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Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-11 20:29:25 and read 84647 times.

Due to length part 14 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 15.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

*** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ***

A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome. If you feel a post is disrespectful towards a user or group we ask that you please use the Suggest Deletion button that is above every post. This brings those to our attention immediately. With the amount of posts these threads are getting we can't keep up with everything. This allows us to fix the issue sooner, and ultimately not have to remove a large amount of posts for housekeeping reasons.


Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 20:35:41 and read 84705 times.

I'm going to quote mandala499 because the post deserves to be at the top as it summarizes a lot of things wel.

This is getting ridiculous.
Sorry, a lot of posts here are covering things that do NOT make sense.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 404):
He would probably tried to divert to PEN

Kota Baru would be the nearest to his position.

No, I don't buy the aircraft making it to the straits of Malacca.
Those who believe the cellphone theories need to know how the stuff works.
Those who claim that it can be through the satcom on the aircraft, unfortunately 9M-MRO is NOT fitted with the GSM-onboard system. Even if so, if it uses the Inmarsat Swift Broadband, you can actually narrow down its location by now if it's active, as it has fixed aiming spot beam from the satellite.

Those who say Indonesia shot the plane down, please get your heads checked. Our Air Force highly value the missiles. A gun run would require a higher performance jet... The jets we have in west Borneo and in Sumatra are mere Hawk 100/200s. And yes, interception permission to fire process involve approval to the duty commander of the Defence Command (The areas we are talking comes under the west air defence command), and if not being fired at, to shoot your interceptee, we need permission from the Chief of Staff, Minister of Defence, OR President. A LOT in the chain to get the permission, if it happened, it would have leaked by now!

People need to remember, AF447 simply disappeared... only the ACARS (sat-cars) gave clues. Now imagine if we had no Satcars on AF447? Coz MH's ACARS service subscription, is much lighter/less than AF's... eg: no automated flight following position update, longest interval engine monitoring... etc...


BTW mandala499 it is not getting ridiculous. It was already ridiculous a long time ago and many posts ago. 

The conspiracy theories are an inevitable consequence of uncertainty.

[Edited 2014-03-11 20:36:20]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-11 20:35:54 and read 84657 times.

This is getting even more ridiculous now

THE search for missing Flight MH370 has been thrown into yet more confusion after a key Malaysian military chief denied earlier reports that radar had spotted the plane hundreds of kilometres off course.

Air force chief General Rodzali Daud was quoted in a local pro-government newspaper as saying a military base had detected the Malaysia Airlines aircraft near an island in the Malacca Strait, far to the southwest of where it should have been headed.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...ikely/story-fnizu68q-1226851991393

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2014-03-11 20:37:11 and read 84457 times.

I've been following these threads with quite a bit of interest and given the recent developments I'm wondering if anyone one else has entertained the thought that the longer this plane goes without being found, the more interests in the areas along the Indian Ocean/Asian Pacific Coasts should start moving to a higher level of alert.

It wouldn't be the first time a terrorist group has used a plane as a weapon and it doesn't take a lot of imagination as to what types of materials terrorists groups can get their hands onto to fill up a 250 ton metal tube.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2014-03-11 20:38:58 and read 84270 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 2):
This is getting even more ridiculous now

THE search for missing Flight MH370 has been thrown into yet more confusion after a key Malaysian military chief denied earlier reports that radar had spotted the plane hundreds of kilometres off course.

Air force chief General Rodzali Daud was quoted in a local pro-government newspaper as saying a military base had detected the Malaysia Airlines aircraft near an island in the Malacca Strait, far to the southwest of where it should have been headed.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...ikely/story-fnizu68q-1226851991393

I've also seen some reports saying that his statement is being contradicted by other government sources.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: socalgeo
Posted 2014-03-11 20:42:21 and read 84015 times.

OK, Another theory, but hear me out. I read this account of a "potential" eyewitness yesterday

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...ible-sighting-of-airliner-1.505683

and I immediately discarded it because it didn't fit all of the data points that I had been hearing. But after all of the different ebbs and flows of possibilities that we heard today I decided to see if I could make this account fit. Heck, it's got to sound more realistic than the theory presented a few pages ago of a government hijacking the plane (full of its own citizens, mind you) so they could reverse engineer the plane's 20+ year old design... even though that government owns dozens of these planes already..unbelievable..... Anyway, here it is:

1) The crew is somehow not in total control, and can't communicate.

2) An eyewitness in Keterah claims to have seen "a bright white light, believed to be of an aircraft, descending at high speed towards the South China Sea about 1.45am on the day flight MH370 went missing"

3) Eyewitness claims ""It was moving towards the sea, towards Bachok area, which was unusual. "Usually, aircrafts that fly over here have their usual route pattern, but this one went completely towards the other way," he said. Alif said he watched the light's movement for about five minutes, before realising that it was descending."

It is possible that the earlier account of a western flight path towards the Andaman Sea was real, but the details are not complete, or were inaccurate, like, perhaps the actual time that the plane was over Pulau Perak Island thus the Govt. retracted the whole thing. If you can believe this, then perhaps the plane turned back east and descended rapidly back over Keterah towards the South China Sea and ditched not far off the coast. Images of that Ethiopian 767 hitting the surf 10-15 years ago come up for me.

I made a map of the scenario:



If the plane went in within a few miles of shore, in a relatively confined area (like that hijacked Ethiopian 767) then perhaps it would have gone unnoticed. I have searched for a KML or good drawing of the search area boundaries, but I have not found one yet. Anyway, the search grids look to me like they have concentrated off shore...

So there it is...thoughts?

SoCalGeo

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Web500sjc
Posted 2014-03-11 20:42:46 and read 83948 times.

Sorry just came to my mind, what happens to a fly by wire airplane , like the B777, B787, A320-A380 if there is a total electrical failure? how controllable would it be?

I realize it is really absurd to think about a total electrical failure, but I wouldn't mind knowing for future reference.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: aerobalance
Posted 2014-03-11 20:42:48 and read 83939 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 2):

He may not have said it, but somebody did. Why are they searching in that area, just for the heck of it?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: bellancacf
Posted 2014-03-11 20:43:00 and read 83936 times.

To what extent is a 777 able to fly entirely on its own? If someone set the autopilot (or some system) to hold an altitude and heading, would the plane then fly until its fuel ran out in the direction requested and at the height requested?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-11 20:43:55 and read 83938 times.

Can anyone please respond to my question (Reply 404) in Thread 14? It is almost at the bottom of that thread. Thank you!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-11 20:44:40 and read 83783 times.

More and more this is screaming there is more to this story that the government of Malaysia know, and are not prepared to share.. yet

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Quoting chrisrad (Reply 2):
This is getting even more ridiculous now

THE search for missing Flight MH370 has been thrown into yet more confusion after a key Malaysian military chief denied earlier reports that radar had spotted the plane hundreds of kilometres off course.

Air force chief General Rodzali Daud was quoted in a local pro-government newspaper as saying a military base had detected the Malaysia Airlines aircraft near an island in the Malacca Strait, far to the southwest of where it should have been headed.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...ikely/story-fnizu68q-1226851991393

I've also seen some reports saying that his statement is being contradicted by other government sources.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Web500sjc
Posted 2014-03-11 20:45:30 and read 83780 times.

Quoting aerobalance (Reply 7):

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 2):

He may not have said it, but somebody did. Why are they searching in that area, just for the heck of it?

The Malaysian government has no idea where MH370 is, or where it went. My guess is they are throwing darts at a map on the wall.

[Edited 2014-03-11 20:46:19]

My faith in the Malaysian government to properly conduct a search and rescue mission is severely shaken, and it really is a shame. I feel like they are going through the motions, hoping to stumble upon wreckage.


[Edited 2014-03-11 20:51:08]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Mark2fly1034
Posted 2014-03-11 20:45:40 and read 83764 times.

I really hope they do find this plane soon. the longer this goes on the worse and probably more ugly its going to get to say the least. How is it if I lose my $500 iPhone I can find it right away anywhere in the world but a $250 million dollar aircraft goes under the radar. There has to be stuff not being told to the public. I have a feeling that new rules will be put into place because of this. Also how much longer do the search the new area before moving on. Maybe going more west? How many boats travel the area where they are looking or further west? By now a commercial boat of some kind would of found something. This is taking way to long to find this plane and is becoming a little ridiculous. 90% of the post on here with theories could be true the other 10% about aliens sound highly unlikely. I really do feel bad for the families I could never imagine being on either end and going through this.

On a side note the US media is going to keep going on about this until its found. One of my favorite quotes so far from CNN asked by the news anchor was can the plane even fly with the transponder turned off.... come on lets ask real question now.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: alberchico
Posted 2014-03-11 20:50:22 and read 83409 times.

Note to moderators: Please don't let the thread run to 409 posts like the last one. Thank you  

Looks like Vietnam is scaling back their effort. Would China be expected to do the bulk of the recovery once the aircraft is found seeing as their navy is the most capable of doing the job ?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 20:50:26 and read 83204 times.

http://news.yahoo.com/malaysia-milit...veered-west-004734056--sector.html

I think it's pretty clear that the MAF has no info on where the plane went after IGARI. They know only that it changed heading at IGARI and then disappeared.

The other search area was based on that heading, and not on any radar track.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: DeltaAtl
Posted 2014-03-11 20:53:57 and read 83021 times.

FAA and Oxygen (From FAA Publications)

Oxygen Requirements at Altitude.

The FAA requires that all pilots flying their aircraft above 12,500 feet for 30 minutes or longer or at 14,000 feet or above during the entire flight must use supplemental oxygen. The amount required is 1 liter of oxygen per minute for every 10,000 feet. For example, at 18,000 feet there should be a flow of 1.8 liters per minute of oxygen available via a standard breathing device. The FAA requires there should be a device so attached to each breathing device that visually shows the flow of oxygen. (Nelson flow meters meet this FAA requirement.) The FAA also regulates that passengers must have supplemental oxygen available over 15,000 feet and that it is recommended that supplemental oxygen be used at night at altitudes over 5,000 feet.

Effective Performance Time.

This is the amount of time during which a pilot is able to effectively or adequately fly his aircraft with an insufficient supply of oxygen. At altitudes below 30,000 feet this time may differ considerably from the time of total consciousness (the time it takes to pass out). Above 35,000 feet the times become shorter and eventually coincides, for all practical purposes, with the time it takes for blood to circulate from the lungs to the head.

Average Effective Performance Time for flying
personnel without supplemental oxygen:

15,000 to 18,000 feet ..........30 minutes or more

22,000 feet ...............................5 to 10 minutes

25,000 feet .................................3 to 5 minutes

28,000 feet............................2 1/2 to 3 minutes

30,000 feet .................................1 to 2 minutes

35,000 feet ............................30 to 60 seconds

40,000 feet ............................15 to 20 seconds

45,000 feet ..............................9 to 15 seconds

Factors which will determine the Effective Performance Time

Altitude. EPT decreases at high altitudes.
Rate of ascent. In general, the faster the rate, the shorter the EPT.
Physical Activity. Exercise decreases EPT considerably.
Day-to-Day Factors. Physical fitness and other factors (smoking, health, stress) may change your ability to tolerate hypoxia from day to day, thereby changing your EPT.
Cannulas.

The cannula type breathing devices can be used up to 18,000 feet. If a cannula is used, there must be a standby face mask available for each cannula used in case a head cold causes the user some nasal congestion. Pilots should refer to FAR 23.1447 to see if any restrictions apply for their use of cannula type breathing devices in operating their aircraft.

Cylinders.

Oxygen cylinders should be hydrostatically tested every 5 years. Steel Cylinders are usually tested every 10 years. Specially constructed oxygen cylinders could have a shorter period for hydrostatically testing. There could also be a limit on how long the cylinder may be used when it was supplied as original equipment with a factory installed, built in oxygen system. Most cylinders can be used indefinitely. However, some aircraft may be required to replace the cylinders after 25 years. Factory supplied built in oxygen systems will have the necessary maintenance information in the aircraft manual.

Around the neck of the cylinder are letters and numbers stamped into the cylinder. Of importance to the pilot are three items. AT the beginning of the numbers are the letters, DOT. This indicates that the cylinder has been approved by the Department of Transportation, which means they can be commercially filled. European cylinders may not have the DOT stamped on the cylinder. This could prevent the cylinder from being refilled in the USA. Owners of imported aircraft from Europe should be aware of this problem.

After the DOT label, there will be 4 numbers. These indicate the rate cylinder pressure. 2015 and 2216 are common.

After the end of all the numbers will be two numbers followed by a letter that looks like an inverted capital A and then two more numbers. This is the date of manufacture of the cylinder. The first numbers are the month (03 for example would be March) and the last two being the year of manufacture (96 for would be for 1996).

The date testing is required is based on this date, not when the cylinder was purchased. It is quite common to have a unused cylinder that could be one of two years old. Perhaps not fair for the buyer, but who said life was always fair.

Outlets in Built-In Systems.

We understand that some systems require the O-Ring seals in the manifold outlets to be replaced on a scheduled basis. Consult your aircraft manual for more information.

FAA Altitude Test Chamber.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: davs5032
Posted 2014-03-11 20:55:09 and read 82862 times.

Quoting socalgeo (Reply 5):
If the plane went in within a few miles of shore, in a relatively confined area (like that hijacked Ethiopian 767) then perhaps it would have gone unnoticed. I have searched for a KML or good drawing of the search area boundaries, but I have not found one yet. Anyway, the search grids look to me like they have concentrated off shore...

So there it is...thoughts?

First, thank you for providing a map...always makes it so much easier to understand what you're explaining.

As to your theory, it's not too farfetched, however I don't think it's likely. I say this because with such a low flight path over a populated area, I'd expect many more eyewitnesses. Also, a crash site so close to land would be more likely to have debris found by ships/fishing boats/coastal citizens, etc. More importantly, wouldn't it have shown up on a primary radar somewhere, given that it would have flown over a large part of the country?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: antskip
Posted 2014-03-11 20:55:40 and read 82872 times.

Now the Vietnamese Govt has said they are suspending operations for now as they await clarity from the Malaysian Govt. Viet Nam deputy minister of transport Pham Quy TieuTieu is reported as asking for clarity twice but with no response. Further, to muddy the waters further, he says Vietnam told Malaysia on the very first loss of contact with the plane, that it had turned back West!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ticle.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11218446

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 20:55:40 and read 82872 times.

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 6):

Sorry just came to my mind, what happens to a fly by wire airplane , like the B777, B787, A320-A380 if there is a total electrical failure? how controllable would it be?

I realize it is really absurd to think about a total electrical failure, but I wouldn't mind knowing for future reference.

In the case of 777, 320, 330-340 you end up in what is called manual reversion. Physical links from controls to a few select surfaces. In the case of the 777, you get some of the spoiler panels for roll and yaw control plus stabilizer trim for pitch control. Not good handling but better than no control at all.

Of course the issue is that without electrics you would have no instruments beyond the whiskey compass. At night over the ocean that makes having the flight controls somewhat moot since you have no way of orienting yourself.

If memory serves 380 has no manual reversion because they could pass certification without it. Basically they proved that the system was redundant enough to reduce the possibility of complete electric loss to a defined probability so low it didn't matter. No doubt a 380 is safer than a 727 anyway, and if you lose all electrics you're probably dead already.

I can't think of a single airliner that has suffered complete electrical failure.

Quoting bellancacf (Reply 8):

To what extent is a 777 able to fly entirely on its own? If someone set the autopilot (or some system) to hold an altitude and heading, would the plane then fly until its fuel ran out in the direction requested and at the height requested?

Yes.

[Edited 2014-03-11 20:57:04]

[Edited 2014-03-11 20:58:31]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: JOshu
Posted 2014-03-11 20:59:49 and read 82536 times.

It's hard to sort through everything, but this might be new:

"Chinese state media has reported that vessels searching for the Malaysia Airlines plane have pulled floating debris from water. It is not confirmed that the debris is related to the missing flight."

Info received just past 11PM EST

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: dtfg
Posted 2014-03-11 21:00:04 and read 82520 times.

Quoting bellancacf (Reply 8):
To what extent is a 777 able to fly entirely on its own? If someone set the autopilot (or some system) to hold an altitude and heading, would the plane then fly until its fuel ran out in the direction requested and at the height requested?

Helios Airways Flight 522 pretty much flown itself for most of the journey since both the pilots lost consciousness soon after the plane took off, and it crashed until it run out of fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

Of course in that accident it was a 737, but I assume it would be the same for a 777

[Edited 2014-03-11 21:01:29]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 21:03:13 and read 82329 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):
Of course the issue is that without electrics you would have no instruments beyond the whiskey compass. At night over the ocean that makes having the flight controls somewhat moot since you have no way of orienting yourself.

You know what heading you came out on. Wouldn't that be enough to use the compass to at least get you near KUL, which is well lit?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: airplanedaj
Posted 2014-03-11 21:03:51 and read 82378 times.

As mentioned in previous threads, there was an AD affecting 777's issued by the FAA regarding potential fuselage cracks near SATCOM antennas. Does anyone know for sure whether or not it applied to 9M-MRO? I only ask because there are two placements for SATCOM antennas, as discussed in earlier threads

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 21:03:53 and read 82599 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):
Of course the issue is that without electrics you would have no instruments beyond the whiskey compass. At night over the ocean that makes having the flight controls somewhat moot since you have no way of orienting yourself.

You know what heading you came out on. Wouldn't that be enough to use the compass to at least get you near KUL, which is well lit?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: bellancacf
Posted 2014-03-11 21:03:56 and read 82622 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):
Quoting bellancacf (Reply 8):
To what extent is a 777 able to fly entirely on its own? If someone set the autopilot (or some system) to hold an altitude and heading, would the plane then fly until its fuel ran out in the direction requested and at the height requested?


Yes.

Thanks for the answer. BTW, I enjoy reading your posts.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-11 21:06:28 and read 83963 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 9):
Can anyone please respond to my question (Reply 404) in Thread 14? It is almost at the bottom of that thread. Thank you!
Yes, airplanes are like any other technical product. They can fail after one minute, 50 years of usage, or never, ever.

Quoting mandela (Reply 409):
Those who believe the cellphone theories need to know how the stuff works.
You could propose an A.net entrance exam in Wireless Communication in the Site forum  .

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: socalgeo
Posted 2014-03-11 21:06:39 and read 83939 times.

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 18):
First, thank you for providing a map...always makes it so much easier to understand what you're explaining.

As to your theory, it's not too farfetched, however I don't think it's likely. I say this because with such a low flight path over a populated area, I'd expect many more eyewitnesses. Also, a crash site so close to land would be more likely to have debris found by ships/fishing boats/coastal citizens, etc. More importantly, wouldn't it have shown up on a primary radar somewhere, given that it would have flown over a large part of the country?

Thanks! I tend to agree with you, but amazingly, this is the single bit of evidence (admittedly weak) that has not been retracted, that I have been able to find of a possible location...

It was almost 1:30 in the morning, so it is not totally out of the realm of possibility that no others saw it (very unlikely).

It is also not out of question that the primary radar may not have been as effective as the Govt would have us believe, and it is a hilly area.

The lack of debris or the fact that fishermen would have found it is pretty hard to discount, but who knows, stranger things have happened.

SoCalGeo

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Mcoov
Posted 2014-03-11 21:08:04 and read 86372 times.

Quoting dtfg (Reply 23):

That still wouldn't explain the ginormous turn to the west MH370 took.

The plot thickens with every passing hour.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 21:09:08 and read 86200 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 25):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):
Of course the issue is that without electrics you would have no instruments beyond the whiskey compass. At night over the ocean that makes having the flight controls somewhat moot since you have no way of orienting yourself.

You know what heading you came out on. Wouldn't that be enough to use the compass to at least get you near KUL, which is well lit?

Heading would be the only thing you could hold. You have no electrics so no gyros, no servos and no displays. Thus, no artificial horizon, no altitude display and no indicated airspeed. If you're flying manually with no outside reference and no instruments, there's no way to stay level. And since you don't have electrics you can't turn use the autopilot.

You'd be in a death spiral in no time.

In instrument training, many instructors make you close your eyes and then tell you what to do (e.g. "turn left 90 degrees, now climb, now stop climbing..."). Then you open your eyes and have to recover with instruments only. This is a demonstration of how truly useless your senses are when it comes to spatial orientation in an an airplane. And that's in a light prop. In an airliner it is even worse.

[Edited 2014-03-11 21:12:24]

[Edited 2014-03-11 21:12:49]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: jcxroberts
Posted 2014-03-11 21:11:49 and read 86042 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 14):
Looks like Vietnam is scaling back their effort. Would China be expected to do the bulk of the recovery once the aircraft is found seeing as their navy is the most capable of doing the job ?

China won't stop until they resolve this. The public pressure is too high plus the government wants to know what happened.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Mark2fly1034
Posted 2014-03-11 21:15:20 and read 85221 times.

Quoting DeltaAtl (Reply 17):

You know 12,500 and 14,000 is not the rule for part 121 that would be 61. 121 I think is 10,000 and 12,000. It's different numbers the what 61 is.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 21:16:02 and read 85240 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 34):

Yes, you would need some point of reference. Could you even see the lights on one of the coasts from IGARI at 35K feet?

Anyway, here is the cockpit of 9M-MRO.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/6/4/0773460.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/1/3/0561319.jpg

[Edited 2014-03-11 21:17:30]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: DeltaAtl
Posted 2014-03-11 21:17:54 and read 85895 times.

ITS now being reported on FOX ( kelley files ) - 777- BA has had had a request or notice in for change to FBW computer / reporting systems for security reasons- that there IS a common ( wired) link somehow between some of the FBW reporting systems and the inflight passenger entertainment systems- and possibly subject to hacking !

Dont know if this report is factual

http://1.usa.gov/1g7jNSq

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-11 21:19:10 and read 84783 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 30):
Yes, airplanes are like any other technical product. They can fail after one minute, 50 years of usage, or never, ever.

Hard to imagine a scenario with catastrophic electrical failure without any prior electrical issue in 777, although your point is well taken.

What is last wide body crash solely because of system failure without any prior issue with the specific system? For example, AF 447's problem started with pitot tube icing over which had been recorded before that tragedy.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Enobar
Posted 2014-03-11 21:21:13 and read 84446 times.

Can I just ask given how much discussion there has been Round ACARS and whether MH370 did/did not have it, and what level of subscription it had etc;

What information is relayed? The AF447 flight obviously had the more advanced subscription and relayed a whole heap of information before crashing - does it supply GPS coordinates? If so I wonder why it took so long to locate the wreckage. If not - it would perhaps not have made as big a difference to the SAR effort of MH370 as some seem to think..

And... It begs the question as to why ACARS would not relay GPS coordinates.. Surely if is already sending so much data back to HQ, would a set of coordinates really be much more data to send?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: TheRedBaron
Posted 2014-03-11 21:34:57 and read 82750 times.

My gut tells me: Explosive decompression due to a failed cockpit window, failed electrical equipment and rapid descent from cruise, then th e other pilot lost consciousness and the plane flew till it exhausted the fuel.... its nowhere the area they think it is...

then again I have read too much weird books

TRB

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 21:38:06 and read 82030 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 39):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 34):

Yes, you would need some point of reference. Could you even see the lights on one of the coasts from IGARI at 35K feet?

I think you probably could assuming clear skies. But this doesn't really help very much. At night everything becomes a bit muddled on the outside references front. Even if you could make out the horizon you still wouldn't know your altitude. You could set power based on thrust lever position but since you wouldn't know your pitch attitude you couldn't make even a rough estimate of speed.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 34):
does it supply GPS coordinates? If so I wonder why it took so long to locate the wreckage.

Because if you lose contact at cruise, the plane can be anywhere in a very very large area, plus you have currents.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 34):
And... It begs the question as to why ACARS would not relay GPS coordinates.. Surely if is already sending so much data back to HQ, would a set of coordinates really be much more data to send?

There is already a system to determine location: the transponder.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: zeke
Posted 2014-03-11 21:39:22 and read 81863 times.

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 11):
My faith in the Malaysian government to properly conduct a search and rescue mission is severely shaken, and it really is a shame. I feel like they are going through the motions, hoping to stumble upon wreckage.

You need to be clear who has the responsibility here for SAR, where contact was lost it was in the Singapore SRR.

http://www.mpa.gov.sg/sites/images/pdf_capture/singapore-srr.jpg

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-11 21:40:29 and read 81782 times.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 14):
Note to moderators: Please don't let the thread run to 409 posts like the last one. Thank you  

On behalf of the moderators we apologize. It has been difficult to keep up. The amount of posts we've been getting on the subject is unprecedented.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 27):
You know what heading you came out on. Wouldn't that be enough to use the compass to at least get you near KUL, which is well lit?

It's could be tough to maintain it since you have no point of reference besides your mag compass. Not impossible. But if you are trying to stick to say 330, chances are you won't be on the nose unless you keep an eye on the compass.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 34):
In instrument training, many instructors make you close your eyes and then tell you what to do (e.g. "turn left 90 degrees, now climb, now stop climbing..."). Then you open your eyes and have to recover with instruments only. This is a demonstration of how truly useless your senses are when it comes to spatial orientation in an an airplane. And that's in a light prop. In an airliner it is even worse.

It's pretty amazing when they do this. I had an instructor during private training, right before my first solo cross country, who had me put the hood on and put my head down and my eyes closed. He did turns and climbs and asked me what he was doing. I said he was level with a left turn. We were 10 degrees nose up with a 40 degree bank to the right. It was all to show me how dangerous it could be going into instrument conditions without proper training. It's incredible how disoriented you can get.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 39):
Yes, you would need some point of reference. Could you even see the lights on one of the coasts from IGARI at 35K feet?

You might be able to if it is clear. But even then you have to make sure you aren't focusing on one fixed point or else autoknesis will kick in and it will create even more confusion.
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: DeltaAtl
Posted 2014-03-11 21:41:34 and read 82000 times.

Article from http://www.straitstimes.com

"Alright, good night" were the last heard words from the missing Malaysian Airlines (MAS) flight MH370 - which were revealed for the first time at a meeting in Beijing on Wednesday morning between the Malaysian government and Chinese relatives.

The flight then disappeared from radar screens, said Malaysia's civil aviation officials at the meeting fronted by its envoy to China, Datuk Iskandar Sarudin, and held in a packed room with nearly 400 relatives at the Metropark Lido hotel.

Anxious and angry over their loved one's unknown fate and lack of progress in locating the plane, the family members on Tuesday had requested for the meeting with the Malaysian government to seek answers to their questions .

But for close to two hours, the morning meeting, which was live-tweeted throughout by The Straits Times, ended with more questions than answers.

The aviation officials said MH370's last heard words were made in response after Malaysian air traffic controllers told the cockpit that they were entering Vietnamese airspace and that air traffic controllers from Ho Chi Minh city were taking over.

The plane, carrying 239 passengers and crew in all including 153 Chinese nationals, have remained missing since Saturday 1.20am despite a massive international search operation involving Singapore.

While such disappearance from radar screens could be a result of a hijacking and the hijackers turning off signals, in such an event, the pilot should still have sent a secret mayday code, said the Malaysian civil aviation official.

The officials also said that there was no reason to suspect the pilots, who were experienced and had passed all the checks that MAS applies to pilots.

This was in response to families bringing up reports that the co-pilot had let passengers into the cockpit in an incident in 2011.

In a confusing exchange, the male official - who was Malay but spoke Chinese - was asked repeatedly by family members if military-grade radar had picked up the plane. Military air data and technology would go beyond the civilian ones, they said.

The official replied that the Malaysian military was assisting investigations "at a high level."

Pressed repeatedly on what information the military had given authorities, he finally replied that "now is not the time" to reveal it.

Some of the families shouted incredulously at this, but one man who had taken on the role of family representative said that they understood, and that they hoped Malaysia would reveal the information as soon as possible.

The exchange boosted theories among the anxious families that there are ongoing secret negotiations with terrorists who had hijacked the plane. Adding to this was the official's earlier statement that Malaysia hopes that the passengers are alive.

The families also handed the number of a passenger's cellphone that has been ringing until today to the envoy, and beseeched Datuk Iskandar for a straight answer on the ringing phones. Whether the plane is on land or whether the passengers had just linked their cellphones to transfer to other numbers if unanswered, they wanted a clear reply, they said.

The families' representative, while thanking Datuk Iskandar and the Malaysian officials for meeting with them, also said that the families are extremely disappointed and angry with the Malaysian government's "delayed and untransparent" rescue efforts. Some wanted an apology from the envoy.

Datuk Iskandar addressed the families at the end of the session, saying that he promises that he will convey their sentiments and thoughts to the Malaysian government. He said that the Malaysian government is doing everything it can, and that all families who wanted to go to KL would be issued visas by today.

He also asked family members to approach him privately anytime.


Wonder what this means????
"Pressed repeatedly on what information the military had given authorities, he finally replied that "now is not the time" to reveal it."

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-11 21:43:20 and read 81473 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 41):
What is last wide body crash solely because of system failure without any prior issue with the specific system? For example, AF 447's problem started with pitot tube icing over which had been recorded before that tragedy.

Point taken, but still no guarantee that a flawless operation history totally excludes a sudden catastrophic failure.

It's a bit like my wife who can't understand why our TV broke down after 15 years of operation without a hitch. Simple, when an electronic component fails, it fails. This comparison might not be entirely fair because airplanes have built-in redundancy and are for a large part mechanical in nature, were wear and tear is a factor, a slow proces. But still, not impossible.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: DeltaAtl
Posted 2014-03-11 21:46:34 and read 81230 times.

China's satellites 'missed best chance' to find missing Malaysia Airlines flight

http://m.scmp.com/news/china/article...ed-best-chance-find-missing-flight

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: timothy31388
Posted 2014-03-11 21:48:21 and read 80768 times.

"Pressed repeatedly on what information the military had given authorities, he finally replied that "now is not the time" to reveal it."

Hmm, that doesn't sound good.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-11 21:49:48 and read 80514 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 40):
It's a bit like my wife who can't understand why our TV broke down after 15 years of operation without a hitch. Simple, when an electronic component fails, it fails. This comparison might not be entirely fair because airplanes have built-in redundancy and are for a large part mechanical in nature, were wear and tear is a factor, a slow proces. But still, not impossible.

Your levity appreciated in these trying circumstances.   Just hope a quick resolution to the search. I mean, for the families and friends of those on that flight this is an unending nightmare compounded by miscommunication, rumors, copilot's transgressions...just unfortunate set of circumstances. God bless them!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 21:52:44 and read 80352 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 33):
What is last wide body crash solely because of system failure without any prior issue with the specific system? For example, AF 447's problem started with pitot tube icing over which had been recorded before that tragedy.

Single cause widebody accidents where the pilots can do nothing are exceedingly rare. TWA800 and Turkish 981 are the only ones I can think of off-hand.

AF447 didn't crash because of the pitot tube issue. That was just the item that set the pilots off on a highly flawed series of actions. If they had followed the documented procedure and checklist for loss of speed data the plane would have made it safely to Paris. Pitot tube malfunctions had happened before.

[Edited 2014-03-11 21:56:03]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-11 21:54:33 and read 79879 times.

Quoting DeltaAtl (Reply 39):
In a confusing exchange, the male official - who was Malay but spoke Chinese - was asked repeatedly by family members if military-grade radar had picked up the plane. Military air data and technology would go beyond the civilian ones, they said.

The official replied that the Malaysian military was assisting investigations "at a high level."

Pressed repeatedly on what information the military had given authorities, he finally replied that "now is not the time" to reveal it.

I still think there is more to this story than any of us know. The government know something that they are holding back, but why waste the resources on a SAR mission then if something is known, but not "YET" being shared?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 21:55:41 and read 79789 times.

Quoting timothy31388 (Reply 42):
"Pressed repeatedly on what information the military had given authorities, he finally replied that "now is not the time" to reveal it."

Hmm, that doesn't sound good.

It might just mean, "we are still analyzing and don't want to confuse things further".

BTW please use the "Quote Selected Text" button when quoting.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: lazybones
Posted 2014-03-11 22:04:58 and read 78452 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 41):
What is last wide body crash solely because of system failure without any prior issue with the specific system?

Failing to see the logic on this one. Almost all crashes are unique, its not just about the single failure its the chain of events. If there was a prior known condition you would hope an AD would address this way before a hull loss. Also, why just wide bodies? All crashes are significant.

But what comes to mind is TWA800 / SR111 / AA587 / TK981 / JA8119 / QF32

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2014-03-11 22:08:32 and read 77910 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 44):
Single cause widebody accidents where the pilots can do nothing are exceedingly rare. TWA800 and Turkish 981 are the only ones I can think of off-hand.

Also perhaps American 191?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Halophila
Posted 2014-03-11 22:11:03 and read 77906 times.

Quoting timothy31388 (Reply 42):
"Pressed repeatedly on what information the military had given authorities, he finally replied that "now is not the time" to reveal it."

All is not being revealed, obviously for good reason. Because either the revelation of that information would compromise current ops, or that the government is as fault. Does anyone know if Indonesia has been conducting land searches in Aceh? It's a volatile region.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyorski
Posted 2014-03-11 22:14:39 and read 77775 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 46):
It might just mean, "we are still analyzing and don't want to confuse things further".

That is what I think. They have an image on radar from that night, however they do not really know if it has anything to do with MH370 as the transponder was turned off. So they see something, but as they cannot confirm its identity they do not want to over-emphasize the information.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-11 22:16:28 and read 77381 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 48):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 44):
Single cause widebody accidents where the pilots can do nothing are exceedingly rare. TWA800 and Turkish 981 are the only ones I can think of off-hand.

Also perhaps American 191?

Yes, thx! Forgot about that one. The famous pic gives me the willies every time I see it.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: hoMsAr
Posted 2014-03-11 22:28:16 and read 75080 times.

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 12):
How is it if I lose my $500 iPhone I can find it right away anywhere in the world but a $250 million dollar aircraft goes under the radar.

Fact is, you can't find your iPhone anywhere in the world. It has to be within range of a cell tower (or wifi connection). This is much the same reason why the 777 can't be found. It went off radar.

How is it that people assume that the entire world has radar or communication towers nearby? Water has a nasty habit of being hard to build things on.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-11 22:28:32 and read 75650 times.

Just saw this on CNN. Quite an interesting take:

http://us.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/a...der-explainer/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: phantomx18
Posted 2014-03-11 22:33:49 and read 74708 times.

After reading thousands of posts (mostly with little to no new information), I tend to be leaning towards a "human" caused reason for the disappearance. Transponder turning off, plane making a controlled turn, maintaining level flight, complete lack of communication, (even the secretive behavior of the government). . .all lead me to think that someone was in control of that cockpit and had a fully functioning airplane.

IF this is the case, then the most likely scenario for this to occur would be for a pilot/co-pilot "hijacking". Anyone trying to enter enter the cockpit externally would have had to go through at least some resistance, which would most likely have lead to a Mayday call or some sort of signal, yet we see zero evidence of that. Whatever happened, seems to have happened without warning.

The scenario that I am imagining is one where the co-pilot (or pilot), incapacitates the other either by physical force inside the cockpit, or by locking them out completely (while using the bathroom, etc.). Then turns off the transponder, makes a turn and heads back to Malaysia, possibly to use the plane as a weapon, either in a huge show of a "terrorist attack" by crashing into a building (Petronas Towers?), or maybe even something as petty as crashing it into the house of an ex (airplanes have been used like this before, although usually small single engine ones).

So where is the plane now? Well in the above scenario, I imagine that either the locked out pilot, flight attendant, or passenger is able to mount an attack on the cockpit, at which point the person in the cockpit realizes that they will not make their intended target and decides to crash into the ocean.

It is scary & depressing to think that the above might have happened, and I hope that I am completely wrong, but at the moment this just seems more likely to me than mystery malfunctions that conveniently shut off transponders and radios, leaving the plane flyable, able to turn and maintain altitude, yet unable to land. Could there have been such a malfunction, yes, but as ridiculous as it sounds, I think the above theory is actually the more likely one.

(The above assumes that the information we currently have about the plane turning and continuing to fly back towards Malaysia is accurate)

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Enobar
Posted 2014-03-11 22:36:13 and read 74370 times.

Is this article from CNN accurate?

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 53):
Just saw this on CNN. Quite an interesting take:

http://us.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/a...der-explainer/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Because if so, I refer to my original question which I asked about why ACARS doesn't transmit a GPS location. Starlionblue replied (and I thank you for your input, but want to follow up)

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 36):
There is already a system to determine location: the transponder.

From what i understand from that CNN article the transponder does not send out the aircrafts location per say, rather it only identifies itself when it is on ATC radar systems. So the difference between the transponder and ACARS actively sending GPS coordinates would be that you would still have a location fix on the plane when it is out of range of ATC.

Am I misinterpreting the article? (Or is CNN wrong?). If my understanding is correct, wouldn't it still be useful to have ACARS broadcasting GPS locations with its other information?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: drew777
Posted 2014-03-11 22:36:22 and read 74581 times.

Quoting flyorski (Reply 50):
They have an image on radar from that night, however they do not really know if it has anything to do with MH370 as the transponder was turned off.

Having lived in Malaysia for 3 years, I can not deny the incompetence of the Malaysian government. However, the amount of resources available to them must be astounding. I can't believe that Singaporean, Chinese, and USA military can't splice Vietnamese, Singaporean, and Malaysian ATC records together. There would need to be a significant lapse in coverage to create that much doubt. I'm leaning towards there is something significant that they don't want to talk about or their system failed to track the plane.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-11 22:38:31 and read 74259 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 51):

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 48):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 44):
Single cause widebody accidents where the pilots can do nothing are exceedingly rare. TWA800 and Turkish 981 are the only ones I can think of off-hand.

Also perhaps American 191?

and when they do occur, they will find the debris easily. But not in this MH case. something more puzzling/weird/deliberate action occured.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: davidzill
Posted 2014-03-11 22:42:47 and read 73220 times.

Too many post to read through, many mysteries indeed, the biggest not being able to find the wreckage. The most significant factor adding to the mystery is that the wrong geographical area has been searched. The B-772 is a great aircraft, being one of most advanced and safest, however something went wrong, it went down, and unfortunately searchers have been covering entirely the wrong geographical area. It is afternoon in the area now, lets hope the straits are being searched aggressively with whatever assets are available in case there are survivors clinging to flotation devices.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 22:43:30 and read 73208 times.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 55):

The transponder reports the altitude along with ID info. Radar gives bearing and range, transponder reports altitude and ID.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder_%28aviation%29

[Edited 2014-03-11 22:45:03]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-11 22:45:22 and read 73359 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 2):
THE search for missing Flight MH370 has been thrown into yet more confusion after a key Malaysian military chief denied earlier reports that radar had spotted the plane hundreds of kilometres off course.

Air force chief General Rodzali Daud was quoted in a local pro-government newspaper as saying a military base had detected the Malaysia Airlines aircraft near an island in the Malacca Strait, far to the southwest of where it should have been headed.

This is becoming a mess. An official says A, media says "A said B".
What's worse is that, media goes to C, and ask about A, and C would say, "Yea yea... A said B"...
You can see how far and fast that can go off track.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 3):
It wouldn't be the first time a terrorist group has used a plane as a weapon and it doesn't take a lot of imagination as to what types of materials terrorists groups can get their hands onto to fill up a 250 ton metal tube.

Question: Where is it now then? We're talking about a 777-200ER not a B-2 stealth bomber!

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 6):
Sorry just came to my mind, what happens to a fly by wire airplane , like the B777, B787, A320-A380 if there is a total electrical failure? how controllable would it be?

Total electrical generation failure = RAT (Ram Air Turbine) would deploy and power the necessary electrics.
The aircraft is still controllable as the FBW is then powered by the RAT through the necessary electrical buses.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):
In the case of 777, 320, 330-340 you end up in what is called manual reversion.

Manual reversion is only there in terms of total systems failure ie: the HYD AND ELEC systems are unpowered. The 737 has manual reversion... 777, 320, 330, 340, 767, 747 do not.

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 12):
How is it if I lose my $500 iPhone I can find it right away anywhere in the world but a $250 million dollar aircraft goes under the radar. There has to be stuff not being told to the public.

If you lose your $250 million dollar aircraft its easy to find it as long as you know it's at an airport anywhere in the world.
This case isn't the same as "if I lose my iPhone I can fnd it anywhere in the world"... try and lose it in an area with no cell coverage... or simpler enough, get on a speedboat, blindfold yourself, and throw the phone overboard... let's see how easy it is to find it... Not so, right?
Even better... get on a speedboat, blindfold yourself, switch the phone off... then wait a few moments, then throw the phone overboard... U still wanna say you can find it anywhere in the world?   

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 21):
"Allah Akbar"

Muslim pilots will say Allahu Akbar when they are scared, in distress... etc...
It was said in the KI574 fatal dive by both pilots... in fact, they screamed it in a fearful tone on the last moments... Not suicidal or terror is it?

Quoting airplanedaj (Reply 26):
Does anyone know for sure whether or not it applied to 9M-MRO? I only ask because there are two placements for SATCOM antennas, as discussed in earlier threads

9M-MRO does not have the High Gain Antenna.
It may have the Low Gain Antenna... but I can't confirm it due to its size, but there is a 3rd 'blade' (the front most) between the wing's trailing edge and the tailfin along the top of the fuselage.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 36):
Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware of Kota Bharu being the closest airfield, that should be capable of handling their B777 right?

In am emergency, yes.
Kota Bharu is 2400m x 45m with strong pavements... albeit narrow, but can be used for emergency.
The other thing, they could have simply made a 180 turn and go to the better choice, Kuala Trengganu, which is designated as an alternate/emergency field for widebody ops in MH. 3480m x 45m.

And bear in mind between those two, there's also Gong Kedak Airbase too. (and yes, the proximity of this airbase along with primary radar facilities nearby, make me dismiss the "they went to strait of Malacca" theory).

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 25):
You could propose an A.net entrance exam in Wireless Communication in the Site forum

I'll think about it if you call me Mandala instead of Mandela...   

Quoting Enobar (Reply 34):
What information is relayed? The AF447 flight obviously had the more advanced subscription and relayed a whole heap of information before crashing - does it supply GPS coordinates? If so I wonder why it took so long to locate the wreckage. If not - it would perhaps not have made as big a difference to the SAR effort of MH370 as some seem to think..

And... It begs the question as to why ACARS would not relay GPS coordinates.. Surely if is already sending so much data back to HQ, would a set of coordinates really be much more data to send?

ACARS messages are not very long, and depending on the package you subscribe to to ARINC or SITA, this can be expensive. This is why carriers are beginning to look into (and some have moved altogether) outside ACARS...
Again, it's a matter of cost.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-11 22:52:49 and read 72058 times.

Quoting davidzill (Reply 58):
The most significant factor adding to the mystery is that the wrong geographical area has been searched. The B-772 is a great aircraft, being one of most advanced and safest, however something went wrong, it went down, and unfortunately searchers have been covering entirely the wrong geographical area.

At this point, probably not even the military can say for sure, what the "right" geographical search area is. Please note that they started to search the Malacca Strait very early in the process.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-11 22:54:02 and read 72150 times.

I have a CCTV in my house than can be accessed wherever and whenever I want to through my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 device. All I need is just a working WIFI.

Why can't we do the same thing for the plane? Put a live feed cam inside the cockpit, recorded. Then if something happened, we can compare pilot action vs black box results.

A locator device that hidden inside / near black box device that can tell exactly where the plane located, regardless the situation. This way we can locate the plane asap.

I am not an expert technician but I am sure those two items are not super advanced device that requires million of money and brightest scientist to figure it out.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-11 23:00:46 and read 71399 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 62):
Why can't we do the same thing for the plane? Put a live feed cam inside the cockpit, recorded. Then if something happened, we can compare pilot action vs black box results.

From what I remember a pilot group was against it because they were worried the airlines would start watching them. The technology is available. My flight school is installing them in all of our aircraft. The problem though has been people shove the cameras up because they don't want to be spied on the whole flight. I don't care, as I operate by the book. But I could see why people would be wary of it.
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: kmot
Posted 2014-03-11 23:04:32 and read 71091 times.

I have found this in Tomnod...

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/4894

It looks the shape of a plane submerged in water.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-11 23:06:24 and read 70567 times.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 34):
What information is relayed? The AF447 flight obviously had the more advanced subscription and relayed a whole heap of information before crashing - does it supply GPS coordinates? If so I wonder why it took so long to locate the wreckage. If not - it would perhaps not have made as big a difference to the SAR effort of MH370 as some seem to think..

Malaysia had ACARS installed on all its aircraft.

Quote:
All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with continuous data monitoring system called the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) which transmits data automatically. Nevertheless, there were no distress calls and no information was relayed.

Source: http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html (11th Media Statement, cannot be linked directly)

It is undestood that Rolls Royce received two ACARS messages related to MH 370:

Quote:
But New Scientist understands that the maker of the missing Boeing 777's Trent 800 engines, Rolls Royce, received two data reports from flight MH370 at its global engine health monitoring centre in Derby, UK, where it keeps real-time tabs on its engines in use. One was broadcast as MH370 took off from Kuala Lumpur International Airport, the other during the 777's climb out towards Beijing.

Source: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-engine-data-before-vanishing.html


Here are selected quotes from the AF447 final report describing ACARS:

Quote:
ACARS position report for long-haul aircraft.

The basic principle is that real-time position information is received from the monitored aircraft and displayed using the Sailor system. All the position reports are displayed simultaneously on a screen at the OCC and are indicated to a dispatcher as a yellow aircraft. When the aircraft sends its position, it is displayed in green. If the
aircraft’s flight path coincides with the path described in its flight plan then the two aircraft are overlaid.
The actual positions are taken from the ACARS position reports for long-haul aircraft every ten minutes.
So that dispatch can monitor the “true” flight, the position report function must be installed on the aircraft system with the correct registration, and the crew must not
have disabled this function.
If the flight is monitored, the dispatcher will see an orange visual warning in the flight logging interface informing him/her that:
-ˆˆ Three successive position reports have not been received;
-ˆˆ The aircraft has deviated laterally from its scheduled route by more than 30 nautical miles.

Source: http://media.webcastor.fr/vod/bea/pdf2/f-cp090601.en.pdf


Apparently, MH did not have the same level of ACARS monitoring as AF. However, I assume that ACARS should have sent messages of system malfunctions. As there are no such messages, ACARS either itself or its communciations failed or it was turned off.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: rdu2sfo
Posted 2014-03-11 23:06:43 and read 70514 times.

Quoting DeltaAtl (Reply 39):
Pressed repeatedly on what information the military had given authorities, he finally replied that "now is not the time" to reveal it.

I would just hasten to point out that the nefarious part of this quote ("to reveal it") is not quoted from the official but was added by the reporter, and I think puts a significant spin on the actual quote, "now is not the time."

That said, my sense is that the confusion about the Malaysian military's knowledge is being driven by an embarassment that they can't actually give a definitive answer. Once searches began of the Malacca Strait, the military was put in a difficult position because, quite frankly, it is absurd that they can't say whether or not the plane flew over Malaysian territory. The country's military look very bad if an identified aircraft had been allowed to cross the entire peninsula with no knowledge or military response.

Now to throw out another theory:
Is it possible there could have been some issue which causes the transponder and comms to go out, but which is not so serious that the crew feels they need to make an immediate landing, so they change course to head back towards Malaysia but not directly to the nearest airport so they can dump fuel for landing. Then in the process of doing that the situation deteriorates to a point where they lose control and never make it back to land.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-11 23:06:47 and read 70465 times.

Quoting phantomx18 (Reply 54):

I tend to agree, it's difficult to imagine a failure of any kind that would disable the transponder & communications, yet leaving the plane intact enough to be flyable.

Also within last 5 months we have had the LAM Flight 470 & the Egypt Air hijack... And then now for the first time since 2009 a large widebody jetliner disappears midflight. Coincidence? Who knows.

Someone in that airplane could have gotten inspired by these two previous events. Hopefully that isn't the case and there's something else behind this...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-11 23:09:40 and read 70408 times.

Asetiadi,
Question: Who's going to pay for it?
1. The equipment isn't expensive if you already have satcom on the aircraft. If not, then you need to consider the Satcom equipment costs... total equipment cost runs from $100,000 t0 $500,000... (No, the cheapest satcom can't send pictures).
2. The bandwidth costs money. Again, who's going to pay for it? If using Inmarsat SwiftBroadband, We're talking $4-5 per megabyte (for the $500,000 system... otherwise $9 per mb for the $100,000)... streaming costs $5 - 24 per minute depends on the bandwidth you choose.
If you prefer the Ku-band antenna solution, the system is at least $500,000 all in, and the bandwidth is about $3000 - $10,000 depending on who you deal with.

Before anyone says, "great, we can now stream the FDR too!"... well, how U going to stream it when it goes through a barrel roll?   

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 23:12:03 and read 70125 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 64):

It also looks like a ship, a submarine, and a big ship with a small ship next to it, and several other things...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-11 23:12:36 and read 69847 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 64):

I have found this in Tomnod...

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/4894

It looks the shape of a plane submerged in water.

Where? I can't see it....

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 63):
From what I remember a pilot group was against it because they were worried the airlines would start watching them. The technology is available. My flight school is installing them in all of our aircraft. The problem though has been people shove the cameras up because they don't want to be spied on the whole flight. I don't care, as I operate by the book. But I could see why people would be wary of it.
Pat

Well, a job is a job and if you don't do anything illegal, why you have to be afraid of? I don't mind someone recording me during my work. Like what I am gonna do anyway? Watching porn in my computer.... no way =P

the whole idea is to use this for emergency purpose and in this case, this might help a lot solving the MH case.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2014-03-11 23:13:20 and read 69857 times.

I'm not sure what to say after so many days of zero information.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 38):
On behalf of the moderators we apologize. It has been difficult to keep up. The amount of posts we've been getting on the subject is unprecedented.

I thank the mods. The attention is high everywhere. At work it was the lunch conversation among those who couldn't care less about aircarft (at an aerospace vendor... Ok, I don't get their normal lack of interest...). I have been contacted by dozens of friends to find out more... Normally a.net has the links... but there are no links to be had.  

Good or bad, for the families sake I would want some information instead of more conspiracy theories...

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 11):
The Malaysian government has no idea where MH370 is, or where it went. My guess is they are throwing darts at a map on the wall.

I concur.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-11 23:14:32 and read 69733 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 45):
The government know something that they are holding back, but why waste the resources on a SAR mission then if something is known, but not "YET" being shared?

Just answering your question, not saying I believe this is what's happening: Because if they didn't do a SAR, everybody would be wondering why they weren't. And if they're holding something back, they wouldn't want the public questioning that too hard. It actually would make perfect sense if this theory of a hijack and ransom is to be believed. They'd have to go through the motions of a SAR to keep the negotiations secret. However, it would be increasingly difficult to keep that secret, and at this point with so many governments involved, it would seem practically impossible.

Obviously the government is holding something back because they've publicly said they are, but I think it's probably something else.

Personally, I am still sifting through the TomNod satellite images of the water. Although I'm pretty sure I'm looking in the wrong place. (Which is to say TomNod is serving up maps of the wrong water.)

[Edited 2014-03-11 23:17:16]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-11 23:14:45 and read 69818 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 64):

Why don't you make a screendrop and post the image? It's hard to get on that Tomnod.

Btw A while ago Boeing has warned 777 owners which operate often overseas routes to check a weak underneath fuselage skin spot as it can cause cracks due to corrosion which might lead to structure weakness and possible total hull loss.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ngs-over-Boeing-777-weak-spot.html

[Edited 2014-03-11 23:19:16]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 23:16:43 and read 69872 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 70):
Where? I can't see it....

I think this is it.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/ireport/sm/p...percentMikeSeberger-3189824_p9.jpg

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: haynflyer
Posted 2014-03-11 23:17:21 and read 69465 times.

I read this on another message board but did not see it discussed here:

- What if there was a pressurization issue slowly reducing the amount of oxygen.
- Cockpit crew is stressed/not thinking clearly b/c of the lack of oxygen
- Want to land in VVCT in Vietnam as it is close and on their flightpath
- They enter "TRN" into the FMS and instead of selecting TRN in Vietnam, select TRN in Thailand (it shows up first because it is closer)
- They go to squak that they have an emergency and turn their transponder to 'standby' as they select the four digit squak code but forget to turn the transponder back on. As I understand it, some A/L require standby when selecting squak codes to avoid a distress code in error (I don't know if this is the procedure for this airline here).
- Plane flies by AP until it runs out of fuel over the Andaman Sea or farther west.

This would cover all the bases.

You will see that TRN in Thailand is a 90 degree turn to the west, towards the Andaman Sea and agrees with what the Malaysian military had said, albeit a bit farther north.

I'm not sure why Thai radar would not have picked up on it though....

Again, thanks to the poster on that other board for the idea and graphic below:

Two TRNs

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: kmot
Posted 2014-03-11 23:18:45 and read 69465 times.

Here are ships...

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/3759

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/641

This is not a ship.

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/4894

Maybe a reflection....

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 23:20:05 and read 68976 times.

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 75):

What happened to the alarm for a pressurization problem?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-11 23:21:09 and read 69089 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 74):
I think this is it.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/ireport/sm/p...percentMikeSeberger-3189824_p9.jpg

That's a boat with a smaller boat next to it. There are many such boats in these maps. I found one too: http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ture312201415654AM_zpsffa84dcb.jpg

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-11 23:21:29 and read 69024 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 68):
Asetiadi,
Question: Who's going to pay for it?

Hmm... never knew it's gonna be that expensive. Mine is free lol. Well other than paying my monthly internet subscription.

Well at least Boeing or Airbus need to develop something that can track the plane when they are crashed ASAP. We don't want to repeat something like this ever. We are living in 21st century, let's put the technology into a better use.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 9VSIO
Posted 2014-03-11 23:21:35 and read 69027 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 62):

I have a CCTV in my house than can be accessed wherever and whenever I want to through my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 device. All I need is just a working WIFI.

Why can't we do the same thing for the plane? Put a live feed cam inside the cockpit, recorded. Then if something happened, we can compare pilot action vs black box results.

You answered your question in the opening statement. "All I need is..."

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 23:22:44 and read 69003 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 78):
That's a boat with a smaller boat next to it.

I said that in my post...#69

[Edited 2014-03-11 23:23:29]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 23:24:36 and read 68920 times.

Darn old 772, every system on it seems to have failed at once.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: kmot
Posted 2014-03-11 23:27:14 and read 68580 times.

I have updated the map and put the red circle to the left of what I am describing.

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/4894

Possible Aircraft

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-11 23:29:00 and read 68216 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 73):
A while ago Boeing has warned 777 owners which operate often overseas routes to check a weak underneath fuselage skin spot as it can cause cracks due to corrosion which might lead to structure weakness and possible total hull loss

Let's repeat this again... This AD/warning does not apply to this particular aircraft.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 79):
Well at least Boeing or Airbus need to develop something that can track the plane when they are crashed ASAP. We don't want to repeat something like this ever. We are living in 21st century, let's put the technology into a better use.

I hope people don't complain if ticket prices increase to accommodate for this stuff...   
There are already technologies out there to assist in location report in event of emergencies etc... the question is whether the airlines want it or not (which is the main hurdle I am faced with... this is the stuff I sell)...
Also bear in mind, accidents like these are extremely rare... it still happens, but it's statistically getting more rare. This is also a factor to consider...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-11 23:30:18 and read 67738 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 84):

I have updated the map and put the red circle to the left of what I am describing.

what do you see? because I can't figure it out.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: haynflyer
Posted 2014-03-11 23:31:51 and read 67654 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 77):


I am assuming that if they heard an alarm, they would have descended. It would appear either that it didn't go off or that the depressurization was so sudden that they did not have time to descend before being totally incapacitated.

I'm just an armchair pilot so I wouldn't know what one does first in a case like this.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-11 23:32:00 and read 67972 times.

A good summary of Malaysia's bizarre response so far

IS Malaysia laying a deliberate smokescreen?

As the world waits for answers about missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, the families of its 239 lost passengers and crew are getting fed up with official furphies.

And they're not the only ones.

Vietnam has just announced it is suspending its air search for missing flight MH370 and scaling back its sea search as it waits for Malaysia to clarify the potential new direction of the multi-national hunt - not the first clash between the two countries on the issue.

Malaysian authorities have made a number of conflicting statements since Saturday, while failing to address rumours about the plane.



http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...mh370/story-fnizu68q-1226852704012

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-11 23:33:40 and read 67635 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 85):
(which is the main hurdle I am faced with... this is the stuff I sell)...

Wow really? what is your company name? I have an idea of putting a live recording cam inside my car for my driver/kids.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: kmot
Posted 2014-03-11 23:34:07 and read 67793 times.

The arrows point to what appears to be the shape of an aircraft fuselage with wings and a portion of its tail. However I admit it is late and I could be seeing things.


Anotated


[Edited 2014-03-11 23:46:26]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-11 23:34:23 and read 67398 times.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 70):
Well, a job is a job and if you don't do anything illegal, why you have to be afraid of? I don't mind someone recording me during my work. Like what I am gonna do anyway? Watching porn in my computer.... no way =P

It isn't really about being illegal, it's about being spied on. I don't mind the cameras because they are only used in case of an accident. I don't like the thought that someone from an office can watch me flying. Things look a lot different when you're sitting in a comfy desk chair than in the cockpit.

Quoting kmot (Reply 84):
I have updated the map and put the red circle to the left of what I am describing.

Although I see what you're saying I'm skeptical because there is absolutely no debris. I get that the 777 is a strong aircraft. But I have a really hard time believing it went down into the water without anything getting ripped off.
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-11 23:37:10 and read 67130 times.

Re tomnod, I don't see anything at all at map 4894.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: kmot
Posted 2014-03-11 23:37:31 and read 67122 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 90):
Although I see what you're saying I'm skeptical because there is absolutely no debris. I get that the 777 is a strong aircraft. But I have a really hard time believing it went down into the water without anything getting ripped off.
Pat

I cannot remember, was there a debris trail with the 320 that landed in the Hudson? If it was a controlled landing and then it sank... it possible could happen.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-11 23:40:13 and read 66849 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 92):
I cannot remember, was there a debris trail with the 320 that landed in the Hudson? If it was a controlled landing and then it sank... it possible could happen.

Not to my knowledge. But he did it during the day. Your depth perception isn't as good at night, especially on the sea. If they were able to get it down like that it would be an absolute miracle IMO.
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Enobar
Posted 2014-03-11 23:45:13 and read 66193 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 89):

I would have skimmed over that.. but I *can* make out the shape of a plane. Might be seeing what we "want" to see out of desperation (even though we don't really "want" to be seeing a crashed plane of course.

Could the debris field have washed away by now? Perhaps the surrounding areas might reveal some?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2014-03-11 23:48:25 and read 66341 times.

New Straits Times reports life raft found in waters near Port Dickson, just south of KL. There's even a photo of it.

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...en-find-life-raft-near-pd-1.509222

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 11Bravo
Posted 2014-03-11 23:50:43 and read 65540 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 87):
Malaysian authorities have made a number of conflicting statements since Saturday, while failing to address rumours about the plane.

It seems pretty obvious that Malaysian authorities are rank amateurs. If I were the Malaysian authorities I would go looking for some professional help ASAP.
In the mean time I would keep my mouth shut.

1. Professional SAR unified command
2. Professional radar and remote sensing analysts
3. Professional public affairs officer

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-11 23:50:59 and read 65516 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 90):
Although I see what you're saying I'm skeptical because there is absolutely no debris. I get that the 777 is a strong aircraft. But I have a really hard time believing it went down into the water without anything getting ripped off.

This is at least several hours after it would have gone into the water, so debris may have washed away.

As for whether it IS a plane...it certainly looks like it, but the compression artifacts are so bad, it's hard to tell. Is there any way to tell on Tomnod WHERE the actual grid is located? This would have to be VERY shallow water, I'd imagine, to see anything on the seafloor that clearly.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: kmot
Posted 2014-03-11 23:53:32 and read 65373 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 97):
Is there any way to tell on Tomnod WHERE the actual grid is located? This would have to be VERY shallow water, I'd imagine, to see anything on the seafloor that clearly.

Here in lies the problem. I can't tell where I have spotted it. And if they have in fact found a raft, then this is mute...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-11 23:56:37 and read 64825 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 98):
Here in lies the problem. I can't tell where I have spotted it. And if they have in fact found a raft, then this is mute...

Honestly, before reading the raft thing I was ready to say, "No way, it's just a compression glitch in the imagery..."

But if there are rafts out there, there's at least a semi-intact plane out there. Someone has to be the one to find it first. It may well have been you.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-11 23:56:57 and read 64864 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 98):
Here in lies the problem. I can't tell where I have spotted it. And if they have in fact found a raft, then this is mute

The raft is most likely from a ship, not an aircraft. But we will learn shortly, as we have a good photograph of the raft.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: giopan1975
Posted 2014-03-11 23:57:35 and read 64659 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 68):
Question: Who's going to pay for it?

OK then it is all about money and who cares about locating 200+ missed people (dead or alive) in the first seconds of communication loss?

Anyway, how many airplane orders has Boeing been missing during these 5 days of mystery? How much money has evaporated by stocks of related companies falling? How many people will develop fear of flying after such extensive global media coverage of the event? We are in 2014 and a super dooper high tech huge airplane just dissapears and noone is having a clue about what has happened.

Again you will argue that people do not have any alternative, they will keep on using the airplane and most of this story will be forgotten after 6 months, profitability will return to wished levels.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: XFSUgimpLB41X
Posted 2014-03-11 23:59:15 and read 64853 times.

Quoting kmot (Reply 83):
I have updated the map and put the red circle to the left of what I am describing.

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/.../4894

It does look like an airplane, but look at the scale and compare it to the object. Aft of the "wing" is longer than the 777-200 is in total length.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 00:01:55 and read 64519 times.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 102):
It does look like an airplane, but look at the scale and compare it to the object. Aft of the "wing" is longer than the 777-200 is in total length.

Looking again I am back to thinking it's a compression artifact, but if not:

The "line" of the aft portion is offset slightly from perpendicular to the wing box (if we assume that those are wings), suggesting the tail has broken off and may be lying separately from the wings.

In fact, the two smaller patches down and left seem almost triangular, like stabilizers.

But that's really, really stretching it. What would a submerged white aircraft look like in these kinds of waters? Grayish-blue, I guess, but man.

Note how whatever it is is conveniently in the middle of a band of "smoother" compression within the left-to-right gradient in that image. I don't know enough about compression algorithms of satellite imagery to go beyond noting it, but it is interesting.

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:06:26]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: woodentom
Posted 2014-03-12 00:03:18 and read 64635 times.

Finding a raft sounds very positive but am amazed it has been found so close to KL. The currents maybe strong in the area.

Also from reading the posts and understanding how strange the Malaysian authorities have been, a sceptical person could think the raft has been planted in the sea in order to be found.........

Do rafts have individual codes to each plane so we know for sure it was from the 777??

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Enobar
Posted 2014-03-12 00:03:21 and read 64718 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 100):
The raft is most likely from a ship, not an aircraft. But we will learn shortly, as we have a good photograph of the raft.

You think its from a ship? I think it looks like it says "Boeing" on that red sticker.. but then again if it did say Boeing, wouldn't you take a clear photo of it if you were the fisherman?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: gr325
Posted 2014-03-12 00:04:16 and read 64472 times.

Well according to the text in the article it says Boarding.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Enobar
Posted 2014-03-12 00:08:23 and read 63935 times.

Quoting gr325 (Reply 106 Well according to the text in the article it says Boarding. ):

Oh, I skipped right over the headline... urgh. Does anyone have any knowledge of what kind of information is printed on the life rafts? I can't imagine they would have "Boarding" written on them.. unless that donates the side which it is boarded from (i.e. the part which sits against the aircraft).

If it is from the plane, is it likely to have floated free without having been accessed by passengers? Surely it could be a sign that there are (or were) survivors?

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:10:00]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-12 00:10:04 and read 63411 times.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 105):
You think its from a ship? I think it looks like it says "Boeing" on that red sticker.. but then again if it did say Boeing, wouldn't you take a clear photo of it if you were the fisherman?

Do the rafts actually say Boeing though? I would think Boeing wouldn't want to put their logo on it. Not exactly the best PR after a crash to see a bunch of liferafts floating around with Boeing plastered across them. I would expect them to say Goodrich or whoever made them.
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: PhilV
Posted 2014-03-12 00:10:12 and read 63627 times.

Something from Vung Tau region again.

http://twitpic.com/dy1qmm

Thought it was ruled out.. Maybe fake?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: rwessel
Posted 2014-03-12 00:11:46 and read 63062 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
Of course the issue is that without electrics you would have no instruments beyond the whiskey compass. At night over the ocean that makes having the flight controls somewhat moot since you have no way of orienting yourself.

The standby instruments have their own battery, do they not? Certainly that's a standard feature on the standbys on smaller aircraft.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 00:16:24 and read 62696 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 103):
Looking again I am back to thinking it's a compression artifact, but if not:

The "line" of the aft portion is offset slightly from perpendicular to the wing box (if we assume that those are wings), suggesting the tail has broken off and may be lying separately from the wings.

In fact, the two smaller patches down and left seem almost triangular, like stabilizers.

In grid 1594, so ~.5mi SE of the object or whatever discussed above in grid 4894, seems to be a slick of some kind.

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/1594

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/4894

Edit: Nevermind. A different sort of artifact from the shadows of clouds on the water, which turn yellowish-green in this imagery.

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:21:41]

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:22:01]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: rwessel
Posted 2014-03-12 00:17:00 and read 62317 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 103):
Do rafts have individual codes to each plane so we know for sure it was from the 777??

A certified raft would have a serial number, and the airline should know which serial number rafts are on which aircraft.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: phantomx18
Posted 2014-03-12 00:17:10 and read 62459 times.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 107):

From searching pictures on the internet, it appears that airplane life rafts do have the words "Boarding" on them to show survivors which side has the opening to climb into. But I am assuming that a raft that came off a ship would have the same wording, so this is not conclusive, although it might be the first break through in this mystery.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Enobar
Posted 2014-03-12 00:17:21 and read 62271 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 108):
Do the rafts actually say Boeing though? I would think Boeing wouldn't want to put their logo on it. Not exactly the best PR after a crash to see a bunch of liferafts floating around with Boeing plastered across them. I would expect them to say Goodrich or whoever made them.
Pat

I am inclined to agree with you - It is probably not the worlds best PR to have your logo all over something like a life raft.. but on the other hand, I wouldn't have been surprised for it to have "Boeing 777-200" written on it as a means to identify the correct equipment being installed onto aircraft. I would assume that somewhere it would have an indication of what aircraft it belongs to, though perhaps not so large.

Also, if that was discovered yesterday, surely it has been verified/ruled out by now..

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: haynflyer
Posted 2014-03-12 00:22:27 and read 62110 times.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 107):
I can't imagine they would have "Boarding" written on them.. unless that donates the side which it is boarded from (i.e. the part which sits against the aircraft).

Here's a picture of a life raft. There is the word "Boarding" to indicate where to board.

http://www.raftservice.com/aviation/eam-rafts-t-12.php

While this may not be Boeing life raft nor one that could be used on a ship, yes, they do he word "Boarding" on them.

Unbelievable that they let it get away! But then again, par for the course here.....

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-12 00:22:35 and read 62015 times.

"However, a Kuala Linggi MMEA spokesman said the raft sunk into the sea while they were trying to bring the raft onboard."

 

Cheers
Coal

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 00:23:00 and read 61689 times.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 55):
Is this article from CNN accurate?

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 53):
Just saw this on CNN. Quite an interesting take:

http://us.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/a...der-explainer/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


Because if so, I refer to my original question which I asked about why ACARS doesn't transmit a GPS location. Starlionblue replied (and I thank you for your input, but want to follow up)


Because you don't expect to need ACARS to send a position. It is primarily a maintenance system. The AF447 thing was purely fortuitous in context. You already have multiple ways of communicating and it is rather unlikely that they will all fail. Say the pilots are incapacitated, then the transponder would still be active. If the transponder breaks I'm pretty sure airliners have a second one, plus all the radios. Barring foul play (pulling all the breakers), if you're in a situation where absolutely none of that is working, the situation is probably so catastrophic an automated ACARS message won't do anything to save lives.
- Transponder. 2x
- VHF radio. 2-3x
- HF radio. 2x
- Datalink messaging in some cases.
- Satphone in some cases.
- If you are in visual range, you can signal with aircraft lights and receive from a light gun.

See also below.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 55):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 36):
There is already a system to determine location: the transponder.

From what i understand from that CNN article the transponder does not send out the aircrafts location per say, rather it only identifies itself when it is on ATC radar systems. So the difference between the transponder and ACARS actively sending GPS coordinates would be that you would still have a location fix on the plane when it is out of range of ATC.

Am I misinterpreting the article? (Or is CNN wrong?). If my understanding is correct, wouldn't it still be useful to have ACARS broadcasting GPS locations with its other information?

CNN article is correct but it only talks about Mode A (code) and Mode C (pressure altitude). A basic transponder like you'd find in a Cessna 172. A bit annoying because it doesn't really help us much with this event.

Airliner transponders do much more than that. In simple terms, with Mode S, transponders can send out position, heading, speed and gobs of other information. Most of the information you see on FlightRadar24 would be blank without Mode S.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 60):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):
In the case of 777, 320, 330-340 you end up in what is called manual reversion.

Manual reversion is only there in terms of total systems failure ie: the HYD AND ELEC systems are unpowered. The 737 has manual reversion... 777, 320, 330, 340, 767, 747 do not.

Thx for clarifying.

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:29:58]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: phantomx18
Posted 2014-03-12 00:25:48 and read 61188 times.

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 116):

Apparently fishermen were better equipped to hold on to that raft than SAR crew was. . .geez, this would make for great comedy if it wasn't such a tragic situation.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 00:26:49 and read 60849 times.

Question about Tomnod. I get the Tomnod logo and then a big blank grey-blue square. No controls or imagery. Any ideas?

Quoting rwessel (Reply 110):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
Of course the issue is that without electrics you would have no instruments beyond the whiskey compass. At night over the ocean that makes having the flight controls somewhat moot since you have no way of orienting yourself.

The standby instruments have their own battery, do they not? Certainly that's a standard feature on the standbys on smaller aircraft.

Hitting head on desk now. Must check books in my shelf before posting. Yes I think you are right. Ok but if it is "no electrics at all" we have to fail them too. 

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 00:27:18 and read 60998 times.

http://www.rfd.co.nz/products/marine...-liferafts/dsb-lr07,-lr-97rsr.aspx

These look closer to the raft in the photo (black and orange, rather than yellow, as I understood aviation rafts to be).

Unfortunately listed as "marine" liferafts.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 00:28:04 and read 60784 times.

I am sorry, but I have been busy with school all day. I am sure I would have heard, though, but just in case I am going to ask: Did rescuers find anything?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 00:30:37 and read 60232 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 122):
I am sorry, but I have been busy with school all day. I am sure I would have heard, though, but just in case I am going to ask: Did rescuers find anything?

Zippo except maybe that raft.

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:32:08]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 00:31:31 and read 60377 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 122):

I am sorry, but I have been busy with school all day. I am sure I would have heard, though, but just in case I am going to ask: Did rescuers find anything?

A raft, that promptly sank before they identified it.

You can't make this up....

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 00:32:06 and read 59956 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 123):
Zippo.

OK, thank you and for all of your help in the previous threads as well. That is terrible and unbelievable. Didn't we have some things recovered from AF447 by this point.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 00:33:33 and read 60063 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 124):
A raft, that promptly sank before they identified it.

You can't make this up....

That is bizarre. How did they even know it was a raft and how does a life raft just sink, esp. one used on a long haul airliner.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 00:35:25 and read 60364 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 126):
That is bizarre. How did they even know it was a raft and how does a life raft just sink, esp. one used on a long haul airliner.

Fishermen grabbed it, photographed it, and waited for SAR. SAR lost it somehow when they got there. SE of Kuala Lumpur, so way outside any of the search areas.

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...en-find-life-raft-near-pd-1.509222

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 00:35:26 and read 60682 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 126):
Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 124):
A raft, that promptly sank before they identified it.

You can't make this up....

That is bizarre. How did they even know it was a raft and how does a life raft just sink, esp. one used on a long haul airliner.

If this is the raft, then at least there are pics. http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...en-find-life-raft-near-pd-1.509222

Regarding sinking, the bladders could have been waterlogged.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Enobar
Posted 2014-03-12 00:37:06 and read 60162 times.

Quoting phantomx18 (Reply 119):
Apparently fishermen were better equipped to hold on to that raft than SAR crew was. . .geez, this would make for great comedy if it wasn't such a tragic situation.

This is bound to be met with a fresh wave of cries of "coverup". How could the absolute muppets running the SAR operation allow what could be the first break in the investigation literally slip out of their hands..  


Also,

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 118):
CNN article is correct but it only talks about Mode A (code) and Mode C (pressure altitude). A basic transponder like you'd find in a Cessna 172. A bit annoying because it doesn't really help us much with this event.

Airliner transponders do much more than that. In simple terms, with Mode S, transponders can send out position, heading, speed and gobs of other information. Most of the information you see on FlightRadar24 would be blank without Mode S.

Thanks for the clarification. Interestingly enough you say that it would be unlikely that all those methods would fail, yet we seem to be looking at that very situation (barring human intervention in turning it off..). I bring this up not to argue, but because I'm wondering if there is now the possibility that the electrical failures were so severe that the black boxes could have been knocked out too? Is that possible - i seem to recall that in some previous accidents at least the CVR has been disabled (though my memory fails to bring a specific one to mind).

Also, do modern data/voice recorders operate for longer than they used to? didn't they once only record 30 minutes or so on a loop?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 00:39:17 and read 59752 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 127):
Fishermen grabbed it, photographed it, and waited for SAR. SAR lost it somehow when they got there. SE of Kuala Lumpur, so way outside any of the search areas.

So SAR let it get away? Even though it was far away from the search area, it could still be something because of how much time it has been drifting, unless the currents make it impossible for it to go that far. Was it a life raft that could be used in an airplane?

It seems like, though, officials don't have any ideas as to what the actual search area is because now everyone seems to be so enthralled with the idea it made a major turn.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 128):
Regarding sinking, the bladders could have been waterlogged.

Thank you. I did not realize that.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 00:45:31 and read 59039 times.

My two favored speculative scenarios right now are as follows.
- Catastrophic failure with pilots incapacitated and transponder down. Perhaps a electrical fire in the center console knocking out comms and pilots succumb to noxious gas inhalation. The plane glides intact to crash in a forested area far from habitation. This sequence of events is of course ludicrously unlikely but not completely outside the realm of possibility.
- Hijacking or other such shenanigans.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 129):
Thanks for the clarification. Interestingly enough you say that it would be unlikely that all those methods would fail, yet we seem to be looking at that very situation (barring human intervention in turning it off..). I bring this up not to argue, but because I'm wondering if there is now the possibility that the electrical failures were so severe that the black boxes could have been knocked out too? Is that possible - i seem to recall that in some previous accidents at least the CVR has been disabled (though my memory fails to bring a specific one to mind).

The recorders are at the other end of the plane but of course that's not where they get their electricity.

As I see it, if all that comms stuff actually suffers a failure, you're dead because it would imply a ridiculous amount of other things have failed also.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 129):
Also, do modern data/voice recorders operate for longer than they used to? didn't they once only record 30 minutes or so on a loop?

30 minutes is the mandatory legal minimum if memory serves. Some modern recorders go longer. However remember that the 777 is a 20 year old model so the FDR may well be at least as as old in design.

Then again, more than 30 minutes is not really needed.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 131):

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 126):
Didn't we have some things recovered from AF447 by this point.

I am asking again.

Yes. Several things in fact. They found stuff on day two.

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:47:50]

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:54:44]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-12 00:47:05 and read 58517 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 65):
Apparently, MH did not have the same level of ACARS monitoring as AF. However, I assume that ACARS should have sent messages of system malfunctions. As there are no such messages, ACARS either itself or its communciations failed or it was turned off.

Has any information been released about the frequency of MH's ACARS communications or triggers for them? With AF447 they were very frequent, sometimes faults being report several times a minute. Even if MH's 'account' transmitted every 30 minutes then there should be a record of location after turning back, if indeed they did and if not then the original search area is where to look. If ACARS was switched off then that's another puzzle.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: PanAmPaul
Posted 2014-03-12 00:48:01 and read 58739 times.

Malaysian officials are contradicting one another. Now the Air Force is saying that the plane did not head over the Strait.

Malaysian Air Force: Plane Did Not Detour Over Strait

To wit:

Quote:
A Malaysian air force official added to the confusion surrounding the search for the missing Malaysian Airlines flight when he categorically rejected reports that the Malaysian military had tracked the plane by radar over the Strait of Malacca, one of the world’s busiest maritime shipping channels....

.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 00:50:14 and read 57969 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 133):
Has any information been released about the frequency of MH's ACARS communications or triggers for them? With AF447 they were very frequent, sometimes faults being report several times a minute. Even if MH's 'account' transmitted every 30 minutes then there should be a record of location after turning back, if indeed they did and if not then the original search area is where to look. If ACARS was switched off then that's another puzzle.

Only if the ACARS reports included position, and I don't think that is a given.

You're also assuming that the plane flew for a bit after turning.

And what if there were no faults to report? Transponder CB pulled. Keep flying. Nothing wrong mechanically so as I understand it ACARS would says nothing.

[Edited 2014-03-12 00:56:39]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: tim73
Posted 2014-03-12 00:51:09 and read 58126 times.

Strait of Malacca, about 70000 ships yearly, almost 200 per day. Half of world's shipping traffic. Most of those ship will sail further into South China Sea. So about 1000 bigger ships have been sailing there in sunny weather during last five days. Plus thousands of smaller fish and other boats all around. 22-25 planes and 40+ ships from nine different nations searching.

Still, not even one possible debris sighting!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: gr325
Posted 2014-03-12 00:57:00 and read 57570 times.

My colleague found this in Tomnod

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/221

Any thoughts?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: johnsonseattle
Posted 2014-03-12 00:57:20 and read 57500 times.

I spotted something that looks to me like a fuel or oil slick in the Tomnod imagery. Centered around map 11206, but extending a few maps to the left and right.

There are oil rigs elsewhere in this map sector, but not immediately adjacent to the tagged area.

Does anyone know if tagging these actually calls attention to them somehow?



http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/11206

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 00:57:34 and read 57307 times.

Thank you to everyone who responded to my AF447 question. I can say that this is now 100% different than AF447 rather than 99%.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: zeke
Posted 2014-03-12 00:59:52 and read 57181 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 95):
New Straits Times reports life raft found in waters near Port Dickson, just south of KL. There's even a photo of it.

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...en-find-life-raft-near-pd-1.509222

Most airliners that I am aware of, including the 777 have silver slide rafts, have a look at the SFO accident photos.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: milestones787
Posted 2014-03-12 01:00:41 and read 57054 times.

OK I have a very newbie kinda question that I might as well ask: With the importance that the transponder carries, why is it even able to be turned off? Is there any practical reason when it is needed to be turned off?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: barney captain
Posted 2014-03-12 01:05:08 and read 56520 times.

Quoting milestones787 (Reply 143):
OK I have a very newbie kinda question that I might as well ask: With the importance that the transponder carries, why is it even able to be turned off? Is there any practical reason when it is needed to be turned off?

It is turned off at the gate to prevent saturation of the airports ground surveillance radar.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-12 01:15:17 and read 55142 times.

As it is 9 AM here and I've got to work a lot, I don't have the time now to read most of thread #14 and all the posts of #15, but I'm happy to see activity on the little wiki I opened yesterday. And I know that a.net admins may see this as an advertising, but I rather see it as a valuable resource for the our MH370 discussions.

Please paste there what we know - for example last positions, technical information concerning radars (PSR, SSR) and also debunked "facts". It really helps when answering to newbies who haven't read the past 14 threads!


airliners.net MH370 wiki



David

[Edited 2014-03-12 01:17:53]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: chrcaremanav
Posted 2014-03-12 01:19:14 and read 54614 times.

Hi! How are You? It is not easy time for Aviation Enthusiasts, that tragedy is confusing. Here is something to consider, maybe it is worth something or not, here is the article in question and take good care.

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v7/ge/newsgeneral.php?id=1021242

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: aerocabin
Posted 2014-03-12 01:19:40 and read 54857 times.

BBC World News reported that there is going to be another press conference at 4:30pm in Malaysia (so in around 12 minutes).

The Telegraph has also reported this:
"08.12 According to our correspondent in Kuala Lumpur, The press are now reassembling for government press conference about search operations. We hope it will start in 20 minutes, at 4.30pm local time."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rlines-MH370-plane-crash-live.html

Let's hope there's some more information released on the search efforts.

aerocabin

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SQ452
Posted 2014-03-12 01:21:03 and read 54324 times.

The problem with the contradicting information is there doesn't appear to be any "unified" press spokesperson; you have the transport minister, the director general, the CEO of MAS, and so on and so forth all seemingly doing their own thing and making their own statements, then the military comes in at the 11th hour to contradict something that has already been said hours earlier. It's nuts. Crisis management training anyone? I know in a crisis there is usually a very fluid situation and information is evolving and changing constantly but if you have someone with proper crisis management training then they'll be able to filter everything and get information out to the public in a unified and succinct way so that it doesn't look like amateur hour at the podium.

On another note, anyone else having trouble getting Tomnod loading on their comp? It won't load for the life of me and I am ready to look at some maps and help with the search. I am honestly at a loss for words as to what happened with this aircraft, so puzzling.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-12 01:25:43 and read 54136 times.

Quoting PhilV (Reply 109):
Something from Vung Tau region again.

http://twitpic.com/dy1qmm

Thought it was ruled out.. Maybe fake?

The report itself looks legitimate, the question is what he actually saw. He estimated the object to be 50-70km... that's quite a distance.

His rig location, marked to the right in yellow with the object he apparently observed in red:



Quoting gr325 (Reply 139):
My colleague found this in Tomnod

Access to Tomnod appears to be iffy for many at the moment. It would help if people could post screenshots here (rather than direct links to their maps) so others can see the image in question. This would also help take some of the load off their already overloaded servers.

Quoting milestones787 (Reply 143):
why is it even able to be turned off? Is there any practical reason when it is needed to be turned off?

It's been addressed in more detail further up.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
On another note, anyone else having trouble getting Tomnod loading on their comp?

Yep.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-12 01:31:47 and read 53202 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 150):
Access to Tomnod appears to be iffy for many at the moment. It would help if people could post screenshots here (rather than direct links to their maps) so others can see the image in question. This would also help take some of the load off their already overloaded servers.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1103537

There's also a page about this in the MH370 wiki, see http://mh370.wikia.com/wiki/Discussi...ject_%28ship%3F%29_found_on_Tomnod


David

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-12 01:35:09 and read 52465 times.

Is the press conference happening? It's 4:30pm here in SE Asia but CNN is not airing anything.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 01:36:23 and read 52319 times.

Quoting milestones787 (Reply 143):

OK I have a very newbie kinda question that I might as well ask: With the importance that the transponder carries, why is it even able to be turned off? Is there any practical reason when it is needed to be turned off?

This has been covered. Transponders need to have an off switch and a circuit breaker for a few reasons.
1. To prevent saturation at busy airports and in busy airspace.
2. During maintenance when the plane is powered up on the ground without the intent of moving it.
3. Most importantly, in order to be able to isolate the electrical circuit if it malfunctions. All circuits on the plane can be cut with a circuit breaker in the cockpit because if you have, say, electrical arcing, you want to shut the darned thing off before anything catches fire.

Circuit breakers are an important safety feature on any circuit. If the transponder system is changed so it cannot be turned off, you are introducing a host of new risks which will endanger far more flights than the one every decade or two that can't be found immediately. Consider also that if this plane has crashed and everyone is dead, an always on transponder wouldn't have saved any lives.

[Edited 2014-03-12 01:38:15]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-12 01:40:58 and read 51701 times.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 145):
Frankly, tragic as it may be, it is time for somebody to step up and officially declare the plane lost and everybody dead, for which there is a 99.9% probability. The French did it within the day, and I believe it was the best they could have done for the relatives.

In the unthinkable event that the airplane will never be found, which jurisdiction/authority actually declares the passengers officially deceased?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: iberiadc852
Posted 2014-03-12 01:42:26 and read 51918 times.

Quoting phantomx18 (Reply 54):

I woke up this morning with this idea in my head, and I apology for the personal implications, but the issue of flying off course, at the height to be undetected, with no "understandable" terrorist target provoking this havoc sounds to me much more probable related with an skilled but altered professional pilot's mind than a terrorist one or a concadenation of high technology security systems going mad while letting the plane still flying for quite a long time after.

Someone said many threads ago to check the pilot's last FS flights, and it sounded ridiculous to me, but now I admit I see it not so crazy now, at least to check if there was something not normal about his behaviour lately. (And sorry again for these kind of implications).

On the other hand, can actually a pilot lock himself alone in the cockpit when the other one is out (bathrom i.e.). Isn't there a way for the other one?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-12 01:48:14 and read 50666 times.

http://www.astroawani.com/videos/live

Going live in a second it seems

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-12 01:48:43 and read 51000 times.

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 153):
Isn't there a way for the other one?

Most airlines have a secondary, emergency code for the flight deck door lock to allow access in such a situation.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SQ452
Posted 2014-03-12 01:48:44 and read 51389 times.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 150):
There's also a page about this in the MH370 wiki, see http://mh370.wikia.com/wiki/Discussi...omnod

That looks eerily similar to a 777 fuselage. How to further relay these coordinates to rescuers? (assume this has already been done). If the plane ditched similar to the miracle on the Hudson, then its possible the thing sank in whole parts.

Quoting Coal (Reply 151):
Is the press conference happening? It's 4:30pm here in SE Asia but CNN is not airing anything.

Cheers
Coal

It hasn't started but abcnews.com has a live feed. Everyone is waiting for something to start.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: johnsonseattle
Posted 2014-03-12 01:52:03 and read 50756 times.

Quoting johnsonseattle (Reply 140):

I spotted something that looks to me like a fuel or oil slick in the Tomnod imagery. Centered around map 11206, but extending a few maps to the left and right.

There are oil rigs elsewhere in this map sector, but not immediately adjacent to the tagged area.

Quoting flood (Reply 150):
The report itself looks legitimate, the question is what he actually saw. He estimated the object to be 50-70km... that's quite a distance.

His rig location, marked to the right in yellow with the object he apparently observed in red:

The two the things I had tagged as oil/gas slicks are highlighted in yellow. Nearby oil platform is highlighted in purple (map 13729)



I can't figure out how to find any kind of location data from Tomnod, so I have no idea if this is the platform referenced in that email/letter, but it seemed interesting to me. It seems too close to the platform, unless the slick had drifted.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-12 01:52:39 and read 50475 times.

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 153):
On the other hand, can actually a pilot lock himself alone in the cockpit when the other one is out (bathrom i.e.). Isn't there a way for the other one?

The pilot in the cockpit can change the door security code, and I think that was done by the co-pilot of JetBlue Flight 191 to keep the erratically acting captain out of the cockpit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue_Airways_Flight_191

In the case of MH 370, it would be the erratically acting pilot who would be locking out the other one, and possibly after that de-pressurizing the cabin to prevent forced entry into the cockpit, for example. It is scary that scenarios like these cannot be ruled out based on the current information.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: dc863
Posted 2014-03-12 01:54:30 and read 50068 times.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 155):
If the plane ditched similar to the miracle on the Hudson, then its possible the thing sank in whole parts.

Ditching at night with no moon and no outside lights would be nigh impossible.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-12 01:59:44 and read 49536 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 153):
In the unthinkable event that the airplane will never be found, which jurisdiction/authority actually declares the passengers officially deceased?

I can only answer for the Swiss laws, and you can hope that this regulation is similar across the world:

In Switzerland, the last known place of residence is relevant. If a somebody who lived in Switzerland perished in MH370, it's the Swiss authorities who declare him dead*. Switzerland also honors foreign notices of disappearance if the country of origin (citizenship) or the country of last known residence has issued it.

*: After a life-threatening situation, a person can be declared dead if one year has passed without a sign of life. According to our law, though. German law allows somebody to be declared dead three months after an air disaster.


David

[Edited 2014-03-12 02:10:57]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-12 02:00:30 and read 49265 times.

Sky news did report there will be a press conference..so assuming it's going ahead.

Cheers.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-12 02:03:00 and read 48932 times.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 158):

Yeah, also on cnbc they are waiting and 'break in' the current program when the press conference is starting

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: janbrubel
Posted 2014-03-12 02:04:03 and read 49072 times.

Life raft confirmed NOT to be from MH370, says MMEA.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: airbuster
Posted 2014-03-12 02:04:53 and read 48814 times.

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 153):
On the other hand, can actually a pilot lock himself alone in the cockpit when the other one is out (bathrom i.e.). Isn't there a way for the other one?

The locked out pilot would try to regain acces by using a emergency acces code. A alert then goes off in the flight deck and the pilot in there has 30 seconds to deny entry, if not, the door opens. There is also a mechanical lock which one can use. I would suspect that the latter be used if you want to lock someone out. See the Ethiopian hijack.

I just can't get my head around the fact that we lost a 777 since 5 days without a clue. Amazing.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-12 02:08:02 and read 48384 times.

Quoting dc863 (Reply 156):
Ditching at night with no moon and no outside lights would be nigh impossible.

If the plane had flown maximum time allowed by the remaining fuel, is there any chance it had reached dawn before ditching or crashing? If we assume that the plane was at 2:40 AM Malaysian time west of Malay peninsula?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-12 02:08:33 and read 48070 times.

Btw. I am wondering what they are gonna tell during the press conference. I am afraid that nothing news will be told:
- not found yet
- explanation of the search near palau penak
- china has upscaled searc effort
- try our best
- thanks for listening

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-12 02:12:24 and read 47665 times.

Quoting 456 (Reply 163):
Btw. I am wondering what they are gonna tell during the press conference. I am afraid that nothing news will be told:

Sky news reporter just quoted a source as saying "interesting" information will be shared ...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: art
Posted 2014-03-12 02:12:29 and read 47549 times.

To me it is becoming increasingly likely that the aircraft will not be found if it came down in the sea. Affected by wind and currents, any debris found on the surface may have drifted a very long distance from where it came down.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-12 02:18:14 and read 47049 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 162):

I think those people still not sure exactly what time it disappeared. Feels like they all hitting darts in a dark, pitch dark. That 2 hour period from when it disappeared till Malaysian official woke up sound silly to me.

I am so annoyed 5 days and not a single firm clue, I can't imagine those poor relatives of pax, must be so difficult to cope with this situation.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 02:19:14 and read 46720 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 162):

Quoting dc863 (Reply 156):
Ditching at night with no moon and no outside lights would be nigh impossible.

If the plane had flown maximum time allowed by the remaining fuel, is there any chance it had reached dawn before ditching or crashing? If we assume that the plane was at 2:40 AM Malaysian time west of Malay peninsula?

Yes, it would have had fuel to fly until local morning. However if it was flying west of course morning comes later.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: LH526
Posted 2014-03-12 02:19:44 and read 46391 times.

Quoting art (Reply 165):

To me it is becoming increasingly likely that the aircraft will not be found if it came down in the sea. Affected by wind and currents, any debris found on the surface may have drifted a very long distance from where it came down.

Byond all chaos theorie, there are digital models calculating maritime currents, they are not 100% accurate but get quite close. If debris is being found over the next days, It should be no rocket science to trace it back where it was floating a week before.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-12 02:21:54 and read 46046 times.

Quoting art (Reply 165):

Maybe it's time for a collaborative effort of all navies - to map the sea floor of major shipping/traffic routes using side-scan sonar.

This might very well help historians who are on the look-out for sunken ships, be it of the 17th century, or World War II. This could help oceanographers. It could be a training opportunity for, God forbid, future accidents like AF447.

But the oceans are HUGE. We still know more about the other planets than about our oceans.


David

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 345tas
Posted 2014-03-12 02:23:54 and read 45736 times.

Quoting aerobalance (Reply 7):
He may not have said it, but somebody did. Why are they searching in that area, just for the heck of it?
Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 132):

Malaysian officials are contradicting one another. Now the Air Force is saying that the plane did not head over the Strait.

Malaysian Air Force: Plane Did Not Detour Over Strait

To wit:

That article distorts WSJ's reporting. Note the journalist did not use any quotation from the Air Chief's statement. In the statement he did not go anywhere near 'categorically denying' that the aircraft reached the Straits of Malacca. He only refuted a quote that was attributed to him by a Malaysian newspaper. You can read his statement in the previous threads.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Viper911
Posted 2014-03-12 02:27:10 and read 45215 times.

Quoting PhilV (Reply 109):
Something from Vung Tau region again.

http://twitpic.com/dy1qmm

Thought it was ruled out.. Maybe fake?

There's always something with Vung Tau region (the pilot, the debris field and this letter now) and yes I know pilot and debris field were ruled out,or maybe they aren't false after all.. I personally think that they should look off Vung Tau. I don't want to sound rude or disrespect but I was reading all the threads since day 1 and I can easily say that the Malaysian authorities are feeding us with a bunch of c**p info in the past few days, they don't know how to deal with this issue themselves. IMO the only reason the air plane or the debris haven't been found yet it's because everyone is looking in the wrong places.

Personally I'm sure (if) it will be found SE of Ho Chi Minh city and Vung Tau area, that's my hunch.

Viper911

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SQ452
Posted 2014-03-12 02:29:58 and read 44800 times.

Quoting dc863 (Reply 156):
Ditching at night with no moon and no outside lights would be nigh impossible.

Yeah I hadn't thought about that. Fair point. Enough moonlight, maybe. but the chances are slim.

Also, these reports surfacing about how a few years ago the co-pilot allowed female passengers into the cockpit on an HKT>KUL flight, I am inclined to believe. Why else would these people come forward and lie? If it is true, then this is serious breach in security for Malaysia Airlines. Passengers in the cockpit during flight AND smoking in the flight deck are all major no-no's.

By the way, what are the rules for smoking in the cockpit during flight? I've been on a number of airlines in Asia (not going to name names out of respect to them) where I have smelled cigarette smoke near the cockpit door inflight (such as when I was using the forward lavatory) and through the above seat air vents. I never witnessed a pilot lighting up inflight but all the evidence was there that there was some smoking going on during the flight by the cockpit crew. I thought this was pretty much banned by all airlines no?

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 164):
Sky news reporter just quoted a source as saying "interesting" information will be shared ...

Perhaps that is causing the delay as to why this thing hasn't started yet.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-12 02:35:41 and read 43808 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 151):
Going live in a second it seems

Starting now

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2014-03-12 02:37:02 and read 43580 times.

Quoting iberiadc852 (Reply 150):
On the other hand, can actually a pilot lock himself alone in the cockpit when the other one is out (bathrom i.e.). Isn't there a way for the other one?
Quoting Finn350 (Reply 155):
The pilot in the cockpit can change the door security code, and I think that was done by the co-pilot of JetBlue Flight 191 to keep the erratically acting captain out of the cockpit.

Yes he can lock the door from the inside. He can set the door control to "deny", which will electronically stop the door box from opening the door or he can simply slide the backup deadbolt on the door into the locked position.
The code cannot be changed easily. One needs a screwdriver to remove an access panel and access to both sides of the door.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 02:38:03 and read 43551 times.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 172):
Also, these reports surfacing about how a few years ago the co-pilot allowed female passengers into the cockpit on an HKT>KUL flight, I am inclined to believe. Why else would these people come forward and lie?

You'd be surprised what people do for attention.

Might be true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was bogus.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 172):
By the way, what are the rules for smoking in the cockpit during flight? I've been on a number of airlines in Asia (not going to name names out of respect to them) where I have smelled cigarette smoke near the cockpit door inflight (such as when I was using the forward lavatory) and through the above seat air vents. I never witnessed a pilot lighting up inflight but all the evidence was there that there was some smoking going on during the flight by the cockpit crew. I thought this was pretty much banned by all airlines no?

Not at all. Many airlines still allow it. I don't know about MH though.

It really isn't a safety hazard given what the cockpit furnishings are made of though.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-12 02:38:46 and read 43140 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 173):

Jep
Started

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: tortugamon
Posted 2014-03-12 02:39:52 and read 43515 times.

I thought it would be interesting to note the number of statements about the search that have been contradicted a short while later

-When the aircraft disappeared
-Where it was when it disappeared
-Only those who bought tickets were on board
-The aircraft made it to the straights of Malacca
-China is widening search to areas on land

I am sure I am missing others but I have come to the conclusion that reading anything about this disappearance is a waste of time as it has as much of a chance as being accurate as it does not. I am beginning to think that those interested in finding the aircraft will have to wait more than a week. As wide as the search is now, its pretty evident that they have no idea where it is.

tortugamon

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: dtfg
Posted 2014-03-12 02:40:07 and read 44269 times.

Breaking: Body in life vest found in Malacca

http://hen.chinadaily.com.cn/n/2014-03-12/NEWS13754.html

The report said the body was found by rescue volunteers. Waiting for official statement.



[Edited 2014-03-12 02:45:13]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-12 02:42:53 and read 42990 times.

Nothing new. I am surprised the search area (the two areas combined I mean) is not that big, just about the size of my German home state Hessen, something you could cross in two hours by car if on land.

Only thing thats clear now is that they do not trust the military radar obviously as they are still searching in the area where primary contact was lost.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 345tas
Posted 2014-03-12 02:43:31 and read 42952 times.

I note he's still not confirming or denying the detection of the aircraft flying back into the Straits.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-12 02:45:53 and read 42533 times.

They are not saying anything... Just answering some chaotic shouted questions :/
I hope this is not how the search is going on...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-12 02:48:44 and read 41750 times.

What is shamefull press confrence, just no news what so ever. The malaysian gouvernment really is a discrace how they handle this case. They just keep everybody with question or even more questions. I even wonder if they know themselfs what happenend. Gosh all those journalist are having so many questions, just like us. The only thing the malaysian authorities do is creating and raising more doubts. For me it gets more and more frustrating, authorities form some countries can read my messages on my phone, but many ships and planes and even satilietes cant find this plane, so shamefull and sad.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2014-03-12 02:49:05 and read 41843 times.

It's official... The Malaysians have not got a clue what they are doing. They are hiding information, the whole thing is just a chaotic mess.

Time to hand the search over to people who know what they are doing... Then I guarantee they will find the wreckage soon.

I bet they haven't even been searching for a black box signal!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 345tas
Posted 2014-03-12 02:49:06 and read 41715 times.

Quoting na (Reply 179):
Only thing thats clear now is that they do not trust the military radar obviously as they are still searching in the area where primary contact was lost.

Seems that way. They're "still corroborating" the military radar signals. Still saying the turnback is a "possibility" and not a "definitive answer". The military guy grinned when he said the time the plane was last seen on radar and a hundred journalists screamed in unison: "WHERE!!!!????"

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-12 02:50:01 and read 41812 times.

Quoting dtfg (Reply 178):

i just cant imagine a single body floating in the busiest shipping area of the world, with no other sightings of anything.

anymore details in press conference? India has apparently joined in SAR...

also, just out of curiosity... And I'm not trying to get all fox Mulder on this, but... How many UFOs (in the literal sense) are picked up on radar everyday?

point is, in the absence of certainty, i too wouldn't be confirming last known positions.

[Edited 2014-03-12 02:53:33]

and, furthermore, we need to remember 239 lives are at stake here- that's 239 too many to gamble on an anonymous, confusing blip.


[Edited 2014-03-12 02:56:48]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: ZKCIF
Posted 2014-03-12 02:51:04 and read 41339 times.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 172):
Also, these reports surfacing about how a few years ago the co-pilot allowed female passengers into the cockpit on an HKT>KUL flight, I am inclined to believe. Why else would these people come forward and lie? If it is true, then this is serious breach in security for Malaysia Airlines.

Alright, imagine you are blond in the worst sense of this word. You love attention and suddenly a chance comes to get a TWO-BILLION+ audience.
Just think, when I took my last flight on Emirates, I could have asked the pilots to have a photo with them outside the cockpit. Security breach? No. Just imagine something sinister happens to them. then I come forward and say: I flew from DXB to WAW in the jumpseat and I got to sit at the joystick. they were smoking and petting each other, etc. How do they defend?
Whereas you see me live on CNN day in day out as I am a celebrity, no?

These two beauties just asked the hansdome pilots to have a photo with them. End of story.

[Edited 2014-03-12 02:53:27]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-12 02:51:23 and read 41220 times.

Didn't he say Penang?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: na
Posted 2014-03-12 02:52:29 and read 40895 times.

The general just said they are not sure if the signals referred are from MH370. Why are they so slow to find that out?
Honestly, the Malaysians show a very bad picture, they are clueless and they are unable to read the few data that is there.

MAS CEO just saying that he hasnt even checked the maintenance history of the 777 lost, cant answer questions regarded to the specific plane. What an amateur, what has he been doing!

[Edited 2014-03-12 02:56:21]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-12 02:54:18 and read 40412 times.

So basically nothing new, other than India, Japan, and Brunei have come forward to help in the search, and still no 100% confirmation that it was spotted on radar heading west.

Also said they would have these news conferences at 5:30pm (he said in Bahasa Melayu "Lima Setengah") on a daily basis, even if there is no news.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-12 02:55:04 and read 40515 times.

So... the ATC lost radar contact at 1.31am, but military got _something_ at 02:15, 200miles northwest of Penang, at they have no clue what it was.

Kind of explains the search in the Malacca strait. Could be totally unrelated though. Unless aliens.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-12 02:55:13 and read 40545 times.

ohwww and that *ucking smile on that face of the leader of the press conference, such a shame. they have no idea whats going on.


And they have to check the plane records pfffffff they should do from the first day it was missed, even now 5 days later they cant give those details, amateurs.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-12 02:55:22 and read 40387 times.

They are continuesly saying how difficult it is to coordinate this operation with so many countries but is that true.
I mean, are NAVO or UN tests (not to speak about official missions) not even bigger?
Yes they can be planned, but i do see it as 1 strong team at the top which coordinates the resources no matter which country?

Awfull press conference....

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2014-03-12 02:57:19 and read 39881 times.

And while they seem to not know anything and have nothing to say, there are people suffering from the loss of loved ones that are left in the dark void between hope and mourning. SIGH!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-12 02:57:30 and read 40168 times.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 191):

Indeed. That last remark he made to a female journalist who was saying: your statements are changing. And he said: that is not true, that is your opinion :/

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-12 02:59:26 and read 39467 times.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 190):
So... the ATC lost radar contact at 1.31am, but military got _something_ at 02:15, 200miles northwest of Penang, at they have no clue what it was.

This was what I heard

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 345tas
Posted 2014-03-12 03:00:33 and read 39032 times.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 191):

And they have to check the plane records pfffffff they should do from the first day it was missed, even now 5 days later they cant give those details, amateurs.

That was bad. Surely they would have gone through the maintenance records with a tooth and comb.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-12 03:00:59 and read 39195 times.

Forget all scenarios, all conspiracies, all 'what ifs'... I have not seen the following scenario which pops up in mind after seen the press conference: the incapacity in leading an operation like this by the current leading team...

[Edited 2014-03-12 03:03:06]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-12 03:03:12 and read 38703 times.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 193):
And while they seem to not know anything and have nothing to say, there are people suffering from the loss of loved ones that are left in the dark void between hope and mourning. SIGH!

IMO it's sick to still call it SAR. They should have declared the plane crashed by missing by now.

Why is it so hard to say: we don't know what happened. We got unidentified radar contact in west coast, but that could be unrelated. We are searching both sides just to be sure. The area is huge it might take a lot of time to recover the plane. Survivors are unlikely simply due to dehydration. Condolences to the families. We are doing what we can to find the remains and explain what happened.

[Edited 2014-03-12 03:05:48]

[Edited 2014-03-12 03:07:07]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: cougar15
Posted 2014-03-12 03:04:20 and read 38302 times.

Quoting phantomx18 (Reply 113):
From searching pictures on the internet, it appears that airplane life rafts do have the words "Boarding" on them to show survivors which side has the opening to climb into.

Guys, correct me if I am wrong, but the 777 Liferafts are it´s emergency exit slides that double up as liferafts , which are grey ! the pictures show a marine liferaft that is ussually affixed to vessels in a drum, I don not think this is is from a 777, but maybe someone else can verify ? m

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 345tas
Posted 2014-03-12 03:05:13 and read 38281 times.

Actually I don't think it is such a balls-up on behalf of SAR. The military radar saw the plane take a turn just before loss of contact. Then military radar near Penang saw something which could have been MH370, so they searched in both areas.

It seems like the appropriate course of action.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: EVAAIRBR076
Posted 2014-03-12 03:05:16 and read 38291 times.

They cant handle those western journalist haha their questions are to confronting and make them look like fools on that stage.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: gosimeon
Posted 2014-03-12 03:06:09 and read 38500 times.

I hate to say it but the authorities in charge of this SAR mission seem to be inept. They are contradicting eachother and seem at a loss as to what to do. I think China needs to politely take the reins, if that’s possible. They would be far better organised and resourced. The Malaysian authorities just are not organised or prepared for this kind of event unfortunately. The latest press conference was just embarrassing.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2014-03-12 03:07:01 and read 38491 times.

Many airlines in China allow smoking over 15k f within their SOP, so nothing strange in this.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-12 03:07:11 and read 38541 times.

Sovereignty issues aside, China or the US needs to take over to lead the investigation. This is just absurd. Another day passes with nothing but public-facing incompetence. The sun sets in an hour or so and search aircraft will return home and they've wasted another day.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2014-03-12 03:07:25 and read 38545 times.

It's complete arrogance on the part of the Malaysian government and military I say. They call themselves a democracy but they are far from that. The entire country is run on corruption.

I'm starting to wonder whether they actually care...

If this was China leading the operation I am pretty sure they would have found the wreckage by now. Maybe they should hand it over to a country that has far better capabilities? It just seems to be an investigation run through ineptitude, in-fighting and an inability to see the seriousness of what has happened.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-12 03:07:35 and read 38501 times.

So, nothing interesting or new, albeit confirmation that the military did pick up an unidentified aircraft (what was it, 200m NW of Penang) but they can't say what it was or where it came from, or where it was going.

The Gulf of Thailand seems to be lessening in importance in terms of the search, although it would be good to see detail from the Malaysians as to how much of it they believe they've covered, and in the other search areas. They did say they are not sure about the Straits of Malacca too. Now the South China Sea is officially added, so there is some method albeit a pretty chaotic one it seems.

It doesn't seem either that the journos are either able / willing to ask short penetrating questions to elicit information, although the press conference does seem chaotic too.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: larshjort
Posted 2014-03-12 03:08:14 and read 38452 times.

Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 149):

In the unthinkable event that the airplane will never be found, which jurisdiction/authority actually declares the passengers officially deceased?

In Denmark it is the court who can declare a person to be dead. It only happens if somebody seeks to get a person declared dead. There is a period of minimum 10 years before it can happen however if you are able to prove that they were in danger of loosing their lives it is reduced to 1 year. In a special case in Denmark it happened after only 17 days when a ship struck an iceberg in 1959, but the law says a minimum of one year.
I don't believe another authority can declare a danish citizen dead without a body.

Lars

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: specks159
Posted 2014-03-12 03:08:52 and read 37677 times.

Quoting 345tas (Reply 200):

Actually I don't think it is such a balls-up on behalf of SAR. The military radar saw the plane take a turn just before loss of contact. Then military radar near Penang saw something which could have been MH370, so they searched in both areas.

It seems like the appropriate course of action.

Knowing what we do now, I do agree with their reasons for searching in both areas. What is wish is that they had been more transparent will all of this information.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-12 03:11:35 and read 37474 times.

The guy in the green uniform is a disaster. He said that any slight possibility of the plane being in the Malacca Straits prompted them to go and search there. Ridiculous.

It doesn't surprise me how bad this is being handled. Having had lots of experience dealing with State Owned companies in South East Asia, it is unfortunately typical of State employees just to come up with theories and stories that are untrue, because they are too uncomfortable to just say "I don't know."

My honest belief is that they really have absolutely no clue what happened or where it went down, and they feel they will look better by making up theories than by actually admitting that they really don't know.

I feel this will end up with China taking over the search and a huge dispute over the South China Sea (which has already been brewing between China and ASEAN members for a while).

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 186):
These two beauties just asked the hansdome pilots to have a photo with them. End of story.

I thought the same, just two dumb blondes getting their 15mins of fame on some sensationalist Australian TV channel. But, they did seem to provide at least one pic that seemed to show a sunset outside (the rest of the pics seemed to be on the ground).

Cheers
Coal

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: MillwallSean
Posted 2014-03-12 03:11:50 and read 37294 times.

I know that most high positions in malaysia never have anything to do with the running of companies, that well connected malays get fancy jobs and titles that keeps them financially secure and happy doing nothing (and brought into the spotlight when a disaster happens) but this?
Hishammuddin Hussein - Mamma mia...

However they acted swiftly and stopped foreign journalists from interviewing the chinese ambassador. They didnt want that live...

200 miles NW of Penang? One wonders what the people at the radarstation in Kota Bharu where doing. they didnt monitor anything apparently. However a mysterious object was seen 200 miles nw of penang and that is the only trace they have over there?

Doesnt surprise me that despite Malaysia having great equipment the persons monitoring it isnt around. And now when they really need their specialists their lack of training is showing ie their experts dont really know how to analyse the data and it takes along time to do so since to few specialists know what to do.

Cargomainfest?
Maintenence records?

I still think this plane will be found outside Vietnam and not halfway to India.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-12 03:12:32 and read 36933 times.

I would like India and Japan to take part in investigation, there were 5 Indians onboard anyway..so why they waiting for?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: buckfifty
Posted 2014-03-12 03:13:55 and read 36982 times.

I'm imagining that the Malaysians are grappling with a very serious issue with their air defence mechanism, or rather the lack of it. They know to look in the Malacca straits, yet simultaneously maintain a search on the east coast.

That means they are not sure, and they are trying not to say too much at the moment, in order not to reveal too much more about the deficiencies in their air defence system. But it's too late now, I think, the Indonesians will be rubbing their hands with glee at this.

If such a large airliner cannot be tracked, nor did Malaysia scramble any fighters in response to the aircraft turning back with no comms and an unusual flightpath, suggest that either the PSR systems are inadequate, or there was human failure to respond to the situation. I'm inclined to believe in the former.

Either way it looks bad on the Malaysian Air Force. They are trying to paper over the cracks (saving face if you will) at the moment by trying to find the aircraft without saying too much, but because so much time has elapsed, the game is up for them it seems.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 03:18:18 and read 35804 times.

While I agree things are a bit chaotic, I don't see anything to clearly indicate there is information being hidden. Mostly it just seems there are too many people talking to the press.

The Malay authorities made a mistake from the start and it seems to causing much of the "mess". They did not appoint a single person from the very beginning to handle the entirety of all press conferences and any other press contacts. Someone with experience in the job. In a high profile situation like this, you don't want different people who may have different information and who may say things in different ways. It contributes to confusion even if there may be none in reality.

The problem now is that you have several different people speaking to the press at various times. Even at the press conferences they have multiple people.

Information changes and since the press don't know what information is current, what is debunked, what is new, rumors flourish. If there was only one point of contact and everyone else was absolutely forbidden from speaking to the press, much of this apparent confusion would never have happened.


Quoting cougar15 (Reply 199):
Quoting phantomx18 (Reply 113):
From searching pictures on the internet, it appears that airplane life rafts do have the words "Boarding" on them to show survivors which side has the opening to climb into.

Guys, correct me if I am wrong, but the 777 Liferafts are it´s emergency exit slides that double up as liferafts , which are grey ! the pictures show a marine liferaft that is ussually affixed to vessels in a drum, I don not think this is is from a 777, but maybe someone else can verify ? m

Confirmed by Zeke in reply 138 above. 777 life rafts are silver.

[Edited 2014-03-12 03:21:15]

[Edited 2014-03-12 04:08:58]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: dean
Posted 2014-03-12 03:19:07 and read 35835 times.

I don't want to defend the Malaysian authorities, however we can't just blame them without knowing what's really the case. I know it's easy to give ourselves some kind of satisfaction by blaming some parties, but can we please be a bit more patient.

We have no idea how other authorities would coordinate this case as it's incomparable to any other cases. Maybe they know something we don't, maybe they're just figuring out how to connect the dots, or maybe something else.

But flooding threads with blaming posts won't help! I might be naive, but at this point I believe all involved parties - including the Malaysian authorities - are doing their best to locate the wreckage and figure out what happened.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: gr325
Posted 2014-03-12 03:19:28 and read 35759 times.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 211):
I would like India and Japan to take part in investigation, there were 5 Indians onboard anyway..so why they waiting for?

I think India is joing the SAR.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-12 03:22:02 and read 35498 times.

Quoting buckfifty (Reply 212):

1. Lack of modern resources
2. Lack of expertise
3. Language barrier

Three key points why Malaysian officials are having no clue. If they have little affection towards their countrymen and those 239 poor souls then they should bite the bitter bullet, accept they can't handle it and give it to Chinese officials. There is no shame. Last 3-4 days I was thinking they are trying to hide and coverup but my opinion is changing now and I think it's purely down to their incompetency. Seriously nut cases.

They not saying much because they have no clue what to do...how can you not go through maintenance record of 9M-MRO?

Vietnam doesn't have modern technology either why not ask China to help?

[Edited 2014-03-12 03:27:14]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-12 03:23:08 and read 35130 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 213):
Information changes and since the press don't know what information is current, what is debunked, what is new, rumors flourish. If there was only one point of contact and everyone else was absolutely forbidden from speaking to the press, much of this apparent confusion would never have happened.

I quite agree - it is most frustrating to witness how badly they are managing.

Quoting dean (Reply 214):
We have no idea how other authorities would coordinate this case as it's incomparable to any other cases. Maybe they know something we don't, maybe they're just figuring out how to connect the dots, or maybe something else.

But we do, in the case of AF447 there were daily and very transparent press conferences and the release of much detailed information - yes, there was more information and events unfolded more rapidly. In the case of Asiana last year at SFO the NTSB gave a perfect model of how to manage information flow in a precise, accurate and non-conflicting way.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: qantas077
Posted 2014-03-12 03:25:14 and read 34812 times.

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 11):
My faith in the Malaysian government to properly conduct a search and rescue mission is severely shaken, and it really is a shame. I feel like they are going through the motions, hoping to stumble upon wreckage.

that's what a one party system for the last 50 years gets you..the chap fronting the media is actually the PM's cousin.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-12 03:25:58 and read 34712 times.

Quoting dean (Reply 214):

exactly. People need to get a grip.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: s5daw
Posted 2014-03-12 03:27:17 and read 34373 times.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 216):
Last 3-4 days I was thinking they are trying to hide and coverup but my opinions changing now and I think it's purely down to their incompetency. Seriously nut cases.

In other words, never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: anshuk
Posted 2014-03-12 03:28:06 and read 34444 times.

Quoting gr325 (Reply 215):
I think India is joing the SAR.

I'm surprised they haven't already. They have significant resources in the Andaman Sea and a Naval Base at Port Blair. Btw, do you have a source for this?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-12 03:30:18 and read 34101 times.

Quoting anshuk (Reply 221):

the guardian has confirmed India have joined SAR.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...n-confusion-over-planes-final-path

[Edited 2014-03-12 03:34:24]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-12 03:31:53 and read 33716 times.

Quoting anshuk (Reply 221):
Quoting gr325 (Reply 215):

Yes, keen to know source..have you got any by any chance?

Thanks.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2014-03-12 03:35:22 and read 33077 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 91):
Re tomnod, I don't see anything at all at map 4894.

Pretty certain I saw a Pareidolia.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: qantas077
Posted 2014-03-12 03:35:32 and read 33303 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 145):
The report itself looks legitimate, the question is what he actually saw. He estimated the object to be 50-70km... that's quite a distance.

oddly enough, this is the rough vicinity that CX crew reported seeing wreckage..but Malaysian officials didn't offer to search because the plane was to fly over HCM.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: davs5032
Posted 2014-03-12 03:37:14 and read 32740 times.

Quoting anshuk (Reply 221):
I'm surprised they haven't already. They have significant resources in the Andaman Sea and a Naval Base at Port Blair. Btw, do you have a source for this?

They stated during the conference that India, Japan, and Brunei are joining the investigation.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: windshear
Posted 2014-03-12 03:37:38 and read 33784 times.

It is not possible for the 777 to go off course so much that it would not have been found on the flightroute across the ocean... The pilots would have contacted the ground and the transponder would have been working.

What Malaysian officials say, the plane simply disappeared from FL350 to nothing following its planned flightpath over the ocean.

Major structural failure caused by an unknown fault in the fuselage or fuel tanks or a bomb.

If not then the information we have is not true or sufficient. It might be that it went off course and they did not disclose it to the public because of some strange ego reason.

These are my thought at the moment, from a logical and pseudo scientific perspective

Boaz.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: sejtam
Posted 2014-03-12 03:37:39 and read 33739 times.

I am quite appalled how so many armchair critics here (and elsewhere) have nothing better to do that criticise the authorities for not having leadership, Malaysia as a country etc. If there is no info to go on, how to do it better? Put up real workable proposals and/or plans and provide real help, or shut up. If you want to help, fly over here and add your manpower.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: PanAmPaul
Posted 2014-03-12 03:38:02 and read 33863 times.

Just to add to the tension, Malaysia is warning of a long wait for answers:

Malaysian Transport Minister: Expect ‘Long, Drawn Out’ Wait for Answers

Quote:
As Day 5 in the search for the missing Malaysian Airlines jet drew to a close in the region, no new leads emerged and officials were warning that no quick answers were expected.

“It’s going to be long, drawn out,” ....

.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: anshuk
Posted 2014-03-12 03:38:52 and read 33608 times.

Found another source: http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...t/article5776093.ece?homepage=true

India has indeed joined the search.

Quote:
"India has a tri-services military command at Andaman and Nicobar islands and Navy and air force carry out regular patrols in the area.
...
Malaysia has asked for India’s assistance in searching for the missing Boeing 777 jetliner to widen the search to an area near the Andaman Sea, Ministry of External Affairs spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said Wednesday.

Mr. Akbaruddin said India had appointed a contact person to liaise with Malaysian authorities, but did not give details about what kind of help India would offer.

Indian navy ships frequently patrol the seas around the Strait of Malacca and regularly conduct exercises with countries in the region."

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SQ452
Posted 2014-03-12 03:39:16 and read 33511 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 209):
I thought the same, just two dumb blondes getting their 15mins of fame on some sensationalist Australian TV channel. But, they did seem to provide at least one pic that seemed to show a sunset outside (the rest of the pics seemed to be on the ground).

Yeah you are probably right. If the two blonde girls are making stuff up then shame on them for taking advantage and profiting off of this tragedy.

I just watched the presser, what a disaster. These guys seem utterly clueless as to 1) crisis management 2) how to handle the press during a crisis, the DCA DG is particularly awful and needs media training, stat 3) SAR. The amount of misinformation and contradiction is just mind boggling.

China or the US should take over and lead the investigation.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 03:41:15 and read 33190 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 217):
Quoting dean (Reply 214):
We have no idea how other authorities would coordinate this case as it's incomparable to any other cases. Maybe they know something we don't, maybe they're just figuring out how to connect the dots, or maybe something else.

But we do, in the case of AF447 there were daily and very transparent press conferences and the release of much detailed information - yes, there was more information and events unfolded more rapidly. In the case of Asiana last year at SFO the NTSB gave a perfect model of how to manage information flow in a precise, accurate and non-conflicting way.

Different culture, and much more experience with the international press. And a completely different attitude towards being prepared and having procedures in place.

[Edited 2014-03-12 04:06:51]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: CYCLOPZ
Posted 2014-03-12 03:42:09 and read 33514 times.

From Reddit, via Twitter

https://twitter.com/brigadierslog/status/443681521002496000

Alleged witness sighting of MH370 crashing into the sea from an oil rig.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-12 03:49:12 and read 32023 times.

Quoting CYCLOPZ (Reply 233):

5 days later?  

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: 345tas
Posted 2014-03-12 03:49:37 and read 31945 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 209):
The guy in the green uniform is a disaster. He said that any slight possibility of the plane being in the Malacca Straits prompted them to go and search there. Ridiculous.

Surely this is a responsible course of action. The alternative being "yeah we saw this stuff on radar but it's probs not MH370 so we won't bother searching there". Victims' families would rightly be furious.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-12 03:51:18 and read 31666 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 213):
A lot of it has to do with "face". You lose face if you say you don't know.

That's my point (I know everything about face, I've been living in East Asia for eight years). What I am trying to illustrate is that they really have no clue what's happening, but they want to put on a charade that makes it seems as if they're in charge.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: PhilV
Posted 2014-03-12 03:53:14 and read 31398 times.

Quoting CYCLOPZ (Reply 233):
From Reddit, via Twitter

https://twitter.com/brigadierslog/status/443681521002496000

Alleged witness sighting of MH370 crashing into the sea from an oil rig.

Posted it a while ago.

But it is still interesting.

If nobody knows if MH370 really turned and crossed the peninsula, I take the last known heading from the last known position as the last known fact.
And the heading was towards (roughly) Vung Tau.
Furthermore, including this mail, we have some reports from that area now.

From avherald.com:
'Hong Kong's Air Traffic Control Center reported on Mar 10th 2014 around 17:30L (09:30Z) that an airliner enroute on airway L642 reported via HF radio that they saw a large field of debris at position N9.72 E107.42 about 80nm southeast of Ho Chi Minh City, about 50nm off the south-eastern coast of Vietnam in the South China Sea and about 281nm northeast of the last known radar position. Ships have been dispatched to the reported debris field.

On Mar 10th 2014 Vietnam's Search and Rescue Control Center confirmed receiving the report by Hong Kong's Air Traffic Control Center stating that a Hong Kong based airliner reported a large field of debris while enroute on airway L642. A Thai cargo ship in the area was asked for assistance and has set course to the area but did not find anything unusual so far. A second vessel asked for assistance did find some debris. Following this finding Vietnam's Maritime Search and Rescue Services (MRCC) dispatched a ship to the debris field.

On Mar 10th 2014 Hong Kong's Civil Aviation Department confirmed a Cathay Pacific flight from Hong Kong to Kuala Lumpur spotted large amount of debris while enroute off the coast of South East Vietnam.

Vietnam's Search and Rescue Center later announced that the border guard vessel arriving at the position of the debris field did not find any objects. There were high winds and large waves, the debris possibly drifted away.'

Why on earth is nobody considering a real search in that area?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: art
Posted 2014-03-12 03:53:22 and read 31310 times.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 193):
And while they seem to not know anything and have nothing to say, there are people suffering from the loss of loved ones that are left in the dark void between hope and mourning. SIGH!

Losing loved ones is extremely distressing but everyone is in the dark. There is nothing that anyone can do to confirm what happened to the people on the flight until more evidence comes to light.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: David L
Posted 2014-03-12 03:56:05 and read 30779 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 14):
I think it's pretty clear that the MAF has no info on where the plane went after IGARI. They know only that it changed heading at IGARI and then disappeared.

The other search area was based on that heading, and not on any radar track.
Quoting 345tas (Reply 200):
Actually I don't think it is such a balls-up on behalf of SAR. The military radar saw the plane take a turn just before loss of contact. Then military radar near Penang saw something which could have been MH370, so they searched in both areas.

It seems like the appropriate course of action.

Correct and that's all I've heard them say. The "extra" details came via the press. I'm annoyed at myself for falling for it.

Quoting flyorski (Reply 50):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 46):It might just mean, "we are still analyzing and don't want to confuse things further".
That is what I think. They have an image on radar from that night, however they do not really know if it has anything to do with MH370 as the transponder was turned off. So they see something, but as they cannot confirm its identity they do not want to over-emphasize the information.

Agreed. Any other interpretation is pure conjecture at this point.

Quoting 345tas (Reply 170):
He only refuted a quote that was attributed to him by a Malaysian newspaper. You can read his statement in the previous threads.

Correct.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 60):
This is becoming a mess. An official says A, media says "A said B".
What's worse is that, media goes to C, and ask about A, and C would say, "Yea yea... A said B"...
You can see how far and fast that can go off track.

Oh yes. It happens every time and it's not only misunderstanding but also misreading what's actually been said and failure to recognise the source.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 182):
I even wonder if they know themselfs what happenend.

They don't know what happened. That's what they're trying to find out.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 183):
It's official... The Malaysians have not got a clue what they are doing. They are hiding information, the whole thing is just a chaotic mess.

Time to hand the search over to people who know what they are doing... Then I guarantee they will find the wreckage soon.

I bet they haven't even been searching for a black box signal!

If you can convince me you know more about exactly what they're doing than the rest of us do then I'll listen.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 185):
i just cant imagine a single body floating in the busiest shipping area of the world, with no other sightings of anything.

I wonder if it's either associated with the marine life-raft found recently or if they've actually confused the life-raft for a body in a life-jacket.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2014-03-12 03:56:07 and read 31039 times.

That eye witness report from the oil rig looks like it could be plausible. Why aren't we hearing more about it??

It seems to be in a similar location to the CX sighting, and the timing appears to match with when the plane went missing.

It seems that authorities aren't able to be contacted (Vietnam have said they have had communication problems with Malaysia) or maybe they are just not interested in eye witness reports?

The fact that so little resource was used by Vietnam to check this out means very little. Maybe it's time they up the search and rescue efforts in this area. With two reports i'd say there is reason to.

[Edited 2014-03-12 04:02:17]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Pihero
Posted 2014-03-12 04:03:04 and read 29924 times.

Sad to see the quality of this - these - thread (s) go down this low.
As a matter of fact, as low as the *reporting* of the general media and lots lower than the criticisms addressed to the Malaysian authorities.
The main problem is that too many countries are involved, and from what I read, there is little or no cooperation at all between these countries within their own national SRRs.
Add to the mess the arrival of US and Australian search planes...
The result is nobody in the public knows what areas are in fact being searched, and by whom.
And for those disparaging the Malaysian Air defence command, please tell us how many of the hijacked airplanes on the 11th of September 2001 were intercepted by the most modern, efficient and proactive air force in the world.

May I remind all that the only thing we know with some measure of certainty is that, forty minutes after takeoff, the flight should have been transferred to Ho Chi Minh ATC( we doin't even kn,ow whether that had been accomplished ), tyhat they never contacted the Viet-Namese and disappeared from secondary radar coverage.
THAT IS IT. THAT'S ALL WE KNOW.
Anther saddening aspect of the threade is that people have a very limited knowledge of something they use evry hour of the day : cell phones... That smacks to me as a *magical attitude* far from technical knowledge, like my ninity-five year old neighbour who only needs to press a button on a remote controller to get a window on the outsidfe world with her TV set...

Now for some aspects :
-The electrical system of a modern airliner is so redundant as to make a so-called a total electrical failure a quasi impossibility. The 777 is in this case .

- There was a report from a company aircraft who, when asked by Ho Choi Minh ATC to relay, managed a contact and heard *mumbling*... This has not been discussed, although it could be important : If MH370 couldn't talk to HCM, but liaise with an aircraft 250 nm away, one of the reasons is that they were too low for a VHF link to a ground station, but still in line of sight with an aircraft at cruise level.
The *mumbling* could also come from an O2 mask set.

- The obvious reason why the airplane hasn't been found - yet - is a track change. How drastic and how far is the biggest question we could ask.

- IMHO, hijacking is not on top of the scenarii we could envisage : takes two seconds to change a transponder code...
But we can speculate, of course.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-12 04:05:47 and read 29624 times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 242):

I heard Vietnam suspending SAR just now...

Officials should trust eyewitness from oil rig, there is no harm looking around that area.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2014-03-12 04:06:17 and read 29242 times.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 243):
Sad to see the quality of this - these - thread (s) go down this low.

Kindly read the admonsihments at the beginning of the thread.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: DTW2HYD
Posted 2014-03-12 04:07:19 and read 29226 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 209):
I thought the same, just two dumb blondes getting their 15mins of fame on some sensationalist Australian TV channel. But, they did seem to provide at least one pic that seemed to show a sunset outside (the rest of the pics seemed to be on the ground).

Well said. News outlets are running out of theories because this event doesn't fit into any previous ones pundits can relate to, so they have to dig up dirt on any one of the 239 souls.

Interesting part, she is 100% confident her flight was never in danger but thinks somehow he could have endangered flight safety of MH370.

Worst part of entire coverage all news channels consistently think transponders can never fail.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-12 04:11:13 and read 28596 times.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 243):
There was a report from a company aircraft who, when asked by Ho Choi Minh ATC to relay, managed a contact and heard *mumbling*... This has not been discussed

Wasn't that report quickly refuted by Vietnamese (?) authorities?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 04:12:35 and read 28325 times.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 246):
Worst part of entire coverage all news channels consistently think transponders can never fail.

One of the basic rules of aviation: If a piece of equipment is on the plane, it can and will break.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: aw70
Posted 2014-03-12 04:18:38 and read 27534 times.

As someone with a bit of a military background let me say one thing with regard to the attitude of the Malaysian authorities: namely, that the whole incident appears to have caught them completely off guard, and that regardless of what has happened to MH370, it has exposed enormous deficiencies in their entire air defence and surveillance system. And they appear to be mostly concerned with retaining some semblance of face. Not that this is working, but it does explain the strange behaviour of some officials.

If you can potentially fly something the size of a T7 across the entire bloody country, and four days later they are still not sure whether that actually happened - in plain language that means your entire military airspace surveillance is worth precisely nothing. Total garbage. If your systems and personnel were up to at least reasonable scratch, you could conclusively say either way if that bird came their way pretty much the moment it happened, and not just four days later. The show they are delivering here is a total disgrace.

If you are the general in charge of such a clown troupe, you of course try to buy time, until you find some intern who can actually read radar plots. But to the rest of the world you, and your entire command, still look like kids they let play with the big toys.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: PhilV
Posted 2014-03-12 04:21:00 and read 27267 times.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 243):
May I remind all that the only thing we know with some measure of certainty is that, forty minutes after takeoff, the flight should have been transferred to Ho Chi Minh ATC( we doin't even kn,ow whether that had been accomplished ), tyhat they never contacted the Viet-Namese and disappeared from secondary radar coverage.
THAT IS IT. THAT'S ALL WE KNOW.
Anther saddening aspect of the threade is that people have a very limited knowledge of something they use evry hour of the day : cell phones... That smacks to me as a *magical attitude* far from technical knowledge, like my ninity-five year old neighbour who only needs to press a button on a remote controller to get a window on the outsidfe world with her TV set...

From the straitstimes.com:

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-...ane-alright-good-night-were-last-h

Maybe before changing the frequency to Ho Chi Minh ATC?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: dirktraveller
Posted 2014-03-12 04:22:44 and read 26849 times.

The lack of information or explanation given for the past five days did refer to two possibilities, first is that something is being hidden and second is that they do have no clue of what's happening. The latest press conference does seemed to confirm that the latter is what's going on with the authorities in Malaysia.

With all respect to Malaysia and its people they desperately need better coordination in disclosing information to the public. The amount of information released and then retracted is just appaling, creating confusion and even worse is rooms for speculations and wild rumours etc.

Now we even had a new timing of the plane last seen in the radar at 0215hrs (which then someone else in the same press conference claiming he "not sure" if it's MH370). To those who might be expert in this field, I wondered how long does it take normally to confirm such sightings on a radar??

Few years ago I did follow the development of search operations when Adam Air flight was missing in Indonesia. The authorities did also lacked experience on conducting the operation, rumours were also spread around. But if I recalled correctly the amount of information they released throughout the search, despite little, were somehow being handled better and more consistently (e.g. not being retracted or altered time to time) than what we seen today with MH370. Any thoughts??

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: p201055r
Posted 2014-03-12 04:23:31 and read 26908 times.

There has been much criticism of the Malaysian authorities and their handling of both the SAR Op and the press/public information.
Move away from the comfortable armchair where, safe in the knowledge that a similar occurrence in other parts of the World would be “properly” handled by the AAIB, BEA, NTSB etc and consider the background of the individuals we’re seeing on our screens.
Figures of authority in a power-centric State (I mean no disrespect to Malaysia or its citizens), unused to being questioned time and again by international media. They say it, they say it once, it’s the truth - that’s their culture.
Their exposure to media will most likely have been non-confrontational in the past, their interviews with the press well managed by their media handlers and on a you-don’t-embarrass-me and I-won’t-hurt-you understanding. This is probably true for the DGA, maybe the Minister and even the CEO of MH.
Suddenly, however, they find themselves in the stressful if not confrontational arena of international media, being beamed into homes all around the World.
Not an easy place to be with skilled reporters trying to pick holes in your story, to get the “angle”, to solve the mystery. Not an easy place to be either if your service - Army, Navy or Air Force - hasn’t been as efficient as it should have been or if the hideously expensive equipment which was bought didn’t live up to its expectations.
Add in fears over disclosing too much about defence structures, responses, states of readiness and it is surprising these people dare to open their mouths.

I felt the Chief of Defence Staff today was attempting to be realistic and human in explaining why the Straits search was ordered and was continuing; the AF Chief attempting to be forthcoming about the last suspected primary radar contact.
OK the MH CEO should have had the AD compliance facts.

China is critical, but perhaps an amount of encouragement and mentoring rather than hectoring might ease the info flow, de-stress the media briefings. It won’t make the SAR Op any easier at the coal face, nor the understandable anguish of relatives, but it might format information into understandable parts, less liable to multiple (and sometimes irreverent, unfortunately) interpretations.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-12 04:26:30 and read 27719 times.

Due to length this thread will be locked. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 16:


MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Thanks and regards,

SA7700


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