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Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-08 21:23:34 and read 109840 times.

As part 4 is became quite long, it was locked for further contributions. Part 5 is now open for further discussion:

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Thanks and regards,

SA7700

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2014-03-08 21:28:23 and read 110032 times.

Anyone else thinking that the oil streaks may be due to dumping fuel as they were returning back to KUL?

That debris field mentioned late in previous thread looks ominous.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 265):
As in the case of AF447... they didn't... by the time they did... they were swamped with their own problems.

I would argue that they really didn't diagnose that they were in grave danger until it was way too late. That was kinda my point. They were confused more than anything.

Quoting danvs (Reply 273):
it has been posted that Italians and Austrians (besides some other nationalities) do not need visas to enter China if they're in transit.

They can transfer for multiple days. Doesn't need to be just a layover. If these guys are to blame don't we think that the visas don't really matter anyway because evidently they were planning on making a move before that?

Quoting Reffado (Reply 309):
Is it something with the 777? Will this crash reveal serious issues with parts as AF 447 did? There are a lot of these planes flying around, I hope whatever happened here is an isolated case.

There have been over 5 million flights on 777 and up until the last year, zero deaths from flight operations (one ground crew accident as he was trying to fill the plane with gas). Its a very safe plane.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 312):
Pilot hijacking is not possible given the track records of both pilots.

The ET pilot that just hijacked a 767 and flew it to Zurich had a similar record to the copilot.

tortugamon

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 21:30:30 and read 109823 times.

Reposting here as my last post in the other thread came after the cut and will likely be deleted:

"Plane's turn back was seen on military radar; one reason for the turn back was to return to KLIA: Air force chief"
https://twitter.com/STForeignDesk/status/442530590022066176

"5 passengers did not board flight, their bags were removed from the plane: Civil aviation chief"
https://twitter.com/STcom/status/442531277925650432

"Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: Debris spotted but unclear if it's from MH370, says Chinese official"
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...otted-unclear-if-its-mh370-chinese

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2014-03-08 21:31:40 and read 109834 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 1):
Quoting Reffado (Reply 309):
Is it something with the 777? Will this crash reveal serious issues with parts as AF 447 did? There are a lot of these planes flying around, I hope whatever happened here is an isolated case.

There have been over 5 million flights on 777 and up until the last year, zero deaths from flight operations (one ground crew accident as he was trying to fill the plane with gas). Its a very safe plane.

And the one accident wasn't the fault of the airplane. In fact, it was in some ways a testimony to the airplane. A 777 slams into a concrete wall and cartwheels down the runway and only two people are killed in the crash. Still too many and tragic, but the design of the airplane prevented far more deaths.

Over 1000 build over 20 years and about as flawless of a safety record as you can get. Yeah, there is something wrong with the airplane (sarcasm intended).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 21:33:55 and read 109685 times.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiQO9p5CQAAd1-B.jpg

Link to debris field pic.

Looks too uniform to me.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Reffado
Posted 2014-03-08 21:34:17 and read 109303 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
Yeah, there is something wrong with the airplane (sarcasm intended).

I never said there was, don't get me wrong. I do know that the 777 is a very safe plane. But then again, so was the A330 before AF 447. We all know that something really small can turn into a big disaster when it comes to aviation. I'm just pointing out a possibility, which, IMHO, is much more likely than say, a meteor hitting the plane.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 21:34:16 and read 109320 times.

I had a question about the timeline (my last post) and CNN is reporting that:

"The Boeing 777-200ER departed Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 12:41 a.m. Saturday in good weather, and it was expected to land in Beijing at 6:30 a.m., a 2,300-mile (3,700-kilometer) trip.
Air traffic controllers in Subang, outside Kuala Lumpur, lost contact with the plane about 1:30 a.m., Rahman said. Earlier, the airline said the jetliner lost contact at 2:40 a.m."

Thus, the plane had been airborne for less than an hour before losing contact with Subang ATC. Does this sound about right??

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: timpdx
Posted 2014-03-08 21:35:00 and read 109358 times.

If that photo was taken at the same time as the photographer took his seatback map display image, this is well north of the supposed location.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: drew777
Posted 2014-03-08 21:35:36 and read 109290 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 4):
Looks too uniform to me.

And taken from 11,000 meters. So they would need to be large uniform pieces.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-08 21:36:00 and read 109269 times.

Is there any possibilities that we are looking this plane in the wrong area? Remember adam air case?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: turjo101
Posted 2014-03-08 21:36:01 and read 109338 times.

Quoting vr-hkg (Reply 2):
"Plane's turn back was seen on military radar; one reason for the turn back was to return to KLIA: Air force chief"
https://twitter.com/STForeignDesk/status/442530590022066176

If the plane was turning back, but the pilots had no time to either call 'pan' or 'mayday', or squawk hijack, then couldn't it be that they were occupied with something serious...like a cockpit fire + loss of oxygen?
***Cockpit fire like that on EgyptAir 772 ER.

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7&opt=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYV_K7FAI5g

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 21:36:08 and read 109404 times.

http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/6aca1bebjw1ee97m0dug6j20xc18g447.jpg

Higher res version.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 21:37:12 and read 108946 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 4):

Hmmm....any confirmation? Looks like some type of debris to me...not sure of what though.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: timpdx
Posted 2014-03-08 21:37:20 and read 108961 times.

If that photo was taken at the same time as the photographer took his seatback map display image, this is well north of the supposed location.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-08 21:38:54 and read 108660 times.

Reposting from the last thread in case it gets deleted:

Quoting wxmeddler (Reply 322):
The only thing that doesn't make sense for a terrorism attack is that no org. has claimed responsibility. The whole point of a terrorist org. is to terrorize, thus make a claim on their attack.


Let's assume for the sake of argument that it was terrorism, and that a bomb exploded onboard. Eventually, that would be discovered by investigators, and at that point the public would know. If the public doesn't know who did it, that's not going to make those who would feel uncomfortable flying any less uncomfortable. So there's no real need to claim responsibility in order to terrorize - normally a group claims responsibility if they want a certain set of demands met. If a group does claim responsibility, however, then they can be fairly sure that China will be coming after them and coming after them hard and fast (likely other countries as well, but China would be the main one). They may not want to deal with that. It all comes down to whether the terrorists involved would rather be public figures for as long as it takes China to catch up with them or would rather not be public figures but retain the ability to operate for a longer period of time. Both are valid options depending on their agenda.

But we're getting way ahead of ourselves here, as there is no evidence that it was terrorism, and I prefer to not go down that road unless there are solid signs pointing that way.

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Halophila
Posted 2014-03-08 21:39:15 and read 108677 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 11):
Quoting timpdx (Reply 7):

I concur. If this was in the middle of the ocean, I'd be inclined to say "that's it!". But if this is where the IFE map says it is, then it's probably trash or other debris from SGN...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 21:39:21 and read 108622 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 12):
Hmmm....any confirmation? Looks like some type of debris to me...not sure of what though.

No confirmation, and I don't expect any.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-08 21:43:33 and read 108034 times.

Quoting drew777 (Reply 8):
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 4):
Looks too uniform to me.

And taken from 11,000 meters

If that's taken from 11,000 meters, there's no way that could be debris. Too spread out, and far too many burning pieces (which are most likely lights on the ground).

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 21:43:56 and read 108020 times.

Reply to post 338 from the previous thread: "If that moving map photo is the correct location of where those photos were taken, I would contest that it is debris/trash from the mainland... "

I would concur. Looks too uniform in size, and too densely packed to be debris that's been awash for this long.

From the SCMP info that this was an MAS flight from Peking to Kuala Lumpur arriving Sunday AM, and the timestamp on the moving map, it'd presumably be 1h 35m or so before arrival on this flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M...1/history/20140308/1730Z/ZBAA/WMKK

No track log though, so can't place where it'd have been more precisely than in the pic, but it sure looks pretty close to land and well away from the previous search area, not to mention even further from the just-declared search area in the Straits of Malacca. I'm thinking this is a red herring from the SCMP.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AS737MAX
Posted 2014-03-08 21:44:47 and read 107670 times.

Is this "debris" glowing?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 21:46:28 and read 107390 times.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/03/20_employees_of_freescale_semi.html

20 employees of Freescale Semiconductor of Texas were aboard missing Malaysia Airlines plane

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Kaphias
Posted 2014-03-08 21:46:50 and read 107333 times.

Quoting AS737MAX (Reply 19):
Is this "debris" glowing?

What time local was the photo taken? Could have been the orange glow from the sunrise.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: rj777
Posted 2014-03-08 21:46:58 and read 107340 times.

If it's not from MH370, what else could it be from?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-08 21:48:30 and read 107112 times.

I am soo pissed that my country didnt send or offer any help in finding the plane. And 7 of our citizens aboard that plane.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: infinit
Posted 2014-03-08 21:48:31 and read 107058 times.

Looking at the replies in the previous threads, I realise there is very little understanding about this part of the world.

Firstly, Malaysia is not an Islamic state. 60% of its population is Muslim and some in the country want the state to be Islamic but it is technically secular. The royalty has been playing varying degrees in politics over the years but the first king of Malaysia post independence said the state is secular and always be.

Secondly, some have asked why some of the crew names sound 'Western' and some sound Chinese.. Malaysia and Singapore (the other country in the Malayan Peninsula) are ethnically diverse. Different from Japan in that regard for comparison. Malaysians an Singaporeans are largely ethnic Malay, Chinese, Indian, Eurasian and a huge number of ethnic minorities. Citizens from both countries could look like anything and have names that sound like anything. My dad who is Singaporean like me has medium-brown hair and green eyes.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-08 21:49:32 and read 110846 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 9):
Is there any possibilities that we are looking this plane in the wrong area? Remember adam air case?

You look at it from the last known spot.
Now hearing the military wanting to search for the aircraft in the Malacca straits only gets me to shake my head... if they go down this path this will quickly turn into another Adam Air search fiasco.

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 338):
Has anyone considered pilot suicide as another probable cause? After the LAM accident it is something we must also consider.

After reading into the background of the Captain, and talked to some of his friends, I find it extremely unlikely. I'm curious as to the First Officer's background and story though, although, it's not for public discussion as yet.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 21:50:10 and read 110852 times.

"Plane's turn back was seen on military radar; one reason for the turn back was to return to KLIA: Air force chief"

This seems like a real piece of information and probably will be an important fact. Seems like there was a maneuver, but we dint know the reason for this maneuver.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 21:50:21 and read 114181 times.

Quoting Kaphias (Reply 21):
What time local was the photo taken? Could have been the orange glow from the sunrise.

5:39am Ho Chi Minh City time, assuming it was taken at the same time as the moving map image. (Which seems likely.)

So yes, right around sunrise.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 21:51:23 and read 113719 times.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 22):
If it's not from MH370, what else could it be from?

We don't even know what it's a picture of...

Might even be lights from boats or a city...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: huxrules
Posted 2014-03-08 21:52:16 and read 113431 times.

The last photo says "local time at departure 6:39" so it's before sunrise. I think this is either fire out at sea or more likely villages at night. We are not sure what side of the plane the photos are taken on - if it's the port side then it could be a patch of flaming debris but it hey were taken on the starboard I'd wager that it'd a village. As for oil rigs it looks too dense.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AS737MAX
Posted 2014-03-08 21:52:52 and read 113173 times.

Quoting Kaphias (Reply 21):

Reply 18 estimates about 1:35 before 8:14 am, so roughly 6:20am

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2014-03-08 21:53:16 and read 113226 times.

Quoting Reffado (Reply 5):
I never said there was, don't get me wrong. I do know that the 777 is a very safe plane. But then again, so was the A330 before AF 447. We all know that something really small can turn into a big disaster when it comes to aviation.

The point is that you determine how safe an airplane is by how few accidents it has over a certain number of flights. There have been 5+ million flights. Therefore it is a safe plane. Proportionally, and by definition, there is far greater likelihood of something that does not have to do with the manufacture of the aircraft. Now if they do uncover something that is specific to the airplane then they will fix it and as 5+ million flight have already happened it shouldn't be an imminent serious risk for the global fleet because it would have happened before now, and, the problem would be fixed in the global fleet if necessary. So, no, this could definitely be a disaster but the outcome of this will not be a doubt about how safe the 777 is.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 6):
Air traffic controllers in Subang, outside Kuala Lumpur, lost contact with the plane about 1:30 a.m., Rahman said. Earlier, the airline said the jetliner lost contact at 2:40 a.m."

There is an hour time zone change between KUL and Vietnam so that could be a 10 minute difference depending on the source.

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 10):
If the plane was turning back, but the pilots had no time to either call 'pan' or 'mayday', or squawk hijack, then couldn't it be that they were occupied with something serious...like a cockpit fire + loss of oxygen?

It would be great to get a pilot's perspective but I don't think you initiate a complete 180 to fly back to KUL without alerting ATC for a vector and clearance.

tortugamon

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AS737MAX
Posted 2014-03-08 21:54:42 and read 112824 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 23):

I believe Singapore has sent out a C130 to search, not 100% sure

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 21:54:51 and read 113052 times.

What would cause a pilot to turn back without saying anything or squawking anything?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-08 21:55:06 and read 113363 times.

From thread 3 :

Quote:
The Egyptair cockpit fire involving their 777-200ER (SU-GBP) stemmed from electrical fault with a supply hose in the cockpit crew oxygen system.

A cockpit fire, with loss of pilot oxygen would account for this mystery, maybe even the muffled sounds reported by the plane ahead of MH370.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-08 21:55:40 and read 112976 times.

Quoting infinit (Reply 24):
Firstly, Malaysia is not an Islamic state.

Article 3 of their constitution says otherwise:

Islam is the religion of the Federation; but other religions may be practised in peace and
harmony in any part of the Federation.


http://confinder.richmond.edu/admin/docs/malaysia.pdf

It's tough to read that as anything other than the country being an Islamic state, albeit one that does not mandate adherence to Islam or otherwise restricts religious freedom. Or to put it another way, technically Islamic, in practice secular.

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 21:57:47 and read 112762 times.

"It would be great to get a pilot's perspective but I don't think you initiate a complete 180 to fly back to KUL without alerting ATC for a vector and clearance. "

If there was a severe event or an acute emergency as it seems in this case, wouldn't the pilots take prompt action first before getting clearance or communicating?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: penguins
Posted 2014-03-08 21:59:10 and read 112253 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 1):
Anyone else thinking that the oil streaks may be due to dumping fuel as they were returning back to KUL?

Given the lack of debris in that area, that theory seems plausible. To return to KUL, I do not know.



Quoting Halophila (Reply 15):
I concur. If this was in the middle of the ocean, I'd be inclined to say "that's it!". But if this is where the IFE map says it is, then it's probably trash or other debris from SGN...

If MH370 was some how off course then that could be the wreckage. However, I doubt that was the case.

What I am most worried about are the four fake passports. Even if this is not a hijacking, how will the system be reformed so it can never happen again. Is it possible that the pilots were in on this with the passport holders (if that is the case)?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 21:59:34 and read 112008 times.

Quoting AS737MAX (Reply 30):
Reply 18 estimates about 1:35 before 8:14 am, so roughly 6:20am

Clock says 6:39am at departure (Beijing), which is one hour after Ho Chi Minh City time (nearest city), so that puts it at 5:39am local. Sunrise in Ho Chi Minh City is currently around 6:03am, so only about 20 minutes before sunrise -- brightening sky, but sun not yet up.

Initially I didn't see what people meant by "lights", but it just suddenly clicked for me, and now I'm thinking city lights too. No smoke and fire wouldn't likely be burning this long later anyway; fishing boats wouldn't be that densely-packed, so it's either trash / debris (which doesn't make sense to be clearly visible before sunrise) or city / village lights.

[Edited 2014-03-08 22:00:54]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Kaphias
Posted 2014-03-08 22:01:28 and read 111641 times.

Quoting huxrules (Reply 29):

The last photo says "local time at departure 6:39" so it's before sunrise. I think this is either fire out at sea or more likely villages at night. We are not sure what side of the plane the photos are taken on - if it's the port side then it could be a patch of flaming debris but it hey were taken on the starboard I'd wager that it'd a village. As for oil rigs it looks too dense.

Looking at the sunrise times for the area, and having spent enough time living near and flying over the water, and flying over cities at night... this looks very much to me like a bunch of plywood floating around on the water at dawn/sunrise. Doesn't look anything like any city/village I've ever seen.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:01:48 and read 113082 times.

This is NOT a pic of the debris. I fly HKG-SIN twice every week on UA and I have seen this. This pic was taken at night. They're actually flower plantations in Vietnam. I took a few pics a couple of weeks back to make a nice instagram pic, but it turned out too blurry. I can guarantee from my own personal experience, that this pic is not of debris but rather of the very irregular shape of flower farms in Vietnam.



Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 22:02:50 and read 111653 times.

"Chief of Air Force: Baffled by no signal from emergency beacon on plane."
https://twitter.com/H2OComms/status/442535824379215872

"Chief of Air Force: There is a possible indication that the aircraft made a turnback. Also possible that turnback was to KLIA."
https://twitter.com/H2OComms/status/442533562097483779

"Chief of Armed Forces: We have also done a land search using our helicopters. Also focusing on waters on the west coast."
https://twitter.com/H2OComms/status/442533164833968128

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 22:04:23 and read 111176 times.

Quoting Kaphias (Reply 39):
this looks very much to me like a bunch of plywood floating around on the water at dawn/sunrise.

The photo is from 11,000 meters / 36,000 feet, remember. That would be a HECK of a lot of plywood from that height.



"Chief of Air Force: Baffled by no signal from emergency beacon on plane."
https://twitter.com/H2OComms/status/442535824379215872

"Chief of Air Force: There is a possible indication that the aircraft made a turnback. Also possible that turnback was to KLIA."
https://twitter.com/H2OComms/status/442533562097483779

"Chief of Armed Forces: We have also done a land search using our helicopters. Also focusing on waters on the west coast."
https://twitter.com/H2OComms/status/442533164833968128

[Edited 2014-03-09 04:20:11 by SA7700]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: wxmeddler
Posted 2014-03-08 22:04:44 and read 110776 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 11):

From cruise? I'm thinking that's rural lights not debris.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: dtfg
Posted 2014-03-08 22:04:48 and read 111198 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 34):
From thread 3 :

Quote:
The Egyptair cockpit fire involving their 777-200ER (SU-GBP) stemmed from electrical fault with a supply hose in the cockpit crew oxygen system.

A cockpit fire, with loss of pilot oxygen would account for this mystery, maybe even the muffled sounds reported by the plane ahead of MH370.

MAS confirmed the reports of aircraft that was flying near MH370 and contacted them were false.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: rdu2sfo
Posted 2014-03-08 22:07:04 and read 110566 times.

For those who are from the region/more knowledgable than I...is my google mapping correct that the Malacca straight is on the other side of the peninsula? How could this plane possibly have gotten to that side without being identified on radar?

Also regarding a turnback, wouldn't that have been captured on the fr24 track? Is there a reason that might only have been captured by military radar?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2014-03-08 22:07:47 and read 110760 times.

I'm not sure if anyone have discussed this before but I was curious.

Regarding the 2 mysterious passengers with stolen passports, did any more information was disclosed (other than they were purchasing the ticket from CZ), were they flying in J or Y class, or which seats they were allocated in the flight??

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 22:10:07 and read 110359 times.

"Also regarding a turnback, wouldn't that have been captured on the fr24 track? Is there a reason that might only have been captured by military radar? "

That's a good question. You would think fr24 would have recorded that turn.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: drew777
Posted 2014-03-08 22:11:33 and read 109691 times.

Quoting rdu2sfo (Reply 45):
..is my google mapping correct that the Malacca straight is on the other side of the peninsula?

Yes, that would be the west coast

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:12:08 and read 110067 times.

Quoting rdu2sfo (Reply 45):
is my google mapping correct that the Malacca straight is on the other side of the pen

Correct, but it seems bizarre they are now looking over in the Malacca Strait.

Quoting wxmeddler (Reply 43):
From cruise? I'm thinking that's rural lights not debris
Quoting vr-hkg (Reply 42):
The photo is from 11,000 meters / 36,000 feet, remember. That would be a HECK of a lot of plywood from that height.
EXACTLY! See my reply above. They are flower farms in Vietnam, NOT debris.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AAEXPlat
Posted 2014-03-08 22:13:48 and read 110354 times.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 46):
QUOT

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 22:13:52 and read 109490 times.

Quoting wxmeddler (Reply 43):

From cruise? I'm thinking that's rural lights not debris.

I meant to put "debris", as I am sure it isn't.
 

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: wxmeddler
Posted 2014-03-08 22:15:00 and read 108906 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 47):

Not if there was a major electrical malfunction and the transponder went out. If they are looking in the Malacca straight, it could be that they had a major malfunction and turned back only to fight/fall slowly down until crashing. Horrible to think about, but possible.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Kaphias
Posted 2014-03-08 22:16:29 and read 108262 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 49):
EXACTLY! See my reply above. They are flower farms in Vietnam, NOT debris.

I'll take your experience in the area over my less educated guess. Can you find an example of the farms on Google Earth/Satelitte maps that shows something at least similar to what we're looking at here? Being such a wide area (as it is, as was said, seen from 11,000 meters) this exact layout should be fairly easy to find.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:16:59 and read 108954 times.

Very interesting AAEXPlat, and it seems these were bought in Thailand, since the far is in Thai Baht. And given the two passports were stolen in Thailand...   

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: lparky
Posted 2014-03-08 22:19:14 and read 108072 times.

and the e ticket numbers are one digit apart possibly indicating they were bought at a similar time

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: stuyyz
Posted 2014-03-08 22:19:59 and read 108491 times.

tickets # purchased by fake passport holders were sequential. Clearly linked.
Also, they both have a connection to AMS, so am I right there would be no visa-checking?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 22:22:09 and read 107081 times.

The "debris" does resemble lit greenhouses if you imagine a lot of them on the coast.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-08 22:22:33 and read 107042 times.

Quoting AS737MAX (Reply 32):
I believe Singapore has sent out a C130 to search, not 100% sure

but not Indonesia. this is a shame.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: bfiguy
Posted 2014-03-08 22:23:07 and read 107266 times.

Can you translate the date of issue of these tickets please?

[Edited 2014-03-08 22:31:06]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 22:23:07 and read 107515 times.

AAEXPlat, those look like tickets in the name of the Austrian and Italian who list their passports and who were not on the flight. If indeed these are images of the legit tickets, then it is interesting that they have consecutive ticket numbers and both flying to AMS and onward. Very interesting!! Any confirmation of these ticket images? Where were they found/source?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: rdu2sfo
Posted 2014-03-08 22:23:32 and read 107424 times.

It seems very suspicious to me that those tickets are sequential, seemingly purchased together, with the same connection in PEK, but different final destinations.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:24:03 and read 106934 times.

This could certainly point us in the direction of terrorism, although we cannot be certain. Also, AAEXPlat, what is the source of those? Having flown domestically in China a lot, they look like legit eTickets, but they could easily be faked.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: redadeco
Posted 2014-03-08 22:24:34 and read 106784 times.

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 56):

tickets # purchased by fake passport holders were sequential. Clearly linked.
Also, they both have a connection to AMS, so am I right there would be no visa-checking?

Yes I flew KUL-PEK-FRA three months ago and I haven't been visa-checked.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 22:25:49 and read 106818 times.

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 56):
Also, they both have a connection to AMS, so am I right there would be no visa-checking?

Was about to point that out. And booked almost concurrently, yet with different flights / final destination from the second flight, too.

Definitely looks suspicious to me.

[Edited 2014-03-08 22:27:25]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: danvs
Posted 2014-03-08 22:26:21 and read 106387 times.

According to FR24, flight MAS361 (PEK-KUL) was near position 10.57 107.84 at 22:39Z (06:39 Beijing time).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2014-03-08 22:26:39 and read 106566 times.

Many thanks AAExplat for the picture posted. Looks like they are flying on a discounted economy? Seems like a long route to fly from KUL to CPH. If they hold the exact same copy of air ticket, they would have known that they are flying MH (and not CZ), as indicated by some earlier theories.

Will be interested to know which seats they were allocated if the authorities disclosed them.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 58):
but not Indonesia. this is a shame.

While not participating in the search process, heard on the local Jakarta media that Indonesia is considering to send their police DVI team to help identification process of the victims, which most probably will take place after the debris location is found.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:26:50 and read 106209 times.

Quoting bfiguy (Reply 59):
Can you translate the date of issue of these tickets please?

There's no date of issue. The Chinese above just says "Date of Issue"

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:27:59 and read 106326 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 57):
The "debris" does resemble lit greenhouses if you imagine a lot of them on the coast.

That is exactly what they are. Trust me on this. The pic is taken over land, at night.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 22:28:13 and read 105783 times.

Also, tix in Thai currency.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: ycp81
Posted 2014-03-08 22:28:30 and read 106765 times.

http://news.163.com/14/0309/12/9MT5NSUU0001121M.html

Another Chinese source with images from the reservation system.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-08 22:28:40 and read 106195 times.

Quoting rdu2sfo (Reply 45):
Also regarding a turnback, wouldn't that have been captured on the fr24 track? Is there a reason that might only have been captured by military radar?

If accurate, it would mean that the plane's transponder was off and the military radar would show the plane's movement regardless of the transponder being off.

It is quite difficult to explain why the plane would have flown a substantial range and the crew not making a distress call or activatig the ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter) after the transponder went off.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: seat55a
Posted 2014-03-08 22:28:45 and read 106021 times.

The suspicious tickets could also fit the mission profile of common everyday drug mules.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: pilotalex14
Posted 2014-03-08 22:29:02 and read 106734 times.

Although not the most credible source but not good news at all.

"RT
BREAKING: Malaysia airlines flight MH370 carrying 239 people crashed into the sea, Vietnamese state media says. However these reports have not been confirmed by Malaysia Airlines. READ MORE: Posted 2014-03-08 22:29:07 and read 106344 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 62):

I have posted their ticket numbers. You may also retrieve the ticket details from Saudi Arabian Airlines website.
What's really interesting is that they bought the ticket at the same time, by the same agent, and ONE DAY BEFORE DEPARTURE.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: grimey
Posted 2014-03-08 22:30:30 and read 105708 times.

Quoting AAEXPlat (Reply 50):

Where did you get that from? There is no ID reference in that so does that mean they didn't show passports when buying the tickets?

This whole thing is becoming more strange by the hour

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: wxmeddler
Posted 2014-03-08 22:32:14 and read 105201 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 69):

Fairly cheap too.. 604 USD for a trans-continental trip. Note also, one way.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: loalq
Posted 2014-03-08 22:32:15 and read 105381 times.

That's a loooong way to get from KUL to either FRA or CPH...

KUL-PEK-AMS-CPH
KUL-PEK-AMS-FRA

Suspicious by itself. On the other hand, this whole fare is shown as costing around 600usd?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 22:32:15 and read 104964 times.

Quoting danvs (Reply 65):
According to FR24, flight MAS361 (PEK-KUL) was near position 10.57 107.84 at 22:39Z (06:39 Beijing time).

So just off the coast from Ham Tan, which does look approximately the right shape for that light pattern.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AAEXPlat
Posted 2014-03-08 22:32:27 and read 105918 times.

Quoting grimey (Reply 75):

GDS system.
E-ticket document: 784-2280116100 Passenger: MR. CHRISTIAN KOZEL Booking reference:
Issuing agent: 35306611
Issue place: PYX
Issue date: 06 March 2014 Trip status: Confirmed

E-ticket document: 784-2280116099 Passenger: MR. LUIGI MARALDI Booking reference:
Issuing agent: 35306611
Issue place: PYX
Issue date: 06 March 2014 Trip status: Confirmed

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AS737MAX
Posted 2014-03-08 22:32:46 and read 104877 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 58):

Sorry, mixed up the 2 countries

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:33:19 and read 105052 times.

Quoting ycp81 (Reply 70):
Another Chinese source with images from the reservation system.

And it seems to show the CZ codeshare numbers (CZ 748 seems to match MH 370).

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-08 22:33:19 and read 105588 times.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 46):
Regarding the 2 mysterious passengers with stolen passports, did any more information was disclosed

And they have sequential ticket numbers too... But before anyone jump and say "haha! This is the smoking gun"... consider:
1. Two drug dealers; or
2. Two illegal immigrant wannabes;
Buying 2 tickets together after successfully sourcing the illegal passports...

Hey, anything's possible right?

Anyway... those who wondered about the ACARS... specifically SATCARS... 9M-MRO has no SATCOM antenna on it. So if there was any ACARS, it'll be through the terrestrial VHF/HF...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 22:33:48 and read 105617 times.

http://img1.cache.netease.com/cnews/...14/3/9/20140309124209342ee_550.png

Supposed image of the ticket info...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2014-03-08 22:35:05 and read 104785 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):

Quoting wxmeddler (Reply 322):
The only thing that doesn't make sense for a terrorism attack is that no org. has claimed responsibility. The whole point of a terrorist org. is to terrorize, thus make a claim on their attack.

Al Queda never claims credit, and the Libyans who brought down PA103 never claimed credit. This statement is simply not true. Yes, some terrorists claim credit, but others do not.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:36:33 and read 104318 times.

Quoting seat55a (Reply 72):
The suspicious tickets could also fit the mission profile of common everyday drug mules.

Maybe, but only if they were going from Europe to Thailand, not the other way round. Drug trafficking carries the death penalty in many Southeast Asian countries, and in particular in Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia, although you do see drug mules, but very very seldom.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 83):
Supposed image of the ticket info...

Already posted 13 posts above. Please read before re-posting.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-08 22:36:45 and read 104611 times.

The reservation system shows these two passengers were no-shows, and I've read elsewhere that their bags were removed from the flight.

If that's the case, what theory would we have on how they could have brought this plane down? Their bags actually *weren't* removed from the flight? If not, did they just buy these tickets *hoping* the airline would have a lapse like that? It seems too coincidental to me - almost like there would have had to be some inside help (assuming they were terrorists, which they may not have been).

[Edited 2014-03-08 22:37:56]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: wxmeddler
Posted 2014-03-08 22:36:52 and read 104194 times.

Quoting grimey (Reply 75):

At the bottom of each ticket there is a ticket #, all digits match except the last 3 which are 099 and 100

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AAEXPlat
Posted 2014-03-08 22:37:06 and read 104407 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 82):

I agree. There's high chance of illegal immigrant wannabes, because Southeast Asia - China - Europe is a mature route for illegal immigrants. Someone just did this back in January, but they held fake EU passports and were identified by Chinese immigration.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: grimey
Posted 2014-03-08 22:38:29 and read 103700 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 82):
And they have sequential ticket numbers too... But before anyone jump and say "haha! This is the smoking gun"... consider:
1. Two drug dealers; or
2. Two illegal immigrant wannabes;
Buying 2 tickets together after successfully sourcing the illegal passports...

Agree but if you were carrying drugs China would be one of the last places you would want to stopover

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AAEXPlat
Posted 2014-03-08 22:39:06 and read 103940 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 86):

That's not NOSHOW. That's just the annotation of the ticket, i.e. penalty applies when no-show occurs

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Reffado
Posted 2014-03-08 22:39:11 and read 104106 times.

Quoting AAEXPlat (Reply 79):

This creeped me out a little, honestly.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 22:39:16 and read 103853 times.

Mandela499, reply 82, you a have a point. It could be two people trying to get away w forged papers. But, given the circumstances, it raises questions.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: grimey
Posted 2014-03-08 22:41:04 and read 103200 times.

Quoting wxmeddler (Reply 87):

Quoting grimey (Reply 75):

At the bottom of each ticket there is a ticket #, all digits match except the last 3 which are 099 and 100

I was referring to the empty box beside where their names are printed

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2014-03-08 22:42:26 and read 102798 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 1):

Anyone else thinking that the oil streaks may be due to dumping fuel as they were returning back to KUL?

No. That kind of activity doesn't happen in a vacuum, and it doesn't happen before a lot of other things would have been done which would have involved communication and/or observable activity.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 4):
Looks too uniform to me.

Doesn't look like a debris field.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 1):
I would argue that they really didn't diagnose that they were in grave danger until it was way too late.

Yeah. I disagree. They knew they were in trouble (throttles fully-advanced, altitude rapidly-declining) but they weren't able to figure out what the problem was -- and the fact that the bonehead bunkie in the right seat had his stick full-aft wasn't helping the situation. I would argue that if the captain had tossed the bunkies and jumped into the left seat, the accident wouldn't have occurred as he would instinctively made the proper flight control inputs.

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
So there's no real need to claim responsibility in order to terrorize

Agreed. IIRC, the multiple-747s-in-the-Pacific "Bojinka" terrorist plot that was being hatched before 9/11, but which didn't happen, was one in which the terrorists planned to just have the aircraft disappear without them raising their heads or announcing that they did it, letting the story unfold as governments tried to figure out what happened.


Personally, I'm leaning towards a human-directed event, whether terrorism or a chain of failures and improper response. There are lots of clues and breadcrumbs, what a homicide investigator would call "interesting" details, and there will be many more. Presumably, the wreckage will be found and the black boxes recovered, and we will know eventually what happened. The interesting facts so far are things like the passenger information, the relative-inexperience of the F/O (both in general and more specifically in the 777), the absence of a widely-scattered debris field (at least where they are looking), the apparent absence of telemetry from the aircraft to the airline (although they haven't been exactly forthcoming about the details of that), etc. For example, we know exactly where the aircraft was at the point of its last ADS-B transmission (thanks to Flightradar 24); what about all the other SIGINT the aircraft is throwing off? What was being sent generally? When did it stop? What was the detail of the last transmissions? I don't expect officials to tell you and I, but I would expect them to be sharing it to help locate the thing. I know that ELTs aren't required by all jurisdictions, but it seems odd that we're not hearing anything even from something that basic. If we're throwing out most advanced surface-detection aircraft at the problem and they are coming up with nothing, it doesn't say much about their ability to detect the other stuff they are supposed to be able to detect. (The Orion and the Poseidon still share much of the same systems at the moment, so one isn't likely to be materially better than the other for this purpose, although the Poseidon can travel a lot faster.)

If this is terrorism-related, it could be a first step test, as was done in the Bojinka plot. For those of you who never read a detailed account of this thing, and how far along these guys were in putting it into action when caught in 1995, read the wikipedia summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot Three BIG takeaways: (1) What happened on 9/11 was very close to what these guys planned as their third phase in 1995, and what they were well on their way to doing, and it's rather sad that the 9/11 events were such a "surprise" given what was discovered-but-discounted in 1995; (2) Little details, like Ramsey Yousef travelling on a stolen Italian passport, are a little creepy today; (3) they planted a bomb on a Phillipine airliner as a test run, which exploded and killed a passenger, and would have certainly caused a loss of control of the airliner and a hull loss but for the fact that this particular 747-200 had the seats in a different layout than the hijackers expected, so the bomb was actually planted further from the spot that they had intended (much like the '93 World Trade Center bombing might actually have dropped one tower if the vehicle had been parked in a slightly-different location).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 22:43:02 and read 102793 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 85):

Already posted 13 posts above. Please read before re-posting.

That's how I found just the image, rather than the web site, by reading the post...

I thought most readers would rather just have a straight image link.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-08 22:43:57 and read 102805 times.

can somebody tell me how hard it is to say "mayday mayday" just at least to info someone on the ground or on the air that this plane is having a trouble? I never understand this part. Why is it soo hard to talk.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-08 22:44:52 and read 102540 times.

"The reservation system shows these two passengers were no-shows, and I've read elsewhere that their bags were removed from the flight."


These two pax names are on the manifest, why no shows? Those passport carriers boarded.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Reffado
Posted 2014-03-08 22:46:24 and read 101927 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 96):

It isn't. But flying an airplane is a complicated task, especially if you notice something is going awfully wrong. The amount of things going through the crew's head may just be too much to think about sending a distress call, or doing anything other than trying to figure out what the problem is / fixing it.

[Edited 2014-03-08 22:47:20]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: koruman
Posted 2014-03-08 22:46:51 and read 101968 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 84):
Al Queda never claims credit, and the Libyans who brought down PA103 never claimed credit. This statement is simply not true. Yes, some terrorists claim credit, but others do not.

You can hardly cite PA103: ask Jim Swire or the other British relatives of the deceased and they will tell you that they believe that the Libyans had nothing to do with it, and they will tell you precisely who did it and why it became politically unacceptable to recognise that.

Equally, Al Qaeda is an unusual organisation in that the whole point of terror is to terrorise people into giving in to your demands, which is difficult if you conduct your nefarious business anonymously.

I think we have to consider whether these people were carrying a device for use elsewhere, which went detonated at the wrong time while in transit.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2014-03-08 22:47:10 and read 102023 times.

One other point: the absence of a debris field of significant size could -- just could -- be the result of an event that did not cause the disintegration of the airframe at altitude, but rather caused it to nosedive from 35,000 feet without the opportunity to communicate. That would take 2-ish minutes. What the Bojinka terrorists intended for their planned bombings was a small-ish bomb, placed to disable flight controls and such, which would have caused the 747 to plunge from the sky in basically one piece. No reason to think that this couldn't have happened here. Particularly if this was a test rather than an attack. As with the choice of a Phillipine Airlines aircraft by the Bojinka Plot terrorists as a test target, the route in question wasn't one that involves a high level of regional terrorism or uprising among the two countries, and thus might be considered a softer target.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-08 22:48:15 and read 101980 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 54):
Very interesting AAEXPlat, and it seems these were bought in Thailand, since the far is in Thai Baht. And given the two passports were stolen in Thailand...

If you add Thailand bought tickets into the equation the circular route to Europe makes a little more sense if you factor drug running into the equation. There is a direct BKK to AMS KLM flight but the screening on it is locked down tight (you will have to trust me on this).

The tickets bought in TBH would raise suspicion of course but drug smugglers are not rocket scientists..

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 22:52:36 and read 101156 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 101):
There is a direct BKK to AMS KLM flight but the screening on it is locked down tight (you will have to trust me on this).

I don't doubt you at all and that would make a lot of sense. However, the death penalty in Malaysia and China and the fact that both governments do go ahead and hang/execute drug smugglers tells me either it's not drugs or these two are extremely stupid mules.

Also, the drugs going from Thailand to Holland? Doesn't add up.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Ty134A
Posted 2014-03-08 22:52:45 and read 101095 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 86):
If that's the case, what theory would we have on how they could have brought this plane down? Their bags actually *weren't* removed from the flight? If not, did they just buy these tickets *hoping* the airline would have a lapse like that? It seems too coincidental to me - almost like there would have had to be some inside help (assuming they were terrorists, which they may not have been).

change the bag tags during unloading or loading process, if some one assists you from handling staff. no problem at all.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 22:54:48 and read 100868 times.

"MISSING MH370: Chinese rescue force reaches suspected site of missing plane"
https://twitter.com/NST_Online/status/442552093392375808

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: kelebek
Posted 2014-03-08 22:55:11 and read 100579 times.

Quoting AAEXPlat (Reply 79):
GDS system.
E-ticket document: 784-2280116100 Passenger: MR. CHRISTIAN KOZEL Booking reference:
Issuing agent: 35306611
Issue place: PYX
Issue date: 06 March 2014 Trip status: Confirmed

E-ticket document: 784-2280116099 Passenger: MR. LUIGI MARALDI Booking reference:
Issuing agent: 35306611
Issue place: PYX
Issue date: 06 March 2014 Trip status: Confirmed

Just to add a little something:
If I read this document (link: http://news.163.com/14/0309/12/9MT5N...U0001121M.html#p=9MQH46U200AO0001) right, column 2 indicates the passport number. As for the PAX named KOZEL/Christian carrying the Austrian Passport this number reads as P2972593. Having some knowledge about numbering of Austrian Passports this looks to me as this passport was issued after 15.06.2006 and therefore would be a newer passport containing a chip, fingerprint as well as a printed photo (= no pasted photo). Earlier passports had numbers with other letters than "P" in front.

Furthermore I am interested what those last segments (AMS-FRA and AMS-CPH) in the etix are for? Those segments seem not to include a flight. Why would these dummy segments be added to the etix however? I am aware that if after this "land transport" segment there would be another flight (e.g. FRA-VIE) then you would naturally add these dummy segments as etix systems do not allow "gaps".

[Edited 2014-03-08 23:02:23]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: loladaisydukes
Posted 2014-03-08 22:57:12 and read 100684 times.

Interesting details.. One of the relative of Chinese passenger tried to ring the phone of their relative, it rang but no one answered. Should phones be turn off during flights right or atleast in airplane mode?

http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/c/v/2014-03-09/131163598513.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-08 22:57:29 and read 100007 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 100):
the absence of a debris field of significant size could

wjcandee - I always enjoy reading your hyphothesizing...

However, in my SAR training, we would expect a pretty large debris field by now due to the sea curents. We would have long ago have calculated various logical SAR areas based on various trajectories from last known positions. However, this would be entirely impossible if the aircraft kept on flying for any significant distance and was effectively electronically dead. The military would likely be able to offer tracking based on psr if the xpdr or squitter ceased operation for whatever reason.

Even if they had gone straight down, there would be a reasonable debris field as a lof of stuff would be floating (due to density differents) and hitting the water at a full nose down tilt would result in significant fragmentation.

To make it truly disappear (and no guarantees of a debri field) it would need to be a near perfect ditching and then just sink.

I totally understood why they struggled to located the debris and elt in middle of the atlantic, but this scenario is boggling my mind!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: BravoEchoNov
Posted 2014-03-08 23:01:48 and read 99160 times.

Good overall summary of the events that have taken place with Malaysia 370 of the past day and a half. http://www.airlinegeeks.com/blog/item/mh370

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: phxa340
Posted 2014-03-08 23:09:35 and read 96975 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 23):
I am soo pissed that my country didnt send or offer any help in finding the plane. And 7 of our citizens aboard that plane.

Indonesia has 5 Navy Ships participating in the search.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: MerlinIIIB
Posted 2014-03-08 23:09:53 and read 97147 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
If that's taken from 11,000 meters, there's no way that could be debris. Too spread out, and far too many burning pieces (which are most likely lights on the ground).
Quoting Coal (Reply 40):
I can guarantee from my own personal experience, that this pic is not of debris but rather of the very irregular shape of flower farms in Vietnam.

Flash photography of ice crystals on the window?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-08 23:11:10 and read 96746 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 102):
Also, the drugs going from Thailand to Holland? Doesn't add up.

Thailand is the center of the so called golden triangle, its a major heroin producing region. Amsterdam seems to works as a drugs clearing house.

As for the potential penatlies on the route as I mentioned drug smugglers are not rocket scientists..

[Edited 2014-03-08 23:13:40]

[Edited 2014-03-08 23:14:19]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2014-03-08 23:11:42 and read 96601 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 99):
You can hardly cite PA103: ask Jim Swire or the other British relatives of the deceased and they will tell you that they believe that the Libyans had nothing to do with it, and they will tell you precisely who did it and why it became politically unacceptable to recognise that.

But they still did not claim credit. And someone clearly planted the bomb that brought it down; that was terrorism.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 23:12:31 and read 96167 times.

Quoting MerlinIIIB (Reply 110):
Flash photography of ice crystals on the window?

No, flower farms in Vietnam.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 23:13:36 and read 96113 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 111):
Thailand is the center of the so called golden triangle, its a major heroin producing region. Amsterdam seems to works as a drugs clearing house.

True, but it is easier for it to go through Central Asia than through Malaysia and China.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: ThomasMTroxell
Posted 2014-03-08 23:17:49 and read 95382 times.

Weren't the two pax who were no shows the people who were traveling on the stolen passports? Or is this something completely different?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2014-03-08 23:21:07 and read 94873 times.

I have noticed a few comments that terrorist groups usually claim responsibility. There seems to be several investigations already happening, and there are some obvious concerns that this could have been a terrorist attack. Perhaps a claim was made, but has not been made public? The ticket situation, stolen passports, both individuals book flights at the same time, one way trip, last minute purchase, airplane just vanishes suddenly...... No, not buying the drug mule gig. I think there is enough weird happenings here to raise red flags. I have doubts that this was an accident.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 23:22:04 and read 94358 times.

Slightly off topic, but I am wondering who exactly is coordinating the search and rescue activities. Reports say there are Malaysian, Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese, Filipino, and American vessels and aircraft combing the area looking for debris. Who coordinates the activities of which? Malaysia? Vietnam? Particularly on the aerial search, it seems to me the fact there are so many a/c in the area from so many different countries, it could potentially lead to another incident.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: redadeco
Posted 2014-03-08 23:23:55 and read 94667 times.

Quoting ThomasMTroxell (Reply 115):
Weren't the two pax who were no shows the people who were traveling on the stolen passports? Or is this something completely different?

No the 2 passengers in question have indeed boarded the plane and Malaysian authorities have footage of them from check-in till boarding.

The 5 no-shows have nothing to do with them and their luggage has been removed from the cargo before departure.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2014-03-08 23:24:56 and read 93952 times.

[quote=ThomasMTroxell,reply=115][/quote

Same names as the stolen passports.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-08 23:26:56 and read 93686 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 114):
True, but it is easier for it to go through Central Asia than through Malaysia and China.

As I say, the direct flight is closely monitored, what mules tend to do is to try and shuffle the pack and choose an unusual route, but the late ticket purchase, ticket in different currency from origin and wacky routing should have earned them a shoulder tap in AMS anyway.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: loladaisydukes
Posted 2014-03-08 23:27:31 and read 94652 times.

MISSING MH370: Pilot: I established contact with plane

'INTERFERENCE': Pilot in another plane was flying 30 minutes ahead of MH370

SEPANG: A BOEING 777 pilot, who was flying 30 minutes ahead of the missing Malaysia Airlines aircraft, said he established contact with MH370 minutes after he was asked to do so by Vietnamese air traffic control.
The captain, who asked to not be named, said his plane, which was bound for Narita, Japan, was far into Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to relay, using his plane's emergency frequency, to MH370 for the latter to establish its position, as the authorities could not contact the aircraft.

"We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.

"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53,) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.

"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.

"That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he told the New Sunday Times.

He said those on the same frequency at the time would have heard the exchange.
This, he said, would include vessels on the waters below.
He said he thought nothing of it, as the occurrence (of losing contact) was normal, until it was established that MH370 never landed.

"If the plane was in trouble, we would have heard the pilot making the Mayday distress call. But I am sure that, like me, no one else up there heard it.

"Following the silence, a repeat request was made by the Vietnamese authorities to try establishing contact with them."
Meanwhile, Ritzeraynn Rashid, 55, remembers Captain Zaharie as a pleasant and humble man.
They used to fly together in the 1980s, when Zaharie was a co-pilot and he, the leading purser on the B737 services.
He was also close with Patrick Gomes, who was leading the cabin crew aboard MH370.

"Zaharie was always smiling and very cheerful. We shared a lot of good memories. We were like brothers.

"From 1980 to 1991, when I was working with MAS, there was never a day that we did not chat and catch up."
Ritzeraynn, who is now a public relations and communications manager, said Patrick was always looking out for his friends.

"I remember those days when I did not have a car. Patrick would offer his new Ford Laser for me to use.

"In reciprocation, when he has late-night flights and did not want to disturb his mother, I would invite him to my house to stay for the night."
Ritzeraynn, who, like Zaharie, was from Penang Free School, said the school's class of 1978/79 would pray for all those aboard the missing aircraft.

"All the crew members and passengers are in our thoughts and prayers. I miss Zaharie and Patrick very much."
For Fariq's brother, Afiq, the bond they had was beyond sharing a last name.
When updated news reached him that his brother, who is a first officer, was co-piloting MH370, his world shattered.
However, Afiq, 20, finds strength in his hope that Fariq, a Langkawi Aerospace Flying Academy graduate, is somewhere out there alive.

"This is just heartbreaking," was all Afiq could muster, telling the NST that he was grappling between thinking of the worst and keeping himself optimistic.

"I do not know what to tell you. I am not doing okay.

"Sorry, I cannot really think right now. My parents are very sad right now," he said in a text message.
Afiq described his brother, the eldest of five siblings, as a responsible and kind person who exuded warmth, which made him endearing to many.

The chemical engineering student, from Universiti Teknologi Petronas, had earlier tweeted: "Pray for my brother #MH370."
About 7pm, as news on MH370 remained vague, Afiq tweeted: "I'm coming to find you, even if it takes all night."
Their father, Abdul Hamid Md Daud, when met at his house in Shah Alam, asked that the family be given personal space.

http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general....502513/7.502513/7.576448/7.576448

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-08 23:29:29 and read 93303 times.

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 103):
change the bag tags during unloading or loading process, if some one assists you from handling staff. no problem at all.

That's what I'm saying. So if we are to assume these stolen passports were being held by terrorists - which is a big jump in logic, but one it seems like some are making - then you almost have to assume that there is someone at the airport who helped and knows what happened. And that person or people should not be difficult to locate or at least identify. (Find out who was working check-in/baggage on Saturday, interview them.) At the very least, if he/she/they had fled the area, you would think the police would have an APB out for them already, and would have enlisted the public's help in finding them. I mean, *if* you assume all this was some nefarious act by these people.

This reminds me a bit of AI 182, except that security protocols these days mean that anyone trying to bring a bomb on board would almost definitely need help. The easiest person to find is going to be the person who helped, and the important thing is that even if these people were not terrorists, all of the people who potentially could have helped should be questioned right away regardless. Because the authorities have to be investigating all angles that they can right now.

The second thing is that if this *was* a bombing, it seems that the bombers themselves would still be at large. Those names listed as no-shows are the same as those on the stolen passports.

[Edited 2014-03-08 23:30:55]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-08 23:31:28 and read 92867 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 121):
Pilot in another plane was flying 30 minutes ahead of MH370

MH 88? They did depart at 12:05am, about 30mins late, which would have put them about 30mins ahead of MH 370.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2014-03-08 23:31:29 and read 92793 times.

According to The Guardian, there are four IDs "under investigation".

Quote:
The identities of four passengers aboard the missing Malaysia Airlines flight are under investigation, the country’s transport minister said on Sunday, as the company confirmed that it was “fearing the worst”.

Investigators are examining the entire passenger manifest after European diplomats said late on Saturday that two of the 227 passengers were travelling on stolen passports. Hishamuddin Hussein, who is also defence minister, said Malaysia would work with the FBI and other international agencies and that two more names were being checked.

“All the four names are with me,” he said, according to Reuters.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 23:34:00 and read 92357 times.

Contact after 1:30 am would be 10 or more minutes after the reported loss of radar and radio.

[Edited 2014-03-08 23:36:17]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 23:35:21 and read 92725 times.

Singapore Straits Times is now reporting that an MAS spokesman has told familes that FIVE individuals with stolen passports boarded the flight:

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-...ane-family-members-urge-airlines-p

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-08 23:38:36 and read 91600 times.

Quoting vr-hkg (Reply 126):

Sounds like a mix-up with the 5 no-shows whose bags were removed.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flanker
Posted 2014-03-08 23:42:07 and read 90694 times.

I'm starting to think they could have been grabbed up by a portal or something else. Maybe another Bermuda.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 23:43:42 and read 90754 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 127):
Sounds like a mix-up with the 5 no-shows whose bags were removed.

Yes, that does seem likely. (And Straits Times go on to point out that the most we'd been told previously was four, and that even that figure had been said to be incorrect and dialed back to two.)

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-08 23:46:33 and read 89919 times.

Quoting vr-hkg (Reply 126):
Singapore Straits Times is now reporting that an MAS spokesman has told familes that FIVE individuals with stolen passports boarded the flight:http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-...ane-family-members-urge-airlines-p

No, the story says:

Quote:
Department of Civil Aviation director-general Azaruddin Abdul Rahman said on Sunday there were only two such passengers, not four as earlier reported by the media.
Quote:
The airlines will arrange for five relatives of each passenger to travel to Kuala Lumpur

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 23:48:10 and read 89453 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 130):
No, the story says:

But it also says:

Quote:
A spokesman of Malaysia Airlines (MAS) also told distraught families of the missing flight gathered at the Crowne Hotel Beijing Lido that five passengers have been found to have boarded using stolen passports so far.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-08 23:49:48 and read 89359 times.

Quoting vr-hkg (Reply 131):
But it also says:

It seems that the media is having a royal mix-up...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 23:51:42 and read 88906 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 132):
It seems that the media is having a royal mix-up...

Or whichever family member they spoke to was (understandably) confused. Or an MAS employee made an innocent mistake.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: MillwallSean
Posted 2014-03-08 23:54:00 and read 88837 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 120):

As I say, the direct flight is closely monitored, what mules tend to do is to try and shuffle the pack and choose an unusual route, but the late ticket purchase, ticket in different currency from origin and wacky routing should have earned them a shoulder tap in AMS anyway.

Hmm dont overestimate shoulderpats. Many businessmen buys tickets like this, quite a few of the European disapora in Bangkok buys their tickets like this when they get a good deal. Having a European buying the cheapest fare possible to Europe (and China Southern issued ticket does point to the cheapest ticket available) isn't uncommon or something thats out of the pattern for quite a few of the travelagents serving westerners in Bangkok.

Bangkok and buying a stolen passport is also no big surprise. They are for sale there and you don't need to have a wealth of contacts to get a good stolen passport. While everyone says their passport has been stolen, in many cases it has been bought from the owner. The amount of western travel documents that go missing in thailand is disproportionate and with so many western men living on rather meager income down there selling a passport is just business.
Thailand is also known to be one of the most popular places for European criminals to lay low in and passports are in demand by such people. The Thai police don't disturb westerners but if they know the westerner is wanted then they come and pay him a visit and usually ask for a bribe or 3...
Using a fake passport in Thailand is not uncommon. And it itself doesnt point to terrorism.

Id say its more likely that it points to European criminals going back and forth without telling the authorities in their country of origin where they are likely to be petty criminals involved in low level frauds etc.
Or for that sake drugmules even though it seems to be a rather risky move to pick the drugs up in Malaysia and fly it out from there.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-08 23:55:38 and read 88499 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 92):
Mandela499

It's Mandala! As much a I respect Mandela, please... get it right! :p

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 94):
Doesn't look like a debris field.

Doesn't look like it to me either...

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 94):
Yeah. I disagree. They knew they were in trouble (throttles fully-advanced, altitude rapidly-declining) but they weren't able to figure out what the problem was -- and the fact that the bonehead bunkie in the right seat had his stick full-aft wasn't helping the situation. I would argue that if the captain had tossed the bunkies and jumped into the left seat, the accident wouldn't have occurred as he would instinctively made the proper flight control inputs.

If you're talking about AF447, then the bunkie was the newbie in the left seat replacing the captain. The bonehead was the guy on the right... and full aft stick barely happened during the period between the crisis starting and impact. Infact, there were also nose down inputs. The bunkie on the left was being intimidated by the bonehead on the right... the Captain should have thrown one of them out of the seat... but whether they had enough time, we don't know. The bonehead was basically telling the bunkie conflicting stuff... he literally didn't trust the bunkie (and probably didn't trust the captain either, as he had the most hours on type of the three).

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 94):
the apparent absence of telemetry from the aircraft to the airline (although they haven't been exactly forthcoming about the details of that), etc.

We only heard of the telemetry of AF447 because someone leaked it. It also depends on whether the airline would activate the feature, and through which comms channel (HF or VHF datalink, or Satcom datalink). And I think SatCars is unlikely on this plane. Satcom isn't standard, I know MRQ has it, but MRA-MRM don't. But MRO may have a different Satcom antenna, but if my guess is correct on the type of antenna, that's not certified for use for safety services (incl SatCars).

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 94):
For example, we know exactly where the aircraft was at the point of its last ADS-B transmission (thanks to Flightradar 24); what about all the other SIGINT the aircraft is throwing off? What was being sent generally? When did it stop?

We need to get the ADS-B raw feed data. I don't think Flightradar24 will reveal to the public who the feeder is. But the raw feed would EXTREMELY useful! (I used it to assist investigators in an accident a few weeks ago on the raw ADS-B feed to enable early interviews with those involved).

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 96):
can somebody tell me how hard it is to say "mayday mayday" just at least to info someone on the ground or on the air that this plane is having a trouble? I never understand this part. Why is it soo hard to talk.

Remember Adam Air 574, and Air France 447... Enjoy the read.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 100):
the absence of a debris field of significant size could -- just could -- be the result of an event that did not cause the disintegration of the airframe at altitude, but rather caused it to nosedive from 35,000 feet without the opportunity to communicate. That would take 2-ish minutes.

If you got a catastrophic problem that literally slaps you in the face, you'd probably call a mayday... But it was a result of something relatively subtle/simple which develops into a catastrophic situation... you might not make that mayday call as you may have saturated/immersed yourself in it without realizing it. It is human to fall to that trap.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 106):
One of the relative of Chinese passenger tried to ring the phone of their relative, it rang but no one answered. Should phones be turn off during flights right or atleast in airplane mode?

I'd take this claim with a pinch of salt. I've heard this with Adam Air 574 case... where we know the cellphone would be under the sea... and it still rings, but no one answers. The same with the Sukhoi SSJ that slammed a mountain here. People were criticizing the rescue effort based on "I can call my relative on the number... although no one picks up. They're alive! DO SOMETHING!"... yet, those cases had the aircraft ending up outside any cell coverage. So... yes, take those claims with a pinch of salt... Relatives will try and believe anything to convince others (and themselves) that their loved ones are still alive.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 107):
To make it truly disappear (and no guarantees of a debri field) it would need to be a near perfect ditching and then just sink.

Indeed. You can also have a dive followed by a breakup at low altitude, which minimizes the debris... but this is rare... but when it does, the wreck is not a pleasant sight.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 109):
Indonesia has 5 Navy Ships participating in the search.

Oh, we joined the search? OK... there goes the whole of our nothern fleet capability!   

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: alberchico
Posted 2014-03-08 23:58:14 and read 87368 times.

Here is the weather for the search area:

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weathe...to-build-as-search-contin/24170664

Now I'm confused. Shouldn't the aircraft black box have activated its ELT transmitter by now ?

My apologies if this topic has been already addressed, its a long thread....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-08 23:59:44 and read 87550 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 135):
I'd take this claim with a pinch of salt. I've heard this with Adam Air 574 case... where we know the cellphone would be under the sea... and it still rings, but no one answers. The same with the Sukhoi SSJ that slammed a mountain here. People were criticizing the rescue effort based on "I can call my relative on the number... although no one picks up. They're alive! DO SOMETHING!"... yet, those cases had the aircraft ending up outside any cell coverage. So... yes, take those claims with a pinch of salt... Relatives will try and believe anything to convince others (and themselves) that their loved ones are still alive.

This point is specifically addressed by an MAS spokesman who says that, while the information has been passed on, he's personally tried the number and it doesn't ring.

"On rumours that one of the passengers' phone rang when a relative dialled the number, Mr Ong said this information has been passed on to the Malaysian and Chinese authorities. But he added that he has personally called the number and there was no ringing tone."
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...assengers-chi#sthash.Og5FZMjk.dpuf

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2014-03-09 00:00:44 and read 87192 times.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 134):

Thanks for the great info that Wikipedia won't tell you!  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2014-03-09 00:05:01 and read 86434 times.

Quoting flanker (Reply 128):

There is the Dragons Triangle, which is on the exact opposite side of the world as the Bermuda Triangle, but I do not know if it covers this area. I think it is more towards Japan.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: pilotaydin
Posted 2014-03-09 00:18:48 and read 83622 times.

Ok good morning for day 2.

First off i really feel that a lot of people are adding fuel to the terror fire for no reason. Just because the plane has not been found and just because the wreckage is missing that doen not make the cause of the accident spectacular or bomb or terror....

Keeping it simple and back to aviation let's hear some comments about crew composition?

27 year old fo in training or just finished, bad time of night to be alert and awake, massive sea where plane could be....

I had posted for hours about af447 and it turned out i was right a small issue turned chaos...i suspect the same here...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-09 00:19:03 and read 83524 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 136):
Now I'm confused. Shouldn't the aircraft black box have activated its ELT transmitter by now ?

You mean the pinger? I don't know how close you have to get to the boxes to detect their pingers.

The ELT for the plane was probably destroyed.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-09 00:22:28 and read 83001 times.

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 140):

It's the 41 minutes that bugs me when we start to think of inexperience, fatigue, or pilot error. They were only in the air for 41 minutes, supposedly, and had only just begun the FL350 cruise.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-09 00:26:02 and read 82786 times.

07:59 GMT - Another passport - Chinese state media is reporting that a Chinese person whose passport number is among those listed for passengers aboard the missing flight did not in fact board the plane.
According to the Xinhua news agency the person, a resident of Fujian province in eastern China, has no departure record and is still in Fujian.
Although the passport number is the same, the name listed by Malaysia Airlines for the passenger is, it says, adding the owner says he has never lost his passport.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-ai...igation-live-report-042933746.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-09 00:27:10 and read 82232 times.

This is quite a good wrap-up from Channel 4 (UK) (except for the ELT signal being short-range; modern ELTs transmit their signal through orbiting satellites).

Quote:
Our Science Correspondent Tom Clarke writes:

With all the technology on board a modern passenger aircraft its seems impossible that one can just disappear without explanation.

However, in the case of MH370 that appears to be exactly what's happened.

The Malaysian Airlines plane was equipped with the industry standard ASD-B flight transponder. This device sends a package of GPS data back to air traffic controllers every second.

It gives the plane's altitude, speed and direction.Data from the transponder shows the plane taking off at 12:41 a.m from Kuala Lumpur.

Then at precisely 1.20 a.m. when the plane was cruising at an altitude of 35,000 feet the signal was lost.

The fact that the transponder data shows no change in altitude or course, and that there was no communication from the crew on board has led to speculation that a sudden and catastrophic event caused the plane to crash into the sea.

In emergency situations however, pilots are trained to "fly, navigate, communicate" in that order.

If there is an on-going emergency situation that requires the full effort of the pilot and crew it may be that a distress call is not made in time.

The aircraft was also equipped with an ELT - a floating GPS beacon - designed should transmit the aircraft's position if it lands in water.

There has been no report of a signal from this transmitter either. However its signal is only short range and won't work if the device sank along with any wreckage.

It's now 24 hours since the MH370 took off so it looks almost certain that it has crashed. But until physical evidence has been found authorities cannot confirm that the plane, with its 239 passengers and crew, has been lost or not.
http://www.channel4.com/news/malaysi...370-black-box-how-can-plane-vanish

[Edited 2014-03-09 00:29:47]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: alberchico
Posted 2014-03-09 00:28:01 and read 82220 times.

some news updates:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26502843

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: ChaosTheory
Posted 2014-03-09 00:32:11 and read 81295 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 142):
They were only in the air for 41 minutes, supposedly, and had only just begun the FL350 cruise.

As I mentioned before, even with ATC restrictions, they would likely have reached cruise within 20 minutes or so and with the standard 250/310/.84 schedule, FL350 would easily be reached before leaving the coast.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: MillwallSean
Posted 2014-03-09 00:34:36 and read 80566 times.

Since the aircraft passed or is presumed to have passed over Kota Bharu its gone a fair bit further north than most oil installations. the oil industry on Malaysias east coast is concentrated in south Terengganu. the airport used for many helicopter flights to the platforms are in Kerteh, a small town.
So assistance from the 24/7 platform operations are unlikely to be possible. What they will do is probably just rule out certain area for searches.

The amount of finishing vessels might be interesting though.

Question is WHY does the Malaysians state that they will look into the straits of Malacca?
Out of all I have read so far that makes the least sense of all.
If they wanna look there it could mean several things
1. Something is seriously wrong and we havent been told much about what they know.
2. The person that said that was plain clueless but want malaysia to look great and add facts that makes no sense.
3. Some sort of reassuring effort is being done.

I assume its number 2 here.

Also, knowing quite a few people in MH I must say that the captain is known to be a true aviation enthusiast, flightsimulator addict, and a flying professional that has his rank based on competence. (professionals can also make mistakes so that doesnt say anything but)
The first officers careerpath is interesting and very typical of the government owned malaysian enterprises of today though.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2014-03-09 00:34:40 and read 80581 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 96):


can somebody tell me how hard it is to say "mayday mayday" just at least to info someone on the ground or on the air that this plane is having a trouble? I never understand this part. Why is it soo hard to talk.


Pretty much the first thing you learn as a pilot is Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.
That is fly the plane first, know where you are heading etc 2nd, radio 3rd.

They probably had too much going on and not enough time to communicate. They possibly had no time at all for anything seeing how suddenly this occurred.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: macsid
Posted 2014-03-09 00:35:09 and read 80964 times.

Just watched a press conference on local TV here in Malaysia a little while ago, and the authorities claim that only 2 passports were dubious. They also claim that 5 people checked in but never boarded, and that their luggage was removed. So where are these 5 lucky souls? I'd expect them to be on TV publicly thanking their lucky stars!!!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: DAL763ER
Posted 2014-03-09 00:37:13 and read 80197 times.

Quoting kelebek (Reply 105):
Furthermore I am interested what those last segments (AMS-FRA and AMS-CPH) in the etix are for?

There are three flights on that itinerary, all confirmed with flight numbers KL1775 to FRA and KL1139 to CPH respectively.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: dc863
Posted 2014-03-09 00:38:37 and read 79953 times.

If it was a terrorist bombing and that's a big IF, then perhaps terrorist cell XYZ has performed a successful test run with a "formula" bomb. Cell XYZ now realizes that it has a working bomb that could be used aboard other flights. We have seen time and time again that terrorists have tried many times but failed thus far to plant bombs in shoes, underwear, liquids, etc that are to be detonated by a lunatic onboard. What if and as I said it's a big IF, MH 370 was the first victim of a possible string of future bombings?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: macsid
Posted 2014-03-09 00:38:57 and read 80189 times.

Also, I fully understand aviate, navigate, communicate, but why not immediately squawk 7700 immediately? It would take mere seconds and allow them to focus on aviate and navigate first (?)

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: ryu2
Posted 2014-03-09 00:39:25 and read 80168 times.

AAExecPlat, why is the ticket receipt in Chinese if they were bought in Thailand? Something doesn't add up.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: DALFA
Posted 2014-03-09 00:40:19 and read 79730 times.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 147):
The first officers careerpath is interesting and very typical of the government owned malaysian enterprises of today though.

What do you mean by that?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-09 00:41:33 and read 79852 times.

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 146):

Sorry, I confused Flightaware with Flightradar24.

Flightaware loses data earlier, just when 9M-MRO reaches 35K.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: macsid
Posted 2014-03-09 00:47:25 and read 78574 times.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 153):

Every time I bought Flying Blue award ticket from AMS on KL, my ticket arrived in French and English.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-09 00:48:52 and read 78287 times.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 153):
AAExecPlat, why is the ticket receipt in Chinese if they were bought in Thailand? Something doesn't add up.

It was issued by CZ. Would make sense to me. I've flown on CZ, MU, and CA tons of times and have seen such etickets, even actually printed on old printer paper with holes that looks like that.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-09 00:49:20 and read 78199 times.

Quoting dc863 (Reply 151):

yes i wouldnt be surprised by now if this is the case. Are there any results of the baggage or what was inside of it, cause i thought i read somewhere they would check the footage of the baggage.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-09 00:50:12 and read 77828 times.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 153):
AAExecPlat, why is the ticket receipt in Chinese if they were bought in Thailand? Something doesn't add up.

They were supposedly booked through China Southern, would that explain it?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: pilotaydin
Posted 2014-03-09 00:50:47 and read 78134 times.

Saying mayday or setting 7700 does nothing to save the plane, we fly the plane first, why waste time that we cant get back?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 00:51:05 and read 78041 times.

Quoting macsid (Reply 152):

Also, I fully understand aviate, navigate, communicate, but why not immediately squawk 7700 immediately? It would take mere seconds and allow them to focus on aviate and navigate first (?)


Switching the transponder takes time and brain power better used for other things. I know it is counterintuitive in some cases but after a few emergency drills you learn to respect the aviate first rule.

Example Scenario 1: explosive decompression. Really no time for transponder fiddling at all.

Example scenario 2: AF447 where crew does not realize seriousness and buries itself in the problem. They had time to call mayday but by the end not so much.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: macsid
Posted 2014-03-09 00:54:03 and read 77409 times.

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 160):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 161):

Understood, guys. Thanks!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Vhqpa
Posted 2014-03-09 01:00:06 and read 76225 times.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 153):
AAExecPlat, why is the ticket receipt in Chinese if they were bought in Thailand? Something doesn't add up.
Quoting Coal (Reply 157):
It was issued by CZ

I can confirm it was issued by China Southern. The first three digits of the e ticket identify the issuing carrier.

for example:

001 = American Airlines
220 = Lufthansa
081 = Qantas

in this case 784 is China Southern.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: dc863
Posted 2014-03-09 01:03:41 and read 75670 times.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 158):
yes i wouldnt be surprised by now if this is the case. Are there any results of the baggage or what was inside of it, cause i thought i read somewhere they would check the footage of the baggage.

The investigators will look at everything from security camera footage to interviewing every single ramp person who had contact with 9H-MRO going back 24hrs before the flight took off.
Light debris or flotsam should be washing up onshore soon in southern Thailand. Heavier bits will have to be taken from the sea bed and pieced together in a hangar to ascertain if an explosive device went off inside the cabin. Seat cushions, seat frames, floor and wall panels will be looked over for any sort of fire/blast damage.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-09 01:11:12 and read 74675 times.

Malaysia Airlines: "No new update as yet but the search & rescue teams are hard at work. Next tweet in an hour or two depending on developments."
https://twitter.com/MAS/status/442586625411788800

"MISSING MH370: Australia joined SAR mission: PM http://bit.ly/1nvitiP"
https://twitter.com/NST_Online/status/442586941192560640

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-09 01:11:32 and read 74354 times.

But why has the search expanded to Malacca Strait?? It's on the other side of the peninsula!?
Could an airliner fly over the whole country without being detected??

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-09 01:14:46 and read 73769 times.

As mentioned above, if you go to Saudi Airs website and put in the ticket number/last name you will pull up the reservation of the two suspicious passengers.

Interesting that they connect between a oneworld carrier to a sky team one at PEK.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: ryu2
Posted 2014-03-09 01:16:04 and read 73583 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 167):
Interesting that they connect between a oneworld carrier to a sky team one at PEK.

CZ, the codeshare they booked, is Skyteam.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2014-03-09 01:16:33 and read 73341 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 166):
But why has the search expanded to Malacca Strait?? It's on the other side of the peninsula!?
Could an airliner fly over the whole country without being detected??

If it can't be ruled out with 100 percent certainty, then it might be worth a try, even if odds are low.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 01:18:29 and read 72962 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 166):
But why has the search expanded to Malacca Strait?? It's on the other side of the peninsula!?
Could an airliner fly over the whole country without being detected??

Maybe if it turned the transponder off. You'd still have primary radar so it really depends on coverage.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: MillwallSean
Posted 2014-03-09 01:20:38 and read 72790 times.

Also a reminder that fake passports isn't exactly unknown of in Asia. When Air India crashed in 2010 they had somewhere between 10-20 persons onboard with fake passports. Their families even got compensation. In that case it was Indian migrants that used fake passports since most UAE employers lock away their migrant labourers travel documents.

What travel agency have issued the tickets? Where is it located?
My guess, Pattaya. The dodgiest of the dodgy places for westerners that reside in thailand and a place that draws evey kind of shady character and small criminal Europe has.

[Edited 2014-03-09 01:22:00]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-09 01:22:15 and read 72262 times.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 168):
CZ, the codeshare they booked, is Skyteam

But that is still a connection between oneworld and skyteam at PEK. Do CZ and MH have a code share agreement on KUL-PEK?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: rdu2sfo
Posted 2014-03-09 01:22:34 and read 72293 times.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 169):
If it can't be ruled out with 100 percent certainty, then it might be worth a try, even if odds are low.

It's quite concerning that they can't rule this out or know for sure one way or another. It simply is not feasible that an airdraft could fly clear across the country and not be detected, regardless of whether its transponder was on or not.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: blueshamu330s
Posted 2014-03-09 01:22:47 and read 72841 times.

CCTV reporting Singapore Search vessel has found "suspicious floating objects."

Also being reported on Viet TV.

Rgds

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2014-03-09 01:26:19 and read 71962 times.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 171):
My guess, Pattaya. The dodgiest of the dodgy places for westerners that reside in thailand and a place that draws evey kind of shady character and small criminal Europe has.

The tickets were issued in Pattaya indeed (Six Stars Travel).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: qf002
Posted 2014-03-09 01:27:47 and read 71567 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 172):

Please read the thread. CZ codeshares on this flight.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-09 01:29:33 and read 72346 times.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 171):
What travel agency have issued the tickets? Where is it located?
My guess, Pattaya.

That would appear to be the case. Note PYX in this quote from AAEXPlat:

Quoting AAEXPlat (Reply 79):
GDS system.
E-ticket document: 784-2280116100 Passenger: MR. CHRISTIAN KOZEL Booking reference:
Issuing agent: 35306611
Issue place: PYX
Issue date: 06 March 2014 Trip status: Confirmed

E-ticket document: 784-2280116099 Passenger: MR. LUIGI MARALDI Booking reference:
Issuing agent: 35306611
Issue place: PYX
Issue date: 06 March 2014 Trip status: Confirmed

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: birdy
Posted 2014-03-09 01:30:23 and read 72482 times.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 174):

#MH370 Vietnam rescue authorities: suspicious floating object spotted 100km south-southwest of Tho Chu island. Sending vessels out to check

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ng-plane-investigation-widens-live

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-09 01:31:05 and read 72112 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 172):
But that is still a connection between oneworld and skyteam at PEK. Do CZ and MH have a code share agreement on KUL-PEK

Please read the thread above. CZ 748 = MH 370  

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: macsid
Posted 2014-03-09 01:34:26 and read 71760 times.

Quoting rdu2sfo (Reply 173):

Assuming they did turn back as a result of an emergency at the last known location per FR24, I'd hazard that the closest 777 capable field would be Penang. If we assume this to be the case, had they made landfall at the Malaysian East Coast that far north, I'd guess they would have "flown clear across the country" in 20 minutes flat. Maybe even less than that.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2014-03-09 01:39:40 and read 70633 times.

Quoting birdy (Reply 178):
suspicious floating object spotted 100km south-southwest of Tho Chu island.

I've just been checking with Great Circle Mapper. If I'm not mistaken, this position is approximately 175km (110 miles) away from the (presumed) last known position of MH 370.

[Edited 2014-03-09 01:41:23]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-09 01:41:02 and read 71003 times.

Seems they might have found something:

https://twitter.com/TrongKhanhVu

#MH370 Vietnam rescue authorities: floating object first spotted by Singapore search and rescue force

#MH370 Vietnam search and rescue authorities: naval vessel to reach the floating object around 700pm Hanoi time

#MH370 Vietnam search and rescue authorities: floating object is yellow

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: pilotaydin
Posted 2014-03-09 01:43:56 and read 69940 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 182):

Yellow? Life jackets?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: rdu2sfo
Posted 2014-03-09 01:44:50 and read 69819 times.

Quoting macsid (Reply 180):

I agree that might be possible. My only point was that it is not possible to fly a 777 across the territory of any country undetected (unless that country has zero military defense infrasructure). So it should be known whether the aircraft ever crossed to the West coast. That's why to me it seems nonsensical that they would be searching off both the East and West coasts.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Vhqpa
Posted 2014-03-09 03:01:39 and read 66095 times.

Quoting rdu2sfo (Reply 184):
I agree that might be possible. My only point was that it is not possible to fly a 777 across the territory of any country undetected (unless that country has zero military defense infrasructure). So it should be known whether the aircraft ever crossed to the West coast. That's why to me it seems nonsensical that they would be searching off both the East and West coasts.

I can't make sense of it either. Initially I thought the authorities might know a little more on whether or not it crossed the peninsular than they are willing to make public. But then I would have thought they would've known straight away and not wait until it had been missing for 30+ hours.

[Edited 2014-03-09 03:02:59]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-09 03:06:22 and read 64846 times.

Just with regards to terrorists claiming or not claiming- often you'll have have multiple groups claiming responsibility for an incident, even when they've got nothing to do with it. Authentication is another matter entirely.

As for the drug route- Thailand is known as an originating exporter, the two biggest 'distribution' centres in Europe being Amsterdam and Madrid.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: RWA380
Posted 2014-03-09 03:09:39 and read 64641 times.

Quoting dc863 (Reply 151):
What if and as I said it's a big IF, MH 370 was the first victim of a possible string of future bombings?

We had been told here in teh US, near the end of the Sochi games, that there were credible reasons to beleive that a new level of shoe bomb been created by the idiot that made the first one. This likely is totally unrelated, but at some point you got to test your product, even if it is deadly. It amazes me still, how hard we try as a species, to be as horrid to each other as we are. Pray for the best, prepare for the worst I guess.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: deaphen
Posted 2014-03-09 03:13:16 and read 63905 times.

Strangely you can log onto the two passengers (the alleged Italian and alleged Austrian) flight details on the KLM website....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: tommy1808
Posted 2014-03-09 03:16:33 and read 63139 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 188):

We had been told here in teh US, near the end of the Sochi games, that there were credible reasons to beleive that a new level of shoe bomb been created by the idiot that made the first one

Wow.. this must be the first credible reason to believe that a terror strike is imminent we had in decades....

best regards

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: cipango
Posted 2014-03-09 03:19:08 and read 62553 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 40):
This is NOT a pic of the debris. I fly HKG-SIN twice every week on UA and I have seen this. This pic was taken at night. They're actually flower plantations in Vietnam. I took a few pics a couple of weeks back to make a nice instagram pic, but it turned out too blurry. I can guarantee from my own personal experience, that this pic is not of debris but rather of the very irregular shape of flower farms in Vietnam.

I will second this! The "glowing" flower fields are by far one of my favourite sights out of an aircraft window. Like Coal, I used to fly UA HKG-SIN often and I saw these fields every time.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2014-03-09 03:21:32 and read 62032 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 107):
we would expect a pretty large debris field by now due to the sea curents



And for the other reasons you mentioned. The fact that the Valujet debris field was the size of a manhole cover was in part due t the fact that the Everglades are basically a mud puddle, not an ocean.

However, as you point out, it's odd that given the daylight they are finding nothing. Maybe looking in the wrong place? Same thing happened with Air France until it was finally found. And to some extent with TWA800. If half of Long Island wasn't looking at the latter, it might have been the same...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: lugie
Posted 2014-03-09 03:31:23 and read 59984 times.

Quoting dc863 (Reply 151):
If it was a terrorist bombing and that's a big IF, then perhaps terrorist cell XYZ has performed a successful test run with a "formula" bomb. Cell XYZ now realizes that it has a working bomb that could be used aboard other flights. We have seen time and time again that terrorists have tried many times but failed thus far to plant bombs in shoes, underwear, liquids, etc that are to be detonated by a lunatic onboard. What if and as I said it's a big IF, MH 370 was the first victim of a possible string of future bombings?

I have been thinking about this as well and, to be honest, it seems like a quite concerning situation to me. If (and of course still a big IF) the flight was a terrorist attack and as you suspected, maybe even some kind of dry run for

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 188):
a new level of shoe bomb been created by the idiot that made the first one

then we'd encounter ourselves in a quite intimidating situation, as the terrorists would know that the new technique obviously does work, but nobody else would know about any additional security measurements since they haven't even found the wreckage yet.

And this again could (COULD!) help potential terrorists perform something as devastating as a succesful version of the Bojinka or 2006 transatlantic flights plot.

But please, stay calm, it was just a very far-spun pessimistic fantasy of mine...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Jitesh
Posted 2014-03-09 03:33:52 and read 59469 times.

What is the procedure pilots make if there is a hijacking?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vivekman2006
Posted 2014-03-09 03:40:47 and read 58027 times.

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 183):
Quoting Coal (Reply 182):
Yellow? Life jackets?

Or if it is a big object - a life raft from the aircraft, maybe? Are those yellow in colour?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-09 03:50:44 and read 56136 times.

Twitter has a photo of some oil / fuel in the ocean near To Chu island here: https://twitter.com/Mugsysam/status/442580940187897856/photo/1.

In the same area as the object mentioned above.

While it's most likely the plane is in the sea somewhere following a catasrophe of some kind, is it possible it was subject to hijacking? At 40 mins it wouldn't be long after the seat belt signs had gone off and people started moving about. With suspicious passengers on board could it have rapidly descended (by force of some kind) to an unobservable height and flown somewhere else? I know this is likely a flight of fancy, but why was the transponder off and why are there no traces of the signals from the black boxes?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 03:51:15 and read 55912 times.

Quoting Jitesh (Reply 195):
What is the procedure pilots make if there is a hijacking?

Quite a broad question. But surely... Do whatever saves the most lives. And it always depends on the hijacker. Fight back 9/11-style hijackers. Or cooperate if they just want asylum in another country, for example.

Squawk 7500. Or use any other (possible) mean to inform ATC.


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 03:52:38 and read 55737 times.

Quoting Jitesh (Reply 195):
What is the procedure pilots make if there is a hijacking?

No one can open the cockpit door from the outside. So in any case the very first thing that must happen would be a distress call by the pilots. I cant believe in hijacking. If it was a bomb the Malaysian checkers did an exceptionally bad job, and they deserve to be punished for it. Two men with fake passports on board, plus a bomb. And no one claiming responsibility? At least as hard to believe as structural failure of the 777 itself.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: ThomasCook
Posted 2014-03-09 03:55:05 and read 55241 times.

Quoting vivekman2006 (Reply 198):
Or if it is a big object - a life raft from the aircraft, maybe? Are those yellow in colour?

Slide rafts are generally grey with a yellow/orange canopy fitted only after a ditching.

ThomasCook

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: anstar
Posted 2014-03-09 03:58:16 and read 54755 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 71):
If accurate, it would mean that the plane's transponder was off and the military radar would show the plane's movement regardless of the transponder being off.

Could it be possible civillian radar saw the last complete image of the 777 and the militsry radr perhaps caught a piece of metal flying in the opposite direction after the explosion?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: dahawaiian
Posted 2014-03-09 04:02:46 and read 54075 times.

It looks like the National Reconnaissance Office has chimed in on the matter.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mis...idnt-explode-new-york-times-n48186

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: specks159
Posted 2014-03-09 04:16:29 and read 50855 times.

Quoting dahawaiian (Reply 200):

It looks like the National Reconnaissance Office has chimed in on the matter.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mis...idnt-explode-new-york-times-n48186

Well that's interesting. Although I wouldn't necessarily say that rules out the possibility of any explosion, just a large one. I don't know how sensitive the sensors being used are, but there still could have been an explosion either small and cold enough not to register, or something shielded from the satellites view by the plane, which could have been enough to bring it down.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: UALWN
Posted 2014-03-09 04:18:08 and read 51368 times.

If there were indeed 4 people with stolen passports on board, that to me would make the bomb theory rather unlikely: why do you need 4 people to carry and detonate a bomb? [I guess one could think that each one carried 100 ml of liquid into the plane, then congregated somehow, put it all together and built the bomb in the plane, but it sounds rather far fetched.] On the other hand, this would make a hi-jack event more likely. A hijacking that somehow went very wrong.

[Edited 2014-03-09 04:21:26]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-09 04:20:21 and read 50796 times.

Quoting anstar (Reply 199):

I'm guessing that to be extremely unlikely...i mean, even after an explosion pieces travel in the same direction, don't they?
In the case of a jet at cruise, i mean.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: awthompson
Posted 2014-03-09 04:24:03 and read 50384 times.

Quoting grimey (Reply 89):
Agree but if you were carrying drugs China would be one of the last places you would want to stopover
Quoting Coal (Reply 102):
Also, the drugs going from Thailand to Holland? Doesn't add up.

Drug mules do need to get home again! How do we know whether these person were traveling outbound or inbound?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: specks159
Posted 2014-03-09 04:25:19 and read 50036 times.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 203):

Quoting anstar (Reply 199):

I'm guessing that to be extremely unlikely...i mean, even after an explosion pieces travel in the same direction, don't they?
In the case of a jet at cruise, i mean.

More or less yes depending on the force of the explosion. There most definitely would be pieces heading in the same direction, so I don't see how a radar operator could mistake a piece flying away as an aircraft, when he will also be getting returns from all of the other pieces.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-09 04:31:22 and read 49052 times.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 202):
If there were indeed 4 people with stolen passports on board, that to me would make the bomb theory rather unlikely: why do you need 4 people to carry and detonate a bomb? [I guess one could think that each one carried 100 ml of liquid into the plane, then congregated somehow, put it all together and built the bomb in the plane, but it sounds rather far fetched.] On the other hand, this would make a hi-jack event more likely. A hijacking that somehow went very wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin_Airlines_Flight_7554

That flight had 6 Uighur terrorists in it, although it seems like their main plan was to hijack the plane they also had explosives... But if it had been a hijack attempt one would think the pilots would have had enough time to notify ATC.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: specks159
Posted 2014-03-09 04:32:17 and read 48820 times.

Not to double post but,

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

They updated the article with information that the yellow object spotted earlier is not related to MH370.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 04:36:16 and read 48288 times.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 202):
A hijacking that somehow went very wrong.

In any case of highjacking pilots have enough time to send out a distress message. The cockpit door is armoured. So if someone forces to enter it, one pilot may open it, but the other has only one option: an emergency call.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: awthompson
Posted 2014-03-09 04:44:31 and read 46517 times.

I somehow think that the hijacking and/or bomb scenarios are unlikely. We went through all such discussions with AFR 447 and failed to believe that the chain of events culminating in the loss of the aircraft was something rather less benign.

There are thousands of persons travelling around on false passports all over the world every day, with a particular concentration in east Asia ie. Thailand, Philippines etc. Of course the examples allegedly on board MH370 need to be quickly investigated at least for the purpose of elimination.

I also don't get taken by speculation that transponder and all communication equipment could have been turned off and the plane flown at low level to a crash or landing side outside the area of immediate search. I think those speculators have been watching too many films.

The debris/wreckage site most likely will be found in the general vicinity of where last contact was made.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: kelebek
Posted 2014-03-09 04:45:57 and read 46654 times.

Quoting na (Reply 208):
In any case of highjacking pilots have enough time to send out a distress message. The cockpit door is armoured. So if someone forces to enter it, one pilot may open it, but the other has only one option: an emergency call.

I slightly disagree.

When travelling in C class you can always see how the FA enters the flight deck to serve food/drinks to the flight crew. Therefore the FA would know the door, the flight crew would check through the camera that's her and release the door lock. The FA opens the door and enters. Would be super easy to jump up from a C clas seat and head forward following the FA into the cockpit. Not always does the FA close the door behind him/her when she enters the flight deck, I often see that the door is left open up to half a minute with the FA in the flight deck.

This is what I am seeing on various airlines. Would be interested if commercial pilots can double that?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Singapore 777
Posted 2014-03-09 04:51:46 and read 45464 times.

Quoting kelebek (Reply 210):
Would be super easy to jump up from a C clas seat and head forward following the FA into the cockpit. Not always does the FA close the door behind him/her when she enters the flight deck, I often see that the door is left open up to half a minute with the FA in the flight deck.

Not on VA for sure...

I noticed on a recent flight that whenever the cabin manager wants to enter the cockpit, he/she will signal to an FA in the main cabin to come forward and that FA will then basically stand in front of the C class cabin facing the back of the plane. The cabin manager will only enter the cockpit after the FA stands guard. The "guarding" FA will be released back to normal duties only after the cabin manager emerges from the cockpit and the door is secured.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 04:51:59 and read 45412 times.

Quoting kelebek (Reply 210):
This is what I am seeing on various airlines. Would be interested if commercial pilots can double that?

Now that would be gross negligence to say the least. I havent seen that in a long time. And what sense would an armoured door have then?
And even if, should a pilot not have enough time to press a button so the cockpit could be overheard?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: uta999
Posted 2014-03-09 04:54:11 and read 44767 times.

If those passports were stolen many months ago, that points to lengthy planning, which points to terrorism.

This 777 has been missing now for over two days. Could it be a deliberate hijacking of the plane itself, to use it as part of a terror attack? Is the plane still in one piece on the ground somewhere?

...Overpower the crew, turn off the oxygen supply to disable all those onboard, then minutes later a rapid descent to avoid radar. Dump fuel over the sea at low level to create a slick. Fly to a remote location 3000 miles away.

You are no longer looking for wreckage, but a plane.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: AustrianZRH
Posted 2014-03-09 04:55:49 and read 44925 times.

Quoting kelebek (Reply 210):
Would be super easy to jump up from a C clas seat and head forward following the FA into the cockpit. Not always does the FA close the door behind him/her when she enters the flight deck, I often see that the door is left open up to half a minute with the FA in the flight deck.

The guys with the stolen passports traveled in economy, though.

I don't know which outcome to favor: terrorism, to release aircraft and crew from guilt, or a "normal" accident to not have another terrorist attack  Sad  Sad

[Edited 2014-03-09 04:56:14]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Koosi
Posted 2014-03-09 04:55:58 and read 44793 times.

Quoting awthompson (Reply 204):
Quoting Coal (Reply 102):
Also, the drugs going from Thailand to Holland? Doesn't add up.

Drug mules do need to get home again! How do we know whether these person were traveling outbound or inbound?

Thailand to AMS and on to the rest of Europe is (or at least used to be) a popular heroin smuggling route. A not so direct routing makes sense (as does the use of a cheap one way ticket). The problem I have with this theory is the use of stolen passports. Why would you want to increase the chances of getting caught???

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: BAeRJ100
Posted 2014-03-09 04:58:15 and read 44057 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 213):
...Overpower the crew, turn off the oxygen supply to disable all those onboard, then minutes later a rapid descent to avoid radar.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can "turn off" the oxygen - you can alter the pressurisation, which is different, but if cabin pressure became too low I'd think the oxygen masks would automatically deploy.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 05:00:33 and read 43768 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 213):
...Overpower the crew, turn off the oxygen supply to disable all those onboard, then minutes later a rapid descent to avoid radar. Dump fuel over the sea at low level to create a slick. Fly to a remote location 3000 miles away.

This is not a James Bond movie. And there would inevitably be traces, let alone the fact that there are no unknown places were such a plane could land.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2014-03-09 05:02:23 and read 43295 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 213):

If those passports were stolen many months ago, that points to lengthy planning, which points to terrorism.

Not necessarily true, it points to the fact that the passports were stolen many months ago. Passports are stolen (or "sold" more often throughout the region as explained up-thread), and end up in the hands of a few dealers. They are then sold on whenever a customer comes forward and chooses what he prefers. They might have been bought the day before leaving BKK

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: lh648
Posted 2014-03-09 05:03:10 and read 43319 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 213):

Passports may have been stollen, have went to the black passport market, spend there some time waiting for a new owner and then have been purchased.

Or they were intensively used for the last two years. Can anybody check if these passports were used before in GDS? Or it's not possible?

[Edited 2014-03-09 05:05:04]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: vegas005
Posted 2014-03-09 05:08:49 and read 42622 times.

Quoting Singapore 777 (Reply 211):

Quoting kelebek (Reply 210):
Would be super easy to jump up from a C clas seat and head forward following the FA into the cockpit. Not always does the FA close the door behind him/her when she enters the flight deck, I often see that the door is left open up to half a minute with the FA in the flight deck.

Not on VA for sure...

I noticed on a recent flight that whenever the cabin manager wants to enter the cockpit, he/she will signal to an FA in the main cabin to come forward and that FA will then basically stand in front of the C class cabin facing the back of the plane. The cabin manager will only enter the cockpit after the FA stands guard. The "guarding" FA will be released back to normal duties only after the cabin manager emerges from the cockpit and the door is secured.

I just flew on a 747 in the upper deck business class and the flight attendant would come by with two trays of food, kick the bottom of the cockpit door with his foot and then the cockpit door would open. I could have been in the cockpit easily, so if I could do it I'm sure the bad guys have figured it out.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: CXfirst
Posted 2014-03-09 05:13:26 and read 41431 times.

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 214):
The guys with the stolen passports traveled in economy, though.

I would think this would have been checked by now, but do we know if these passports have been used for other flights lately? If so, they could have been used for smuggling multiple times.

Although, I'm having a bit of trouble understanding why you would use a stolen passport for drug smuggling. There are plenty of Europeans who have gotten themselves into trouble in places like Thailand, where drug smuggling is an option to get out of it, but they would do that on their own passports. People smuggling perhaps, but what is the market for Caucasians wanting to enter Europe from Asia?

As for the terrorism theory, the onwards tickets are easy to explain, as they would not need Chinese visas if they are transiting, but the same problem again. The passports were of Caucasians, and the most likely terrorists would not be, and even if they were, I'm not all too sure they would need fake passports anyway.

-CXfirst

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2014-03-09 05:13:48 and read 41402 times.

Quoting awthompson (Reply 209):
The debris/wreckage site most likely will be found in the general vicinity of where last contact was made.

What radius do you think would be a reasonablde assumption? As I said further above, this reported "yellow object" was found some 175 km away. By the way, will there be any official update about the search mission?

Quoting uta999 (Reply 213):
If those passports were stolen many months ago, that points to lengthy planning, which points to terrorism.

But I'd guess that stolen passports can wander through a number of hands until finally someone gets it who has a plan what to do with it (other than selling it). Whatever the intention of those travelling under false names was, getting those passports likely was not the most difficult part of the plan. (So, the mere fact that stolen passports were involved does in my opinion not point to a lengthy planning).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: giopan1975
Posted 2014-03-09 05:16:07 and read 40803 times.

This unjustified prolonged disapearance coincides with the escalation of the crisis in Ukraine which is becoming 2nd issue on global media over the past 48 hours.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-09 05:16:34 and read 40889 times.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 222):

The yellow object was not related to the plane
http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-09 05:20:09 and read 40116 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 106):
Interesting details.. One of the relative of Chinese passenger tried to ring the phone of their relative, it rang but no one answered. Should phones be turn off during flights right or atleast in airplane mode?

Technologically virtually impossible.

2G networks in the SEA use GSM, which has a technological range limitation of around 35km. On top of that, cell towers in rural areas typically have a range below 20km. 3G networks have a higher technological range limitation but still limit this range to about 20km.

For this to be possible, the passenger’s mobile phone must be either on land, the plane floating somewhere on sea within range of the nearest coastal cell tower, or accidentally register on the cellular service of a passing cruise-liner. Unfortunately, such things only happen in Hollywood movies.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2014-03-09 05:20:28 and read 40096 times.

This is now all the more important we find the remains of the plane and especially recover the flight data recorder (FDR) and cockpit voice recorder (CVR). That is about the only way we can start to piece together just exactly what happened during the final moments of the flight.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: kelebek
Posted 2014-03-09 05:24:45 and read 40478 times.

Quoting Singapore 777 (Reply 211):
Not on VA for sure...

I noticed on a recent flight that whenever the cabin manager wants to enter the cockpit, he/she will signal to an FA in the main cabin to come forward and that FA will then basically stand in front of the C class cabin facing the back of the plane. The cabin manager will only enter the cockpit after the FA stands guard. The "guarding" FA will be released back to normal duties only after the cabin manager emerges from the cockpit and the door is secured.
Quoting na (Reply 212):
Now that would be gross negligence to say the least. I havent seen that in a long time. And what sense would an armoured door have then?
And even if, should a pilot not have enough time to press a button so the cockpit could be overheard?

Good procedure VA seems to have installed.
However I have never flown VA, but can confirm the security flaw for many mainstream airlines including SQ, NZ, LH,...

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 220):
I just flew on a 747 in the upper deck business class and the flight attendant would come by with two trays of food, kick the bottom of the cockpit door with his foot and then the cockpit door would open. I could have been in the cockpit easily, so if I could do it I'm sure the bad guys have figured it out.

Exactly!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-09 05:33:35 and read 39011 times.

I have theory, it could be possible case of suicide by either of the pilots? Sorry but nothing can be ruled out just now. Imagine if one pilot gone to toilet for loo break other pilot whos motive was suicide might have locked himself inside and would have nose dived? Pilot inside can switch off transponders isnt it?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: lh648
Posted 2014-03-09 05:33:50 and read 38953 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 225):
2G networks in the SEA use GSM, which has a technological range limitation of around 35km

It's 70 km with extended range cell, but in reality nobody will use it to cover sea...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: OV735
Posted 2014-03-09 05:33:52 and read 39164 times.

Quoting giopan1975 (Reply 223):
This unjustified prolonged disapearance coincides with the escalation of the crisis in Ukraine which is becoming 2nd issue on global media over the past 48 hours.

Are you suggesting that the disappearance of this flight could be a 'red herring' to draw the world's attention away from the crisis in Eastern Europe?

Seems unlikely to me.

This has probably been mentioned in these threads before, but if there was an explosion, at any altitude, wouldn't there be a wide area of floating debris?

Fear the worst, hope for the best. My thoughts are with the people looking to hear from their loved ones.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 05:35:40 and read 38700 times.

Quoting Jitesh (Reply 193):
What is the procedure pilots make if there is a hijacking?

As mentioned, make a distress call if possible. Squawk 7500 if possible. Comply with demands per captain's discretion.

Quoting na (Reply 208):

Quoting UALWN (Reply 202):
A hijacking that somehow went very wrong.

In any case of highjacking pilots have enough time to send out a distress message. The cockpit door is armoured. So if someone forces to enter it, one pilot may open it, but the other has only one option: an emergency call.

What if the flight crew is hijacking the plane? Or a flight attendant? Not saying this happened but it can happen.

Quoting awthompson (Reply 209):
also don't get taken by speculation that transponder and all communication equipment could have been turned off and the plane flown at low level to a crash or landing side outside the area of immediate search. I think those speculators have been watching too many films.

Probably. However the possibility cannot at this point be discounted.

Quoting Singapore 777 (Reply 211):
I noticed on a recent flight that whenever the cabin manager wants to enter the cockpit, he/she will signal to an FA in the main cabin to come forward and that FA will then basically stand in front of the C class cabin facing the back of the plane. The cabin manager will only enter the cockpit after the FA stands guard. The "guarding" FA will be released back to normal duties only after the cabin manager emerges from the cockpit and the door is secured.

Holding a corkscrew with the business end in evidence in many cases. Then again, this F/A would not be any hindrance to a person well trained in close quarters combat. But then again (again), surveillance camera or peephole are powerful things. It is not really as easy as many people think to get into the cockpit.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 213):
...Overpower the crew, turn off the oxygen supply to disable all those onboard, then minutes later a rapid descent to avoid radar. Dump fuel over the sea at low level to create a slick. Fly to a remote location 3000 miles away.

Just to be precise, airliners don't have oxygen supplies except in emergencies. The cabin is pressurized with air which is partly made up of oxygen.

Your scenario is possible but very James Bond-y. Not as easy to pull off as it sounds. Besides, what would be the purpose of these shenanigans?

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 228):
I have theory, it could be possible case of suicide by either of the pilots? Sorry but nothing can be ruled out just now. Imagine if one pilot gone to toilet for loo break other pilot whos motive was suicide might have locked himself inside and would have nose dived? Pilot inside can switch off transponders isnt it?

Suicide is certainly a possibility.

Switching off the transponder is easy. Just turn the switch to "Off". Or you can pull the circuit breaker if you want a bit more of a challenge.

[Edited 2014-03-09 05:40:26]

[Edited 2014-03-09 05:52:04]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-09 05:36:17 and read 38442 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 191):
Maybe looking in the wrong place?

That is literally the million buck question everybody turns to us as SMC to answer... Where do we start? If it was a deadstick glide from F350 they could be anywhere outside of 100nm from last radar report, assuming *all* electrics on board died suddenly, and the plane was still controllable. That makes it a bloody huge area, which is where military tracking on PSR would be absolutely invaluable (assuming that it exists). I have no idea of the military radar surveillance capability down there

We as SAR are always aware of the cost and wasting valuable resources to find the possible survivors. But then acutely aware of the 24 hour survival probability.

Which is why we plan for various scenarios, dive/disintegration, deadstick glide, etc etc. Sure 99% of my sar exercises were training, but the other 1% benefited.

We will likely never see the radar data in the public domain until much later on (if ever, as it has absolutely nothing to do with us) and know if they did turn (as the military say), and if they did was it left or right. How steep was the descent. Was it just an engine out deadstick glide.. Was it (possibly an uncontrolled) emergency descent at 10k+fpm. We can only speculate. But I remember drawing up at least three possible target search areas and then getting sea currents asap from the oceanography institute. We consulted with the maritime SAR blokes too and got as much valid data input as we could to narrow the search area. But currents don't stop at night and debris cand drift quite quickly depending on wind direction and speed as well as current direction (which in that region isn't likely to be fast) and speed and size/type/windage of debris...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 05:39:22 and read 38092 times.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 228):

I have theory, it could be possible case of suicide by either of the pilots? Sorry but nothing can be ruled out just now. Imagine if one pilot gone to toilet for loo break other pilot whos motive was suicide might have locked himself inside and would have nose dived? Pilot inside can switch off transponders isnt it?

As this has happened before (Egyptair and a recent one in Africa come to my mind. and there were more), of course that is a possibility which at least would perfectly explain that no distress call was made. But to commit suicide by killing 239 other people needs a lot of criminal and pathologic potential, deepest despair and an inhumane character. One should know by now if one of the pilots had a major problem.

[Edited 2014-03-09 05:50:35]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: iakobos
Posted 2014-03-09 05:40:47 and read 37699 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 225):

Technologically virtually impossible.
2G networks in the SEA use GSM, which has a technological range limitation of around 35km. On top of that, cell towers in rural areas typically have a range below 20km. 3G networks have a higher technological range limitation but still limit this range to about 20km.

Not at all, there is no limitation other than power output versus space attenuation + reflections and the antennas' beams orientation.
Under favorable conditions, a 200 nm link can be established.

Why do you think the signals frrom a 2 Watt satellitephone are perfectly picked up by the satellite 35,800km away ?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: 76er
Posted 2014-03-09 05:44:31 and read 36981 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 213):
...Overpower the crew, turn off the oxygen supply to disable all those onboard, then minutes later a rapid descent to avoid radar. Dump fuel over the sea at low level to create a slick

"Oxygen supply" cannot be turned off, but any airplane can be despressurized by turning off the packs and opening the outflow valve(s). When cabine altitude reaches a certain level the passenger oxygen masks will automatically drop. Dumping fuel won't work. Jet A1 will evaporate before it reaches the surface, unless you fly really low.

Your scenario has too much Hollywood written all over it.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: lh648
Posted 2014-03-09 05:49:07 and read 36127 times.

Quoting iakobos (Reply 234):
Not at all, there is no limitation other than power output versus space attenuation + reflections and the antennas' beams orientation.
Under favorable conditions, a 200 nm link can be established.

It's limited by time signal needs to travel and defined in the GSM standard. So no more than 70 km for GSM on 900 MHz.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: bobbypsp
Posted 2014-03-09 05:53:00 and read 35492 times.

First off bear with me as I've read through parts 1-4 and now just starting 5.

Someone mentioned seats only float if life vests provided. Also a "what if" they're still strapped in. I tend to disagree.

The forces of impact I would imagine would dislodge lots of material, including things like insulation blankets and seat cushions.

Re: passports. A few years ago I was gate/ticket agent. It was my understanding that all passports had to be machine readable.

Hypotheses: water depth not that deep. If a catastrophic event, is the water shallow enough for large sections of the a/c could possibly be in mud?

Otoh. I agree all of thes events should have left evidence of a water ditch/crash.

Prayers and thoughts we can start to rampup and get answers

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: PC12Fan
Posted 2014-03-09 06:00:55 and read 33856 times.

Please pardon my laziness as I have not read the latest threads, but has there been any mention of anyone locating an ELT signal yet?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 06:01:34 and read 33888 times.

Quoting bobbypsp (Reply 238):
First off bear with me as I've read through parts 1-4 and now just starting 5.

Kudos to you! It is a chore but I wish more people at least made the effort to skim before jumping in.

Quoting bobbypsp (Reply 238):
Someone mentioned seats only float if life vests provided. Also a "what if" they're still strapped in. I tend to disagree.

If memory serves that comment was facetious. In any case I would agree that bits of a broken up plane, for example seat cushions, will float.

Quoting bobbypsp (Reply 238):
Re: passports. A few years ago I was gate/ticket agent. It was my understanding that all passports had to be machine readable.

Sure. But even stolen ones are machine readable. Inter-country databases don't update instantly.

Quoting bobbypsp (Reply 238):
Hypotheses: water depth not that deep. If a catastrophic event, is the water shallow enough for large sections of the a/c could possibly be in mud?

The gulf is mostly not that shallow. The average depth is 50m or so. Of course if an impact was close to shore.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-09 06:03:06 and read 33511 times.

Quoting iakobos (Reply 234):
Not at all, there is no limitation other than power output versus space attenuation + reflections and the antennas' beams orientation.

The GSM limitation comes from the maximum permissible delay inherent to TDMA. Besides, even without that restriction, how many people do you see walking around with a Power Class 2 GSM handphone? 

Quoting iakobos (Reply 234):
Why do you think the signals frrom a 2 Watt satellitephone are perfectly picked up by the satellite 35,800km away ?

That comparison is flawed, which you probably know very well 

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: ash1111
Posted 2014-03-09 06:03:41 and read 33786 times.

Quoting irregking (Reply 236):


I am a flight attendant in Australia. Cameras DO NOT stop someone from storming the flight deck while the door is open. They only show who is outside the flight deck. Even in the picture you've uploaded, the distance between the first row and flight deck door wouldn't even be 2m.

A person stationed outside to guard is still the best option.

Being in aviation, I'm sure you've heard of the Swiss cheese model. The more layers of protection, the better.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2014-03-09 06:06:19 and read 33322 times.

The pilot of a Malaysia Airlines jet that went missing on Saturday enjoyed flying the Boeing 777 so much that he spent his off days tinkering with a flight simulator of the plane that he had set up at home, current and former co-workers said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...-crash-pilot-idUSBREA280BK20140309

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: irregking
Posted 2014-03-09 06:06:19 and read 32817 times.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 240):

Negative. Only thing that was found so far was still the oild slick. But nothing found so far which can be 100% associated to 9M-MRO. They have to find the debris field first and determine an approx crash site before they can concentrate on the ELT signal.

9Mar/1400UTC

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 06:06:40 and read 32902 times.

The sea there is just about 250 km times 500 km large. It really worries me that nothing could be found, given the SAR assets put to action. The P-3 Orions, C-130, the countless helicopters...


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: airbazar
Posted 2014-03-09 06:08:18 and read 32855 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 82):
And they have sequential ticket numbers too... But before anyone jump and say "haha! This is the smoking gun"... consider:
1. Two drug dealers; or
2. Two illegal immigrant wannabes;
Buying 2 tickets together after successfully sourcing the illegal passports...

Thank you. That's what I've been saying since the beginning.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: irregking
Posted 2014-03-09 06:10:19 and read 32472 times.

Quoting ash1111 (Reply 242):
Cameras DO NOT stop someone from storming the flight deck while the door is open.

Hunty, I am aware of that and I NEVER said they STOP anyone. I simply replied to the other user who purported that the one can open cockpit doors simply by knocking on them, in his case with a foot.
Read the quoted text first and make sure you associate correctly before having a go at any user on here.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: irregking
Posted 2014-03-09 06:12:15 and read 31950 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 245):

The sea there is just about 250 km times 500 km large. It really worries me that nothing could be found, given the SAR assets put to action. The P-3 Orions, C-130, the countless helicopters...

Indeed, I am starting to raise an eyebrow, too about this. Where is that plane?!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-09 06:17:18 and read 33035 times.

Due to its length this thread will be locked down for additional contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 6:

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Thanks and regards,

SA7700


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