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Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-12 22:53:22 and read 54836 times.

Due to length part 17 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 18.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome.


PLEASE KEEP IN MIND:


**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ****

**** Please do not repeat questions and scenarios that were covered and discussed in previous threads and which do not contribute in a constructive manner towards the real topic any longer. ****

**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

**** Once again please be respectful towards other users and keep the forum rules and regulations in mind when posting in the forums. Should there be any rule violations, please bring this to the attention of the moderators by making use of the “suggest deletion function”. ****


Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

Pat

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-12 22:55:28 and read 55020 times.

This captures three types of reports:

The first are snapshots, where the sensor data listed above is captured and collected into a small report. This is carried out during take-off, during climb and once the aircraft is in cruise.

The second type is triggered by unusual engine conditions. Examples might be if an engine exceeded its TGT (Turbine Gas Temperature) limits during a take-off. These reports contain a short time-history of key parameters to enable rapid and effective trouble-shooting of the problem.

The final type is a summary, which is produced at the end of the flight. This captures information such as maximum conditions experienced during the flight, and power reductions selected during take-off and climb.

http://www.rolls-royce.com/about/tec...ystems_tech/monitoring_systems.jsp

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-12 22:57:57 and read 54910 times.

There's no indication that the RR EHM system would have produced anything but the three snapshots and the summary.

Presumably, they received a summary? And thus know when the flight ended?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: AR385
Posted 2014-03-12 22:58:18 and read 54750 times.

"Quoting dcsben (Reply 209):
If it is indeed true that the a/c kept on flying for 4-5 more hours, then it is again quite possible that the transponder was turned off and the plane flown somewhere intentionally."

I read that. But it makes no sense. Which terrorist group in that part of the world, giving the ass kicking they´ve been receiving for the past decade and a half, has the infrastructure to carry out such an operation? I can buy they managed to hijack the plane and fly it somewhere, land it (it´s happened before) but then prepare a 777 for a future operation? With no government in that part of the world knowing about it? It sounds like a bad Bond movie plot.

The only place it could have gone if flying West is to countries that are not going to be able to hide something like this for such a long time, or not knowing about it.

"Quoting 777Jet (Reply 223):
Also, how come it has taken five days to find out that the engine monitoring data suggests that the plane flew for 5 more hours?"

I would guess that it´s data that has taken a while to analyze and then re analyze.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-12 22:58:20 and read 54776 times.

As reported in the previous thread, Wall Street Journal claims U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

Link to the story
http://tinyurl.com/m7jnd8x

Apparently, the plane sent ACARS information regarding engine performance but without location information through a satellite connection.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-12 22:59:07 and read 54746 times.

So we're down to two broad possibilities right:

1) Hijacking (including by the crew)
2) Hypoxia plus other weirdness explaining the transponder and turn

Any other possibilities?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-12 23:01:51 and read 54600 times.

Also, the WSJ report makes FL 295 sound exceedingly intentional. Again, not something that is necessarily incompatible with hypoxia and other non-nefarious weirdness, but it's tough to square.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-12 23:01:58 and read 54549 times.

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 5):
Any other possibilities?

Loss of control is still a possibility.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-12 23:04:58 and read 54175 times.

I have a feeling....

Last radar signal from MH370 (en route from Kuala Lumpur to Bejing) was above Vietnam Sea/South Chinese Sea. New Zealand oil ridge worker (on oil ridge south of Vietnam) sees burning plane falling from sky into South Chinese Sea. Chinese satellite might found debris in South Chinese Sea.

Fishermen found dead body with life jacket in Malakka Street. Life raft was found in Malakka Street. Malaysian Air Force picked up radar signal from an unidentified flying object (maybe a disguised or not responding plane) above Malakka Street.

My feeling: maybe a stealth aircraft collided in mid-air with the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777. The airliner crashed in South Chinese Sea and the stealth aircraft tried to get back to Diego Garcia or other base but did not make it and crashed into Malakka Street.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-12 23:06:42 and read 53932 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 1):
The final type is a summary, which is produced at the end of the flight. This captures information such as maximum conditions experienced during the flight, and power reductions selected during take-off and climb.

Goodness. This seems to be the only type that fits a scenario which would communicate a duration of flight.

What conditions have to be met for "end of flight" to be triggered and this summary set? If we're talking about a controlled proper engine shutdown, then things are about to get super, super interesting...

EDIT: upon second thought, the report could also have been the "unusual engine condition" report.

If they received an "unusual engine condition" report but no "summary" report, that could indicate that the flight did not end with a controlled landing (the unusual engine condition could have been flame out due to fuel starvation, or an excessive throttle setting for excessive duration?? just guessing here).

On the other hand, if they received a summary report, then the plane could be wheels down somewhere.

The content of the data they have will be very telling.

[Edited 2014-03-12 23:13:58]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-12 23:08:37 and read 53570 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 8):
Loss of control is still a possibility.

Can you say more? 4 hours loss aloft without control and comms - that's difficult to envision (although I realize we are in exceedingly difficult to envision territory), particularly since (1) WSJ did not report anything unusual in engine ACARS (although sources could be holding back) and (2) we have an indication of a significant post-transponder failure heading change but no indication after supposedly flying back over Malaysia that the a/c maneuvered in direction of land. So it would be four hours of uncontrollable but relatively stable, straight flight.

What am I missing?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: SamH123
Posted 2014-03-12 23:09:49 and read 53599 times.

The story of the dead body found in a life jacket is a day old now, has there been any news in terms of the authenticity of this discovery?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 23:10:04 and read 53433 times.

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 10):
Holy fuc...

What does the range circle look like four hours after it was lost from Malaysian radar?

It's on this Twitter, a few posts down:

https://twitter.com/flyingwithfish

His range circle does seem conservative. I don't have image-creation capabilities at the moment but my Google Earth fooling around yields a circle stretching from central Pakistan to central Australia.

And, of course, extending VERY far into the Indian Ocean.

[Edited 2014-03-12 23:11:41]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CO777DAL
Posted 2014-03-12 23:10:27 and read 53419 times.

Some of you guys are great at making maps. Can someone make a map with a radius from the last know point showing how far this plane could have flown if it did fly 5 hours more. That would help a lot of us visualize up to where this plane could have gone.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-12 23:11:48 and read 53475 times.

From the earlier thread:

"NTSB investigators are not amateurs and neither is the Wall Street Journal. "

I seriously doubt the NTSB is leading this investigation from the US side. They are probably involved as they would have the technical knowledge to know what to do with stuff like ACARS data. But the WSJ left very little doubt that this is a counter-terrorism investigation that's going on in the US. And why wouldn't it be at this point? The Malaysians are leading the SAR (for now), there's no actual crash to investigate (I mean, not one that's been found)... all there really is to do from the US side is make sure no one's going to get hit over the head with an airplane.

I doubt it was the NTSB that gave this info to the WSJ. The NTSB doesn't typically leak stuff to the press. Other US government agencies are known to do that, however, both intentionally and not. (But I'm guessing this was the former.)

[Edited 2014-03-12 23:13:17]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-12 23:13:12 and read 53234 times.

The only thing I can think of to explain the WSJ report is that ACARS sent an engine summary report, indicting that the plane had landed.

I'm not really familiar with how all of that works though, so I'm just guessing.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: KIAS
Posted 2014-03-12 23:14:10 and read 53006 times.



https://twitter.com/petchmo/status/443972954401935361

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: AR385
Posted 2014-03-12 23:15:48 and read 52908 times.

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 13):
Some of you guys are great at making maps. Can someone make a map with a radius from the last know point showing how far this plane could have flown if it did fly 5 hours more. That would help a lot of us visualize up to where this plane could have gone.

If heading West, it could be India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka or the Maldives. If on its current heading at point of contact loss, somewhere in China.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-12 23:16:24 and read 52632 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 15):
The only thing I can think of to explain the WSJ report is that ACARS sent an engine summary report, indicting that the plane had landed.

And maybe also a successful or nearly succeful ditching. Even if the engines are separated that might cause the ACARS to send a report.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:16:45 and read 52640 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 9):
Fishermen found dead body with life jacket in Malakka Street.

Are you saying that a body was found on a street on land? That would mean something happened over land and not water, which would change the nature of the search.

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 5):
1) Hijacking (including by the crew)

I know we do not know for sure and that we are all just guessing at this point in time, but I highly doubt the captain would hijack the plane or allow it to be hijacked. He was experienced and had been with the airline since the 1980s.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 11):
What conditions have to be met for "end of flight" to be triggered and this summary set? If we're talking about a controlled proper engine shutdown, then things are about to get super, super interesting...

Very true. Could it also have been that it sent the summary when the engines turned off because of a crash, so more of a mechanical or forced shutdown rather than a proper shutdown?

Also, have the authorities been able to verify the report of the New Zealand oil ridge worker or are people blowing that off at this point? Do we know when there will be verification or further investigation into what the Chinese satellite saw?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-12 23:19:21 and read 52236 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 20):
Are you saying that a body was found on a street on land? That would mean something happened over land and not water, which would change the nature of the search.

Malakka Street is a sea street, west of the Malaysia penninsula (not on land)

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: washingtonflyer
Posted 2014-03-12 23:20:17 and read 51963 times.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 16):
https://twitter.com/petchmo/status/443972954401935361

That map is way too conservative. It shows the range as not even making it to its intended destination - PEK.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: sipadan
Posted 2014-03-12 23:20:32 and read 52023 times.

If WSJ reporting is accurate, and data interpretation is conclusive and bears out that the plane was aloft for another 4 hours, the only possibility is that the plane was commandeered by either crew or "terrorists". What is MOST PROBABLE, and what I've heard is now driving the main vein of the investigation, is the Captain acting alone. There has been some speculation, in "reputable" circles, that the pilot of MH370 was afflicted by a type of delusional personalty disorder. Particularly a propensity towards grandiosity and ego-inflation, which may have been catalysts to an event such as is now unfolding. Again, this is very preliminary, perfunctory speculation but IS THE line of logic currently driving the investigation. As for the status of a/c and passengers, officials are being very cautious about releasing any pertinent information as the situation is "very fluid" and "dynamic" and of a "sensitive" nature. I will post more when I have more info.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:21:56 and read 51990 times.

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 17):
I assume that it had enough to get to Beijing and then fuel for one additional hour....

I believe two additional hours was mentioned in a previous thread.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: gatechae
Posted 2014-03-12 23:22:00 and read 52010 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 20):
Are you saying that a body was found on a street on land? That would mean something happened over land and not water, which would change the nature of the search.

I'm pretty sure hes confusing the word "street" for "strait", and he means the latter.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: FlyingAY
Posted 2014-03-12 23:22:46 and read 53330 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 20):

Malakka Street

Malacca Strait in English. Sorry to nitpick, but in this case it might make a difference.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 23:23:07 and read 53395 times.

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 21):
That map is way too conservative. It shows the range as not even making it to its intended destination - PEK.

That's not a fuel range map, it's a time-of-flight map based on the "4-5 hours" of engine ACARS data.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-12 23:23:08 and read 55848 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 18):
And maybe also a successful or nearly succeful ditching. Even if the engines are separated that might cause the ACARS to send a report.

Do we know how the system determines "landed"? I assumed weight on wheels.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-12 23:24:42 and read 55358 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 14):
I seriously doubt the NTSB is leading this investigation from the US side.

They may not be formally, but I wouldn't doubt they are leading their own independent investigation. If they find something worthy of notifying the Malaysian authorities I'm sure they would.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 14):
But the WSJ left very little doubt that this is a counter-terrorism investigation that's going on in the US. And why wouldn't it be at this point? The Malaysians are leading the SAR (for now), there's no actual crash to investigate (I mean, not one that's been found)... all there really is to do from the US side is make sure no one's going to get hit over the head with an airplane.

I'm sure it is busy in Langley right now. I have to imagine this is making the counterterrorism task forces sweating bullets.

How is radar coverage in Myanmar? I only say this because looking at the green circle that is the only spot that sticks out to me as not having a large level of commercial service. I have to imagine India or Thailand would have spotted it. Then again, you really can't rule anything out with this...
Pat

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:24:52 and read 55515 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 20):
Malakka Street is a sea street, west of the Malaysia penninsula (not on land)

OK, thank you. Sorry for my error. Has it been confirmed that the person was on MH370? Have authorities moved into that area to search for debris?

Quoting sipadan (Reply 22):
What is MOST PROBABLE, and what I've heard is now driving the main vein of the investigation, is the Captain acting alone.

As a journalist, I have to ask: How do you know that/where are your sources from and how do your sources know that?


In terms of the WSJ report, how do we know what they reported is accurate and where did they get their information from?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 23:25:17 and read 55353 times.

Quoting vnangia (Reply 29):
"But it transmitted engine data post flight … so that worked"

It's not really possible that kind of information is showing up on some aviation consultant's Twitter, is it? Surely something that astounding would be leaked not to him but to a reputable newspaper.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:28:51 and read 54635 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 28):
Do we know how the system determines "landed"? I assumed weight on wheels.

If your assumption is correct, then a crash would have been able to send the report. That is still creepy.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 25):
If this is true this is just insane.

I would have to say that I find it unbelievable that the plane made a normal landing. I would have to think people would have seen a 777 at low altitudes.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-12 23:31:04 and read 54146 times.

From the previous thread:

Quote:
User currently onlineSamH123 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2014, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 237, posted Wed Mar 12 2014 14:47:31 your local time (28 minutes 4 secs ago) and read 3690 times:

I did not see it mentioned in this thread that at the press conference yesterday it was said that:

"We are looking into four areas: one; hijacking, two; sabotage, three; psychological problems of the passengers and crew and four; personal problems among the passengers and crew."

The fact a mechanical problem is not even one of the 4 areas shocked me - they seem to be ruling out the plane crashing anywhere near where it went off radar

The guy was speaking for the security agencies involved, i.e. the criminological aspect of the investigation. He did explicitly not speak for the aviation authorities, who would be responsible for checking technical or operational causes.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: imagoagnitio
Posted 2014-03-12 23:31:24 and read 54233 times.

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 13):

crap at maps, but according to MH own website the 772 cruises @ 0.84 Mach/897kmh, so lets base a few cities on 5 hours @ 850kmh = 4250km

First up

Colombo is 2458
Kabul is 4833 so that's out
Pyongyang 4657 so that's out
Mogadishu, Somalia is 6265 so that's out
Yemen is 6030 so that's out
Tehran, Iran is 6291 so that's out
Sochi is 7537 so that's out
Kiev, Ukraine is 8411 so that's out

unless it flew for longer than 5 hours, it's potential max Range is around 12,779 km...in which case all of the above are within range

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:31:41 and read 54155 times.

It seems like Flying With Fish is speculating and guessing based on information available, sort of like we are. I would like to find out, though, where he is getting some of his information from.

How do we even know for sure that an engine report was transmitted?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-12 23:32:04 and read 54141 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 31):
If your assumption is correct, then a crash would have been able to send the report. That is still creepy.

I would think that is unlikely.

My understanding is that ACARS prioritizes messages and sends them in a certain order. It doesn't immediately send data.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-12 23:32:04 and read 54273 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 31):
I would have to say that I find it unbelievable that the plane made a normal landing. I would have to think people would have seen a 777 at low altitudes.

If we are going full conspiracy theory, then it could have been landed at a remote military facility where it is extremely unlikely to have been observed.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:34:12 and read 53300 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 36):
If we are going full conspiracy theory, then it could have been landed at a remote military facility where it is extremely unlikely to have been observed.

True, but why would a government be in on this and how would other governments not find out?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-12 23:33:27 and read 53476 times.

Quoting vnangia (Reply 33):

Is he reading my posts?  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2014-03-12 23:34:39 and read 53675 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 28):
I'm sure it is busy in Langley right now. I have to imagine this is making the counterterrorism task forces sweating bullets.

officials were told investigators are actively pursuing the notion that the plane was diverted "with the intention of using it later for another purpose."

Source: Posted 2014-03-12 23:35:05 and read 53330 times.

Wouldn't an ACARS report contain a touchdown rate, speed, etc...?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: fiscal
Posted 2014-03-12 23:35:16 and read 53481 times.

Here we are at day 5. When did Boeing (I assume) become aware of this information? I would have thought that as soon as they become aware of the missing aircraft, they would have checked to see if any data was being transmitted.

If they did, and no data received on the weekend, maybe the flight was hijacked, landed, and took off again, but this time the pilot made sure that that mode of communication was operational once more. Just a thought.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:35:27 and read 53212 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 35):
My understanding is that ACARS prioritizes messages and sends them in a certain order. It doesn't immediately send data.

OK, thank you. Does that mean it would not send the data if it crashed?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:37:22 and read 52940 times.

Quoting fiscal (Reply 42):
Here we are at day 5. When did Boeing (I assume) become aware of this information? I would have thought that as soon as they become aware of the missing aircraft, they would have checked to see if any data was being transmitted.

If Boeing got the information, wouldn't the airline then get it as well? Why would Boeing and not the airline get it?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-12 23:37:37 and read 52990 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 29):
In terms of the WSJ report, how do we know what they reported is accurate and where did they get their information from?

We don't know that it's accurate. But it is highly detailed, gives specifics on actual briefings going on, and quotes anonymous sources within the US government. And it's the WSJ, not some podunk local paper in Iowa. The WSJ has a large array of government sources, and the government often uses the WSJ to leak info they want out in public without officially announcing it. If this info is inaccurate, you can expect a denial from the government tomorrow, because this is a big deal in a big paper. My bet is that there will be no denial. At most, you'll get a "we have nothing we can report at this time"... followed by more leaks to the press.

Can we give it 100% confidence? No, definitely not. We need some corroboration, either officially or at least independently from other sources. But it's a major publication with a history of government PR giving very detailed specifics on the investigation from the US side. So I tend to believe at least the gist of it.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-12 23:38:03 and read 52810 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 43):
OK, thank you. Does that mean it would not send the data if it crashed?

I would think it's a long shot, but not entirely impossible.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-12 23:38:10 and read 52468 times.

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 34):
Kabul is 4833 so that's out
Pyongyang 4657 so that's out

Accounting for rounding errors, reported numbers being rounded, favorable winds, etc. etc.; either of these two locations could potentially be possible. Considering the surveillance Kim Jon-un must be under, I can't imagine how they would have been able to hide this, though.

[Edited 2014-03-12 23:39:01]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jcxroberts
Posted 2014-03-12 23:41:11 and read 51909 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 6):
I did come across this twitter account: https://twitter.com/flyingwithfish

Either this guy is a Loon, or he knows something much more than we are all being told.

Or both.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 23:41:28 and read 52115 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 31):
Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 25):
If this is true this is just insane.

I would have to say that I find it unbelievable that the plane made a normal landing. I would have to think people would have seen a 777 at low altitudes.

At night it would be very hard to identify the plane. The vast majority can't even identify the type during the daytime..

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 40):
Wouldn't an ACARS report contain a touchdown rate, speed, etc...?

That apparently depends on what the operator subscribes to.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:43:40 and read 51691 times.

Does the WSJ story indicate the radar or transmitter was turned off during flight? How would someone not have leaked it by now if it did land?

[Edited 2014-03-12 23:45:53]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-12 23:43:42 and read 51808 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 44):
Why would Boeing and not the airline get it?

If they have a Boeing maintenance package Boeing would get it. In this case it seems they have a Rolls Royce package, so they get the data.

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 33):
Kabul is 4833 so that's out

I highly doubt they could get it past the US military radar.

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 33):
Pyongyang 4657 so that's out

Again they would have to go past South Korea. Passing through both US Air Force Radar along with South Korean military and civilian radar. Not to mention if the Chinese found out they were hiding it they could squash Kim Jong Il like a bug.

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 33):
Tehran, Iran is 6291 so that's out

Too many people would see it. Iran might be crazy at times. But they aren't stupid.
Pat

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2014-03-12 23:44:34 and read 51335 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 48):
That apparently depends on what the operator subscribes to.

Is it possible that the engine manufacturer gets *all* the data, and only gives the *airline* what it subscribes to? Meaning RR would have everything, but in a normal flight just not give it to MAS because they didn't pay for it? I'm just wondering how this subscription thing actually works when it comes to ACARS data.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-12 23:44:56 and read 51151 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 44):
We don't know that it's accurate. But it is highly detailed, gives specifics on actual briefings going on, and quotes anonymous sources within the US government. And it's the WSJ, not some podunk local paper in Iowa. The WSJ has a large array of government sources, and the government often uses the WSJ to leak info they want out in public without officially announcing it. If this info is inaccurate, you can expect a denial from the government tomorrow, because this is a big deal in a big paper. My bet is that there will be no denial. At most, you'll get a "we have nothing we can report at this time"... followed by more leaks to the press.

I think the reporter has connections to Boeing, so that would be a logical place where he got the information. Boeing is probably involved as they have to put up scenarios in which the ACARS information about the engine performance are being sent. As I understand it, Rolls Royce as the engine manufacurer is the receiver of the ACARS information in this case, so they must have been the first who realized and passed the information to the intelligence officials.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-12 23:46:52 and read 50894 times.

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 5):
1) Hijacking (including by the crew)
2) Hypoxia plus other weirdness explaining the transponder and turn
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 8):

Loss of control is still a possibility.

Technically, so is pilot suicide. If his intention was to make the aircraft hard to find, he may have done a rather good job.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 29):
Has it been confirmed that the person was on MH370? Have authorities moved into that area to search for debris?

The report of the body in a life jacket came out earlier yesterday. As nothing has been reported since, it stands to reason it's unrelated.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: asetiadi
Posted 2014-03-12 23:47:11 and read 50597 times.

I think we have to involve every country to search this plane. Get as much help as possible. We must rely a lot with US sine they have all high tech equipement for this search. Lets involve the aircraft carrier too. We have to find this plane because we must know whats going on. This could be one hell of mystery in history of plane crash.

Now another thing is Boeing and Airbus should make future aircraft with locator signal device that pin point the location of the plane regardless of the situation.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-12 23:47:59 and read 50923 times.

For all of those wondering about the RR engine care the BBC did a documentary on Rolls Royce. Here is a link. It is set to start at when they discuss the engine care program. It goes into a little detail about it. If you have free time watch the whole thing, I thought it was excellent. http://youtu.be/VfomloUg2Gw?t=42m44s
Pat

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:48:32 and read 50340 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 50):
If they have a Boeing maintenance package Boeing would get it. In this case it seems they have a Rolls Royce package, so they get the data.

Thank you. I did not realize it was part of a maintenance package.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 48):
At night it would be very hard to identify the plane. The vast majority can't even identify the type during the daytime..

Good point...I keep forgetting it was night time.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: giopan1975
Posted 2014-03-12 23:49:20 and read 50437 times.

The chain of events began some minutes after leveling off.
The chain of events began in the gap between two national ATCs.
Crews in this region usually keep seat belt sign on until leveling at cruise because there is usually a lot of unstable air and at lower altitudes.
Possible hijackers would wait until reaching cruise altitude and leveling of the plane and seat belt sign off to get on with their plans as they wouldn’t want to create noise coming from the crew earlier of the type “please sir sit down now”.

Do you need hijackers to be terrorists? Why not someone just want to steal a 250 mil USD asset?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 23:50:48 and read 49965 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 51):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 48):
That apparently depends on what the operator subscribes to.

Is it possible that the engine manufacturer gets *all* the data, and only gives the *airline* what it subscribes to? Meaning RR would have everything, but in a normal flight just not give it to MAS because they didn't pay for it? I'm just wondering how this subscription thing actually works when it comes to ACARS data.

I get the feeling that RR analyzes the data and then reports useful parameters and trends to MH. I don't know if MH would need the raw data. Note that this is of course just conjecture on my part.

Come to think of it, I don't even know what deal MH has with RR. They might be leasing the engines, or paying with a "power-by-the-hour" deal. It is quite possible MH doesn't own the engines, nor do any maintenance on them, in which case they might get no data or very little.

[Edited 2014-03-12 23:51:31]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-12 23:51:44 and read 49940 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 53):
The report of the body in a life jacket came out earlier yesterday. As nothing has been reported since, it stands to reason it's unrelated.

Thank you.


About the WSJ story, is it implying the radar or transmitter was turned off during flight? I would think it would be difficult not to leak something about the plane being OK if it really is OK.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 23:53:33 and read 49658 times.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 47):

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 6):
I did come across this twitter account: https://twitter.com/flyingwithfish

Either this guy is a Loon, or he knows something much more than we are all being told.

Or both.

He has made several tweets about the purpose of whatever happened to the flight being "asset acquisition" of 20 employees of Freescale Semiconductor who were on the plane, i.e., hijack the plane, fly it somewhere, use those 20 to do...something...and then...hmm...

He's either suggesting: some nefarious fellows think Freescale doesn't make microchips but in fact makes superweapons so valuable that one should hijack an entire aircraft to force them into slave labor in a cave in the Tribal Regions...

Or, that Al Qaeda wants to expand into making transistor radios.

This is really making me doubt his credibility about the "landing" portion of the ACARS messages to RR.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-12 23:56:06 and read 48908 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 60):
Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 47):

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 6):
I did come across this twitter account: https://twitter.com/flyingwithfish

Either this guy is a Loon, or he knows something much more than we are all being told.

Or both.

He has made several tweets about the purpose of whatever happened to the flight being "asset acquisition" of 20 employees of Freescale Semiconductor who were on the plane, i.e., hijack the plane, fly it somewhere, use those 20 to do...something...and then...hmm...

He's either suggesting: some nefarious fellows think Freescale doesn't make microchips but in fact makes superweapons so valuable that one should hijack an entire aircraft to force them into slave labor in a cave in the Tribal Regions...

Or, that Al Qaeda wants to expand into making transistor radios.

This is really making me doubt his credibility about the "landing" portion of the ACARS messages to RR.

I agree with all that. However I am inclined to think the Wall Street Journal has above par fact checking.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-12 23:56:17 and read 49089 times.

Wait a minute, unless ACARS was turned off or failed after the 4+ hours it was on and working, RR / Boeing / US Gov't ought to know whether the plane landed based on the last ACARS upload right? The upload was either after engine power down or it wasn't? And if it wasn't, it was because of a crash / failure / human intervention after the 4 hour mark.

??

[Edited 2014-03-12 23:57:55]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: flyzapper
Posted 2014-03-12 23:57:15 and read 49262 times.

I have a theory: What if Ethiopian 702 that was diverted to Geneva by the pilot a few weeks ago was a practice run? Some organization wanted to know how easy it would be for the pilot to divert the plane to a chosen location. The Ethiopian 702 scenario had an obvious asylum request, but it could have been a covert fact-finding mission the pilot carried out. This same organization then carried out the actual "kidnapping" of a plane with MH370. There are many lawless and remote areas of Indonesia and the Philippines, all within range of the plane.
Thoughts?

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:02:45]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-12 23:59:27 and read 48641 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
I agree with all that. However I am inclined to think the Wall Street Journal has above par fact checking.

I agree. I doubt WSJ, who broke the story, would jeopardize their reputation on something like this by posting if they didn't have a very good source. So it seems likely that the aircraft did in fact remain in flight for 4-5 hours after loss of contact.

What seems unlikely is that this flyingwithfish guy somehow knows that the aircraft actually landed.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 00:00:05 and read 48567 times.

So, if stolen, why steal a 777?

Valuable cargo?

Use as a weapon?

Hold for ransom?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jcxroberts
Posted 2014-03-13 00:01:06 and read 48260 times.

I don't see hijackers controlling a plane post 9/11. It didn't work for the last plane on 9/11 either. Unless they had sub machine guns. Looks more like hypoxia or the pilots in on a scheme.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Prost
Posted 2014-03-13 00:02:35 and read 47763 times.

Quoting flyzapper (Reply 63):
I have a theory: What if Ethiopian 702 that was diverted to Geneva by the pilot a few weeks ago was a practice run. Some organization wanted to know how easy it would be for the pilot to divert the plane to a chosen location. The Ethiopian 702 scenario had an obvious asylum request, but it could have been a covert fact-finding mission the pilot carried out. This same organization then carried out the actual "kidnapping" of a plane with MH370. There are many lawless and remote areas of Indonesia and the Philippines, all within range of the plane.
Thoughts?



No crazier than some of the other theories I've read.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 00:02:46 and read 47786 times.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 66):
I don't see hijackers controlling a plane post 9/11. It didn't work for the last plane on 9/11 either. Unless they had sub machine guns. Looks more like hypoxia or the pilots in on a scheme.

so lets say the pilots were in on a scheme; that could be anything at this point...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-13 00:03:43 and read 47832 times.

Quoting flyzapper (Reply 63):
The Ethiopian 702 scenario had an obvious asylum request, but it could have been a covert fact-finding mission the pilot carried out. This same organization then carried out the actual "kidnapping" of a plane with MH370. There are many lawless and remote areas of Indonesia and the Philippines, all within range of the plane.
Thoughts?

Although a fair thought, I would have to imagine they could break the pilot pretty quick. I doubt they just arrested him and let him go on his way. They probably questioned the heck out of him.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 64):
I doubt WSJ, who broke the story, would jeopardize their reputation on something like this by posting if they didn't have a very good source. So it seems likely that the aircraft did in fact remain in flight for 4-5 hours after loss of contact.

Exactly. They have a reputation they would like to maintain. People don't forget the big fails.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 64):
What seems unlikely is that this flyingwithfish guy somehow knows that the aircraft actually landed.

That's the part I'm iffy on. I have this feeling it did land. But if they know it landed somewhere why are they focusing so hard on the ocean? Is it a diversion and they have special ops guys ready to take the plane in some jungle? Or is this guy trying to get some more twitter followers?
Pat

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-13 00:05:22 and read 47413 times.

It occurs to me that most of the earlier mechanical failure theories relied on total electrical system failure to simultaneously knock out comms and transponders.

Don't these ACARS messages preclude a total electrical failure, though? They obviously need power.

What subsystem transmits the messages? Is it isolated from the rest of the communications systems (i.e. its own bus connection, entirely its own processing, its own antennas, everything?) If we know the ACARS works, what else do we know works?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:05:25 and read 47370 times.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 66):
Looks more like hypoxia or the pilots in on a scheme.

The former would indicate a crash, then, right?

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 64):
What seems unlikely is that this flyingwithfish guy somehow knows that the aircraft actually landed.

I agree.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: AR385
Posted 2014-03-13 00:05:47 and read 47424 times.

Quoting giopan1975 (Reply 57):
Do you need hijackers to be terrorists? Why not someone just want to steal a 250 mil USD asset?

What are you going to do with it? Sell it in Sotheby´s or Christie´s? People who are in it for the money are not going to steal an airliner with 239 people on board.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-13 00:07:41 and read 47116 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 69):
Is it a diversion and they have special ops guys ready to take the plane in some jungle?

The standoff theory just seems less and less likely. It's been a LONG time for something like that to be going on and nobody to have leaked something about it.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:07:45 and read 47041 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 72):
What are you going to do with it? Sell it in Sotheby´s or Christie´s? People who are in it for the money are not going to steal an airliner with 239 people on board.

Why not? They could sell parts and sell the people too.

I am not saying that is what I think happened, but simply going along with the thought process for that theory.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:08:33]

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:08:54]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-13 00:09:30 and read 46803 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 69):
That's the part I'm iffy on. I have this feeling it did land. But if they know it landed somewhere why are they focusing so hard on the ocean? Is it a diversion and they have special ops guys ready to take the plane in some jungle? Or is this guy trying to get some more twitter followers?

It is quite remarkable that a pilot suicide is the least controversial theory now.

Hijacking the plane and landing it somewhere would be quite a feat from the terrorists. And it would almost certainly require that one of the pilots would be part of the plot. And how could they hide a landing of a 777 in any part of the world?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:09:34 and read 46762 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 73):
It's been a LONG time for something like that to be going on and nobody to have leaked something about it.

That is one of my main thoughts and why I do not think it landed safely.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Prost
Posted 2014-03-13 00:10:04 and read 46218 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 72):


What are you going to do with it? Sell it in Sotheby´s or Christie´s? People who are in it for the money are not going to steal an airliner with 239 people on board.

It'd have to be ebay. Buy it now price.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-13 00:09:07 and read 46320 times.

Quoting flyzapper (Reply 63):
Thoughts?

I think it's Bravo Sierra, but totally in line with this thread.  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-13 00:10:14 and read 46175 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 74):
Why not? They could sell parts and sell the people too.

Who are they going to sell parts to? There's no burgeoning black market trade for modern airliner parts. A chop shop for a 777 would have few customers.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:10:57 and read 46258 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 75):
And how could they hide a landing of a 777 in any part of the world?

That is my other issue with the safe landing theory. Even though it would have been might at the time of landing, it would stick out during the day time.

Also, if it did land safely, why would the passengers not try to reach out to their families?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 00:11:13 and read 46461 times.

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Natio...tion-to-verify-possible-sightings/

what does that mean? This thing keeps getting murkier and murkier by the minute. Hell the future Hollywood movie is writing itself!!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-13 00:11:30 and read 46224 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 74):
Why not? They could sell parts and sell the people too.

I am not saying that is what I think happened

This whole mystery will unravel when two Trent 800s show up on Ebay next week.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 00:12:38 and read 45922 times.

Is it the captain who determines the final fuel load and can request more fuel based on weather / head winds etc? If so, it would be interesting to know how much extra fuel, if any, was requested and by whom? If the captain requested a few hours more fuel than normal then that might lead somewhere...

Also, and I apologize if I missed this in the thousands of other posts, but is the exact fuel load known yet? Surely that would be so easy to find out as it would have been documented - the exact fuel load. By knowing the exact fuel load, one could work out how far it could have traveled from its last known location at various altitudes - I know a lot of maps have been published but most of them were just assuming the plane had 5 hours of fuel left. If it flew low to avoid radar it might have been spotted and it would have not been able to fly as far as if it flew at a high altitude. How high could a 777 with less than 1/2 a tank of fuel fly, 40,000ft +? KUL-PEK is a relatively short mission for a 777. If somebody was going to take one and fly it a long distance you would think that they would take one on a longer route that would have more fuel? Once we get that final fuel figure we can at least work out how far it could have flown without stopping to refuel.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:13:10 and read 45974 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 82):
This whole mystery will unravel when two Trent 800s show up on Ebay next week.

They were RRs, but I know what you mean. Just imagine that for a moment...because imagining a little more at this point can't hurt.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 00:13:12 and read 45998 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 70):
It occurs to me that most of the earlier mechanical failure theories relied on total electrical system failure to simultaneously knock out comms and transponders.

Don't these ACARS messages preclude a total electrical failure, though? They obviously need power.

What subsystem transmits the messages? Is it isolated from the rest of the communications systems (i.e. its own bus connection, entirely its own processing, its own antennas, everything?) If we know the ACARS works, what else do we know works?

Just spitballing here but it is possible. Transponder and radios have switches in the cockpit. Not sure where the circuit breakers are. However ACARS and circuit breaker are, as per previous poster, in an electronics bay. Accessible in flight, yes, but not just by reaching out from a seat in the cockpit.

Absurd scenario 1: Hijack. Bad guys turn off transponder and don't make radio calls. They don't touch ACARS because they don't know about it.

Absurd scenario 2: Massive electrical issue in the center console knocks out comms and radios that are all there. ACARS stays on. This would also have had to knock out the FMCs I suppose since you can text message through ACARS and datalink from those.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:18:00]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: KIAS
Posted 2014-03-13 00:14:33 and read 45602 times.

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 21):
That map is way too conservative. It shows the range as not even making it to its intended destination - PEK.

The range is not based on fuel but on estimated flight time.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 30):
It's not really possible that kind of information is showing up on some aviation consultant's Twitter, is it? Surely something that astounding would be leaked not to him but to a reputable newspaper.

I believe he is speculating, like most folks.

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 40):
Wouldn't an ACARS report contain a touchdown rate, speed, etc...?

Not necessarily. ACARS is a means of transmitting data, in this case EHM data sent from a module in the Trent engines.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 50):
If they have a Boeing maintenance package Boeing would get it. In this case it seems they have a Rolls Royce package, so they get the data.

All of the modern RR engines have the ability to send EHM data.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 51):
Is it possible that the engine manufacturer gets *all* the data, and only gives the *airline* what it subscribes to? Meaning RR would have everything, but in a normal flight just not give it to MAS because they didn't pay for it?

No. In fact the airline pays $5-6 for each message sent. Malaysia has 60 aircraft in its fleet, those costs add up. They will only send what they want to send.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 2):
Presumably, they received a summary? And thus know when the flight ended?

For the reasons as above, I would think MAS would use gatelink for the summaries, which uses a WLAN connection on the ground, rather than transmit via ACARS.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 58):
I get the feeling that RR analyzes the data and then reports useful parameters and trends to MH. I don't know if MH would need the raw data. Note that this is of course just conjecture on my part.

The raw data is the intellectual property of the airline, not the OEM.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 60):
He has made several tweets about the purpose of whatever happened to the flight being "asset acquisition" of 20 employees of Freescale Semiconductor who were on the plane

Seems odd to me that a caper involving 20 engineers didn't result in proper disabling of the a/c broadcasts.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:16:06]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:15:57 and read 45586 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 81):
what does that mean? This thing keeps getting murkier and murkier by the minute. Hell the future Hollywood movie is writing itself!!

It does not necessarily mean that he is going to a possible landing site. What it does mean is that he is going to an area where people think they saw the plane. That could mean it was when it was in the air or on the ground. What makes it interesting is that they are keeping the location undisclosed.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-13 00:16:19 and read 45476 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 81):
what does that mean? This thing keeps getting murkier and murkier by the minute. Hell the future Hollywood movie is writing itself!!

If the story has any accuracy to it, it sounds like a hostage negotiation. It is beyond unbelievable.

Edit: And to be clear, I don't believe this kind of scenario to be possible.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:23:21]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-13 00:16:30 and read 45529 times.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 86):
I believe he is speculating, like most folks.

He is claiming that he has insider information that the RR ACARS reports include an after-flight summary, implying the plane landed successfully. That goes a bit beyond "speculating."

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 00:16:45 and read 45322 times.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 86):
Seems odd to me that a caper involving 20 engineers didn't result in proper disabling of the a/c broadcasts.

An oversight?

History is littered with nefarious activities foiled by a missed detail. Perhaps engine reporting is quite outside a pilots' sphere of awareness, so it was never thought of.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: AY-MD11
Posted 2014-03-13 00:16:50 and read 45439 times.

If the plane was hijacked or the pilot/pilots was the hijacker then the engine data that show it flying for 4-5 hours,maybe they try to fool the investigators.
What if they landed somewhere and left the engines running for hours in ground. Does the engine data show the power/rpm too?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 00:16:50 and read 45533 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 82):
Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 74):
Why not? They could sell parts and sell the people too.

I am not saying that is what I think happened

This whole mystery will unravel when two Trent 800s show up on Ebay next week.

I know the circumstances are grim but I couldn't help but   

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 84):
Quoting flood (Reply 82):
This whole mystery will unravel when two Trent 800s show up on Ebay next week.

They were RRs, but I know what you mean. Just imagine that for a moment...because imagining a little more at this point can't hurt.

"Trent" is the model name of this RR engine type. RR engines are typically named for rivers in Britain.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 83):
Is it the captain who determines the final fuel load and can request more fuel based on weather / head winds etc? If so, it would be interesting to know how much extra fuel, if any, was requested and by whom? If the captain requested a few hours more fuel than normal then that might lead somewhere...

Yes, the captain has the final say and can add "Captain's Discretion" or "Extra" fuel beyond the usual taxi, trip, alternate, contingency and final reserve. If a Captain does this too often for no good reason, he'll soon be having a coffee with the chief pilot, but of course in your scenario the Captain will be long gone by then.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:17:34]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hiflyer
Posted 2014-03-13 00:16:41 and read 45696 times.

so lessee....RR says their motors turned for 4hrs after last contact per the WSJ. Hmmm
Aircraft was at 29.5 why 29.5? well it's below most commercial traffic and if you are not going for max range fairly fuel efficient and lowers your exposure to primary radar returns at long range just a bit.
Aircraft reportedly made course changes not on flight plan so pretty much leaves out incapacitated cockpit someone.
One other note...lot been said about minimal to near response to 'unknown targets' on radar not causing alarms...I would allow that perhaps because there is frequently unknown primary targets in the region....at night...
Still no word what, if anything, was onboard as cargo. Also no big public chatter of anyone of importance on the pax list.
As others have stated...too much not being said...   

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: flyzapper
Posted 2014-03-13 00:19:13 and read 45087 times.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 78):

Quoting flyzapper (Reply 63):
Thoughts?

I think it's Bravo Sierra, but totally in line with this thread.  

I also think my theory is one of the craziest things I have heard, but terrorists are known to do practice runs before the actual attack. The 9/11 hijackers did this. The engine status data the WSJ is reporting appears to suggest a controlled flight for quite some time. The biggest question with the engine status data is the state of the engines at the final transmission. If they were reported to shut down normally, then all bets are off.....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Airbus747
Posted 2014-03-13 00:19:14 and read 45418 times.

Dear Aviation Enthusiasts, I have followed this website for years, enjoyed photography and read multiple discussions on this forum - though never contributed myself.

What drove me to register and pay for membership was this specific long discussion - and a few questions that I think have never been addressed in the various segments of this story (apologies if they did) :

1) What is the likelihood of a sudden meteorological condition affecting flight systems and instruments (including the transponder) on this aircraft?
e.g. lightning strike or volcanic ash (there was an eruption a few weeks ago in Indonesia I reckon).
Could they have caused similar or worse conditions to British Airways Flight 9 or KLM Flight 867, maybe in a sequence e.g. starting by disabling the transponder, then other things (maybe even disabling flight crew)?

2) Is there any chance for a massively powerful crash to virtually vaporize (and thus make fully disappear) any remaining part of the aircraft?

And a less serious question, though for some reason I just couldn't help noticing...

3) This forum seems to be a largely international community and I recall that during many previous incidents (or other major forum topics) there were at least a few contributions to the discussion by locals, people located close to the incident, people with contacts to the airline, etc.
Well, I haven't come across any comments from Malaysia so far... I simply would be interested to hear more about what the local aviation enthusiasts/experts/pilots/etc think - provided that we actually have any members from there!
So, if you are out there, what do you think is going on?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-13 00:19:15 and read 45219 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 84):
imagining a little more at this point can't hurt

With all due respect.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 29):
As a journalist

You might want to spend more time carefully reading these threads.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:20:14]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-13 00:19:21 and read 45008 times.

Does anyone know what the applicable cutoff in flight time is for adding a third crew member. It seems like MH 370 might be pretty close to the threshold, not that that means anything in and of itself.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-13 00:19:28 and read 45031 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 75):
It is quite remarkable that a pilot suicide is the least controversial theory now.

And sad at the same time.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 75):
Hijacking the plane and landing it somewhere would be quite a feat from the terrorists. And it would almost certainly require that one of the pilots would be part of the plot. And how could they hide a landing of a 777 in any part of the world?

Who knows. But this is getting more and more bizarre. It's almost as if you can't rule anything out.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 80):
Also, if it did land safely, why would the passengers not try to reach out to their families?

If they managed to put it down in a remote area, and somehow out of nowhere got a runway long enough, they may not have cell coverage.
Pat

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 00:20:32 and read 44736 times.

Quoting AY-MD11 (Reply 91):
If the plane was hijacked or the pilot/pilots was the hijacker then the engine data that show it flying for 4-5 hours,maybe they try to fool the investigators.
What if they landed somewhere and left the engines running for hours in ground. Does the engine data show the power/rpm too?

Or it flew well beyond its destination (to make the data misleading) and then turned around, came back, and landed...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 00:21:17 and read 44788 times.

Quoting AY-MD11 (Reply 91):

If the plane was hijacked or the pilot/pilots was the hijacker then the engine data that show it flying for 4-5 hours,maybe they try to fool the investigators.
What if they landed somewhere and left the engines running for hours in ground. Does the engine data show the power/rpm too?

If it didn't it would be pretty useless to RR and MH I think.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 93):
Aircraft was at 29.5 why 29.5? well it's below most commercial traffic and if you are not going for max range fairly fuel efficient and lowers your exposure to primary radar returns at long range just a bit.

As was mentioned before, 29500 is quite logical whether you are talking hijacking or mechanical problems with no comms, or at least the "500" bit is. Since it is not a designated flight level so you run much less risk of a mid-air.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:21:40]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: XFSUgimpLB41X
Posted 2014-03-13 00:21:34 and read 44905 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 52):
I think the reporter has connections to Boeing, so that would be a logical place where he got the information.

Andy Paztor, the author, is probably the finest mainstream aviation reporter in the industry. I worked with him after the Colgan accident at his request via a friend who is connected. I respect virtually no reporter when it comes to aviation reporting except for Andy. He was able to communicate effectively with me at a technical and a big picture level. If he wrote this, I trust that he is down a valid path.

Next up... We have an airplane that lost comm and turned off its transponder right at the FIR boundary after the hand off. I hate to say it, but that screams pilot involvement. At a FIR handoff in VHF and radar contact, radar service is terminated via the previous agency, but you're right back in it with the next controlling agency. It's too much of a coincidence for a hand off then loss of contact without a check in without a rain of fire, metal, and people in that general area.

The plot has thickened greatly... I bet the NSA/CIA/and so on has been far up Boeing's rear end for a good bit now trying to figure this out.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 00:21:44 and read 44893 times.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 93):

so lessee....RR says their motors turned for 4hrs after last contact per the WSJ. Hmmm
Aircraft was at 29.5 why 29.5? well it's below most commercial traffic and if you are not going for max range fairly fuel efficient and lowers your exposure to primary radar returns at long range just a bit.
Aircraft reportedly made course changes not on flight plan so pretty much leaves out incapacitated cockpit someone.
One other note...lot been said about minimal to near response to 'unknown targets' on radar not causing alarms...I would allow that perhaps because there is frequently unknown primary targets in the region....at night...
Still no word what, if anything, was onboard as cargo. Also no big public chatter of anyone of importance on the pax list.
As others have stated...too much not being said..

at this point i can imagine a special ops mission being planned (Delta Force, SEAL Team 6) to retake the plane if its found in some jungle somewhere. Crazy, that fiction might be actually not far from the truth.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:24:04]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:21:56 and read 44726 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 92):
Trent" is the model name of this RR engine type. RR engines are typically named for rivers in Britain.

Sorry, but thank you. It is very late here, so I just realized it was Trent RRs. My bad and that was a stupid mistake on my part.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 83):
but is the exact fuel load known yet?

I do not believe it is.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 00:24:59 and read 44120 times.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 86):

For the reasons as above, I would think MAS would use gatelink for the summaries, which uses a WLAN connection on the ground, rather than transmit via ACARS

Then it's very unlikely that a summary report was received from the RR engines, and my theory is ruled out.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 00:26:24 and read 43745 times.

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 95):
1) What is the likelihood of a sudden meteorological condition affecting flight systems and instruments (including the transponder) on this aircraft?
e.g. lightning strike or volcanic ash (there was an eruption a few weeks ago in Indonesia I reckon).
Could they have caused similar or worse conditions to British Airways Flight 9 or KLM Flight 867, maybe in a sequence e.g. starting by disabling the transponder, then other things (maybe even disabling flight crew)?

Astronomically unlikely. No weather forecasts or reports indicate anything and no other aircraft on the route around that time noticed anything.

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 95):
2) Is there any chance for a massively powerful crash to virtually vaporize (and thus make fully disappear) any remaining part of the aircraft?

I don't think so. Even a massive explosion like TWA800 left large pieces intact. You'd need a truly massive bomb, or probably multiple bombs at different locations. Even then methinks you'd have pieces of stabilizer and wing left.

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 95):
3) This forum seems to be a largely international community and I recall that during many previous incidents (or other major forum topics) there were at least a few contributions to the discussion by locals, people located close to the incident, people with contacts to the airline, etc.
Well, I haven't come across any comments from Malaysia so far... I simply would be interested to hear more about what the local aviation enthusiasts/experts/pilots/etc think - provided that we actually have any members from there!
So, if you are out there, what do you think is going on?

He's not Malaysian, but mandala499, an Indonesian, has vast experience in this region and industry. His posts are always worth reading.

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 97):
Does anyone know what the applicable cutoff in flight time is for adding a third crew member. It seems like MH 370 might be pretty close to the threshold, not that that means anything in and of itself.

Depends on national regs but typically 8-10 hours flight time plus a few more for the total duty time.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:28:38]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:28:12 and read 43351 times.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 96):
You might want to spend more time carefully reading these threads.

You are right and I do. I did not expect to be on here this long and as I mentioned it is late for me.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 98):
It's almost as if you can't rule anything out.

I agree with that and my mind is opening even more to ideas that I thought were crazy two days ago.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-13 00:28:36 and read 43759 times.

Didn't see this before from WSJ:

“The disappearance is officially now an accident and all information about this is strictly handled by investigators,” said another Rolls-Royce executive, citing rules by the International Civil Aviation Organization, a United Nations agency. The executive declined to be named.


"Officially now an accident."

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: KIAS
Posted 2014-03-13 00:29:00 and read 43547 times.

Quoting AY-MD11 (Reply 91):
What if they landed somewhere and left the engines running for hours in ground. Does the engine data show the power/rpm too?


They would know.

Engine sensors on the Trent 800 include:
- Inlet pressure / temp
- Shaft speeds
- Vibration
- Turbofan power ratio
- Gas temp
- HP / LP delivery pressure
- more...

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:30:34]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 00:29:18 and read 43533 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 105):

Then it's very unlikely that a summary report was received from the RR engines, and my theory is ruled out.

so data was being sent after the transponder turned off, for about 4-5 hours, from the engines...but then that data stopped? Is that what the timeline is now?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 00:30:00 and read 43417 times.

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 108):



"Officially now an accident."

I believe "now" should be "not".

Other accounts have it as "not an accident."

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: laxboeingman
Posted 2014-03-13 00:30:03 and read 43213 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 105):

Quoting KIAS (Reply 86):

For the reasons as above, I would think MAS would use gatelink for the summaries, which uses a WLAN connection on the ground, rather than transmit via ACARS

Then it's very unlikely that a summary report was received from the RR engines, and my theory is ruled out.

If the plane was brought down in a remote area, but the area was home to a group that used WiFi, then it could be possible.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-13 00:30:50 and read 43111 times.

Quoting hamiltondaniel (Reply 89):
He is claiming that he has insider information that the RR ACARS reports include an after-flight summary, implying the plane landed successfully. That goes a bit beyond "speculating."

It could as easily be that the final report was the fault condition of the engines running down through fuel exhaustion..

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 00:31:45 and read 42992 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 112):
If the plane was brought down in a remote area, but the area was home to a group that used WiFi, then it could be possible.

I doubt it would connect with any old wifi.

Perhaps if it can't connect via wifi, it reverts to the VHF link?

I dunno...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jcxroberts
Posted 2014-03-13 00:32:56 and read 43067 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
He has made several tweets about the purpose of whatever happened to the flight being "asset acquisition" of 20 employees of Freescale Semiconductor who were on the plane, i.e., hijack the plane, fly it somewhere, use those 20 to do...something...and then...hmm...

He's either suggesting: some nefarious fellows think Freescale doesn't make microchips but in fact makes superweapons so valuable that one should hijack an entire aircraft to force them into slave labor in a cave in the Tribal Regions...

Or, that Al Qaeda wants to expand into making transistor radios.

He thinks the plane landed in China.

Which reminds that the earliest report was that it landed in China. Then the report was retracted.

Freescale has a lot of classified work with DoD

He's clearly connected if you go through his twitter, but that doesn't make him right.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 00:33:13 and read 42752 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 113):
It could as easily be that the final report was the fault condition of the engines running down through fuel exhaustion..

Meaning a crash?

But the tone of the reports seems to be toward a landing somewhere.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-13 00:33:29 and read 42846 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 111):
I believe "now" should be "not".

Other accounts have it as "not an accident."

The *not an accident* is what the WSJ originally reported but they corrected it to *accident*.

Posted 2014-03-13 00:36:06 and read 42049 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 112):
If the plane was brought down in a remote area, but the area was home to a group that used WiFi, then it could be possible.

No, gatelink services don't work that way. It's not like a mobile phone, for example, which is constantly searching for WiFi networks. These are secure, proprietary solutions.

For example, see GateFusion -
http://www.arinc.com/sectors/aviatio...ine/communications/gatefusion.html

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 00:36:27 and read 42048 times.

Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 117):
The *not an accident* is what the WSJ originally reported but they corrected it to *accident*.

Well, that typo was not helpful...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Aesma
Posted 2014-03-13 00:36:54 and read 42249 times.

I woke up to this ACARS "information/news/speculation", I'm really surprised it took so long to get investigated, especially considering what happened with AF447 !

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-13 00:37:57 and read 42497 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 119):
Well, that typo was not helpful...

Agree! RR must have flipped out when they saw that. Here's the article with correction:

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 00:40:15 and read 41722 times.

http://translate.google.com/translat...iakini.com%2Fnews%2F256954&act=url

Pilot activated the code "Tango"---code for hijacking or confiscation. Sounds pretty far-fetched but at this rate all we can do is throw something up on the wall and see if it sticks.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-13 00:41:57 and read 41574 times.

If the engines had recorded data post-landing, and transmitted that then this is the most fascinating detail to emerge - albeit has it been confirmed by anyone other than the WSJ report?

I didn't see answered yet, but would that transmission occur post-landing or 'close to' landing? If post then we have to assume it is down somewhere largely intact, if prior then that could still be a crash scenario.

Secondly, if ACARS was off (deliberately or otherwise) does that mean the transponders are off too? Otherwise how would the engine data have been transmitted, are there independent transponders in the engines for example?

Be great for some 777 savvy folk to help enlighten.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: trent900
Posted 2014-03-13 00:46:36 and read 40452 times.

Morning everyone. I've been trying to keep upto date with the thread with difficulty due to it's speed.

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 33):
crap at maps, but according to MH own website the 772 cruises @ 0.84 Mach/897kmh, so lets base a few cities on 5 hours @ 850kmh = 4250km

First up

Colombo is 2458
Kabul is 4833 so that's out
Pyongyang 4657 so that's out
Mogadishu, Somalia is 6265 so that's out
Yemen is 6030 so that's out
Tehran, Iran is 6291 so that's out
Sochi is 7537 so that's out
Kiev, Ukraine is 8411 so that's out

unless it flew for longer than 5 hours, it's potential max Range is around 12,779 km...in which case all of the above are within range

I issue I have with this theory is the aircraft would not have this available range due to its potential lower FL.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 59):
About the WSJ story, is it implying the radar or transmitter was turned off during flight?

If the 'aircrafts' radar and transponder where turned off you would still receive a radar return from a ground based station, just without craft info.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 93):
Aircraft was at 29.5 why 29.5? well it's below most commercial traffic and if you are not going for max range fairly fuel efficient and lowers your exposure to primary radar returns at long range just a bit.

This makes me wonder how low the aircraft would have to be flown to stay out of reach of any radar station in the area. If they had flown on for even 1000nm I'm sure someone would have picked up a return?

D.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-13 00:47:35 and read 40462 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 116):
But the tone of the reports seems to be toward a landing somewhere.

I don't get that from the article.

But this whole thing is very confusing, the RR monitoring guys must have read the newspapers and checked the system more or less immediatly, if the data said MH370 was on the ground and fine don't you think they would have passed this information on to somebody?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 00:47:48 and read 40518 times.

Okay, so nother possibility is that the RR system sent a report when the engines ran out of fuel in flight. That should generate data reports as the engines fail.

That would mean a crash wherever it ran out of fuel.

That seems most likely.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 00:49:03 and read 40440 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 125):
I don't get that from the article.

But this whole thing is very confusing, the RR monitoring guys must have read the newspapers and checked the system more or less immediatly, if the data said MH370 was on the ground and fine don't you think they would have passed this information on to somebody?

what if they passed it on and the location is being kept secret? I don't know, with the way things are going, we will all wake up Thursday morning with Breaking News that the Plane has been found and ransom demands are being made....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: airbuster
Posted 2014-03-13 00:49:50 and read 40453 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 123):
Secondly, if ACARS was off (deliberately or otherwise) does that mean the transponders are off too? Otherwise how would the engine data have been transmitted, are there independent transponders in the engines for example?

The data stream from the engines sent via ACARS cannot (in my experience) be turned off by anyone on the flight deck in flight. It is however possible for ACARS to lose a connection but I believe the 777 ACARS uses a mix of ground based and satellite signals to make the chances of this happening very remote.

The transponder used for SSR is a complete separate system.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 00:51:19 and read 40118 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 125):
I don't get that from the article.

But this whole thing is very confusing, the RR monitoring guys must have read the newspapers and checked the system more or less immediatly, if the data said MH370 was on the ground and fine don't you think they would have passed this information on to somebody?

Yeah, the tone was retracted after my post. WSJ changed "not an accident" to "now an accident".

I don't know what's going on with the ACARS reports. It's confusing.

Maybe it took time to get and verify the data?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 00:52:18 and read 39750 times.

Going with the theory that there was a decompression/hypoxic event; how would the transponder switch off in that case?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 00:52:57 and read 39835 times.

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 103):
at this point i can imagine a special ops mission being planned (Delta Force, SEAL Team 6) to retake the plane if its found in some jungle somewhere. Crazy, that fiction might be actually not far from the truth.

Why? The 777 is not a technological asset per se (it's not like a stolen military prototype jet); if it's found in "some jungle somewhere" it will probably never fly again. The only thing you'd be fighting for is the passengers, if they are still alive. The plane would have to be capable of reaching a usable runway to even begin thinking about recovering it. There might be a slightly higher chance of sending in a team to recover just the FDR/CVR to see "what happened", but if you find the aircraft in the jungle of a foreign country...well, most of the story is right there. It was "planejacked".

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 115):
He thinks the plane landed in China.

I struggle with this one. China is not at all above espionage, cyber warfare, etc.; but this would be INCREDIBLY brazen if it were a government sponsored plan. It would be right up there with Russia's entering of Crimea... They would bring the condemnation of the world down upon themselves. 20 Freescale employees - and the contents of their laptops - might be incredibly valuable, but not enough to take a 777 like this.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: hamiltondaniel
Posted 2014-03-13 00:55:07 and read 39606 times.

One thing to keep in mind as hijack theories seem increasingly likely:

The most complex hijacking operation in history, September 11th, was still fairly simple. It involved box cutters and small knives and relied on passengers not attempting to retake the aircraft. Even then, they hit three of four intended targets, they did not account for flight delays that cause United 93 to take off much later than the other flights, none of the planes were in the air after the hijackings for very long, and the operation rested much less on sophistication than on exploiting obvious weaknesses in American security screenings.

If MH370 has been hijacked with an intent to repurpose the aircraft for some later attack, that is so far beyond September 11th in terms of sophistication, complexity, planning, difficulty, training required, resources required, etc., that it boggles the mind. I am not saying such a plot is impossible; but for it to be executed this well, such that the aircraft has simply vanished, the group carrying out this attack would need to be far more advanced and sophisticated than Al Qaeda was on September 10th, 2001. To the best of our knowledge, no group anywhere in the world even comes close to that. I doubt if most militaries could even accomplish the feat without error.

[Edited 2014-03-13 00:57:18]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Finn350
Posted 2014-03-13 00:58:32 and read 39098 times.

Guys, the plane is hijacked in China. Everything else is smokescree.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 00:59:22 and read 38791 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 131):

Why? The 777 is not a technological asset per se (it's not like a stolen military prototype jet); if it's found in "some jungle somewhere" it will probably never fly again. The only thing you'd be fighting for is the passengers, if they are still alive. The plane would have to be capable of reaching a usable runway to even begin thinking about recovering it. There might be a slightly higher chance of sending in a team to recover just the FDR/CVR to see "what happened", but if you find the aircraft in the jungle of a foreign country...well, most of the story is right there. It was "planejacked".

By retake the plane i meant maybe the passengers are being kept on the plane as some sort of bargaining chip for who knows what; hence "retaking the plane" would involve rescuing the passengers. But now with RR officially saying this is an accident, i think we can put all our wild speculation to rest...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-13 01:00:40 and read 38441 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 131):
I struggle with this one. China is not at all above espionage, cyber warfare, etc.; but this would be INCREDIBLY brazen if it were a government sponsored plan. It would be right up there with Russia's entering of Crimea... They would bring the condemnation of the world down upon themselves. 20 Freescale employees - and the contents of their laptops - might be incredibly valuable, but not enough to take a 777 like this.

I can't beleive that for a moment either ... in any case, good old laptop bag theft is much easier!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-13 01:01:30 and read 38618 times.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 115):
He thinks the plane landed in China.

Which reminds that the earliest report was that it landed in China. Then the report was retracted.

There was speculation of an emergency landing in Nanjing. But how would this stay unnoticed at a major airport? Plus: If it had continued its way to China, Vietnamese military should have a radar track all along its territory, so much more to work with than the lonely "blip" the Malaysian military is investigating in the Andaman sea.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-13 01:01:49 and read 38625 times.

I wish people would stop suggesting hypoxia/ slow de-pressurisation as a likely cause. This theory has a single. serious, flaw: It does not explain the lack of transponder data, ACARS or Radar return.
I think we can rule that scenario out immediately. Besides, the 777 is far more sophisticated than the 737, it's pressurisation systems just would not let the pilots think it is all OK while gently sending them off into a hypoxic coma.
Also, if there was a more sudden de pressurisation event, the pilots would don their masks. There are no ifs and buts. The second a de pressurisation is suspected, even a first year pilot cadet knows to put their mask on! Even if they were nitwits and didn't do so, it STILL doesn't explain the total lack of data from the aircraft.

Move one people!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: asteriskceo
Posted 2014-03-13 01:02:47 and read 38202 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 135):
But now with RR officially saying this is an accident, i think we can put all our wild speculation to rest...

I don't understand how they can say, officially, that this is an accident. Why can't they just come out and tell us why they have come to this conclusion?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 01:03:51 and read 38229 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 139):

I wish people would stop suggesting hypoxia/ slow de-pressurisation as a likely cause. This theory has a single. serious, flaw: It does not explain the lack of transponder data, ACARS or Radar return.
I think we can rule that scenario out immediately. Besides, the 777 is far more sophisticated than the 737, it's pressurisation systems just would not let the pilots think it is all OK while gently sending them off into a hypoxic coma.
Also, if there was a more sudden de pressurisation event, the pilots would don their masks. There are no ifs and buts. The second a de pressurisation is suspected, even a first year pilot cadet knows to put their mask on! Even if they were nitwits and didn't do so, it STILL doesn't explain the total lack of data from the aircraft.

Move one people!

so then we are back to the hijack/terrorism angle....if the engines kept sending out data for 4-5 hours; and the transponder was still off...then what?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-13 01:04:54 and read 37940 times.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 133):
Guys, the plane is hijacked in China. Everything else is smokescree.

That does actually make sense, if it was seperatists China would not admit it unless they had too. They would rather it be written off as a crash mystery and heap blame on the Malaysians.

So.. Do we have any A.net eyes on the airport where it was first rumoured the plane landed?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: ThunderboltDrgn
Posted 2014-03-13 01:08:24 and read 37255 times.

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 13):
Some of you guys are great at making maps. Can someone make a map with a radius from the last know point showing how far this plane could have flown if it did fly 5 hours more. That would help a lot of us visualize up to where this plane could have gone.

Here are some cities that are within and outside the possible range:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=NAW-LHW...SG=.84&SU=mach&E=240&EV=389&EU=kts

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-13 01:08:51 and read 37149 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 141):
so then we are back to the hijack/terrorism angle....if the engines kept sending out data for 4-5 hours; and the transponder was still off...then what?

Since anything is possible, perhaps there was a fuselage crack that depressurized AND damaged comms equipment?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 01:13:39 and read 36488 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 144):
Since anything is possible, perhaps there was a fuselage crack that depressurized AND damaged comms equipment?

Since 9M-MRO was not part of that AD, why would we have a fuselage crack? What would crack it?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: philask
Posted 2014-03-13 01:16:09 and read 35846 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 144):
Since anything is possible, perhaps there was a fuselage crack that depressurized AND damaged comms equipment?

So where's the debris?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-13 01:16:44 and read 35890 times.

No, less than that step... I think there were reports of blue suede shoes earlier...

Quoting trent900 (Reply 124):
If the 'aircrafts' radar and transponder where turned off you would still receive a radar return from a ground based station, just without craft info.

The "radar" on an aircraft in the nose is exclusively for weather. It has no other purpose. The transponder getting turned off would result in it disappearing from MSSR antennae. It would also render it invisible to other aircraft on their TCAS, as these functions are tied together.

The "ground based station" you refer to, would be a PSR (primary surveillance radar) and civilian versions of this are very low range affairs, designed to cover only around 50nm or so around an airport. There may be HUGE areas of countries with no primary surveillance radar coverage.

Military grade systems are entirely different and I don't really have time to explain them. But they are thousands of times more advanced than their civilian counterparts and it is this type of system that was able to track an aircraft without a transponder and is able to provide both distance and altitude information.

[Edited 2014-03-13 14:18:00 by SA7700]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: flyingturtle
Posted 2014-03-13 01:17:41 and read 36006 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 122):

A "tango" code - never heard since I'm here lurking on a.nut. Maybe it's company-internal lingo?



But its interesting to see some little developments on the story (ACARS data, Boeing and RR).

I want to say thank you all the contributors on our wiki. Of course I'll continue updating this wiki if new trusted or speculative information pops up or already debunked claims are repeated.

Let me also thank rcair1 for letting me steal his very comprehensive summary back in thread 16.



David

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-13 01:19:10 and read 35817 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 141):
so then we are back to the hijack/terrorism angle

To be honest, that has been my main suspicion for a while now.

If you think about it, it makes sense: Pull circuit breakers to turn off all transmissions from the plane, so you essentially become invisible. And head off where ever you want. Only I suspect either something went wrong and they crashed, or they intentionally ditched/crashed.

My biggest fear is, if the transponder, ACARS, etc were intentionally turned off, the FDR and CVR circuit breakers could also have been pulled. If so, we may never know the exact sequence of event.

The Silkair 737 had it's circuit breakers for the CVR and FDR pulled right after the co-pilot left for the toilet. So, it is not in the realms of fantasy to suggest it!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jcxroberts
Posted 2014-03-13 01:22:25 and read 35008 times.

And go where ?

There's nowhere really to go. Unless a state actor is involved.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 01:23:07 and read 35244 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 142):
Quoting Finn350 (Reply 133):
Guys, the plane is hijacked in China. Everything else is smokescree.

That does actually make sense, if it was seperatists China would not admit it unless they had too. They would rather it be written off as a crash mystery and heap blame on the Malaysians.

It could also explain the way China is acting towards Malaysia in the media, acting very annoyed and saying Malaysia is not doing enough. Of course the Chinese would be annoyed if this is an accident, but if they are in on it why not act like the victim to draw attention to others...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 01:23:51 and read 35197 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 147):
Military grade systems are entirely different and I don't really have time to explain them. But they are thousands of times more advanced than their civilian counterparts and it is this type of system that was able to track an aircraft without a transponder and is able to provide both distance and altitude information.

then if the plane did fly for 4-5 hours, surely military radar would have picked it up?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: uta999
Posted 2014-03-13 01:27:21 and read 34637 times.

You would fly at 29.5 to avoid hitting anything coming the other way at 300, or we're selecting a lower altitude on autopilot when overcome.

The fact that no passengers / crew used their mobile phones, means it didn't fly close to land, or they were in hypoxia.

The home MH 772 simulator is looking more and more suspicious, possibly.

The US needs to be wary of any incoming UFO from the east or west.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 01:28:33 and read 34311 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 123):
Secondly, if ACARS was off (deliberately or otherwise) does that mean the transponders are off too? Otherwise how would the engine data have been transmitted, are there independent transponders in the engines for example?

Transponder is an independent system from ACARS. You could totally disable or remove one and the other would still work.

Quoting trent900 (Reply 124):
Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 59):
About the WSJ story, is it implying the radar or transmitter was turned off during flight?

If the 'aircrafts' radar and transponder where turned off you would still receive a radar return from a ground based station, just without craft info.

Just to be clear, there are only two kinds of onboard radar.
1. Weather radar, which can be used to look ahead for clouds with precipitation and (somewhat) terrain.
2. Radar altimeter. Used to determine height over the ground or sea at low altitudes.

Quoting airbuster (Reply 128):
The data stream from the engines sent via ACARS cannot (in my experience) be turned off by anyone on the flight deck in flight. It is however possible for ACARS to lose a connection but I believe the 777 ACARS uses a mix of ground based and satellite signals to make the chances of this happening very remote.

Not in the cockpit, but anything can be turned off in flight. You'd have to access the electronics bay to get to the breakers.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 133):
Guys, the plane is hijacked in China. Everything else is smokescree.

Motive?

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 147):
Quoting nm2582 (Reply 134):
Are we only one step away from an Elvis connection now?

No, less than that step... I think there were reports of blue suede shoes earlier...

  

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 148):
want to say thank you all the contributors on our wiki. Of course I'll continue updating this wiki if new trusted or speculative information pops up or already debunked claims are repeated.

Link again please?

[Edited 2014-03-13 01:30:52]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: philask
Posted 2014-03-13 01:31:10 and read 34017 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 153):
The US needs to be wary of any incoming UFO from the east or west.

Far fetched but I'm also pretty sure they're quite hot on this already  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-13 01:33:08 and read 33532 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 151):
It could also explain the way China is acting towards Malaysia in the media, acting very annoyed and saying Malaysia is not doing enough. Of course the Chinese would be annoyed if this is an accident, but if they are in on it why not act like the victim to draw attention to others...

Shame the tomnod map sequence doesn't go up as far as china, it might be worth a nosey..

I know that the border area in southern china is a closed millitary zone so there would be no witnesses to any dodgyness, if they were lucky the Chinese could bring a hijacked plane down with no witnesses.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2014-03-13 01:33:58 and read 33589 times.

I just can't believe there isn't a system or device installed in the multi million dollar planes that does not give a signal to where a plane is. Kind of like a On star device in a car, or a lojack system that can't just be switched off. I hope this mystery brings forth a system that won't bring these frustrations in future crashes.

This whole ordeal must be agonizing for loved ones.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: LTC8K6
Posted 2014-03-13 01:34:08 and read 33313 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 156):

I know that the border area in southern china is a closed millitary zone so there would be no witnesses to any dodgyness, if they were lucky the Chinese could bring a hijacked plane down with no witnesses.

What do they want an old 777 for?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 01:35:51 and read 33302 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 153):
The fact that no passengers / crew used their mobile phones, means it didn't fly close to land, or they were in hypoxia.

Is there a way for the crew or persons flying to depressurize the cabin to knock the passengers out whilst not being affected? Could that be done without the oxygen masks coming down? Regardless, I've heard that there is only about 5-10 mins of oxygen available for passengers - just enough to get down to a safe altitude.

If the crew was involved, they might have already had the passengers out before their last communication or well before radar contact was lost. Over the sea between two countries might seem like the ideal place to start flying off course to where ever after already having taken care of the housekeeping...

[Edited 2014-03-13 01:38:37]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: MH772
Posted 2014-03-13 01:37:29 and read 33078 times.

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 95):
Well, I haven't come across any comments from Malaysia so far... I simply would be interested to hear more about what the local aviation enthusiasts/experts/pilots/etc think - provided that we actually have any members from there!
So, if you are out there, what do you think is going on?

Though I can't speak for all residents of Malaysia, as a person who has been following the local media and press daily, it's fair to say that the ministries, govt agencies, etc. have really been disappointing in their approach and actions in carrying out a plan to locate and updating the public on MH370. Answers and statements given by the ministers, generals, director generals, CEO, etc. during the press conferences have been vague, conflicting, and repetitive to say the least. As for the SAR coordination, they've done a crappy job of coordinating and liaising with other countries as Vietnam is scaling back their efforts, and China is growing more and more unconvinced and impatient with results produced thus far.

Though some members here are suggesting interesting govt conspiracies and/or cover-ups, having lived in Malaysia for a number of years now, I believe the parties involved in the SAR are just plain incompetent and clueless. Just to give you folks an idea of how Minister of Defence/Transport Hishamuddin and Chief of Armed Forces, General Zulkifeli carry out their duties, try and search for articles on the 2013 Lahad Datu standoff/conflict. One thing I gathered from the events last year was these two individuals are not the best choice of characters to lead and/or coordinate operations, when the "sh*t hits the fan". It's probably best for Malaysia to relinquish their role as the leader for the SAR, and pass it over to either the Americans and/or the French.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: rheinwaldner
Posted 2014-03-13 01:38:27 and read 32718 times.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 66):
Looks more like hypoxia or the pilots in on a scheme.

There is one reasoning for the latter:
The unusual events started exactly in the rather short timeslot, when the flight was handed over between two Air Traffic Control Centers. In case this condition would be relevant for the intended plot we can assume that only the cockpit crew was aware, when exactly that moment would be.

In other words:
Without cooperation from the cockpit it is quite unlikely, that a hijacker could start activities exactly in that timeslot.

Quoting sipadan (Reply 22):
I will post more when I have more info.

Roger, me too.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 01:38:33 and read 33087 times.

I half jokingly posted this picture four days ago. Now I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. (If you don't get the reference read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_714 and ignore the later parts of the story.)

http://voyager.blogs.com/images/secondlife/carreidas160.jpg

At this point, I'm just waiting for this whole angle to be debunked because it is all starting to feel a bit too much like a direct-to-DVD action movie.

[Edited 2014-03-13 01:41:26]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: trent900
Posted 2014-03-13 01:39:01 and read 32619 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 147):
The "ground based station" you refer to, would be a PSR (primary surveillance radar) and civilian versions of this are very low range affairs, designed to cover only around 50nm or so around an airport. There may be HUGE areas of countries with no primary surveillance radar coverage.

So considering the PSRs have 50nm range for example, any pilot would be able to stay away from areas that are covered to stay in-detected? The question is if the aircraft had maintained it's cruising FL then there would be more chance of a return to one of the areas PSRs even if the transponder was turned off. So it begs the question, if they flew at a lower altitude without detection where did they go?

D.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: jcxroberts
Posted 2014-03-13 01:40:10 and read 32434 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 137):
I struggle with this one. China is not at all above espionage, cyber warfare, etc.; but this would be INCREDIBLY brazen if it were a government sponsored plan. It would be right up there with Russia's entering of Crimea... They would bring the condemnation of the world down upon themselves. 20 Freescale employees - and the contents of their laptops - might be incredibly valuable, but not enough to take a 777 like this.

I can't beleive that for a moment either ... in any case, good old laptop bag theft is much easier!

It's unlikely but so is everything else. The satellite images China put out as a possible plane crash ring some alarms. They have better images available internally and surely would have known it wasn't plane wreckage. And the images were debunked rather quickly starting on CNN.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 01:42:23 and read 32117 times.

Quoting philask (Reply 155):
Far fetched but I'm also pretty sure they're quite hot on this already

The powers that be would be insane if they don't have fighters in the air 24/7 at this point for at least the immediate future, but with that said...the logistics to get that aircraft here are steep. You're looking at at least one refueling in North Korea or far eastern Russia or China, somehow slipping past Japan and Alaska, just to reach the west coast. The amount of fuel required isn't just commonly available, and the whole deal would feel like a state sponsored activity - and that would be seen as an act of war. Very ugly scenario.

Heading West via, say, Iran - that would be even more difficult and probably require two refuelings.

Not to mention how to keep the pesky engine health system from alerting RR that the aircraft is in flight!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 01:43:39 and read 31993 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 159):
Is there a way for the crew or persons flying to depressurize the cabin to knock the passengers out whilst not being affected?

Reasonably sure you could.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 159):
Could that be done without the oxygen masks coming down?

Reasonably sure you can't prevent the masks. I think the system is self contained.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 159):
Regardless, I've heard that there is only about 5-10 mins of oxygen available for passengers - just enough to get down to a safe altitude.

More like 15 but correct in that it is to have enough time for an emergency descent.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-13 01:45:36 and read 31715 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 152):
then if the plane did fly for 4-5 hours, surely military radar would have picked it up?

Exactly. Can they ask basically all the countries with potential radar coverage to the East and West? I find it very hard to believe that it would've continued on its course flying NE and not be detected. If indeed the plane kept on flying, I would imagine it did turn and flew W towards the Indian Ocean, which if true, then unfortunately I think the chances of finding any debris is very slim.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 153):
The home MH 772 simulator is looking more and more suspicious, possibly.

Yeah, I am thinking that they should do that too. Actually heard on CNN earlier today that they were going to go to his home - is this factual? He seemed like a great person really dedicated to his job. Wonder how long ago he built the 777 simulator? Perhaps they can do some digital forensics on the computer?

Was just chatting to a friend who is traveling in China and he said the rumor there is that they did turn around and the target were the Petronas twin towers, but that they were eventually shot down by the Malaysian military and hence they have been contradicting themselves. But... I find that a bit hard to believe. If the Captain did have a peeve against UMNO, the ruling party since Malaysia's independence, he could have hit a different target...

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: imagoagnitio
Posted 2014-03-13 01:45:52 and read 31758 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 165):

Presuming mainland US is the target as opposed to .................

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-13 01:46:57 and read 31466 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 152):
then if the plane did fly for 4-5 hours, surely military radar would have picked it up?

Yes, however all those military forces are being incredibly tight lipped. China certainly don't want the world knowing their capabilities. Malaysia obviously did as they tracked *something* on both azimuth and range.

There are numerous warships out there with targeting capability so who knows what got tracked where and by whom. There are super sensitive Advanced ESA's (non-rotating radars) on warships and military ground installations - also have about a 250nm range...

Its just a mess. I would be 99% certain somebody somewhere picked up a return...

I have no clue about Diego Garcia's OTH capability... Or any other nation's for that matter. They can theorietically track up to 3000km away... Given OTH capability can be "portable", I wouldn't have any clue (nor would Joe Soap) where they would be deployed.


Hence I have stated all along, information is not being shared.

* In case anybody is wondering about OTH, it stands for "Over The Horizon" (sometimes called BTH / Beyond The Horizon) and is a method of using a specific frequency radio waves in the HighFrequency/ShortWave ranges (the exact frequency can vary at different times of the day due to atmospheric attenuation) to bounce off the ionosphere to follow the curve of the earth. They have super sensitive antennae, however at long ranges the signal return can be over 10miles wide! Whether this is of any help to this search I have no clue. In my opinion anything is better than nothing.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 01:47:28 and read 31729 times.

Here is a link to an article "Police raid house of Malaysia Airlines pilot" - sorry if it has been posted:

http://www.news.com.au/world/police-...pilot/story-fndir2ev-1226853893806

Also, regarding the last words from MH370 - "All right, good night” - Wouldn't a seasoned pilot repeat the call sign?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2014-03-13 01:49:17 and read 31261 times.

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 158):
What do they want an old 777 for?

They would want to stop it flying into Buildings in Shanghai or Beijing.. We would be looking for a smoking hole in the ground.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: dc863
Posted 2014-03-13 01:51:58 and read 30843 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 170):
"All right, good night” - Wouldn't a seasoned pilot repeat the call sign?

Not necessarily.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: BackSeater
Posted 2014-03-13 01:52:38 and read 30655 times.

Can someone help try to pin down the ACARS data path?

I assume that MH uses SITA as SP for ACARS.
Data transmission could be via VHF to ground stations, through the global beam of the Inmarsat4 satellite that covers the region or through an Iriidum LEO satellite.
No matter what path is used, the raw messages will go to one data center, probably a SITA facility in Switzerland (?).
From there, messages are filtered and routed to their specific destination e.g. Derby in the UK for RR engine data.

GPS position may be in the raw message. I don't know. At any rate, if VHF was used, then SITA knows within at most a 300km radius (much smaller at a low altitude) where the airplane was when it transmitted its report.

SITA has many VHF ground stations in Asia and that should always be a first choice before satellite is used.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Coal
Posted 2014-03-13 01:53:21 and read 30846 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 170):
Also, regarding the last words from MH370 - "All right, good night” - Wouldn't a seasoned pilot repeat the call sign?

Not always. I fly UA frequently SIN-HKG and listen to Ch.9 when available. I find that many airlines from many different countries don't always repeat their call sign, even if they should.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 170):

Here is a link to an article "Police raid house of Malaysia Airlines pilot" - sorry if it has been posted:

No mention if they went through the computer data in the simulator.

Cheers
Coal

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 01:53:59 and read 30616 times.

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 168):
Presuming mainland US is the target as opposed to .................

Anything could be the target; the person I was responding to suggested US mainland so I was responding to that. In reality, any country that someone has a grudge against could be a target - and that's not a small list.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-13 01:54:05 and read 30326 times.

Quoting trent900 (Reply 163):
So considering the PSRs have 50nm range for example, any pilot would be able to stay away from areas that are covered to stay in-detected? The question is if the aircraft had maintained it's cruising FL then there would be more chance of a return to one of the areas PSRs even if the transponder was turned off. So it begs the question, if they flew at a lower altitude without detection where did they go?

PSR's detect all targets at all levels - it doesn't matter if its at F390 or F90. What our systems do for me, is when I have a PSR/MSSR correlated target, and its high-level, I can filter it out of my approach sector as it is entirely unnecessary. However, when there is a transponder failure, I still get the upper traffic on my approach screen with just a primary target.

However, they would need to know of *every* PSR installation. I don't think that is likely unless they were *very* busy preparing.

And then that brings me back to my issue of the military installations. That kind of information is not avilable on the web for those countries. Some installations might be found, but I think there is a lot of classified stuff too...

I am just at a loss - and I am adament there is information not being shared.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 01:55:06 and read 30539 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 170):
Also, regarding the last words from MH370 - "All right, good night” - Wouldn't a seasoned pilot repeat the call sign?

Not necessarily. You are not required to keep repeating the call sign as long as you can be sure will be no confusion. If nothing else, this sentence could have been the tail end of the conversation.

Purely as an example with no basis in know facts:
ATC: "Malaysian tree-seven-zero - Cleared direct Ho Chi Minh."
MH370: "Cleared direct Ho Chi Minh - Malaysian tree-seven-zero."
ATC: "Malaysian tree-seven-zero - Contact Ho Chi Minh Center on one-two-five decimal seven-two-five"
MH370: "Ho Chi Minh on one-two-five decimal seven-two-five. All right, good night."

[Edited 2014-03-13 01:56:26]

[Edited 2014-03-13 01:57:43]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: KIAS
Posted 2014-03-13 01:55:39 and read 30705 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 149):
To be honest, that has been my main suspicion for a while now.

If you think about it, it makes sense: Pull circuit breakers to turn off all transmissions from the plane, so you essentially become invisible. And head off where ever you want. Only I suspect either something went wrong and they crashed, or they intentionally ditched/crashed.

My biggest fear is, if the transponder, ACARS, etc were intentionally turned off, the FDR and CVR circuit breakers could also have been pulled. If so, we may never know the exact sequence of event.

The Silkair 737 had it's circuit breakers for the CVR and FDR pulled right after the co-pilot left for the toilet. So, it is not in the realms of fantasy to suggest it!

777-200ER does not have circuit breakers on the flight deck like the 737-36N. To shut off ACARS someone would have to enter the E/E bay via the main deck access panel. That said, we know ACARS was not shut off due to the reports of Engine Health Management snapshots sent via ACARS which were received by Rolls-Royce. Allegedly for several hours after the ATC lost contact.





[Edited 2014-03-13 01:59:42]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-13 01:57:29 and read 30227 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 170):
Also, regarding the last words from MH370 - "All right, good night” - Wouldn't a seasoned pilot repeat the call sign?

If you're the only plane the ATC was talking to at that time, no really, no.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: radone
Posted 2014-03-13 01:58:50 and read 30114 times.

MLE airport is exactly on the 4 hours range circle. It is a tiny (islamic) community with a large airport used to handle big charters by night, so a cover up mission wouldn't have been that hard. It could be reached from the Malakka Strait by flying only over international waters with little radar coverage or third parties surveillance.
MLE could have been not the final destination (already surfaced by now) but the refuelling point for Somalia for example, which is consistent with the "further use" detail from WSJ report

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 01:59:15 and read 29932 times.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 178):

777-200ER does not have circuit breakers on the flight deck like the 737-36N. To shut off ACARS someone would have to enter the E/E bay via the main deck access panel. That said, we know ACARS was not shut off due to the reports of Engine Health Management snapshots sent via ACARS which were received by Rolls-Royce.

where are the circuit breakers for the CVR and the FDR located?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: philask
Posted 2014-03-13 02:02:56 and read 29482 times.

Quoting radone (Reply 180):
MLE airport is exactly on the 4 hours range circle. It is a tiny (islamic) community with a large airport used to handle big charters by night, so a cover up mission wouldn't have been that hard.

Said as someone who knows nothing about the Maldives... seriously, you think nobody would notice at such a busy international airport?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-13 02:03:37 and read 29505 times.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 178):
That said, we know ACARS was not shut off due to the reports of Engine Health Management snapshots sent via ACARS which were received by Rolls-Royce. Allegedly for several hours after the ATC lost contact

Do we have confirmation of this yet?
I know the WSJ is a respected paper, but so far, they are the only source of this information.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-13 02:05:15 and read 29234 times.

Quoting Coal (Reply 167):

Assuming your friend telling truth, question still remains > where is the debris? If it was shot down on course to Petronas Tower then it's obvious that it was shot down where they have already looked for debris? Unless flight went SW of KUL area near Port Dickson where someone already found a body and that area has not been searched yet (may be purposely?)

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: AR385
Posted 2014-03-13 02:07:09 and read 28820 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 176):
I am just at a loss - and I am adament there is information not being shared.

Agreed, but what would be the reason for that?

1) Semi-totalitarian state that really does not know how to be open with media from the entire planet, other than its own?
2) The airliner was shot down by mistake and they are all covering it up?
3) They are not being very forthcoming in recognizing their incompetence (if they are being incompetent)
4) They really have something big to hide

Whenever I wrap my mind about why would anyone not share info. on MH370, I really can´t find a motive.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 177):
MH370: "Ho Chi Minh on one-two-five decimal seven-two-five. All right, good night."

I believe the actual words after "All Right" were "Roger" not "Good Night"

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 02:07:30 and read 28848 times.

Quoting philask (Reply 182):
Quoting radone (Reply 180):
MLE airport is exactly on the 4 hours range circle. It is a tiny (islamic) community with a large airport used to handle big charters by night, so a cover up mission wouldn't have been that hard.

Said as someone who knows nothing about the Maldives... seriously, you think nobody would notice at such a busy international airport?

Indeed.

It would be hard to hide a rogue Twin Otter at Male airport. It has only one runway and takes up the entirety of a tiny, pancake-flat island. This island, I might add, is in plain sight of the capital one kilometer away.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 185):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 177):
MH370: "Ho Chi Minh on one-two-five decimal seven-two-five. All right, good night."

I believe the actual words after "All Right" were "Roger" not "Good Night"

That actually makes more sense. Thx.

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:08:14]

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:08:41]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 02:07:41 and read 28922 times.

Quoting philask (Reply 182):

Said as someone who knows nothing about the Maldives... seriously, you think nobody would notice at such a busy international airport?

also you are forgetting about Diego Garcia. I'll bet you the farm that US forces have radar of coverage of the entire Indian Ocean; probably even more than India itself.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-13 02:08:01 and read 28974 times.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 153):
The US needs to be wary of any incoming UFO from the east or west.

There's at least one stolen plane out there since 2003. They will be looking for such things anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Boeing_727-223_disappearance

Btw., thinking about the 727. If somebody wanted to actually "steal" an airplane for whatever mischievuos purpose, there are so many stored jets out there, in places with more or less security, that it would probably much easier to get one of those than trying to pinch one out of active operations...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: YokoTsuno
Posted 2014-03-13 02:07:11 and read 28672 times.

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 95):
Well, I haven't come across any comments from Malaysia so far... I simply would be interested to hear more about what the local aviation enthusiasts/experts/pilots/etc think - provided that we actually have any members from there!. So, if you are out there, what do you think is going on?

You'd like me to ask. I can at least spot 10 right now .

Pretty sure what they are gonna answer though.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-13 02:08:22 and read 28598 times.

Maybe the two events, a low flying unidentified flying object (locals and fishermen are talking about a plane) over the Strait of Malakka (Kota Baru region) and, at the other side of the Malayasia Penninsula the kiwi oil ridge worker sees a burning aircraft coming down in the Gulf of Thailand/South Chinese Sea region have nothing to do with eachother but if they do what has happened...? Still my feeling: a stealth fighter/drone collided with the 777?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 02:09:34 and read 28610 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 190):
Still my feeling: a stealth fighter/drone collided with the 777?

Where's the wreckage?

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 188):
Btw., thinking about the 727. If somebody wanted to actually "steal" an airplane for whatever mischievuos purpose, there are so many stored jets out there, in places with more or less security, that it would probably much easier to get one of those than trying to pinch one out of active operations...

Quite so. I had the same thought a few threads ago. This seems very hard work just to steal a large plane for some nefarious purpose.

Then again, no one said bad guys had to be rational.

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:10:55]

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:13:59]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: KIAS
Posted 2014-03-13 02:10:21 and read 28255 times.



Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 181):
where are the circuit breakers for the CVR and the FDR located?

Also in the e/e bay.

Quoting garpd (Reply 183):
Do we have confirmation of this yet?
I know the WSJ is a respected paper, but so far, they are the only source of this information.

It is really up to MAS to confirm, the EHM data is their intellectual property. As far as I know 2 snapshot reports were corroborated by multiple sources, but not anything beyond that.

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:12:34]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-13 02:12:53 and read 27882 times.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 192):
Also in the e/e bay.

then maybe there is hope that those weren't shut off.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 02:13:08 and read 28039 times.

random thought:

the reason this engine health reporting news is so delayed in becoming public could be: There was an assumption that the people who took MH370 were not aware that they were actually broadcasting such data, and by sitting on this news, there was hope that the aircraft could be tracked via this data to whatever the final destination was. Once the news became public, it was known that those responsible would disable the system - so it had to stay private for several days.

It's entirely possible that WSJ's leak compromised an active tracking mission - who knows?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: philask
Posted 2014-03-13 02:13:19 and read 27992 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 190):
Still my feeling: a stealth fighter/drone collided with the 777?

Why would a "stealth fighter / drone" be flying at commercial aircraft altitudes and in that flight path? And lets just entertain your theory, where's the wreckage? You think five or six asian countries would collaborate to cover this up?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-13 02:13:51 and read 27958 times.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 192):

Also in the e/e bay.

Then we have a chance that, if the plane is ever found, we might be able to learn what actually happened!


Anyone know what types of FDR and CVR Malaysian have fitted to their 772ER fleet and how long they record data for?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: airbuseric
Posted 2014-03-13 02:14:03 and read 27883 times.

The captain was on his flight simulator at home a lot, on trial missions? If the plane flew towards the Indian Ocean, and e.g. towards Somalia/Yemen, how many hours of flying it needs? 6? Did the captain maybe use the 777 as a glider into some location? We know that an aircraft is a glider (remember the TS A330 to Acores), it can glide for a long long time (did the captain try this on his simulator?)

Just a thought...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: philask
Posted 2014-03-13 02:15:29 and read 27820 times.

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 197):
Did the captain maybe use the 777 as a glider into some location? We know that an aircraft is a glider (remember the TS A330 to Acores), it can glide for a long long time (did the captain try this on his simulator?)


A 230t glider... 777 glide ratio is about 20:1 (best case) so from 35,000 ft that would be about 100 miles. We're assuming it's a lot lower than that (to be under radar).

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:21:33]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-13 02:16:37 and read 27442 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 191):
That is possible but where's the wreckage?

Indeed, where is it? How trustfull is the statement of the kiwi oil ridge worker than? If it is true what he proclaims there must be something in the water, right?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: KIAS
Posted 2014-03-13 02:18:00 and read 27456 times.

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 197):
The captain was on his flight simulator at home a lot, on trial missions? If the plane flew towards the Indian Ocean, and e.g. towards Somalia/Yemen, how many hours of flying it needs? 6? Did the captain maybe use the 777 as a glider into some location? We know that an aircraft is a glider (remember the TS A330 to Acores), it can glide for a long long time (did the captain try this on his simulator?)

A simpler explanation is that he is an aviator, and enjoys building and enjoying simulators. The glider theory seems especially far-fetched.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 02:20:01 and read 26922 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 199):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 191):
That is possible but where's the wreckage?

Indeed, where is it? How trustfull is the statement of the kiwi oil ridge worker than? If it is true what he proclaims there must be something in the water, right?

Or under the water, possibly on the ocean floor...  

Nothing can be ruled out. The Kiwi might have even been encouraged or forced to make up this as to intentionally mislead the investigation...

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:23:52]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2014-03-13 02:21:33 and read 27129 times.

It's possible that the aircraft hasn't crashed but landed in a secret location. Until the wreckage is found, nothing is certain.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: ThunderboltDrgn
Posted 2014-03-13 02:22:47 and read 26760 times.

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 197):
The captain was on his flight simulator at home a lot, on trial missions? If the plane flew towards the Indian Ocean, and e.g. towards Somalia/Yemen, how many hours of flying it needs? 6? Did the captain maybe use the 777 as a glider into some location? We know that an aircraft is a glider (remember the TS A330 to Acores), it can glide for a long long time (did the captain try this on his simulator?)

Just a thought..

at mach .84 it's 7 hours to the Sana'a (El Rahaba Intl)], capital of Yemen;
about the same for Mogadishu, capital of Somalia.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=NAW-LHW...SG=.84&SU=mach&E=240&EV=389&EU=kts

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-13 02:23:25 and read 26736 times.

No, how about this one? It was probably done to see what we would come up with on a.net...

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 201):
Or under the water, possibly on the ocean floor...

Extremely unlikely to have no floating debris left behind...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: kevinkevin
Posted 2014-03-13 02:24:03 and read 26847 times.

Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: MillwallSean
Posted 2014-03-13 02:24:45 and read 26720 times.

This is a development I dint see coming. Baffled. Perplexed.

Have we yet seen the cargo manifest or gotten definite answers for how much fuel that was put onboard?

I I find even the idea that China, or for that sake any other country, has taken the plane ludicrous. Lets, besides the fact that China's government acts rationally, not forget the plane was going to Beijing. They could have taken anything they so wanted at the airport, from cargo to laptops to people. They aren't going to steal a B777 and have its passengers disappear. That just isn't realistic and would involve to many people and to much logistics.

Unfortunately i see greater possibility in one pilot or pilot trained passenger sailing off into the sunset either not wanting to knock on heavens door himself or wanting the world to remember him and his flight and search for it like they have done for Amelia Earhartt. His seconds of fame set to last an eternity.

But with this story, anything can happen.

It also puts the 200 NM northwest of Penang in a possibly more interesting light.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-13 02:25:22 and read 26610 times.

Just a heads up, press conference scheduled to begin in 5 minutes or so, provided no further delay.
http://www.astroawani.com/

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: senliture
Posted 2014-03-13 02:27:17 and read 26209 times.

Quoting ThunderboltDrgn (Reply 203):
at mach .84 it's 7 hours to the Sana'a (El Rahaba Intl)], capital of Yemen;
about the same for Mogadishu, capital of Somalia.

It won't has 7 hours flight distance if it flew low to avoid radar. Engines effeciency are very different at low attitude and they burn a lot more fuel.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2014-03-13 02:27:26 and read 26293 times.

Look. It's as simple as this. Appealing to folks who like high-concept, low-tech attacks.

You steal the plane. You fly it somewhere comfortable. You take care of the passengers/hostages. You tell the world that you have fitted it with nukes and 200 hostages of all nations. You put it back in the air, and fly it somewhere important. Do the authorities of that country shoot it down when it may have only innocents aboard, and no nukes. Or must you assume it has nukes?

A real challenge. That we pay our leaders to decipher.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2014-03-13 02:27:54 and read 26163 times.

Isn't there meant to be a press conference soon?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-13 02:29:07 and read 26068 times.

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 205):
Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.

I cannot write what I am thinking...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-13 02:29:52 and read 26100 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 201):
Nothing can be ruled out. The Kiwi might have even been encouraged or forced to make up this as to intentionally mislead the investigation...

Has this guy been checked?

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:31:33]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-13 02:30:26 and read 25701 times.

As lot of people coming with Drone or Stealth theory..that either crashed with MH370. Okay for a min let's think that's what happened but whose Drone and whose Stealth we talking about? or Malaysian Drone ( I doubt they have Stealth bomber)...and is it the reason why other countries (Barring China, Vietnam) keeping all quiet? Just genuine question, no attempt to hurt anyone.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2014-03-13 02:31:26 and read 25605 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 211):
I cannot write what I am thinking...

Beam me up scotty?

It's perplexing. The wreckage must be somewhere!!!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 02:32:57 and read 25397 times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 210):
Isn't there meant to be a press conference soon?

About to start... Also being shown on ABC News 24 in Australia...

http://english.astroawani.com/videos/live

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-13 02:33:50 and read 25350 times.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 213):
As lot of people coming with Drone or Stealth theory..that either crashed with MH370. Okay for a min let's think that's what happened but whose Drone and whose Stealth we talking about? or Malaysian Drone ( I doubt they have Stealth bomber)...and is it the reason why other countries (Barring China, Vietnam) keeping all quiet? Just genuine question, no attempt to hurt anyone.

When it flew in western direction over the Strait of Malakka (like locals, fishermen and Malaysian radar tell us), it might flew to Diego Garcia?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-13 02:34:35 and read 25006 times.

Quoting senliture (Reply 208):
It won't has 7 hours flight distance if it flew low to avoid radar. Engines effeciency are very different at low attitude and they burn a lot more fuel.

No need to fly low in middle of Indian Ocean.

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 205):
Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.

Is it even possible for pilots to stop the engines from sending data?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: asteriskceo
Posted 2014-03-13 02:35:04 and read 25094 times.

They are claiming that the earlier WSJ claims are false.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 02:35:04 and read 25108 times.

news conference stating that news that the plane flew for 4-5 hours is "inaccurate".

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-13 02:35:18 and read 25191 times.

Just said on the press conference that the reports about the engines sending data for +4hours are incorrect.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-13 02:35:32 and read 25103 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 215):
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 210):
Isn't there meant to be a press conference soon?

About to start... Also being shown on ABC News 24 in Australia...

http://english.astroawani.com/videos/live

For those of us who can't follow it on TV or anything: Would somebody be so kind and post a summary on here? Thanks.

And, please: Could we give the James Bond scenarios a rest for a minute? It's difficult enough to follow this thread already. Tanks as well.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 02:36:00 and read 25328 times.

Confirmation that the reports of the plane flying on for hours based on engine monitoring data are incorrect. Both RR and Boeing confirmed this to MH.

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:38:33]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 02:37:06 and read 24876 times.

the news conference is indicating a high degree of involvement with the NTSB and FAA.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2014-03-13 02:37:25 and read 24800 times.

Is there anything about this story that is correct?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 02:37:47 and read 24815 times.

Reports that homes of pilots searched are not true also...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 02:38:05 and read 24529 times.

also according to news conference - reports that police visited the homes of the pilots is false...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Nav20
Posted 2014-03-13 02:38:24 and read 24994 times.

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 188):
there are so many stored jets out there, in places with more or less security, that it would probably much easier to get one of those than trying to pinch one out of active operations...

Point is, though, JimJupiter, that any such aeroplane would not be fully serviced and would certainly not have fuel in any quantity on board? If you wanted something that could reliably go a long distance, you'd have to grab an 'aircraft in service'?

Interesting new angle here - apparently people telephoning affected relatives are hearing (unanswered) ring tones. Apparently that couldn't happen if said relatives were at the bottom of the sea?

Doesn't mean that they're alive, though............

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/03...ysian-plane-incident-linked-to-911

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: ThunderboltDrgn
Posted 2014-03-13 02:39:09 and read 24823 times.

Quoting senliture (Reply 208):
It won't has 7 hours flight distance if it flew low to avoid radar. Engines effeciency are very different at low attitude and they burn a lot more fuel.

Yes I know.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-13 02:40:10 and read 24684 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 222):
Confirmation that the reports of the planes flying on for hours based on engine monitoring data are wrong. Both RR and Boeing confirmed this to MH.

Good on them for having cleared that up right off the bat at the press conference.

How things change... looks like we're back to the oil rig guy and a hijacking seems far less likely again.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: asteriskceo
Posted 2014-03-13 02:40:22 and read 24596 times.

The spokesman is taking a defensive tone. "Malaysia has nothing to hide."

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: nm2582
Posted 2014-03-13 02:41:12 and read 24698 times.

news conference over. nothing new offered.

edit: they are moving on to the question phase now. my feed froze.

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:41:50]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: mileage
Posted 2014-03-13 02:42:38 and read 24254 times.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 115):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 61):
He has made several tweets about the purpose of whatever happened to the flight being "asset acquisition" of 20 employees of Freescale Semiconductor who were on the plane, i.e., hijack the plane, fly it somewhere, use those 20 to do...something...and then...hmm...

He's either suggesting: some nefarious fellows think Freescale doesn't make microchips but in fact makes superweapons so valuable that one should hijack an entire aircraft to force them into slave labor in a cave in the Tribal Regions...

Or, that Al Qaeda wants to expand into making transistor radios.

He thinks the plane landed in China.

Which reminds that the earliest report was that it landed in China. Then the report was retracted.

Freescale has a lot of classified work with DoD

He's clearly connected if you go through his twitter, but that doesn't make him right.

There would be many easier ways to make such an "acquisition" on the ground.... such as hijacking their taxi/bus!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 9VSIO
Posted 2014-03-13 02:42:47 and read 24260 times.

Interesting that they have shared the raw data from their military radar with selected countries....

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 02:42:49 and read 24421 times.

MAS also said that Malaysia has released radar data that it would not normally release because this investigation is more important than protecting the capabilities of Malaysia in terms of national security (words to that effect).

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-13 02:43:43 and read 24318 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 217):
Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 205):
Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.

Is it even possible for pilots to stop the engines from sending data?

Yes it is. You can pull the breakers in the electronics bay.

Quoting Nav20 (Reply 227):
teresting new angle here - apparently people telephoning affected relatives are hearing (unanswered) ring tones. Apparently that couldn't happen if said relatives were at the bottom of the sea?

This was debunked about three days ago. Due to the nature of cell phone comms, the system will "fake" a ring tone back to the caller so you won't get dead air while you are waiting for the call to connect.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-13 02:44:57 and read 24247 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 224):

Is there anything about this story that is correct?

-Plane vanished. Last ACARS message was 0107 local time. WSJ reports of it flying for hours incorrect. RR statement aligned with this press briefing.
-NTSB & FAA well involved.
-Malaysia has handed over raw military radar data to intl partners (USA/China etc) for help to analyse. They say national security will not be placed above the importance of the missing plane.
-Tomorrow will have a technical capability briefing of the SAR assets

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:46:35]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-13 02:45:33 and read 23975 times.

Back to square one: We know nothing more than a 777 is missing, presumed crashed.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: B747forever
Posted 2014-03-13 02:47:25 and read 23567 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 237):
Back to square one: We know nothing more than a 777 is missing, presumed crashed.

Same thing after every press conference.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 456
Posted 2014-03-13 02:48:39 and read 23354 times.

Much better news conference today... At least the transport minister is more understandable.

Why dont they have such update twice a day to clear up more rumors instead of the (media?) spread of not valid statemetns(ACARS/debris etc).
They only need to keep it to english only imho.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-13 02:50:25 and read 22967 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 238):
Same thing after every press conference.

I personally don't believe it is due to the lack of trying.

And I feel for these guys - English is clearly not their native language, and I imagine that a fair few unintentioal misunderstandings have occurred in the past...

They also stated in the Q&A sessions they have asked neighbours for radar data to aid in tracking the aircraft...

[Edited 2014-03-13 02:57:03]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: KIAS
Posted 2014-03-13 02:56:41 and read 22030 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 217):
Is it even possible for pilots to stop the engines from sending data?

The engine data is sent via ACARS, which could be disabled through catastrophic event or manual intervention. To shut off ACARS manually someone would have to enter the E/E bay via the main deck access panel.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 220):

Just said on the press conference that the reports about the engines sending data for +4hours are incorrect.

Not surprised to hear this!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-13 03:00:14 and read 21497 times.

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 231):
news conference over. nothing new offered.

Although very defensive in tone there were some nuggets:

- The transport and defense minister was adamant that the plane did not fly on for four+ hours, in addition to the fact that the last ACARS data was transmitted at 1:07 local time (per the head of MAS). He said RR and Boeing were in Kuala Lumpur and corroborated that.
- The plane complied with all servicing requirements.
- The homes of the cockpit crew have not been searched.

I was watching on Sky News who had Eric Moody (BA pilot of 747 that suffered four engine failure over Indonesia) who said he believes something is being held back.

Some thoughts:

- If they are clear that the plane did not fly for four+ hours then how do they know? I wish the reporters present would think on their feet and ask such questions when they can - no one did (to my hearing although some was in Malay).
- Per Eric Moody, he said that one of his colleagues suggested an explosive decompression that would have left very small traces, making it very difficult to locate ... is this possible? Consider Pan Am 103, different, but very large pieces of the plane came to earth.
- Why would you not search the homes of the crew, just as a precaution to eliminate any activity on their part?

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:01:19]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: b738flyUIA
Posted 2014-03-13 03:01:29 and read 21269 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 237):
Back to square one: We know nothing more than a 777 is missing, presumed crashed.

True and all more will know when they find the missing plane. I hope to find out more about those pieces they found floating in the water.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: liquidair
Posted 2014-03-13 03:02:03 and read 21312 times.

I still hope the plane landed. Far fetched, unlikely and very Hollywood.

but it would mean the 239 missing might still be alive.... And thats something we'd all like to believe.

we have an expression in Italy..... Hope is always the last to die.

I'm curious to elaborate on what the alleged RR employee said.... About it being an accident. In terms of official use, does it exclusively mean accident, or can it also refer to an incident?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: garpd
Posted 2014-03-13 03:02:49 and read 20993 times.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 240):
I personally don't believe it is due to the lack of trying.

And I feel for these guys

Agreed. These people are surely doing their best in a language clearly not of their own.
And they are perhaps overwhelmed with the astounding pressure from the world's press.

The press are pushy at the best of times. Every one wants to be the first with some sort of new information. They'll pressure anyone into saying something!
They should be held on a leesh and told the back the heck off and let these people try and focus on finding the aircraft.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 9VSIO
Posted 2014-03-13 03:03:05 and read 21036 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 242):
If they are clear that the plane did not fly for four+ hours then how do they know?

I'm sure he said that the engines stopped transmitting at the same time they lost contact, not that the a/c did not continue flying beyond that.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-13 03:03:15 and read 21122 times.

I should say that Eric Moody's comment about something being held back was based on information he received from a Boeing employee seventeen years after his near catastrophe that the US was able to, and was actively, tracking his plane and knew it had turned back ... information not revealed at the time (for probably very obvious reasons). But if the US could do this in 1984 ... what now I wonder!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 03:04:40 and read 20926 times.

I'm still listening to the press conference. Here is what I am hearing.

Asked when the aircraft went missing, the last transmission was at 0107 at the handover from Malaysia ATC to Vietnam ATC - which we know. What I find interesting is that it went missing right at the time of the ATC handover???

Also, MAS just gave a brief statement about their ACARS for those interested: 'ACARS is programmed to be triggered by certain events - eg: an aborted takeoff will trigger ACARS messages.'

Also, MAS said there is a possibility of a turn back based on the military radar, however, the military radar data does not identify what type of plane it was tracking. Malaysia is asking all countries in the area to supply radar data that could help. MAS just said MAS does have full confidence in their radar equipment. The FAA has full confidence in Malaysian radar equipment which has been supplied by the USA and China.

Also, MAS says anything is possible when asked "is it possible for anyone to manually turn of the monitoring system that transmits from the engines?".

I know this has been discussed before but I'm just summarizing what I'm hearing from MAS.

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:07:02]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: theaviator380
Posted 2014-03-13 03:05:08 and read 20729 times.

Do you guys think MAS could be in trouble if they get lawsuit filed against them? not only publicity wise but financially?

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: ThunderboltDrgn
Posted 2014-03-13 03:05:45 and read 20721 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 242):
- If they are clear that the plane did not fly for four+ hours then how do they know?

I think it could be something of misunderstanding and that they merely is saying
that they don't have any evidence of it flying for those 4+ hours.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 9VSIO
Posted 2014-03-13 03:05:51 and read 20654 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 242):
Why would you not search the homes of the crew, just as a precaution to eliminate any activity on their part?

I see the point you're trying to make, but what if the search turns up nothing? Does one start searching the homes of the passengers? Imagine the backlash!

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2014-03-13 03:06:59 and read 20907 times.

Quoting philask (Reply 182):
Said as someone who knows nothing about the Maldives... seriously, you think nobody would notice at such a busy international airport?

Well said. Just because it is an islamic country it is not expected to be party to such a conspiracy. Besides, the area is not an isolated dark territory, it is heavily under surveillance by the Indians.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 03:09:49 and read 20469 times.

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 251):
Quoting slinky09 (Reply 242):
Why would you not search the homes of the crew, just as a precaution to eliminate any activity on their part?

I see the point you're trying to make, but what if the search turns up nothing? Does one start searching the homes of the passengers? Imagine the backlash!

The pax are not the ones sitting at the controls...

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 9VSIO
Posted 2014-03-13 03:10:54 and read 20136 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 253):
The pax are not the ones sitting at the controls...

Neither are hijackers until they get into the cockpit.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: Speedbird128
Posted 2014-03-13 03:12:34 and read 20082 times.

Quoting garpd (Reply 245):
They should be held on a leesh and told the back the heck off and let these people try and focus on finding the aircraft.


And then everybody screams *COVERUP*. They are screwed whatever they do.

I sincerely pray now that its come to light the NTSB/FAA/other agencies are involved, people can stop calling it a circus and the NTSB could do it better.

The number of nations involved here are staggering - just the language barriers must be monumental. I agree with him when he says this type of co-ordination is unprecedented. Add to that militaries are notoriously diffucult and are generally not forthcoming.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 242):
was adamant that the plane did not fly on for four+ hours

I understood it as they were adamant the last communications via ACARS was 0107 and there were no system failures. There is no proof to say it continued further, and collaberation with neighbouring militaries will hopefully yield a radar plot. They were adamant however, that this unidentified blip could not be guaranteed to be MH370.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: KIAS
Posted 2014-03-13 03:11:26 and read 20222 times.

Before hitting the hay, I'd like to throw out an alternative perspective. There seem to be a lot of sensational ideas about hijacking and conspiracy, a stolen plane and even cloaking devices. Sure, we don't know what happened, but the scenarios listed are each of increasing improbability.

Take a look at this:



And also this:



These are the flight paths of UA232 and JAL123, respectively. The United flight was a DC-10 in which the fan disk of the tail mounted engine disintegrated, severing all 3 redundant hydraulic systems and damaging the tail. The Japan Air was a B747 which experienced an explosive decompression when the aft pressure bulkhead ruptured, causing all 4 redundant hydraulic systems to fail.

In both of these instances, communication was *not* severed. However, it is not improbable that some catastrophic event occurred aboard MAS370 which crippled the aircraft and also damaged it's ability to broadcast information.

We are now hearing that reports that the EHM snapshots indicating a flight time of 4 hours after ATC lost contact are not true. However, it is possible that the aircraft continued to fly, crippled, in an erratic flight path after this supposed incident. If the flight path resembled what happened on UA232 or JAL123, it could explain why MAS370 has been hard to locate.

Of course, speculation. Hopefully, we will hear some definitive news soon.

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:17:46]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: AR385
Posted 2014-03-13 03:14:27 and read 19832 times.

At this point, I don´t believe for a second the home of the pilots has not been searched. This would have happened even in the more open Western World by now. The fact they deny this goes to show they are a society, or at least its rulers, that are just not used to being forthcoming to media about what they´ve been investigating. I´m sure this has not affected the actual SAR, but it has made them look incompetent, erroneusly so.

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-13 03:20:55 and read 18844 times.

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 254):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 253):
The pax are not the ones sitting at the controls...

Neither are hijackers until they get into the cockpit.

So, which passengers homes are you going to search? We know that the pilots were in the cockpit... It would be foolish not to search the pilots homes and check into their backgrounds / financial situation in greater depth. They were the ones responsible for the flight...

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:28:33]

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:29:32]

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:30:20]

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: JimJupiter
Posted 2014-03-13 03:22:27 and read 18768 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 257):
fact they deny this

As English is not my native language, I'll now go and look up the word "fact". It seems to pop up erraticly on this site...  

Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-13 03:24:13 and read 20086 times.

Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. Please feel free to continue the discussion in part 19 which is available here:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Thanks and regards,

SA7700


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