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Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-10 22:10:05 and read 91449 times.

Due to length part 11 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 12.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome. Enjoy the forums!


Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

SA7700

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: alberchico
Posted 2014-03-10 22:13:12 and read 91878 times.

these tweets just came in from CNN :

''CNN JUST IN -- "Large solid debris" sighted in sea by Cathay Pacific Airways pilots ''

''JUST IN: Hong Kong Civil Aviation Dept to CNN: pilots spotted "large solid debris" in Sth China Sea. No proof it's from missing jetliner''

Two CNN reporters have tweeted that the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department have spotted debris in the South China Sea. There is no confirmation yet on this debris, and CNN have not posted anything yet on their site or on their official news streams. Even if there is confirmation that debris was found, as has occurred previously it will need to undertake testing to determine whether it originated from the plane.

[Edited 2014-03-10 22:13:33]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-10 22:17:22 and read 91560 times.

From thread 11

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 267):
Agreed, but something that admittedly bothers me about the PR is that the statement could be technically true AND that the airline doesn't subscribe to ACARS, no?

Not trying to be pedantic here, but a few threads back seemed to mention that MH does not subscribe to ACARS. The only way to reconcile the PR statement with that is to critically evaluate the word choice.

I agree, its like officially they are supposed to have it but somehow the bill has not been paid so in actuallity they do not...

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):

''CNN JUST IN -- "Large solid debris" sighted in sea by Cathay Pacific Airways pilots ''

This maybe the same report from yesterday, without location info its impossible to apraise its credibility.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: seb146
Posted 2014-03-10 22:19:48 and read 91558 times.

I don't know if this has been asked yet, but I have been hearing some radars may have seen the jet make a U-turn. If we go with that, could it be possible it could be missing in the sea on the other side of the Malaysian Peninsula?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: cmhflyguy
Posted 2014-03-10 22:20:05 and read 91605 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 2):
This maybe the same report from yesterday, without location info its impossible to apraise its credibility.

AVHerald says "they saw a large field of debris at position N9.72 E107.42 about 80nm southeast of Ho Chi Minh City"

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-10 22:23:13 and read 91551 times.

Quoting cmhflyguy (Reply 4):

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 2):
This maybe the same report from yesterday, without location info its impossible to apraise its credibility.

AVHerald says "they saw a large field of debris at position N9.72 E107.42 about 80nm southeast of Ho Chi Minh City"

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

This seems to be the Vung Tau debris field, that has been looked at yesterday - without any results. The "large solid debris" reported today seems to be a new, maybe unrelated find.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: cmhflyguy
Posted 2014-03-10 22:30:51 and read 90800 times.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 5):
This seems to be the Vung Tau debris field, that has been looked at yesterday - without any results. The "large solid debris" reported today seems to be a new, maybe unrelated find.

But it mirrors exactly what CNN is reporting if you read the full AVHerald article. So I donno :-/

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LittleFokker
Posted 2014-03-10 22:36:09 and read 90499 times.

I have not followed all the threads closely but have popped in every so often to see if any updates have happened. I think it's very fascinating that it has been 3 whole days, we have 12 A.nut threads about this incident, and there is still little to no credible facts known about what happened. We don't even have a crash site pinpointed yet. I think within a few hours of AF 447, we could at least narrow down the location to within a 50 mile radius or so.

At this point, I'd believe the plane traveled through a time warp, landed at BGR, and is about to get eaten by The Langoliers.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Mikey711MN
Posted 2014-03-10 22:39:45 and read 90159 times.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 3):
I don't know if this has been asked yet, but I have been hearing some radars may have seen the jet make a U-turn. If we go with that, could it be possible it could be missing in the sea on the other side of the Malaysian Peninsula?

That has been my own theory since the initial SAR locations "straddled" both sides of the peninsula. This was further cemented in my mind with the comments made by Malaysian civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman earlier when he said, in response to the obvious question as to why resources would be placed so far from the last known point of contact, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."

Don't get me wrong...I don't consider the notion of some large conspiracy or cover up, and I safely assume that governments have their reasons for keeping things out of the public domain, including Malaysia. In this case, however, what I believe one can safely conclude is that there is some evidence on radar that leads these authorities to believe that the plane is quite a bit further south and west than initially proposed.

This seems consistent with the mantra of "aviate-navigate-communicate". It is indeed truly unfortunate that these pilots never appear to have made it to this last step in their efforts to regain control of the aircraft. But human nature is to find egress from which one enters, so perhaps the natural response was to simply "turn around", provided that the airplane was fit to do so. If there were any maintainable avionics, that seems to make the most sense in the moment.

Taken in combination, something rather catastrophic and debilitating occurred on the flight - ranging from sudden mechanical failure to terrorism, in order of most to least likely IMHO - the effects of which appear to have been unrecoverable. Let's hope the necessary information will itself be recovered in due time.

-Mike

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: airlanka
Posted 2014-03-10 22:43:40 and read 89779 times.

Yes the search is already in both sides of the peninsula. In fact most of the search is in Malacca straight plus the land mass of the peninsula. See the pics in this BBC news article here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26513077

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: alberchico
Posted 2014-03-10 22:49:53 and read 89229 times.

So to summarize, the aircraft is not where it was supposed to be and it seems that the authorities know more than they are revealing ?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2014-03-10 22:55:34 and read 88598 times.

Anything in the cargo manifest that deserves a closer search?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: gr325
Posted 2014-03-10 22:55:39 and read 88711 times.

IT seems like they released a High Res satellite image so everybody can help searching.
Its a 3200 km2 area so might take a while to load

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-10 22:57:16 and read 88431 times.

Quoting gr325 (Reply 15):
IT seems like they released a High Res satellite image so everybody can help searching.
Its a 3200 km2 area so might take a while to load

I've tried to get on there a couple times. I either get an error, or when I get the actual page it won't load all the way. Bummer.
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: airlanka
Posted 2014-03-10 22:58:44 and read 88211 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 12):
So to summarize, the aircraft is not where it was supposed to be and it seems that the authorities know more than they are revealing ?

Seems that way. Otherwise why should the search area to the west of peninsula in Malacca Strait and on the land together be as much as four to five times larger than the search area near the place where the aircraft's final contact position in South China Sea?

[Edited 2014-03-10 22:59:37]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: wxmeddler
Posted 2014-03-10 23:04:53 and read 87803 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 16):

It seems everyone has been having that issue... I think their server is just being super-overloaded at the moment. Their twitter account has said they got over 10,000 pings within the first 2 hours, and that was before it went viral. I'm seeing multiple links on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook etc. now. I'm sure the amount of traffic the site is getting from SE Asis is enormous.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Mikey711MN
Posted 2014-03-10 23:16:17 and read 86469 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 12):
So to summarize, the aircraft is not where it was supposed to be and it seems that the authorities know more than they are revealing ?

I'm personally not convinced that it's an either-or choice. In some sort of disintegration or massive structural failure, would, say, a sizable portion of the wing (again, one that was subject to a significant repair) show a return on primary radar in addition to the larger craft?

In other words, if radar is capable of that type of granularity to show two objects, it would certainly explain the vow of silence behind the nearly certain radar evidence that has them searching for, in my opinion, any fallen pieces near the point of last contact and the remaining craft closer to land. But I would think it important to recover from both areas, particularly as any hypothesized debris would not have the benefit of any locators to listen to, which further explains the long-standing resource commitment to points more north and east along the original flightpath.

Food for thought,
-Mike

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: BA025Heavy
Posted 2014-03-10 23:33:43 and read 84401 times.

If the aircraft did crash into the Straights of Mallaca then it would have crossed the Malaysian peninsula and surely someone would have seen or heard something. Parts of the peninsula are sparsly populated but its not like Borneo where things really can disappear!

I don't think their is some form of conspiracy going on but the Malaysian authorities performance in front of the media has been dreadful. They are clearly not revealing everything they know (in my opinion) which makes me think that what they know is not particularly flattering to Malaysia. I feel like they are managing the fall out for the country. Having said that if the Malaysian authorities know more than they are letting on surely other countries do to. I'm confused!!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-10 23:34:23 and read 84140 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 12):
So to summarize, the aircraft is not where it was supposed to be and it seems that the authorities know more than they are revealing ?

They either know more, or even less. The whole concept of possible (ie unknown) overflight and ending up having to search both sides of the peninsula gives me a headache. I can't help get the impression they're not being as forthcoming so as not to expose the cracks in their radar coverage.

Alternatively, they're also looking for the drug runners' aircraft which eventually ended up crashing on the West side. Rather far-fetched (or not) but expanding the search to include the Malacca Strait strikes me as bizarre.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-10 23:34:33 and read 85740 times.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/wo...irlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Read paragraph 8. It seems as they are indeed searching the Malayan peninsula, between the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman Sea.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-10 23:40:52 and read 85951 times.

I suppose any new debris field that is *near* to any marine flotsam already checked deserves to be checked again. It shouldn't be that the MH370 debris plays mimicry and hides behind non-suspicious flotsam like this red/orange cable drum...

Yesterday I've spend an hour looking at the tomnod images, having tagged about 40 floating objects (and in 16 cases the tagging agreed with that of other people). It's easy to get frustrated there... clouds, clouds, water, clouds, and might this be a wave crest or... no, nothing... water, water... I can feel for the SAR guys out there.

But crowd-sourced interpretation of satellite imagery is the way to. We already count refugee camps that way, and during the last tropical storm in SE Asia, the anonymous crowd has helped identifying damaged roads and bridges, thus helping the land-based disaster relief.


David

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: rj777
Posted 2014-03-10 23:54:20 and read 84051 times.

I think they should start bringing in submarines...... after all the pingers on the recorders only last about what, 2-3 months?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-10 23:54:31 and read 84092 times.

Wasn't there a new press conference due by now?  

E: Or is everything said in the latest CNN article?

[Edited 2014-03-10 23:57:55]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: malaysia
Posted 2014-03-10 23:57:09 and read 83734 times.

Quoting BA025Heavy (Reply 23):
but its not like Borneo where things really can disappear!

Thanks for the reminder, new search area should be Borneo?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-10 23:58:56 and read 83551 times.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 29):
Wasn't there a new press conference due by now?  

Someone in the previous thread mentioned the 3PM news conference was cancelled. Maybe they have something new they are working on? *fingers crossed*
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-11 00:00:07 and read 84376 times.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 29):
Wasn't there a new press conference due by now?

Looks like it's about to begin.
http://www.astroawani.com/

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liftsifter
Posted 2014-03-11 00:00:52 and read 84267 times.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 28):
I think they should start bringing in submarines...... after all the pingers on the recorders only last about what, 2-3 months?

Actually, 30-Days is my understanding. Maybe the triple seven's got a longer life on them, but I'm pretty sure it's 30-days. They've found planes without pingers, far deeper than these waters. This is just pathetic, really.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-11 00:06:30 and read 85374 times.

I think there are three scenarios that can be considered:

1 - Catastrophical structural or mechanical failure at the last known location. However, as no debris is found near the last known location, this scenario becomes less and less likely.

2 - Major electrical failure and the crew tries to return to Kuala Lumpur. This would explain why the transponders and ACARS lost and why no distress signal. However, is that a realistic failure mode for a modern jetliner that has multiple back up systems for electricity?

3 - Suicidal pilot switching off the transponders and ACARS and crashes the plane who knows where. If this is something that happened, the search are will eventually be huge, up to the range from the last known location.

Everything else is even less likely and remote.

The authorities probably know more than they tell (for example based on the primary radar recordings), but I fully understand they cannot speculate based on purely circumstancial evidence.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: alberchico
Posted 2014-03-11 00:06:40 and read 85297 times.

the guardian has a live blog covering the press conference :

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rlines-plane-search-continues-live

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: infinit
Posted 2014-03-11 00:11:16 and read 84491 times.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 28):
I think they should start bringing in submarines...... after all the pingers on the recorders only last about what, 2-3 months?

Singapore has sent submarines.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 00:11:29 and read 84748 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 12):
So to summarize, the aircraft is not where it was supposed to be and it seems that the authorities know more than they are revealing ?

I'm veering between the Malaysian authorities do know something but are not being transparent (which is a worry), to they know absolutely nothing and it's all a wreck of a SAR mission. Howeever, if they really do know something, then why search in the Gulf of Thailand and waste all that resource, so currently I'm of the opinion that they know nothing.

If MH370 did turn back and reached the search areas where they are looking in the Malacca Strait, then that distance is about equivalent to the distance the plane had reached from Kuala Lumpur or more, so perhaps it flew for another 40 minutes or more. Then if that were the case, why still no communication unless the cockpit crew were disabled as a result of something else?

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 31):
Someone in the previous thread mentioned the 3PM news conference was cancelled. Maybe they have something new they are working on? *fingers crossed*

Isn't this happening now?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2014-03-11 00:12:51 and read 84510 times.

one of the passengers using a fake passport has been identified as a 19 year old from Iran and authorities believe he was trying to emigrate to Germany.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-11 00:16:19 and read 84055 times.

Maybe it is just a language barrier. But the gentleman they are interviewing seems hesitant before he speaks. It makes me think they know a lot more than they are sharing. Something just doesn't seem right about it.
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 00:17:16 and read 84072 times.

From the press conference:

"We are looking into four areas: one hikacking, two sabotage, three psychological problems of the passengers and crew and four personal problems among the passengers and crew"

But not failure of the aircraft systems, I wonder why?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2014-03-11 00:18:48 and read 84003 times.

Also raising doubts about the possibility of an attack, the United States extensively reviewed imagery taken by spy satellites for evidence of a mid-air explosion, but saw none, a US government source said. The source described U.S. satellite coverage of the region as thorough.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...loved-ones-smartphones-active.html

So the US review is leaning towards something other than an explosion.

GUYAIR707

[Edited 2014-03-11 00:20:12]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2014-03-11 00:20:17 and read 83206 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 41):
But not failure of the aircraft systems, I wonder why?

Nor pilot error.... This speaker is responsible for figuring out who is on the plane and what their backgrounds are to see if there are motives for bringing down the aircraft. This is an intelligence officer of some kind, not a SAR or an airplane guy.

...At least I think. They aren't managing this well.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: westjet_737
Posted 2014-03-11 00:20:18 and read 83125 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 41):

"We are looking into four areas: one hikacking, two sabotage, three psychological problems of the passengers and crew and four personal problems among the passengers and crew"

But not failure of the aircraft systems, I wonder why?

I believe the person speaking here is the Inspector General of the police. He is referring to what is being investigated by the police only.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-11 00:21:01 and read 83257 times.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 101):
Interesting - I did not know that. Maybe it has to do with
1) Density of radar systems
2) The fact that radar was largely deployed in Europe first (due to the wars).
Quoting rcair1 (Reply 107):
Secondary has much larger range and most ATC systems do not use primary much (apparently Europe does.)

Hi rcair1... I am nearly 100% that you guys over in the USA have primary radar still. Your FAA website has this information about their integrated PSR/SSR ASR-11 equipment.

I would be surprised if there is a terminal area without some form of PSR - otherwise how would you detect those 'lost' pilots not squawking?

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 40):
think they know a lot more than they are sharing

I can guarantee you that...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: dan23
Posted 2014-03-11 00:22:24 and read 83103 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 41):
But not failure of the aircraft systems, I wonder why?

I may be incorrect but my understanding (from what was said) is that those four areas areas are with respect to the investigations being undertaken by the Police only and not the aviation investigators

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 00:24:15 and read 82553 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 40):

Maybe it is just a language barrier. But the gentleman they are interviewing seems hesitant before he speaks. It makes me think they know a lot more than they are sharing. Something just doesn't seem right about it.

Language barrier is part of it. He is speaking with Malay accented English, which is rather close to Singlish. It takes a while to get used to it if you're not a local resident.

Mostly, it seems to me that he is ensuring he has everyone's attention before he starts speaking. There is a lot of chatter and he cleverly just stares them down in a gentle manner while pausing so he knows he won't have to repeat himself.

He is also rather good at managing the crowd. Small jokes. Firm hand while being outwardly gentle. Patient.


[Edited 2014-03-11 00:25:56]

[Edited 2014-03-11 00:26:42]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 00:29:06 and read 82359 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 43):
Nor pilot error.... This speaker is responsible for figuring out who is on the plane and what their backgrounds are to see if there are motives for bringing down the aircraft. This is an intelligence officer of some kind, not a SAR or an airplane guy.

...At least I think. They aren't managing this well.

My thoughts too, and yes I agree they are not handling it well. The police chief is now contradicting the claim that five people were no shows and had luggage unloaded. It's all a mess that doesn't build confidence.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 00:29:44 and read 82428 times.

Continually updated here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rlines-plane-search-continues-live

[Edited 2014-03-11 03:13:49 by SA7700]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-11 00:31:28 and read 82178 times.

Yeah this press conference was a total shit-show....seriously. It doesn't help when the media are constantly hounding the poor guy too.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: CalebWilliams
Posted 2014-03-11 00:33:11 and read 81807 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 37):

yes
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rlines-plane-search-continues-live

Quote:
The police chief has also contradicted the earlier statement made by Malaysia’s aviation chief on Monday that five people did not board the plane. In no uncertain terms he said:

“There is no such thing as five person who did not board the plane. There is no such thing.”
“You take it from me, there were no such thing.”
“Nobody booked the ticket that did not board.”

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 00:33:13 and read 82082 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):
Continually updated here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-live

Although not reported there, but by the AP who say that according to the airline the west coast of the country is now the focus of the search area ... a continually developing situation!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-11 00:33:40 and read 81776 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):
Continually updated here

   Thanks!

Cheers
Coal

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-11 00:40:29 and read 81372 times.

there was this on PPrune:

http://i.imgur.com/KtDYQf4.jpg

pretty creepy if true.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-11 00:47:33 and read 79832 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 58):

Except torching the plane would result in a huge black smoke plume detectable by satellite... best just leave it alone.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 00:48:10 and read 80106 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 58):

there was this on PPrune:

http://i.imgur.com/KtDYQf4.jpg

pretty creepy if true.

Very interesting analysis of a very unlikely scenario.

You could probably not do FL350 from the presumed loss of contact point though as primary radar can track. You could drop to 5000 feet until you get to open ocean and then climb again, but of course your fuel burn would go through the roof for those bits of the flight.

I'll note that a 4500ft runway is the Boeing figure, but it is for "normal service", meaning no heroic braking, a 30% safety factor and an assumption of 50ft height at the threshold. Methinks a skilled pilot could stop a 777 on a runway shorter than 3000 feet. It would be hard for him to get into the pilot's seat though as there would be no space for his gigantic brass balls.

The 3000 foot runway figure expands the possibilities considerably as you're talking a large number of tiny airports.

[Edited 2014-03-11 00:49:13]

[Edited 2014-03-11 00:49:48]

[Edited 2014-03-11 00:50:19]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: redadeco
Posted 2014-03-11 00:51:26 and read 79514 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 58):

there was this on PPrune:

http://i.imgur.com/KtDYQf4.jpg

pretty creepy if true.

This guy has gone too, too far.

The chances this scenario would occur are very minimal if not zero. Anyway the background check on all passengers will shade more light on whether a hijacking is possible or not.

What we can say at the moment is that the 2 passengers with stolen passports are most likely Iranian illegal migrants who arranged their European trip with the middle man named Ali, I wish this guy could do the world a big favour and come out to say publicly that he planned everything for them to rule out the terrorism possibility linked with these 2 aliens.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: gr325
Posted 2014-03-11 00:51:58 and read 79358 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
It would be hard for him to get into the pilot's seat though as there would be no space for his gigantic brass balls.

That made me laugh  

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2014-03-11 00:56:20 and read 78522 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
Very interesting analysis.

What are the chances there would be zero indication of a ghost plane and no flights or texts leaked out when the were crossing land. Its a pretty outrageous thought that I have only vocalized (not typed) but I think we all have to be thinking that it would be close to a dream scenario at this point right?

tortugamon

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 00:59:31 and read 77845 times.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 64):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
Very interesting analysis.

What are the chances there would be zero indication of a ghost plane and no flights or texts leaked out when the were crossing land. Its a pretty outrageous thought that I have only vocalized (not typed) but I think we all have to be thinking that it would be close to a dream scenario at this point right?

Quite. Very interesting analysis. Astonishingly unlikely scenario. However rather oddly we cannot rule it out completely right now.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: AF185
Posted 2014-03-11 01:00:16 and read 77571 times.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 62):
This guy has gone too, too far.

  

To match with this scenario, the a/c would also need to land somewhere with Zero cell phone transmission, so that no handset from passengers/crew could be located (assuming it is unlikely hijackers could retrieve all emitting devices on board)

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2014-03-11 01:06:24 and read 76536 times.

Quoting AF185 (Reply 66):
(assuming it is unlikely hijackers could retrieve all emitting devices on board)

I took that as the easiest component of the entire far-fetched idea personally.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Summa767
Posted 2014-03-11 01:14:49 and read 75570 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 59):
Only the update was nothing new to report.

There is, only that it's between the lines.
Of the 4 possible scenarios given, 3 have to do with interference: hijacking, personal problem of the pax/crew and psychological problems of the pax/crew.
This, together with the widened area of search suggest to me that they think it likely that the plane was deliberately taken out of its scheduled route.
The other scenario is sabotage, which could mean a bomb or deliberate damage to the aircraft systems. But with the already mentioned evidence of the airplane quite possibly turning, a sudden explosion, or catastrophic event that many, including CNN's Richard Quest, have been certain about, may not be so.

Also new is that they really do not think that the 19 yo Iranian had relations with terrorisms. He was travelling to migrate to Germany, where his mother is expecting him. Yes, on a forged passport, but it would probably be his only way in.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2014-03-11 01:20:13 and read 74881 times.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 69):
There is, only that it's between the lines.

Just going by some of the other comments, the impression I get is that those four scenarios were only based on a criminal investigation and not mechanical/pilot error issues. Now whether that is because they have info they aren't sharing or if it's because the guy speaking was a criminal investigator, I don't know.

-Dave

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: canadiantree
Posted 2014-03-11 01:28:48 and read 73687 times.

Has any one confirmed whether the sightings from the Cathay crew of debris panned out? Given that no updates from the media probably means no...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-11 01:28:52 and read 73678 times.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 62):
What we can say at the moment is that the 2 passengers with stolen passports are most likely Iranian illegal migrants who arranged their European trip with the middle man named Ali, I wish this guy could do the world a big favour and come out to say publicly that he planned everything for them to rule out the terrorism possibility linked with these 2 aliens.

That guy probably can't come out cause he most likely has his fingers in many pies; stuff like that. As soon as he comes out, they are gonna throw the book at him....

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-11 01:29:17 and read 73704 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 41):
From the press conference:

"We are looking into four areas: one hikacking, two sabotage, three psychological problems of the passengers and crew and four personal problems among the passengers and crew"

But not failure of the aircraft systems, I wonder why?

Speculation....perhaps the past 4 days of "results" (or lack thereof) are not perceived as matching well with an aircraft failure scenario? I'm overstepping my knowledge here, but I THINK that there are typically two scenarios in aircraft failure: (A) wreckage is found along the planned flight route, or (B) wreckage is found some significant distance from the flight route AND there was radio communication involved. I am certainly no expert in this area, but I can't think of a major incident where the aircraft continued on a significant distance without communications prior to crashing.

I'm not calling into question the concept of "aviate, navigate, communicate" either; merely observing that the likelihood for communication goes up the longer the plane stays in the air.

[Edited 2014-03-11 01:32:41]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-11 01:30:17 and read 73746 times.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 71):

Here are the two illegal aliens with forged passports, they actually look Iranian and have nothing to do with Balotelli  

i could see them passing for Europeans easily; that's how they would have gotten on the flight undetected by Malaysian Authorities.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-11 01:32:11 and read 73654 times.

Quoting canadiantree (Reply 74):
Has any one confirmed whether the sightings from the Cathay crew of debris panned out? Given that no updates from the media probably means no...

No, at the press conference they said that all reported debris fields had been ruled out.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-11 01:34:42 and read 73227 times.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 62):

This guy has gone too, too far.

The chances this scenario would occur are very minimal if not zero. Anyway the background check on all passengers will shade more light on whether a hijacking is possible or not.

What we can say at the moment is that the 2 passengers with stolen passports are most likely Iranian illegal migrants who arranged their European trip with the middle man named Ali, I wish this guy could do the world a big favour and come out to say publicly that he planned everything for them to rule out the terrorism possibility linked with these 2 aliens.

interestingly enough, if you go back to the thread in real time, that post seems to have been deleted and then another one has taken its place. But later on in the thread, the same user refers back to his post...which obviously isn't there now.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-11 01:35:57 and read 73561 times.

Did anyone notice this comment from the TheGuardian blog's live coverage of the press conference?

"The United Nations Nuclear Test Ban Treaty Organisation has asked nuclear experts to check for any evidence of an explosion in relation to the missing plane."

I guess maybe they are covering all of their bases...but I was still quite surprised to see it. They can't possibly be considering that a nuclear device was detonated on the aircraft, can they? That seems almost as wild as "aliens"...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2014-03-11 01:38:45 and read 72708 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 80):
Did anyone notice this comment from the TheGuardian blog's live coverage of the press conference?

"The United Nations Nuclear Test Ban Treaty Organisation has asked nuclear experts to check for any evidence of an explosion in relation to the missing plane."

I guess maybe they are covering all of their bases...but I was still quite surprised to see it. They can't possibly be considering that a nuclear device was detonated on the aircraft, can they? That seems almost as wild as "aliens"...

I would imagine they are just looking for another source that might be able to verify that an explosion of some kind took place. While not nuclear, perhaps their equipment is capable of picking something like this up?

-Dave

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-11 01:43:37 and read 72324 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 82):
I would imagine they are just looking for another source that might be able to verify that an explosion of some kind took place. While not nuclear, perhaps their equipment is capable of picking something like this up?

-Dave

The Americans already checked 2 days ago, they found nothing. The UN are unlikly to have their own satilite resources.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-11 01:51:26 and read 71151 times.

If indeed they are looking for a nuclear signature, then they could be looking at air sampling or ground sampling - in much the same way that the world learned of the Chernobyl disaster.

I can't imagine that "nuclear experts" would have any particular expertise in detecting non-nuclear events, but I can't imagine that they are seriously considering the possibility of a nuclear event here either.

Puzzling to me.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-11 01:53:44 and read 70989 times.

Hijacking looks unlikely.
Structural damage possible but would have given pilots some chance to send some signal to atc. So chances are slim.
Suicide is possible.

Another theory, could have been shot down by missile for one or other reason or by mistake?

Is it not possible to scan land area by satellite while SAR happening over waters?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LH648
Posted 2014-03-11 01:53:50 and read 70984 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 80):
I guess maybe they are covering all of their bases...but I was still quite surprised to see it. They can't possibly be considering that a nuclear device was detonated on the aircraft, can they? That seems almost as wild as "aliens"...

They just have very sensitive equipment that potentially can "smell" plane crashing into the water.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-11 01:56:15 and read 70969 times.

I woke up this morning to see the headlines on the morning news.

"ex spy says Iran not Libya responsible for Lockerbie"
http://www.bing.com/r/1A/Gj91d?a=1&m=EN-GB

two Iranians on stolen passports board disappeared flight MH370. As they say... Timing is everything.

anyways, until a wreckage is found we can't be sure of anything. I truly hope that they have been hijacked and they are all being held captive by al shabab militants in Somalia... No matter how improbable that seems, it's preferable to my mind than a crash.

The fact the authorities have not quelled the speculation but fuelled it with the last press conference may give hope of sorts?

I'm still, however, in the camp of a ditching towards Borneo, after some sort of fire or event that disabled comms, controls to an extent , lights and later, power.

Starlionblue posted an excellent summary of what happens to jets in degraded power mode, but that was a few threads ago yesterday morning.

edited- it's also very telling that they identified one of the two Iranians so quickly. IMO, that indicates a "known to authorities" status. But i could be wrong.

[Edited 2014-03-11 01:59:57]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 01:56:40 and read 70400 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 85):
I can't imagine that "nuclear experts" would have any particular expertise in detecting non-nuclear events

Well, they have half a century of experience in detecting US or Soviet underground tests through seismic monitoring.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 01:57:12 and read 70511 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 70):
Just going by some of the other comments, the impression I get is that those four scenarios were only based on a criminal investigation and not mechanical/pilot error issues. Now whether that is because they have info they aren't sharing or if it's because the guy speaking was a criminal investigator, I don't know.
Quoting slinky09 (Reply 41):
"We are looking into four areas: one hikacking, two sabotage, three psychological problems of the passengers and crew and four personal problems among the passengers and crew"

But not failure of the aircraft systems, I wonder why

This was the police/security head (can't remember exact title). He specifically only addressed the criminal bits of the investigation and stated he would leave the aviation bits (search and rescue, mechanicals etc) to the aviation authority head.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 73):
It's not just PPrune with the wild speculations though; one of the websites did quote airliners.net in saying that some member on here came up with the theory the plane has disappeared and is going to be used as a suicide mission like in Tom Clancy's book Debt of Honor. I wonder which genius said that lol

It's somewhere in the past 3000 posts. You go look for it. We'll wait. 

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2014-03-11 02:02:45 and read 69890 times.

The ineptitude of the Malaysian authorities is quite astounding. If they know something, they should at least inform the families. By with witholding information they are making the pain and suffering even more intense than it needs to be.

Sure, maybe something did happen like the plane was accidentally shot down... I guess the military could have mistaken it for a unidentified aircraft if for some reason the transponder failed.

For some reason the regime are paranoid...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LO231
Posted 2014-03-11 02:05:17 and read 69531 times.

Is there any hope? Belgian news announced somebody's mobile on board still works, no answer... Cannot stop being upset

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: murchmo
Posted 2014-03-11 02:08:11 and read 68805 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 85):

No. They have equipment that detects frequencies out of human capabilities. They are searching for anything abnormal that could be an explosion. Nuclear or not.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 02:11:02 and read 68609 times.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 92):

Is there any hope? Belgian news announced somebody's mobile on board still works, no answer... Cannot stop being upset

We're way ahead of the news here...  

A ringtone does not necessarily mean that the phone is actually ringing (it's network generated). We had similar "news" with AF447. So these reports are no help whatsoever. For all the technical details see the last 2 or 3 installments of this thread.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: marosbts
Posted 2014-03-11 02:11:18 and read 68695 times.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 88):
edited- it's also very telling that they identified one of the two Iranians so quickly. IMO, that indicates a "known to authorities" status. But i could be wrong.

Read the Guardian summary. It seems the mother of one of the Iranians was awaiting him in Frankfurt and she reported to the authorities when he did not show up. This was most likely the reason why they got the information about him so quickly.Based on the information so far disclosed, it seems the hijack theory has been pretty well discredited.

However based on the information provided or more to say - said between the lines, its more likely that one of the pilots just went nuts and took over the control once the other pilot went to the toilet. It makes me wonder if we due to these cases will see return of 3 men crews sooner or later.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-11 02:11:41 and read 68386 times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 91):
The ineptitude of the Malaysian authorities is quite astounding. If they know something, they should at least inform the families. By with witholding information they are making the pain and suffering even more intense than it needs to be.

Why do you think they actually know anything more than we do? So far the fact they are searching from many different directions would indicatethey don't have a clear idea where exactly the plane went after disappearing from radar.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 91):
Sure, maybe something did happen like the plane was accidentally shot down... I guess the military could have mistaken it for a unidentified aircraft if for some reason the transponder failed.

For some reason the regime are paranoid...

Makes no sense, if you see an unidentified aircraft at FL350 you aren't going to shoot it down, you will go and try identify the aircraft, also you would want to co-operate with local ATC.

Of course some kind of an accident could be possible, however I really don't see why Malaysian (or any other military) would be doing exercises in middle of busy air route at 1AM, without notifying anyone.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Leej
Posted 2014-03-11 02:13:29 and read 68462 times.

I've not read every thread, but awoke this morning with this 'nagging' thought.
What if the Captain, with his amazing simulator set up at home, was training himself for a mission more sinister? Out of the public eye, away from his employers. If Malaysian and the authorities had an idea of this, perhaps this is the reason they are not so forthcoming with information?
As I said, just a nagging thought.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: melpax
Posted 2014-03-11 02:13:55 and read 68919 times.

A young woman claims she was entertained in the cockpit for an entire flight back in 2011 by the co-pilot who was on board the Malaysian Airlines plane that went missing on Saturday.

Jonti Roos, who lives in Melbourne, came forward with photos of her posing with a man she claims is 27-year-old Fariq Abdul Hamid - the first officer on missing flight MH370.


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...ers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot

Some interesting flight deck behaviour.......

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LO231
Posted 2014-03-11 02:14:21 and read 68007 times.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 94):

Thanks Jim, Im just upset about the news coverage, watchin CNN and BBC here 24 24

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-11 02:18:40 and read 67881 times.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 89):
Well, they have half a century of experience in detecting US or Soviet underground tests through seismic monitoring

Fair point - I wonder how sensitive their equipment is. North Korea's first nuclear test yielded approximately 1 kiloton (4.2x10^12 joules) of energy, and was generally considered an incomplete reaction. Assuming my math is correct - a 777 at MTOW and redlined airspeed would yield an equivalent of 0.002 kiloton of kinetic energy (8.7x10^9 joules) - more if the fuel were able to truly explode instead of just burn.

I imagine they have already polled any submarines or undersea listening posts in the area - a 777 hitting the sea could possibly have created quite the under-sea racket, and submarines/undersea listening devices can be awfully sensitive.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2014-03-11 02:20:15 and read 67676 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
You could probably not do FL350 from the presumed loss of contact point though as primary radar can track. You could drop to 5000 feet until you get to open ocean and then climb again, but of course your fuel burn would go through the roof for those bits of the flight.

Not that I believe that mess of a story, but what 'primary' radar is anywhere near the Indian Ocean except for Diego Garcia and any naval ships there (which we wouldn't know about)? Also, the fuel burn during climb is a relatively small point. You're talking 20-30 minutes of flight and ~20-25,000 lbs. fuel, that includes takeoff. A second climb from 1000' or 5000' would use less.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 62):
What we can say at the moment is that the 2 passengers with stolen passports are most likely Iranian illegal migrants who arranged their European trip with the middle man named Ali, I wish this guy could do the world a big favour and come out to say publicly that he planned everything for them to rule out the terrorism possibility linked with these 2 aliens.

The best legal advice is to never say anything to anyone. Why would he do the world a favor when he is under scrutiny and possible charges? Even if these people are not terrorists, there is blood in the water, and vengeance is wanted.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 71):
Here are the two illegal aliens with forged passports, they actually look Iranian and have nothing to do with Balotelli  

So where did the rumors of one of them being 'black' or 'African' come from?  
Quoting nm2582 (Reply 80):
"The United Nations Nuclear Test Ban Treaty Organisation has asked nuclear experts to check for any evidence of an explosion in relation to the missing plane."

I guess maybe they are covering all of their bases...but I was still quite surprised to see it. They can't possibly be considering that a nuclear device was detonated on the aircraft, can they? That seems almost as wild as "aliens"...

This refers to satellite networks that can detect ballistic missile launches and nuclear explosions, usually through infrared sensors. The US SBIRS system is an example of this. The sensitivity of said sensors is obviously classified. I would think logically that missile warning sensors are more sensitive than nuclear explosion detection sensors (DSP or IONDS). I would also think that missile launch detection satellites would have some logic in them that eliminates false positives. Say a velocity, trajectory, and IR wavelength component algorithm that can calculate on the fly. (You wouldn't want a truck bomb/IED fooling you into thinking Iraqi/Taliban insurgents launched a ballistic missile obviously...)

The US has satellite networks that can detect and identify photo/radar/infrared/EM spectrum returns smaller than 3". I would think the US NRO is searching for the plane too, if nothing more than as an unofficial exercise (but maybe officially). Certain wavelengths can penetrate water better than others. There are also ways of using classified data and not revealing the source of it. (I.e. you have 3 SAR vessels, direct one in the proper direction, and fan two out in other directions. You find the target...no one is the wiser.)

Overall though, I think people are making too much of these satellites. An explosion can be terribly small and bring down an airliner. It is more likely that the remains of said aircraft would be detectable by satellite-based sensors, not the initial explosion itself.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: windshear
Posted 2014-03-11 02:23:57 and read 67322 times.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 92):
Is there any hope? Belgian news announced somebody's mobile on board still works, no answer... Cannot stop being upset

I've seen many Asians with their Iphone in water proof containers... Could be why...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-11 02:25:29 and read 66901 times.

Quoting marosbts (Reply 95):

respectfully, the press have been pretty shocking and whether the mother story turns out true or not, I'm not so sure. I mean, if she knew he was on a stolen passport but didn't know the route, being held by immigration somewhere would be a more likely scenario- I'm not sure she's automatically going to dump him in the sh*thouse so quickly.

but its possible.

also, you've said hijacking discredited- how so? Especially since the last press conference.

edit- checked guardian... This is headline
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...botage-passengers-problems-concern

[Edited 2014-03-11 02:30:25]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LO231
Posted 2014-03-11 02:25:45 and read 66791 times.

Seems like worse crash thn 747s in TFS back then, I just get more upset

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-11 02:31:54 and read 66188 times.

Quoting melpax (Reply 98):
A young woman claims she was entertained in the cockpit for an entire flight back in 2011 by the co-pilot who was on board the Malaysian Airlines plane that went missing on Saturday.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...ers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot

Some interesting flight deck behaviou

I guess she was entertainedby the CPT rather than the then 25 y/o FO - surely the FO was not able to entertain passengers in the cockpit against the will of the CPT - and would most probably not have dared to stop his CPT if he felt it to be inappropriate.

Quoting dtfg (Reply 102):
Did anyone notice a problem of the photos released by Malaysian officials?

The lower body of the two guys looks exactly the same!

That's odd indeed.

[Edited 2014-03-11 02:33:51]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 02:33:43 and read 65738 times.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 99):

It's not easy to keep up with all the reports and speculations. Maybe somebody would be so kind to add FAQ section to thread #13, like in some of the earlier threads? I don't consider myself qualified, sorry.  
Quoting nm2582 (Reply 101):
I wonder how sensitive their equipment is

Hard to tell. But there might be monitoring stations in the immediate vicinity, at least closer than to the Kazakh or North Korean test sites. The newly established Tsunami Early Warning System also springs to mind.

[Edited 2014-03-11 02:36:01]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: redadeco
Posted 2014-03-11 02:33:52 and read 66148 times.

Quoting melpax (Reply 98):
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...ers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot

I'm literally running out of words after watching this video. In-flight smoking and teasing inside the cockpit, could be a potential scenario for adult movies producers to explore.

The least I could say is that MH is in a very awkward situation following all this chaos around MH370.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-11 02:35:43 and read 65455 times.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 103):
Overall though, I think people are making too much of these satellites. An explosion can be terribly small and bring down an airliner. It is more likely that the remains of said aircraft would be detectable by satellite-based sensors, not the initial explosion itself.

I think they are able to rule out high-altitude explosion based on the satellite network used to monitor ballistic missile launches. They probably are not able to detect an explosion resulting from a crash landing or a ditching due to intervening water vapour in the atmosphere, unless the explosion is pretty large.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: marosbts
Posted 2014-03-11 02:35:55 and read 65429 times.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 105):
also, you've said hijacking discredited- how so? Especially since the last press conference.

I meant that hijacking by the two fake passport holders has been IMHO discredited. If you consider that the plane was under control of one of the pilots as hijacking, then yes, one of the pilots could have hijacked the plane by himself and it is becoming one of the most likely scenarios at this time.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Asiaflyer
Posted 2014-03-11 02:36:12 and read 65205 times.

Quoting marosbts (Reply 95):
However based on the information provided or more to say - said between the lines, its more likely that one of the pilots just went nuts and took over the control once the other pilot went to the toilet. It makes me wonder if we due to these cases will see return of 3 men crews sooner or later.

More likely than what?
Not much indicates that any of the pilots were suiscidal candidates. Major technical failure on the plane is just as likely at this stage.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-11 02:36:42 and read 65394 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 107):

I think it is to have a complete picture of the austrian person rather to have only half his body on the picture.
Who cares his legs and shoes  

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: haynflyer
Posted 2014-03-11 02:37:05 and read 65411 times.

Quoting dtfg (Reply 102):
Did anyone notice a problem of the photos released by Malaysian officials?

The lower body of the two guys looks exactly the same!

I doubt that the photos were sort of artificially made up by officials, though I have no clue of their motives

LOL! I think the pants of the guy on the right was pasted on the lower half of the guy on the left. They didn't even bother to hide where the left guy's photo was spliced and left a big gap. The briefcase and lines on the floor are a dead giveaway.

I think this underscores the lack of professionalism in this whole operation. Geez, I wish they'd call in some professionals to do the job right and stop being so evasive about what they know.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-11 02:38:06 and read 65132 times.

Quoting dtfg (Reply 102):

you're right....

and its not just that. The picture posted before of the group of friends - they're wearing the exact same tops as in that previous photo. And have the satchels.

must've been taken same day?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: airevents
Posted 2014-03-11 02:40:06 and read 64780 times.

Just a - maybe a bit naive - question: Why is there no live broadcast (audio/video) from all flight decks to the airline's ops departments where all data gets recorded and stored for let's say 7 days? This should technically be feasible in modern aircraft, shouldn't it?
I know there might be concerns wrt privacy etc., but it could easily be ruled that all transmitted data might only be examined in cases like accidents etc.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2014-03-11 02:40:59 and read 64754 times.

So... just to put it out there. What do you think are the chances of the wreckage never being found? The aircraft went missing relatively close to land yet there are no traces of it... whatsoever.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 02:43:37 and read 64637 times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 91):
The ineptitude of the Malaysian authorities is quite astounding. If they know something, they should at least inform the families. By with witholding information they are making the pain and suffering even more intense than it needs to be.

What makes you think they're withholding information?

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 91):
For some reason the regime are paranoid...

What regime? Malaysia is a constitutional monarchy. Same as Norway incidentally.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 103):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
You could probably not do FL350 from the presumed loss of contact point though as primary radar can track. You could drop to 5000 feet until you get to open ocean and then climb again, but of course your fuel burn would go through the roof for those bits of the flight.

Not that I believe that mess of a story, but what 'primary' radar is anywhere near the Indian Ocean except for Diego Garcia and any naval ships there (which we wouldn't know about)? Also, the fuel burn during climb is a relatively small point. You're talking 20-30 minutes of flight and ~20-25,000 lbs. fuel, that includes takeoff. A second climb from 1000' or 5000' would use less.

Sorry. That's what I meant. Your fuel burn for the low bits of the flight (not long) would be through the roof. Then back to cruise.

Quoting windshear (Reply 104):

Quoting LO231 (Reply 92):
Is there any hope? Belgian news announced somebody's mobile on board still works, no answer... Cannot stop being upset

I've seen many Asians with their Iphone in water proof containers... Could be why...

Still wouldn't be able to contact it underwater.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-11 02:43:46 and read 64688 times.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 109):

yes indeed, that change my opinion aswell towards the cockpit crew on this flight. Quite shocking actually considering they are responsible for many lives and mean while doing other things in the cockpit then they should do. I was a strong believer that this flight brought down by a bomb. And that those two travelling with stolen passports had something to do with it, but now seeing this i would be surprised if it has something to do with the cockpit crew.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: redadeco
Posted 2014-03-11 02:43:52 and read 64802 times.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 115):
must've been taken same day?

Most likely, few moments before their departure to the airport.

The other two guys with them on the photo seem to be potential illegal migrants too who are waiting for their forged passports and tickets to be arranged by…Mr Ali 

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: marosbts
Posted 2014-03-11 02:45:10 and read 64381 times.

Quoting airevents (Reply 116):

Just a - maybe a bit naive - question: Why is there no live broadcast (audio/video) from all flight decks to the airline's ops departments where all data gets recorded and stored for let's say 7 days? This should technically be feasible in modern aircraft, shouldn't it?

This was explained before. Even if you would have such systems, due to safety the crew would always have the option to switch them off. Same way the crew has the option to pull the circuit breaker for the transponder or ACARS or any other electrically powered system. The systems on board of a plane have all evolved to provide maximum safety, but they can not prevent a situation where those systems are willingly switched of by the crew.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 02:47:11 and read 64236 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 96):
Makes no sense, if you see an unidentified aircraft at FL350 you aren't going to shoot it down, you will go and try identify the aircraft, also you would want to co-operate with local ATC.

There are at least two occurences of this happening with large passenger jets, albeit in very different places and situations.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: PanAmPaul
Posted 2014-03-11 02:53:05 and read 63319 times.

Meanwhile, the search is expanding on land in two areas according to the latest reports in addition to sea.

Search for Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet Expands to Land

Quote:
Authorities are intensifying the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines jetliner and expanding the search region to land three days after the plane vanished.

On Tuesday, Malaysia Airlines said that the Western coast of the country near the Straights of Malacca was “now the focus” of the investigation ...

.

Hopefully this mystery will be solved soon.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2014-03-11 02:58:18 and read 62547 times.

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 114):
I think the pants of the guy on the right was pasted on the lower half of the guy on the left. They didn't even bother to hide where the left guy's photo was spliced and left a big gap. The briefcase and lines on the floor are a dead giveaway.

I agree that some horrible splice or misprint job went on here.

Yet, look at the lower half of the left image in reply 71. They are actually from different frames of the same camera (probably a fraction of a second apart). Look at the angle of the right foot.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-11 03:03:21 and read 62117 times.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 120):

seems it was taken by another Iranian student living in Kuala Lumpur.

only difference between two photos is crucifix missing in airport photo of guy on right.

still, I'm puzzled as to how only one has been identified and the other not, considering the friend in KL has divulged info about both.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-11 03:04:56 and read 61749 times.

Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads?


Thanks and regards,

SA7700

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-11 03:05:47 and read 61610 times.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 124):
Yet, look at the lower half of the left image in reply 71. They are actually from different frames of the same camera (probably a fraction of a second apart). Look at the angle of the right foot.

No, the lower half of both pictures are the same. Look at the tiles and orientation of the feet. A printing problem I guess.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: aryonoco
Posted 2014-03-11 03:08:29 and read 60922 times.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 84):
And actually the guy on the far right is pretty smart, he looks Italian and to make immigration go blind he put on a cross necklace around his neck although he's a Muslim as his name Reza suggests.  

While the name Reza is a very common name in Iran, and obviously Iran is a majority Muslim country, just because someone's parents gave them the name Reza doesn't mean they are Muslim. That's like saying someone called Chris is necessarily Christian.

The fact that he is wearing the Cross, if anything, to me signifies that he is probably a convert to Christianity, hence why he is fleeing Iran (where conversion from Islam gets you a death sentence) and going for asylum.

I am certain that these guys had nothing to do with the plane disappearing.

[Edited 2014-03-11 03:10:38]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: speedbird203
Posted 2014-03-11 03:08:46 and read 61091 times.

My first theory was that the plane has been landed somewhere and was possibly a hijacking, But with lack of information and no one claiming responsibility i'm really starting to doubt that.

Every morning waking up i'm expecting to see some update on the news about it, However its just stayed the same.
Will be really interesting to find out what has happened & where the plane is now.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: canadiantree
Posted 2014-03-11 03:10:52 and read 60832 times.

Tuesday, March 11, 05:29 PM MYT +0800 Malaysia Airlines MH370 Flight Incident - 12th Media Statement

This statement is in reference to the many queries on the alleged five (5) passengers who checked-in but did not board MH370 on 8 March 2014 from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing despite having valid tickets to travel.

Malaysia Airlines wishes to clarify that there were four (4) passengers who had valid booking to travel on flight MH370, 8 March 2014, but did not show up to check-in for the flight.

As such, the issue of off-loading unaccompanied baggage did not arise, as the said four passengers did not check in for the flight. Hence, the above claim is untrue.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: westjet_737
Posted 2014-03-11 03:12:48 and read 60674 times.

Pure speculation here, but given what is seen on the Australian cockpit video, is it possible that an improperly discarded cigarette started a fire? Perhaps in a crew rest area or cockpit area?

This could have gone unnoticed initially, spread, and turned into something uncontrollable. The flight crew realizing their mistake, turned off the transponder and turned the flight around to buy time to fix the situation and perhaps create an explanation for it. However, in the end they lost the fight against the fire and the aircraft crashed somewhere after turning around?

This would explain the discredited "mumbling," the turn around, and why no mayday was issued.

This is only speculation, and I mean no disrespect, only offering an idea.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2014-03-11 03:12:54 and read 60438 times.

Quoting melpax (Reply 98):
A young woman claims she was entertained in the cockpit for an entire flight back in 2011

Thanks for sharing this one. I noticed that while the testimony looks honest, it have been exagerrated by the media at some stage. It was surprising, inviting "strangers" they met at the gate to sit at the jump-seat, and even in-flight smoking, seriously?

From the picture it looks like the flight was on a B734?? It looks like the Captain invited the ladies, not solely the F/O's idea, even if he objected to it, surely he won't go against a much more senior pilot on that flight. But I would be interested if Malaysia Airlines have found out about this earlier (before the disappearance of MH370) and probably considered a pending disciplinary action against both Captain and F/O?? I'm sure it would be interesting to see more background of the F/O on this flight.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: specks159
Posted 2014-03-11 03:13:11 and read 60704 times.

Apparently they have possible radar evidence that MH370 went west over land and out over the Strait of Malacca, last detected around Pulau Perak

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mh370-detec...acca-straits-2-40am-062617741.html

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: speedbird203
Posted 2014-03-11 03:16:27 and read 60091 times.

Quoting westjet_737 (Reply 121):

At the moment anything seems possible, But don't you think the pilots would of managed to send some sort of signal or transmit some kind of message.

I'm wondering as others have posted above if we are not being told as much as we could know.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: ChaosTheory
Posted 2014-03-11 03:17:37 and read 59955 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
Methinks a skilled pilot could stop a 777 on a runway shorter than 3000 feet.

Max reverse and max autobrake will get you down to 4000ft. Max manual braking will shave about 400ft off that.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 103):
You're talking 20-30 minutes of flight and ~20-25,000 lbs. fuel, that includes takeoff.

10 000lbs for takeoff and climb. Another 5000 lbs for 20min cruise.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: redadeco
Posted 2014-03-11 03:18:01 and read 60120 times.

"Christian Kozel, a 61 year old former masseur from Salzburg says his passport was stolen years ago in Thailand. A version of his passport was used by 19 year old Iranian Pouria Nour Mohammad Mehrdad to board the missing flight. "

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blo...ed-on-malacca-straits-live-updates

Since Mr. Kozel is 61 and the guy who used his passport Mr. Reza is only 19 and their face features are very different there is no single doubt that the passport in question has been altered.
Immigration authorities at KUL need to go on training.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: KingAir93
Posted 2014-03-11 03:18:37 and read 59849 times.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 125):
seems it was taken by another Iranian student living in Kuala Lumpur.

only difference between two photos is crucifix missing in airport photo of guy on right.

still, I'm puzzled as to how only one has been identified and the other not, considering the friend in KL has divulged info about both.

If you pay attention to the bag that both men are carrying, you will notice the similar red marking on the right side of the bag, that raises some suspicion possibly leading to that the bottoms of both aliens is photoshopped

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 03:22:27 and read 59271 times.

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 121):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
Methinks a skilled pilot could stop a 777 on a runway shorter than 3000 feet.

Max reverse and max autobrake will get you down to 4000ft. Max manual braking will shave about 400ft off that.

Thanks for the numbers. However those are "runway required" numbers right? They assume the mandated safety factor (required distance is 1.67x actual) and a height of 50 feet at the threshold. So if runway required is 4000 including safety factor it is only 2400 without. Therefore if the pilot manages 25 feet at the threshold the actual roll should be under 3000ft.

Not that I would recommend anyone try it!

[Edited 2014-03-11 03:24:24]

[Edited 2014-03-11 03:25:17]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: westjet_737
Posted 2014-03-11 03:22:41 and read 59279 times.

Quoting speedbird203 (Reply 121):
But don't you think the pilots would of managed to send some sort of signal or transmit some kind of message.

I was envisioning something that at the time that they were able to send the message, they didn't in a panic. Perhaps to try to avoid explaining what was happening. But things as worsened, they became unable to send the message (either incapacitated by the fire, or too busy dealing with the consequences.)

I don't think it is a likely scenario. Just a possibility given the new evidence.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-11 03:23:41 and read 59039 times.

Quoting KingAir93 (Reply 121):
If you pay attention to the bag that both men are carrying, you will notice the similar red marking on the right side of the bag, that raises some suspicion possibly leading to that the bottoms of both aliens is photoshopped

I doubt that. Most likely a printing error. Look at the line in between, typical for printing problems.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 03:24:12 and read 58815 times.

Quoting specks159 (Reply 120):

Apparently they have possible radar evidence that MH370 went west over land and out over the Strait of Malacca, last detected around Pulau Perak

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mh370-detec...acca-straits-2-40am-062617741.html

Could this solve the confusion about the conflicting time specifications by the authorities?

Quote:
"The last time the plane was detected was near Pulau Perak, in the Straits of Malacca, at 2.40am," Berita Harian quotes Rodzali as saying.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: ChaosTheory
Posted 2014-03-11 03:25:58 and read 58832 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 122):
They assume the mandated 30% safety margin and a height of 50 feet at the threshold.

Correct. Textbook and not cowboy numbers.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 03:28:48 and read 58816 times.

Quoting westjet_737 (Reply 115):
discarded cigarette started a fire? Perhaps in a crew rest area or cockpit area?

This could have gone unnoticed initially, spread, and turned into something uncontrollable. The flight crew realizing their mistake, turned off the transponder and turned the flight around to buy time to fix the situation and perhaps create an explanation for it. However, in the end they lost the fight against the fire and the aircraft crashed somewhere after turning around?

Ever since the British Airtours fire way a few decades ago it is 'very hard to set any fittings on fire in an aircraft. All the fabric and stuff is flame retardant. You might char or melt a small spot with a cigarette, but you couldn't start a fire with a cigarette.

Also, why would they turn off their transponder in this situation?

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 126):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 122):
They assume the mandated 30% safety margin and a height of 50 feet at the threshold.

Correct. Textbook and not cowboy numbers.

Absolutely. But if you're the very unlikely hypothetical hijacking pilot, you don't have to follow the rules and presumably you're willing to lay your life down for the cause. So you might try it. I just wanted to demonstrate that a sub-3000 foot runway is doable. Like so many other "doable" things in aviation though, not very clever.

[Edited 2014-03-11 03:30:55]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-11 03:30:14 and read 58426 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 124):

i do a lot of printing as part of my work, and I'm not sure what you're referring to. Unless one was stopped halfway and then the other started without changing paper, i cant see what you're getting at.

MHO- Photoshop. But why?

the bbc page showing the pics has truncated the picture to top half only...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26525281#TWEET1068199

[Edited 2014-03-11 03:33:25]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: speedbird203
Posted 2014-03-11 03:32:39 and read 58136 times.

Quoting westjet_737 (Reply 123):
I was envisioning something that at the time that they were able to send the message, they didn't in a panic. Perhaps to try to avoid explaining what was happening. But things as worsened, they became unable to send the message (either incapacitated by the fire, or too busy dealing with the consequences.)

I don't think it is a likely scenario. Just a possibility given the new evidence.

Quite possible, If they did panic and things progressed quite quickly it may of been hard to alert anyone.
I've just listened to the Interpol news conference live on BBC News & they have shared some information they are saying has not been discussed in the media. According to the conference the two passengers traveling on stolen passports were flying using Iranian ( i think ) passports prior to this flight. He also announced the names of those two in the hope someone can bring information of their new identity.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: aryonoco
Posted 2014-03-11 03:33:04 and read 58357 times.

You thought you had heard all of the conspiracy theories, hadn't you? Bet you not this one:


Hasan Naghavi, an Iranian MP who is also a member of the powerful Foreign Intelligence Committee of the Iranian Parliament has accused the United States of having hijacked the plane, to put the blame on Iran, to disrupt "Iran's growing ties with Southeast Asia".

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: gr325
Posted 2014-03-11 03:33:21 and read 58702 times.

Quote from Avherald:

On Mar 11th 2014 Malaysia's Air Force reported their primary radar data suggest, the aircraft may have turned west over the Gulf of Thailand at about 1000 meters/3000 feet below the original flight level and flown past the east coast near Khota Baru and the west coast of Malaysia near Kedah, the radar return was last seen at 02:40L near Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca, about 285nm westsouthwest of the last known (secondary) radar position.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2014-03-11 03:38:06 and read 57655 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 118):
Sorry. That's what I meant. Your fuel burn for the low bits of the flight (not long) would be through the roof. Then back to cruise.

How far through the roof? I just don't think as far as some people think.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: EI747SYDNEY
Posted 2014-03-11 03:39:57 and read 57326 times.

So shocking to think the plane has just vanished. So much wild speculation flying (no pun intended) around at the moment is really not healthy.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-11 03:40:55 and read 57123 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 96):
Why do you think they actually know anything more than we do? So far the fact they are searching from many different directions would indicatethey don't have a clear idea where exactly the plane went after disappearing from radar.

   They may simply be reluctant to mention unconfirmed theories or anything that might be seen as no more than a hunch. The first explanation for extending the search area to the west was that there was evidence that they may have turned back. I think it's a bit presumptuous to call it sinister.

Quoting westjet_737 (Reply 115):
This would explain the discredited "mumbling

I think the discrediting explains the discredited "mumbling".

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-11 03:46:31 and read 56462 times.

Quoting gr325 (Reply 131):
On Mar 11th 2014 Malaysia's Air Force reported their primary radar data suggest, the aircraft may have turned west over the Gulf of Thailand at about 1000 meters/3000 feet below the original flight level and flown past the east coast near Khota Baru and the west coast of Malaysia near Kedah, the radar return was last seen at 02:40L near Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca, about 285nm westsouthwest of the last known (secondary) radar position.

That's just bizarre... They had this bleep on their screen flying across the country and no jets were scrambled and the aircraft disappeared?

OK... if there's any merit to this story... what if it was shot down by the fighter jets?
I still think it's in the gulf of thailand somewhere. Just makes more sense.

[Edited 2014-03-11 03:47:12]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: thunderboltdrgn
Posted 2014-03-11 03:49:37 and read 56092 times.

From the Guardian:

Quote:
Interpol: suspect passengers 'probably not terrorists'

Noble played down speculation that the two Iranians were terrorists. “There has been great
speculation about whether or not this was a terrorist attack,” he told reporters.

The Interpol chief added: “Already in the last 24 hours you see the story changing as the
belief becomes more certain that these individuals were probably not terrorists.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/blo...tes#block-531ee760e4b025518d900a65

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: PanAmPaul
Posted 2014-03-11 03:51:25 and read 56040 times.

Now the military is saying it tracked the jet to the Strait of Malacca.

Military Tracked Malaysia Airlines Jet to Strait of Malacca


Quote:
Malaysia Airlines Tuesday said that the Western coast of the country near the Strait of Malacca was “now the focus” of the investigation after the Malaysian military said it had tracked the plane by radar over the Strait of Malacca, one of the world’s busiest shipping channels....

.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-11 03:51:44 and read 55830 times.

If the aircraft made the turn deliberately and not because of an emergency, I am wondering if the area where it happened was chosen for a particular reason, e.g. an area where the responsibilities of different countries sort of meet or where detection is particularly difficult

Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 137):
Now the military is saying it tracked the jet to the Strait of Malacca.

Military Tracked Malaysia Airlines Jet to Strait of Malacca

Near Pulau Perak, which means it must have travelled a couple of hundred miles and passed through Thai airspace at some point.... Bizarre.


Quoting gr325 (Reply 131):
On Mar 11th 2014 Malaysia's Air Force reported their primary radar data suggest, the aircraft may have turned west over the Gulf of Thailand at about 1000 meters/3000 feet below the original flight level and flown past the east coast near Khota Baru and the west coast of Malaysia near Kedah, the radar return was last seen at 02:40L near Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca, about 285nm westsouthwest of the last known (secondary) radar position.

Is that radar data that needed to be retrieved or radar data that was visible as it happened? I find it difficult to believe that live radar data showing an unidentified aircraft making a turn and heading towards Malaysia would not provoke some sort of reaction.

Quoting redadeco (Reply 120):
Since Mr. Kozel is 61 and the guy who used his passport Mr. Reza is only 19 and their face features are very different there is no single doubt that the passport in question has been altered.

According to the passenger manifest, Mr. Kozel was 30, so the birth date obviously was altered.

[Edited 2014-03-11 03:57:46]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: OV735
Posted 2014-03-11 03:52:55 and read 55727 times.

Quoting gr325 (Reply 131):
Quote from Avherald:

On Mar 11th 2014 Malaysia's Air Force reported their primary radar data suggest, the aircraft may have turned west over the Gulf of Thailand at about 1000 meters/3000 feet below the original flight level and flown past the east coast near Khota Baru and the west coast of Malaysia near Kedah, the radar return was last seen at 02:40L near Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca, about 285nm westsouthwest of the last known (secondary) radar position.

As wild and irrational as it sounds, and as unprobable it has been ruled by the lot here after previous speculation, I'm thinking more and more about why are we so certain that we have to look for a wreckage?

There is as little proof about the aircraft crashing as there is about it not crashing.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-11 03:54:12 and read 55120 times.

Quoting gr325 (Reply 131):

only 3000 feet below original FL?

Doesn't sound uncontrolled or unpowered to me.

incapacitation and autopilot on heading previously set, perhaps?

or highjacking. This gets more and more bizarre by the hour.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: tkukucka
Posted 2014-03-11 03:56:07 and read 54757 times.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/359411/Strait-of-Malacca

Not sure if this has been posted here before
According to this the strait is between 90-650ft deep

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-11 03:56:24 and read 54613 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 135):
OK... if there's any merit to this story... what if it was shot down by the fighter jets?

Malaysia isn't Soviet Union during its most paranoid times or a war zone, I can't see why anyone would possibly shoot down a jetliner cruising at 35k feet.

I wonder if it could have ended up in some remote forest of Sumatra... Or possibly flown even past Sumatra & ended up somewhere in vast Indian Ocean.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 140):
incapacitation and autopilot on heading previously set, perhaps?

This is an interesting possibility... Maybe they tried to turn back to Kuala Lumpur doe to some kind of serious failure, then somehow got incapacitated and the aircraft just kept flying the selected heading.

Now the question is, if that's what happened how far did the aircraft fly? If the last radar return wasn't where the aircraft actually impacted the surface & if the autopilot stayed on it would have had fuel to fly quite far away...

I wonder if this could have gone a bit like Helios 522.

[Edited 2014-03-11 04:32:44]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: jetfuel
Posted 2014-03-11 04:00:15 and read 54359 times.

http://mobile.news.com.au/world/miss...light/story-fndir2ev-1226850952131

CO-PILOT at the controls of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 invited a Melbourne tourist and her friend into the cockpit where he smoked, took photos and entertained the pair during a previous international flight.

In a worrying lapse of security, it’s been revealed pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid and his colleague broke Malaysia Airline rules when they invited passengers Jonti Roos and Jaan Maree to join them in the cabin for the one-hour flight from Phuket to Kuala Lumpur.

Ms Roos, who is travelling around Australia, told A Current Affair she and Ms Maree posed for pictures with the pilots, who smoked cigarettes during the midair rendez-vous.

“Throughout the entire flight they were talking to us and they were actually smoking throughout the flight which I don’t think they’re allowed to do,” Ms Roos said.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-11 04:05:28 and read 53337 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 142):
I wonder if it could have ended up in some remote forest of Sumatra... Or possibly flown even past Sumatra & ended up somewhere in vast Indian Ocean.

Sure. But why?

Makes no sense in case of an emergency to continue past Malaysia / Thailand.
Makes no sense in case of a hijacking to never show up anywhere.
Makes (little) sense in case of a suicide to not do it straightaway once control gained over the cockpit.

To me, the most likely scenario is - if the flight indeed went as far as Pulau Preak - that we are faced with a Helios 522 situation. Still inexplicable though why it lost all communiatio as that points more towards a sudden crash or a deliberate act.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-11 04:05:44 and read 53349 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 142):
Malaysia isn't Soviet Union during its most paranoid times or a war zone, I can't see why anyone would possibly shoot down a jetliner cruising at 35k feet.

I'm not sure if Soviet Union ever shot down a civil plane, but USA did (or some people claim they did), so what's your point?

[Edited 2014-03-11 04:07:26]

Ok, the Soviets did shoot down a civil jet trespassing prohibited Soviet airspace. USA maybe shoot down one of the hijacked planes. Military would shoot down a jet if it was a threat, that's the whole point. Cold war or not.


[Edited 2014-03-11 04:12:02]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: marosbts
Posted 2014-03-11 04:05:58 and read 53305 times.

Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 137):
Malaysia Airlines Tuesday said that the Western coast of the country near the Strait of Malacca was “now the focus” of the investigation after the Malaysian military said it had tracked the plane by radar over the Strait of Malacca, one of the world’s busiest shipping channels....

If they continued at this heading, they could be lost anywhere in the indian ocean. And without further clues, it will be very very difficult to find the aircraft.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: OV735
Posted 2014-03-11 04:07:56 and read 53243 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 145):
I'm not sure if Soviet Union ever shot down a civil plane, but USA did, so what's your point?

The soviets were responsible for the most publicized shootdown ever, of the KAL007.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: redadeco
Posted 2014-03-11 04:08:13 and read 53277 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 145):
I'm not sure if Soviet Union ever shot down a civil plane, but USA did, so what's your point?

KE007, 1983  

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: westjet_737
Posted 2014-03-11 04:09:15 and read 52683 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 127):
Ever since the British Airtours fire way a few decades ago it is 'very hard to set any fittings on fire in an aircraft. All the fabric and stuff is flame retardant. You might char or melt a small spot with a cigarette, but you couldn't start a fire with a cigarette.

Also, why would they turn off their transponder in this situation?

Perhaps a it started in a bag or garbage can? I guess it would require outside items to feed the initial spread. I would also assume then that the relative low-heat fire caused in these situations would probably not ignite anything in the cabin either?

There is no good reason to turn off the transponder. Other than in a panic to try to hide their actions and begin the turn back without being asked why. Or it was turned off by accident. The new information seems to indicate that the turn back did occur after all.

This is just an exercise in speculation. I am not promoting this as a likely theory, but it's better then aliens.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: TC-MNC
Posted 2014-03-11 04:10:31 and read 52586 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 145):
I'm not sure if Soviet Union ever shot down a civil plane, but USA did, so what's your point?

KAL 007 ?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-11 04:11:26 and read 52578 times.

Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 137):
Now the military is saying it tracked the jet to the Strait of Malacca.

And what took them 3 days to detect that? More important occupation?

Quoting OV735 (Reply 139):
There is as little proof about the aircraft crashing as there is about it not crashing.

While that is right, there are few places where a 777 could land in that region, especially at night. A midsized and well lit place is the minimum - for a well-trained pilot. And those are easily known.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 143):

I see MAS management getting very angry. And potential passengers pretty much shocked.

From flightglobal:
""All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with continuous data monitoring system called ACARS which transmits data automatically," says MAS. "Nevertheless, there were no distress calls and no information was relayed."
"Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation is examining ACARS data from the missing aircraft, but senior DCA officials declined to comment on their findings, if any. They also declined to say when ACARS data from flight MH370 will be released – or even if it will be."
"transport press conference scheduled for 1100 was cancelled, apparently indefinitely. According to the Twitter account of acting transport minister Hishamuddin Hussein, he instead embarked on one of the search and rescue flights looking for the aircraft in the Straits of Malacca on Malaysia’s west coast."
That sounds suspicious.

[Edited 2014-03-11 04:15:26]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: don
Posted 2014-03-11 04:14:34 and read 52182 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 145):
I'm not sure if Soviet Union ever shot down a civil plane,
Quoting redadeco (Reply 148):
KE007, 1983

And
Korean Air 902 in 1978
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: murchmo
Posted 2014-03-11 04:15:26 and read 52304 times.

Interesting they initially said 2:40am then immediately changed it to the widely discussed 1:30am. Now with the release of radar info of it in the Malaccan Straight they go back to 2:40am. This is worth questioning. This keeps getting weirder.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: damirc
Posted 2014-03-11 04:15:38 and read 52522 times.

So let me surmise what we now know.

01:20L - ADS-B gets turned off, MH370 stops communicating with ATC
02:40L - MH370 vanishes from military radar (providing the target was MH370) near Palau Perak, MY in the Straits of Malacca

This fills the gap why on the first day they sad they've lost contact at 2:40L (the first "official" story was that that is when the SAR efforts was initiated. We now learn that they've tracked it until then!) What the heck? If the unknown primary target was MH370 (and I'm pretty sure they've had ample time to check and recheck in the mean time) they've wasted a lot of resources to search in the completely wrong spot.

D.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-11 04:15:58 and read 52422 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 144):
To me, the most likely scenario is - if the flight indeed went as far as Pulau Preak - that we are faced with a Helios 522 situation. Still inexplicable though why it lost all communiatio as that points more towards a sudden crash or a deliberate act.

Yes, that's what I thought, Helios 522. A serious failure of some kind -> They turned back towards Malaysia with autopilot still on -> They got incapacitated -> The autopilot kept flying the plane?

If they don't find any parts in next couple of days I think they could as well start looking from parts of Indian Ocean, based on the last known heading of the aircraft

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-11 04:17:14 and read 52080 times.

Quoting TC-MNC (Reply 150):
And what took them 3 days to detect that? More important occupation?

I think they have suspected it all the time, otherwise they would not have started the search west of Malaysia. Maybe they now have gotten confirmation from the radar manufacturer (or someone in similar position) who has examined the radar recordings in detail.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 04:17:25 and read 52075 times.

Why the delay in reporting the correct last position?

32K feet would not explain those witnesses reporting an unusually low flight.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: murchmo
Posted 2014-03-11 04:17:48 and read 52291 times.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/m...t-tracked-mh370-to-malacca-straits

"This is also supported with police reports made by some east coast residents, who claimed that they have seen huge lights and a plane flying at some 1000 metres above sea level off Kota Baru."

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Julian773
Posted 2014-03-11 04:17:50 and read 52548 times.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 143):
jetfuel

Very unprofessional actions by the flight crew. The content of the video also confirms that the F/O indeed transitioned from the 737classic/NG to the 777.

Quoting na (Reply 151):


I see MAS management getting very angry. And potential passengers pretty much shocked.

Oh i agree. This looks very bad for MAS. Inviting non company employees into the flight deck and smoking. I wonder what MAS would have done if they would have seen this footage before the crash.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-11 04:19:25 and read 51674 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 155):
Yes, that's what I thought, Helios 522. A serious failure of some kind -> They turned back towards Malaysia with autopilot still on -> They got incapacitated -> The autopilot kept flying the plane?

A possible scenario, but it doesn't explain why the transponder was turned off or failed and why there were no ACARS messages related to the loss of cabin pressure.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: thunderboltdrgn
Posted 2014-03-11 04:19:31 and read 51497 times.

Quoting murchmo (Reply 153):
Interesting they initially said 2:40am then immediately changed it to the widely discussed 1:30am. Now with the release of radar info of it in the Malaccan Straight they go back to 2:40am. This is worth questioning. This keeps getting weirder.

This is could be due to time zone differences. 01.30 Vietnam time is 02.30 Malaysia time.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-11 04:19:49 and read 51630 times.

Quoting na (Reply 151):
And what took them 3 days to detect that? More important occupation?

They've been searching that area for a while now, so I would say no, it took them 3 days to tell the public about it. I don't know why they're being so secretive.

I did say that PSR is going to paint a more complete picture and that military will have the best one. Now, with this information, this changes everything. Where the hell is that plane?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 04:20:22 and read 51544 times.

The transponder would not be turned off in any "regular" incapacitation scenario.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 04:22:08 and read 51415 times.

Quoting murchmo (Reply 158):
"This is also supported with police reports made by some east coast residents, who claimed that they have seen huge lights and a plane flying at some 1000 metres above sea level off Kota Baru."

The claim seems to be 3K feet below normal, not 3K feet. That is, 32K feet.

You'd probably hit something at 3K feet and not make it to the straights.

[Edited 2014-03-11 04:22:48]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-11 04:25:02 and read 50609 times.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 144):
To me, the most likely scenario is - if the flight indeed went as far as Pulau Preak - that we are faced with a Helios 522 situation. Still inexplicable though why it lost all communiatio as that points more towards a sudden crash or a deliberate act.

There indeed is some similarity. In this case originating in a structural failure of some kind disabling the transmitter and incapacitating the crew.

Quoting murchmo (Reply 158):
"This is also supported with police reports made by some east coast residents, who claimed that they have seen huge lights and a plane flying at some 1000 metres above sea level off Kota Baru."

At which time, thats crucial, and if its an unusual sighting which doesnt happen normally at that time. Otherwise its worthless.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-11 04:25:58 and read 50708 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 142):

i think this is most likely scenario- something knocked out comms and eventually lead to incapacitating the crew.

I'm going with fumes of some sort from a fire in radio comms- because 1hr20mins is a long way to fly with a fire.

although that still doesn't explain lack of communication as turn was initiated- whatever happened, i don't think it was violently catastrophic.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-11 04:26:52 and read 50170 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 164):
You'd probably hit something at 3K feet and not make it to the straights.

I think the are hills up to 1800m high between west and east coast.

[Edited 2014-03-11 04:28:22]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 04:27:28 and read 50215 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 162):
They've been searching that area for a while now, so I would say no, it took them 3 days to tell the public about it. I don't know why they're being so secretive.

But at the same time, to devote much need SAR resources in the Gulf of Thailand shows they're not certain ... perhaps! Compared to AF447 and the availability of hard data early on, the lack of transparency and confusion here does not help at all.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-11 04:28:03 and read 50242 times.

Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 137):
Now the military is saying it tracked the jet to the Strait of Malacca.

Heading straight towards SOMALIA! You couldn't make this up..

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-11 04:28:11 and read 50200 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 160):
A possible scenario, but it doesn't explain why the transponder was turned off or failed and why there were no ACARS messages related to the loss of cabin pressure.

True, it's really weird. I can't see why someone would want to hijack the aircraft and fly it over Indian Ocean.

Based on positions reported so far to me it would seem like the aircraft was flying more or less towards Maldives, I wonder if it could have reached African coast if it kept flying until running out of fuel.

At least based on Google Earth it would seem like it was heading towards Maldives:

http://s7.postimg.org/wvkd7jq0r/777course.jpg



[Edited 2014-03-11 04:34:56]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 04:28:19 and read 49967 times.

Can you safely cross back over Malaysia at 3K feet?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-11 04:28:44 and read 50284 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 160):
why there were no ACARS messages related to the loss of cabin pressure.

According to flightglobal MAS may have a "cheap" ACARS contract were data is only transmitted every 30 minutes or so.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-11 04:32:32 and read 49707 times.

If we assume that no hijacking happened, but rather something like electrical failure, what's the most probable scenario given that the whole route to PEK is programmed in the FMC?

Could it happen that an air crew, after recovering from a technical problem, initially sets the autopilot to speed: hold & heading: hold & altitude: hold, and completely forgets to use the FMC course - and thus travelling all the way eastwards over the peninsula? And also forgets to put the transponder back on?

(This would assume that they didn't watch either the true or magnetic heading - magnetic declination in that area is 0°, like in Europe.)


David

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 04:38:02 and read 48421 times.

Why would they not search out farther along that track?

Would other radar sites have seen the plane given this new track?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: aw70
Posted 2014-03-11 04:39:31 and read 48314 times.

Long time lurker, finally registered to join the discussion on this topic.

If the information about MH370 dropping by 3000 feet, *then* turning back, and then overflying the peninsula towards the Indian Ocean are indeed correct, this would in my opinion strongly suggest a scenario where deliberate action was taken by one of the two original pilots. Or at least someone who got more training than just flying circuits on a Cessna.

For which motive such deliberate action was taken, we can only guess. But the facts seem to be in favour of this version right now. The main reasons why I am saying this are:

- It is very hard to imagine a Helios-type malfunction that simultaneously and immediately zaps all comms and the transponder (! - that did not happen on the Helios flight), but still allows them authority to turn back while *only* dropping 3000 feet. And then staying stable and on course for such a long distance. The sightings of large aircraft at low level in the Malacca strait are as of now unconfirmed. In this regard, it would help a lot if the Malaysian military was not so un-forthcoming with information about what exactly they saw that night.

- If you think about it, dropping about 3000 feet is pretty much what you should be doing if you want to take an a/c rogue in densely traveled airspace, and have to change course to almost double back. If you go much lower, the a/c becomes much less efficient (critical if you want to go anywhere in particular, far away). If you stay the same altitude, you might end up as the bonnet decoration of some other, oncoming traffic, which tend to be much on the same altitude while travelling the same airway (not exactly, but close).

- The a/c had plenty range to fly out over the peninsula to the other side, over the Indian Ocean until all primary radar coverage was certainly lost, and then head off north or south to either somewhere in Indonesia or Bangladesh. Or to one of the many islands.

- Alternatively, if the pilot in command wanted to commit suicide in a spot where there is a genuine chance that nothing will ever be found (i.e. in the middle of the Indian Ocean), this would also be the way to do it. Why anyone would go to such lengths to do something like that is completely beyond be. But if you want an untraceable suicide by aircraft, this would be a way to do it.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: redadeco
Posted 2014-03-11 04:40:36 and read 47786 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 171):

Can you safely cross back over Malaysia at 3K feet?

No I don't think so because there are many >2000m summits across the peninsula.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-11 04:46:04 and read 47225 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 162):
They've been searching that area for a while now, so I would say no, it took them 3 days to tell the public about it. I don't know why they're being so secretive.

It's sounded all along to me that the evidence wasn't so positive that there was no doubt. Given that they wouldn't initially have expected the flight to be anywhere near the west coast, they may have needed some investigation to determine whether or not to follow that lead. At this point I'd tend to call it cautious rather than secretive.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-11 04:46:50 and read 47390 times.

From the guardian latest

Earlier on Tuesday, Malaysia's Berita Harian newspaper quoted air force chief Rodzali Daud as saying the Malaysia Airlines plane was last detected by military radar at 2:40 a.m. on Saturday, near the island of Pulau Perak at the northern end of the Strait of Malacca. It was flying at a height of about 9,000 metres (29,500 ft), he was quoted as saying.

so there's a loss of 2,500 feet from when they turned at 32,000 ft. Significance, if any?

does it discount an autopilot heading for holding altitude?

edit- that heading really does make a straight line to Somalia. Not suggesting that's what's happened, but out of all of the possible straight line destinations....

how much is actually, not hypothesized, known about fuel on board the plane?

[Edited 2014-03-11 04:59:01]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Voodoo
Posted 2014-03-11 04:48:04 and read 46903 times.

There does seem to be a layer of subtle censorship from the Malaysian govt. Perhaps its subtlety is due to a lack of certainty on their part and the feeling they have to at least appear in control. The plane turned around, as now seems evident, at the time of reaching cruise, at the vulnerable point when one pilot may head for the toilet.
The govt.may be worried if questions arise as to an apparent total unpreparedness in case it could have then headed for the KL CBD/Petronas Towers etc. Does Malaysia even have an ADIZ or an intercept SOP?
If it ended up as 'United 93' did, then the govt. needs time to formulate answers even as the answers start to come through on their own.

[Edited 2014-03-11 04:58:24]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-11 04:51:30 and read 46411 times.

but if they were flying so low for a while, why nobody used their cellphones?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Voodoo
Posted 2014-03-11 04:53:12 and read 45950 times.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 178):

so there's a loss of 2,500 feet from when they turned at 32,000 ft. Significance, if any?

Below other aircraft in area at cruise of 30k+ is my guess.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-11 04:53:43 and read 46096 times.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 180):
but if they were flying so low for a while, why nobody used their cellphones?

I think they lost around 3000ft or so from their original altitude rather than flying at 3000ft. So they were still somewhere around 30 000ft...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Asiaflyer
Posted 2014-03-11 04:56:08 and read 45788 times.

Quoting damirc (Reply 154):
02:40L - MH370 vanishes from military radar (providing the target was MH370) near Palau Perak, MY in the Straits of Malacca

This fills the gap why on the first day they sad they've lost contact at 2:40L (the first "official" story was that that is when the SAR efforts was initiated. We now learn that they've tracked it until then!) What the heck? If the unknown primary target was MH370 (and I'm pretty sure they've had ample time to check and recheck in the mean time) they've wasted a lot of resources to search in the completely wrong spot.


When it vanishes from the military radar, it unfortunately seems to be the point where it crashed. You can turn off ACARS during flight, but you cant go stealth.
This together with the observations from ground that the plane possiblt was seen flying low across the peninsula points in the same direction.
Current in the straights of Malacca is very strong, makes it much more difficult to find debris this long after. As you say, time could have been wasted.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: klebert
Posted 2014-03-11 04:57:13 and read 45420 times.

The NYT reports this morning that apparently all threads with the fake passports have been explained and terrorism on that end has been ruled out (illegal immigration attempt by an Iranian citizen into Germany being one of them).

Every explanation regarding some sort of technical or catastrophic failure has flaws (debris field missing, no communication, controlled flight without human or technical communication away from flight route but 'under the radar', etc.).
Terrorism makes no sense given the setting and the lack of any public announcement by any group.

I have looked through most reputable news sources in the US, UK, and Germany (in other words excluding CNN, The Sun, FoxNews, etc.) and I cannot find anything about the pilots other than 'co-pilot 27 years old', 'experienced pilot'.

Unless I would consider taking for a fact that the combined search efforts of at least 6 or 7 countries are completely incompetent, or there is a massive conspiracy, I fail to understand why the MS990 or SilkAir 185 aspects are not investigated more closely at least by now. Looking especially at MS990 and the role the Egyptian authorities played in the investigation regarding their state-owned airline, it would explain the silence (as far as I can tell) of the Malaysian authorities.

But maybe I am missing some article or thread. So, does anybody have a reputable(!) link to more information on the cockpit crew or down that line of thinking?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-11 04:57:30 and read 45375 times.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 180):
but if they were flying so low for a while, why nobody used their cellphones?

Because all seemed normal for the passengers.

In the AF447 case, no F/A informed the pilots of anything... no mention of "some passengers complained about bad turbulence".

This would speak against a hijacking.

Edit: Do MH's 777s have moving map displays, thus giving the pax a clue about the huge detour?

Quoting aw70 (Reply 175):

Welcome, aw70!

I was also a long-time lurker, and it's AF447 that glued me to a.net. There's MUCH to learn from people like Starlionblue, Pihero, pilotaydin, rfields and a dozen other people...


David

[Edited 2014-03-11 04:59:53]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-11 04:58:21 and read 44846 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 182):

sorry i forgot to say that i said this to possible rule out hijacking or the flight crew flying the plane somewhere else etc, it wouldnt make sence in my opinion.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: OV735
Posted 2014-03-11 05:02:49 and read 44338 times.

Quoting na (Reply 151):
While that is right, there are few places where a 777 could land in that region, especially at night. A midsized and well lit place is the minimum - for a well-trained pilot. And those are easily known.

I agree that a runway with an absolute minimum of 1200-1500 metres in lenght and 30 metres in width is required, not to mention a good weight tolerance. I don't have any knowledge to say how many of such airfields are in the range of that particular aircraft with that particular fuel and weight configuration and flight profile, but my guess is that there are hundreds.

My reasoning for doubting if the aircraft has crashed is simple. Given the new information about the A/C appearing as a PSR target an hour and twenty minutes after the SSR target disappeared, it's clear to me that the plane is in a flyable condition, eg no fuel leak, no fire, no in-flight breakup. Whether any of the people on board were alive and conscious or not, is not known of course. Again the evidence to support either theory is thin and circumstantial.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 166):
i think this is most likely scenario- something knocked out comms and eventually lead to incapacitating the crew.

I'm going with fumes of some sort from a fire in radio comms- because 1hr20mins is a long way to fly with a fire.

although that still doesn't explain lack of communication as turn was initiated- whatever happened, i don't think it was violently catastrophic.

I find this plausible, however in this case, 1) while the transponder and radio equipment malfunctioned, the autopilot must have stayed operational and 2) the crew would still have been able to use crew oxygen and gotten lower than FL320 (which is what the PSR data seems to suggest) in a hurry to get back to the ground on the suspicion of an on-board fire. A possible explanation is that even with oxygen supply, the fumes disabled the eyesight of the crew as well, rendering them incapable of action.

If this is the case, the entire search effort is in the wrong part of the planet. We have the loadsheet and operational flight plan with fuel figures in KUL, we have the estimated fuel burn figures, we have the estimated track of the aircraft based on the last SSR position and the PSR track, and we have the upper wind charts for the period. It should all add up to a vector that points to a possible area where the aircraft might have impacted the ocean after fuel starvation (I'd estimate somewhere between the southward projections of the southern tip of the Indian peninsula and the eastern tip of the Horn of Africa.

Given the size of the possible area, the oceanic currents and the fact that more than four days have passed, it's obviously going to be like finding a needle in a haystack.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-11 05:04:01 and read 43988 times.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 178):
at 2:40 a.m. on Saturday, near the island of Pulau Perak at the northern end of the Strait of Malacca

Totally off planned route....!!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-11 05:04:15 and read 44083 times.

If they went West over Malaysia towards Malacca, how come outward traffic from KUL didn't notice MS370 in their vicinity?

I guess Radar on board can detect other flying objects around them (obviously up to certain radius around)?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 05:05:36 and read 43843 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 135):
They had this bleep on their screen flying across the country and no jets were scrambled and the aircraft disappeared?

It takes time for these alerts to filter through and you can't scramble for every lost comms situation because they do happen not too infrequently. While "across the country" sounds like a long way, the Malaysian peninsula is rather narrow. Short flight at cruise speeds. By the time you start really worrying, an airliner would already be across.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 145):
Military would shoot down a jet if it was a threat, that's the whole point. Cold war or not.

You have to establish that it's a threat first. Posit the following hypothetical scenario. A 777 from the national airline, registered in Malaysia, disappears from radar over Malaysian airspace. Are you worried? Not really. "Probably just a malfunction". "It's our own guys." 25 minutes later you can't find it. Now you start worrying, but by then it could be over the Straits of Malacca. You didn't scramble fighters yet because as threat scenarios go, a 777 from the national airline dropping off radar would rank rather low. Any observers are probably still thinking comms or radar malfunction.

Quoting westjet_737 (Reply 149):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 127):
Ever since the British Airtours fire way a few decades ago it is 'very hard to set any fittings on fire in an aircraft. All the fabric and stuff is flame retardant. You might char or melt a small spot with a cigarette, but you couldn't start a fire with a cigarette.

Also, why would they turn off their transponder in this situation?

Perhaps a it started in a bag or garbage can? I guess it would require outside items to feed the initial spread. I would also assume then that the relative low-heat fire caused in these situations would probably not ignite anything in the cabin either?

You might build a fire with paper and stuff in a garbage receptacle, but it would take a lot to actually make it dangerous to the plane. Pax and crew would notice and extinguish. If in a bathroom there are fire alarms. In the cockpit the flight crew would notice.

Cargo fires, on the other hand, are an entirely different kettle of fish. A nightmare scenario.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 173):
Could it happen that an air crew, after recovering from a technical problem, initially sets the autopilot to speed: hold & heading: hold & altitude: hold, and completely forgets to use the FMC course - and thus travelling all the way eastwards over the peninsula? And also forgets to put the transponder back on?

I can somewhat buy disorientation from hypoxia, but not turning the transponder off.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 185):
There's MUCH to learn from people like Starlionblue, Pihero, pilotaydin, rfields and a dozen other people...

Thank you flyingturtle. That's very flattering. I would note, however that I would not consider myself even a junior member of the experienced pilot and tech group. Some of those guys have been flying for forty years! I've been a member for over ten years, and I learned very many things here on airliners.nut, but I have only recently taken my pilot's licenses in the real world. I am happy to plod along and share but I am frequently lacking in depth of knowledge that comes from experience and the more advanced licenses.

[Edited 2014-03-11 05:10:37]

[Edited 2014-03-11 05:12:09]

[Edited 2014-03-11 05:14:20]

[Edited 2014-03-11 05:16:48]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-11 05:06:09 and read 43999 times.

So, what he have now is a statement from the authorities that indicates a radar return travelling from this flights last known position, over Malaysia and out of radar contact over the Indian Ocean.

If that radar return was indeed the missing 777, I can only think of two explanations: Incapacitation of all on board or a silent hijacking.

[Edited 2014-03-11 05:19:45]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: traveladdict
Posted 2014-03-11 05:07:10 and read 43891 times.

What does everyone make of this?

http://mh370lost.tumblr.com/?og=1

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 05:07:10 and read 43651 times.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 180):
but if they were flying so low for a while, why nobody used their cellphones?

Or if this route is correct, what did they say to the passengers ... does Malaysian's AVOD have a live flight map (I checked their website and it seems a comprehensive system but doesn't specifically mention a live map)?

In many cultures in Asia loss of face is a big issue, I am wondering if the military know what happened and are buying time.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-11 05:08:46 and read 43053 times.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 189):
I guess Radar on board can detect other flying objects around them (obviously up to certain radius around)?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Brazier-Aviation-Images



No, but airliners certainly can't do that. This detection (TCAS) relies on ADS-B broadcasts (which were turned off in MH370). Airliners only have weather radars which are unsuited to detect other aircraft.

Edit: Plus the radar altimeter, which *could* detect a plane flying beneath you. Big grin



David

[Edited 2014-03-11 05:12:51]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: imatams
Posted 2014-03-11 05:10:41 and read 42718 times.

I'm thinking that right now 2 very distinct scenario's are emerging:

The 'eastern' scenario: The aircraft did NOT cross the Malay peninsula and did indeed come down in the Gulf of Thailand/ South China Sea. In this case any speculation of what caused it is just that, other than it must have been a sudden and catastrophic event

The 'western' scenario: The aircraft DID cross the peninsula in (some sort of) controlled flight. In this case, to me, all reasons other than foul play seem VERY far-fetched to me. Then we would have to assume ALL radio, ACARS, and ADS-B failed but the aircraft was able to maintain level flight. No attempt at landing was made even though suitable airports were not far off.

With the fake passport link to terrorism how pretty much dismissed by everyone including Interpol, and the awareness of what hijackers can and will do after 9/11, I find it hard to imagine a 'western' scenario without some sort of foul play by the flight crew. At least one that doesn't include very far-fetched assuptions.

That said, reality has often proven stranger than fiction, so who knows.. Although I must say I can't see it having ended with some kind of landing somewhere. You can't land a 777 in a field and cover it with a tarpaulin.. you need a good-sized runway for that..

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-11 05:10:47 and read 42328 times.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 183):
When it vanishes from the military radar, it unfortunately seems to be the point where it crashed. You can turn off ACARS during flight, but you cant go stealth.

What if the aircraft simply flew out of that military radar's range?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: michi
Posted 2014-03-11 05:12:09 and read 42322 times.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 189):
I guess Radar on board can detect other flying objects around them (obviously up to certain radius around)?

No! The "radar" on board of civilian aircraft is a weather radar only.

The system for collision avoidance (TCAS) is using transponder information or ADS-B/C data. This system wasn't working anymore for whatever reason on MH370.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: klebert
Posted 2014-03-11 05:12:12 and read 42330 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 193):
In many cultures in Asia loss of face is a big issue, I am wondering if the military know what happened and are buying time.

Not just in Asia. Again, look at MS990 and the reaction throughout by the Egyptian authorities. I think it has more to do with gvmt-owned entities (airlines in this case), status of 'flagship airline', etc. than with culture.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 05:12:37 and read 42352 times.

Quoting traveladdict (Reply 192):
What does everyone make of this?

http://mh370lost.tumblr.com/?og=1

200ER not listed in the Boeing doc, iirc.

"This AD applies to The Boeing Company Model 777-200, -200LR, -
300, -300ER, and -777F series airplanes, certificated in any
category, as identified in Boeing Alert Service Bulletin 777-
53A0068, dated June 12, 2013."

[Edited 2014-03-11 05:13:17]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 05:14:12 and read 41869 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 196):
What if the aircraft simply flew out of that military radar's range?

Yeah, that's why I wondered about the search not extending along the track.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-11 05:15:03 and read 41524 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 194):
This detection (TCAS) relies on ADS-B broadcasts

No it doesnt. TCAS is independant of ADS-B. TCAS functions off a regular Mode-A/C transponder...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: aw70
Posted 2014-03-11 05:15:04 and read 42429 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 196):
What if the aircraft simply flew out of that military radar's range?

Or, more specifically, what if the Malaysian military does not want to admit that some of their primary radar stations were inoperable that night? Say, those which look out over the Malacca strait? Might well have been the case, and it would not be abnormal or anything. Radars need regular maintenance, and such. But admitting this now, after so many days, would make the Malaysian Air Force look like they are less than perfectly competent, so they might be reluctant to actually say so.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Pellegrine
Posted 2014-03-11 05:16:13 and read 42346 times.

As someone else probably proposed, after an emergency the pilots could have turned back towards KUL and flown over the South Andaman and Strait of Malacca dumping fuel, troubleshooting, etc. Initially, I have wondered why they might not have chosen a closer airport, but the severity of their emergency might not have been clear. Also, in other accidents, there has been proposed a tendency for some pilots to want to get to their home airport/maintenance base or destination, and not a random airfield where there is no airline/maintenance support.

There really isn't any more to talk about on this topic at this time, with so little information.

Quoting Voodoo (Reply 179):
There does seem to be a layer of subtle censorship from the Malaysian govt. Perhaps its subtlety is due to a lack of certainty on their part and the feeling they have to at least appear in control.

This...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-11 05:18:29 and read 41338 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 194):
This detection (TCAS) relies on ADS-B broadcasts (which were turned off in MH370).

Only some TCAS integrates ADS-B broadcasts, apparently they call this 'hybrid surveillance': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic...surveillance-broadcast_.28ADS-B.29

Otherwise it is just using transponder info.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: EI747SYDNEY
Posted 2014-03-11 05:18:34 and read 41483 times.

This is all very strange! a modern jetliner just dissapearing and nobody seems to have any idea where it is! All just speculation at this stage.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: SOBHI51
Posted 2014-03-11 05:18:50 and read 41668 times.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/wo...irlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
With all due respect, he can not be sure of that, yet.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: DTW2HYD
Posted 2014-03-11 05:20:44 and read 41516 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 193):
In many cultures in Asia loss of face is a big issue, I am wondering if the military know what happened and are buying time.

I doubt Malaysian military has any clue. It is possible other countries with advanced surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities might have some idea, but if they conclude this is already a recovery mission (sad to say that) not a rescue mission, they may not come forward because protecting information about their capabilities takes precedence over helping Malaysia. It sounds cynical but reality.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-11 05:22:28 and read 40549 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 204):
Only some TCAS integrates ADS-B broadcasts, apparently they call this 'hybrid surveillance':

Or TIS-B, and requires ADS-B "in" hardware installed...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 05:23:20 and read 40632 times.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 206):

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/wo...irlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
With all due respect, he can not be sure of that, yet.

"we're inclined to conclude" =/= "we're sure of"

To my understanding.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2014-03-11 05:24:59 and read 40441 times.

According to airlineroute's twitter page, MH is retiring flight number MH370/371 effective March 14. MH's KUL-PEK service will be MH318/319 this Friday onwards.

https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status/443251160795721729/photo/1

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 05:27:31 and read 39993 times.

Quoting aw70 (Reply 202):
But admitting this now, after so many days, would make the Malaysian Air Force look like they are less than perfectly competent, so they might be reluctant to actually say so.

   Going by Hanlon's razor, I'd also assume that they either are not sure of their findings (data), or may have had a visit from Mr. Cock-up that they don't feel like talking about publicly.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2014-03-11 05:27:39 and read 40292 times.

This is getting weird by the minute.

Regarding terrorism hypothesis, Banda Aceh (on the Northern tip of the island of Sumatra) is well-known for terrorist activities. That would be on the way from the Gulf of Thailand - Kuala Lumpur - Strait of Malacca.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: hiflyer
Posted 2014-03-11 05:28:16 and read 40172 times.

So 1000 meters...fairly staight course...crosses the land mass over a park...last reading out in the strait apparently same course...if a hijacking why have the lights on as reported as it approached the east coast? If a hijacking then on a course for where? What is there up ahead that can take a 777 with a good load onboard....forget commercial...forget current military....what else? Old military from WWII? Old road? Don't need to fly it off..just get it down.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: aw70
Posted 2014-03-11 05:30:04 and read 39697 times.

Something else that I have not read much, if anything about here: if the flight indeed doubled back to overfly the peninsula, and if primary radar contact by the Malaysian military was lost over the Malacca strait - what about the Indonesian military? They have to have at least some primary radar sites operational that might have tracked MH370 as well? Any word from these guys yet?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 05:30:22 and read 39334 times.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 203):

As someone else probably proposed, after an emergency the pilots could have turned back towards KUL and flown over the South Andaman and Strait of Malacca dumping fuel, troubleshooting, etc. Initially, I have wondered why they might not have chosen a closer airport, but the severity of their emergency might not have been clear. Also, in other accidents, there has been proposed a tendency for some pilots to want to get to their home airport/maintenance base or destination, and not a random airfield where there is no airline/maintenance support.

You have a good point about "home base".

Zero comms seems so very unlikely but let's posit that. You lost everything. Why are you dumping fuel? First off, how would lost comms connect with an emergency where you have to dump fuel? And if the emergency is so serious that you must land soon, you would land immediately anyway and not dump fuel. Besides, with 7½ hours of fuel left that wouldn't make a 777-200ER massively heavy anyway.

For that matter, in the case of lost comms why are you going west. There are clearly defined procedures. In VFR conditions, you land at the closest practicable airport, which would probably be SGN assuming lost comms at the point where transponder data was lost. In IFR conditions, you'd follow the "AVEF" rule, Assigned Vectored Expected Filed path in that order. None of AVEF would call for a return to KUL or a diversion to SIN.

So many questions...

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 201):
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 194):
This detection (TCAS) relies on ADS-B broadcasts

No it doesnt. TCAS is independant of ADS-B. TCAS functions off a regular Mode-A/C transponder..

  

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-11 05:30:39 and read 39154 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 201):
Quoting nupogodi (Reply 204):

Thank you! The difference wasn't clear to me.



David

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: TreeHillRavens
Posted 2014-03-11 05:33:12 and read 38930 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 193):
does Malaysian's AVOD have a live flight map (I checked their website and it seems a comprehensive system but doesn't specifically mention a live map)?

Yes. MAS AVOD system on the 772 does feature a LIVE flight map. This channel however, can be switched off.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Enobar
Posted 2014-03-11 05:33:45 and read 39038 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 193):
does Malaysian's AVOD have a live flight map (I checked their website and it seems a comprehensive system but doesn't specifically mention a live map)?

Yes, I have flown many times with MH on the 772 Fleet and It does have live maps. If there's ever a spare seat next to me i always tune it into the map so I can glance at it while watching other entertainment.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 05:39:43 and read 37754 times.

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 217):
Yes. MAS AVOD system on the 772 does feature a LIVE flight map. This channel however, can be switched off.

Thanks, so the passengers must have know they weren't going to Beijing, OR it was another system / channel deliberately or due to some failure turned off!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-11 05:42:45 and read 36844 times.

Quoting traveladdict (Reply 192):
What does everyone make of this?

SOme people on the forum mentioned 9M-MRO didn't have SATCOM antenna.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 196):
What if the aircraft simply flew out of that military radar's range?

Probably not something Malaysia would like to advertise. Pulau Perak is 100km off shore from Malaysia. It would be a good location for a radar, but it seems there's only a lighthouse there? http://xnuripilot.blogspot.co.at/2011/04/pulau-perak.html

Anyway, if the plane flew further, it should be detected by Indonesia, no?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-11 05:51:08 and read 34841 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 220):
Thanks, so the passengers must have know they weren't going to Beijing, OR it was another system / channel deliberately or due to some failure turned off!

GPS works fine inside an aircraft fuselage, and mobile devices are fully capable of locking on to GPS without AGPS. While many mobile devices require an Internet connection to download relevant map data, there are also many applications for those same devices that store map data on the device to get around this requirement. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that one passenger had such a device with such an application and would use it if the live map was switched off. Presumably they would notify other passengers. It's a sobering thought.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: mila
Posted 2014-03-11 05:51:10 and read 35169 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 221):

Interesting a Swedish military assault boat Stridsbåt90 in Asia  

https://www.google.se/search?q=stridsb%C3%A5t+90&client=firefox-a&hs=2nN&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ewYfU7SDH6Hl4wS09YDIAw&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1548&bih=1011

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: uta999
Posted 2014-03-11 05:54:56 and read 34401 times.

Does the captain hold the vital clue to this.

Why would a 777 captain have a simulator of the same plane at home?

It does not make sense

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: zeke
Posted 2014-03-11 05:55:34 and read 34121 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 182):
I think they lost around 3000ft or so from their original altitude rather than flying at 3000ft. So they were still somewhere around 30 000ft...

Which could be the single engine drift down level at that weight.

Quoting aw70 (Reply 175):
The sightings of large aircraft at low level in the Malacca strait are as of now unconfirmed.

Low flying small and large aircraft are common in the Strait of Malacca for piracy and people smuggling detection by Singaporean, Malaysian, and Australian government aircraft.

Quoting aw70 (Reply 202):
Or, more specifically, what if the Malaysian military does not want to admit that some of their primary radar stations were inoperable that night? Say, those which look out over the Malacca strait?

The Strait of Malacca has a lot of surveillance, Malaysia almost has a continuous coastal radar coverage for shipping, I think around 8 radar heads. Also keep in mind that more than likely there are 3-4 countries airspace involved here, Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia. If the aircraft did turn around in Vietnamese airspace, it would probably would have transited Singapore airspace before entering Malaysian.

I would be sure at a higher level the various governments would be sharing information not available to the public, there is noting to gain by embarrassing anyone when you are accepting their help.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-11 05:58:05 and read 33675 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 225):

Does the captain hold the vital clue to this.

Why would a 777 captain have a simulator of the same plane at home?

It does not make sense

Because he enjoys flight simming?

After all in a home flight simulator you can fly your 777 wherever you want with your own schedule, something you can't do in real life.

It's not like he's the only one, there are many pilots who enjoy FS or at least are involved in flight sim business.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: mila
Posted 2014-03-11 05:59:28 and read 33463 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 225):

I did ask myself the same thing when I saw the simulator, odd but he could just be a real flight nerd OTH.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: LH648
Posted 2014-03-11 05:59:56 and read 33504 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 225):
Why would a 777 captain have a simulator of the same plane at home?

Make perfect sense to me. It would be strange if he had Tu-134 simulator...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: mila
Posted 2014-03-11 06:01:33 and read 33018 times.

Quoting LH648 (Reply 229):

Why? I seldom do things at home that I do in the office!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-11 06:04:12 and read 32324 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 225):
Does the captain hold the vital clue to this.

Why would a 777 captain have a simulator of the same plane at home?

It does not make sense

It makes perfect sense. He enjoys flying, he's an aviation enthusiast, and clearly a geek. I am jealous of his setup. He was using Flight Simulator 9 and 10 so he would be flying more than just a 777 on his sim.

A captain with 18000 hours and lots of experience on the type would not need a simulator to pull off the 'heist' or whatever the theory is about him. In a crime of that type, flying the plane would not be an issue for him, it would be the unpredictable human factors. Microsoft hasn't implemented hijack mode into Flight Simulator as of yet, I don't think.

The flight crew may have played part in this, of course, but saying that the simulator implies some motive... is asinine.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-11 06:06:31 and read 31745 times.

Quoting mila (Reply 230):
Why? I seldom do things at home that I do in the office!

Really? I do things for fun that I get paid for professionally... Some people actually love what they do, but getting paid for it and having bosses and schedules really ruins whatever it is that drew you to it in the first place.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Mir
Posted 2014-03-11 06:07:31 and read 31788 times.

Quoting traveladdict (Reply 192):
What does everyone make of this?

I can buy the cracking happening, but I can't buy the results. A slow decompression will set off the cabin altitude alerter well before the crew goes unconscious and prompt them to take action. And I can't buy the idea that China would let an unidentified primary target fly over their airspace for any significant period of time without investigating it. Chinese airspace is very restricted, and they take incursions pretty seriously.

-Mir

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: OV735
Posted 2014-03-11 06:08:42 and read 32008 times.

Quoting mila (Reply 230):
Why? I seldom do things at home that I do in the office!

I've met pilots personally who are avid simulator enthusiasts. The reason why most of us don't to things at home that we do in the office is that what we do in the office bores the c**p out of us.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-11 06:10:22 and read 31513 times.

Quoting mila (Reply 230):

Quoting LH648 (Reply 229):

Why? I seldom do things at home that I do in the office!

And I do the same at home as in my office as my hobby is the same as my job (lucky me, well, at least when not looking at the money all the time ).
Seems to have been the same with the MAS 777 pilot, so thats perfectly fine.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: cbrboy
Posted 2014-03-11 06:11:00 and read 31522 times.

Quoting aw70 (Reply 214):
Something else that I have not read much, if anything about here: if the flight indeed doubled back to overfly the peninsula, and if primary radar contact by the Malaysian military was lost over the Malacca strait - what about the Indonesian military? They have to have at least some primary radar sites operational that might have tracked MH370 as well? Any word from these guys yet?

Malaysia may well have asked the Indonesian military, but the media doesn't appear to have asked. According to this January blog post, Indonesia has several primary radar installations in northern Sumatra.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: mila
Posted 2014-03-11 06:11:27 and read 31500 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 232):

I agree, but he was flying the same plane   I would fly a different plane at home just like I do HW at work SW at home.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Tristarsteve
Posted 2014-03-11 06:12:11 and read 31556 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 221):
SOme people on the forum mentioned 9M-MRO didn't have SATCOM antenna.

Well they are wrong.
MH B777 have flat plate satcom antenna fixed on each side of the fuselage around door 3.
They do not have a huge bubble on the roof.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Shanwick1011Z
Posted 2014-03-11 06:15:37 and read 30732 times.

TINKER - TAILOR - SOLDIER - SPY!

All very complicated!

Maybe it's very simple after all!

Let us consider that first word "tinker" The captain is known to tinker with model aircraft and also a grand six screen flight simulator.

Has anyone who ever tinkered with flight-sim not done something less than legit just to see the consequences?

The captain takes "selfies" Someone suggested he would view anyone who takes selfies as suspect. You make up your own mind!

Could the captain or the FO whom he had chats with transfer some move from the sim to main board - MH370

That would have to wait until established in the cruise, being fairly fresh and possibly when one of them was out of site.

Professional pilots don't behave like that says you?

A couple of years ago or less there was a thread on this site about a three-man crew on a multi over I think Western US and a discussion arose

started I think by the FE as to how long the onboard computers would take to compensate if he pulled a couple of circuit breakers.

He received the OK from the left hand seat and proceeded. IIRC he didn't just pop a few bulbs - he produced two massive engine surges which took too long for comfort to return to normal.

I wish someone could locate the thread if it is still there because I have tried and failed.

The moral of the story..................CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT!

Just my two cents...no assertions meant.

Been like others a lurker here for years...glad to be aboard!

May all those who require comfort at this time find peace!

Best wishes.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-11 06:15:42 and read 30732 times.

Quoting OV735 (Reply 234):
I've met pilots personally who are avid simulator enthusiasts.

There's at least one here.  

If he'd had sinister motives, he probably wouldn't have shown his simulator setup on social media.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: foxxray
Posted 2014-03-11 06:15:55 and read 30735 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 225):
Does the captain hold the vital clue to this.

Why would a 777 captain have a simulator of the same plane at home?

It does not make sense

Well, i'm a real life pilot but i still enjoy "playing" Flight Simulator at home from time to time...
I have a lot of friends which are also pilots and hardcore flightsimmers !

Nothing weird for me.

Aviation is a passion. Is it ok if i enjoy spotting too or is it weird ?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: timothy31388
Posted 2014-03-11 06:16:13 and read 30397 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 225):

What's wrong with that? My dad was a MH B747-400 Captain and he too has a B747 flight sim at home, although not as large as the one built by Captain Zaharie. There's nothing strange about pilots having their own homemade simulators.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-11 06:20:40 and read 29505 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 226):
The Strait of Malacca has a lot of surveillance

Given the history between Malaysia and Indonesia, I'm not surprised, although I've no idea what the situation is now.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: mila
Posted 2014-03-11 06:22:48 and read 29697 times.

Swedish media now refers to Reuters the the military have spotted the aircraft in the Malacka channel.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: BaconButty
Posted 2014-03-11 06:23:15 and read 29566 times.

Quoting cbrboy (Reply 236):
Malaysia may well have asked the Indonesian military, but the media doesn't appear to have asked. According to this January blog post, Indonesia has several primary radar installations in northern Sumatra.

I think it's pretty certain they have, and drawn a blank, since they're concentrating their efforts in the NW approaches to the Malacca strait. Cheers for the link BTW.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-11 06:25:30 and read 28982 times.

Quoting mila (Reply 244):
Swedish media now refers to Reuters the the military have spotted the aircraft in the Malacka channel.

Ehhhh... if it is true... WOW...


David

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-11 06:27:21 and read 28281 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 246):

Nothing on the reuters side. Only that it is tracked to the malacca channel...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Voodoo
Posted 2014-03-11 06:27:22 and read 28268 times.

Quoting mila (Reply 244):
Swedish media now refers to Reuters the the military have spotted the aircraft in the Malacka channel.

I think that just refers to 'last tracked position' ... not a finding of the plane.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 06:27:28 and read 28258 times.

Quoting mila (Reply 244):
Swedish media now refers to Reuters the the military have spotted the aircraft in the Malacka channel.

Sure? Or are they referring to it's radar appearance in the area at the night of the incident?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-11 06:28:16 and read 27874 times.

Quoting mila (Reply 244):
Swedish media now refers to Reuters the the military have spotted the aircraft in the Malacka channel.

Same here in Finland, but it probably is only a mistranslation of the following Reuters quote:

Quote:
Malaysia's military believes a jetliner missing for almost four days turned and flew hundreds of kilometers to the west after it last made contact with civilian air traffic control off the country's east coast, a senior officer told Reuters on Tuesday.


[Edited 2014-03-11 06:29:01]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-11 06:28:45 and read 27877 times.

Quoting 456 (Reply 247):

Then I have an axe to grind with mila for using the words "spotted the aircraft"... 


David

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: 9VSIO
Posted 2014-03-11 06:29:20 and read 27835 times.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 189):

If they went West over Malaysia towards Malacca, how come outward traffic from KUL didn't notice MS370 in their vicinity?

Never mind that, what were the air defence chaps doing if that's the case?!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-11 06:29:33 and read 28345 times.

Quoting mila (Reply 244):
Swedish media now refers to Reuters the the military have spotted the aircraft in the Malacka channel.

And look what Crikey Plane Talking has posted: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...uthorities-visit-crash-site-today/

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: COEWR787
Posted 2014-03-11 06:29:54 and read 28252 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 243):
Given the history between Malaysia and Indonesia, I'm not surprised, although I've no idea what the situation is now.

The extra surveillance of the Straits of Malacca may also have something to do with dealing with the level of piracy in that area.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: vfw614
Posted 2014-03-11 06:31:59 and read 27853 times.

One has to wonder if they only found out about the aircraft heading in the direction of Kota Bahru and descending from there across Malaysia in the direction of the Malacca Strait within the last 12 hours.... Hard to believe that they let the Vietnamese waste all those SAR resources for days - but on the other hand also hard to beleive that the radar trails was only discovered now.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 06:37:08 and read 26659 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 253):
And look what Crikey Plane Talking has posted: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...uthorities-visit-crash-site-today/

Some speculation and some (barely hidden) allegations.... Well.   

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-11 06:38:41 and read 27651 times.

This thread will be locked down, due to length. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. Please continue your discussion in part 13 which is available here:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Thanks and regards,

SA7700


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