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Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-09 06:13:50 and read 108807 times.

Due to length part 5 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 6.


MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Thanks and regards,

SA7700

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 06:15:14 and read 109092 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 245):
The sea there is just about 250 km times 500 km large. It really worries me that nothing could be found, given the SAR assets put to action. The P-3 Orions, C-130, the countless helicopters...

Seas are large places. 250x500km may not sound that large but this is 125000 square kilometers (a bit under 50k square miles). Even with this fleet of planes and ships it is a fairly large area to search through.

Then again, it seems increasingly odd that nothing has been found considering several bits of an airplane involved a crash should be calling for attention.

Much as I find it rather ridiculous the Flight 714 to Sydney scenario has a certain appeal to it.



[Edited 2014-03-09 06:17:00]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: poolkeeper
Posted 2014-03-09 06:21:06 and read 108822 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 225):

The antennas are built to send the signal with maximum range horizontally and the most limiting factor is earths curvature. As said above there are extended range cell sites that can reach longer mounted on very high antennas along highways in rural areas.
The limitation is normally on the cell phone side as they have limited output power and can't send a signal strong enough to "talk" with the cell site.
The opposite is in more populated areas where you want a very small coverage and many cell sites to increase capacity. You limit the output power and/or tilt the antennas so in a city you can have less than a 1 km of reach per site.

So you can get a signal in an airplane but only if you fly on lower altitude and close to an area with cell site. If you have several cell sites you run into problem with the airplanes speed (specially with 2G), you can be connected but your calls will fail as you are trying to change from tower to tower and the network can't keep up.
(Off topic: This is also one of the reasons the mobile operators are against using phones on airplanes, it messes up their network at take offs and landings if you have have 1000s of phones trying to be connected at high speed)

When they talk about making calls on an airplane then it is routed through satellites.
In case of mobile calls you have a very small cell on-board with a very low output power (nano cell or pico cell), the same as you can use to increase indoor coverage in buildings.

You can get the ring tone even if you are calling a shutdown cell phone specially when you call somebody who is roaming. When you call a person, your operator needs to know where the person is located.
This is done by talking to the called phones network database (HLR in 2G) and there you have information where to route your call (operator, area etc).
So if the person is roaming, your network need to communicate with the foreign network to connect the call. If you have left your phone on when you take off, the phone will not get de-registered correctly and the network will still try to page it when a call arrives.
All this takes a lot of time and not to give the caller just silence (caller will hang up), a ringing tone can be generated. You can notice this sometimes with international calls when you first have one ringing tone and then it changes to a different one.

Sorry for the long answer... maybe got too carried away  

Copied from previous thread as it was posted after closing of thread

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 06:22:34 and read 108847 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Much as I find it rather ridiculous the Flight 714 to Sydney scenario has a certain appeal to it.

Funny, that also came to my mind. Not anymore though unfortunately.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: irregking
Posted 2014-03-09 06:22:55 and read 108698 times.

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 220):
I just flew on a 747 in the upper deck business class and the flight attendant would come by with two trays of food, kick the bottom of the cockpit door with his foot and then the cockpit door would open. I could have been in the cockpit easily, so if I could do it I'm sure the bad guys have figured it out.
Quoting kelebek (Reply 227):
Quoting vegas005 (Reply 220):
I just flew on a 747 in the upper deck business class and the flight attendant would come by with two trays of food, kick the bottom of the cockpit door with his foot and then the cockpit door would open. I could have been in the cockpit easily, so if I could do it I'm sure the bad guys have figured it out.

Exactly!

4 words: Cockpit door surveillance camera.
I am sure they checked it before opening the door for the busy-handed FA on your flight.
Cockpit doors don't open just because someone bangs them with their foot (or knocks on them in a normal way).

Example:



PS. I just love people who post on here, who yet think that all cabin crew are helpless and not properly trained and are just doing the job for the non-existing glamour of it all.   
Yes, we are helpless against weapons and maniacs who are stronger than us but we CAN get help if we need it and I can ASSURE you that cockpit doors shut A LOT quicker than they open. This is my halfwhat-off-topic two cents to the people on here who think that the systems in place are completely worthless.

As I always say to anyone who throws a hissy-fit about air-travel security: "If you don't feel safe, don't fly!" (Which is usually followed by "Now please sit down or get off.")  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-09 06:23:50 and read 108676 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Much as I find it rather ridiculous the Flight 714 to Sydney scenario has a certain appeal to it.

Indeed it would be much better if they landed on an island in between Flores and Timor in Indonesia   

Still unbelievable to know that it has been nearly 48hrs and they haven't been able to find anything.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cipango
Posted 2014-03-09 06:26:55 and read 108210 times.

I thought I would do a quick recap for people that haven't read through the previous posts and show the most topics of debate/speculation:

- The flight has supposedly gone down 40 mins into the flight rather than 2 hours in as previously reported. 2 hours is when Malaysia was informed of the plane going missing.

- Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, USA, Philippines (and maybe China) are currently helping in the search effort.

- The sea is only ~60m/100 ft deep where it has supposedly crashed.

- 2 passengers were travelling with stolen passports and have purchased a ticket simultaneously as their E-ticket numbers were only one digit apart. They were flying KUL-PEK-AMS-CPH.

- The passengers who have had their passports stolen said they were taken in Thailand over the last two years and they were supposedly older passports with no chip - simply speculation that part.

- One Russian was stopped in KUL for using a stolen passport and was not allowed to board.

- An oil slick has been spotted just off Vietnam but this has yet to be confined as a link to the flight.

- Agent in KUL that did not spot the stolen passport is being questioned/charged.

- SAR has spotted some objects in the sea which could be "Yellow Lifejackets" but this has recently been dismissed.

This of course is not everything that has been discussed but I thought I would help some catch up rather than read through the 1500+ posts. Also it might help end repeat questions.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: NDiesel
Posted 2014-03-09 06:28:40 and read 107974 times.

Reports of debris found by search plane....

http://stream.wsj.com/story/malaysia...light-370/SS-2-475558/SS-2-476118/

* Amongst debris is apparently a piece of the tail and piece of an inner door.

[Edited 2014-03-09 06:30:03]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 06:29:39 and read 108044 times.

Already mentioned but has been dismissed as untrue by officials.

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
This of course is not everything that has been discussed but I thought I would help some catch up rather than read through the 1500+ posts.

   Nice one.

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
Also it might help end repeat questions.

Yes, it might help. It won't fix it, though.  

[Edited 2014-03-09 06:34:55]

[Edited 2014-03-09 08:14:26 by SA7700]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: giopan1975
Posted 2014-03-09 06:30:27 and read 107836 times.

According to pilot below MH370 was still in the air at 1:30 am

SEPANG: A BOEING 777 pilot, who was flying 30 minutes ahead of the missing Malaysia Airlines aircraft, said he established contact with MH370 minutes after he was asked to do so by Vietnamese air traffic control.

The captain, who asked to not be named, said his plane, which was bound for Narita, Japan, was far into Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to relay, using his plane's emergency frequency, to MH370 for the latter to establish its position, as the authorities could not contact the aircraft.

"We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.

"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53,) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.

"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.

"That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he told the New Sunday Times.

http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general...-with-plane-1.503464#ixzz2vQyqusET

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 06:30:57 and read 107770 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 249):

How I love Tintin - and this episode, "Flight 714 to Sydney", is among my favorites.

Hmmm. I imagined a single airplane with its crew could search a strip about 2-3 kilometers wide. Then, every 15 kilometers one search flight (assuming that the debris is spread quite wide) should be manageable. And by now, at least some floating debris should have been found. But perhaps a marine SAR guy could chip in...

So this is either a Hollywood-style hijacking to a secret Tintin island, or the plane rather was rather atomized upon impact, SR111-style, and leaving no floating debris.


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: HansHubers
Posted 2014-03-09 06:31:10 and read 107762 times.

Quoting cipango (Reply 7):
2 passengers were travelling with stolen passports and have purchased a ticket simultaneously as their E-ticket numbers were only one digit apart. They were flying KUL-PEK-AMS-CPH

The other passenger was flying KUL-PEK-AMS-FRA if I'm not mistaken.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: voodoo
Posted 2014-03-09 06:31:56 and read 107738 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Much as I find it rather ridiculous the Flight 714 to Sydney scenario has a certain appeal to it.


Thanks for the image of the TinTin swing wing SST Falcon! I recall that comic edition fondly.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: NDiesel
Posted 2014-03-09 06:36:19 and read 107041 times.



#MH370 Vietnam search and rescue aircraft spotted new floating object. Authorities are not sure what it is.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 06:37:01 and read 107050 times.

Just in - Luigi Maraldi, the owner of one of the stolen passports, appeared at a press conference in Phuket:

http://files.newsnetz.ch/bildlegende/141164/1736668_pic_970x641.jpg

Both stolen passports were registered with Interpol, but Malaysia didn't update the list of invalid travel documents. Apparently both passports haven't been used since 2012 and 2013, respectively (or they have been used in a way that wouldn't trigger suspicion with any government).

David

[Edited 2014-03-09 06:41:14]

[Edited 2014-03-09 06:42:12]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 06:38:30 and read 106674 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 8):
Quoting NDiesel (Reply 13):
#MH370 Vietnam search and rescue aircraft spotted new floating object. Authorities are not sure what it is.

They should fly deeper and/or should use a better camera than a cellphone, then they may identify it.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: B738flyUIA
Posted 2014-03-09 06:40:13 and read 106688 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 10):
..... or the plane rather was rather atomized upon impact, SR111-style, and leaving no floating debris.

That was also my thoughts about SR111 when entered yesterday to Net and see the news about MH370. Also the Flight AF447 came to my mind and really can't think of others in this kind.

All participants are really making a great job to find MH370 and should be thanked for there work done till now.

Regards.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: irregking
Posted 2014-03-09 06:40:42 and read 106420 times.

With regards to fake ID's, here's a CNN article from 2009 which pretty much explains what's going down in Thailand with regards to that matter.

http://travel.cnn.com/bangkok/none/fake-ids-bangkok-137142

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 06:47:23 and read 105459 times.

Not trying to "solve the case" before the investigators, but the lack of debris concentrated in a límited area and the stolen passports lead to an intentional destruction of the plane at FL 350. I would be very happy if I'm completely wrong and the cause of this is related to a tech mistake or failure, but I'm turning more pesimistic every hour...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 06:47:33 and read 105474 times.

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 13):
#MH370 Vietnam search and rescue aircraft spotted new floating object. Authorities are not sure what it is.

If that's the "yellow object" reported a while ago, I think that has been declared as not pertaining to MH370.

Call me a cynic but I have an instinctive distrust of information that appears first on social media sites (I assume that's what the "#" signifies).   

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2014-03-09 06:54:15 and read 104166 times.

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 13):
Vietnam search and rescue aircraft spotted new floating object. Authorities are not sure what it is.

"The suspected fragments were found floating about 50 miles south-southwest of Tho Chu Island and were believed to be a piece of an inner door and part of an airplane tail, Vietnamese officials said. Earlier Sunday, Vietnam's search and rescue officials said that they were investigating a report about a suspected piece of yellow debris seen floating in the same area."
source: Wall Street Journal

How do the SAR guys arrive at any interpretations about what they might have spotted? Are there true experts at hand who can reliably identify aircraft parts? Are there any attempts to recover suspicious looking debris or is this "identification" simply done by looking at some blurred photos?

Yesterday's search concluded with an (alleged) oil smear; has this been investigated any further? Today, they came up with some other stuff. To me, this looks like some agency who is deperate to announce some kind of success.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 06:55:08 and read 104188 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):
Not trying to "solve the case" before the investigators, but the lack of debris concentrated in a límited area and the stolen passports lead to an intentional destruction of the plane at FL 350. I would be very happy if I'm completely wrong and the cause of this is related to a tech mistake or failure, but I'm turning more pesimistic every hour...

If terrorists would have blown the 777 up at flight level then there would be many loose parts, mostly small, floating over a relatively vast area. That no traces have been found in two days does more look like it went down at high speed largely in one piece, taking "everything" underwater in the event.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-09 06:55:52 and read 104185 times.

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 13):
Vietnam search and rescue aircraft spotted new floating object. Authorities are not sure what it is.

Almost looks like a window exit, though obviously the 777 doesn't have those.

If that's from the plane, it doesn't look like anything external, so it would have to be something from inside the cabin or fuselage.

-Mir

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-09 06:56:25 and read 103808 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):

If it had broken into pieces at FL350 I would imagine there would be plenty of debris to be found within large area, so far they have found none, which wasn't the case with most other in flight breakups.

I would rather say it crashed somewhere rather intact... I wonder if a bomb attack / failure of some kind would have caused the aircraft to disappear from radar a lot before it impacted the surface. If the damage had been serious enough to disable communications and such, yet still left the aircraft somewhat flyable could have made it to fly a lot off course before final impact. Perhaps it could have ended up in some rural parts of Malaysia, if the aircraft turned around? A crash site in middle of a rain forest could be difficult to spot.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 06:58:50 and read 105462 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):
the lack of debris concentrated in a límited area and the stolen passports lead to an intentional destruction of the plane at FL 350

Occam's Razor is all very well when there's a reasonable amount of evidence but I'm going to need more information before I even begin to guess what happened.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 07:00:01 and read 106749 times.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 21):
How do the SAR guys arrive at any interpretations about what they might have spotted? Are there true experts at hand who can reliably identify aircraft parts?

You dont have to be a true expert. I believe that most SAR guys have flown on airliners before and are able to identify parts of an aircraft tail or inner door panels. If they are serving with the SAR they naturally must have some interest and knowlegde in aviation and planes.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2014-03-09 07:03:19 and read 108701 times.

Hi everyone, I've been occupied with some things lately and sorry to have written a reply for a response on the previous thread here. I do have more questions that might have been discussed before, which hopefully some could explain.

Quoting mandala499,reply=82 previous thread:
Hey, anything's possible right?

I do agree with you here Mandala499, anything's possible on why those two passengers boarded MH370 with a fake passport. Whether they were drug mules, illegal immigrants, criminals attempting to fled a country, or they might be even directly related to the flight's disappearance.

Well I don't think we would know about it anytime soon, but then under this circumstances, I am quite curious on finding out the passengers background prior boarding this flight.

I noticed that the air tickets were bought in Thailand, just a day before the flight (?). This makes me wonder if these people come to KUL on another flight connection from Thailand, which probably they did not clear immigration at all in KUL. Or were these passengers did originated from KUL and clear immigration in KUL in order to board this particular flight?

Quoting macsid,reply=149 previous thread:
They also claim that 5 people checked in but never boarded, and that their luggage was removed.

Hmm, it was interesting to hear this. Did anyone knew if these lucky passengers booked their flight under CZ or MH booking system?

As a "No show" to this flight, how far did they made it before they decided not to board, wondered if they made it passed the security screening and inside the boarding gate? It is quite strange that the media have not picked up on these five lucky passengers into their coverage.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: infinit
Posted 2014-03-09 07:04:44 and read 109863 times.

Malaysia announced quickly that they welcome assistance from other governments in the search. So it seems there's Malaysian, Filipino, US, Chinese, Indonesian and Singaporean ships in the water.

I think it's a good thing Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia and Singapore are ASEAN members (and the US and China are ASEAN dialogue partners). While nowhere as integrated as the European Union, ASEAN has security and disaster management facets.. their foreign and defence ministers would know each other well. It'll be a test of how effective ASEAN regionalisation is.

I would speculate that if something like this happened in the East China Sea it's probably not going to be as smooth between China, Korea and Japan.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2014-03-09 07:04:58 and read 109901 times.

Quoting na (Reply 22):
If terrorists would have blown the 777 up at flight level then there would be many loose parts, mostly small, floating over a relatively vast area.

That's the way it looks to me as the hours pass.

Quoting na (Reply 22):
That no traces have been found in two days does more look like it went down at high speed largely in one piece, taking "everything" underwater in the event.

I'd rather say it crushed "everything" in the water. When you see what happened to SR 111 at about 300 knots...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-09 07:05:50 and read 109952 times.

Wall Street Journal reports that a piece of tail & inner door would have been found, I tried to add link but somehow my post is all empty now...

I hope that's not another false rumour.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2014-03-09 07:09:48 and read 108604 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 31):
Wall Street Journal reports that a piece of tail & inner door would have been found, I tried to add link but somehow my post is all empty now...

Already done.

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 7):
Reports of debris found by search plane....

http://stream.wsj.com/story/malaysia...light-370/SS-2-475558/SS-2-476118/

* Amongst debris is apparently a piece of the tail and piece of an inner door.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vegas005
Posted 2014-03-09 07:13:33 and read 107873 times.

Quoting irregking (Reply 4):

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 220):
I just flew on a 747 in the upper deck business class and the flight attendant would come by with two trays of food, kick the bottom of the cockpit door with his foot and then the cockpit door would open. I could have been in the cockpit easily, so if I could do it I'm sure the bad guys have figured it out.
Quoting kelebek (Reply 227):
Quoting vegas005 (Reply 220):
I just flew on a 747 in the upper deck business class and the flight attendant would come by with two trays of food, kick the bottom of the cockpit door with his foot and then the cockpit door would open. I could have been in the cockpit easily, so if I could do it I'm sure the bad guys have figured it out.

Exactly!

4 words: Cockpit door surveillance camera.
I am sure they checked it before opening the door for the busy-handed FA on your flight.
Cockpit doors don't open just because someone bangs them with their foot (or knocks on them in a normal way).

Example:



PS. I just love people who post on here, who yet think that all cabin crew are helpless and not properly trained and are just doing the job for the non-existing glamour of it all.   
Yes, we are helpless against weapons and maniacs who are stronger than us but we CAN get help if we need it and I can ASSURE you that cockpit doors shut A LOT quicker than they open. This is my halfwhat-off-topic two cents to the people on here who think that the systems in place are completely worthless.

The bad guys sit and watch all day every day for years at a time, they seek out the easy prey...if you don't think this then you are the helpless cabin crew you speak of...you need to very aware of your surroundings and policies at all times. The crew I watched was sloppy---I^ll leave it at that as I don't want to offend anyone. I know how tough the job is I'm just saying the bad guys have no time pressure,..they watch, they wait, they run small experiments etc...and this is a very hard scenario to beat 100 percent of the time.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: illinicmi
Posted 2014-03-09 07:13:49 and read 107813 times.

Naturally, since this new "floating item" was photographed from the air, and it's nighttime again, we won't hear anything for another 12 hours or so. And by then it will probably have floated away.

I'm still amazed at how little we know about what happened.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 07:14:11 and read 107200 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 33):
A floating object has been found.

I think that might be the "yellow object" reported earlier but since reported as having nothing to do with MH370. I think I saw that on BBC TV so no link, I'm afraid.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vr-hkg
Posted 2014-03-09 07:14:33 and read 107490 times.

So it appears that this was the WSJ's source:

http://infonet.vn/can-canh-manh-vo-n...malaysia-tren-bien-post121635.info

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-09 07:21:23 and read 105525 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):
Not trying to "solve the case" before the investigators, but the lack of debris concentrated in a límited area and the stolen passports lead to an intentional destruction of the plane at FL 350. I would be very happy if I'm completely wrong and the cause of this is related to a tech mistake or failure, but I'm turning more pesimistic every hour...

It remains a possibility, but unlikely given the based on the information (or lack of it) we have.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 24):
I would rather say it crashed somewhere rather intact... I wonder if a bomb attack / failure of some kind would have caused the aircraft to disappear from radar a lot before it impacted the surface. If the damage had been serious enough to disable communications and such, yet still left the aircraft somewhat flyable could have made it to fly a lot off course before final impact. Perhaps it could have ended up in some rural parts of Malaysia, if the aircraft turned around? A crash site in middle of a rain forest could be difficult to spot.

If that was where it went, the military radar would have picked it up as it will detect whether or not you have a transponder or not...

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 28):
I noticed that the air tickets were bought in Thailand, just a day before the flight (?). This makes me wonder if these people come to KUL on another flight connection from Thailand, which probably they did not clear immigration at all in KUL. Or were these passengers did originated from KUL and clear immigration in KUL in order to board this particular flight?

If they flew from Thailand, then it opens the gate for a lot of possibilities. If they carried no luggage, they can simply fly out of somewhere with a different name, then went onto this flight using these names and these fake passports. This doesn't rule out terrorism, but also doesn't rule out immigration/refugee/ etc... Not sure about the laws but if they're found to have fake IDs, they would be arrested... if they're seeking refugee status, that's where they'll then declare refugee status (and reveal their real identities for protection). If they're to be thrown back to where they came from... where would you send them back to? China? They didn't come from China... Malaysia? Well, is there evidence they passed through immigration in Malaysia... etc etc...now if they had done started a flight using different names and passports then switched onto this, if they're caught, the country where they landed can't send them to "nowhere". Just my guess anyways...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-09 07:26:24 and read 104374 times.

Well i personally would find it strange if they would just find a single piece of derbis and no other pieces in the area nearby. And what about the messages what was picked up in utapao by the us army that the captain reported something like "damage on the fuselage"? Was that checked further of investigated? I personally think two or more persons had a kind of bomb shoe and maybe blew up a small part of the airplane and then it went from bad to worse. It is just too much coincedense with those two people traveling with stolen passports.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 07:26:42 and read 103989 times.

Quoting illinicmi (Reply 36):
Naturally, since this new "floating item" was photographed from the air, and it's nighttime again, we won't hear anything for another 12 hours or so. And by then it will probably have floated away.

I hope they dropped a buoy/marker and directed a ship there which could salvage those parts overnight. Unless they are amateurs or badly equipped of course.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 07:33:17 and read 102735 times.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 40):
And what about the messages what was picked up in utapao by the us army that the captain reported something like "damage on the fuselage"? Was that checked further of investigated?

Yes it was. It was dismissed as not true.

Quoting na (Reply 41):
Unless they are amateurs or badly equipped of course.

... or it was determined that it had nothing to do with MH370.

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
Also it might help end repeat questions.

Ah well. At least you made the effort.  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: ZKCIF
Posted 2014-03-09 07:34:57 and read 102093 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 39):
If they flew from Thailand, then it opens the gate for a lot of possibilities. If they carried no luggage, they can simply fly out of somewhere with a different name, then went onto this flight using these names and these fake passports. This doesn't rule out terrorism, but also doesn't rule out immigration/refugee/ etc... Not sure about the laws but if they're found to have fake IDs, they would be arrested... if they're seeking refugee status, that's where they'll then declare refugee status (and reveal their real identities for protection). If they're to be thrown back to where they came from... where would you send them back to? China? They didn't come from China... Malaysia? Well, is there evidence they passed through immigration in Malaysia... etc etc...now if they had done started a flight using different names and passports then switched onto this, if they're caught, the country where they landed can't send them to "nowhere". Just my guess anyways...

Considering the distance from Pattaya and Kuala Lumpur, it is some struggle to get Pattaya-KUL overland in one day, at least a 14-hour ride. If all folks entering Malaysia overland are filmed/photographed, it's not that hard to check whether these guys passed the only (?) Thai/Malaysian border entry post. if these guys flew in on different passports, the Malaysian they could only have hand luggage on themselves. If they used the same identities, at least Thai migration should have had bells ringing as I believe these passports had to be recorded as 'stolen' in their system. Besides, the two guys had to contact some transfer desk in KUL as they transited with two different bookings. Looks artificially too complex for a terrorist operation.

I am totally sure the Authorities already know the way of these two guys coming to KLIA; otherwise they are extremely lousy. I am surprised and concerned that we get no information on this lead.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SASDC8
Posted 2014-03-09 07:36:45 and read 101534 times.

I am really astonished by the fact that they have still not found the aircraft, or even the crash site. Would think that we in 2014, we all our technology, should be able to find a downed 777 within 48 hours.

I really hope they find the aircraft soon, so that the relatives of those who perished and the rest of the world, can get some answers.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: lh648
Posted 2014-03-09 07:37:40 and read 101386 times.

You don't need to be in the country to purchase the tickets. Anyone can do it for you.

[Edited 2014-03-09 07:44:29]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: birdy
Posted 2014-03-09 07:39:27 and read 101257 times.

Object suspected of belonging to missing plane found Vietnam’s Civil Aviation Authority says a navy plane has found parts suspected of belonging to the Malaysian Airlines plane, Reuters reports.

The sighting has not yet been confirmed by Malaysian Airlines, which said an hour ago that it was waiting for information from search and rescue teams.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ng-plane-investigation-widens-live

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 07:40:30 and read 101491 times.

BBC is reporting as "Breaking News" that the Vietnamese Navy has found an object which is suspected to belong to the missing airliner. Perhaps something other than the "yellow object" has been found or perhaps the BBC headline writers are out of sync with some of the information they've reported.

  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-09 07:41:15 and read 100590 times.

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 44):
I am surprised and concerned that we get no information on this lead.

If all this stolen-passport-do you-need-a-visa-no-baggage-sneaking-into-countries stuff actually amounts to anything then it constitutes a criminal investigation in its early stages so it's not likely we would hear anything.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-09 07:44:01 and read 100062 times.

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 45):
Would think that we in 2014, we all our technology, should be able to find a downed 777 within 48 hours.

We in 2014 tend to have an inflated opinion of our capabilities.  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: ideekay
Posted 2014-03-09 07:44:11 and read 99862 times.

Finnish medias reports that a part of the airplane has been found according to vietnamese aviation authorities.
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288663322230.html?pos=navnow (finnish only)

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 07:45:34 and read 99776 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 39):
It remains a possibility, but unlikely given the based on the information (or lack of it) we have.

Oh absolutelly.... this case is exteremely intriguing.... AF 447 disappeared in a vast, remote área of the Atlantic, without the best radar coverage to say the least, crossing a big sector of bad weather and crashed in very deep water. Now we have MH370 vanished in the Gulf of Thailand, a place that somone described in the Part 1 of the thread as so full of small/midsize/big ships that you could confuse the stars on the sky with the lights in the sea. Good radar coverage. Shallow waters. Weather perfectly fine...I mean, where the **ll is the aircraft ???? I can only imagine how frustrated the SAR teams and specially the families of the passengers are after so many hours without knowing what happened...

Quoting David L (Reply 42):
Quoting cipango (Reply 6):Also it might help end repeat questions.Ah well. At least you made the effort.

I can understand the people saying things that were mentioned before. 5 threads at +/-250 post = 1.250 posts, some short, some others very long .... I had a lot of free time this weekend and I was not even close to read a third of all the posts....

Rgds.
G.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Alasdair1982
Posted 2014-03-09 07:45:48 and read 99717 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 48):
BBC is reporting as "Breaking News" that the Vietnamese Navy has found an object which is suspected to belong to the missing airliner. Perhaps something other than the "yellow object" has been found or perhaps the BBC headline writers are out of sync with some of the information they've reported.

Sky News are reporting the same 'breaking news'.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: PA515
Posted 2014-03-09 07:46:38 and read 99661 times.

Here is a link to a printout of the last six minutes of the flightradar24 data for MH370 from another forum.
www.dropbox.com/s/9n85w9rvfqxpwza/mh370.PNG

This was accompanied by comments about flightradar24 reception in that area and that coverage is from about 30,000 ft upwards. That could be due to the receiver's line of sight being affected by terrain or buildings. So for instance, if the aircraft went below 30,000 ft in 30 secs, the signal would be lost. Oceanic Control for that area may have better receivers and coverage than flightradar24 and have ADS-B info from a lower altitude.

PA515

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-09 07:46:53 and read 99162 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 42):
... or it was determined that it had nothing to do with MH370.

They would have said that and not the opposite, dont you think?

Quoting ideekay (Reply 51):
Finnish medias reports that a part of the airplane has been found according to vietnamese aviation authorities.
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288663322230.html?pos=navnow (finnish only)

Have you read the posts above? This news has been posted numerous times now.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: GianiDC
Posted 2014-03-09 07:47:27 and read 99041 times.

after reading many posts about how it is rather common that some crims or illegal immigrants travel with a stolen identity espacially in southeast asia and this interesting article about the passport black market in thailand, i personally think that the probability of a terroristic attack is rather low at the moment. surely this may change during the investigation.

seeing the route these two men took (KUL-PEK-AMS-FRA/CPH) and the possibility they originated in thailand and given the afformentioned strong drugspecific relationship between thailand and amsterdam, i am strengthend in my opinion.
and refering to the connections from AMS to FRA/CPH it may be a subtle move to blur their original intention of going to AMS.

i guess travelling with a stolen passport may be more common than we most of us think, we just happen to notice it now because of these very tragic circumstances.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-09 07:48:30 and read 98142 times.

The tickets for persons using stolen passports were bought together and obviously they were travelling together. If thinking about a shoe bomb or a luggage bomb, it doesn't make sense to have two persons. If thinking about a hijack, two persons is quite a small team. So I would be surprised if the stolen passports have anything to do with the plane disappearing.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: N328KF
Posted 2014-03-09 07:50:46 and read 97543 times.

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 45):
I am really astonished by the fact that they have still not found the aircraft, or even the crash site. Would think that we in 2014, we all our technology, should be able to find a downed 777 within 48 hours.
Quoting hivue (Reply 50):
We in 2014 tend to have an inflated opinion of our capabilities.

Furthermore, this is not the Gulfs of Mexico or Biscay, where the abnormal flight path would have been noticed much sooner, and SAR assets would have blanketed the area in short order.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: ultrapig
Posted 2014-03-09 07:51:15 and read 97542 times.

Is there any possible scenario where the plane has been commandeered and has been beenlanded (or crash landed on a runway not built for it)
in a remote area and we will hear from some of the passengers in the future?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2014-03-09 07:52:18 and read 97452 times.

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 44):
Considering the distance from Pattaya and Kuala Lumpur, it is some struggle to get Pattaya-KUL overland in one day, at least a 14-hour ride. If all folks entering Malaysia overland are filmed/photographed, it's not that hard to check whether these guys passed the only (?) Thai/Malaysian border entry post. if these guys flew in on different passports, the Malaysian they could only have hand luggage on themselves. If they used the same identities, at least Thai migration should have had bells ringing as I believe these passports had to be recorded as 'stolen' in their system. Besides, the two guys had to contact some transfer desk in KUL as they transited with two different bookings. Looks artificially too complex for a terrorist operation.

When I visited Malaysia (Penang) in 2008, we were strongly advised by the US State Dept. (and my brother in law whom we were visiting!) to avoid the area of the land border between Malaysia and Thailand, as it was quite dangerous and lawless. Not sure how and if things have changed since then...but I do recall seeing a few Thai vehicles driving around in Malaysia.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 07:54:57 and read 96407 times.

Quoting Alasdair1982 (Reply 53):
Sky News are reporting the same 'breaking news'.

Maybe it is "new" news then.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 52):
5 threads at +/-250 post = 1.250 posts, some short, some others very long .... I had a lot of free time this weekend and I was not even close to read a third of all the posts....

OK but I can also understand how annoying it is for those who have taken the time to discuss the various points only to be asked to do it all again. It doesn't half dilute the discussion.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CyberEntomology
Posted 2014-03-09 07:57:09 and read 96051 times.

Quoting ultrapig (Reply 59):
Quoting ultrapig (Reply 59):
Is there any possible scenario where the plane has been commandeered and has been beenlanded (or crash landed on a runway not built for it)
in a remote area and we will hear from some of the passengers in the future?

I postulated a theory like that in Part 4 (~200) of the thread. Something doesn't pass the smell test here. Lots of places that thing could have disappeared below radar and continued on somewhere (North Korea?)

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: N328KF
Posted 2014-03-09 07:57:47 and read 96084 times.

Quoting ultrapig (Reply 59):

Is there any possible scenario where the plane has been commandeered and has been beenlanded (or crash landed on a runway not built for it)
in a remote area and we will hear from some of the passengers in the future?

You saw that movie, too, huh?



In all seriousness, there's a lot of places such an aircraft could have gone, but as people have noted, where could you safely land a 777 that it would not be noticed?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Alasdair1982
Posted 2014-03-09 07:58:00 and read 96186 times.

The Vietnamese Navy think they have found a door from the aircraft, Reuters are reporting via Sky News.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 07:59:08 and read 95454 times.

Quoting na (Reply 55):
Quoting David L (Reply 42):... or it was determined that it had nothing to do with MH370.
They would have said that and not the opposite, dont you think?

If, as I said, the object is the "yellow object" reported earlier then they did say the opposite, that it was determined not to relate to MH370. If it turns out that this is a new object then, of course, that doesn't apply.

[Edited 2014-03-09 08:30:35 by SA7700]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2014-03-09 08:08:47 and read 92703 times.

Quoting GianiDC (Reply 56):
after reading many posts about how it is rather common that some crims or illegal immigrants travel with a stolen identity espacially in southeast asia and this interesting article about the passport black market in thailand, i personally think that the probability of a terroristic attack is rather low at the moment. surely this may change during the investigation.

Personally I think there are some drug dealers upset about the loss of their shipment (they probably don't care about the mules...).

Quoting ultrapig (Reply 59):
Is there any possible scenario where the plane has been commandeered and has been beenlanded (or crash landed on a runway not built for it)
in a remote area and we will hear from some of the passengers in the future?

No way. No place is South East Asia is not that remote. There are people literally everywhere. And mobile coverage is also good - better than many other parts of the world.

I think everyone is too complacent in their belief that it can not be an accident and must be terrorism. Just because the 777 did not have a loss of life due to a technical problem before, it does not mean the 777 can not be the cause. Even if this event is due to a 777 technical failure, the 777 is still much safer than anything else flying around. The track record of the 777 is exceptional and even if the cause is a technical problem, it is still exceptional. Statistically speaking, we are overdue for an accident whatever the cause.
In in my business where safety is critical, all data shows that the chance of a failure is directly proportional to the number of human interventions. The biggest factor in improving safety is reducing the number of people involved.

For me terrorism is a possibility, but it really ranks at the bottom of the list....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: AngMoh
Posted 2014-03-09 08:12:28 and read 92032 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 57):
When I visited Malaysia (Penang) in 2008, we were strongly advised by the US State Dept. (and my brother in law whom we were visiting!) to avoid the area of the land border between Malaysia and Thailand, as it was quite dangerous and lawless. Not sure how and if things have changed since then...but I do recall seeing a few Thai vehicles driving around in Malaysia.

That border is very safe compared with the US-Mexico border region...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-09 08:13:51 and read 91605 times.

Quoting poolkeeper (Reply 2):
Sorry for the long answer... maybe got too carried away

Maybe I misunderstand your post, but I honestly speaking don't see any relation with an airliner that disappeared over an ocean or sea.

Or are you suggesting that MH370 is still in the air somewhere? That would indeed be news.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: penguins
Posted 2014-03-09 08:14:33 and read 91236 times.

If, as some news outlets are reporting, the plane attempted to turn back, then why was no distress call or squawk made?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: ltbewr
Posted 2014-03-09 08:15:22 and read 91296 times.

As to the 2 passports in question and the alleged tickets connected to them, it is possible 2 people could be involved in transiting drugs, with either both carrying drugs, so if one is caught, some drugs still get through, or just one has the drugs and the other a dummy for cover.

I do hope we are getting closer to the location where this a/c ended up so recovery of the bodies as well as recovery of the CVR/FDR and major parts of the a/c to determine what happened to give us some closure. We all want immediate answers to end our speculations but more importantly, to determine what caused this loss, if a criminal act where action must be taken to reduce the risks on flights all over the world or if with the a/c, corrective actions can be made to prevent others of the same type of a similar fate.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: lijnden
Posted 2014-03-09 08:17:21 and read 90901 times.

Maybe the plane made a successfull water landing like the US Airways A320 and sank, leaving little to no traces.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: N328KF
Posted 2014-03-09 08:19:30 and read 90177 times.

Quoting lijnden (Reply 68):

Maybe the plane made a successfull water landing like the US Airways A320 and sank, leaving little to no traces.

Where are the people who surely then went out the exits?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 08:21:43 and read 89815 times.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 56):

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 45):
I am really astonished by the fact that they have still not found the aircraft, or even the crash site. Would think that we in 2014, we all our technology, should be able to find a downed 777 within 48 hours.
Quoting hivue (Reply 50):
We in 2014 tend to have an inflated opinion of our capabilities.

Furthermore, this is not the Gulfs of Mexico or Biscay, where the abnormal flight path would have been noticed much sooner, and SAR assets would have blanketed the area in short order.

While I don't know the exact specifics, I get the feeling that the Bay of Thailand is really not that different from the Gulfs of Mexico or Biscay when it comes to the SAR and ATC capabilities of the countries in the region. Singapore especially is an ultra-modern country and Malaysia and Thailand seem to be doing their level best to catch up.

Quoting Alasdair1982 (Reply 62):
The Vietnamese Navy think they have found a door from the aircraft, Reuters are reporting via Sky News.

Is this the same object as before? In that case no joy.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 61):
You saw that movie, too, huh?

The short story that started the whole thing ("Air Raid") was brilliant. The novel that expanded the concept was all right but not great. Still, not the finest work of one of my fave authors, John Varley.

But I digress.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 08:21:45 and read 89689 times.

Quoting lijnden (Reply 68):
Maybe the plane made a successfull water landing like the US Airways A320 and sank, leaving little to no traces.

In that case it's more likely they would have transmitted a Mayday.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-09 08:22:22 and read 89205 times.

Quoting lijnden (Reply 68):

At night? Not much chance.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CityhopperNL
Posted 2014-03-09 08:23:10 and read 89216 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 58):
Quoting Alasdair1982 (Reply 53):
Sky News are reporting the same 'breaking news'.

Maybe it is "new" news then.

Or perhaps not. The "breaking news" on these sorts of TV channels has been proven to be old news more than once, and not only these days, but I also remember this pattern from AF447. I think many of these channels actually source their information from a website such as this one. Hence the photo that was posted 5 hours ago here of the floating object is now appearing in the news. Rumours -> posted on the internet -> some aviation forum -> TV channel and newspapers pick up, I think that is the order - once something breaking happens, we will know it from somebody posting here on the forum long before they mention it on TV.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 08:24:10 and read 89065 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 70):
Is this the same object as before? In that case no joy.

So I didn't just imagine that the earlier object had been discounted. Thank you!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Miami
Posted 2014-03-09 08:24:56 and read 88871 times.

Quoting lijnden (Reply 68):
Maybe the plane made a successfull water landing like the US Airways A320 and sank, leaving little to no traces.

The plane could've sank. But I'm pretty sure the people on board were told in case of a water landing, to find the nearest exit and where to find a life jacket. Evacuation rafts would also deploy.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 08:26:02 and read 88761 times.

Quoting penguins (Reply 66):
If, as some news outlets are reporting, the plane attempted to turn back, then why was no distress call or squawk made?

This was discussed in the previous thread.

For example in the case of AF447, the pilots initially did not think they had a crisis, and by the time they realized they did, they were too busy to make a distress call. Or say they had a decompression. They're busy dealing with it and making a distress call is far down the list of priorities.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: stuyyz
Posted 2014-03-09 08:27:21 and read 88183 times.

Question about radar - If indeed the turnback and other plane movements were caught on radar, but nobody happened to be looking at the radar at that moment, is all radar tracking guaranteed to be recorded?

Second quick question - what is the current water temperature? Would any floating survivors be able to survive 48 hours in that water?

[Edited 2014-03-09 08:32:57 by SA7700]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Alasdair1982
Posted 2014-03-09 08:27:27 and read 88407 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 74):
So I didn't just imagine that the earlier object had been discounted. Thank you!

Well, they have apparently said it is too dark to confirm what they saw. So can't be the same floating object seen earlier.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 08:29:29 and read 87863 times.

It would be quite ironic if the passengers travelling under false identity were indeed drug mules as they were probably sweating blood all the time not to be detected in countries where they could end up facing the death penalty for being drug mules - only to loose their lives in an air crash while committing that crime....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: AF185
Posted 2014-03-09 08:30:03 and read 87735 times.

If a floating object from the plane was to be found without other surrounding debris, could this lead to the theory of an a/c disintegration at high altitude, in which case parts of the plane would be plunging kilometers apart and making it more difficult to spot by the SAR teams?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 08:30:56 and read 87315 times.

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 76):

Question about radar - If indeed the turnback and other plane movements were caught on radar, but nobody happened to be looking at the radar at that moment, is all radar tracking guaranteed to be recorded?

It is not guaranteed.

FlightRadar24 data seems to indicate that secondary radar did not show a turn back. However there are reports that primary radar did. Hopefully someone has the raw data from both sources.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: loladaisydukes
Posted 2014-03-09 08:31:36 and read 87980 times.

Now this is interesting... Guys please go to Google maps and search 8.695133, 106.590416
Please correct me if it is not what I think it is

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: jreuschl
Posted 2014-03-09 08:35:01 and read 86405 times.

Question.. If there is a door floating around, what would happen to the aircraft if somehow a door was taken off midflight and thrown out? Would an open door cause a crash?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2014-03-09 08:35:18 and read 86502 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 75):
The plane could've sank. But I'm pretty sure the people on board were told in case of a water landing, to find the nearest exit and where to find a life jacket. Evacuation rafts would also deploy.

If the airplane suffered a rapid decompression and was out of control there would be no time for niceties like asking people to put on life vest and locate exits. At that point human physiology takes over and you are in a state of shock. Let's hope these poor souls lost consciousness in 5-6 seconds and never realized what was coming. At the 2 hour point in a midnight flight all of the passengers would be asleep,flight attendants would be making routine aisle checks and it would have been a very quiet environment until about 2 hours prior to landing when the breakfast service would begin..

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 08:35:33 and read 86884 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 82):
Now this is interesting... Guys please go to Google maps and search 8.695133, 106.590416
Please correct me if it is not what I think it is

It is certainly a wide body jet... and probably a 777... BUT, the photos taken to "build" google maps can be several weeks old, the chance of that precise jet being MH370 are very very small.

Rgds.
G.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: 9MMPD
Posted 2014-03-09 08:35:34 and read 86690 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 82):
Now this is interesting... Guys please go to Google maps and search 8.695133, 106.590416
Please correct me if it is not what I think it is

Dude that's an A330! Highly doubt MRO is zipping the airways still in broad daylight, Next crazy theory please

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 08:35:39 and read 86447 times.

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 81):

Second quick question - what is the current water temperature? Would any floating survivors be able to survive 48 hours in that water?

We're talking 25-28 degrees C so it would be survivable. On the minus side, shark attacks are a real possibility in the region.

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 82):

Question.. If there is a door floating around, what would happen to the aircraft if somehow a door was taken off midflight and thrown out? Would an open door cause a crash?

The problem with this scenario is that you can't really do that. First off, 777s don't have "detachable" overwing exists. Secondly at cruise plug type doors (almost all airliner doors are plug type) are seated in their frames by literally tons of force. No way to get them loose from the plane.

Even if you somehow got a door off, this would cause a decompression but not a crash.




[Edited 2014-03-09 08:36:39]

[Edited 2014-03-09 08:39:36]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-09 08:36:06 and read 86464 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 82):
Please correct me if it is not what I think it is

An island. So? Are you suggesting they landed there? Obviously we would've known by now. SE Asia is not nearly as remote as people think it is. I can receive 3G in the jungles of Laos and Cambodia while in some parts of urban USA I can't.

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 81):
what is the current water temperature?

It'd be pretty warm, either way. Probably ~28C?

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: PanAmPaul
Posted 2014-03-09 08:37:03 and read 86208 times.

An image of the photo taken showing the debris (as white specks on the water) was supplied by the Vietnamese officials investigating the accident and was published here

Vietnam Officials Report Spotting Debris from Malaysia Flight

Quote:
Vietnamese officials said they had located debris in the Gulf of Thailand from the missing Malaysia Airlines plane that went missing with 239 people on board.

The Vietnamese ministry of information and communication reported on its website that the items were believed to be a composite inner door and a piece of the plane’s tail.....

.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 08:37:37 and read 85940 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 87):
An island. So?

I think he's talking about the jet leaving a contrail "over" the island.

 

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: deltaSEAalsaka
Posted 2014-03-09 08:37:39 and read 86018 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 81):

Yes that is a plane. But what is your point in it? If you looked closely around the entire map on google you are bound to find a few planes flying around.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-09 08:38:15 and read 86060 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 81):

Now this is interesting... Guys please go to Google maps and search 8.695133, 106.590416
Please correct me if it is not what I think it is

OK I saw it on satellite view. It's a 77W given the raked wingtips, looks like SQ.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: evomutant
Posted 2014-03-09 08:38:18 and read 86033 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 81):

That image was taken on the 14th February 2010 and shows something that pops up on Google Earth in hundreds of places around the world.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-09 08:39:05 and read 85397 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 81):
8.695133, 106.590416

ha, no google doenst refresh their maps so fast, and if u look closer u see it has winglets, so probaby and airbus 330.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: afterburner
Posted 2014-03-09 08:39:46 and read 85232 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 84):
BUT, the photos taken to "build" google maps can be several weeks old,

They can even be months or years old.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: loladaisydukes
Posted 2014-03-09 08:43:21 and read 84185 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 91):
Quoting deltaSEAalsaka (Reply 90):
Quoting evomutant (Reply 92):

Thank you for the correction. I was just a little apprehensive with all the stuff running around. In the end we all want to know whatever happened to the flight.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 08:43:37 and read 84390 times.

Please excuse me since this question could be, in some way, "politically incorrect", but, how large are in southeast Asia the Italian and Austrian comunities ? I mean, are people with the typical face and look of a chinese or a thai citizen carrying a passaport with a name like "Andrew Bodenhoeffer" or " Vittorio Baschelli "a common sight in the airports?

Rgds.
G.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Tod
Posted 2014-03-09 08:43:41 and read 84314 times.

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 82):
Question.. If there is a door floating around, what would happen to the aircraft if somehow a door was taken off midflight and thrown out? Would an open door cause a crash?

777 doors cannot be opened in flight and disconnecting them from aircraft would take hours and tools.

Not a possibility.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 08:43:48 and read 84419 times.

Pardon my ignorance, but with hundreds of civil and military satellites circling the earth, is there no way images soht from there can be used to locate the crash site?

As for the fake passengers, surely they would have been detected on arrival at AMS given the fact that the passports were stolen from Schengen zone holders and registered as such. So it is quite safe to assume that they never intended to travel to AMS - but with the European passport, they could not have gotten off the flight at PEK either...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: billreid
Posted 2014-03-09 08:45:12 and read 84148 times.

I have been following this with strong interest, because it disturbs me greatly.

First, the loss of family members so suddenly is beyond comprehension. I cannot imagine. I have great empathy for all involved.

I am disturbed with the numerous wrong reports. Aircraft landing in China, distress call to US base and other tid-bits. We need to understand that if we were waiting for loved ones at an airport or somewhere any level of false hope is evil at best.

Stolen passports - The authorities will look at this and determine who was on board, when/where they bought their tickets and true intent of those pax. I for one, believe if I was going to create a catastrophic event that I had no intention of surviving I would not need to use a stolen identity. Doesn't make sense unless I were to be denied entry otherwise. More likely drug trade or something criminal but not related to the disappearance.

Reports on oil/fuel slicks, things floating in the water - These reports should be verified for accuracy prior to releasing to media. It takes people down the wrong path if not verified.

Space debris, missiles, alien abductions, bad wing repair - Again it is extremely cold and disrespectful to even suggest/blog any of this might have occurred. While anything is plausible at this point let the experts try to determine what occurred. They know when the last communications occurred. They have the ACARS. They have the radar data. They have the MX records. They have the passenger list. They have so much more than anyone blogging does. I am sure they have a far better ideas than 98% of us.

Media - I heard one media source state on air that he was following the blog, and was putting together possibilities based on the blog. On that basis we should be extremely careful on what we add, it could end up being used by a less than expert aviation writer.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2014-03-09 08:45:54 and read 84199 times.

Debris near Tho Chu Island not from MH370: Department of Civil Aviation.

http://news.asiaone.com/news/relax/d...ot-mh370-department-civil-aviation

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2014-03-09 08:47:21 and read 83648 times.

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
Agent in KUL that did not spot the stolen passport is being questioned/charged.

I understand questioning but not being an expert on Malaysian law I'm puzzled why he'd be charged. Is there some evidence suggesting he did not run proper checks on the passports that would have revealed them to be stolen? That could be a valid reason to charge as it might indicate complicity with say illegal drug shipments. I am still scratching my head a little trying to figure out why in the 21st century with even a slow dialup modem you couldn't check on things like that when I'm pretty sure you are doing it with their credit cards. That said I could easily believe those tools weren't available to the agent in question.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 60):
You saw that movie, too, huh?

Hey I've got an idea, let's go to Canada and make a really horrible movie. It won't make a dime  

Seriously though even with 21st century technology I can see why finding this plane isn't that easy. Even if it had some version of GPS/Satellite tracking if there was a major electrical failure onboard you'd only get the last position before that happened. That could also explain why there was no radio call indicating trouble. I had an electrical system failure once drop me off radar in my small plane. It seriously worried a controller or two before I called in from the ground I was ok. I believe where I landed was 10-15 miles away from the point of failure. With a large jet that radius could be 10 times larger at least. Unfortunately though the passage of time in this case has led me to accept there isn't going to be a positive outcome here but I can see how it might take a few more days to confirm that.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Mark2fly1034
Posted 2014-03-09 08:51:35 and read 82516 times.

Just to stir the pot or add to it. It has been 48 hours now and they are only searching from where it should of crashed 40 minutes after departure. I am starting to believe they are looking in the wrong place for two reasons. As stated before a pilot said he was in contact with the pilot at 1:30am that would be a little more then an hour into the flight, second nothing has been found in such a shallow area of water. Also as stated above lots of boats would be in that area so why has no boat not in the area seen anything yet? Now what I think we might be looking at is a highjacking or a failure of a component of aircraft that still let them fly but was no able to get them back to land. If it was a highjacking this plane could be almost any where. If it was say the wingtip came off and made the plane uncontrollable again it could be way of the route of flight. The longer this search goes on the more i think they are the wrong spot. Just the way I see it.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: lugie
Posted 2014-03-09 08:52:54 and read 81728 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 97):
Please excuse me since this question could be, in some way, "politically incorrect", but, how large are in southeast Asia the Italian and Austrian comunities ? I mean, are people with the typical face and look of a chinese or a thai citizen carrying a passaport with a name like "Andrew Bodenhoeffer" or " Vittorio Baschelli "a common sight in the airports?

Rgds.
G.

Nothing impossible, just take a look at the former german vice chancellor, Philipp Rösler . Adopted vietnamese refugee with a completely german name. But I get your point of course, it is not that usual.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 08:54:55 and read 80971 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 97):

Please excuse me since this question could be, in some way, "politically incorrect", but, how large are in southeast Asia the Italian and Austrian comunities ? I mean, are people with the typical face and look of a chinese or a thai citizen carrying a passaport with a name like "Andrew Bodenhoeffer" or " Vittorio Baschelli "a common sight in the airports?

There are communities. Not huge. However in this case for all a check-in agent knows, an ethnic Chinese with an Austrian passport might have been adopted as an infant and have an Austrian name. If the person in question does not speak Chinese, or pretend not to, or speak a dialect unknown to the agent, that would just reinforce the cover.

East Asia is more ethnically diverse than Europe and a Malay check-in agent would not expect to know every ethnic wrinkle of his own region, let alone Asians in Europe.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 99):
Pardon my ignorance, but with hundreds of civil and military satellites circling the earth, is there no way images soht from there can be used to locate the crash site?

Maybe, but this assumes a crash site is visible. If the plane sank intact, for example, no orbital optics can help.

Quoting billreid (Reply 100):
Space debris, missiles, alien abductions, bad wing repair - Again it is extremely cold and disrespectful to even suggest/blog any of this might have occurred. While anything is plausible at this point let the experts try to determine what occurred. They know when the last communications occurred. They have the ACARS. They have the radar data. They have the MX records. They have the passenger list. They have so much more than anyone blogging does. I am sure they have a far better ideas than 98% of us.

We speculate here. If you don't want to read speculation, you are free not to view the threads.

Quoting billreid (Reply 100):
Media - I heard one media source state on air that he was following the blog, and was putting together possibilities based on the blog. On that basis we should be extremely careful on what we add, it could end up being used by a less than expert aviation writer.

We cannot be held responsible for what less than clever people "deduce" from our speculation.

Quoting billreid (Reply 100):
I am disturbed with the numerous wrong reports. Aircraft landing in China, distress call to US base and other tid-bits. We need to understand that if we were waiting for loved ones at an airport or somewhere any level of false hope is evil at best.

It is human nature. These speculators are not, as a rule, evil.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: denverdanny
Posted 2014-03-09 08:55:29 and read 80880 times.

I'm wondering how many more people will post about the news reporting something has been found by the navy, just awaiting confirmation.

And we already know about the two passports being stolen, ticketed together. Thank you!

And I don't find it unusual this day and age that it takes time to find a crashed craft. It's a large world. We still haven't found aircraft that disappeared in Lake Michigan and the Gulf of Mexico years ago.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 08:57:05 and read 80291 times.

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 103):
If it was say the wingtip came off and made the plane uncontrollable again it could be way of the route of flight.

I only hope no one in the media outlets industry read that sentence. If one of those "experts" says on his next report something like " wide body jets could became uncontrollable because a wingtip came off", the aviation industry will loose money the next 5 years.

Rgds.
G.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: specks159
Posted 2014-03-09 08:57:30 and read 80209 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 101):
Debris near Tho Chu Island not from MH370: Department of Civil Aviation.

http://news.asiaone.com/news/relax/d...ot-mh370-department-civil-aviation

I believe that is in reference to the yellow object that was discussed earlier. The article states the objects discounted were found by a Singaporean plane, which was the case with the yellow object. The recent somewhat door looking thing was found by a Vietnamese plane.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flightsimboy
Posted 2014-03-09 08:57:51 and read 80445 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 83):
At the 2 hour point in a midnight flight all of the passengers would be asleep,flight attendants would be making routine aisle checks and it would have been a very quiet environment

The incident occurred 40 mins into the flight, where if anything everybody would have been quite alert, perhaps a few who would have decided to sleep right away as it was past midnight Kuala Lumpur local time. As far as the cabin crew were concerned, they would have been busy in the galleys getting ready for the light snack service (if any on this flight). It would have hardly been a very quiet environment. If anything all those on board would have suffered some form of terror from the moment something went wrong (sudden drop in altitude, which is confirmed as happening) or perhaps nothing at all if it was a mid-air explosion.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 08:58:19 and read 79828 times.

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 103):
As stated before a pilot said he was in contact with the pilot at 1:30am

And that has been dismissed as untrue.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 08:59:32 and read 79752 times.

As far as I know, the passports in questions were biometric which cannot be altered like in old movies 30 years ago. How on earth could an Asian have passed for a Caucasian whose biometric data and picture is stored on the biometric passport in a way that is - to the best of my knowledge - almost impossible to forge?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: andy33
Posted 2014-03-09 08:59:33 and read 79809 times.

One standard technique for people intending to claim asylum or refugee status is to destroy their passports before approaching immigration in their destination country and claiming asylum. They will be detained while their claim is examined, if the request is rejected they'd ordinarily be deported back to the country they arrived from, but this can't be done if they have no travel documents at all, as they have no way of entering that country either. They can remain in limbo like this indefinitely, unless/until they admit what their actual nationality is, and that country issues temporary documentation so they can travel back. They may be in detention, but a Dutch detention centre is likely to be a lot more comfortable than a third world jail.
Alternatively they may have had further passports that would have been accepted in Amsterdam but ring alarm bells in Kuala Lumpur, so change passports en route.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-09 08:59:54 and read 79955 times.

As of now, there are two curious pieces of information related to this flight:

1. The plane turned from its flight path. This is a key piece of information right now until any further development.
2. The two stolen passport issue. I think this is less important than #1. This is more sensational.

The circumstances surrounding this flight looks more and more similar to AF 447 than anything in recent history.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SVJ77W
Posted 2014-03-09 08:59:55 and read 80006 times.

Malaysia launches terror probe over missing plane, debris may be spotted

http://rt.com/news/malaysia-plane-missing-crash-766/

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: anfromme
Posted 2014-03-09 09:00:02 and read 79747 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 99):
As for the fake passengers, surely they would have been detected on arrival at AMS given the fact that the passports were stolen from Schengen zone holders and registered as such. So it is quite safe to assume that they never intended to travel to AMS - but with the European passport, they could not have gotten off the flight at PEK either...

They could have, actually.
There's a 72-hour visa on arrival programme, chiefly to allow transit connections via Chinese airports. It's something not available to Malaysians, but it is available to people holding a passport from the Schengen area.
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/free-72hour/faq.htm

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: denverdanny
Posted 2014-03-09 09:00:41 and read 79467 times.

Quoting AF185 (Reply 79):
If a floating object from the plane was to be found without other surrounding debris, could this lead to the theory of an a/c disintegration at high altitude, in which case parts of the plane would be plunging kilometers apart and making it more difficult to spot by the SAR teams?

I think a lot of people, including myself, jumped at the bomb conclusion when large pieces started showing up of AF447. It wouldn't mean anything yet until analyzed in a more detailed fashion, instead of on face value.

[Edited 2014-03-09 09:02:16]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-09 09:01:00 and read 79285 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 97):
Please excuse me since this question could be, in some way, "politically incorrect", but, how large are in southeast Asia the Italian and Austrian comunities ? I mean, are people with the typical face and look of a chinese or a thai citizen carrying a passaport with a name like "Andrew Bodenhoeffer" or " Vittorio Baschelli "a common sight in the airports?

I am not sure what theory you have in mind but my understanding is that the two stolen passports belonged to an Austrian and Italian tourist visiting Thailand. Thus the photographs in these passports should be typical of Caucasian descent.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: infinit
Posted 2014-03-09 09:02:57 and read 78736 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 97):
Please excuse me since this question could be, in some way, "politically incorrect", but, how large are in southeast Asia the Italian and Austrian comunities ? I mean, are people with the typical face and look of a chinese or a thai citizen carrying a passaport with a name like "Andrew Bodenhoeffer" or " Vittorio Baschelli "a common sight in the airports?


This region is ethnicly diverse. Some ethnic Malay Malaysians could look Caucasian and many of the ethic Eurasian Malaysians too.

Reposting what I posted in Part 5
...Secondly, some have asked why some of the crew names sound 'Western' and some sound Chinese.. Malaysia and Singapore (the other country in the Malayan Peninsula) are ethnically diverse. Different from Japan in that regard for comparison. Malaysians an Singaporeans are largely ethnic Malay, Chinese, Indian, Eurasian and a huge number of ethnic minorities. Citizens from both countries could look like anything and have names that sound like anything. My dad who is Singaporean like me has medium-brown hair and green eyes.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-09 09:04:12 and read 78724 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 113):
The circumstances surrounding this flight looks more and more similar to AF 447 than anything in recent history.

I disagree. The weather was very different and the airline has not reported receiving a slew of malfunction reports from the plane.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 09:04:39 and read 78287 times.

Quoting lugie (Reply 104):
Nothing impossible, just take a look at the former german vice chancellor, Philipp Rösler . Adopted vietnamese refugee with a completely german name. But I get your point of course, it is not that usual.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 105):
East Asia is more ethnically diverse than Europe and a Malay check-in agent would not expect to know every ethnic wrinkle of his own region, let alone Asians in Europe.

Thanks for your inputs !!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 105):
We speculate here. If you don't want to read speculation, you are free not to view the threads.

Exactly !!! No one is forced with a gun pointing to the head to check this threads.... and I'm absoultelly sure the families of the passengers don't have the intention to read this threads right now.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 109):
The incident occurred 40 mins into the flight

I would add some minutes as margin of error ( i.e. an electrical failure affecting Comms and Transponder ), but certainly not 2 hours, the crew would do something like going to squawk 7600 before that time...

Rgds.
G.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 09:04:41 and read 78295 times.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 115):
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 99):
As for the fake passengers, surely they would have been detected on arrival at AMS given the fact that the passports were stolen from Schengen zone holders and registered as such. So it is quite safe to assume that they never intended to travel to AMS - but with the European passport, they could not have gotten off the flight at PEK either...

They could have, actually.
There's a 72-hour visa on arrival programme, chiefly to allow transit connections via Chinese airports. It's something not available to Malaysians, but it is available to people holding a passport from the Schengen area.
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/free-72hour/faq.htm

Will you get a transit via with a 5h55min connection?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: specks159
Posted 2014-03-09 09:04:59 and read 78667 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 81):

Now this is interesting... Guys please go to Google maps and search 8.695133, 106.590416
Please correct me if it is not what I think it is

Appears to be an A330 in flight. Identified by the winglet and the number of hydraulic fairings (4 on each wing as opposed to 3 for a 777).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2014-03-09 09:05:20 and read 78490 times.

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 103):
Just to stir the pot or add to it. It has been 48 hours now and they are only searching from where it should of crashed 40 minutes after departure. I am starting to believe they are looking in the wrong place for two reasons. As stated before a pilot said he was in contact with the pilot at 1:30am that would be a little more then an hour into the flight, second nothing has been found in such a shallow area of water. Also as stated above lots of boats would be in that area so why has no boat not in the area seen anything yet? Now what I think we might be looking at is a highjacking or a failure of a component of aircraft that still let them fly but was no able to get them back to land. If it was a highjacking this plane could be almost any where. If it was say the wingtip came off and made the plane uncontrollable again it could be way of the route of flight. The longer this search goes on the more i think they are the wrong spot. Just the way I see it.

Mark2fly1034, I'm not picking on you personally, but in this 6-part thread in under 2 days, there is way too much duplication, with people jumping in asking things that have been beaten to death in earlier posts. I thought it was a basic a.net behavioural thing to start reading at the beginning of the topic even if you enter late, and ask questions at the current thread end. Some of us monitoring this for the last 48 hours for REAL NEWS have to wade through all these lazy posts of those who wont start from the beginning!

Please, all, improve the community experience for the rest of us by doing so!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: denverdanny
Posted 2014-03-09 09:05:27 and read 78453 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 111):
As far as I know, the passports in questions were biometric which cannot be altered like in old movies 30 years ago. How on earth could an Asian have passed for a Caucasian whose biometric data and picture is stored on the biometric passport in a way that is - to the best of my knowledge - almost impossible to forge?

What I want to know, and maybe it can be answered by frequent travellers and even Asians here, are foreigners, specifically Westerners (from Europe) treated differently in security than say someone from Thailand or Indonesia or China? Are they trying to promote travel and commerce with the West by passing them through more quickly and not questioning deeply or thoroughly? Are they less suspicious of Westerners, or people having passports from the West?
Seems to me a difference here is the passports are Western. Are those more easy to come by in theft, since maybe the locals might have them less or hide them better?

[Edited 2014-03-09 09:06:47]

[Edited 2014-03-09 09:08:35]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: loladaisydukes
Posted 2014-03-09 09:10:39 and read 77271 times.

Quoting specks159 (Reply 124):

Thank you for the heads up!

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 122):

Usually some countries give transit visas to those who need one if the transit time or layover is 8 hours or more but I'm not sure with China if they follow the same thing.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: GianiDC
Posted 2014-03-09 09:10:52 and read 77352 times.

why should the two men be from asian decent? they could aswell be caucasians. i think if you get a stolen passport you should choose one which contains a photo of someone that looks at least a bit like you.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: tharanga
Posted 2014-03-09 09:11:15 and read 77446 times.

Too many assumptions being made about the stolen passports. Those guys could have been anything - not only drug smugglers, but smugglers of other kinds of goods. There are all sorts of criminals on this earth - not just terrorists and drug smugglers. Or they could just be trying to illegally immigrate to Europe. There are many possibilities, and while people may have fun speculating, nobody has any rational basis to make assumptions.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: mcogator
Posted 2014-03-09 09:12:18 and read 77126 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 14):
Just in - Luigi Maraldi, the owner of one of the stolen passports, appeared at a press conference in Phuket:

http://files.newsnetz.ch/bildlegende/141164/1736668_pic_970x641.jpg

Both stolen passports were registered with Interpol, but Malaysia didn't update the list of invalid travel documents. Apparently both passports haven't been used since 2012 and 2013, respectively (or they have been used in a way that wouldn't trigger suspicion with any government).

David

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this yet, but what about the two with the stolen passports being government agents of some sort? Remember in Dubai the Israeli Mossad agents using stolen/forged European and Australian passports to commit an assassination. Who better than Israel to know that Malaysia didn't update their invalid travel document list? I would think it's likely that Mossad has agents visiting Malaysia, as there are quite some many Arabs in Kuala Lumpur.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Aerosol
Posted 2014-03-09 09:12:48 and read 77613 times.

Quoting andy33 (Reply 112):
As far as I know, the passports in questions were biometric which cannot be altered like in old movies 30 years ago. How on earth could an Asian have passed for a Caucasian whose biometric data and picture is stored on the biometric passport in a way that is - to the best of my knowledge - almost impossible to forge?

You put a biometric passport in a microwave for a short time and voila you have a non biometric passport - which is not illlegal!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-09 09:13:13 and read 77561 times.

I'm sure they will find this plane within 1 week.

Could this be a sudden unexpected heavy turbulence that leads into in flight break up? can this be even possible?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-09 09:15:55 and read 76914 times.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 130):
I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this yet, but what about the two with the stolen passports being government agents of some sort? Remember in Dubai the Israeli Mossad agents using stolen/forged European and Australian passports to commit an assassination. Who better than Israel to know that Malaysia didn't update their invalid travel document list? I would think it's likely that Mossad has agents visiting Malaysia, as there are quite some many Arabs in Kuala Lumpur.

I think they were more sophistcated that that. The passports Israeli used were genuine based on stolen identities.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: andy33
Posted 2014-03-09 09:15:57 and read 76984 times.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 102):
I understand questioning but not being an expert on Malaysian law I'm puzzled why he'd be charged. Is there some evidence suggesting he did not run proper checks on the passports that would have revealed them to be stolen? That could be a valid reason to charge as it might indicate complicity with say illegal drug shipments. I am still scratching my head a little trying to figure out why in the 21st century with even a slow dialup modem you couldn't check on things like that when I'm pretty sure you are doing it with their credit cards. That said I could easily believe those tools weren't available to the agent in question.

The tickets were bought in Thailand, so the Malaysians can't be questioning or charging the sales agent. That leaves the check-in agent or the Malaysian border control agent who processed the passengers out of the country. Of the two the latter is much more likely to be expected to spot stolen passports, and whether they had entered Malaysia legally - holders of these passports wouldn't need visas.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 09:16:41 and read 76584 times.

On a positive note, I did a search about the weather forecasts in the Gulf of Thailand area, and all the forecasters are announcing good and clear weather, at least until past midday of March 13th. when some T-Storms could make the things more complex. Let's hope the forecast are correct and the SAR teams can find the aircraft before Thursday.

Rgds.
G.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cjg225
Posted 2014-03-09 09:18:26 and read 76106 times.

Quoting loladaisydukes (Reply 123):

It is not the plane as others mentioned. But still have high hopes!

I believe the proper term to use here is... *whooooooosh*

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-09 09:32:21 and read 72955 times.

it's kind a ridiculous that 2 stolen passports leads into a plane disaster. I am sure in this time of the world, at this moments, many out there travels with fake/stolen passport!

If this is a bomb terrorist action...then the question should be...how the h***the c4 bomb can get into the plane?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2014-03-09 09:35:44 and read 72085 times.

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):

I thought I would do a quick recap for people that haven't read through the previous posts and show the most topics of debate/speculation:

Thank you. Alas, not much new news.  

I feel for the families. Uncertainty is worse than the truth (whatever that happens to be, which is almost certainly tragic).

Lightsaber

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: mcogator
Posted 2014-03-09 09:39:05 and read 71025 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 133):
I think they were more sophistcated that that. The passports Israeli used were genuine based on stolen identities.

They used fake and stolen passports. Just a couple years ago there were terror threats issued in Thailand regarded Hezbollah operatives targeting Jewish/Israeli tourists there. I'm sure the region is chalk full of agents.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CPDC10-30
Posted 2014-03-09 09:39:39 and read 71171 times.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 126):
What I want to know, and maybe it can be answered by frequent travellers and even Asians here, are foreigners, specifically Westerners (from Europe) treated differently in security than say someone from Thailand or Indonesia or China?

Good question. I've traveled from Malaysian airports about 20 times in the past four years. In my experience, as a stereotypical 6 foot plus white male, I didn't feel that I received a less thorough screening than others. In Thailand however I have been waved through hotels / shopping malls whereas locals or Asians would have to go through metal detector / have bags x-rayed. Note that Malaysia is a much more secure society overall and that type of screening doesn't go on in hotels and malls

However I would say that the general vigilance and thoroughness of the screening in Malaysia is not as high as say, India. Bangalore particularly has very thorough screening. Many times I've been stopped and had to go for secondary screenings or asked questions - there's clearly no preference for Caucasians there. And rightly so. I remember I had a >100ml container of sunscreen that got through three layers of Malaysian security (BKI, KUL check in and KUL at the gate - secondary screening for Indian flights). However it was picked out straight away at BLR.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: threepoint
Posted 2014-03-09 09:44:46 and read 69636 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 105):
We speculate here. If you don't want to read speculation, you are free not to view the threads.

Sadly, many contributors here do tend to speculate far too much. Armed with a shred more than average knowledge about aviation, many of the wild-arsed guesses can display a veneer of credibility that can confuse the casual reader. We all understand that journalists with less than robust fact-checking prowess tend to troll sites such as this one in order to glean tidbits of information to add to a story. All too often, this info - based on speculative nonsense from people in their bedrooms around the world - appears in various media reports, serving only to further muddy an already murky situation.

We visit this site for accurate information (and to look at pretty pictures). If we want gossip and uneducated opinion, there are plenty of sources to which we can turn. It's fine to ask questions and pose theories here - and have them scrutinized by one's peers. But when we assert speculation (framing one's guesses as fact) while an investigation is in its infancy, we rapidly lose our personal credibility and that of this website. I find it unhelpful when a longtime member dismisses a call for responsibility by another contributor, and makes an aggressive challenge, as if this site were his own. I'll repeat what 'billreid' alluded to: we don't want to read any speculation. It might also mean that this thread would still be in Part 1...

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 105):
We cannot be held responsible for what less than clever people "deduce" from our speculation.

An outstanding example of deflection and ability to point blame any direction but towards oneself! If one wants to speculate, perhaps they could create or contribute to an aviation site that has less integrity.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: art
Posted 2014-03-09 09:48:29 and read 68698 times.

I hope that enough resources will have been assembled by daylight for evidence of the aircraft coming down to be found before night falls again. It will be no consolation to those connected to the passengers and crew but at least they will know that the worst has happened.

[Edited 2014-03-09 09:50:26]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: B2443
Posted 2014-03-09 09:50:35 and read 68208 times.

Quoting GianiDC (Reply 128):
why should the two men be from asian decent?

Precisely. Why couldn't be Caucasian looking?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CPDC10-30
Posted 2014-03-09 09:51:37 and read 68418 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 132):
Could this be a sudden unexpected heavy turbulence that leads into in flight break up? can this be even possible?

Airplanes have broken up in flight due to heavy turbulence before. However I'm not aware of any since then 1960s (please let me know if I'm forgetting any). There was BOAC 911 and Northwest Orient 705, Boeing 707 and 720s repsectivley. However the causes were mountain related turbulence and thunderstorm - neither of which would be a factor for MH370. I'm not aware of a jetliner ever breaking up because of clear air turbulence.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2014-03-09 09:53:43 and read 67843 times.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 141):
All too often, this info - based on speculative nonsense from people in their bedrooms around the world - appears in various media reports, serving only to further muddy an already murky situation.

The worst media outlets around the world will publish any rubish taken from any place. Serious information sources should have an editor in charge to filter the BS from all over the web and print only the official or respectable sources. As a consumer people has its own responsibilty to gather information from accurate sources. If I walk two blocks at any major city, I could find magazines and "Daily Anywhere" papers saying that the Prime Minister is an alien who came from Ganimedes. It is my responsibility to filter what I have available and select how good or bad are my sources.

So please stop the crying and whipping about the speculation. This is an aviation site, and we speculate about the causes from the moment of impact until the Official Final Report is available.

Rgds.

G.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: rising
Posted 2014-03-09 09:54:15 and read 67918 times.

According to RT.... Vietnamese crews have found a door from the airplane at sea.

http://rt.com/news/malaysia-plane-missing-crash-766/

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: threepoint
Posted 2014-03-09 09:55:11 and read 67485 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 137):
it's kind a ridiculous that 2 stolen passports leads into a plane disaster. I am sure in this time of the world, at this moments, many out there travels with fake/stolen passport!

If this is a bomb terrorist action...then the question should be...how the h***the c4 bomb can get into the plane?

First of all, we don't know that stolen passports led to this incident. Those suggestions have yet to be confirmed or discounted. Second of all, the myth of airline security is exactly that. While we expend much pomp and theatre on passenger and carry-on screening, it remains shockingly easy to place a harmful device on board an aircraft through several channels.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-09 09:58:55 and read 66705 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 97):

Please excuse me since this question could be, in some way, "politically incorrect", but, how large are in southeast Asia the Italian and Austrian comunities ? I mean, are people with the typical face and look of a chinese or a thai citizen carrying a passaport with a name like "Andrew Bodenhoeffer" or " Vittorio Baschelli "a common sight in the airports?

In case of Singapore, and Malaysia isn't all that different, finding a "Bodenhoeffer" or a similar name is rare indeed, although they do exist. Basically two groups:

- Locals of Indian descent who converted to Christianity during the colonial era. Since they obtained "generic" Christian names the number of names is imited to a handful, Typically; Thomas, Pereira, Hernandez, Gomez, Paul, ... Although ethnic Indians make up 5% of the population only a minority of them have Western names.

James Gomez

- Local descendants of mixed Asian/Caucasian parentage or Eurasians as they are called here. Although they have more variety in their names, I don't think they account for more than 0.5% of the population.

- Vernetta Lopez
- Jean Danker

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2014-03-09 10:02:47 and read 65822 times.

Quoting andy33 (Reply 134):
The tickets were bought in Thailand, so the Malaysians can't be questioning or charging the sales agent. That leaves the check-in agent or the Malaysian border control agent who processed the passengers out of the country. Of the two the latter is much more likely to be expected to spot stolen passports, and whether they had entered Malaysia legally - holders of these passports wouldn't need visas.


What is interesting about Malaysia is that they have one of the most liberal policies in the world regarding visitors' visas. Basically any Western/Middle Eastern country can enter the country Visa-free. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Malaysia.

So whether this is terrorism or something completely unrelated (like drug smuggling, refugees, migration...), they could probably have entered Malaysia from somewhere else on their own passport, get the plane tickets and passports once there (they don't even need to be in Thailand for that) and fly to Europe in the stolen EU passports.

[Edited 2014-03-09 10:06:07]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2014-03-09 10:05:08 and read 65432 times.

Some interesting information about Interpol's database of Stolen and Lost Travel Documents (SLTD), which was created in 2002:

"Last year passengers were able to board planes more than a billion times without having their passports screened against INTERPOL's databases."

"[Founded in 2002,] INTERPOL's database has grown from a few thousand passports and searches to more than 40 million entries and more than 800 million searches per year, averaging 60,000 hits. The US searches this database annually more [than] 250 million times; the UK more than 120 million times and the UAE more than 50 million times."

"Unfortunately, few member countries systematically search INTERPOL's databases to determine whether a passenger is using a stolen or lost travel document to board a plane."

source: http://www.interpol.int/News-and-media/News/2014/N2014-038

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 10:08:28 and read 64392 times.

Quoting Aerosol (Reply 131):

You put a biometric passport in a microwave for a short time and voila you have a non biometric passport - which is not illlegal!

Sure, but once you enter a Schengen country (like those two intended to do at least according to their tickets) it will be detected and certainly you will receive special attention by border control. If it was plain sailing, everybody criminal would just microwave his biometric pass...

Quoting threepoint (Reply 140):
Sadly, many contributors here do tend to speculate far too much. Armed with a shred more than average knowledge about aviation, many of the wild-arsed guesses can display a veneer of credibility that can confuse the casual reader. We all understand that journalists with less than robust fact-checking prowess tend to troll sites such as this one in order to glean tidbits of information to add to a story. All too often, this info - based on speculative nonsense from people in their bedrooms around the world - appears in various media reports, serving only to further muddy an already murky situation.

I have seen quite a lot of information apparently lifted from here by, just to name two, CNN and BBC, for example the information about the details of two tickets those with the fake identies were travelling on. All media outlets are running theories about a possible terrorist link, so I fail to see why it should not be permissible here.

Quoting B2443 (Reply 142):
Precisely. Why couldn't be Caucasian looking?

Because one of the theories entertained here was that the Austrian and Italian passports were used to escape profiling.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 10:10:25 and read 64254 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 111):

And why bother about the passport being biometric if the customs office doesn't regularly check the facial pattern of the traveler?

We have biometric passports since a few years (I got my non-biometric one in 2009) and not every country has caught up. If Malaysia doesn't even check the Interpol database... well...

Quoting mcogator (Reply 130):

In one of the previous threads I threw up the topic of secret agents, but in connection with passports. Again, using a stolen passport would ring a bell in any country that uses the Interpol databases.


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: DJM18
Posted 2014-03-09 10:10:52 and read 63927 times.

Question:

When in Transit through KUL does your carry on luggage get screened or are you effectively in an "international" part of the terminal where you can freely board a next international flight without any security screens?

In the US this does not exist, to the detriment of US carrier that lose passengers to other airlines. In other words, one has to first enter the US through customs/immigration and then go through all the TSA checks. This is why I usually can't make a less than 2 hour connection in MIA, EWR or IAH on my way to Europe. It is also why many people in Central/South America now prefer to connect through Bogota or Panama to Europe as opposed to having to go through immigration in the US.

Many thanks

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CrimsonNL
Posted 2014-03-09 10:12:09 and read 63581 times.

I don't understand all this commotion about a pair of stolen passports. There are plenty of cases of identity fraud, also in aviation. Not to mention credit card fraud. In Europe (for example) there are a lot of flights where your passport isn't even checked at all, so you can book yourself with any non existing identity you want and no one will find out. As long as all passengers are security checked, it does not matter who's passport you carry as technically you can't bring anything hazardous onto the aircraft.

Martijn

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: marosbts
Posted 2014-03-09 10:16:09 and read 62729 times.

All of you are speculating about the two people with stolen passports. However, there is one thing which is making the terrorist attack less plausible. No one has so far taken over responsibility for this attack. Terrorist groups will in most cases inform the media and take over responsability and claim it was them who made the attack almost immediately.

The fact that its more than 48 hours after the crash and noone has so far done so makes me think something else is behind this.

A major technical fault or a case simmilar to the LAM flight seem to be the only plausible IMHO.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SVJ77W
Posted 2014-03-09 10:18:29 and read 63210 times.

Reports coming in that one of the doors of MH370 has been spotted by Vietnamese crew.

http://rt.com/news/malaysia-plane-missing-crash-766/ Shows as Breaking News

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 10:19:09 and read 62763 times.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 148):
"Last year passengers were able to board planes more than a billion times without having their passports screened against INTERPOL's databases."

I think what is overlooked here is that while they might have been able to board undetected in Malaysia, the chances to get off the plane at AMS with a stolen pasport from a Schengen member state that is registered with Interpol were probably close to zero. Passports at AMS get scanned and most probably checked against a databse (every other day there are reports in the media how someone with a search warrant etc. was arrested when trying to pass border controls). If you are a drug mule, the most stupid thing you can probably do is to travel with a stolen passport and trying to enter the country from which the stolen passport originates ("Schengen" in our case). So it seems more than likely that those two gentlemen never intended to get off the plane in AMS. Which leads to the question if they intended to get off at PEK because as EU nationals they could - in theory - enter China on a 72h visa. Problem: They only had a 5h55min connection according to their ticket - so how likely is it that they would have gotten a transit visa with such a ticket? This is an honest question - I simply don't know.

If the booked ticket means that it is very unlikely that they were able to obtain a transit visa, it would suggest that they did not intend to get off at PEK either, using the transit visa. Then the only plausible theory to me appears to be that they did not intend to deplane in the old-fashioned way either at PEK or AMS... - unless they were idiots who were unaware that they would get arrested on arrival at AMS because of the use of stolen passports. The only explanation I can see is that they were asylum seekers who needed an EU passport to get on the plane to the EU visa-free. However, as their biometric passports identified them as caucasians it does not seem very plausible that caucasians tried to sneak into the EU from Asia on stolen passports to ask for asylum....

[Edited 2014-03-09 10:34:21]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: deltaSEAalsaka
Posted 2014-03-09 10:19:25 and read 62824 times.

Quoting marosbts (Reply 151):
No one has so far taken over responsibility for this attack.

It has been stated many times before, in the 1000+ posts, that a group does not always claim an attack. Look at 9/11 for an example.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: peterinlisbon
Posted 2014-03-09 10:22:15 and read 62042 times.

Just another possibility - perhaps they are looking in the wrong place. Everyone is assuming that the plane crashed at whatever moment contact was lost, and so that's the place where they are looking - where the plane was 40m-1h30m into its flight. But what if the plane was hijacked and they switched off the radios and the transponders. The plane could have headed in any direction and flown for several more hours before crashing into the sea somewhere else completely. All we know is that contact was lost at xx time. Whether the plane crashed at this time or continued flying we don't know.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-09 10:23:49 and read 61955 times.

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 150):
I don't understand all this commotion about a pair of stolen passports. There are plenty of cases of identity fraud, also in aviation. Not to mention credit card fraud. In Europe (for example) there are a lot of flights where your passport isn't even checked at all, so you can book yourself with any non existing identity you want and no one will find out.

That's true. I've entered the EU multiple times without a stamp and I am definitely not the only one.

But this is a public forum and speculation is therefore inevitable and I mean no disrespect to the victims.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 10:25:59 and read 61492 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 156):
That's true. I've entered the EU multiple times without a stamp and I am definitely not the only one.

I never get stamped when entering the EU. That does not mean that my passport does not get scanned. Or what are they doing when they place your passport under those little black boxes and wait for a couple of seconds?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-09 10:27:39 and read 61179 times.

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 150):
I don't understand all this commotion about a pair of stolen passports. There are plenty of cases of identity fraud, also in aviation. Not to mention credit card fraud. In Europe (for example) there are a lot of flights where your passport isn't even checked at all, so you can book yourself with any non existing identity you want and no one will find out. As long as all passengers are security checked, it does not matter who's passport you carry as technically you can't bring anything hazardous onto the aircraft.

Exactly!!! At last someone made this point. Although traveling on stolen passports or documents is a criminal activity, it nonetheless does not supersede in importance the issue of security check at the airport for passengers and baggage. As far as passenger safety is concerned even if two or more people board an aircraft with falsified documents, they and their checked in and carry on baggage MUST be screened successfully. Meaning the security check of passengers and baggage MUST be reliable and successful. You can always deal with the aspect of document fraud following law enforcement protocol as long as the person does not have anything suspicious on person or in their luggage.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: btfarrwm
Posted 2014-03-09 10:33:02 and read 59851 times.

AAExPlat...

I would think "Issuing agent: 35306611" has already been visited by the authorities, or will be visited very soon. Unless this was an online reservation...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flightsimboy
Posted 2014-03-09 10:33:20 and read 59767 times.

I believe it's now exactly 48 hours since it was lost. Prayers and thoughts continue for the families and all those involved with MH 370.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: neutrino
Posted 2014-03-09 10:35:11 and read 59416 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 56):
When I visited Malaysia (Penang) in 2008, we were strongly advised by the US State Dept. (and my brother in law whom we were visiting!) to avoid the area of the land border between Malaysia and Thailand, as it was quite dangerous and lawless. Not sure how and if things have changed since then...but I do recall seeing a few Thai vehicles driving around in Malaysia.

Well, I did that border run multiple times a year in the seventies through to the nineties. Forty years ago, it was as close to a no-man's land as you can get and gradually, I have witnessed its steady development to the bustling area it has become from about two decades ago. Even back then in the so-called lawless days, it was still very safe apart for the occasional holdups. Rest assured that the noughties are even more so (yes, I still traverse that area once in a few years between the nineties and now). You have been wrongly advised by the un-informed, the ill-informed and the mis-informed.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 63):
That border is very safe compared with the US-Mexico border region...

Like our friend KELPkid above, I was also strongly advised and discouraged by my San Diego acquaintances when I visited them in (coincidentally) 2008, from carrying my intention to cross the border on foot to Tijuana to spend the night there. Guess what? I did go ahead anyway. But then again, it was only one single trip and someone up there might have been looking out for me.  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-09 10:36:53 and read 58918 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 157):
I never get stamped when entering the EU. That does not mean that my passport does not get scanned.

Probably. But I remember from a A.net thread about a year ago that this EU computer system has a lot of holes in it. The poster explaining the holes in the system wasn't just anybody but an airport immigration officer.

In fact I made the same remark as you and he (or she) explained in great detail why this scanning did not work.

[Edited 2014-03-09 10:40:01]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2014-03-09 10:38:16 and read 58997 times.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 140):
We visit this site for accurate information (and to look at pretty pictures). If we want gossip and uneducated opinion, there are plenty of sources to which we can turn. It's fine to ask questions and pose theories here - and have them scrutinized by one's peers. But when we assert speculation (framing one's guesses as fact) while an investigation is in its infancy, we rapidly lose our personal credibility and that of this website. I find it unhelpful when a longtime member dismisses a call for responsibility by another contributor, and makes an aggressive challenge, as if this site were his own. I'll repeat what 'billreid' alluded to: we don't want to read any speculation. It might also mean that this thread would still be in Part 1...

     

I already posted twice in this set of threads asking for more or less the same thing - your wording is perhaps better then mine

I think that this thread is running so fast, that few are bothering to re-enter where they last left, and too many enter at the last thread for the first time, so there is too much avoidable repetition. My major bugbear is the endless/mindless speculation at all tangents, in the absence of actual hard facts! Too many of them so far fetched even Hollywood wouldn't!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2014-03-09 10:39:58 and read 58600 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 153):
If the booked ticket means that it is very unlikely that they were able to obtain a transit visa, it would suggest that they did not intend to get off at PEK either, using the transit visa. Then the only plausible theory to me appears to be that they did not intend to deplane in the old-fashioned way either at PEK or AMS... - unless they were idiots who were unaware that they would get arrested on arrival at AMS because of the use of stolen passports.

It has been stated here before. They could be illegal immigrants or more likely refugees (a Syrian could pretend to be an Italian in Malaysia or China with no major issue).

Completely off-topic:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2...-syrian-refugees-sneak-into-europe

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-09 10:40:35 and read 58209 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 153):

am i mistaken in saying that the two stolen passport passengers were booked on separate flights to Amsterdam from PEK?

if that's the case... Is there a chance this was a botched attack? As in, the target was actually those two flights?

or have i read those tickets completely incorrectly?

this of course, going down the terrorist path, which may not actually be the case...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-09 10:42:21 and read 57963 times.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 165):
am i mistaken in saying that the two stolen passport passengers were booked on separate flights to Amsterdam from PEK?

Both were booked on the same KLM flight to AMS. From there one was going to CPH and the other to FRA.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 10:43:37 and read 57889 times.

Pardon me, but how likely is it that a Syrian refugee travels to Thailand, buys a stolen EU passport, buys a ticket KUL-PEK-AMS, crosses the land border into Malaysia and gets on the plane in KUL to get access to the EU?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: andy33
Posted 2014-03-09 10:44:18 and read 57518 times.

Quoting btfarrwm (Reply 159):

I would think "Issuing agent: 35306611" has already been visited by the authorities, or will be visited very soon. Unless this was an online reservation...

One thread back the issuing agent was identified as a travel agency in Pattaya, Thailand. Of course the Thai authorities are probably visiting them, but the Malaysians have no jurisdiction.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: UALWN
Posted 2014-03-09 10:44:39 and read 57547 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 103):
However in this case for all a check-in agent knows, an ethnic Chinese with an Austrian passport might have been adopted as an infant and have an Austrian name.

If an ethnic Chinese wants to get on a flight with a fake identity in order to hijack or bomb out the plane, he will probably be smart enough to acquire a fake Chinese passport, rather than steal an Austrian passport and pretend to be an adopted Chinese. Now if the goal is to get to Europe and work there, the Austrian passport will of course be more helpful than the Chinese one.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-09 10:47:54 and read 56974 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 166):

thanks for that.. I thought the departure times were different. I only mentioned this because it would, in that respect, have been similar to the London 7/7 attacks where the group travelled to Luton together. Clearly not in any case!

[Edited 2014-03-09 10:48:51]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SASDC8
Posted 2014-03-09 10:48:47 and read 56641 times.

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 149):
When in Transit through KUL does your carry on luggage get screened or are you effectively in an "international" part of the terminal where you can freely board a next international flight without any security screens?

In KUL you have screening of bags at the gate, and if in transit you will have to go threw immigration and then baggage screening at the gate.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 10:49:00 and read 56645 times.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 169):
Now if the goal is to get to Europe and work there, the Austrian passport will of course be more helpful than the Chinese one.

Not sure - how could an ethnic Chinese pass for an Austrian caucasian whose biometric data and picture is in the stolen passport said Chinese wants to use to get to Europe? In such a scenario, it would certainly be smarter to use a forged rather than a stolen passport that has the right picture and data - alas, in times of biometric passports, this is not exactly easy to achieve.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: UALWN
Posted 2014-03-09 10:51:26 and read 56265 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 157):
Or what are they doing when they place your passport under those little black boxes and wait for a couple of seconds?

They don't do alway that. By no means. I travel to the US and back 6 or 7 times per year. I typically enter Schengen in either FRA or MUC. I would say that 50% of the time they just have a look at my (Spanish) passport, then at my face, and then they hand my passport back to me. That's it. The other 50% of the times they might scan the passport.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: airbazar
Posted 2014-03-09 10:52:15 and read 55957 times.

Quoting Miami (Reply 73):
The plane could've sank. But I'm pretty sure the people on board were told in case of a water landing, to find the nearest exit and where to find a life jacket. Evacuation rafts would also deploy.

It's highly unlikely that the plane would have made a "safe" landing given that it was the middle of the night. To me and given that we haven't found anything debris, it's far more likely that it did land, broke appart somewhat, and sank to the bottom with all its accupants still inside.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: penguins
Posted 2014-03-09 10:53:15 and read 55886 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 167):
Pardon me, but how likely is it that a Syrian refugee travels to Thailand, buys a stolen EU passport, buys a ticket KUL-PEK-AMS, crosses the land border into Malaysia and gets on the plane in KUL to get access to the EU?

Very improbable. You have to remember that they are a refugee. How are they going to get to Thailand? How will they afford the airfare to the EU? Won't alarm bells ring at EU Passport Control if a stolen passport is used? There are much easier ways to sneak into the EU. Why go to Thailand anyway. Why not Lebanon or someplace else that has stolen passports?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: UALWN
Posted 2014-03-09 10:54:37 and read 55537 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 172):
how could an ethnic Chinese pass for an Austrian caucasian whose biometric data and picture is in the stolen passport said Chinese wants to use to get to Europe?

The same way said ethnic Chinese managed to get in the KUL-PEK plane using said passport? If it's possible in KUL, it's possible in AMS. If you claim it's not possible in AMS, then it shouldn't have been possible in KUL either.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: KFAY
Posted 2014-03-09 10:54:56 and read 56123 times.

I don't wish to make any accusations or impugn anyone's character, but as long as we are speculating about possible causes I believe the possibility of a suicide by one of the pilots has to be considered. A very tough possibility to think of, but it would make sense-one pilot exits to use the restroom, the second pilot locks the door and pushes the nose down. Would explain the lack of distress call, and if the aircraft hit the water nose-down at a high rate of speed, it could also explain the lack of debris thus far.

Of course, this is just one of many endless possibilities.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-09 11:00:31 and read 54829 times.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 176):
If you claim it's not possible in AMS, then it shouldn't have been possible in KUL either.

Common sense suggests that it is way more likely to be detected when using a stolen Schengen passport registered as such if you pass the Schengen border (AMS) than if you pass the Malaysian border (KUL).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Vimanav
Posted 2014-03-09 11:03:00 and read 54496 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Much as I find it rather ridiculous the Flight 714 to Sydney scenario has a certain appeal to it.

I wonder if Laszlo Carriedas was on board MH370. But thank you for reminding me of childhood even though we are on a very sombre topic.

Quoting Coal (Reply 90):
OK I saw it on satellite view. It's a 77W given the raked wingtips, looks like SQ.

Winglets and flap track fairings clearly make it an A330. An A330-300 to be more precise given its length being greater than its span.

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 140):
I'm not aware of a jetliner ever breaking up because of clear air turbulence.

G-APFE (BOAC 911) did precisely that.

With every passing hour I'm more than convinced that 9M-MRO isnt where they are looking for it...

brgds Vimanav

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-09 11:03:48 and read 54493 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 167):

Pardon me, but how likely is it that a Syrian refugee travels to Thailand, buys a stolen EU passport, buys a ticket KUL-PEK-AMS, crosses the land border into Malaysia and gets on the plane in KUL to get access to the EU?

How likely is it for a pilot to hijack a plane and gamble with their lives and try to get an asylum in the West? Not to mention the idiot could just flee from Rome and get a train to Zuerich...

Despeare people do desperate things.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cjg225
Posted 2014-03-09 11:05:50 and read 54046 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 174):

It's highly unlikely that the plane would have made a "safe" landing given that it was the middle of the night. To me and given that we haven't found anything debris, it's far more likely that it did land, broke appart somewhat, and sank to the bottom with all its accupants still inside.

I agree. Would be a very small debris field, likely. A mid-air breakup would leave quite a sizeable debris field, and likely have many large parts floating around. I know some here have been saying a mid-air breakup would make the debris field so spaced out that it would be harder to find, but... a space-out debris field gives you many more opportunities to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING... and after 2 days, we have a single instance of something that could be, may be, something from a plane, but no way of confirming it for another 10 hours or so, at least, assuming a boat can find its way to the piece.

Quoting KFAY (Reply 177):
I don't wish to make any accusations or impugn anyone's character, but as long as we are speculating about possible causes I believe the possibility of a suicide by one of the pilots has to be considered. A very tough possibility to think of, but it would make sense-one pilot exits to use the restroom, the second pilot locks the door and pushes the nose down. Would explain the lack of distress call, and if the aircraft hit the water nose-down at a high rate of speed, it could also explain the lack of debris thus far.

Of course, this is just one of many endless possibilities.

I think that is a scenario that has to be seriously considered, given the progress of the search so far. It would lead to a very localized debris field. Now, I would think that in such a situation there could be some very large pieces that would break off and float with a large, flat side facing upwards, such as pieces of the wing or vertical stabilizer. No such pieces have been seen, but maybe they're out there.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CyberEntomology
Posted 2014-03-09 11:06:42 and read 54034 times.

Quoting penguins (Reply 175):
It's highly unlikely that the plane would have made a "safe" landing given that it was the middle of the night. To me and given that we haven't found anything debris, it's far more likely that it did land, broke appart somewhat, and sank to the bottom with all its accupants still inside.

Even so, It should be relatively easy to find the wreckage - most of the Gulf of Thailand is shallow enough (60'-150', and a few spots as deep as 200') that if you were to stick a 777 into it vertically (or sideways, the 777 is roughly 200 feet wide by 200 feet long), large bits would stick out. One lying on the bottom should get picked up by a P-3's submarine detection gear with very little difficulty. Hell, the tail on that thing is 60 feet tall. This is not a small airplane by any stretch.

[Edited 2014-03-09 11:08:41]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: MesaFlyGuy
Posted 2014-03-09 11:08:16 and read 53767 times.

So apparently, according to the woman on CNN, the Air France crash was flight 446, operated by an a340.  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-09 11:09:01 and read 53217 times.

I, at this point, do not believe it was terrorism. I think if it was, the cabin crew would have noticed something suspicious and/or reported something to the cockpit crew. In addition, I think the ETL would have gone off if it was terrorism due to the nature of the blast. I am no expert, though, and could be very wrong on that point. I would also have to imagine that there would have been enough time to squawk 7700.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2014-03-09 11:09:28 and read 53139 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 167):
Pardon me, but how likely is it that a Syrian refugee travels to Thailand, buys a stolen EU passport, buys a ticket KUL-PEK-AMS, crosses the land border into Malaysia and gets on the plane in KUL to get access to the EU?

This is getting completely off-topic and hypothetical (which I somehow regret because it is certainly not the reason for this thread), but it is not that complicated.

Malaysia is one of the very few countries in the world where a Syrian can travel to Visa-free. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Syrian_citizens . Coincidentally, Thailand next door is the probably largest counterfeit passport market in the world, as it has been stated here before.

A Syrian citizen (and there are many of them working and living in Lebanon or the Gulf, so it wouldn't blink an eye a Syrian visiting Malaysia on holiday or business) could book a return flight to KUL from AMM or BEY (via DXB, AUH, DOH...). No questions in KUL as there is a return flight home and he can enter Visa free. Once in KUL and he could get the stolen modified passport, previously smuggled from Thailand by someone else, with a Malaysian Entry Stamp (easy to counterfeit). Someone else could have booked the ticket in Thailand, send the booking reference... and he is ready to fly to Europe.

Quoting penguins (Reply 175):
Won't alarm bells ring at EU Passport Control if a stolen passport is used? There are much easier ways to sneak into the EU. Why go to Thailand anyway. Why not Lebanon or someplace else that has stolen passports?

Again, continuing this off-topic... if you are refugee... you just want to get to Europe. You are not going to be deported to your country under a civil war. Thailand has a thriving passport black market, Malaysia is easy to get to visa-wise... and it is probably less suspicious to fly via PEK than directly from BEY. Some of those people spend dozens of thousands of dollars and risk their lives in a boat to reach Europe... so certainly fly via KUL and PEK is a minor issue.

End of off-topic for me...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-09 11:11:02 and read 52829 times.

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 182):
Even so, It should be relatively easy to find the wreckage

Do you realize how tiny a 777 is compared to the Gulf of Thailand?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: 747megatop
Posted 2014-03-09 11:13:33 and read 52723 times.

After AF-447 and now MH-370 is there any plans by the manufacturers to introduce technology to have aircrafts automatically transmit short text messages on a continous basis (let's say every minute) that contain location, altitude and speed to the Airline's base? In this modern age with so much technology available a plane should not just go missing.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Aesma
Posted 2014-03-09 11:14:03 and read 52061 times.

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
I thought I would do a quick recap for people that haven't read through the previous posts and show the most topics of debate/speculation:

- The flight has supposedly gone down 40 mins into the flight rather than 2 hours in as previously reported. 2 hours is when Malaysia was informed of the plane going missing.

- Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, USA, Philippines (and maybe China) are currently helping in the search effort.

- The sea is only ~60m/100 ft deep where it has supposedly crashed.

- 2 passengers were travelling with stolen passports and have purchased a ticket simultaneously as their E-ticket numbers were only one digit apart. They were flying KUL-PEK-AMS-CPH.

- The passengers who have had their passports stolen said they were taken in Thailand over the last two years and they were supposedly older passports with no chip - simply speculation that part.

- One Russian was stopped in KUL for using a stolen passport and was not allowed to board.

- An oil slick has been spotted just off Vietnam but this has yet to be confined as a link to the flight.

- Agent in KUL that did not spot the stolen passport is being questioned/charged.

- SAR has spotted some objects in the sea which could be "Yellow Lifejackets" but this has recently been dismissed.

This of course is not everything that has been discussed but I thought I would help some catch up rather than read through the 1500+ posts. Also it might help end repeat questions.

Thanks !

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cjg225
Posted 2014-03-09 11:15:44 and read 52265 times.

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 182):
Even so, It should be relatively easy to find the wreckage - most of the Gulf of Thailand is shallow enough (60'-150', and a few spots as deep as 200') that if you were to stick a 777 into it vertically (or sideways, the 777 is roughly 200 feet wide by 200 feet long), large bits would stick out. One lying on the bottom should get picked up by a P-3's submarine detection gear with very little difficulty.

So, couple things to consider.

I asked about the clarity of the water there yesterday and a few posters said it wasn't particularly clear water. Also, depending on the depth, a 777 resting on its belly or on its top might not be that close to the surface, especially if part of the tail breaks off. What is the diameter of the fuselage? 20 feet? Not even 10 meters. That could still be 40+ meters of water above it, and if the water isn't that clear, might not be able to see anything...

Second, I forwarded that the P-3C we were sending could be using its MAD array to locate the plane. A few posters replied that there might not be enough ferro metallic metal in the plane to get a reasonable hit on a MAD array, though it's possible. I think you have to try any option at this point. The other problem with a MAD array, though, is that even if it gets a hit, it tells you nothing about the object. You still need to send someone out there to look at it.

I posted on another forum a bit ago, though, that I wonder if you do get a hit on the MAD array whether you could drop a passive sonobouy and listen for the sonic emission from the location transmitter. Might be of some help.

I am now thinking that the P-3C will be more used for higher-altitude visual scan than low-altitude passes with the MAD array.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-09 11:19:33 and read 51361 times.

Quoting KFAY (Reply 177):

Indeed, due to recent events (the LAM plane & Ethiopian hijack) this came into my mind when I first read about this accident...

Though based on things I've seen so far everything would point out that this plane was flown by very experienced and well respected crew. The captain even had his own 777 home flight simulator & RC planes, it seems like he clearly loved his job and aviation in general.

I don't feel this would be another case like LAM / Egypt Air crash, but of course there's no way to know until the black boxes are found...

Probably such a high speed impact could be as well caused by a structural failure of some kind, one that disables / seriously damages pilot's ability to control the aircraft, yet doesn't break the fuselage apart.

[Edited 2014-03-09 11:22:48]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cjg225
Posted 2014-03-09 11:20:24 and read 51002 times.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 183):
So apparently, according to the woman on CNN, the Air France crash was flight 446, operated by an a340

Honestly, it's 1 number off. These people don't live and breath the topics they report on. They are just that; reporters. They convey information to a broad audience. She was probably reading from a teleprompter, anyway, so blame the guy or gal programming the teleprompter. Six and 7 are right next to each other on a keyboard (well, not if you use the num pad). Easy mistake to make.

Same with the 330 v.s. 340.

It's more than likely both were the result of a teleprompter typo.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CPDC10-30
Posted 2014-03-09 11:20:58 and read 51003 times.

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 182):
One lying on the bottom should get picked up by a P-3's submarine detection gear with very little difficulty.

I hope so - but remember, submarines hulls (with the exception of a couple Soviet models) are made of steel. I'm not sure how effective the MAD booms will be at picking up non-ferrous metals.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: 747megatop
Posted 2014-03-09 11:22:50 and read 50540 times.

Quoting hivue (Reply 186):
Do you realize how tiny a 777 is compared to the Gulf of Thailand?

But shouldn't the emergency locator beacon help narrrow it down? That is the most puzzling aspect. Why aren't any distress signals being picked up?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: TreeHillRavens
Posted 2014-03-09 11:23:40 and read 50519 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 148):

We have biometric passports since a few years (I got my non-biometric one in 2009) and not every country has caught up. If Malaysia doesn't even check the Interpol database... well...

And we have biometric passport since 1998. No joke.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: hivue
Posted 2014-03-09 11:28:03 and read 49752 times.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 193):
Why aren't any distress signals being picked up?

Probably because either (a) no one is in range to receive a signal or (b) none is being transmitted by the aircraft.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: tharanga
Posted 2014-03-09 11:28:46 and read 49456 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 141):

So please stop the crying and whipping about the speculation. This is an aviation site, and we speculate about the causes from the moment of impact until the Official Final Report is available.

I disagree. I come here to find the latest information, as well as educated discussion by knowledgeable people. When there is so much noise, it is hard to find that signal.

Even when nobody knows all the facts of the case, even while everybody is guessing, I can still learn useful things from people like Mandala. But too much of the discussion isn't as useful as that.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SLCPilot
Posted 2014-03-09 11:31:11 and read 49608 times.

1500 posts, and I'm truly amazed NOBODY has suggested, well, Airport 1977.

If anybody wants to come up with 1500 reasons why this isn't the case, go ahead.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cuban8
Posted 2014-03-09 11:32:59 and read 49245 times.

I think most evidences so far points into the direction of an in-flight explosion of some kind (not necessarily caused by an unlawful act). I do agree with earlier posters that the lack of debris found so far points against this assumption; but the fact that the ELT hasn't sent any transmissions in addition to losing the aircraft from the radar in a very short period of time indicates to me that something happened in flight and very fast.

I don't see any reason for anyone to turn off the transponder regardless of the intention being suicide or hi-jack.

I don't see the airplane breaking up for any kind of weather condition(s).

I don't see any "common" malfunction(s) which would not give the pilots enough time to send a distress call.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: hh65man
Posted 2014-03-09 11:35:26 and read 48353 times.

Wow, woke this morning to see the complete speculation and opinion carrying on. I am a bit surprised the sight moderators have let it carry on for so long. I love reading on this forum and keeping up with all the latest news events, BUT jeez honestly enough air has been expended to float a battleship......

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: MesaFlyGuy
Posted 2014-03-09 11:36:59 and read 47941 times.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 191):

Honestly, it's 1 number off. These people don't live and breath the topics they report on. They are just that; reporters. They convey information to a broad audience. She was probably reading from a teleprompter, anyway, so blame the guy or gal programming the teleprompter. Six and 7 are right next to each other on a keyboard (well, not if you use the num pad). Easy mistake to make.

I feel like, if you're going to get on CNN and do this reporting, you should know about the things on which you are to report. Even if it is one number off. Sorry, that's just my opinion.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: stuyyz
Posted 2014-03-09 11:37:27 and read 48089 times.

Another crazy conjecture - what's the heading/bearing from the plane's last known location to Mecca? Is it 333 degrees, the last reported heading? Is there any logic to the notion that if a hypothetical terrorist took control of the plane, turned it towards Mecca, turned off all comms, and then ditched it. I know, crazy, .... just another thought.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CyberEntomology
Posted 2014-03-09 11:37:48 and read 48585 times.

Quoting hivue (Reply 186):
Do you realize how tiny a 777 is compared to the Gulf of Thailand?

Horizontally, tiny. Vertically, not tiny. Still well within the realm of being easy to locate with a decent ASW crew.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cjg225
Posted 2014-03-09 11:37:53 and read 48682 times.

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 198):

I don't see any reason for anyone to turn off the transponder regardless of the intention being suicide or hi-jack.

If you don't want to be found, then yes you would.

Admittedly, I think it's more likely a hijacker would turn off the transponder, but a hijacking in this case would have had to have happened so quickly that the crew couldn't get off a call first, which I find somewhat unlikely.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2014-03-09 11:38:57 and read 48309 times.

Quoting Tod (Reply 96):
777 doors cannot be opened in flight and disconnecting them from aircraft would take hours and tools.

Or a passing jetway.

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 182):
One lying on the bottom should get picked up by a P-3's submarine detection gear with very little difficulty.

The MAD's on P-3s detect 'Magnetic Anomalies'. Airliners are mostly aluminum, and not magnetic. Is there enough steel on an airliner the size of a 777 to trigger a response from the MAD?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 11:42:27 and read 47855 times.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 193):
But shouldn't the emergency locator beacon help narrrow it down? That is the most puzzling aspect. Why aren't any distress signals being picked up?

If the ELB/ELT is under water, it won't help much. Sea water behaves like a Faraday cage for most radio frequencies.

Under water, the FDR uses an acoustic pinger. In the search for AF447, several submarines have looked for the signal.


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: 747megatop
Posted 2014-03-09 11:42:53 and read 47629 times.

Identities of some of the passengers -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...a-Airlines-says-plane-missing.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CyberEntomology
Posted 2014-03-09 11:43:29 and read 47508 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 204):
The MAD's on P-3s detect 'Magnetic Anomalies'. Airliners are mostly aluminum, and not magnetic. Is there enough steel on an airliner the size of a 777 to trigger a response from the MAD?

the MADs on a P3 are insanely sensitive and are able to detect some of the subs the Soviets built out of titanium and other non-ferrous materials.

MADs are also used for prospecting all sorts of metals, so they're ridiculously sensitive.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cjg225
Posted 2014-03-09 11:44:59 and read 47196 times.

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 202):
Horizontally, tiny. Vertically, not tiny. Still well within the realm of being easy to locate with a decent ASW crew.

Again, how clear is the water? Did the tail break off, robbing the aircraft of over half of the height of which you speak? Furthermore, even if the tail is intact, it's a thin, vertical object. The top of the fuselage would be comparatively much deeper.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 204):

The MAD's on P-3s detect 'Magnetic Anomalies'. Airliners are mostly aluminum, and not magnetic. Is there enough steel on an airliner the size of a 777 to trigger a response from the MAD?

After having read some responses yesterday, I admit that could be an issue. Still, there might be some pieces large enough to get a small hit, like the landing gear. I don't know if the tool can be entirely ruled out.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: CPDC10-30
Posted 2014-03-09 11:47:05 and read 46787 times.

Quoting stuyyz (Reply 201):

Another crazy conjecture - what's the heading/bearing from the plane's last known location to Mecca?

From the last known location of MH370, it would be a heading of about 291 degrees, give or take a few.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-09 11:50:03 and read 46104 times.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 176):
The same way said ethnic Chinese managed to get in the KUL-PEK plane using said passport? If it's possible in KUL, it's possible in AMS. If you claim it's not possible in AMS, then it shouldn't have been possible in KUL either.

I am not sure if I get your point, but certainly even a most cursory comparison between an ethnic Chinese and a passport photograph of a Caucausian would reveal something foul is going on.

Quoting KFAY (Reply 177):
I don't wish to make any accusations or impugn anyone's character, but as long as we are speculating about possible causes I believe the possibility of a suicide by one of the pilots has to be considered. A very tough possibility to think of, but it would make sense-one pilot exits to use the restroom, the second pilot locks the door and pushes the nose down. Would explain the lack of distress call, and if the aircraft hit the water nose-down at a high rate of speed, it could also explain the lack of debris thus far.

Certainly possible that a suicidal crewmember first turns off the transponder and then nose dives, but why bother with the turning off the transponder?

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 187):
After AF-447 and now MH-370 is there any plans by the manufacturers to introduce technology to have aircrafts automatically transmit short text messages on a continous basis (let's say every minute) that contain location, altitude and speed to the Airline's base? In this modern age with so much technology available a plane should not just go missing.

ADS-B is technology that is used essentially for this purpose and this plane was equipped with the technology. It is very baffling that the plane has not been located despite this technology.

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 198):
I think most evidences so far points into the direction of an in-flight explosion of some kind (not necessarily caused by an unlawful act). I do agree with earlier posters that the lack of debris found so far points against this assumption; but the fact that the ELT hasn't sent any transmissions in addition to losing the aircraft from the radar in a very short period of time indicates to me that something happened in flight and very fast.I don't see any reason for anyone to turn off the transponder regardless of the intention being suicide or hi-jack.I don't see the airplane breaking up for any kind of weather condition(s).I don't see any "common" malfunction(s) which would not give the pilots enough time to send a distress call.

  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: cjg225
Posted 2014-03-09 11:53:30 and read 45583 times.

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 207):
the MADs on a P3 are insanely sensitive and are able to detect some of the subs the Soviets built out of titanium and other non-ferrous materials.

MADs are also used for prospecting all sorts of metals, so they're ridiculously sensitive.

I don't believe they're detecting the hulls themselves. They're detecting the the ferro-metallic objects inside of the subs, especially those objects that change the magnetic field around them, like running electric generators. A 777 won't have a huge amount of ferro-metallic metal on it, but it does have some.

Furthermore, part of the discussion yesterday was also that the MAD arrays on P-3Cs have a very limited field of effectiveness. The small amount of ferro-metallic metal we're talking about could make use of a MAD array seriously limited.

You'll notice that the P-8 Poseidon, our newest fixed-wing ASW aircraft, does not even carry a MAD array, given its effectiveness, or lackthereof.

[Edited 2014-03-09 11:54:33]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: billreid
Posted 2014-03-09 12:00:00 and read 44284 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 103):
We cannot be held responsible for what less than clever people "deduce" from our speculation.

So if your speculation creates false expectations, and hope for the family of a missing person then thats wonderful? I am ashamed of your position. Your entertainment is more important than the sanctity of the missing and their families. There is a time to speculate and a time not too. Now is the time to hold to facts rather than wildly speculate.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 103):
It is human nature. These speculators are not, as a rule, evil.

For me definition of "Evil" is a failure to have empathy for fellow human beings.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 118):
Exactly !!! No one is forced with a gun pointing to the head to check this threads.... and I'm absoultelly sure the families of the passengers don't have the intention to read this threads right now.

Would you bet your life on this statement? It is ridiculously based on your unfounded assumptions. You have no idea who is watching these threads including which authorities. For example, beyond the media, would it be possible for a perpetrator to monitor what is being said? Would it be possible that the authorities to be monitoring sites like this to see who is blogging?

Quoting threepoint (Reply 137):
Sadly, many contributors here do tend to speculate far too much. Armed with a shred more than average knowledge about aviation, many of the wild-arsed guesses can display a veneer of credibility that can confuse the casual reader. We all understand that journalists with less than robust fact-checking prowess tend to troll sites such as this one in order to glean tidbits of information to add to a story. All too often, this info - based on speculative nonsense from people in their bedrooms around the world - appears in various media reports, serving only to further muddy an already murky situation.

We visit this site for accurate information (and to look at pretty pictures). If we want gossip and uneducated opinion, there are plenty of sources to which we can turn. It's fine to ask questions and pose theories here - and have them scrutinized by one's peers. But when we assert speculation (framing one's guesses as fact) while an investigation is in its infancy, we rapidly lose our personal credibility and that of this website. I find it unhelpful when a longtime member dismisses a call for responsibility by another contributor, and makes an aggressive challenge, as if this site were his own. I'll repeat what 'billreid' alluded to: we don't want to read any speculation. It might also mean that this thread would still be in Part 1...

Right on! We need to let the experts do what they do. If one has constructive input instead of "close my eyes and guess" then bring it forward. I am looking for the links for facts, and what is available but I have to scan over the useless white-noise written by those who simple don't know better.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 137):
An outstanding example of deflection and ability to point blame any direction but towards oneself! If one wants to speculate, perhaps they could create or contribute to an aviation site that has less integrity.

Beautifully said. I from time to time will fire up an A vs. B argument. I will argue about flight benefits. But speculation in a case like this may show a lack of empathy, I have ideas about what may have happened but I probably am 99.99999% wrong so I keep them out from the blog.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: UALWN
Posted 2014-03-09 12:03:00 and read 43516 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 178):
Common sense suggests that it is way more likely to be detected when using a stolen Schengen passport registered as such if you pass the Schengen border (AMS) than if you pass the Malaysian border (KUL).

I don't see why. See below.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 210):
I am not sure if I get your point, but certainly even a most cursory comparison between an ethnic Chinese and a passport photograph of a Caucausian would reveal something foul is going on.

Exactly. Both at AMS and at KUL.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 12:03:48 and read 43550 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 204):
The MAD's on P-3s detect 'Magnetic Anomalies'. Airliners are mostly aluminum, and not magnetic. Is there enough steel on an airliner the size of a 777 to trigger a response from the MAD?

In archeology, MADs can even detect ancient footpaths if the soil contains some iron. Foothpaths have a more compacted ground.

I wouldn't be astonished if the MAD could detect the wreckage. But any wreckage they find will be from ships... so they'll be chasing a lot of red herrings.

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 194):
And we have biometric passport since 1998. No joke.

  


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-09 12:06:11 and read 42821 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 117):
I disagree. The weather was very different and the airline has not reported receiving a slew of malfunction reports from the plane.

As usual, Starloinblue is right here. The only thing this shares with AF447 is that it was over open water and it is missing. Every other piece of evidence so far indicates a very different situation.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 155):
Everyone is assuming that the plane crashed at whatever moment contact was lost, and so that's the place where they are looking - where the plane was 40m-1h30m into its flight.

I have thought the same thing. I know in theory someone would have heard the plane crash on land. But if it crashed in a remote area and didn't burn (for whatever reason), then it could be in a jungle somewhere.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 156):
That's true. I've entered the EU multiple times without a stamp and I am definitely not the only one.

Not getting a stamp is different than not having it checked.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 157):
I never get stamped when entering the EU. That does not mean that my passport does not get scanned.

Exactly.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: DBCooper
Posted 2014-03-09 12:07:20 and read 42779 times.

So does anyone know if this aircraft had been delivered or modified with the post-TW 800 fuel tank inerting system?

Apologies if this has been discussed previously...


-DBC

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: RomeoBravo
Posted 2014-03-09 12:08:07 and read 42810 times.

as a suggestion would it be possible to have a short bullet point summary in the op of these part x threads.

sometimes you go away for a day an there's another 1000 posts on the subject when you get back.   

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: qantas077
Posted 2014-03-09 12:08:20 and read 42448 times.

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 182):
Hell, the tail on that thing is 60 feet tall. This is not a small airplane by any stretch.

I'd think it's more a matter of the condition of the plane upon impact, was it intact for the most part, or was it in parts...thus creating a wide search area.

it's there, it's just a matter of where.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: marosbts
Posted 2014-03-09 12:12:06 and read 41658 times.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 213):

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 178):
Common sense suggests that it is way more likely to be detected when using a stolen Schengen passport registered as such if you pass the Schengen border (AMS) than if you pass the Malaysian border (KUL).

I don't see why. See below.

If you board a flight which crosses the Schengen border, your passport details are sent for validation via a message no later than at the time of the departure of the fight. This is true for all outbound and inbound flights. So if you board a flight bound from PEK to AMS, they will pretty well know that you have a stolen passport and will happily await you in AMS upon arrival with handcuffs and a lot of questions. I dont think Malaysia has such requirement nor such a system as the EU in place.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2014-03-09 12:18:42 and read 40531 times.

Quoting na (Reply 21):

If terrorists would have blown the 777 up at flight level then there would be many loose parts, mostly small, floating over a relatively vast area. That no traces have been found in two days does more look like it went down at high speed largely in one piece, taking "everything" underwater in the event.

Only if it disintegrated at altitude. It could have been crippled and descended intact slowly, and broken up at low altitude.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: 345tas
Posted 2014-03-09 12:19:35 and read 40701 times.

Why on Earth are the Malaysians searching in the Straits of Malacca? According to the New Straits Times (can SE Asia English papers think of more original titles?), they already have 4 boats there and are sending another four. "If there is indication of the flight's location there, we will also deploy our aircrafts there," the head of the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency is quoted as saying. Apparently they're searching there due to the indications the plane might have headed back toward KUL. I think I also heard the acting Transport Minister on CNN earlier today saying the Indonesians are helping in the Straits, too.

It seems fairly unlikely the 772 could have flown undetected right across the Malaysian peninsula, only to crash into the Straits of Malacca. Perhaps not the best use of resources.

I've been following the threads closely and I don't think this has been mentioned: that the Italian dude claims his passport was stolen by someone who was at least claiming to be Italian himself (his husband, no less...). From the Guardian, quoting Thai media:

"Mr Maraldi said he arrived on Phuket on March 1 and was planning to leave on March 15. On a holiday last year, he said, he lost his passport in a deal that went wrong at a Patong motorcycle rent shop.

The woman who ran the shop told Mr Maraldi that she had given his passport to an Italian man who ‘'said Mr Maraldi was his husband.’ "

Re the possibility of the two being spies, it is certainly one possibility. As someone pointed out the place should be crawling with Mossad, given the large Lebanese and Iranian communities in KL. But it would be poor tradecraft for them to leave the country together and not separately. The circuitous routing into Europe does fit Mossad MO, however.
MISSING MH370: MMEA deployed four vessels to Straits of Malacca - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...-of-malacca-1.504613#ixzz2vUiFv4dh

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2014-03-09 12:24:52 and read 39484 times.

Once again, noting the rate at which this thread is growing, I will quickly interject

All this childish speculation about what might have happened and how it might have been possible and .......

I am for one reading this for NEWS about this incident, conscious that there people closer to the accident than me may be following this as a focal point for news originating anywhere.

How about trying to improve the quality of posts in regard to the thread topic. Open speculative threads "How might a plane at FL350 crash in the dark" or "stolen passports and their impact on aircraft crashes"



Edited for spelling

[Edited 2014-03-09 12:27:57]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 12:25:47 and read 39501 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 215):
As usual, Starloinblue is right here. The only thing this shares with AF447 is that it was over open water and it is missing. Every other piece of evidence so far indicates a very different situation.

+ it was night, like in AF447
+ no distress call
+ the accident happened during cruise

We have next to zero evidence here. In my opinion, the lack of large (and floating) debris points to a high-speed impact. But a repetition of AF447 can't be ruled out at the moment, and I really hope this isn't the case.

It would be the supreme irony - everybody has heard how AF447 happened, and some of us still remember the cries against Airbus, its design and its flight envelope protections back in 2009...


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-09 12:29:29 and read 38643 times.

Being only ~41 minutes after takeoff is very unlike AF447.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: DALFA
Posted 2014-03-09 12:30:23 and read 38606 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 223):
But a repetition of AF447 can't be ruled out at the moment, and I really hope this isn't the case.

As far as I know the weather in this case was ´perfect´ opposed to the mess that AF447 was flying into and which triggered a chain of events that eventually led to the crash.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: D L X
Posted 2014-03-09 12:33:13 and read 38179 times.

Is there anything at all preventing those who want to speculate from speculating? No. And it's not immoral to do so.

Is there anything at all preventing those who want to get news on this event from getting news? No. And it's not immoral to do so.

I really don't understand the name-calling about those who wish to speculate about what happened in the absence of news. I could have sworn this was an aviation enthusiast website. If not SPECULATION _AND_ NEWS, what is this site even for? Why is speculation only allowed by government authorities and engineers but not aviation enthusiasts?


Speculate away. I wouldn't be surprised if someone on here discovers the actual cause before the news or maybe even the investigators do. It won't be the first time.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: ah414211
Posted 2014-03-09 12:35:19 and read 37762 times.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 222):
I am for one reading this for NEWS about this incident, conscious that there people closer to the accident than me may be following this as a focal point for news originating anywhere.

Might I suggest that if you're seeking NEWS perhaps you should stick to NEWS sites? This is NOT a news site, and the information here is often less than reliable, and speculative at best....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-09 12:36:39 and read 37419 times.

If we "entertain" the idea of a mid air explosion over an ocean, the only incident that comes to my mind is AI 182 over the Atlantic. In that case, was the debris scattered over a large area? How long did it take for them to find the wreckage?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: evomutant
Posted 2014-03-09 12:37:35 and read 37289 times.

There is speculation, and then there is the wild fantasy that would make Hollywood blush.

Some people also seem to get rather too much enjoyment out of discussing how 200+ met their death, as if it some kind of soap opera plot we are discussing over the water cooler.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-09 12:38:02 and read 37292 times.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 222):

I don't get why people have to bring this up all the time. Everytime there is a crash we all speculate of what might have happenend, whats wrong with that? thats were a forum is for, to discuss things. People dont have to read it if u dont want, gosh what a whining sometimes form people. It went the same with previous crashes and the asiana crash, there were 8 or 9 parts of if with mostly people speculating and discuss of what might have happenend cause there wasnt much info, same this time, i think thats normal. Let people have their own theory of what might have happenend, nothing wrong with that. Expecially cause there isnt much info and we all still wait till they find something.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: planesmart
Posted 2014-03-09 12:39:26 and read 36922 times.

Quoting 345tas (Reply 221):
Re the possibility of the two being spies, it is certainly one possibility. As someone pointed out the place should be crawling with Mossad, given the large Lebanese and Iranian communities in KL. But it would be poor tradecraft for them to leave the country together and not separately. The circuitous routing into Europe does fit Mossad MO, however.

In such a case, I think Mossad would have logged with Interpol that they (or another friendly country) had recovered the passports a few days or weeks before they were used, so no longer flagged.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 12:39:55 and read 36961 times.

Quoting DALFA (Reply 225):
As far as I know the weather in this case was ´perfect´ opposed to the mess that AF447 was flying into and which triggered a chain of events that eventually led to the crash.

According to the BEA report, AF447 only encountered light turbulence until the accident. And the weather itself had nothing to do with the clogging of the pitot tubes. A breakdown of CRM can happen on any flight - but on the other side, the captain of MH370 was very experienced with 18'000 hours.


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 12:42:13 and read 36537 times.

So, as with most discussions about aviation accidents, we have "speculation" about a terrorist bomb, terrorist hijack, pilot hijack, pilot suicide, deliberate attack (e.g. by China), a drop to tree-top level to land in a secret far-away place (e.g. North Korea), a meteor strike and probably a few I've missed. And all these speculations are valid because there's no evidence to disprove them?

Meanwhile, a bunch of n00bs are waiting for any helpful information before trying to work out what happened.

Is that a reasonable summary?   

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 223):
It would be the supreme irony - everybody has heard how AF447 happened, and some of us still remember the cries against Airbus, its design and its flight envelope protections back in 2009...

   I was refraining from commenting on how differently this discussion is focused in comparison. Moving on...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: ksbd
Posted 2014-03-09 12:42:31 and read 36157 times.

Quoting D L X (Reply 226):

Preach on! Just to add to some speculation, has anybody seriously considered extraterrestrial involvement yet?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: pilotaydin
Posted 2014-03-09 12:43:06 and read 36226 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 232):

Flying hours is a mis leading item.... TK 1951 had a captain someone i knew he had 17,000 hours.....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: sassiciai
Posted 2014-03-09 12:43:41 and read 36232 times.

Quoting ah414211 (Reply 227):
Might I suggest that if you're seeking NEWS perhaps you should stick to NEWS sites? This is NOT a news site, and the information here is often less than reliable, and speculative at best....

LOL!

If I follow BBC, I have one news source. If 10,000 a,netters each follows their own source, and tehn post NEWS on a.net, guess where my chance of NEWS is higher!

I enjoy speculation, and this site is full of such threads. What might happen with this engine? With this stretch? with 2 more wheels? etc etc ? When we are in a thread about an unexplained disappearance of an aircraft with 239 SOB, with the potential for friends and relatives looking here for, er, NEWS, then I do believe that some of the speculation is actually disrespectful, and ill-thought-out! Here in this thread currently we are speculating on the lives of 239 people!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2014-03-09 12:44:24 and read 36086 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 228):
If we "entertain" the idea of a mid air explosion over an ocean, the only incident that comes to my mind is AI 182 over the Atlantic. In that case, was the debris scattered over a large area? How long did it take for them to find the wreckage?

It was found almost immediately. Wreckage and floating bodies were first discovered by a passing ship. By the end of the first day they'd already recovered at least 120 bodies.
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/24/wo...-suspected-as-cause.html?ref=india

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2014-03-09 12:45:03 and read 36019 times.

Quoting 345tas (Reply 221):
MISSING MH370: MMEA deployed four vessels to Straits of Malacca - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...-of-malacca-1.504613#ixzz2vUiFv4dh

That is truly unbelievable... so does it mean the plane could be anywhere from Indonesia to Viet Nam?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: D L X
Posted 2014-03-09 12:46:46 and read 35550 times.

Quoting evomutant (Reply 229):
There is speculation, and then there is the wild fantasy that would make Hollywood blush.

So what?

You came here to learn, right? Speculating is how people learn.

The big difference between speculating on an aviation enthusiast website such as this and irresponsible speculation by the news is that on this website, we have actual pilots, engineers, and other knowledgable people actively responding to the various theories people come up with. Speculating here does not lead to misinforming the masses as does the media. In fact, it's quite the contrary. Speculating here increases the knowledge base of all that come here because you get to talk to these knowledgable people and learn from people who know.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: thunderboltdrgn
Posted 2014-03-09 12:46:59 and read 35631 times.

Quoting marosbts (Reply 219):
If you board a flight which crosses the Schengen border, your passport details are sent for validation via a message no later than at the time of the departure of the fight. This is true for all outbound and inbound flights. So if you board a flight bound from PEK to AMS, they will pretty well know that you have a stolen passport and will happily await you in AMS upon arrival with handcuffs and a lot of questions. I dont think Malaysia has such requirement nor such a system as the EU in place.

In one of the articles already linked (I think it the one from LA Times), it specifically said that
it wasn't schengen who had the information but a database at Interpol where any country that
was connected to it could look up info about passports that have been reported lost/stolen.

From what was written in the article Malaysia and Malaysia Airways are able to do such
controls but somehow the two passengers on this flight made it on-board anyway.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: DALFA
Posted 2014-03-09 12:50:14 and read 34777 times.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 236):
Here in this thread currently we are speculating on the lives of 239 people!

I think you´re overreacting. No one is speculating on the lives of 239 people. This community is full of aviation enthusiasts that all wonder how a fantastic aircraft like the 777, an aircraft with an incredible safety record, can just disappear for over 30 hours.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2014-03-09 12:50:14 and read 34814 times.

Quoting ksbd (Reply 234):
has anybody seriously considered extraterrestrial involvement yet?

The only reference to extraterrestrial I can remember in these threads since the aircraft went missing was through a film on reply #58 of this thread.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 12:50:38 and read 34806 times.

Quoting planesmart (Reply 231):
In such a case, I think Mossad would have logged with Interpol that they (or another friendly country) had recovered the passports a few days or weeks before they were used, so no longer flagged.

A passport once flagged (because of lost or theft) cannot be used anymore. If I lose my passport (or my ID card) and notify the police about the loss - there's no way I can use the passport again if I just misplaced it in my apartment, and found it after coming back from the police...

Although a new passport costs $$$ (about 160 US$), this is also meant to protect the passport holder. You never know what somebody did with your ID.

There's something much easier: Back in 1998, in Switzerland, a Mossad agent was tasked to spy on a Swiss citizen with Lebanese descent. He entered Switzerland with an Israeli passport, issued by Israel, but... a wrong identity.


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: planesmart
Posted 2014-03-09 12:51:57 and read 34775 times.

There is an overhead in terms of cost and IT capacity to use Interpol's database of Stolen and Lost Travel Documents, so many countries don't, or only use it at the start of the financial year, or when they are quiet. Some contribute to it, but don't use the information.

As a frequent traveller, it should be mandatory for all countries to publish the % of outgoing international passengers details that are checked. Then travellers can make more informed decisions on which countries to visit and avoid.

[Edited 2014-03-09 12:55:05]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: lh648
Posted 2014-03-09 12:53:48 and read 34392 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 178):
Common sense suggests that it is way more likely to be detected when using a stolen Schengen passport registered as such if you pass the Schengen border (AMS) than if you pass the Malaysian border (KUL).

You can buy a ticket, cross the border and board with one passport and enter the country with another.

May be those two guys were wanted by Malaysia and they used stolen passports to leave the country?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: 345tas
Posted 2014-03-09 12:54:04 and read 34088 times.

Quoting planesmart (Reply 231):
In such a case, I think Mossad would have logged with Interpol that they (or another friendly country) had recovered the passports a few days or weeks before they were used, so no longer flagged.

Possibly, I can't say I'm an expert. Although Israel's use of other countries' passports, even friendly ones, is a sensitive topic. Although I would say by now that they would have let it be known to the US and/or to the media by a leak that the two 'Europeans' were theirs, thus ruling them out of the investigation.

I was just watching tonight's MH370 on FR24... what an eerie feeling it would be passing over the spot of last contact if you were on that flight..

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: trex8
Posted 2014-03-09 12:54:10 and read 34279 times.

Does anyone know if the 777 has had more "flight control anomalies" since the MH 124 incident in 2005?

If the Malaysian and Singaporean air defense systems had no track on this flight. Its a poor state of affairs they have especially for the Singaporeans who have spent so much in the last decade or two!! Or do they only think their threat comes from the south???

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: 747megatop
Posted 2014-03-09 12:54:53 and read 34437 times.

This is weird, i took the last know latitude and longitude from http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M.../20140307/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA/tracklog at 35000 feet and plugged it into google maps and this is what i get -

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4%C2%B042'26.3%22N+102%C2%B031'40.1%22E/@4.1373719,103.143206,8z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

The last known position per google maps at that latitude and longitude is over land (in Malaysia to be specific, North East of KUL). Can someone please explain this? Doesn't seem to make sense; unless of course FlightAware is inaccurate.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-09 12:56:22 and read 33917 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 238):
Quoting 345tas (Reply 221):MISSING MH370: MMEA deployed four vessels to Straits of Malacca - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...-of-malacca-1.504613#ixzz2vUiFv4dh

That is truly unbelievable... so does it mean the plane could be anywhere from Indonesia to Viet Nam?

Perhaps "just in case" and the resources are available. It would be a different matter if they'd moved the resources away from the Gulf of Thailand in order to search the Malacca Straits.

Quoting ksbd (Reply 234):
Just to add to some speculation, has anybody seriously considered extraterrestrial involvement yet?

To be fair to this discussion, that's something that's usually brought up much earlier.  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-09 12:56:27 and read 33957 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 243):
A passport once flagged (because of lost or theft) cannot be used anymore. If I lose my passport (or my ID card) and notify the police about the loss - there's no way I can use the passport again if I just misplaced it in my apartment, and found it after coming back from the police...

So... it has a remote self destruct built in or what???

How many countries do you think have on-line lookup to swiss passport database?
You can leave the Schengen without having your passport scanned - depends on luck, yes, but is plausible.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: rdu2sfo
Posted 2014-03-09 12:56:57 and read 33966 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 238):
That is truly unbelievable... so does it mean the plane could be anywhere from Indonesia to Viet Nam?

I made this point in one of the earlier threads when the idea of searching the Malacca Strait was first noted in news reports. It is simply inconceivable that a 777 flew over land undetected by at least the military. The fact that 4 ships are now searching that area is disconcerting.

At this point, the impression that I get is that either there is an unacceptable amount of confusion among the authorities or that far more is known than what is being made public. I would lean towards there being far more known than is being made public...which leads me towards terrorism because of the difference in the way an investigation would unfold and information would be disseminated if that was where this was heading.

A completely unrelated, and I'm sure dumb question: why is it even possible to turn off a transponder? What would be the legitimate reasons for ever doing so on a commercial aircraft?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-09 12:57:10 and read 34590 times.

AF447 went into the water intact, and recognizable debris was found quickly, the next day.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: awthompson
Posted 2014-03-09 12:58:13 and read 34323 times.

When airliners.net moderators close off post 6 and start post 7, I have a general summary ready, having read ALL posts in ALL parts thus far.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Pihero
Posted 2014-03-09 12:58:59 and read 34288 times.

I have the habit of waiting for facts before posting on an accident, and the least *we* all could say is that faxts are scarce :
- Flight in fair weather at night.
- Plane did not check with Vietnamese ATC before / when entering their controlled airspace.
- Latest reports on wreckage puts them some 20 to 30 miles further into Vietnamese airspace.

That-is-it !

Some of us jumped into some conclusions without much technical / physics knowledge ( on the same points, neither did so-called specialists : the most glaring example is the *oil slick* : Jet fuel is both very fluid and light, very quick to evaporate : It just spreads into a very thin surface and the only thing one would see is under some light an irisation of the sea surface )... Plus, had the airplane suffered some in-flight break up, fuel is likely to be vaporised even before reaching the sea.
Finding debris will just be the first step : finding the wreckage and the recorders will need some submarine equipment : sonar or remotely piloted subs.
The state of the wreck would give the first indicfation on how it hit the sea, as a whole or in bits indicating an inflight breaking.
The solution of the mystery will mostly come from the recorders, and that, I'm afraid, will take some time and from us a lot of patience.
Of course, we are totally free to engage in wild speculations and conspiracy theories.

Regards.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-09 12:59:13 and read 34352 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 237):
It was found almost immediately.

Wow, that's pretty interesting. I read the article and that AI accident took place at early in the day. So that might have helped. It is baffling that nothing has been seen or any signal picked up from MH 370 with so many assets deployed and relay of aircraft systems during the flight.

AF 447 had flight data being relayed to AF, which immediately indicated malfunction and crucial aircraft data such as airspeed. It appears that similar data were also relayed for MH 370, but nothing abnormal was detected. This is per Richard Quest from CNN.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2014-03-09 13:00:29 and read 33781 times.

Quoting awthompson (Reply 253):
When airliners.net moderators close off post 6 and start post 7, I have a general summary ready, having read ALL posts in ALL parts thus far.

Much appreciated, thanks!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: andy33
Posted 2014-03-09 13:01:00 and read 33910 times.

Quoting 345tas (Reply 221):
According to the New Straits Times (can SE Asia English papers think of more original titles?),

They're very proud of their descent from the original Straits Times first published in Singapore in 1845. In colonial days this newspaper covered both British Malaya and Singapore. With independence and the divorce between Singapore and Malaysia the Kuala Lumpur edition split off from the (still continuing to this day) Singapore original, and added "New" to its title to indicate that it was now Malaysian owned but still had the same heritage and standards as its ancestor.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-09 13:01:36 and read 33884 times.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 248):

Flightaware is inaccurate, Go with FlightRadar24.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: jetfuel
Posted 2014-03-09 13:07:14 and read 32861 times.

The most useful piece of evidence is possibly the ACARS DATA. Why have we seen nothing of the ACARS info

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: threepoint
Posted 2014-03-09 13:07:15 and read 32790 times.

Quoting ah414211 (Reply 227):
Might I suggest that if you're seeking NEWS perhaps you should stick to NEWS sites? This is NOT a news site, and the information here is often less than reliable, and speculative at best....

Agree that this is not a news site; it merely collects and regurgitates current events that are reported in the general (and sometimes specialty) media. But this site, and a couple others, offers the chance to dive into depths that no media enters - it provides analysis of a hundred things such as aircraft production, route structures, current events etc to a degree that even the aviation publications don't venture. It allows people to pose questions and make comments and have them answered by those in the know. We are lucky to include among our membership many pilots, mechanics, airline and manufacturer staff, designers, engineers and analysts that are involved with, see firsthand or have experienced many of the issues that fill this site. They offer great clarity and understanding as to why, for example, a new airliner may enter service four years late, or why an airline introduced, amended or cancelled a route. But for every one of these industry professionals, we can count dozens of enthusiastic, but ill-informed members that tend to inflate their experience and/or gather their aviation information the same way as the general public - by conventional media outlets.

Of the 1200+ posts on this thread, fewer than a hundred I would venture offer any meaningful insight into the MAS incident that can't be gleaned from a half-dozen clicks on any search engine. That's the risk of any popular website, but let's not get distracted by the elephant in the room: offering speculation as fact makes a fool out of the person who states it, and brings general discredit upon the rest of us. How ironic that many of those who endorse speculation were likely among those who brayed at others - mainly members of the media - who were caught doing the same thing (Capt Sum Ting Wong ring a bell?).

Quoting D L X (Reply 226):
If not SPECULATION _AND_ NEWS, what is this site even for? Why is speculation only allowed by government authorities and engineers but not aviation enthusiasts?

Speculate away. I wouldn't be surprised if someone on here discovers the actual cause before the news or maybe even the investigators do. It won't be the first time.

Is speculation "allowed" by governments and engineers? You'd think these are among the last people to willingly damage their credibility by making guesses without adequate evidence or facts.
If somebody here on this website discovers the actual cause of MH370, that would be a bombshell. I'm at a loss as to how this could possibly happen. It certainly would be the first time. Perhaps you meant you wouldn't be surprised if somebody here GUESSES the actual cause...?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: mcogator
Posted 2014-03-09 13:11:07 and read 32186 times.

Quoting lh648 (Reply 245):
You can buy a ticket, cross the border and board with one passport and enter the country with another.

May be those two guys were wanted by Malaysia and they used stolen passports to leave the country?

Great point. My wife is Russian-American. Whenever she flies to Russia she leaves on her US passport and enters Moscow on her Russian passport. The two stolen passport holders could be Mossad agents leaving on stolen passports where they wouldn't be detected by Malay authorities, and then upon arrival into Europe, they could have just furnished their true passports.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Tobias2702
Posted 2014-03-09 13:12:17 and read 31617 times.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 259):
Why have we seen nothing of the ACARS info

Because a) there is none (as has been mentioned earlier, automatic ACARS messages are not a mandatory feature) or b) it has not yet been made public.

Out of curiosity, I've had a look how the accident of AF 447 unfolded in the airliners.net forum. There, AF quite quickly issued a statement that messages about "electrical and cabin pressure failures" had been received.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-09 13:15:16 and read 31148 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 250):
So... it has a remote self destruct built in or what???

No. But once notified as lost or stolen, it's in the Interpol database. And also in Swiss databases. If I notified my passport as stolen/lost, but in truth I still have it, I could exit Switzerland fairly easily - for example by train or by foot. By an international flight... not really.

But in these years I've seen more and more hand-held devices for reading passports and IDs. On modern flash storage media, one could easily store an up-to-date list of all flagged pass and ID numbers. Worldwide.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 250):
How many countries do you think have on-line lookup to swiss passport database?

Inside Schengen, there is automatic information exchange...


David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: D L X
Posted 2014-03-09 13:17:34 and read 30752 times.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 260):
Is speculation "allowed" by governments and engineers? You'd think these are among the last people to willingly damage their credibility by making guesses without adequate evidence or facts.

ABSOLUTELY.

The scientific process includes speculating on what may have happened, then proving it did, or proving that the known facts contradict the theory. Without a doubt, there is an incredible amount of speculation of what happened to this jet. That speculation is what is going to lead us to an eventual solution. Just because you don't see them speculating on television does not mean they are not speculating.

We've already seen people on this site leading the media and government towards answers. From what I can gather, the fact we now know about the two people who purchased tix with stolen passports having purchased at the same time from the same agent was pieced together here before it ever appeared in the news.

There just simply is no legitimate reason to attempt to shut down speculation on Airliners.net, and you really shouldn't let it bother you that other people are using the site for one of its intended purposes.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 260):
Of the 1200+ posts on this thread, fewer than a hundred I would venture offer any meaningful insight into the MAS incident that can't be gleaned from a half-dozen clicks on any search engine.

That shouldn't surprise anyone. There simply isn't much news to report. But that doesn't mean that 1000s of posts worth of inferences can and should be made.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2014-03-09 13:18:04 and read 30492 times.

This accident is a prime example of where satellite-based WiFi being used to stream CVR/FDR data in real-time would have been hugely helpful.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2014-03-09 13:20:06 and read 30064 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 263):
Quoting s5daw (Reply 250):
So... it has a remote self destruct built in or what???

No. But once notified as lost or stolen, it's in the Interpol database. And also in Swiss databases. If I notified my passport as stolen/lost, but in truth I still have it, I could exit Switzerland fairly easily - for example by train or by foot. By an international flight... not really.

You could also exit Switzerland to any Schengen countries very easily by air. I haven't had to remove my passport from my pocket on any trips from Switzerland to Schengen destinations in the past couple of years. Even at the security check, the only thing they ask for is your boarding pass. I could have made many trips without a passport or any ID whatsoever, especially when you check-in online.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2014-03-09 13:20:08 and read 30225 times.

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
- 2 passengers were travelling with stolen passports and have purchased a ticket simultaneously as their E-ticket numbers were only one digit apart. They were flying KUL-PEK-AMS-CPH.

It's worse than that. The two stolen passport passengers purchased the tickets together; as noted they were sequential tickets. They were paid for in Thai Baht (Thailand being where the passports were stolen) yet the trips were to start in KUL. One pax was booked KUL-PEK-AMS. The other was booked KUL-PEK-CPH. It's suspicious. There is clearly something going on there. Merits investigation. However, it may still be nothing related to the crash, just a coincidence. But compare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot In one African bombing years ago, a ticket was bought for the bomber, point A to B to C. He was told to board, plant the bomb, and get off at B where would be met by someone to take him home and pay him a lot of money. He was told the bomb would explode between B and C. Of course, it was actually set to explode between A and B, killing him.

[Edited 2014-03-09 13:23:28]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-09 13:20:15 and read 30327 times.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 262):
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 259):
Why have we seen nothing of the ACARS info

I believe there is ACARS data. This is what I gathered from Richard Quest's on CNN this morning. From what I understood is that there was nothing unusual observed.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: hh65man
Posted 2014-03-09 13:20:58 and read 30239 times.

Ok, a few comments and remarks have got my curiosity up. Would every qualified airline pilot who has passed on their opinion, judgement, or speculated on this accident please stand up and identify your selves? I am very curious to know what the true professionals think. Or if any of them, you, have put your two cents in.....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-09 13:22:25 and read 29750 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 250):
How many countries do you think have on-line lookup to swiss passport database?

Schengen Information System (SIS) is used by 27 countries, including Switzerland. There are more than 46 million entries (called alerts) in the SIS, mostly covering lost Identity Documents-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Information_System

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-09 13:24:45 and read 29243 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 263):
Inside Schengen, there is automatic information exchange...

I was referring to countries outside Schengen, like Malaysia, where - as you see - having a passport listed in interpol means nothing.

Also, to my knowledge not all passports are scanned and checked when you are leaving Schengen, even if you are flying out. An interesting example is (was?) VIE, where due to renovation of the terminals, there basically is (was?) no outbound pass control in the new terminal (other than some random checks at the gate)...

The point is, you SHOULD not use your revoked passport, but to say "there is no way you could" is simply wrong.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: washingtonflyer
Posted 2014-03-09 13:25:04 and read 29399 times.

I find the angle of the sequential tickets being issued to two individuals with stolen passports to be a rather disturbing aspect of this.

They certainly weren't mules carrying drugs as I doubt highly that you would have drug runners moving product from one country which proscribes the death penalty for drug trafficking to a second country which does the same.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Revelation
Posted 2014-03-09 13:25:07 and read 29473 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 233):
So, as with most discussions about aviation accidents, we have "speculation" about a terrorist bomb, terrorist hijack, pilot hijack, pilot suicide, deliberate attack (e.g. by China), a drop to tree-top level to land in a secret far-away place (e.g. North Korea), a meteor strike and probably a few I've missed.

You did somehow neglect to mention the 'collision with falling satellite' theory back in post 147 of part 2 of this thread  
Quoting David L (Reply 233):
And all these speculations are valid because there's no evidence to disprove them?

Uhm, yeah...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: jetfuel
Posted 2014-03-09 13:26:29 and read 29417 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 268):
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 262):
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 259):
Why have we seen nothing of the ACARS info

I believe there is ACARS data. This is what I gathered from Richard Quest's on CNN this morning. From what I understood is that there was nothing unusual observed.

Then that mean either A. Catastrophic instant failure or B. ACARS system disabled via interference

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: giopan1975
Posted 2014-03-09 13:26:47 and read 29049 times.

Stolen passports issue is highly likely to be irrelevant with incident cause - people board on planes lying about their id in those countries should be quite common I guess...

What is highly suprising is the fact that modern technology cannot detect an airplane of that size and importance in the first 2 minutes after communication loss is established...I believe it has to do with airplane builder (in this case Boeing) huge EGO that such device would never be needed so why waste money and time?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: jfritz
Posted 2014-03-09 13:27:20 and read 29422 times.

This aircraft flew nose first into the ocean, intact, at a high rate of speed.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: Kiwinlondon
Posted 2014-03-09 13:32:09 and read 28746 times.

This is pure speculation. There are two other possibilities:

1) Dangerous goods in the hold that caused a fire. Someone did mention it earlier but no comments have followed that I have seen.

2) What about the recent problems in China? This flight had a CZ code share on it. Does this make it a potential target as a criminal may not know the difference between a "normal" flight and a code share flight?

Kiwinlondon

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-09 13:32:31 and read 30596 times.

Due to length this thread will be locked down for further contributions. All posts added after thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 7 which is available here:

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)


A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome. Enjoy the forums!



Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

SA7700


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