystery to think about.

My condolences to the families.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:06:46]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: SQ452
Posted 2014-03-07 21:06:30 and read 126292 times.

This is starting to feel eerily reminiscent of the AF447 crash off Brazil. Hoping for the best and a positive outcome but it is unfortunately not looking good right now.

Thoughts and prayers are with the families at this moment.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: holzmann
Posted 2014-03-07 21:08:02 and read 126251 times.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 83):
This is starting to feel eerily reminiscent of the AF447 crash off Brazil. Hoping for the best and a positive outcome but it is unfortunately not looking good right now.

Yes but AF447 flew into one heck of a storm. I think the weather at least appeared clear in this case.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: damirc
Posted 2014-03-07 21:08:24 and read 125569 times.

Odd. The point 153 miles south of Pho Quoc is 360 miles from KUL. 2 hours flight time does not really fit ...

D.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: stackhouse007
Posted 2014-03-07 21:09:25 and read 125602 times.

Well since its confirmed to have crashed into the sea and they have sent rescue boats towards that location, how long will it take them to reach that spot?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: illinicmi
Posted 2014-03-07 21:11:16 and read 124451 times.

Quoting damirc (Reply 85):
Odd. The point 153 miles south of Pho Quoc is 360 miles from KUL. 2 hours flight time does not really fit ...

I thought this as well. Seems like one piece of info is wrong. We'll know which soon enough.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: 757223
Posted 2014-03-07 21:12:27 and read 123626 times.

It looks to me as if the reported location is in the vicinity of where FlightRadar24 stopped showing a return. Since this type of website uses ACARS data (I believe), having something there one minute and then gone the next leads me to believe that something sudden and drastic happened to stop the data from transmitting.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: turjo101
Posted 2014-03-07 21:12:46 and read 123585 times.

timeline does not make sense...

Should the plane not have been past the Gulf of Thailand- if in flight for 2 hours out of KUL?!?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2014-03-07 21:14:00 and read 123500 times.

Quoting manny (Reply 72):
The Vietnamese Navy has, sadly, confirmed that the plane crashed into the ocean.

Taking into account that statement by the Vietnamese navy is correct, who would be leading the investigation into this accident?

Will it be the Vietnamese or Malaysian aviation safety organisation? I would presume that Boeing and NTSB will assist the investigation process since it involved a boeing-made airframe, and I'm not sure if the Chinese would be participating since the most passengers on board were Chinese nationals?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-07 21:14:51 and read 122512 times.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 84):
Yes but AF447 flew into one heck of a storm.

Not really no.

Quoting damirc (Reply 85):
Odd. The point 153 miles south of Pho Quoc is 360 miles from KUL. 2 hours flight time does not really fit ...

Yup, this does not fot the information already released.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Tigerguy
Posted 2014-03-07 21:16:44 and read 121580 times.

Any reports of floating debris yet, or has it just been the military radar data so far?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:16:52 and read 121685 times.

We have 153 miles off of Tho Chu.

and

153 miles South of Pho Quoc.

Reported so far.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-07 21:17:00 and read 121968 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 91):
Not really no.

It flew into a storm that caused high altitude pitot tube icing, which was the start of the incident. Doesn't seem like that would be a factor here.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:18:12 and read 121556 times.

Must be 153 miles south of Phu Quoc and near Tho Chu?

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:21:12]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-07 21:18:48 and read 120951 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 91):
Quoting damirc (Reply 85):Odd. The point 153 miles south of Pho Quoc is 360 miles from KUL. 2 hours flight time does not really fit ...

Yup, this does not fot the information already released.

However, the reports also say:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 81):
northwest off the country’s southernmost Cape Ca Mau

That looks like more than 400 miles from KUL to me. Also north of where the flightradar24 information ceases.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 21:22:38 and read 119831 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 81):
According to a High Command of Navy statement, the plane went down at the waters between Vietnam and Malaysia, some 153 nautical miles (300km) off Tho Chu Island in Kien Giang Province.

How would they know that?

It seems like - from the GIF - that there was some moisture, but that shouldn't have made it crash. Could there have possibly been a fuel leak or an issue that prevented fuel from reaching the engines, therefore causing the e/q to come right out of the sky?

Do you think the plane would be sticking out or is there probable cause to think it - God forbid - sunk? If they latter, do you think it could be spotted?

My condolences to the families of the victims.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: KBUF
Posted 2014-03-07 21:22:42 and read 120598 times.

Emergency message sent to all vessels in the area:

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: TwoFourLeft
Posted 2014-03-07 21:23:17 and read 120220 times.

In just playing around with the ruler in Google Earth, if you were to draw a straight line from Kuala Lumpur to Phnom Penh, it looks like the crash site is about halfway between those two points.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2014-03-07 21:23:28 and read 120294 times.

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 22):
I'm sure this will be lost in the post after post of people. Heck, maybe someone already shared.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.

That is really not very major damage...of course, a poorly executed repair (like Japan Airlines 123) can change the game, though. I hope that the accident is not related to post-incident repairs 

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: PHX787
Posted 2014-03-07 21:24:10 and read 119510 times.

This is so sad. I'm getting multiple reports quoting the Vietnamese navy apparently finding the crashed plane.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2014-03-07 21:25:00 and read 120872 times.

Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, just east of Da Nang, Vietnam, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Edit: Scratch that, looks like deliberate turns assigned by ATC to establish non radar spacing over South China Sea.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:31:09]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: holzmann
Posted 2014-03-07 21:25:05 and read 119351 times.

So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated? These had not been installed on AF447.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:25:53 and read 119341 times.

The earlier report of an ELT was 120 miles SW of cape Ca Mau.

That is a rough match for 153 miles south of Phu Quoc, I think.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-07 21:26:32 and read 118509 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 94):
It flew into a storm that caused high altitude pitot tube icing, which was the start of the incident. Doesn't seem like that would be a factor here.

It flew into an area of icing, it never reached the storm.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 21:26:48 and read 118696 times.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysian-a...-flight-live-report-050312770.html

AFP via Yahoo - timeline of events.

"05:13 GMT - Never appeared - A Vietnam government statement on its official website quoting a ministry of defence official says the plane was meant to transfer to Ho Chi Minh City air traffic control at 1722 GMT but never appeared.

The statement goes on to say that Vietnam's Ministry of Defence has launched rescue efforts to find the plane, working in coordination with Malaysian and Chinese officials."

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:28:37]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-07 21:27:20 and read 118378 times.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 103):
So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated?

All commercial aircraft pitot tubes are heated.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: kaitak
Posted 2014-03-07 21:28:36 and read 117858 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 97):
Do you think the plane would be sticking out or is there probable cause to think it - God forbid - sunk? If they latter, do you think it could be spotted?

If it crashed into the sea, it would have disintegrated on impact (if it was still in one piece, which of course we don't know); debris and bodies would be floating on the surface, but the main parts of the fuselage would have sunk.

It is broad daylight now and if - as reported - the weather is calm - search aircraft would have found wreckage by now.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: damirc
Posted 2014-03-07 21:30:11 and read 117208 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):
Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Add TG610 to the list of looping planes:

http://www.flightradar24.com/TG610/2d914b4

D.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:30:38 and read 116789 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):
Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, just east of Da Nang, Vietnam, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 21:32:10 and read 115975 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 108):
It is broad daylight now and if - as reported - the weather is calm - search aircraft would have found wreckage by now.

Thank you, good to know.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 108):
If it crashed into the sea, it would have disintegrated on impac

How do we know that to be the case?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: turjo101
Posted 2014-03-07 21:32:39 and read 116342 times.

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL834/2d91525

another one is in process of doing another loop.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: airplanedaj
Posted 2014-03-07 21:32:40 and read 116261 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):

Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Thenoflyzone

Unfortunately, these planes are on the wrong side of Vietnam to be circling over the crash site, which is about 120-150 miles off the SW coast of Vietnam.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: stackhouse007
Posted 2014-03-07 21:32:45 and read 116275 times.

All 3 of these posted links to planes circling are in completely different places and the TG610 circling was over land..

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: PITrules
Posted 2014-03-07 21:32:47 and read 116080 times.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 77):
But it's then their job, (the media) to qualify what they report. It's certainly not our job.

I agree - when it comes to reporting facts. But before the facts roll in it is natural to bring in experts for their opinion. That's what CNN did by bringing in Greg Feith and James Kallstrom, and that's fine even though neither one of those guys know any 'facts' about the topic at hand at the time any more than we do.

It is great when members post weather charts, technical data about the B-777, draw comparisons to past accidents, etc etc. but when people state things like "My cousin Willie is a pilot so it must have been pilot error" or "Perhaps North Korea shot it down" I think it lowers the standard of this forum. Just MHO.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:36:40]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: turjo101
Posted 2014-03-07 21:33:48 and read 116179 times.

There maybe something we don't know...Otherwise why are all these aircrafts doing loops?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-07 21:34:21 and read 115478 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 104):
The earlier report of an ELT was 120 miles SW of cape Ca Mau.That is a rough match for 153 miles south of Phu Quoc, I think.

If the news report is accurate, the crash location was established from a miltary radar.

If the ELTs (Emergency Locator Transmitters) had been activated, they would have known immediately the crash location. The ELTs transmit GPS position of the crash as part of their signal. Apparently the same as with the AF447, the plane crashed into the sea with such a force that there was no time for the ELTs to activate.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:47:24]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2014-03-07 21:34:29 and read 115715 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 110):

Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.

Reports on CBC here in Canada was that the crash site might be on the East coast of Vietnam, in the South China Sea, which concurs with a 2+ hour flight time from KUL.

But as i edited above, i now believe the 360 turns are ATC related to establish non radar spacing over the Ocean.

Thenoflyzone

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 21:34:45 and read 115318 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 110):
Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.

Is the thought it crashed South-Southewest of Vietnam or South-Southeast of Vietnam?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: turjo101
Posted 2014-03-07 21:35:35 and read 115374 times.

Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Reffado
Posted 2014-03-07 21:37:38 and read 114569 times.

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):

In clear skies, you can see odd colored points (floating debris) in the ocean.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: timpdx
Posted 2014-03-07 21:38:29 and read 113808 times.

Just tuned into this story, so sorry to hear about the apparent loss of so many souls. RIP. At cruise altitude with no crew communication? Different than AF447 IMO, since landfall is so close and any distress coms should have been heard and the the flightradar shows some flights in proximity that could have heard a distress call. Any chance it was undetected damage from the wing strike leading to catastrophic failure and no radio call? Sea is is not deep in that area unlike AF447 so hope investigators get the data and voice recorders. Apparently first "mass casualty" fatal 777 accident...hope I am wrong.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:42:16]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: JBirdAV8r
Posted 2014-03-07 21:38:41 and read 113786 times.

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):
Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?

While it might be hard to detect debris specifically, a fuel sheen might be visible.

And it's better than nothing.

My prayers and thoughts are with everyone touched.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: AustinALlison
Posted 2014-03-07 21:39:42 and read 113768 times.

The reason they are looping is to search for wreckage in different spots. Cover more area, ya know.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: TwoFourLeft
Posted 2014-03-07 21:40:20 and read 113016 times.

I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: adityashankar
Posted 2014-03-07 21:41:33 and read 114922 times.

Hey guys,

It's bad news....

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2014/...sia-airlines-flight-mh370-missing/

Quote of the headline: "UPDATED: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, a Boeing 777-200ER has crashed near Vietnam"

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 21:42:34 and read 112797 times.

Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):
I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.

Now three planes near one another flying east in South China Sea. I am not sure why they were looping in that area based on discussions earlier in the thread.

http://www.flightradar24.com/CPA766/2d90d64

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:43:46 and read 112332 times.

So far the reports seem to have it near Tho Chu island in the Gulf of Thailand, but nothing has been confirmed.

One would think if it had crossed over Vietnam, we would know that from radar and other reports.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 21:43:59 and read 112713 times.

"05:25 GMT - Airline CEO's statement -
Malaysian Airlines is running a statement given by Group CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya on its Facebook site, in which he expresses his sadness and confirms Flight MH370 "lost contact with Subang Air Traffic Control at 2.40am, today."
He adds there has been "speculation" the plan had landed at Nanming, in China. "We are working to verify the authenticity of the report and others."
The statement also gives a breakdown of the 239 passengers and crew – comprising 227 passengers (including 2 infants), 12 crew members."

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysian-a...-flight-live-report-050312770.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: turjo101
Posted 2014-03-07 21:44:20 and read 111699 times.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 124):

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):
Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?

While it might be hard to detect debris specifically, a fuel sheen might be visible.

And it's better than nothing.

If this is so...they should also get planes over the Gulf of Thailand doing loops...
CX634 is approaching the area of last contact
as are AK1035

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2014-03-07 21:44:36 and read 111582 times.

Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):

They are not related. As mentioned above aircraft need to loose time when transitting from a radar type environment to a procedural type enviorment.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2014-03-07 21:44:40 and read 111566 times.

Reply 119 probably eludes best as to why they were circling...establish spacing

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: ZKOJH
Posted 2014-03-07 21:45:16 and read 112249 times.

just reading the press release from Malaysian airlines -

''The flight was piloted by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a Malaysian aged 53. He has a total flying hours of 18,365hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 1981. First officer, Fariq Ab.Hamid, a Malaysian, is aged 27. He has a total flying hours of 2,763 hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 2007.''

starts to ring bells of SFO again...

My wife's company has a group on board and is waiting at the airport.   what a shocking week for China.

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-07 21:45:19 and read 111569 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 128):
Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.
Now three planes near one another flying east in South China Sea. I am not sure why they were looping in that area based on discussions earlier in the thread.

See thenoflyzone's post 119 above.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:45:49 and read 111581 times.

The various reports are quite confusing...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Reffado
Posted 2014-03-07 21:51:47 and read 109262 times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

Christ, you guys are fast.   

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 21:53:14 and read 108102 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 118):
The ELTs transmit GPS position of the crash as part of their signal

I recall during research on the 787 ELT incident, that not all ELTs transmit GPS info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergen...cator_Transmitter#Beacon_Operation

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 21:53:39 and read 108059 times.

Quoting hivue (Reply 135):
See thenoflyzone's post 119 above.

I saw, thanks.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
''The flight was piloted by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a Malaysian aged 53. He has a total flying hours of 18,365hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 1981. First officer, Fariq Ab.Hamid, a Malaysian, is aged 27. He has a total flying hours of 2,763 hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 2007.''

I was waiting to find out that information. I was wondering if the captain did not have a lot of experience, but this proves the opposite. Even though the first officer was young, he was still with the airline for seven years.

If the captain was not paying attention or if he was on his rest period, I can see why you may bring up SFO. If the captain, however, was paying attention or fully awake in the cockpit, I am not sure if this was pilot error because he certainly was experienced.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

I know where you could get that idea from, but this is different because it was at cursing altitude and not during landing, which is a more dangerous state of flight. SFO had to do with speed and I am not sure we have anything to indicate that is the case here. At the same time, though, we have nothing to indicate speed was not a factor.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: FlyingSicilian
Posted 2014-03-07 21:54:57 and read 107488 times.

Quoting Reffado (Reply 137):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

Christ, you guys are fast.

Someone posted pictures of the flight manifest with all names on Facebook over an hour ago...

Thoughts and prayers to all involved in this. Still hopeing for a miracle but thinking the worst sadly.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 21:55:57 and read 107302 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 139):
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

I know where you could get that idea from, but this is different because it was at cursing altitude and not during landing, which is a more dangerous state of flight. SFO had to do with speed and I am not sure we have anything to indicate that is the case here. At the same time, though, we have nothing to indicate speed was not a factor.

And...call this speculation, which it is, but I find it very hard to believe it was caused by an error in speed in which it suddenly fell out of the sky because it was not going fast enough.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: TwoFourLeft
Posted 2014-03-07 21:57:04 and read 106561 times.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

WAAAAAAAAY too early to be making statements like that. We have absolutely no idea what took place that led to this accident.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Airvan00
Posted 2014-03-07 21:58:48 and read 105495 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 138):

Newer ELB's (406 MHz ) transmitt location information. I would expect that all airworthiness authorities now require that the latest style of beacons are fitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon

[Edited 2014-03-07 22:01:47]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-07 21:59:24 and read 105401 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 138):
I recall during research on the 787 ELT incident, that not all ELTs transmit GPS info.

No, but I am pretty confident that the 777 ELTs are GPS-capable.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: 747megatop
Posted 2014-03-07 21:59:28 and read 106286 times.

Vietnamese Navy has confirmed MH370 crashed off Vietnam coast -

http://www.thanhniennews.com/society...etnam-sea-navy-official-24480.html

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: ChaosTheory
Posted 2014-03-07 22:00:02 and read 105726 times.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 103):
So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated? These had not been installed on AF447.

The B777 has three heated pitots: left, centre and right. The primary flight display is not affected by a single pitot probe heat failure.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2014-03-07 22:01:56 and read 104798 times.

Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing? As per FR24 data, this would be around 40 mins from KUL, likely somewhere near waypoint IGARI. But multiple news reports indicate this was two hours away from KUL.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 22:07:56 and read 102652 times.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...200-had-uneventful-history-396793/

Here is a link to a story about the e/q and its history.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: SQ452
Posted 2014-03-07 22:09:35 and read 101796 times.

Quoting timpdx (Reply 123):
Apparently first "mass casualty" fatal 777 accident...hope I am wrong.

Yes you would be correct in saying that this would be the first "mass casualty" incident for this aircraft.

The only other 777 incident with fatalities was the Asiana crash in SFO last summer (3 fatalities).

This plane has a truly remarkable safety record when you think about it; it has been in service for 20 or so years and only suffered 3 hull losses before this incident, and only 3 fatalities associated with any incidents before today. Something must have gone terribly wrong enroute and we can all only speculate at this point.

It has been pointed out that this particular aircraft in question for MH was involved in a collision in PVG a couple years back where its wing clipped the tail of an MU A340-600. I don't believe that that would be something that would factor into this incident with MH370 unless it was structural fatigue from the repairs that just built up over a period of time. I would find that hard to believe given the plane would probably have gone through a rigorous inspection between now and today. I wouldn't rule it out completely though.

The parallel I drew with AF447 was that this flight just 'vanished' mid-flight; we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time), but the question I have is has there been any instances where the Pitot heating system failed on Boeing aircraft and in particular the 777?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2014-03-07 22:13:54 and read 101496 times.

How is the location of the crash identified? Beacon data or actual visual sing of debris?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-07 22:14:59 and read 101517 times.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 150):
How is the location of the crash identified? Beacon data or actual visual sing of debris?

I believe it was reported as radar data from a military base.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 22:16:02 and read 100414 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 71):

Quoting kiwiinoz,previous thread:
I don't know why people get upset about all the speculation. This is a site of aviation enthusiasts. We are not CNN. We are not accountable to fact check everything we say.i think it is perfectly normal for a group like this to bounce around all sorts of theories, (as enthusiasts on any topic would do)

The thing is, right or wrong this website has actually become a pretty common 'go-to' source for the media when events like this first break. For that reason I think we should do without the wild theories and keep things within educated analysis. At least for the first few hours or days of the event.

To quote Gonzalo's excellent post from a few years ago from: TK B738 Crash At Amsterdam - Part 5 (by WILCO737 Feb 25 2009 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):
Hi Everybody. After reading almost every post since thread Nº 1, sadly i have to say some of the members here have a wrong idea about the purpose of the forums here in A.net. Some people seems to hate any form of speculation and exchange of ideas...looks like the site has the responsability of release in the next days the final report of the accident and write the recomedations instead the Safety Board of the country where the accident happened. With all the respect you deserve , the whole concept of this forums, is the mutual exchange of information, ideas, speculation, people making questions, other people giving answers to those questions....that's the final purpose of any "Discussion Forum", of any kind, of any site....


I'll think most of us, pilots or not, industry workers or not, even simply aviation enthusiasts, we all already know this : The real causes of any accident, usually take months, even years before a final conclusion, supported by demonstrated facts, Blackboxes reading, and even more, sometimes ( sadly ), with all the technology we have today, a final conclusion is never founded.
Knowing that, why is so tasteless make assumptions ? why somebody can not have a theory of what happened and share with the rest of us ? Again, with all the respect, If you want only demonstrated facts, expect the 12, or 24, or 36 months, and read the Final report of the Safety Board. In the mean time, let us to talk, in a friendly way, in the A.net forums. Thank you.


Quoting holzmann (Reply 84):

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 83):
This is starting to feel eerily reminiscent of the AF447 crash off Brazil. Hoping for the best and a positive outcome but it is unfortunately not looking good right now.

Yes but AF447 flew into one heck of a storm. I think the weather at least appeared clear in this case.

Indeed. It is not the storm season in these parts for a few more months anyway.

Quoting 757223 (Reply 88):

It looks to me as if the reported location is in the vicinity of where FlightRadar24 stopped showing a return. Since this type of website uses ACARS data (I believe), having something there one minute and then gone the next leads me to believe that something sudden and drastic happened to stop the data from transmitting.

AFAIK they get transponder data Mode C and S data, not ACARS data.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 90):
Taking into account that statement by the Vietnamese navy is correct, who would be leading the investigation into this accident?

Will it be the Vietnamese or Malaysian aviation safety organisation? I would presume that Boeing and NTSB will assist the investigation process since it involved a boeing-made airframe, and I'm not sure if the Chinese would be participating since the most passengers on board were Chinese nationals?

Depends where exactly it crashed, Vietnamese or Malaysian waters. Lead is always the country where the plane crashed unless it crashed in international waters.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 103):
So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated? These had not been installed on AF447.

Pilot tubes on airliners are always heated. The ones on AF447 malfunctioned and that problem has been rectified.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 147):



Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing? As per FR24 data, this would be around 40 mins from KUL, likely somewhere near waypoint IGARI. But multiple news reports indicate this was two hours away from KUL.

Two hours flight as it flew perhaps. However the two hours figure seems to be from earlier reports.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: KC135Hydraulics
Posted 2014-03-07 22:17:54 and read 99241 times.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
The parallel I drew with AF447 was that this flight just 'vanished' mid-flight; we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time), but the question I have is has there been any instances where the Pitot heating system failed on Boeing aircraft and in particular the 777?

I'm sure that it has. Most systems will eventually fail for any reason after a given amount of time. The difference is, I doubt we'll find an incident whose direct cause could be contributed to a pitot heat failure like the one that occured on AF 447.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 22:19:30 and read 98497 times.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
This plane has a truly remarkable safety record when you think about it; it has been in service for 20 or so years and only suffered 3 hull losses before this incident, and only 3 fatalities associated with any incidents before today. Something must have gone terribly wrong enroute and we can all only speculate at this point.

I was just thinking that unfortunately, something must have gone very, very bad must have happened because 777s don't just fall out of the sky like that.

Do you think the e/q just - literally - dropped or do you think it would have slowed down while moving forward, like a normal landing, but because of the force of impact, it crashed into the ocean?

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time)

Will the black boxes even be found, so we can know what happened? If they are not found, we will never know.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 22:20:55 and read 97805 times.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
The parallel I drew with AF447 was that this flight just 'vanished' mid-flight; we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time), but the question I have is has there been any instances where the Pitot heating system failed on Boeing aircraft and in particular the 777?

Pitot systems do fail from time to time but two things are worth remembering in context:
- There are at least three independent air data systems on large airliners. The likelihood of them all failing is infinitesimal.
- Even without valid speed data, AF447 would have landed safely if the pilots had followed the checklist written for just such a situation. The pitots were out for less than a minute. In fact, dozens of A330 flights had had similar problems and landed safely. To quote SlamClick: Basic pitch and power, how many times does it have to save your life before you value it?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: 9V-SPJ
Posted 2014-03-07 22:25:24 and read 96581 times.

Flightradar24 uses ADS-B data which is the most "real-time" position of the aircraft since aircraft state data is reported by the aircraft itself, and because there are quite a few listener stations in the area, I would assume it to be very accurate.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: flyingbird
Posted 2014-03-07 22:25:58 and read 96687 times.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 146):
Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing? As per FR24 data, this would be around 40 mins from KUL, likely somewhere near waypoint IGARI. But multiple news reports indicate this was two hours away from KUL.

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/442171910361976832

#MH370 disappeared from radar after 40 minutes and not 2 hours as media has been reporting. Flightradar24 showed correct position 4 h ago.

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/442145510615289856

There is no doubt that the last reported position of #MH370 is about 150 km north east of Kuala Terengganu. pic.twitter.com/8YH1bL8iBD

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 22:28:05 and read 95328 times.

Do we know if the e/q squawked something unusual?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-07 22:29:41 and read 95717 times.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 147):
Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing?

A lot of conflicting reports, but the last transponder position as reported by FR24 (pin) is only roughly 60 miles (yellow line) from the location as reported by the Vietnamese Navy (according to Yahoo) 153 miles south of Phu Quoc (red line).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 22:32:01 and read 94752 times.


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Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Bruce
Posted 2014-03-07 22:33:11 and read 94349 times.

I realize its speculation but I'm going to put this out there. I think it was sabotage. The plane simply vanished during a level and routine part of the flight in fairly calm airspace. Also keep in mind the ETOPS system redundancy, if they had an engine or electric bus go out they would not have vanished. The 777 is a good plane. I can't think of any other reason the ELT beacon would not have gone off other than it was suddenly and violently ripped apart.

I certainly hope the black boxes are easier to find than AF447.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2014-03-07 22:35:25 and read 93372 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 157):
Do we know if the e/q squawked something unusual?

It didn't, which is inreresting.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: 757223
Posted 2014-03-07 22:35:48 and read 93422 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 158):
A lot of conflicting reports, but the last transponder position as reported by FR24 (pin) is only roughly 60 miles (yellow line) from the location as reported by the Vietnamese Navy (according to Yahoo) 153 miles south of Phu Quoc (red line)

I saw another report that said 153 NM South of Tho Chu Island, which is even closer to your yellow pin, flood.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: kl692
Posted 2014-03-07 22:36:09 and read 93711 times.

Malaysia Airlines plane crashes in South China Sea with 239 people aboard: report

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...lines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140308

Soo Sad

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-07 22:37:34 and read 93026 times.

"06:26 GMT - Ships sent - Faridah Shuib, a spokeswoman for the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency says Malaysian authorities have dispatched a plane, two helicopters and four vessels to search seas off its east coast in the South China Sea.
The Philippines says it is sending three navy patrol boats and a surveillance plane to help efforts.
06:24 GMT - No warning - The airline has said the plane relayed no distress signal or other indications of trouble."

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysian-a...-flight-live-report-050312770.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: amwest2united
Posted 2014-03-07 22:39:38 and read 92413 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 159):
I certainly hope the black boxes are easier to find than AF447

Gulf of Thailand is on average 148ft deep, max is 260ft, should make it much easier to find the black boxes

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: KFlyer
Posted 2014-03-07 22:43:24 and read 91328 times.

MH press conference just confirmed the last known location as being closer to the area reported by flightradar24.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hb88
Posted 2014-03-07 22:44:13 and read 90719 times.

The only quasi reliable information I can see in all the reports is the position and the report that the a/c lost height rapidly and changed track from 028 to 333 deg. To me this indicates some type of rapid decompression event coupled with the PF changing course from something near their original track to another, possibly attempting to head to nearest landfall. This could be consistent with an inflight emergency requiring an immediate landing. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2014-03-07 22:44:57 and read 90735 times.

Quoting Bruce (Reply 160):
I certainly hope the black boxes are easier to find than AF447.

The Gulf of Thailand has a maximum depth of only 260 ft/80 m so it shouldn't be as hard to find as AF 447. The suspected crash site is somewhere in the vicinity of the Gulf of Thailand and the nearby South China Sea.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: ryu2
Posted 2014-03-07 22:47:05 and read 90212 times.

Some of these things don't line up. MAS said they lost contact with Subang (guessing they mean Lumpur) Control 2 hours after takeoff. At that time, they should be long been handed over to Ho Chi Minh and in Vietnamese airspace, and not under Malaysian ATC control anymore.

If they had crashed at the point that FR24 or the place that Vietnamese navy was reporting (around waypoints IGARI or BITOD), then that should have been no more than 45 minutes flight time from KUL.

[Edited 2014-03-07 22:49:46]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: haynflyer
Posted 2014-03-07 22:50:01 and read 89932 times.

9:02PM: Vietnamese Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat confirms MH370 has crashed into the Gulf of Thailand 153 miles off of Thu Cho Island.

Source:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...sia-airlines-flight-mh370-missing/



Thu Cho (Thu Chao) islands are actually the small islands south west of the Vietnamese coast closer to KL than the map above shows.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2014-03-07 22:50:45 and read 89053 times.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 169):
Some of these things don't line up.

MAS said in their most recent conference that the site of lost contact is near the one given by flightradar24.
So...if you discount the whole 2 hour number it works.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: trent1000
Posted 2014-03-07 22:51:28 and read 89602 times.

I flew through nearby airspace Friday about 10-11 am local time on an A380 and we were all firmly strapped in from turbulence for at least 45 mins. The flight map showed a diversion, I assume to avoid worse weather conditions.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-07 22:52:18 and read 88554 times.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 169):
Subang (guessing they mean Lumpur)

I'm pretty sure it is Subang Control Area.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 169):
If they had crashed at the point that FR24 or the place that Vietnamese navy was reporting (around waypoints IGARI or BITOD), then that should have been no more than 45 minutes flight time from KUL.

That depends on the exact track. Flights can spend a lot of time getting "on course" while climbing out due to winds and traffic patterns.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: poolkeeper
Posted 2014-03-07 22:54:51 and read 88130 times.

I don't doubt they will locate the crash site rapidly. AF447 crashed outside radar/radio coverage and they had to search a huge area with great depths.
Here they had a radar tracking it and also the ADB-S position.

The "black box" should also transmit a radio signal which has limited reach under water but if they get close, they will find it fast.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: DIRECTFLT
Posted 2014-03-07 23:00:03 and read 87097 times.

Quoting Bruce (Reply 160):
I certainly hope the black boxes are easier to find than AF447.

Here is link to the NOAA depth chart for the Gulf of Thailand (Chart 93010)

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/NGAViewer/93010.shtml

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2014-03-07 23:02:01 and read 86335 times.

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 175):

It doesn't seem to work on my iPad. What is the depth in and around the area that we are talking about?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: DIRECTFLT
Posted 2014-03-07 23:05:51 and read 86415 times.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 176):

It doesn't seem to work on my iPad. What is the depth in and around the area that we are talking about?

55-67 Meters

The Page says Adobe Flash Player required to view the chart

[Edited 2014-03-07 23:08:07]

[Edited 2014-03-07 23:09:48]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2014-03-07 23:09:24 and read 85489 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 173):
Flights can spend a lot of time getting "on course" while climbing out due to winds and traffic patterns.

Define "a lot", shouldn't be more than 10 minutes in the worst case. Flight profile to altitude/position is very similar to prior flights.

Quoting poolkeeper (Reply 174):
The "black box" should also transmit a radio signal which has limited reach under water but if they get close, they will find it fast.

And it will be easier to pick up the big pieces off the bottom so if the cause is not apparent from the voice or data recorder the airplane structure may tell the story.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: trex8
Posted 2014-03-07 23:19:40 and read 83408 times.

No distress signal so bomb or sudden catastrophic structural failure or another MH 124 flight control anomaly but this time it really stalled unlike in 2005.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: SQ452
Posted 2014-03-07 23:19:47 and read 83381 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 153):
Do you think the e/q just - literally - dropped or do you think it would have slowed down while moving forward, like a normal landing, but because of the force of impact, it crashed into the ocean?

No idea. It's almost unheard of for a plane to just drop from the sky though.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 153):
Will the black boxes even be found, so we can know what happened? If they are not found, we will never know.

I imagine they will be found. The Gulf of Thailand is relatively shallow as has been mentioned in previous posts. If they can find the boxes for the Air France crash, they should find these.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 154):
Pitot systems do fail from time to time but two things are worth remembering in context:
- There are at least three independent air data systems on large airliners. The likelihood of them all failing is infinitesimal.
- Even without valid speed data, AF447 would have landed safely if the pilots had followed the checklist written for just such a situation. The pitots were out for less than a minute. In fact, dozens of A330 flights had had similar problems and landed safely. To quote SlamClick: Basic pitch and power, how many times does it have to save your life before you value it?

Thank you for the excellent analysis Starlionblue.

Quoting Bruce (Reply 160):
I realize its speculation but I'm going to put this out there. I think it was sabotage. The plane simply vanished during a level and routine part of the flight in fairly calm airspace. Also keep in mind the ETOPS system redundancy, if they had an engine or electric bus go out they would not have vanished. The 777 is a good plane. I can't think of any other reason the ELT beacon would not have gone off other than it was suddenly and violently ripped apart.

This will most certainly be considered a possibility. Too little is known at the moment but investigators will be looking at every possible angle until enough evidence is gathered to rule something out. Terrorism, sabotage, pilot suicide, mechanical issues with the plane, you name it, will all be considered by the investigators I'd imagine. It is incredibly eery that the plane just "dropped" from radar and vanished completely.

Main objective now is to find the plane and search for survivors. Thoughts and prayers to all those with loved ones onboard.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: zeke
Posted 2014-03-07 23:20:21 and read 82899 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 173):
I'm pretty sure it is Subang Control Area.

KL radar control to Singapore radar, Singapore area, then Vietnam.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: SQ452
Posted 2014-03-07 23:29:27 and read 81104 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 171):
MAS said in their most recent conference that the site of lost contact is near the one given by flightradar24.
So...if you discount the whole 2 hour number it works.

My gut tells me this is where the focus of the rescue mission should be concentrated. I'm not sure about the accuracy of the Vietnamese Navy reports so far as there seems to have been a lot of misinformation. China is sending two rescue ships to the South China Sea; I'd imagine the US may pitch in if they have Naval assets in the area. Time is of the essence at this moment.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-07 23:30:40 and read 80567 times.

What a horrible news, just woke up and saw this. I hope there are survivors but this looks bad...  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: NZ747
Posted 2014-03-07 23:34:33 and read 79659 times.

Very sad news. It does seem the search and rescue effort took a long time to initiate. Seems like MAS were planning for the best and not the worse, relying on unconfirmed reports the aircraft went to Nanming rather that putting together a swift search. If I had hundreds or aircraft at my disposal I would have at least sent some to the last known location and track to look.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Aesma
Posted 2014-03-07 23:41:55 and read 78017 times.

Wow I'm just learning about this, it's terrible !

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: vegas005
Posted 2014-03-07 23:42:13 and read 77668 times.

Shocking to me it took so long to organize search and rescue. Prayers to everyone involved.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: vegas005
Posted 2014-03-07 23:47:21 and read 77174 times.

From flightradar24 post on a Facebook:

A Boeing 777 from Malaysia Airlines has been missing between Malaysia and Vietnam for about 12 hours. Flight ‪#‎MH370‬ took off from Kuala Lumpur at 16:41 UTC time and disappeared from www.flightradar24.com at 17:20 UTC time.

At 23:24 UTC time Malaysia Airlines published a press release that aircraft has lost contact with ATC at 18:40 UTC (after 2 hours). This incorrect time report made media speculate all night about a crash in the jungle somewhere between Vietnam and China.

It took until about 03:00 UTC until a search and rescue operation was started in the area of Gulf of Thailand where Flightradar24 reported lost radar contact.

It feels very frustrating that the incorrect reports of lost contact after 2 hours has made that Flightradar24 data of lost contact after 40 minutes, has been ignored for so many hours.

Playback of flight MH370: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh370

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: fiscal
Posted 2014-03-07 23:57:22 and read 74577 times.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 179):
or another MH 124 flight control anomaly

Wasn't that due to some tape over the pitot? If I remember Perth Control assisted them to land safely back in Perth.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: trex8
Posted 2014-03-07 23:57:55 and read 74510 times.

Quoting NZ747 (Reply 184):

Very sad news. It does seem the search and rescue effort took a long time to initiate. Seems like MAS were planning for the best and not the worse, relying on unconfirmed reports the aircraft went to Nanming rather that putting together a swift search. If I had hundreds or aircraft at my disposal I would have at least sent some to the last known location and track to look.



MH don't have any SAR resources. The governments do. While one would hope an airline always knows where it's planes are they are dependent on ATC / radar resources which the airline does not control either.
The differences in time between last known flight position by various tracking systems and MHs announcements certainly need looking into. Neither MH or the Malaysian or Vietnamese authorities have " hundreds" of planes to send out to do a search even if they made every commercial airliner in the area do something. Plus the SAR capabilities of the relevant authorities are not exactly what one may characterize as the most robust in the world. Though they are also not close to non existent as in some other parts if the world!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-08 00:01:46 and read 73603 times.

Quoting poolkeeper (Reply 174):
The "black box" should also transmit a radio signal which has limited reach under water but if they get close, they will find it fast.

CVR plus DFDR plus at least one ELT should all be pinging if I'm not mistaken.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 178):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 173):
Flights can spend a lot of time getting "on course" while climbing out due to winds and traffic patterns.

Define "a lot", shouldn't be more than 10 minutes in the worst case. Flight profile to altitude/position is very similar to prior flights.

You are indeed correct. 2 hours seems to be a red herring.

Quoting zeke (Reply 181):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 173):
I'm pretty sure it is Subang Control Area.

KL radar control to Singapore radar, Singapore area, then Vietnam.

Thanks zeke for the correction.

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 187):
feels very frustrating that the incorrect reports of lost contact after 2 hours has made that Flightradar24 data of lost contact after 40 minutes, has been ignored for so many hours.

I think Malaysian Airlines and government organizations have rightly been reticent to provide information until it has been confirmed, verified and double checked. It is frustrating for bystanders but IMHO it is much better practice than in many historic crashes where a government spokesman has "solved" the mystery before the wreckage has even been found.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: trex8
Posted 2014-03-08 00:02:10 and read 73227 times.

Quoting fiscal (Reply 188):

Quoting trex8 (Reply 179):
or another MH 124 flight control anomaly

Wasn't that due to some tape over the pitot? If I remember Perth Control assisted them to land safely back in Perth.



No it was a software anomaly supposedly fixed
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,18592321-23349,00.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-08 00:04:31 and read 72721 times.

Quoting fiscal (Reply 188):
Quoting trex8 (Reply 179):
or another MH 124 flight control anomaly

Wasn't that due to some tape over the pitot?

No, that was a straight software glitch that allowed a failed attitude sensor to go unnoticed, and then to be used as a source of data when another attitude sensor failed (the plane has six of them, so lots of redundancy even with two failures, but a known bad source was allowed to be used - the problem has since been fixed).

-Mir

[Edited 2014-03-08 00:08:13]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-08 00:08:11 and read 71901 times.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 189):
Plus the SAR capabilities of the relevant authorities are not exactly what one may characterize as the most robust in the world. Though they are also not close to non existent as in some other parts if the world!

Maybe not the "most robust" in the world but I think you're underestimating the resources available in the area. You have Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Singapore the PRC, The Philippines, Indonesia and Brunei in what can reasonably be called the neighborhood. The amount of sea and air traffic in the area is very significant. While not perhaps "industrialized countries", Thailand and Malaysia are very far from being "third world countries". Vietnam is rapidly developing as well.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: DALFA
Posted 2014-03-08 00:08:15 and read 72118 times.

My goodness...Just woke up with this news. This must be the first 777 crash (besides the BA and OZ accidents) with so many fatalities  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2014-03-08 00:12:34 and read 71737 times.

Interesting tidbit from Flightglobal...

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...200-had-uneventful-history-396793/

Says the aircraft had an uneventful history, but based on posts above it did have that one incident....

Kind of expected better from FG...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: pilotaydin
Posted 2014-03-08 00:12:52 and read 71237 times.

If this is not suicide then we will learn very new things that need to be amended in training syllabus forms...

I wrote my thesis on automation learning methods and failure training...many cases show a clash between what is practiced versus what happens

The tk af and oz flights all showed this....

If this accident follows them then we have work to do...ive been pushing for changes in conferences around the world, lt us see

RIP

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LO231
Posted 2014-03-08 00:13:11 and read 70939 times.

OMG, I didnt read previous posts, hope they are ok and well...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-08 00:14:48 and read 70520 times.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 197):
OMG, I didnt read previous posts, hope they are ok and well...

Seems unlikely. And while it is a chore to read through 400+ posts, skimming them at least perhaps...

[Edited 2014-03-08 00:17:02]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: YYZatcboy
Posted 2014-03-08 00:15:58 and read 70527 times.

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 196):
I wrote my thesis on automation learning methods and failure training...many cases show a clash between what is practiced versus what happens

Do you have this online anywhere? Sounds like it would be fascinating reading.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 00:18:00 and read 69953 times.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 195):
Kind of expected better from FG...

I agree with FG. I think the wingtip incident was minor and will play no part in this crash.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: pilotaydin
Posted 2014-03-08 00:19:09 and read 69728 times.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 199):

I can get you a version but I would have to take out the names of airlines because I promised them the data collected would be used for education only...if this doesnt bother you it would be my pleasure

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: YYZatcboy
Posted 2014-03-08 00:20:41 and read 69940 times.

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 201):
I can get you a version but I would have to take out the names of airlines because I promised them the data collected would be used for education only...if this doesnt bother you it would be my pleasure

I don't mind in the slightest. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who would be interested as well. If you prefer though you can use my a.net email or PM me. YYZatcboy (at) airliners.net

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: DALFA
Posted 2014-03-08 00:22:01 and read 69855 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 200):
I agree with FG. I think the wingtip incident was minor and will play no part in this crash.

Exactly, doesn't seem like something that would cause a major decompression or anything like that.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: CanInelli
Posted 2014-03-08 00:23:57 and read 69458 times.

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 201):

pilotaydın, I would also love to read your thesis on "automation learning methods and failure training", would be glad if you can somehow upload or send an e-mail. My email is can (at) caninelli.com

Thanks

[Edited 2014-03-08 00:25:13]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2014-03-08 00:25:57 and read 69009 times.

Quoting DALFA (Reply 203):
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 200):

I don't think so either, but that's not the point

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: 2008matt
Posted 2014-03-08 00:29:53 and read 68258 times.

Was the aircraft out of radio contact at the time, or just 'lost' radio contact?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-08 00:40:52 and read 65658 times.

Just woke up to the terrible news. I am really shocked.

Quoting DALFA (Reply 194):
This must be the first 777 crash (besides the BA and OZ accidents) with so many fatalities  

It will be the 2nd 777 crash with fatalities.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: art
Posted 2014-03-08 00:50:03 and read 63350 times.

Tragic. May all on board RIP.

If the aircraft came down in an area where the water depth is less than 100m recovery of the black boxes should be relatively easy.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 00:50:42 and read 63305 times.

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 206):
Was the aircraft out of radio contact at the time, or just 'lost' radio contact?

Looks to have been well within range of many stations and listeners.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Prost
Posted 2014-03-08 00:56:50 and read 62030 times.

First of all, my thoughts and prayers for those who may have perished, and to a peaceful resolution for the family and friends of those on board.

My question goes into the 'is it possible' tangent. Would an airliner be brought down from a random meteor strike? I'm not talking huge sci-fi movie meteor, but even a small piece of space rock or space junk. I know the odds of this happening are so small, I guess I'm just curious if any aircraft would be able to survive the impact.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: axio
Posted 2014-03-08 01:00:58 and read 61212 times.

So the aircraft was within range of radio systems and transponder tracking, but did not issue any kind of mayday?

Are there things that can happen to an aircraft in flight that would cause such a catastrophic failure that no signal would be made? Or is this increasingly looking like being deliberate destruction of the aircraft (suicide, hijack, terrorism, etc)?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: AR385
Posted 2014-03-08 01:01:34 and read 61402 times.

I´m watching the BBC live and the DW live and both say no one from any government, neither MH have confirmed the plane has crashed. They are still listing it as missing. I wonder why so much secrecy with that? No conspiracy theories on my part but I find it very strange. Are they waiting to inform the families first before declaring it a crash or something else is going on?

They had correspondents both at PEK and KUL and both said the same.

As someone upthread mentioned, someone in the ocean is bound to have witnessed the crash, at least heard it and seen a flash as that area is filled with fishing boats, so I find it strange no boat has reported anything. Or we don´t know.

It is a very strange situation, if indeed the plane has crashed as there is no confirmation of anything of the sort yet. But if it did, the list of causes for a Boeing 777 falling from the sky so quickly without any distressed signal and at cruise in clear weather is not very long. My first assumption would be terrorism related but in the later years that type of terrorism has been muslim originated and Malaysia is a muslim state.

Rather than the AF 447 accident this one reminds me more of the Air India 747 lost to a bomb off the Irish coast in 1985.

Until some official entity confirms the crash, I will remain with my fingers crossed.

[Edited 2014-03-08 01:10:24]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 01:03:36 and read 61158 times.

UPDATE from Twitter/NBC: Jake Lichman ‏ Vietnam admiral says plane 'could have' crashed in Malaysian waters, denies reports quoting him saying the plane crashed Sky News Newsdesk Reuters: rescue official says Malaysian search ships see no immediate sign of wreckage in area where missing plane last made contact NBC News Malaysian Transport Minister Says No Sign of Plane Wreckage

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 01:05:45 and read 60455 times.

So we now have no idea where this 777 might be?

That's pretty frustrating.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-08 01:07:15 and read 60284 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 212):
Until some official entity confirms the crash, I will remain with my fingers crossed.

Apparently there is the Vietnamese government announcement regarding military radar appearing to show the crash, but it seems that Malesia wants to independently confirm the crash by locating the wreck.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: vegas005
Posted 2014-03-08 01:07:34 and read 60373 times.

Plane was 40 minutes into a flight and can't be found after 13+ hours?? Flightradar has the exact spot (more or less), what the heck is going on!!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 01:10:13 and read 59744 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 215):

Apparently there is the Vietnamese government announcement regarding military radar appearing to show the crash

That has apparently been retracted.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-08 01:11:07 and read 59575 times.

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 216):
Plane was 40 minutes into a flight and can't be found after 13+ hours?? Flightradar has the exact spot (more or less), what the heck is going on!!

It was 2 hours into the flight when contact was lost.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Phen
Posted 2014-03-08 01:11:36 and read 59617 times.

Such terrible news to wake up to. I hope despite what we all suspect, that somehow all abroad are safe      

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-08 01:12:47 and read 59049 times.

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 206):
Was the aircraft out of radio contact at the time, or just 'lost' radio contact?

From the FlightRadar24 data, it seems the transponder/ADS-B data stopped. There was most likely no constant voice contact.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 212):
I´m watching the BBC live and the DW live and both say no one from any government, neither MH have confirmed the plane has crashed. They are still listing it as missing. I wonder why so much secrecy with that? No conspiracy theories on my part but I find it very strange. Are they waiting to inform the families first before declaring it a crash or something else is going on?

IMHO it does not seem like secrecy, but like discretion and caution. I find this restraint admirable. Until such time as the aircraft can indisputably be listed as crashed, "missing" is an accurate description. Far better than all those accidents where the Mayor of Nowheresignificant has gone on TV before the wreckage has even been found and declared the "cause" of the accident.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 212):
It is a very strange situation, if indeed the plane has crashed as there is no confirmation of anything of the sort yet. But if it did, the list of causes for a Boeing 777 falling from the sky so quickly without any distressed signal and at cruise is not very long. My first assumption would be terrorism related but in the later years that type of terrorism has been muslim originated and Malaysia is a muslim state.

Terrorism is one possible cause, but there are a few others that come to mind. Decompression, structural failure, reverser deployment to name a few.

Quoting axio (Reply 211):

So the aircraft was within range of radio systems and transponder tracking, but did not issue any kind of mayday?

Are there things that can happen to an aircraft in flight that would cause such a catastrophic failure that no signal would be made? Or is this increasingly looking like being deliberate destruction of the aircraft (suicide, hijack, terrorism, etc)?

The pilot mantra in an emergency is, "aviate, navigate, communicate". Unlike in the movies, calling "Mayday, mayday, mayday", is far down the list of priorities. If the plane is plummeting from the sky, you work on recovery first, navigation second, and calling for help last. And if you're busy with recovery, you never get to the rest.

Looking at accidents like the Queens A300 disaster, a mayday call was never made because the pilots had more important things to do.

Things that can happen include decompression and structural failure. If you're still working the problem, you call for help when the situation has stabilized and not before unless you can spare the time to call.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: DALFA
Posted 2014-03-08 01:14:38 and read 58338 times.

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 142):

Is this actually something that could be manually switched off?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: whiplash
Posted 2014-03-08 01:16:18 and read 58394 times.

I checked the data on MH370 on Flight aware.. It shows the aircraft cruising at 500 something miles per hour at 35,000 and then the data just stops.. Could it be that this is what actually happened, or the site has taken out the rest of the data?
Because if this is as sudden as it looks, could be sabotage, bombing, mid-air.. Basically anything that messed with the integrity of the airframe in a quick fashion..
RIP to all the passengers and crew and condolences to all their families..

Hoping this doesn't take as much time as AF447 to be solved..

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-08 01:19:49 and read 57718 times.

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 216):
Plane was 40 minutes into a flight and can't be found after 13+ hours?? Flightradar has the exact spot (more or less), what the heck is going on!!

There's no conspiracy. It's the ocean and that's a big place. There's no exact location but there is reasonable certainly of where approximately the aircraft is. While the aircraft would have been transmitting location data until that was cut off, from that point it could have glided or plummeted or been a cloud of debris for quite some unknown distance and direction until it hit the water.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 214):

So we now have no idea where this 777 might be?

That's pretty frustrating.

"No idea" is a pretty strong statement. There seems to be clarity on the approximate area.

Quoting DALFA (Reply 221):
Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 142):

Is this actually something that could be manually switched off?

In theory you could switch off the ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter) but if the plane crashed the CVR and DFDR would still be pingining.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-08 01:24:48 and read 56512 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 212):

If we look at more recent cases of a modern, state of art airliner disappearing from cruising altitude we eventually come to LAM 470... And then just a short while ago the Ethiopian incident, a pilot hijacking his own plane.

All this has happened in just 5 months... Really makes one to wonder whether this could be somehow related, I hope it isn't...

Quoting whiplash (Reply 222):

Flightradar lacks coverage in some areas, maybe the aircraft just left the coverage area.

[Edited 2014-03-08 01:31:01]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: art
Posted 2014-03-08 01:28:35 and read 55584 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 212):
I´m watching the BBC live and the DW live and both say no one from any government, neither MH have confirmed the plane has crashed.

I think it is adequate to list it as missing until it is found or witnesses report it coming down. It is enough to know that the aircraft must have consumed all fuel loaded to be 100% sure that it cannot be in the air a certain number of hours after takeoff. It must be on the ground or in the sea.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-08 01:32:17 and read 54918 times.

Quoting Prost (Reply 210):
My question goes into the 'is it possible' tangent. Would an airliner be brought down from a random meteor strike? I'm not talking huge sci-fi movie meteor, but even a small piece of space rock or space junk. I know the odds of this happening are so small, I guess I'm just curious if any aircraft would be able to survive the impact.

It is likely that such an impact would not be survivable. However, it should also be said that the odds of such an impact are incredibly small. But yes, while it hasn't yet happened, there is no reason why it couldn't.

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 01:32:26 and read 55511 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 218):
It was 2 hours into the flight when contact was lost.

Then we have no idea where the plane might be. 2 hours would put it well beyond FR24's last plot.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 01:35:19 and read 55188 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 223):

"No idea" is a pretty strong statement. There seems to be clarity on the approximate area.

That seems to have been retracted and contradicted.

FR24 plot apparently ends at 40 minutes into the flight, yet officially contact was lost 80 minutes later than that.

The Vietnam admiral's report has apparently been retracted.

It sounds sort of like he was looking at FR24's plot.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: jc2354
Posted 2014-03-08 01:38:32 and read 54391 times.

They first thought the flight was 2 hours out, and now the thought is the flight was only 40 minutes out when contact was loss? To add to the theories, could the flight have been attempting to return to KUL?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2014-03-08 01:40:57 and read 54107 times.

Flightradar have noted that this area is where they have very good coverage, and looking at this photo taken at 17 21 UTC it gives a good idea of where it went down approximately:

http://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/10015170_841013005925852_2121573408_n.jpg

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 01:41:33 and read 54039 times.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiLh0L1CMAALcp-.jpg:large

https://twitter.com/AdrianNCF/status/442164000197853184/photo/1

That message seems to give roughly the FR24 plot as the place to search.

[Edited 2014-03-08 01:44:08]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2014-03-08 01:42:37 and read 54125 times.

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 229):
They first thought the flight was 2 hours out, and now the thought is the flight was only 40 minutes out when contact was loss? To add to the theories, could the flight have been attempting to return to KUL?

As mentioned earlier,

Quoting pvjin (Reply 224):

Flightradar lacks coverage in some areas, maybe the aircraft just left the coverage area.

This might explain the discrepancy: The moment the flight was no longer tracked by flightradar24.com could be completely unrelated to the (presumed) crash.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 01:44:03 and read 53691 times.

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 229):
They first thought the flight was 2 hours out, and now the thought is the flight was only 40 minutes out

Well KUL to SGN is less than two hours flight, and if the flight went down between Malaysia and Vietnam in the Gulf of Thailand, then 40mins makes much more sense. I am also sure there would be a record of them going back if it had really lost contact after 2 hours.

I'm kinda curious and a bit hopeful: What would be the chances of a soft water landing assuming systems were OK, etc., and that they would have managed to deploy the rafts? Has there been a large, widebody airliner landing on water in the ocean in recent times in which people managed to deploy rafts and use them (this obviously excludes the US plane on the Hudson)?

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 01:46:46 and read 52981 times.

http://www.fallingrain.com/waypoint/SN/IGARI.html

That looks like it matches the SAR message.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-08 01:46:49 and read 52985 times.

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 229):
They first thought the flight was 2 hours out, and now the thought is the flight was only 40 minutes out when contact was loss?

Who say anything about 40 minutes? So far, from what I have read, the only known thing is that contact was lost 2 hours into the flight.


Also, some members here believe that flightaware/flightradar24 are 100% correct. The information from both websites is not always accurate, and there is no way one can draw any conclusions based on info from them.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 01:48:34 and read 52634 times.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-ai...-plane-carrying-239-022306951.html

Quote:
At KLIA, the brother of a passenger says relatives are being told to bring a valid passport because they need to 'travel to the crash site'. Relatives have to be at KLIA before 6pm with valid passports for MAS to make 'travel arrangements'.

 

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-08 01:49:41 and read 52693 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 230):
Flightradar have noted that this area is where they have very good coverage, and looking at this photo taken at 17 21 UTC it gives a good idea of where it went down approximately:

Remember that Flightradar is not actually radar - the positions it generates are based on broadcasts from the aircraft themselves. There are several limitations to this. One is that the receivers must have line of sight with the aircraft in order to receive their signals (this is why you don't see aircraft over the Atlantic or Pacific - the ones you do see are predicted positions of aircraft in FAA-controlled airspace). The second, and more important here, is that the aircraft must be broadcasting. If a serious electrical malfunction occurred that caused the airplane to stop broadcasting its position, Flightradar would not pick it up anymore, but the airplane might still be flying.

So we can consider the Flightradar image as the last known position, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's close to where the airplane eventually ended up.

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 01:49:55 and read 52621 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 235):
Who say anything about 40 minutes? So far, from what I have read, the only known thing is that contact was lost 2 hours into the flight.

If by "into the flight" you mean after takeoff, then the a/c would have already been over land.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2014-03-08 01:52:04 and read 51865 times.

This is just very sad to read about. I am hoping for a miracle, but it seems that it wont be very likely ... 

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-08 01:56:05 and read 51076 times.

Quoting Prost (Reply 210):

probability of that happening is infinitely small, but there is a chance. And one day it will happen for certain. Whether that would take out an airliner depends on size, angle and of course, where it hits.

before giving out our RIPs, lets just hope that it's not the worse case scenario... Until wreckage or an official announcement is made, we can but pray.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 01:56:40 and read 51057 times.

Why would the SAR message say to look near IGARI if that wasn't a good place to look?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-08 01:58:16 and read 50783 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 238):

Quoting B747forever (Reply 235):
Who say anything about 40 minutes? So far, from what I have read, the only known thing is that contact was lost 2 hours into the flight.

If by "into the flight" you mean after takeoff, then the a/c would have already been over land.

Quote from: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20140308-0

"The Boeing 777-2H6ER took off from Kuala Lumpur Interational Airport's runway 32R at 00:41 and climbed to a cruising altitude of FL350.
Subang Air Traffic Control reported that it lost contact at 02.40 (local Malaysia time)"

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-08 01:59:26 and read 50873 times.

Based on FR24 it looks like MH52 to Osaka flew over the same area where this flight disappeared just 20 minutes earlier, it didn't disappear from FR24 screen.

That would suggest the disappearance of MH370 from flightradar screen wasn't related to it getting out of coverage area. But then again if it was lost 2 hour into the flight that would have been a lot later than when it disappeared from FR24, the disappearance from FR24 could be just random anomaly, or maybe some of the information about disappearance time is false.

[Edited 2014-03-08 02:08:54]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-08 02:00:36 and read 50435 times.

The search is going on since... about 14 hours? And still no trace found?

I'm saddened and I'm shocked. And I don't believe I'll be able to work this weekend, re-checking a.net every 10 minutes or so...  

I'm sure the lessons of AF447 have been learnt through and through. That intermittent pitot icing is not a danger (as about 30 jets, 330 and 777 alike, have suffered this, but most crews have chosen not to do anything - and nobody died). And that you can fly all the way down to the sea while still believing to climb.

If we rule out a bomb or hijacking, it somehow must be an accident we can learn a lot from.

RIP to the passengers and the crew members. Comfort to their families and friends.


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 02:00:53 and read 50377 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 242):
"The Boeing 777-2H6ER took off from Kuala Lumpur Interational Airport's runway 32R at 00:41 and climbed to a cruising altitude of FL350.
Subang Air Traffic Control reported that it lost contact at 02.40 (local Malaysia time)"

I'm just saying that after 2hrs it would already be over land. You call them and tell them they're looking in the wrong place then.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: hodja
Posted 2014-03-08 02:05:44 and read 49542 times.

See "Background Story" section:

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-2

"1.22 am - The plane was meant to transfer to Vietnam's Ho Chi Minh air traffic control but never appeared."

I suspect 2:40am is the time Subang officially *reported* the aircraft missing - not the time contact was lost, which was at 1:22am, about 41 mins after departure.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-08 02:05:53 and read 49496 times.

Can someone explain what 'lost contact' means?
Was it during a conversation that the transmission ended all of a sudden
Or that after x hrs of flight, and when ATC wanted to contact them, they never answered that call?

*Still hoping...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: AF185
Posted 2014-03-08 02:09:09 and read 48673 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 244):

And only 1h or 2h to go before dusk.. Let's hope they can locate the a/c by then

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-08 02:09:48 and read 48841 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 245):
I'm just saying that after 2hrs it would already be over land. You call them and tell them they're looking in the wrong place then

I am just quoting what is out there.



Interestingly, the avherald has a different timeline:

"was enroute at FL350 about 120nm northeast of Kota Bharu (Malaysia) over the Gulf of Thailand in contact with Subang Center (Malaysia) just about to be handed off to Ho Chi Minh Air Traffic Control Center (Vietnam) when radar and radio contact was lost at about 01:22L (17:22Z Mar 7th). Subang Air Traffic Control Center officially told the airline at around 02:40L (18:40Z Mar 7th) that the aircraft was missing."

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0


So radar contact was indeed lost 40 minutes after take off, but was only reported over an hour and twenty minutes later.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 02:09:53 and read 48771 times.

Quoting hodja (Reply 246):
I suspect 2:40am is the time Subang officially *reported* the aircraft missing - not the time contact was lost, which was at 1:22am, about 41 mins after departure.

This makes much more sense. Thanks.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-08 02:11:50 and read 48589 times.

Quoting hodja (Reply 246):
"1.22 am - The plane was meant to transfer to Vietnam's Ho Chi Minh air traffic control but never appeared."

I suspect 2:40am is the time Subang officially *reported* the aircraft missing - not the time contact was lost, which was at 1:22am, about 41 mins after departure.

I think you are might be right, the way the aircraft disappeared from FR24 at just that time, 1:22AM although other aircraft in the area were being shown just fine would suggest that might indeed be the time of the accident.

[Edited 2014-03-08 02:13:32]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: tozbek
Posted 2014-03-08 02:14:25 and read 48959 times.

Malaysian 777 registrated 9M-MRO was damaged wingtip in 2012
http://kokpit.aero/malaysian-777-9m-mro-wingtip-damage

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: horstroad
Posted 2014-03-08 02:18:12 and read 48450 times.

Quoting 456 (Reply 247):
Can someone explain what 'lost contact' means?
Quote:
when radar and radio contact was lost at about 01:22L (17:22Z Mar 7th)

quote from avherald.

not only radio contact, but also radar contact.

I'm wondering why the ATC waited 18 minutes to report it missing at 17:40Z, when the radar signal is was lost at 17:22Z. is this standard to wait so long? does radio signal get lost frequently in that area?

[Edited 2014-03-08 02:22:33]

[Edited 2014-03-08 02:23:13]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2014-03-08 02:18:23 and read 48154 times.

I have seen a ton of questions as to why the plane has not been found yet, and some poor communications. Could it have something to do with Vietnam? I mean, does the country have a swift response to something like this? For some reason, I just don't picture Vietnam having a world class coast guard, or a sophisticated way to do a good search and rescue. Please correct me if I am wrong. I obviously know nothing about Vietnam and the Capabilities they have to respond to a major crash.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-08 02:26:37 and read 46589 times.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 254):

Well if it indeed disappeared 40 mins into the flight (instead of 2 hours) it would have been near Malaysian coast, far away from Vietnam. I wonder if they have been looking from wrong area all the time...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-08 02:34:51 and read 47536 times.

Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 3:

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Regards,

SA7700


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