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Topic: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-15 19:08:26 and read 47986 times.

Due to length part 27 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 28.

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)


**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline



************************************************************************************************


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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

Pat

[Edited 2014-03-15 19:12:32]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: aftgaffe
Posted 2014-03-15 19:12:19 and read 48086 times.

Quoting BridYYC (Reply 341):
My understanding was the good night message came a short while (12 minutes or something) after ACARS was switched off. Since we know the plane flew for hours after, I would think that any depressurization that might have occurred would have after the final communication. There's no reason I can think of that it would have occurred in that 12(?) minute window.

The reason I was suggesting the depressurization might have occurred / begun before the lass comm with ATC was because there seems to be a consensus that ACARS was turned off 12 minutes before the transponder. Why not turn them off together? One reason might have been that he wanted to begin depressurizing (which ACARS would report, I believe) before he wanted to disappear from secondary radar (which was the point immediately after the last comm with ATC).

Could be other explanations - just airing that one.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 19:15:37 and read 47961 times.

could there be on the plane people not on the manifest that are oh high interest to someone and with a high value?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: hotelbravo
Posted 2014-03-15 19:19:40 and read 47778 times.

If both pilots are disabled (or disable each other) on the flight deck with the cockpit door locked, is there any way for FAs or pax to gain access or would the plane be doomed to run out of fuel?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Snowjob
Posted 2014-03-15 19:19:45 and read 47770 times.

RE: nupogodi (Reply 339) in thread 27:

I sure hope so....since I've had MSFS since 1983 (floppy disk on my Commodore 64) and still play around with my FSX (on a much better system, mind you) 31 years later. So G_d forbid i'm ever in a catastrophic and mysterious aviation event and this post comes back to haunt me.

Should they vigorously pursue every lead and angle? Absolutely. In fact, I want to believe that behind the scenes and out of the public eye they have been doing just that. And, in deference to the Malaysians, it's mostly people here who are making the political connection and not (at least publicly) the Malaysian government. No offence people here.

I guess -- and in all fairness I don't know the true political temperature in Malaysia right now -- that the internal and personal political passions of the pilots become another thing I simply don't want to worry about while flying. How many pilots in our own sphere, on any given day, may be pissed off at Harper or Obama or Brown or Merkel or Hollande? Even on the micro level of federal government involvement in labour disputes?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 19:23:44 and read 47537 times.

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 4):

they are humans and before they become pilots they are also members of the public, so they are affected by politics too

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-15 19:28:53 and read 47163 times.

Quoting hotelbravo (Reply 3):

If both pilots are disabled (or disable each other) on the flight deck with the cockpit door locked, is there any way for FAs or pax to gain access or would the plane be doomed to run out of fuel?

Given time, you might be able to get through the door. It's armored but it's not exactly like a bank vault.

On a plane of that size there would be at least one crash axe in the cabin, plus the fire extinguishers which you can bash with. You could probably scrounge up some tools.



From previous thread:

Nupogodi: I have to say, I'm quite amused at all the people in this thread that think cell phones work in the flight levels. "Why didn't they call anyone?!" Let me thiiiiiiiink.

Answer: Indeed. I would often have difficulty picking up a cell signal at 3000ft in a Cessna 172 at 100 knots while flying over towns in Florida. Contrast with MH370 which was at 35000ft in a 777 (more shielding) at 400knots over the ocean.


fooflyboy: Is [the ELT] accessible from the cabin in any way do you know?

Answer: AFAIK ot would be outside the pressure vessel somewhere behind the after pressure bulkhead so no.


ikrameriak: Flight simulators don't hijack planes. People hijack planes. But you can use a flight sim to plan it...

Answer: Yes. Conversely though, you don't actually need a flight simulator to plan it. An iPad and ForeFlight or equivalent is fine. Or Skyvector.com.


777Jet: But would he be able to work out how to fly without being traced? Things like that... Would he be able to work out the different effects on radar, etc. after turning off the transponder or pulling the breaker in the EE bay?

Answer: No, that would not be possible in MS Flight Simulator. For that matter it probably wouldn't be possible in a full blown full motion sim. To simulate that kind of stuff you probably have to have access to military data, and from different countries to boot. I suppose he could have looked at a map of radar coverage but that only gives you "commercial" and publicly known radar coverage. Air defense radar capabilities tend not to be publicized.

[Edited 2014-03-15 19:31:55]

[Edited 2014-03-15 19:41:54]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 19:29:55 and read 47158 times.

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 4):
How many pilots in our own sphere, on any given day, may be pissed off at Harper or Obama or Brown or Merkel or Hollande?

Our political reality (in Canada, re: Harper) is... a little different, to say the least.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Snowjob
Posted 2014-03-15 19:31:04 and read 47018 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 5):
they are humans and before they become pilots they are also members of the public, so they are affected by politics too

True enough. I suppose my comment is based on (1) no prior incidents (as far as I'm aware) in which a larger political motive against the home country or home government of the pilot was the motive and (2) my personal desire not to have to worry about this in the grand scheme of aviation safety.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 19:31:54 and read 47031 times.

of all we know it could even came back and landed in KUL and no one knows a thing, this is getting reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally fishy

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: passenger8170
Posted 2014-03-15 19:32:09 and read 46900 times.

The cargo angle feels weak to me. Why would any nation or terrorist group want to get on the wrong side of China? Remember, that plane was full of Chinese citizens. What do the hijackers intend to do--take the cargo and send back the passengers? Well, it's been a week and I haven't heard about the passengers being dropped off anywhere.

Except for its own internal terrorist issues, China has pretty much stayed out of the global hunting of terrorists. Why get China involved by kidnapping 150 of its citizens? Plus, although I wouldn't call them allies, China and Iran do business together. China is friends with North Korea. The Norks have helped Iran with its nuclear project. It doesn't make any sense.

Now, if that plane was full of Americans, or Israelis, I could understand. But Chinese? It seems that would be opening a whole new can of worms for whoever took the plane.

Even if it's the Uighurs (or however you spell their name), I'm sure China has spies all over that region of their country--especially considering the recent knife attack, somebody would've heard something by now. The story is too big, there are so many nations involved, lots of countries spending their own cash to finance the search effort, etc. In addition, if we've thought of it on here, I'm sure the Chinese Government has thought of it as well. I'm sure they are mining every informant they have trying to find out if the Uighurs did it. And I think they would've heard something by now.

In fact, bizarrely, the country with the best reason to hijack a plane with Chinese on it right now is Japan due to the disagreement the two countries are having over those islands.

Okay, so some kind of "terrorist" group hijacked the plane or paid one of the pilots to hijack it, the jet eventually landed on land controlled by some country out there. And I gotta believe that that country--Iran, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, etc.--would've known by now and fessed up. Once again, the last thing any of these countries wanna do--whether they had anything to do with it or not--is get on the wrong side of China. It's in any of their best interests to clear their names as quickly as possible.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Tangowhisky
Posted 2014-03-15 19:32:57 and read 46903 times.

Hello all,

I missed it at the last thread as it is now too long, so I am reposting. I have a few questions and some comments. I would really appreciate if some attempts can be made to answer my questions.

Quoting B-HOP (Reply 13):
only he can sign the fuel sheet, if FO put an extra 2 hours worth of fuel, the captain could refuse

What would it take to conceal and falsify the actual amount of fuel the aircraft was fueled with from the airline? Would it be the captain and one other person?

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 66):
We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.

If let's say all passengers died on the plane from deliberate hypoxia (depressurization), but a few cell phones of 239 aboard were never turned off, is it possible that the authorities have picked up the roaming of those phones (assuming the plane is hijacked)?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 79):
The idea of someone using the aircraft as a weapon is rather absurd. If someone is powerful enough to organize a hijack like this surely buying some old jetliner as a fake start up airline shouldn't be too much of a problem.

But the aw and shock of using the same 777 that disappeared magnifies the impact terror. The fact that having a pilot as a conspirator from the get-go, and having the best technology to pull off the final weapon delivery make sense. Any comments?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 120):
If terrorists were behind this they would've most definitely used the plane already for whatever purposes they wanted to use it. Waiting would only increase risks.

Agree. But what if their perfect plan now has holes? The fact that the satellite pings now tell us the airplane flew 7 more hours now changes the dynamics. The terrorists now know that this airplane is being sought for by several countries. Air defense systems are in higher alert. So they have no choicse but to wait. Comments?

Quoting capri (Reply 133):
If it was really a pilot suicide why he couldn't bid for a more favourable and remote route to do so, so he can't be discovered, why choose a congested route, then all these turns and zig zags and such

Agreed

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 192):
It is highly likely the pilot was not even aware of SATCOM pings/keep-alives. This is a low-level detail about how networking works. I think many professionals were surprised to learn this week about SATCOM's constant contact.

And this is why I believe their perfect plan missed one small detail (the SATCOM was still pinging). Does anyone know if there are seatback phones for the pax in this 777 with satellite service? If so, is it a different unit than the one the crew use? If there is such a pax unit, it would be interesting to know if/when it too was turned off.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: davidzill
Posted 2014-03-15 19:34:59 and read 46805 times.

The only thing that makes sense is that it landed somewhere. Pilot suicide makes no sense. Every action seems choreographed, well planned, and probably has people involved that weren't even on the aircraft. Unites States intelligence is hinting that the pilots may have gone rogue. This is definitely not a lone-wolf operation...there was something to be gained by someone. I think the captain's wife needs to be thoroughly interrogated, she will know something if the Captain intended on anything where he wouldn't be coming home anymore. We need to stop the talk on ACARS, transponder, range, etc. Now, good psychological profiling and detective work of the pilots, crew, and passengers will be all that leads to where this aircraft is, and what happened. Billions of dollars of U.S. Naval hardware is combing the seas with the most high tech, classified SONAR, and so far, empty-handed. If we aren't aggressively searching every airports within range, we aren't doing enough. The satellite data has provided us a circle, not a triangulated position, of possible routes that appears to cover an entire hemisphere.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Snowjob
Posted 2014-03-15 19:37:27 and read 46666 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 8):
Our political reality (in Canada, re: Harper) is... a little different, to say the least.

It most certainly is. I would never presume to judge the citizens of a non-Western, non-democratic country and their trials and tribulations and frustrations. I know how lucky we are.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ranold76
Posted 2014-03-15 19:37:41 and read 46656 times.

If you're in Malaysia, being on a planet with 80% water, you don't need to fly 6-7 hours to commit suicide in deep water. You may need to fly 6-7 hours to reach a specific spot....suicide or not.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 19:42:46 and read 46273 times.

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
We need to stop the talk on ACARS, transponder, range, etc

agreed, me too from beginning I thought all these non sense about ACARS and pings and Satcom were a well calculated decoys and the slow process from Malaysian government, and not checking pilots home until a week later, this is more of what we think it is, it will end up a high profile security/ military/espionage thing

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-15 19:43:12 and read 46292 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 10):
of all we know it could even came back and landed in KUL and no one knows a thing, this is getting reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally fishy

It's not like a MH 777 landing at KUL would be strange or make the news...

The only thing I would be prepared to rule out at this stage is a Pam Am 103 type event or structural failure as no wreckage has been found, but then again, it could have been blown up later on in the flight to where ever... All I'm suggesting is that the plane did not break up around the area where the transponder stopped and ATC communication was lost.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: EricR
Posted 2014-03-15 19:43:15 and read 46286 times.

CaliAtenza - a destination such as Iran comes close to the 3,675 mileage quoted by flyingwithfish. In addition, based on what he said, this is one destination where the plane will be difficult for international authorities to locate and Iran would be able to use the "cargo" on the plane to suit their needs.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 19:43:45 and read 46280 times.

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 15):
If you're in Malaysia, being on a planet with 80% water, you don't need to fly 6-7 hours to commit suicide in deep water. You may need to fly 6-7 hours to reach a specific spot....suicide or not.

You might want to if you want to avoid getting intercepted and don't want the wreckage to be found. A grim thought, but explains the flight path assuming they went south.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: fooflyboy
Posted 2014-03-15 19:44:42 and read 46153 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
AFAIK it would be outside the pressure vessel somewhere behind the after pressure bulkhead so no.

So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-15 19:46:58 and read 46008 times.

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
We need to stop the talk on ACARS, transponder, range, etc.

Why?

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
This is definitely not a lone-wolf operation
Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
Pilot suicide makes no sense.
Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
The only thing that makes sense is that it landed somewhere.

None of these suppositions have any evidence to support them.

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 15):

If you're in Malaysia, being on a planet with 80% water, you don't need to fly 6-7 hours to commit suicide in deep water. You may need to fly 6-7 hours to reach a specific spot....suicide or not.

Depends how badly you want the plane to disappear. If you fly 6 hours into the southern Indian Ocean and then ditch, that plane would be very very hard to find.

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 14):

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 8):
Our political reality (in Canada, re: Harper) is... a little different, to say the least.

It most certainly is. I would never presume to judge the citizens of a non-Western, non-democratic country and their trials and tribulations and frustrations. I know how lucky we are.

Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2014-03-15 19:47:05 and read 46018 times.

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 14):
It most certainly is. I would never presume to judge the citizens of a non-Western, non-democratic country and their trials and tribulations and frustrations. I know how lucky we are.

True, but his rant about remodeling his house sure sounds like a typical day as a contractor in Southern California...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 19:47:29 and read 46033 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 16):

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
We need to stop the talk on ACARS, transponder, range, etc

agreed, me too from beginning I thought all these non sense about ACARS and pings and Satcom were a well calculated decoys and the slow process from Malaysian government, and not checking pilots home until a week later, this is more of what we think it is, it will end up a high profile security/ military/espionage thing

After AF447 and MH370, nobody will ever stop talking about ACARS when a flight gets lost in the flight levels. I think that's a good thing.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 19:48:40 and read 45828 times.

where was this plane before actual flight, does it have anything to do with the follow up flight?? its history disappeared from fr24??

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: YVRLTN
Posted 2014-03-15 19:49:01 and read 47473 times.

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
I think the captain's wife needs to be thoroughly interrogated,

I saw in the tweets on the flyingwithfish guys feed he was asked to verify the pilots wife left him a day prior to the flight.

Quoting passenger8170 (Reply 11):
The cargo angle feels weak to me

I would tend to agree, but Im not going to repost what I put at the end of the last thread, but this flyingwithfish guy does seem to have some credibility and he is very much focused on cargo. And it does seem an odd coincidence the x-ray machine was conveniently inop at the time, yet this flight alone leaves with cargo when others didnt. Again, I struggle to believe it myself, but this guy seems to think he has decent enough intel to suppose the plane is in Isfahan Iran right now...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 19:50:00 and read 47396 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.

It's not very democratic when you put the opposition leader in prison for an archaic law with flimsy evidence just to hold on to the power your party has enjoyed for decades... A 1-party system, so to speak... "Democracy" in title alone. But, I digress.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Tapir
Posted 2014-03-15 19:51:44 and read 48255 times.

Earlier report indicated that the last ping was over water. It wasn't clear if they meant by "the plane flew for hours..." or the "plane flew four hours....". The PM statement that the possibility of northern and southern corridor could be flight path from his stimulator laptop. Maybe, they are just guessing. My guess, with due respect to the family members, it probably crashed in far away place in the sea far from Malaysia's jurisdiction.

btw, is it possible to fly to Turkey without radar detection by other countries?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 19:51:46 and read 48836 times.

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 20):
So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...

There have been cases where ELTs don't trigger, or are heavily damage.

It's unlikely, though.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-15 19:52:03 and read 48897 times.

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 20):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
AFAIK it would be outside the pressure vessel somewhere behind the after pressure bulkhead so no.

So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...

Actually no. The range on an ELT transmitter is only 20-30km IIRC so it can very easily be missed, especially if the wrong area is searched (as it was). Seeing as the battery runs out after a day or so, that's that.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2014-03-15 19:52:05 and read 48761 times.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 361):


From Thread 27

It would be even easier than that. Buy an early 777-200ER for scrapping, and scrap it... Whole point of the scrapping is to remove all the high value components for re-use. Not a single person on this planet would look at the important bits being removed with care.

Varig had some for scrap. Heck, AI has 77Ls they don't want.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-15 19:54:24 and read 48627 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 24):

where was this plane before actual flight, does it have anything to do with the follow up flight?? its history disappeared from fr24??

The previous flight was HKG-KUL, and presumably the one before that was the reciprocal.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 26):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.

It's not very democratic when you put the opposition leader in prison for an archaic law with flimsy evidence just to hold on to the power your party has enjoyed for decades... A 1-party system, so to speak... "Democracy" in title alone. But, I digress.

Fair point.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: timothy31388
Posted 2014-03-15 19:55:36 and read 48358 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 26):

Agree with what you said.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2014-03-15 19:56:49 and read 48272 times.

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 20):
So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...

But what's the range? If it's shot down over China, the Chinese would be the ones locating the wreck, disabling the ELTs, cleaning it up as quickly as possible, and also confusing the search with false radar claims, false oil riq claims, false debris field claims, false undersea event claims.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: EricR
Posted 2014-03-15 19:57:03 and read 48501 times.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 25):

but this flyingwithfish guy does seem to have some credibility and he is very much focused on cargo. And it does seem an odd coincidence the x-ray machine was conveniently inop at the time, yet this flight alone leaves with cargo when others didnt.

You are misinterpreting his use of the term "cargo". The cargo he is referring to may not be in the cargo section of the plane, but directly above it.

[Edited 2014-03-15 19:59:43]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2014-03-15 19:57:54 and read 48602 times.

So I'm watching CNN and some of the technical guests that they have on are confusing. Regarding the entrance to the avionics bay on the 777-200, is it only accessible from the cockpit? Or can it be accessed from the cargo hold or the cabin?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Snowjob
Posted 2014-03-15 19:58:10 and read 48045 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.

Did not mean to offend. I suppose my comparison to 'Western Democracies' was made in the context of the apparent issue of the pilot in question.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: jelliesR
Posted 2014-03-15 19:58:39 and read 48370 times.

his wife left him(?), his hope for more representative democracy was literally just ruled out of contention for years, if not decades, he was at the controls of the only thing that could ruin the subsequent days and weeks of the ruling party. It seems so straightforward an idea vs any theories that involve conspiracies of dozens if not hundreds of people..

he flew erratically over Malaysia perhaps hoping to provoke a fatal reaction by the airforce, or perhaps to head for deeper waters. The scenario sounds much more plausible than unknown persons with excellent 777 flight knowledge breaking down cockpit doors with nary a peep from either pilot, flying the plane to a secret base, possibly through many military radar emplacements, in order to steal as yet unknown cargo. From someone who is not willing to say they've lost something valuable.

I know the conspiracy theorists can have endless fun with the scenarios but one day a seat cushion will wash ashore somewhere and show that far from the plane being buried in the desert for its cargo or passengers, it hit the water.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 20:00:22 and read 47949 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 34):

does that mean his wife got something to do with it???

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ranold76
Posted 2014-03-15 20:00:26 and read 47877 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 19):
You might want to if you want to avoid getting intercepted and don't want the wreckage to be found. A grim thought, but explains the flight path assuming they went south.

Not if the water depth is similar at 2hrs from takeoff, than it is at 6hrs etc. That's IF depth was the objective.
Also, the INMARSAT arcs don't account for deviation from the arc before that ping set time period. Hypothetically, MH370 could have went out way into the Indian Ocean and turned back to the closet point on that arc to Malaysia at that ping point....likewise, it could've went up into remote western China.

I've stated what I think is likely possible in the previous thread.

Lastly, if INMARSAT can tell what arc it was on in the last ping, what arc was it on an hour earlier...and an hour earlier before that etc....that would give everyone better picture, imho.

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:05:02]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-15 20:04:19 and read 47637 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 24):
where was this plane before actual flight, does it have anything to do with the follow up flight?? its history disappeared from fr24??

KUL-DPS-KUL-BOM-KUL-DPS-KUL-DAC-KUL-HKG-KUL - - - - - - - - PEK


What about Bangladesh?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: YVRLTN
Posted 2014-03-15 20:06:10 and read 47529 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 34):
You are misinterpreting his use of the term "cargo". The cargo he is referring to May not be on the cargo section of the plane, but directly above it.

I guess I am - please explain   

Anyway, does anyone have any idea who this guy is?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 20:06:11 and read 47249 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 29):
Actually no. The range on an ELT transmitter is only 20-30km IIRC so it can very easily be missed, especially if the wrong area is searched (as it was). Seeing as the battery runs out after a day or so, that's that.

Not true if they aren't using the oldest ELTs in existence even after everyone was told to phase out the older ones for years. Since 2009 the traditional ELTs are all useless and not sat monitored and shouldn't be used/purchased. The 20-30km range is for the homing signal that allows searchers to find it by direction finding. Most units even PLBs (Personal Emergency Locator Beacons) have both 406Mhz + GPS embdedded which are both monitored by sat.

At least in Canada, https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/certification/elt-65.htm

Any 406Mhz ELT will work and be detected by sat and ones with self reported positions will also have GPS locations.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 20:07:58 and read 47362 times.

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 39):
Lastly, if INMARSAT can tell what arc it was on in the last ping, what arc was it on an hour earlier...and an hour earlier before that etc....that give you better picture, imho.

INMARSAT is not a geolocation satellite and the 777 is not equipped with an atomic clock, to my knowledge!  

All of this is back-calculating from what ever little data they know.

No doubt they have calculated the possible positions for every single data point. They have not shared them as of yet. All we know is what they shared for the last data point. And - to be fair - their map is being very generous with how thin that line is. Unless they're working some magic, the *width* of that arc could be fairly huge as well. All they know is "at that time, the aircraft could have been anywhere on these paths".

It's amazing they're able to get that much, to be honest.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 20:08:14 and read 47025 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 40):
KUL-DPS-KUL-BOM-KUL-DPS-KUL-DAC-KUL-HKG-KUL - - - - - - - - PEK

how about flight number itself MH370 is it only KUL-PEK or it starts somewhere???

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 20:14:54 and read 46319 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 43):
INMARSAT is not a geolocation satellite and the 777 is not equipped with an atomic clock, to my knowledge!  

All of this is back-calculating from what ever little data they know.

No doubt they have calculated the possible positions for every single data point. They have not shared them as of yet. All we know is what they shared for the last data point. And - to be fair - their map is being very generous with how thin that line is. Unless they're working some magic, the *width* of that arc could be fairly huge as well. All they know is "at that time, the aircraft could have been anywhere on these paths".

It's amazing they're able to get that much, to be honest.

The search range is between/around those two points technically speaking and I doubt the points themselves are very accurate either. With only one (IOR) or two sats (IOR&POR) determining the position based on network data isn't going to even get close to a GPS or even 406Mhz type of localization. Inmarsat uses GPS normally if there is a problem and if all you have is the modem network registration keep alive packets (which usually just say keep-alive + a response from the network saying ok)

The line shown is the signal map of the IOR sat not the actual path they think it is on. They are likely using signal strength measures which put it anywhere along/around that line or falsely along the line if banked, weather, ionosphere, ...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: difrano789
Posted 2014-03-15 20:19:02 and read 45997 times.

Just to make clear of something, cell phones doesnt work at high altitudes because cell towers are designed for horizontal spread not vertical, its a waste of energy to send waves where nobody uses them. You can still catch some signal at 10.000 ft, but for sure not at FL300. Ussually when people use cellphones to call on incidents it is way bellow 30.000 ft.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: canoecarrier
Posted 2014-03-15 20:19:41 and read 46114 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):

I don't know the culture at Malaysian but even if all the pax were asleep the FAs presumably weren't. Would it be out of the ordinary for the cockpit crew to not talk to the FAs for 3-4 hours? You'd think the cabin crew would think something wasn't quite right enough to solicit help from the pax. Or, maybe not in this case if it flew for hours after the last handoff.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: undertheradar
Posted 2014-03-15 20:22:47 and read 45590 times.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 41):

'cargo' could be interpreted as the 'whole physical aircraft and ALL its contents..humans included..

and whoever this twit (oops tweet) guy is.....I hope they sleep well each night..

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: EricR
Posted 2014-03-15 20:24:53 and read 45468 times.

I would read his tweets and draw your own conclusion.

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:26:47]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 20:24:54 and read 45704 times.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 41):
Anyway, does anyone have any idea who this guy is?

His twitter page identifies him as follows:

Flying With Fish
@flyingwithfish
Steven Frischling-Travel Social Media Consultant; Aviation Security Expert; TweetASuite's Creator; Corporate Photog; Host of #TNI Twitter's Original Travel Chat
Live: GON - Work: The World · flyingwithfish.com

Apparently he has a history of breaking news from high level confidential sources, and his computers were raided by government officials some years ago in an attempt to identify his sources.

That suggests his connections are sound.

[Edited for spelling]

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:27:16]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 20:25:02 and read 45288 times.

Quoting difrano789 (Reply 46):
Just to make clear of something, cell phones doesnt work at high altitudes because cell towers are designed for horizontal spread not vertical, its a waste of energy to send waves where nobody uses them.

I think it also has to do with speed. Even if it COULD get signal up there, a flight at cruise speed would require the phone be passing off the signal constantly to the next tower.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 20:25:18 and read 45285 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):

CaliAtenza - a destination such as Iran comes close to the 3,675 mileage quoted by flyingwithfish. In addition, based on what he said, this is one destination where the plane will be difficult for international authorities to locate and Iran would be able to use the "cargo" on the plane to suit their needs.

if its Iran, its probably a faction that is against Rahani and the moves to open up to the West.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-15 20:25:45 and read 45111 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 44):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 40):
KUL-DPS-KUL-BOM-KUL-DPS-KUL-DAC-KUL-HKG-KUL - - - - - - - - PEK

how about flight number itself MH370 is it only KUL-PEK or it starts somewhere???

I believe it was only for KUL-PEK. The return was 371. Both flight numbers were retired out of respect on 14 March and IIRC are now 318 / 319.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 20:27:40 and read 44837 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 45):
The line shown is the signal map of the IOR sat not the actual path they think it is on. They are likely using signal strength measures which put it anywhere along/around that line or falsely along the line if banked, weather, ionosphere, ...

Yup, that's what I said. It's not a path, it's more like a ... region of probability? For any one ping that they receive, they can calculate an approximate circle of unknown-to-us width on the surface of the earth. Using known information like range with fuel on board, last known position, etc they can throw away parts of that circle and leave you with two nice fat arcs across the map. All that means is that at the point in time that that ping was sent, the aircraft could have been anywhere within those arcs.

I am sure they could tighten it up a bit better with some more research, but under the circumstances, it's not bad considering this technology was never designed for this purpose.

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:29:00]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 20:32:34 and read 44204 times.

Quoting difrano789 (Reply 46):

Just to make clear of something, cell phones doesnt work at high altitudes because cell towers are designed for horizontal spread not vertical, its a waste of energy to send waves where nobody uses them. You can still catch some signal at 10.000 ft, but for sure not at FL300. Ussually when people use cellphones to call on incidents it is way bellow 30.000 ft.

Cellphone calls probably won't work but random text messages, network registrations may occur especially if your below 30,000 ft and in a area of good continuous coverage. With 2G coverage and hi-power network search attempts just a few phones have a good chance of getting/sending text messages and being recognized by the network. (Maintaining a call is another thing as you will be moving between towers and have very poor signal quality)

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/14/us...e-issue-cell-phone-use-planes.html

The use of micro-cell's lets cellphones stop searching for ground towers if they can register to a good and nearby (onplane) station but from what I understand the MH370 flight doesn't have micro-cell support.

Also coverage in the US is pretty poor in some areas and you will need good coverage and a robust network (asia's cellphone network) to have more of a chance of registering.

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:33:50]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-15 20:32:39 and read 44289 times.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 35):
So I'm watching CNN and some of the technical guests that they have on are confusing. Regarding the entrance to the avionics bay on the 777-200, is it only accessible from the cockpit? Or can it be accessed from the cargo hold or the cabin?

AFAIK the avionics bay is not directly accessible from the cockpit. You have to exit the cockpit and get at it from the floor behind the cockpit. From "the cabin" I suppose but I think it is more like the entrance and corridor areas behind the cockpit, not where the pax seats are.

AFAIK the cargo holds are not accessible from other parts of the airplane.

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 36):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.

Did not mean to offend. I suppose my comparison to 'Western Democracies' was made in the context of the apparent issue of the pilot in question.

No worries, and I will agree that Malaysia isn't a "western democracy".

Quoting tomlee (Reply 42):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 29):
Actually no. The range on an ELT transmitter is only 20-30km IIRC so it can very easily be missed, especially if the wrong area is searched (as it was). Seeing as the battery runs out after a day or so, that's that.

Not true if they aren't using the oldest ELTs in existence even after everyone was told to phase out the older ones for years. Since 2009 the traditional ELTs are all useless and not sat monitored and shouldn't be used/purchased. The 20-30km range is for the homing signal that allows searchers to find it by direction finding. Most units even PLBs (Personal Emergency Locator Beacons) have both 406Mhz + GPS embdedded which are both monitored by sat.

At least in Canada, https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/certification/elt-65.htm

Any 406Mhz ELT will work and be detected by sat and ones with self reported positions will also have GPS locations.


Thank you for correcting and expanding.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 47):
I don't know the culture at Malaysian but even if all the pax were asleep the FAs presumably weren't. Would it be out of the ordinary for the cockpit crew to not talk to the FAs for 3-4 hours? You'd think the cabin crew would think something wasn't quite right enough to solicit help from the pax. Or, maybe not in this case if it flew for hours after the last handoff.

Agreed.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 20:32:53 and read 44482 times.

after reading his tweets, I think the outcome cld be very sickening of what he means by liabilities and collaterals eliminated, this is worse than crash landed or ditched in water, the agony to go through that is frightening

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: passenger8170
Posted 2014-03-15 20:33:22 and read 44346 times.

See, the problem I have with the cargo angle is this: If the pilot was involved, how would he know what the jet was carrying? Whether Pakistan/Iran/etc. etc. etc. were interested in what was under the floor or above the floor, how would they just happen to find a pilot who would be willing to go along with their plans who just happen to be carrying what they wanted on that particular flight? Or did a work scheduler at Malaysia Airlines conspire to put the pilot on that flight for that purpose?

And then there's the non-working x-ray machine, so I guess some x-ray tech was in on the conspiracy as well. As well as the people who loaded the plane knowing the cargo wasn't scanned. Along with the person who was keeping track of each pallet . . . but somehow left one ULD info blank. Then how about the person who booked the flight for the people that those countries might've wanted, the travel agent put those people on a plane with the exact right pilot at exactly the right time. Oh, and we can't forget the 4 radar operators that ignored the blip going across their screens. Along with all the other operators in all those other countries.

It gets a little much after a while, doesn't it?

Even if one of those countries scared the pilot with the threat of them harming his family, he was a man of means and would've had the power to get protection. Or, if it were the opposite case, he went to those countries and offered to help them out, I gotta think their first response would be: You wanna do what? I mean, what did the pilot do: Look at his passenger and/or cargo manifest months in advance, realize how much those countries would enjoy getting the people/stuff, and get a brilliant idea of flying to Iran or Pakistan? I've seen Rube Goldberg machines that were less complicated.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: koruman
Posted 2014-03-15 20:33:52 and read 44334 times.

Quoting passenger8170 (Reply 11):
Now, if that plane was full of Americans, or Israelis, I could understand. But Chinese? It seems that would be opening a whole new can of worms for whoever took the plane.

Even if it's the Uighurs (or however you spell their name), I'm sure China has spies all over that region of their country--especially considering the recent knife attack, somebody would've heard something by now. I'm sure they are mining every informant they have trying to find out if the Uighurs did it. And I think they would've heard something by now.

In fact, bizarrely, the country with the best reason to hijack a plane with Chinese on it right now is Japan due to the disagreement the two countries are having over those islands

I think you have completely misunderstood how international politics - and terrorism - work.

The government of Japan is not going to seize a Malaysian aircraft by force to teach China a lesson by secretly killing 100 of its nationals. It's beyond absurd.

But throughout history, as I wrote two threads ago, the following motivations have led separatist groups to launch terrorist missions against their adversary:

1. To make the adversary pay such a heavy price for occupying the disputed territory that they decide that it is no longer worth it. OR

2. To take passengers or material as hostages and to negotiate the release of imprisoned terrorists in return for the hostages. OR

3. To get public attention for their cause and their grievance, to try to force the adversary to negotiate under international pressure.

I don't think that anyone seriously suggests that the Uighurs have seized the aircraft and hidden it from the Chinese, who still don't even know that they did it.

On the contrary, the hypothesis of Boeing Vista and others is that Uighur separatists seized the plane and turned back over Malaysia and when they neared the alleged Chinese base on Burma's Great Coco Island they revealed themselves - and their hostages - to the Chinese and sought permission to fly to Xinjiang either to negotiate the release of imprisoned Uighurs or some other demands.

At that point there are two sub-hypotheses.

Both assume that the Chinese had a Margaret Thatcher-style "no deals with terrorists" position.

In one theory, the Chinese simply decided to shoot the aircraft down, and direct the Search and Rescue attempt thousands of kilometers away to the Gulf of Thailand.

The second theory is that China set the terrorists a trap, bringing them in to land at a remote southwest Chinese air base and then launching a disastrous assault on the aircraft, causing mass casualties and leading the Chinese to decide to cover up what they had done and destroy any surviving evidence.

In these hypotheses the terrorism was undertaken by the Uighurs, but the Chinese used excessive and premature force and then realised that they would suffer a global PR disaster unless they erased every trace of their actions.

These are simple theories but eminently possible. The Uighurs are desperate and do resort to terrorism. The Chinese government treats dissent and resistance with an iron fist and uses secrecy and censorship whenever it chooses to.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: EricR
Posted 2014-03-15 20:33:53 and read 44226 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 57):

Yeah, that is why I did not post it here......

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 20:35:33 and read 44057 times.

So lets say it turns out to be Iran?; what then...China and the US team up to initiate regime change?!? Lets hope those passengers (flying with fish refers to them as "collateral") are still alive.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: jcxroberts
Posted 2014-03-15 20:35:38 and read 44199 times.

Do we have confirmation his wife left him ? Because that is a huge 'tell' and also a possible cause. I think it's a rumor.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: undertheradar
Posted 2014-03-15 20:37:50 and read 43813 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 50):

based on all that ....I really hope FWF is sharing info with SAR...because it seems FWF knows more than SAR do and FWF isn't/hasn't shared info....FWF AND ALL ITS CONNECTIONS HAS BLOOD ON ITS HANDS

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Burchfiel
Posted 2014-03-15 20:38:48 and read 43505 times.

I just pray that everyone on board is still alive, and hopefully free.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-15 20:38:50 and read 44003 times.

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 4):
RE: nupogodi (Reply 339) in thread 27:

I sure hope so....since I've had MSFS since 1983 (floppy disk on my Commodore 64) and still play around with my FSX (on a much better system, mind you) 31 years later. So G_d forbid i'm ever in a catastrophic and mysterious aviation event and this post comes back to haunt me.

OMFG! I've been playing FS since 1990, I go on online flying as pilot and ATC, I simulate aircraft intercept online as pilot and as ATC (which could mean mission ground controller for an aircraft to catch up with another), even done it on identical aircraft intercepting each other. I also find dealing with the FMC a doddle... and have 777 Flight Crew Operating Manuals and Performance Planning Manuals for RR powered 777-200ER, and I also have the Maintenance Training Manual for Systems used to train crew and engineering guys on 777, where which box controlling TCAS, transponders, etc are... even where the satcom control boxes are, etc. I used to teach people to fly on FS to a proficient level (some for pilot school entrance exams), I also received navigator training (a dying trade these days if not combined with being a pilot)...

I also am experienced in dealing with satellite communications especially portable satcom, and on how to use portable satcom in aircraft in "emergencies" etc...

I wonder if that does make ME a suspect?   
Now, if I am on that flight, does that make ME a suspect?   

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
fooflyboy: Is [the ELT] accessible from the cabin in any way do you know?

Answer: AFAIK ot would be outside the pressure vessel somewhere behind the after pressure bulkhead so no.

There are portable ELTs in the cabin for the cabin crew to carry, and there are those in the liferaft (if you want to deploy one inside and then figure out how to take it out of the liferaft.   

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 20:40:17 and read 44046 times.

Quoting undertheradar (Reply 63):
ased on all that ....I really hope FWF is sharing info with SAR...because it seems FWF knows more than SAR do and FWF isn't/hasn't shared info....FWF AND ALL ITS CONNECTIONS HAS BLOOD ON ITS HANDS

he just tweeted again:

Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 1m
DHS source says “It is unlikely #MH370 headed south and its exact direction of travel remains unknown to the RMAF. We’re looking elsewhere.”

He also has been saying its been a state actor who has been backing this the entire time.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 20:40:56 and read 43728 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 65):
I wonder if that does make ME a suspect?   
Now, if I am on that flight, does that make ME a suspect?   

You've basically just admitted to hijacking this aircraft, you terrorist...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 20:41:12 and read 43394 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 54):
Yup, that's what I said. It's not a path, it's more like a ... region of probability? For any one ping that they receive, they can calculate an approximate circle of unknown-to-us width on the surface of the earth. Using known information like range with fuel on board, last known position, etc they can throw away parts of that circle and leave you with two nice fat arcs across the map. All that means is that at the point in time that that ping was sent, the aircraft could have been anywhere within those arcs.

I am sure they could tighten it up a bit better with some more research, but under the circumstances, it's not bad considering this technology was never designed for this purpose.

Of course one of the only problems is without some secondary tracking evidence to narrow it down (cellphone registrations, other primary radar tracks) the search area in those fat arcs is extremely huge it isn't like the end points are most likely positions and it could be anywhere inside that fat arc if you just relied on the sat estimate. (So while quite amazing they even manage to get a position out I don't think people should view them as flightpaths or anything other than region of possible location)

They should mandate that automatic ELT's self test every hour or so when they have power from the vehicle and more often if power is lost. (Not sure if the network could handle that though)

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-15 20:41:30 and read 43966 times.

Flying fish guy on Twitter seems to be on the money


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Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: B2707SST
Posted 2014-03-15 20:42:33 and read 43613 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 54):
Yup, that's what I said. It's not a path, it's more like a ... region of probability? For any one ping that they receive, they can calculate an approximate circle of unknown-to-us width on the surface of the earth. Using known information like range with fuel on board, last known position, etc they can throw away parts of that circle and leave you with two nice fat arcs across the map. All that means is that at the point in time that that ping was sent, the aircraft could have been anywhere within those arcs.

I am sure they could tighten it up a bit better with some more research, but under the circumstances, it's not bad considering this technology was never designed for this purpose.

Agreed. Just to refresh everyone's memory, here are the red position arcs:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Biy_KVPCcAA5wLF.jpg:large

Remember, these arcs are NOT flight paths. They indicate that when the last SATCOM ping was sent, the aircraft was somewhere on these arcs, subject to some level of estimation error, at that instant in time. This tells us nothing about its course.

The length of the arcs depends on the fact that the SATCOM pings were only picked up by ONE satellite, InMarSat's Indian Ocean receiver (IOR).

http://www.inmarsat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/I-3-satellite-coverage-November-2013.jpg

InMarSat must have used signal travel time from the aircraft to/from that satellite to estimate its distance and create the arcs (in reality a complete circle as shown on SoCalGeo's invaluable maps).

Any further west along one of the arcs and the AOR-E satellite would have detected the ping too, and we'd be able to resolve the aircraft's position into one of two possible points rather than an arc. Ditto for a position further east, where the POR bird would have picked it up.

Thus, the aircraft landing in Iran is not possible unless the SATCOM pings were either shut down while the aircraft was still flying (e.g. the infamous E/E bay breaker theory) or there is such a long interval between pings that the aircraft could travel from a location on the arcs to Iran before the next scheduled ping.

-B2707SST

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:47:54]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Lindenwold
Posted 2014-03-15 20:43:06 and read 43400 times.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 62):

Huh? He gets most if not all of his info from DHS.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 20:43:41 and read 43549 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 69):
Flying fish guy on Twitter seems to be on the money

DHS source says “It is unlikely #MH370 headed south and its exact direction of travel remains unknown to the RMAF. We’re looking elsewhere.”
— Flying With Fish (@flyingwithfish) March 16, 2014

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@mindoca I think the US Gov’t has an idea of where #MH370 is given that DHS told it flew about 3,675 miles on Thursday.
— Flying With Fish (@flyingwithfish) March 16, 2014

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god i hope the good guys are ready to rescue the passengers if they are still alive. The fact that DHS has the exact mileage number..makes me think that some kind of rescue operation is ready to roll....

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: EricR
Posted 2014-03-15 20:43:51 and read 43459 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 61):


So lets say it turns out to be Iran?; what then...China and the US team up to initiate regime change?!? Lets hope those passengers (flying with fish refers to them as "collateral") are still alive.

Well, according to him, some will still be alive.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 20:45:43 and read 43070 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 73):
Well, according to him, some will still be alive.

i hope to God they will be. In fact i hope ALL will be alive...not just some.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-15 20:46:17 and read 43102 times.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 62):
Do we have confirmation his wife left him ? Because that is a huge 'tell' and also a possible cause. I think it's a rumor.

I agree. Probably a rumor but if true, that might have been what caused the snap... The Anwar trial hours earlier and then the wife leaving... If she left because of his level of political engagement that would even add more fuel to the fire...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 20:47:41 and read 42940 times.

how about US knew in advance what wld happen and were already on board and rescued it and took it to Guam????? doeas Guam falls in 7.5 hrs flight?

just a wild 2cents shot

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 20:48:24 and read 42711 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 65):
I wonder if that does make ME a suspect?   
Now, if I am on that flight, does that make ME a suspect?   

I know what you are saying. And I too learned a lot from MSFS. And you are one of the few people who I respect on this forum. But yes, IF there were circumstances where God forbid a plane you were flying went down AND probable cause was there to assume you [i]might[i] have took it down, then yes, your Flight Simulator becomes relevant.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 69):
I think the US Gov’t has an idea of where #MH370 is given that DHS told it flew about 3,675 miles on Thursday.

Ok socalgeo, put a 2,735nm circle around IGREX and let's see what that looks like

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 20:50:27 and read 42445 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 72):
The fact that DHS has the exact mileage number..makes me think that some kind of rescue operation is ready to roll....

I didn't think of that, but IF that mileage number is accurate, then I bet you are right.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 20:52:33 and read 42080 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 59):
These are simple theories but eminently possible. The Uighurs are desperate and do resort to terrorism. The Chinese government treats dissent and resistance with an iron fist and uses secrecy and censorship whenever it chooses to.

Not meaning to put words in your mouth, but I think you mean to say these are simply theories, because they are anything but simple. They are in fact among the most dizzyingly complex explanations among a field of several more straight-forward ones.

Since at this point we have such sparse data, the complexity of a theory (or its inverse, simplicity) is I think a reasonable metric by which to rank it in terms of probability.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: undertheradar
Posted 2014-03-15 20:53:09 and read 42195 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 66):

FWF 'plays' with us and our gullibility....I wish I could find out who FWF REALLY IS...#immadashell

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-15 20:53:39 and read 42244 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 69):
Flying fish guy on Twitter seems to be on the money

DHS source says “It is unlikely #MH370 headed south and its exact direction of travel remains unknown to the RMAF. We’re looking elsewhere.”
— Flying With Fish (@flyingwithfish) March 16, 2014


async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">>

@mindoca I think the US Gov’t has an idea of where #MH370 is given that DHS told it flew about 3,675 miles on Thursday.
— Flying With Fish (@flyingwithfish) March 16, 2014


async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">>

About 3,675 miles? 3,675 is a pretty precise number...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 20:55:23 and read 42146 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 78):
I didn't think of that, but IF that mileage number is accurate, then I bet you are right.

lets hope its SEAL Team 6....or Delta Force. Problem is, if the country is Iran, then oh boy how do we get the people out without the Iranians ever knowing?...or maybe its one Iranian faction against the other. Lots of stuff to speculate on...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 20:55:33 and read 41882 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 51):
I think it also has to do with speed. Even if it COULD get signal up there, a flight at cruise speed would require the phone be passing off the signal constantly to the next tower.

Also not true, the phone gets to pick what tower to talk to or the network can help as well (Cellphone's rarely gets "confused" as they have to handle all manner of adverse conditions including seeing multiple towers at once). In a crowded city it can also see multiple towers at once and many different technologies as well. The phone can choose the best tower to use and switch to another tower if it loses the first one. Even the network can predict which tower(s) your heading towards and prepare for the handoff (depending on the tech). Cellphone's just don't work well in the air because the signal strength is weaker due to the distance and high angle but in areas of good coverage your chances are better. (You can also transition even between technologies 2G, 3G, ~4G stuff as required without interrupting a call let alone a text message which only needs a moment to work)

In the US/Canada the only reason we lose signal so often is because there are not enough towers to cover the area and when flying there are many areas with simply no towers at all. In asia it is far different (Depending on the country) and cellphone coverage is more likely than land line phone and even power in some cases (The cell sites have their own permanent use generators).

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 20:56:51 and read 41681 times.

but the question that came up now, who wanted the cargo??? and the 2nd question since DHS knew a lot from the beginning so there is another party that wants to prevent the first one from getting hands on it, well what could have happened then?, were they both on board????? this will get more interesting????

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 20:58:21 and read 41580 times.

I am sure socalgeo will do a better job, but here is a map. Assuming they made it to IGREX, that left 2,735nm which would mean it is somewhere along this circumference:



This of course assumed a direct routing after IGREX, which probably isn't accurate. But it does give a sense.

[Edited 2014-03-15 21:00:28]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: TheWipp
Posted 2014-03-15 20:58:57 and read 41795 times.

The flyingfish guy is referring to stories like this regarding the "Cargo":

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/malaysia-ai...emiconductor-top-employees-1440097


Another topic on Twitter today was a story about The pilot's family moving out of house a day before the flight, based on some Chinese News.

Can be found here via google:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2507796/pg1

There's also a link to the story from The Mirror UK. To me it sounds more like they have 2 houses and live temorarily in one of each.


...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 20:59:11 and read 41602 times.

Quoting undertheradar (Reply 80):
FWF 'plays' with us and our gullibility....I wish I could find out who FWF REALLY IS...

I don't have the sense that he is playing with anyone.

His tweets have been following a consistent line on MH370 since he started.

He has also emphasised repeatedly that he is passing on intelligence he is receiving, not making it up himself.

So far, this seems credible as official reports have emerged that have been consistent with his postings, but well after he has posted the information.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:00:41 and read 41509 times.

This is why he says IFN (Isfahan)

Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 2m
@mindoca @jn_moore @polaris01usa My determination for IFN is known distance, runway, infrastructure to support aircraft arrival, etc

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: phantomx18
Posted 2014-03-15 21:02:11 and read 41163 times.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 75):

Has anyone postulated that maybe the pilot was gay, and enraged by the events with the sodomy verdict, and possibly coming out to his wife (or having his wife find out) and then leaving him, lead to this hijacking. . .either with intentions of suicide, asylum seeking (but it wen't wrong and passengers breached the cockpit after many hours), or to crash and make political statement, etc.?

Everyone is saying that he was politically fanatical, but what if it went deeper than that, and had to do with his sexuality as well? That would make it more "personal", and possibly lead to more of a "breaking point".

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:02:27 and read 41357 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 88):
So far, this seems credible as official reports have emerged that have been consistent with his postings, but well after he has posted the information.

I can't wait for the breaking news on CNN that the plane has been found in Iran...because surely that has to be the next thing to happen, if we are to go by his timeline.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-15 21:02:39 and read 41147 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 88):
Quoting undertheradar (Reply 80):
FWF 'plays' with us and our gullibility....I wish I could find out who FWF REALLY IS...

I don't have the sense that he is playing with anyone.

His tweets have been following a consistent line on MH370 since he started.

He has also emphasised repeatedly that he is passing on intelligence he is receiving, not making it up himself.

So far, this seems credible as official reports have emerged that have been consistent with his postings, but well after he has posted the information.

   Agree, all his tweets have been consistent with news that comes out well after.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: dreamflight767
Posted 2014-03-15 21:03:34 and read 41068 times.

As of now, we are speculating that whomever was in control of the aircraft was trying to "hide". But, what if the opposite is true? What if the actions (disable comms., altitude and heading changes, fly over populated areas, etc.) of the person(s) in control of the aircraft were an attempt to provoke an attack by the government against MH370.

How would the world react/view the Malaysian Government if they shot down a B777 with 200+ citizens from around the world (especially Chinese) on board?

Especially if there was never any solid (not squawking 7500, no unusual comms. from the crew, etc.) evidence to prove the aircraft was hijacked in the first place.

When the Government bodies didn't react as those in control of the aircraft thought the Government might (i.e. scramble), they just flew the airplane until fuel starvation.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 21:04:00 and read 41010 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 86):
I am sure socalgeo will do a better job, but here is a map. Assuming they made it to IGREX, that left 2,735nm which would mean it is somewhere along this circumference:

This of course assumed a direct routing after IGREX, which probably isn't accurate. But it does give a sense.

Not sure I understand the value of this. Has the idea of it being somewhere along one of the arcs at 0811h has been abandoned?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:05:12 and read 41204 times.

Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 30s
@polaris01usa @mindoca @jn_moore Since Monday DHS & NTSB have told me they have no evidence it crashed, but just the opposite

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: YVRLTN
Posted 2014-03-15 21:06:16 and read 40679 times.

Quoting passenger8170 (Reply 58):
It gets a little much after a while, doesn't it?

It does - the only thing that would make it work - and I dont agree that it does FWIW - is if the pilots were NOT in on the game and this was done by pax who entered the cockpit and made the crew do things or else. IF - and again I dont believe it did - it did go to Iran, then there are two obvious suspects, the Iranians on board with false passports.

If the 'actual' cargo (and I think that is what our twitter friend is referring to) is that critical, the consignee is likely the Chinese government and they will make it go on that flight and not sit around, regardless of any inop x-ray machine and their chaperons (the company staff). Now I struggle to believe a state, even Iran, would go to these lengths, but a well funded militant group like Hezbollah may and if they have intelligence about the cargo, they will probably know too the careful arrangements made by the owner for its movement. And they wont care about collateral damage either.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 65):
I wonder if that does make ME a suspect?

Sure would  BTW, do you know our twitter friend? Just trying to get a feel for his credibility as he does seem to be on the money, but the Iran thing is pushing credibility too far IMO.

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 62):

Do we have confirmation his wife left him ? Because that is a huge 'tell' and also a possible cause. I think it's a rumor.

Only by twitter guy AFAIK, but would not be a surprise if its something like this - far more likely than top secret cargoes spirited to Iran!!!!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 21:06:26 and read 40491 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 84):
Also not true, the phone gets to pick what tower to talk to or the network can help as well (Cellphone's rarely gets "confused" as they have to handle all manner of adverse conditions including seeing multiple towers at once). In a crowded city it can also see multiple towers at once and many different technologies as well. The phone can choose the best tower to use and switch to another tower if it loses the first one. Even the network can predict which tower(s) your heading towards and prepare for the handoff (depending on the tech). Cellphone's just don't work well in the air because the signal strength is weaker due to the distance and high angle but in areas of good coverage your chances are better. (You can also transition even between technologies 2G, 3G, ~4G stuff as required without interrupting a call let alone a text message which only needs a moment to work)

Talking to too many towers at once does actually pose a problem, but assuming you had good signal strength and the network was robust enough to switch you from tower to tower gracefully, speed still causes a very practical problem: the multiplexing. GSM works reliably only up to speeds of about 200m/h, because of time-division multiplexing. Past that speed, by the time you get your cue to go and respond, you've already missed your time slot! Now, of course, this changes when you're high in the air, since straight-line distance between you and the tower isn't changing at Mach 0.84 even though your horizontal distance is, but it is a contributing factor.

High speeds + low signal = good luck making a successful handshake, let alone transmission.

I've never seen any kind of usable signal above ~6000ft even above dense areas with robust networks :/ I don't know.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2014-03-15 21:07:00 and read 40791 times.

Quoting undertheradar (Reply 80):

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 66):

FWF 'plays' with us and our gullibility....I wish I could find out who FWF REALLY IS...#immadashell

All you have to do is check his Twitter profile:

Steven Frischling-Travel Social Media Consultant; Aviation Security Expert

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: davidzill
Posted 2014-03-15 21:07:35 and read 40473 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 23):

True to a degree, but we have nothing to gain from the data received from ACARS in this incident, or lack thereof in fact, just digital footprints that give a more or less non triangulated approximate position. 447 the ACARS data was flowing real-time with info that helped investigators immensely.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 21:07:39 and read 40504 times.

Quoting dreamflight767 (Reply 93):
As of now, we are speculating that whomever was in control of the aircraft was trying to "hide". But, what if the opposite is true? What if the actions (disable comms., altitude and heading changes, fly over populated areas, etc.) of the person(s) in control of the aircraft were an attempt to provoke an attack by the government against MH370.

How would the world react/view the Malaysian Government if they shot down a B777 with 200+ citizens from around the world (especially Chinese) on board?

Especially if there was never any solid (not squawking 7500, no unusual comms. from the crew, etc.) evidence to prove the aircraft was hijacked in the first place.

When the Government bodies didn't react as those in control of the aircraft thought the Government might (i.e. scramble), they just flew the airplane until fuel starvation.

Interesting idea but I would have thought the easiest way to provoke such a response would be to fly directly at a major population centre, i.e. Kuala Lumpur, which is not believed to have happened. Doesn't disprove your suggestion of course.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: undertheradar
Posted 2014-03-15 21:09:01 and read 40662 times.

Quoting Lindenwold (Reply 82):

wow...just wow!!! ..just gives me more cause to debunk FWF ... (i'm reading between the lines...psychologically)

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 21:10:04 and read 40522 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 89):
This is why he says IFN (Isfahan)

Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 2m
@mindoca @jn_moore @polaris01usa My determination for IFN is known distance, runway, infrastructure to support aircraft arrival, etc

I just had a look at Esfahan Airport on Google Maps (satellite view).

It certainly has some decent runways.

Interestingly, right next door is 8th Shekari Air Base.

There certainly seem to be some large buildings around the place that could accommodate a 777..

None of this is in ANY way conclusive of course, but neither does any of it contradict the hypothesis in any way.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:10:53 and read 40340 times.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 96):
It does - the only thing that would make it work - and I dont agree that it does FWIW - is if the pilots were NOT in on the game and this was done by pax who entered the cockpit and made the crew do things or else. IF - and again I dont believe it did - it did go to Iran, then there are two obvious suspects, the Iranians on board with false passports.

Funny how we haven't heard about those 2 chaps after the initial investigation dismissed them as mere asylum seekers headed towards Europe. Also that photo that came out that showed the 2 men, clearly was photoshopped. Who is to say those 2 weren't Iranian Inteligence agents planning this operation?; and that the passport stealing was part of the plan? And what of that Mr. Ali?...that lead has gone cold as well.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 21:11:10 and read 40735 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 94):
Not sure I understand the value of this. Has the idea of it being somewhere along one of the arcs at 0811h has been abandoned?

Flying with Fish was reporting that US Intelligence said the plane flew 3,675 miles - which is a pretty specific number. It of course isn't official, but Flying with Fish has been pretty spot on early release of information so far. So I drew a map to show where 3,675 miles - assuming the IGREX route - would put you.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:12:43 and read 40231 times.

Quoting undertheradar (Reply 101):
wow...just wow!!! ..just gives me more cause to debunk FWF ... (i'm reading between the lines...psychologically)

why would you debunk him? Clearly he has sources inside the TSA/DHS and the TSA wasn't happy about it. They wouldn't go after him if he didn't have sources and was just making stuff up.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:17:07 and read 39744 times.

Well there may be an answer to the phone question, however scary it might be:

Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 50s
@PCarSBA Maybe if you wanted everyone’s phone you take an infant on board and use it incentive for all phones to be turned over

i'm guessing that's just him spitballing.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: TheWipp
Posted 2014-03-15 21:17:13 and read 39764 times.

Story about pilots wife can be found here via google:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2507796/pg1

Seems like it's eben some Chinese news. There's a link to The story in The Mirror Uk. I dont buy it though, Sounds like they just have 2 houses.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: mandala499
Posted 2014-03-15 21:17:29 and read 39925 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 67):
You've basically just admitted to hijacking this aircraft, you terrorist...

I forgot to mention that I am also a Muslim... I enjoy smoking in aircraft cockpits when they allow me, and yes, I love chatting women up in the cockpit too (but usually the FAs). I wonder if that makes people conclude more that I did it...

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 70):
Thus, the aircraft landing in Iran is not possible unless the SATCOM pings were either shut down while the aircraft was still flying (e.g. the infamous E/E bay breaker theory)

The SatCom control boxes are not in the E/E bay where the transponder and ACARS control boxes are.

The sad thing now is that, the airplane can also be anywhere as the SatCom can be deactivated as soon as they reached the ground...

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 77):
have took it down, then yes, your Flight Simulator becomes relevant.

So my FS experience becomes more relevant than my maintenance manuals that enabled the heist to be so mysterious?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: undertheradar
Posted 2014-03-15 21:17:39 and read 39543 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 98):

LOL... you believe a 'profile' on the www.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ranold76
Posted 2014-03-15 21:17:56 and read 39484 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 54):
Yup, that's what I said. It's not a path, it's more like a ... region of probability? For any one ping that they receive, they can calculate an approximate circle of unknown-to-us width on the surface of the earth.

I know it's not a path, it's within the range of the arc to the geosat position location. That is why I mentioned deviation from that arc, as it likely isn't bang on. That is why I was curious about an hour earlier and two hours earlier etc. If it was 30 degress, then 40 degrees...then it's hitting/heading somewhat eastward, regardless of it being north or south etc.
To me, the aircraft is on land...and that is northward. Of the countries on/near that arc...draw your own conclusions logically.

[Edited 2014-03-15 21:20:21]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: max999
Posted 2014-03-15 21:18:20 and read 39820 times.

The New York Times has a damning report that says the Malaysian military missed an opportunity to intercept the plane as it was flying west across the country even though it passed over 3 radar stations. And the report also says the government directed search efforts to the east even as they were aware of the radar data was pointing west; they knew about this data the same day the plane disappeared.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/wo...task-of-finding-flight-370.html?hp

I personally think the government and military are incompetent and totally disorganized...and they've been trying to cover their butts ever since this started a week ago.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: davidzill
Posted 2014-03-15 21:18:31 and read 39356 times.

I doubt the aircraft could enter Iranian airspace without government cooperation. With the threat of Israeli strikes against Iran nuclear facilities and U.S. drones, you can bet that an unidentified blip on their radar would be dealt with immediately. Iran has been very quiet lately, and international events taking the spotlight off of them, this would be the best time for them to pull off an operation to commandeer and aircraft. Why and for what means? That is up for the CIA to find out and I'm sure they are quietly all over this one at this point.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: B2707SST
Posted 2014-03-15 21:22:28 and read 38950 times.

I see a few major problems with both the "guided missile" and Uighur hostage situation theories:

Guided Missile

If I'm a terrorist planning to use an aircraft as a guided missile, my best option is to hijack it a la 9/11 and use it immediately. This maximizes the element of surprise and takes advantage of natural confusion about what's going on; by the time the enemy responds, you've already done what you're looking to do.

My next-best option is to source a plane as quietly and discreetly as I can. A worn-out DC-10 from Biman (or an abandoned African 727, for that matter) bought for a few million dollars through a front company would be perfect. Call it whatever you want, a future executive jet, flying hospital, A&P trainer aircraft. As long as your cash is good, no one's going to pay much attention if you fly it off to a third-tier airport in SE Asia.

The absolute worst option would be this scenario: hijack a modern, impeccably-safe airliner full of passengers, sit on it for over a week, and in the process create one of the biggest stories of the last decade. The search for this aircraft has become probably the largest S&R operation in modern history. Every government in the region (and many well outside it) has been alerted and is looking for you. We now have thousands of internet volunteers combing through satellite footage trying to find 9M-MRO. If radar operators weren't as curious as they should have been about unidentified primary returns a few weeks ago, you can bet they're paying attention now.

Terrorists maximize their impact by taking advantage of unprepared, complacent targets, not by alerting them to their own vulnerability. If you're trying to create a spectacular mass casualty event, an airplane is a force multiplier - a means to an end, not an end in itself. Hijacking one and then just making it disappear is completely nonsensical.

Uighur Hostage Situation

The Uighur hostage theory makes a bit more sense, but still has some big problems. First, do the flight crew have any known connection to Uighurs? It doesn't seem like it, and if a flight-trained passenger was responsible for this, why not maximize your impact by hijacking a Chinese-flagged aircraft? Malaysia seems like a rather odd target, since it's a country that has done a pretty good job of staying out of the major geopolitical fights recently.

Also, if you're the Chinese government and learn about the hijacking while the plane's still in the air, wouldn't you immediately blare the news to the high heavens? This gives China exactly what it wants most: moral authority to come down even harder on separatists and dissidents. Once you have every news outlet in the world running endless stories about Muslim extremists hijacking a plane full of peaceful calligraphers, you've won the argument whatever the outcome of this particular incident.

China has consistently tried to make its internal problems with the Uighurs part of the "global war on terror", just as the Russians have with the Chechens - and every time a Russian airliner gets bombed or a theater taken captive, Putin makes sure we know who's responsible right away. China would do no less.

-B2707SST

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 21:22:53 and read 38826 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 104):
Flying with Fish was reporting that US Intelligence said the plane flew 3,675 miles - which is a pretty specific number. It of course isn't official, but Flying with Fish has been pretty spot on early release of information so far. So I drew a map to show where 3,675 miles - assuming the IGREX route - would put you.

Thanks. Seems to me that unless we are to completely throw out the arcs (and I see no reason to do so) then the highest probability locations would be those points on the arcs that can be reached by a 3675nm flight path.

Alas, because the route is not constrained this still leaves a lot of uncertainty. Also the arcs are, I'm sure, not as clearly demarcated in reality as they are represented as being. We don't know how thick they are, for example.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: shortstack81
Posted 2014-03-15 21:23:33 and read 38869 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 105):
why would you debunk him? Clearly he has sources inside the TSA/DHS and the TSA wasn't happy about it. They wouldn't go after him if he didn't have sources and was just making stuff up.

Even though his data are consistent, and bits of it are confirmed within 24 hours, they only seem to be leaking to him. If they're leaking to other journalists, they're not saying anything.

[Edited 2014-03-15 21:24:33]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 21:25:12 and read 38690 times.

so why still China quiet about those 20 engineers????

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 21:25:57 and read 38642 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 108):
So my FS experience becomes more relevant than my maintenance manuals that enabled the heist to be so mysterious?

I didn't say more relevant. Those would be pretty relevant too. Especially if you highlighted something   

Using FWF mileage, this is about the closest I can get from IGREX to an airport in Iran while avoiding Sri Lanka and India's airspace (I think). http://skyvector.com/?ll=25.24999561...AL:F.VO.IGREX:G.40.488966,93.50004

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 21:26:06 and read 38365 times.

Quoting shortstack81 (Reply 115):
Even though his data are consistent, and bits of it are confirmed within 24 hours, they only seem to be leaking to him. If they're leaking to other journalists, they're not saying anything.

I am not sure about that.

Weren't the WSJ articles based on high level leaks, perhaps from similar sources?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:26:14 and read 38357 times.

Quoting davidzill (Reply 112):

I doubt the aircraft could enter Iranian airspace without government cooperation. With the threat of Israeli strikes against Iran nuclear facilities and U.S. drones, you can bet that an unidentified blip on their radar would be dealt with immediately. Iran has been very quiet lately, and international events taking the spotlight off of them, this would be the best time for them to pull off an operation to commandeer and aircraft. Why and for what means? That is up for the CIA to find out and I'm sure they are quietly all over this one at this point.

Rahani would invite a possible regime change by the major powers of the world. You can bet the US and China would team up to do it too, since the plane was full of Chinese citizens. What i think is that its a faction within the Iranian regime, a faction that is powerful and obviously has the support of the mullahs and Iranian military, that did this. Obviously nothing is confirmed but i'm going to go with this theory. Rahani would never do something like this because he knows he would be finished...immediately.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: virgin744
Posted 2014-03-15 21:27:46 and read 38693 times.

Something odd about the Texas Instruments twitter post..Why would they offer condolences to the family of the employees on the plane if it hasn't technically been confirmed as crashed yet, and no-one has been officially confirmed as died in said crash.....?

Unless they know something more than whats reported surely its very premature to suggest or state a person has died before any evidence to support it. Obviously this sort of incident usually ends up as only 1 bad outcome but its a very strange situation that's evolving and until they find any plane wreckage its surprising to already pass judgment I would say.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: AR385
Posted 2014-03-15 21:28:07 and read 38246 times.

I would think that if Iran is in on this at any level. Let me rephrase this, if the government of Iran, is in on this at any level, they´ve just turned themselves into a complete pariah of the international community for the next 50 years.

The resultant destruction of their economy and demise of said government is not what the regime, crazy as it has behaved, would be looking for.

I seriously doubt any Iranian connection.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Tapir
Posted 2014-03-15 21:28:10 and read 38187 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 116):

Politically, China and Malaysia cooperate in many issues. Maybe, they too not telling the whole truth and waiting for Malaysia to come clean. I am speculating, of course.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:28:42 and read 38335 times.

Quoting shortstack81 (Reply 115):

Even though his data are consistent, and bits of it are confirmed within 24 hours, they only seem to be leaking to him. If they're leaking to other journalists, they're not saying anything.

they are leaking to the WSJ as well; even if its a little later. The WSJ broke the story about the pings. Their reporter was on NPR and gave an interview in which he actually said the plane probably landed somewhere.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 21:29:16 and read 38167 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 114):
Thanks. Seems to me that unless we are to completely throw out the arcs (and I see no reason to do so) then the highest probability locations would be those points on the arcs that can be reached by a 3675nm flight path.

The arcs didn't quite make sense to me. Are we suppose to believe he flew the arc percisely, or are these just points that he hit, but could have continued to move from there? I seriously doubt he knew the satellite arc to follow, but maybe I am missing something in what the arc data means.

Quoting shortstack81 (Reply 115):
Even though his data are consistent, and bits of it are confirmed within 24 hours, they only seem to be leaking to him. If they're leaking to other journalists, they're not saying anything.

Probably because other journalists are worried about fact checking and an editorial board where as FWF probably isn't.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 21:29:17 and read 38100 times.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 97):
Talking to too many towers at once does actually pose a problem, but assuming you had good signal strength and the network was robust enough to switch you from tower to tower gracefully, speed still causes a very practical problem: the multiplexing. GSM works reliably only up to speeds of about 200m/h, because of time-division multiplexing. Past that speed, by the time you get your cue to go and respond, you've already missed your time slot! Now, of course, this changes when you're high in the air, since straight-line distance between you and the tower isn't changing at Mach 0.84 even though your horizontal distance is, but it is a contributing factor.

High speeds + low signal = good luck making a successful handshake, let alone transmission.

I've never seen any kind of usable signal above ~6000ft even above dense areas with robust networks :/ I don't know.

GSM doesn't even support soft-handoffs and the phone picks the tower to talk to. Not to mention GSM has a max range of 114829 feet if your talking about TDMA limitations which would take you at least 2 minutes to travel through. All you need is to get registered with one tower for one moment for the cell provider to have a rough location fix on your phone and for a text to go through it doesn't need to be reliable or constant. The maximum speed is not a constant figure and depends on the network and cell site arrangement.

Edit: the 250km/hr is the design figure for the specification to be within normal parameters not the ultimate limits at which things could still partially work. (getting texts only through randomly doesn't count as "working" according to the spec which doesn't even consider a text only network as that was added later piggy backing off control message note text fields)

[Edited 2014-03-15 21:48:01]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:30:27 and read 37871 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 121):
I would think that if Iran is in on this at any level. Let me rephrase this, if the government of Iran, is in on this at any level, they´ve just turned themselves into a complete pariah of the international community for the next 50 years.

The resultant destruction of their economy and demise of said government is not what the regime, crazy as it has behaved, would be looking for.

I seriously doubt any Iranian connection.

what if its not the entire government, but just a faction? Clearly we know Rohani doesn't really run all the show in Iran; the Mullahs and Military are behind the curtain pulling the rest of the strings.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: B2707SST
Posted 2014-03-15 21:32:14 and read 37892 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 124):
The arcs didn't quite make sense to me. Are we suppose to believe he flew the arc percisely, or are these just points that he hit, but could have continued to move from there? I seriously doubt he knew the satellite arc to follow, but maybe I am missing something in what the arc data means.

Please read my post 70 above. The airplane was somewhere ON, or very near, those arcs when it sent its final SATCOM ping. This means it was nowhere near an Indian Ocean route to Iran.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 21:32:27 and read 38059 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 102):
I just had a look at Esfahan Airport on Google Maps (satellite view).

It certainly has some decent runways.

Interestingly, right next door is 8th Shekari Air Base.

There certainly seem to be some large buildings around the place that could accommodate a 777..

None of this is in ANY way conclusive of course, but neither does any of it contradict the hypothesis in any way.

Recognizing that @flyingwithfish has a proven track record, I remain highly skeptical of the "safe on the ground in enemy hands" theories.

I still don't see how any terrorist group--be they Iranian or otherwise--would remain silent in such a scenario. Surely, recognizing they have just scored a significant victory by virtue of capturing (intact) an airliner and 200+ hostages, they would be doing everything in their power to make it known to the world. They would see that this was their 15 minutes and they would be doing their best to be remembered for it.

Yet here we are, more than a week out, and I've heard no claims of responsibility let alone Youtube videos etc.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-15 21:33:18 and read 37916 times.

Quoting phantomx18 (Reply 90):
Has anyone postulated that maybe the pilot was gay

That was a theory on the Ethiopian 767 incident a few weeks ago. Nonetheless, the Ethiopian incident illustrates just how easy it is for one pilot to hi-jack / take over their own aircraft. Maybe the Ethopian incident helped this event become reality for somebody...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: nupogodi
Posted 2014-03-15 21:34:56 and read 37657 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 124):
The arcs didn't quite make sense to me. Are we suppose to believe he flew the arc percisely

Gods no. Please read the thread.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:42:00 and read 36959 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 128):
Recognizing that @flyingwithfish has a proven track record, I remain highly skeptical of the "safe on the ground in enemy hands" theories.

I still don't see how any terrorist group--be they Iranian or otherwise--would remain silent in such a scenario. Surely, recognizing they have just scored a significant victory by virtue of capturing (intact) an airliner and 200+ hostages, they would be doing everything in their power to make it known to the world. They would see that this was their 15 minutes and they would be doing their best to be remembered for it.

Yet here we are, more than a week out, and I've heard no claims of responsibility let alone Youtube videos etc.

according to him, its not about the other hostages or the plane; its specifically either about the cargo in the hold or those 20 employees from Freescale. Its not "terrorism" per se; more like a hijack to get those specific people.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: shortstack81
Posted 2014-03-15 21:42:01 and read 36843 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 124):
Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 124):
The arcs didn't quite make sense to me. Are we suppose to believe he flew the arc percisely, or are these just points that he hit, but could have continued to move from there? I seriously doubt he knew the satellite arc to follow, but maybe I am missing something in what the arc data means.

The arcs are not the path of the aircraft. They're related to where the aircraft possibly was based on the pings to the satellite, which is in a geosynchronous orbit.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: IADLHR
Posted 2014-03-15 21:42:12 and read 36636 times.

Quoting capri (Reply 76):
how about US knew in advance what wld happen and were already on board and rescued it and took it to Guam????? doeas Guam falls in 7.5 hrs flight?

The problem is that there is no place to hide the plane in Guam. By this time someone would have seen it and workd would have leaked out.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: TheWipp
Posted 2014-03-15 21:42:37 and read 36936 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 128):

That flying fish guy is not talking about terrorism in a 'classical' way. He's talking about landing the plane, taking "cargo" (probably the Freescale workers) off, and eliminating everything else.
That's probably also the reason he writes things like "value is not always $$$" and stuff like that.


Not sure if I'm buying his tweets, just trying to explain them.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 11Bravo
Posted 2014-03-15 21:43:22 and read 36626 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 124):
I seriously doubt he knew the satellite arc to follow, but maybe I am missing something in what the arc data means.

I think you do misunderstand. The northern and southern arcs are an intersection point not a flight path. The aircraft's last position was somewhere on one of these arcs. It wasn't flying a course along the arc, it was crossing the arc. It was at a point somewhere on one of the two arcs flying in an unknown direction.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 21:44:14 and read 36406 times.

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 127):
Please read my post 70 above. The airplane was somewhere ON, or very near, those arcs when it sent its final SATCOM ping. This means it was nowhere near an Indian Ocean route to Iran.

Fair enough. I definitely concede that I don't know enough about SATCOM and the calculations that go into it.

The only place where the SATCOM and the new FWF mileage intersect is West of Southern Australia or Middle of Kazakhstan

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3000nm%...C=red&DU=mi&SU=kts&RS=best&RC=navy

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-15 21:44:39 and read 36411 times.

I was thinking of all that has taken place since MH 370 went missing. A lot of it is complex with many angles and twists and turns. So, I was trying to break this event down and trying to make it relatable and came up with this: someone unlocking my parked car in a shopping mall in front of the public with a stolen key and driving away without a trace, just vanished.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 21:45:47 and read 36338 times.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 135):
I think you do misunderstand. The northern and southern arcs are an intersection point not a flight path. The aircraft's last position was somewhere on one of these arcs. It wasn't flying a course along the arc, it was crossing the arc. It was at a point somewhere on one of the two arcs flying in an unknown direction.

That and the sat arc's estimate endpoint doesn't mean the flight was there it just means that is the limits of where they think it could be according to the sat estimate. It could very well be in the middle of the arc or doing erratic circles around the arc for all we know. It is more like a giant search zone with limits set at the south/north extremes.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: koruman
Posted 2014-03-15 21:46:44 and read 36260 times.

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 133):
The problem is that there is no place to hide the plane in Guam. By this time someone would have seen it and workd would have leaked out.

Guam and the rest of Micronesia is just like the central Indian Ocean around Diego Garcia: it's an American lake, and a highly defended one with the most advanced surveillance equipment imaginable.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 21:47:49 and read 36262 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 131):
according to him, its not about the other hostages or the plane; its specifically either about the cargo in the hold or those 20 employees from Freescale. Its not "terrorism" per se; more like a hijack to get those specific people.

How bizarre.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 21:48:59 and read 35934 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 140):
How bizarre.

Why don't we just search up their linkedin profiles.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:49:41 and read 35969 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 140):
How bizarre.

Yeah i thought so too, but then again the Iranians, if who it turns out to be who did this, are desparate to get that nuke all setup and ready to go...so that they can have an insurance policy i guess.

Also he said DHS isn't looking to the south anymore:

Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 9m
@TomHomes I think it went north and DHS source just told me they are not looking south

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-15 21:50:16 and read 35696 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 141):

I am sure they are searching all of their social media records.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Tapir
Posted 2014-03-15 21:50:43 and read 35850 times.

Quoting max999 (Reply 111):
I personally think the government and military are incompetent and totally disorganized...and they've been trying to cover their butts ever since this started a week ago.

A bit of DCA head's background here.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/m...r-attack-from-hong-kong-based-dail

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 21:51:13 and read 35678 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 136):
Fair enough. I definitely concede that I don't know enough about SATCOM and the calculations that go into it.

The only place where the SATCOM and the new FWF mileage intersect is West of Southern Australia or Middle of Kazakhstan

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3000nm%...C=red&DU=mi&SU=kts&RS=best&RC=navy

Assuming a direct route. If the flight path is not direct then all sorts of other solutions are possible.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: travelhound
Posted 2014-03-15 21:51:23 and read 35827 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 50):
Apparently he has a history of breaking news from high level confidential sources, and his computers were raided by government officials some years ago in an attempt to identify his sources.

That suggests his connections are sound.

His connection in that case was an anonymous Google email account.

In this case (MH370) he might simply just be a means of delivering information by others, than an informed blogger with connections.

Quoting koruman (Reply 59):
In one theory, the Chinese simply decided to shoot the aircraft down, and direct the Search and Rescue attempt thousands of kilometers away to the Gulf of Thailand.

I'd suggest if the plane had been shot down in the Gulf of Bengal, Burma or even southern China we would have known about it by now.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 21:51:34 and read 35823 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 136):
The only place where the SATCOM and the new FWF mileage intersect is West of Southern Australia or Middle of Kazakhstan

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3000nm%...C=red&DU=mi&SU=kts&RS=best&RC=navy

Which routed from IGREX look something like this: http://skyvector.com/?ll=25.24999561...AL:F.VO.IGREX:G.40.488966,93.50004

It puts them right through Indian airspace which is hard to imagine that would go unnoticed.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: TheWipp
Posted 2014-03-15 21:52:58 and read 35507 times.

Whatever happened, I just can't believe nobody knows what happened! All the technical stuff, pings, etc asside, I bet some government or agency or whoever knows exactly what happened.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 21:53:01 and read 35545 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 147):
Which routed from IGREX look something like this: http://skyvector.com/?ll=25.24999561...AL:F.VO.IGREX:G.40.488966,93.50004

It puts them right through Indian airspace which is hard to imagine that would go unnoticed.

FWF said that its possible to get through Indian airspace...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-15 21:53:59 and read 35733 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 147):

Per CNN, apparently INdian military radar is not activated unless there is a threat. So, theoretically they could have gone unnoticed.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 21:56:40 and read 35440 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 149):
FWF said that its possible to get through Indian airspace...
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 149):
Per CNN, apparently INdian military radar is not activated unless there is a threat. So, theoretically they could have gone unnoticed.

VERY interesting.

The nearest airport I could find near the SATCOM and FWF Mileage intersection is Arkalyk Airport with an 8,200 ft runway.

The routing would look like this: http://skyvector.com/?ll=25.24999561...AL:F.VO.IGREX:G.40.488966,93.50004

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 21:57:07 and read 35376 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 150):
Per CNN, apparently INdian military radar is not activated unless there is a threat. So, theoretically they could have gone unnoticed.

Strange isn't radar meant to tell you if there is an incoming unknown threat or I guess they only turn it on if they think there might be something coming from a more general standpoint.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: EricR
Posted 2014-03-15 21:57:41 and read 35366 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 147):

It puts them right through Indian airspace which is hard to imagine that would go unnoticed.

How do you know it went unnoticed? Very possible it was noticed. Just because the media has not been made aware of this fact does not mean it went unnoticed.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 21:58:26 and read 35268 times.

I have no idea how specifically relevant this will become (the article is four and a half years old), but for the sake of completeness I am sharing this link in view of the Iranian speculation:

Iran Gains U.S. Military Technology Through Malaysia Middlemen

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aK4daf8MD.Bw

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 21:59:17 and read 35223 times.

the slow climbing of the aircraft that was reported before, will tell you that it had more fuel that first was thought

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: flyenthu
Posted 2014-03-15 22:00:16 and read 35002 times.

Are the investigators not working on voice recognition of the last words from the cockpit, if it came from pilots or someone else? It appears that the last message from cockpit came in between the shutting down of ACARS and transponders.

Sorry if this is a repeat.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: EricR
Posted 2014-03-15 22:00:34 and read 34973 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 152):

Strange isn't radar meant to tell you if there is an incoming unknown threat or I guess they only turn it on if they think there might be something coming from a more general standpoint.

Military vs. commercial radar. Probably no immediate need to have military radar on, but commercial radar on.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 22:01:51 and read 35004 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 153):
How do you know it went unnoticed? Very possible it was noticed. Just because the media has not been made aware of this fact does not mean it went unnoticed.

I don't. I freely admit that. Just thought they would have said something.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 152):
Strange isn't radar meant to tell you if there is an incoming unknown threat or I guess they only turn it on if they think there might be something coming from a more general standpoint.

You would think so.

The Wikipedia page says the airport at the cross of the two points is rarely used and state of disrepair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkalyk_Airport

But a search of Facebook clearly indicates people with the ability to use social media live there so one would think if it were there, someone would have reported it by now: https://www.facebook.com/search/110079109013995/residents/present

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 737tdi
Posted 2014-03-15 22:02:22 and read 34769 times.

To respond to the idea of defeating the cockpit door. It would be very hard if a person were trying from the outside. I can not speak to the 777 but I can speak to Boeing and the 737. A buddy and myself installed the very first "bullet proof/anti-tamper door on a 737. I know every little thing about these cockpit doors. I am assuming the 777 has the same door, which I am 99.9% sure is the same door. I will not speak of the specifics but these doors are as secure as an aircraft door can be. The only way to defeat the door is from the cockpit side. Except, a person who knows these doors like I do could. There aren't many mechs. who know these intricacies but it can be found in the wiring diagrams. If you had an electrical savvy guy he could but he would also have to know where the wiring looms are. That is not impossible to find if you are a mech.. Only if you know where the wiring is. By the way the doors have dead bolts that can not be defeated, key or no key. If the Captain/FO sets the lock it can not be defeated. No codes/passwords, it is a mechanical lock and you will not get in to the cockpit. I have been locked out a couple of times and have used the emergency pull on the F.O.'s side to access the cockpit.



Did a unknown person access the cockpit. I don't think so. What I mean by that? The crew knew them, it was the crew, or they unlocked the door. It takes a actual physical/mental decision to unlock that door. If a correct code is entered the crew can allow/disallow entry. A safecracker could not enter these doors unless he knew the code, but the code can be rejected up to ? sec.s after input. It is a very long time if you are trying to hijack an airplane.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: davidzill
Posted 2014-03-15 22:03:22 and read 34868 times.

Where would they park in Diego Garcia? Next to the B-52, B-2, or the B-1? Highly unlikely it even got close to Diego Garcia, same goes for Guam.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 22:03:47 and read 34712 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 147):
It puts them right through Indian airspace which is hard to imagine that would go unnoticed.
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 149):
FWF said that its possible to get through Indian airspace...

Not going unnoticed and getting through are not mutually exclusive: both can happen. Indeed, that's exactly what happened as MH370 passed westward over the Malay Peninsula. (It's also what happened to KE007 over Kamchatka IIRC.)

However, had MH370 been noticed by India and still got through I'm sure we'd have heard of it by now.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: StaticShock
Posted 2014-03-15 22:04:30 and read 34693 times.

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 113):

I signed up here just to say thank you for this post and for adding some much-needed perspective to this thread. I am not trying to make a big thing of this but I personally know (and I believe, knew) one of the passengers and the level of fetishism around conspiracy theories and terrorism is not acceptable. There is such a thing as reasoned debate and speculation and quite another to throw around unfounded crap on the basis of "oh it popped into my head".

I also note a lot of people talking about China and pointing fingers when I (maybe incorrectly) assume that those people don't have any experience of China or Chinese culture. I am in Beijing right now and the level of shock and anger is as high as it is seemingly in the rest of the world.

Lastly, with the greatest of respect, one or two nationalities on here especially seem to be particularly titillated over the idea of some kind of terror masterplan which is extremely saddening to see. The way the world has gone these days to the point we try and turn sadness over such a tragic event into anger and paranoia and xenophobia is just horrible to see.

Thanks

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: capri
Posted 2014-03-15 22:06:32 and read 34371 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 154):
I have no idea how specifically relevant this will become (the article is four and a half years old), but for the sake of completeness I am sharing this link in view of the Iranian speculation:

Iran Gains U.S. Military Technology Through Malaysia Middlemen

very interesting indeed, this will heat up in future dependant on the outcome of this tragidy

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 22:07:25 and read 34312 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 161):
However, had MH370 been noticed by India and still got through I'm sure we'd have heard of it by now.

That's more along the lines of what I was trying to say.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: TXspotter
Posted 2014-03-15 22:19:05 and read 33040 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 164):

Why would WE know this by now?

A lot of different departments of the US, countries, and companies MIGHT know SOME things. So the idea that they would tell us is false.

It's a criminal investigation...We aren't going to know a lot about this.

We will be told little and these threads will increase in number.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 22:22:16 and read 33070 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 156):
Are the investigators not working on voice recognition of the last words from the cockpit, if it came from pilots or someone else? It appears that the last message from cockpit came in between the shutting down of ACARS and transponders.

Sorry if this is a repeat.

One of the talking heads on CNN said the voice behind "All right, good night" was identified as being one of the flight crew but I've seen no corroboration of this anywhere else so they were likely overstating themselves.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: suseJ772
Posted 2014-03-15 22:22:46 and read 33057 times.

For what it is worth, Flying with Fish just told me via Tweet that he believes the SATCOM arcs are inaccurate and that "others agree." That the 3,675 mileage is more of an accurate idea of flight path than the SATCOM arc.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: FltAdmiralRitt
Posted 2014-03-15 22:24:45 and read 32452 times.

It would take sophisticated training and equipment for an agent not in the flight deck to accomplish a highjacking.

The following steps would have to be accomplished.

1) disable comms.
2) incapacitate the passengers.
3) Enter the cockpit.
4) overpower two pilots.
5) switch off the transponder.
6) fly the plane to avoid rardar.

But the sequence does not have to be so rigid. Only the first one.

About the only way I see to do this is from the
forward of the cargo bay by an agent stowing away.
and gaining access to the Electronics Bay.
Riggin comms to turn off right at turnover to Saigon controll.
Blow a hole into pilot compartment send in Arsenic gas.

One you are in controll of the cockpit, all the other steps fall into place.
But an operation such as this needs a MOTIVE.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: cabochris
Posted 2014-03-15 22:25:14 and read 32690 times.

Ever flown over India in the middle of the night.... Not a sound on the comm. Wow, it looks like even the Indians were asleep. There are large areas in the Kolkata FIR, particularly over Bay of Bengal, that have no radar coverage at present.

No way India can admit this. Start the detraction.

Where are you 28420

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 22:25:34 and read 32642 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 167):
For what it is worth, Flying with Fish just told me via Tweet that he believes the SATCOM arcs are inaccurate and that "others agree." That the 3,675 mileage is more of an accurate idea of flight path than the SATCOM arc.

I have to say that his map does look more like a more realistic, detailed and analytical representation.

http://pic.twitter.com/oVhSU9cOAs

{Edit: I don't know why the automatic hyperlinking hasn't worked, but you can copy and paste the link if you haven't seen it previously]

[Edited 2014-03-15 22:27:03]

[Edited 2014-03-15 22:28:14]

[Edit: Fixed the link - I hope]


[Edited 2014-03-15 22:29:24]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: k83713
Posted 2014-03-15 22:29:33 and read 32001 times.

Quoting StaticShock (Reply 162):
Lastly, with the greatest of respect, one or two nationalities on here especially seem to be particularly titillated over the idea of some kind of terror masterplan which is extremely saddening to see. The way the world has gone these days to the point we try and turn sadness over such a tragic event into anger and paranoia and xenophobia is just horrible to see.

I think it's not about xenophobia or lack of pain which I'm sure every normal person feels for those on board. See, this is quite specialized place in internet and people are just trying to understand why this happened from perspective of aviation. Purpose is clear - to find out ways to stop that from happenning again. But it seems in this story of MH370 flight the borderline between aviation and other aspects, like conspiracy, terrorism, security is already crossed and people have no other choice but to discuss why things are like this. Nobody tries to frame other nationalities, it's just versions discussion based on what people know from experience.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 22:30:18 and read 31798 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 170):
I have to say that his map does look more like a realistic, detailed and analytical representation.

https://twitter.com/flyingwithfish/status/444736126482272256/photo/1

How can you say it's more realistic if you don't know where the plane actually is? If the plane is at the bottom of the ocean then it's far from realistic.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chrcaremanav
Posted 2014-03-15 22:31:19 and read 31987 times.

Hi! Here is an article by Ben Sandilands at Plane Talking. Take care. Have a nice night or day.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...ntinue-to-baffle-airline-insiders/

P.S. I do not have any opinion about that tragedy and mystery, I will wait for the conclusion, if it ever comes, but I lean more on Deliberate Highjacking and sabotage, but We will know soon or never. Au Revoir from Canada.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-15 22:31:19 and read 32176 times.

interesting tweet from flying with fish


async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">>

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 22:32:06 and read 31801 times.

The kidnapping of the Freescale employee's or their cargo is a far fetched given how paranoid the US is in letting US companies do sensitive work or even use materials sourced from China in sensitive (national security) related projects. Even a 2 dollar magnet gets flak and requires an exemption how likely do you think the US government and freescale itself would even float the idea of doing super-secret design work in china.

Freescale has many divisions and the one in China seems to be focused on what happens in china, chip fab research, RF design for cellphones, MCUs for cars and vehicles, consumer electronics, ...

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?code=CHINA
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?code=MALAYSIA

The malaysia office is also into consumer electronics, cellphones, and related subjects.

See this job posting for freescale, (Note the requirements on the bottom and US location)
http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/9718356

US citizenship and fluency in English
A valid US passport
Frequent travel to customer sites within the US and internationally (25% of the time)
Willingness to sign a DoD ITAR NDA
An active or re-activatible DoD security clearance, or no known barriers to obtaining a first time security clearance

Most of the US restrictions on technology transfer and location sensitivities are already in place just to stop such an insane plot from occurring. Which is why it makes little sense here. None of the freescale passengers likely qualify for security clearance just based on their passport alone.

If someone was going to do this they would take a flight carrying a team of US based Freescale employee's.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: boacvc10
Posted 2014-03-15 22:32:10 and read 31558 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 167):
believes the SATCOM arcs are inaccurate

Those satcom arcs are elevation angles from ground, towards the satellite position over the western indian ocean, equatorial point, and yes, they are completely theoretical. Assume a 5-10 mile swath of land on both sides of that arc, for easy reference. But, the mode of projection of a map will distort this swath, so at the northern ridges you should assume greater angular variation for each degree of latitude (the curvature of the earth is much larger at greater latitudes).

Therefore there needs to be an understanding that the "zone of interest" will be 5-10 miles wide (both sides) towards the equator, and probably 10-15 miles wide (both sides) towards the poles.

So, in other words, just having that single data point on that thick curved line gives you only a general shaped area, with countless thousands of square miles, in which the aircraft passed through one or two times at the most. Not good. ...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: flood
Posted 2014-03-15 22:32:29 and read 32151 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 73):
Well, according to him, some will still be alive.

Also according to FwF, they're not.

13h ago: "What happened to the passengers? A5: In my opinion they were eliminated."
2h ago: "I believe the aircraft was flown, landed, off loaded of what they wanted, plane & collateral liabilities are eliminated"
43m ago: "It is likely at least 20 pax needed to be alive. night flight, mostly over water, they have no idea until the end"

I don't doubt he has sources at DHS, but his tweets read like wild mix of sources and throwing darts.

Quoting capri (Reply 116):
so why still China quiet about those 20 engineers????

Huh?

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 156):
Are the investigators not working on voice recognition of the last words from the cockpit, if it came from pilots or someone else?

I think we can reasonably assume they've already determined whether it was said by the Captain, the FO, or some unidentified third unknown source. Given their belief ACARS had already been shut off prior to reaching the coast and considering the captain's home is now being searched (may have missed it, but I don't recall reports of the FO's home being searched) I'll venture to guess it was the Captain who signed off.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 167):
For what it is worth, Flying with Fish just told me via Tweet that he believes the SATCOM arcs are inaccurate and that "others agree."

We've had a number of people on here say the same thing.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 170):
I have to say that his map does look more like a realistic, detailed and analytical representation.

It looks more like someone took an estimated mileage figure and sought out to find the most sensational destination.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 22:35:35 and read 31643 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 172):
How can you say it's more realistic if you don't know where the plane actually is? If the plane is at the bottom of the ocean then it's far from realistic.

I say this because it looks at flight specific routes, waypoints, actual distances etc, rather than just drawing two big arcs on a map.

Then I add the real world questions of how this could be done, and look at the shadowing scenario with the KLM flight that followed this same routing (as far as the Iranian border) on the same night at about the same time, and it starts to look more "realistic" (or plausible if you prefer) than the map with the two big arcs.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 22:36:12 and read 31377 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 167):
For what it is worth, Flying with Fish just told me via Tweet that he believes the SATCOM arcs are inaccurate and that "others agree." That the 3,675 mileage is more of an accurate idea of flight path than the SATCOM arc.

Inaccurate, yes but they are somewhere within the two points (with a fat buffer for errors) as from what I gather about how they figured out the rough location of the last ping there is no way it is totally off track from the corridor that connects the two extremes together.

What he was actually saying is he thinks they are invalid which I don't think is true.

Edit: it also demonstrates he doesn't understand that the two points are not where the plane might be but are the extremes of where the estimate thinks they will be. Due to the way the inmarsat system works if can't be narrowed down much further than what we have. (And probably only really worked on the last ping or so)

[Edited 2014-03-15 22:37:43]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2014-03-15 22:37:28 and read 31451 times.

Quoting StaticShock (Reply 162):

You signed up just to conflate an authoritarian government with a race of people so as to label anyone who might question the motives or actions of a government xenophobic? Have you, in your life, ever questioned the actions or motives of any government of any other nation? That obviously makes you a xenophobe too.

More likely you are simply an agent of the Chinese government yourself, "compelled" to join to in order to attempt to influence discussion.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 22:40:48 and read 31016 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 178):
Then I add the real world questions of how this could be done, and look at the shadowing scenario with the KLM flight that followed this same routing (as far as the Iranian border) on the same night at about the same time, and it starts to look more "realistic" (or plausible if you prefer) than the map with the two big arcs.

No the big arcs represent the signal strength of the satellite and the distance to the geostationary IOR sat. They do not represent the flight path. The plane could be anywhere along that arc and it did not fly along the arc.

The shadowing scenario is far more far fetched than saying it was somewhere over this huge area due to the timing and network estimates from inmarsat.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 22:41:12 and read 31125 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 167):
For what it is worth, Flying with Fish just told me via Tweet that he believes the SATCOM arcs are inaccurate and that "others agree." That the 3,675 mileage is more of an accurate idea of flight path than the SATCOM arc.

I'm still skeptical--although he's certainly better informed than me.

I read through his Twitter feed and it seems he was given the number 3675 miles (or is it nautical miles?) and then he spent a few hours at skyvector.com finding a suitable track. In his words "On Thurs DHS told me the believed the plane flew 3675 miles, so I spent 12hrs looking at that within +/- 100 miles" and "Folks, this is how I arrived at my *GUESSTIMATE* based on info of where #MH370 ended, with the help of some experts." (Emphasis his.)

So unless he has other sources that indicated Esfahan it seems he arrived there simply through trial and error.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 737tdi
Posted 2014-03-15 22:43:03 and read 30910 times.

Quoting k83713 (Reply 171):
I think it's not about xenophobia or lack of pain which I'm sure every normal person feels for those on board. See, this is quite specialized place in internet and people are just trying to understand why this happened from perspective of aviation. Purpose is clear - to find out ways to stop that from happenning again. But it seems in this story of MH370 flight the borderline between aviation and other aspects, like

I believe that everyone here is responding out of disbelief. I believe they are responding with sorrow as well. The prayers and condolences are over. Let's figure out what the heck happened?


That is the way it is with me. I said prayers, waited, and then said what the heck? A very large aircraft is missing. They just don't disappear. Now it's time to find what happened. I haven't stopped praying for the living or the dead. Let's find it and discover what went wrong. I work in this industry and I want to know. What, When, Where and How. I think this one is horrible.. We will see.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ValleyFlyer
Posted 2014-03-15 22:43:33 and read 30851 times.

There was discussion here that ACARS can we "turned off" on the CDU. There is an ACARS message type 5P, Temporary suspension of ACARS with a response Q6, voice-to-ACARS change over. I could imagine that is generated when these changes are made and that the investigators used that to determine that ACARS was deliberately turned off?

I'm not an expert on ACARS, this is just based on some RTFM of the protocol and I could be totally wrong. It would be nice if an expert could chime in, because it bugs me that everyone in the media keeps talking about ACARS having been turned off but there is no explanation how that has been determined.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: B2707SST
Posted 2014-03-15 22:45:06 and read 30734 times.

Quoting StaticShock (Reply 162):
I signed up here just to say thank you for this post and for adding some much-needed perspective to this thread. I am not trying to make a big thing of this but I personally know (and I believe, knew) one of the passengers and the level of fetishism around conspiracy theories and terrorism is not acceptable. There is such a thing as reasoned debate and speculation and quite another to throw around unfounded crap on the basis of "oh it popped into my head".

I can only say you are very welcome. My deepest condolences to you and everyone else affected by this awful incident. Let's hope that this mystery will be solved soon, although I also suspect that the outcome will not be what we hope for.

Let's all keep Occam's Razor firmly in mind. While I don't have a problem with people speculating on this site - I've done a little myself on this topic and plenty over the years - I think we have a responsibility to the missing to keep our theories tied to the facts. Unfortunately, it's easy to get carried away with ever more elaborate theories in the absence of reliable information. Cryptic twitter postings and anonymous blog comments, while potentially worth discussing, should not be treated as gospel truth and repeated uncritically.

I also want to take the opportunity to thank, among many others, rcair1, Mandala499, SoCalGeo, and Starlionblue for their contributions to this thread. Posts are flooding in so fast that valuable information is almost immediately buried and we end up going around and around in circles. They've done incredible work trying to keep things at least somewhat organized.

-B2707SST

[Edited 2014-03-15 22:54:23]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 22:48:58 and read 30234 times.

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 176):
So, in other words, just having that single data point on that thick curved line gives you only a general shaped area, with countless thousands of square miles, in which the aircraft passed through one or two times at the most. Not good. ...

If the arcs are to be believed then you can get a little more confidence than that. The arcs apparently represent the range of possible positions of the aircraft at 0811h Kuala Lumpur time which is close to when it would have run out of fuel (in all likelihood). Hence the final resting place could presumably be near to the arcs.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: k83713
Posted 2014-03-15 22:49:08 and read 30241 times.

It will make sense to have FDR information stored in "cloud" from now and on. And no opportunity to turn it off from the cockpit. Seems like old days of possibility to isolate the aircraft and critical data from the world outside are gone...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 22:53:05 and read 29870 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 178):
Then I add the real world questions of how this could be done, and look at the shadowing scenario with the KLM flight that followed this same routing (as far as the Iranian border) on the same night at about the same time, and it starts to look more "realistic" (or plausible if you prefer) than the map with the two big arcs.

But the two bigs arcs are not flight paths so you're comparing apples to polar bears.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: k83713
Posted 2014-03-15 22:55:17 and read 29687 times.

As I understand these arcs is just a set of points from where the signal could come once (only once), when Inmarsat detected it. Then the plane could continue to fly further, we don't have information on that.

[Edited 2014-03-15 22:56:42]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: dampfnudel
Posted 2014-03-15 22:55:58 and read 29726 times.

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 150):
Per CNN, apparently INdian military radar is not activated unless there is a threat. So, theoretically they could have gone unnoticed.

And how would they know there's a threat if they can't detect an unidentified aircraft approaching their airspace??? It looks like the people/government involved with the disappearance of MH370 (if that's the case) really did their homework. I just can't believe a member of the flight crew of MH370 would decide to fly for 6-7 hours to commit suicide. We really need to find this plane.

[Edited 2014-03-15 22:59:18]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: k83713
Posted 2014-03-15 22:58:18 and read 29459 times.

Quoting dampfnudel (Reply 190):
We really need to find this plane.

I wonder will it be found before it melted...And how you deal if it is done.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: dampfnudel
Posted 2014-03-15 23:02:01 and read 29258 times.

Quoting k83713 (Reply 191):
I wonder will it be found before it melted...And how you deal if it is done.

What are you talking about?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 23:02:59 and read 29093 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 186):
The arcs apparently represent the range of possible positions of the aircraft at 0811h Kuala Lumpur time which is close to when it would have run out of fuel (in all likelihood). Hence the final resting place could presumably be near to the arcs.
Quoting edmountain (Reply 188):
But the two bigs arcs are not flight paths so you're comparing apples to polar bears.
Quoting k83713 (Reply 189):
As I understand these arcs is just a set of points from where the signal could come once (only once), when Inmarsat detected it. Then the plane could continue to fly further, we don't have information on that.

Okay, thank you for these clarifications.

I confess I was working under a misunderstanding, or an incomplete understanding.

Your comments have been helpful for my thinking.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: k83713
Posted 2014-03-15 23:06:51 and read 29023 times.

Quoting dampfnudel (Reply 192):

Referring to tweets from Flying Fish and idea of plane being eliminated on the ground

Quoting TheWipp (Reply 134):
That flying fish guy is not talking about terrorism in a 'classical' way. He's talking about landing the plane, taking "cargo" (probably the Freescale workers) off, and eliminating everything else.


[Edited 2014-03-15 23:07:33]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2014-03-15 23:07:29 and read 28873 times.

Quoting k83713 (Reply 187):
It will make sense to have FDR information stored in "cloud" from now and on. And no opportunity to turn it off from the cockpit. Seems like old days of possibility to isolate the aircraft and critical data from the world outside are gone...

Not a chance this will happen. Aircraft will be required to have some form of tracking system that can't be turned off before FDR information is kept in the cloud. Transmitting that kind of data is enormously expensive. Just look at the ACARS transmission. I read in a previous thread the cost per transmission was about 5 USD. That's why the transmissions only happened every 30 mins. Now imagine a constant uplink of voice recordings and aircraft data. Talk about cost prohibitive.
Pat

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: koruman
Posted 2014-03-15 23:10:29 and read 28448 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 186):
If the arcs are to be believed then you can get a little more confidence than that. The arcs apparently represent the range of possible positions of the aircraft at 0811h Kuala Lumpur time which is close to when it would have run out of fuel (in all likelihood). Hence the final resting place could presumably be near to the arcs.

These arcs are not purported flight paths.

My understanding is simply that these arcs contain the location where the aircraft was at 0811 Kuala Lumpur time.

Interestingly, the southern arc doesn't cover any landfall apart from the vicinity of Jakarta in Indonesia, and fits poorly with any explanation as a suicide attempt would have been completed 6 hours earlier and there is nowhere else to land. The only land traversed on the southern arc is western Java, which has a population of 35 million, would have been in daylight at that time, and is just a few hundred miles from Kuala Lumpur, which would mean that the plane didn't just fly over Malaysia, but spent the next 7 hours circling around Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia without anybody noticing.

The northern arc is fascinating. Fascinating because the largest part of it falls within western China, which is precisely where the separatist terrorist group is located. And because there is one time zone in China, 0811 in the morning was almost 30 minutes before sunrise in Xinjiang. There is a tiny extension of the northern arc into former Soviet states in Central Asia, but basically:

a) The northern arc is Western and Southwest China,
b) The southern arc is basically the ocean and western Java.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: socalgeo
Posted 2014-03-15 23:14:14 and read 28141 times.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 136):
The only place where the SATCOM and the new FWF mileage intersect is West of Southern Australia or Middle of Kazakhstanhttp://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3000nm%...C=red&DU=mi&SU=kts&RS=best&RC=navy

I think that you are potentially correct, however, the plane could have flown any route to get to that arc, with the info that we think is factual (6+hours of flying time, not an infinite amount of fuel, etc...), they conceivably could have circled in the middle of the Bay of Bengal for a few hours in the area not covered by radar and then flown over Thailand to get to the most southerly part of the arc. They could potentially be anywhere along it.



SoCalGeo

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: k83713
Posted 2014-03-15 23:17:06 and read 27928 times.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 195):
Now imagine a constant uplink of voice recordings and aircraft data. Talk about cost prohibitive

You're right, economy is always decisive. With cold head it seems like cost will be restricting factor here. From other point of view, like having discount for bulk data transmission, operator will not charge so much more if volume of data/ rate of messaging increases to some extent. It's also economy in the end of the day, depends only if they have the available pipe. From safety point of view it makes a lot of sense and maybe new specialized satellites need to be launched just for that purpose. Anyway, first step could be imposing by safety regulations that ACARS system (and squawk maybe) being independently operated while plane is airborne.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: davidzill
Posted 2014-03-15 23:18:29 and read 28009 times.

Rumor has it that police returned to the Captains house and left with several items subsequent to verifying the voice checking out with Malaysian ATC. Getting interesting and taking on a more concrete direction everyday. I'm convinced the aircraft IS NOT underwater.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-15 23:22:18 and read 27496 times.

Quoting k83713 (Reply 189):
As I understand these arcs is just a set of points from where the signal could come once (only once), when Inmarsat detected it. Then the plane could continue to fly further, we don't have information on that.

It was made very clear in the last press conference that the last data ping was unlikely to be the last position, and that investogatory work was ongoing to determine something more precise.

Quoting flood (Reply 177):
I don't doubt he has sources at DHS, but his tweets read like wild mix of sources and throwing darts.

He has also tweeted that agencies are not working together, so even if he does have sources at the DHS who's to say that source has full disclosure of the facts. While I have no interest in promoting him, if you go back over several days of tweets you'll see a consistency of thought and some pointers that have subsequently been shared and discussed more widely.

Quoting dampfnudel (Reply 190):
And how would they know there's a threat if they can't detect an unidentified aircraft approaching their airspace???

Ever spent time in India? This does not surprise me at all.

So here we are, a week later, there's no evidence that the plane has crashed anywhere, and lots of pointers that it took a deliberately managed route somewhere for a purpose. Reuters is saying the India has now stepped down its search effort, I think all the countries that were searching have now been told that the plane is on land in some unknown location and the effort is now to discover motive, in the hope that leads to answers. There's a lot more to come out about what was on board (passengers and cargo) it seems to me.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: B2707SST
Posted 2014-03-15 23:23:49 and read 27748 times.

Jon Ostrower posted a WSJ update a couple of hours ago. He referred to hourly SATCOM pings, which I think is new information. This comment was also interesting and contradicts the FWF tweet:

Officials in government and industry have regarded the southern corridor into the Indian Ocean as the more likely path of the 777, but haven't ruled out the northern arc.

The track from northern Thailand to Kazakhstan crosses some of the most heavily militarized airspace in the world, including western China. According to the industry official, many of those nations "would have MiGs up in the sky before you even knew it" to intercept any unidentified flying object.

Google "What Satellite Data Reveal About Flight 370's Location" to read the article; I can't seem to link to it directly.

-B2707SST

[Edited 2014-03-15 23:26:48]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: k83713
Posted 2014-03-15 23:27:39 and read 27195 times.

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 201):
This comment was also interesting and contradicts the FWF tweet

So now everyone is free again to choose his religion: whether it's Northern route or Southern route. Level of evidence for any of them is about the same...


Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish
@MelissaAnnAdams @Donnajcherold No, the U.S. still gives the appearance of searching for #MH370. They don’t think it crashed.

Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish
@ToTheWinslow All I know is that DHS told me a short while ago they don’t believe exploring the southern options worthwhile

[Edited 2014-03-15 23:30:47]

[Edited 2014-03-15 23:31:32]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-15 23:27:57 and read 27442 times.


async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">>

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 23:29:36 and read 27286 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 196):
These arcs are not purported flight paths.

I never said they were.

Quoting koruman (Reply 196):
My understanding is simply that these arcs contain the location where the aircraft was at 0811 Kuala Lumpur time.

Yes, that's what I said they were. With the added benefit that if the plane was almost out of gas at 0811h then it must have come to rest nearby.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 23:32:05 and read 27007 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 203):
@Donnajcherold DHS has told me many times they have no evidence it crashed and a lot of evidence that it did not
— Flying With Fish (@flyingwithfish) March 16, 2014

Will be very interesting to see if this particular prediction pans out. However, as a long-time lurker of this forum I've always found it to have value in presenting corroborated evidence rather than rehashing random Twitter feeds. Time will tell.

[Edited 2014-03-15 23:35:37]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: fooflyboy
Posted 2014-03-15 23:34:48 and read 26822 times.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 159):
Did a unknown person access the cockpit. I don't think so. What I mean by that? The crew knew them, it was the crew, or they unlocked the door. It takes a actual physical/mental decision to unlock that door.

No question the door is secure. When it's closed and locked.

But what good is a locked door if it is opened for rest room breaks and meals? What is the protocol used for opening the door? Seems like plenty of opportunities there to gain access.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 737tdi
Posted 2014-03-15 23:39:02 and read 26664 times.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 159):
To respond to the idea of defeating the cockpit door. It would be very hard if a person were trying from the outside. I can not speak to the 777 but I can speak to Boeing and the 737. A buddy and myself installed the very first "bullet proof/anti-tamper door on a 737. I know every little thing about these cockpit doors. I am assuming the 777 has the same door, which I am 99.9% sure is the same door. I will not speak of the specifics but these doors are as secure as an aircraft door can be. The only way to defeat the door is from the cockpit side. Except, a person who knows these doors like I do could. There aren't many mechs. who know these intricacies but it can be found in the wiring diagrams. If you had an electrical savvy guy he could but he would also have to know where the wiring looms are. That is not impossible to find if you are a mech.. Only if you know where the wiring is. By the way the doors have dead bolts that can not be defeated, key or no key. If the Captain/FO sets the lock it can not be defeated. No codes/passwords, it is a mechanical lock and you will not get in to the cockpit. I have been locked out a couple of times and have used the emergency pull on the F.O.'s side to access the cockpit.

Did NO one see this post? Good grief! You can't fathom these remarks. It was a cockpit/brother hijack. Either the guy let him in or the guy was there already. No other suppositions. OOpps.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-15 23:39:15 and read 26574 times.

Quoting edmountain (Reply 205):
Quoting chrisrad (Reply 203):
@Donnajcherold DHS has told me many times they have no evidence it crashed and a lot of evidence that it did not
— Flying With Fish (@flyingwithfish) March 16, 2014

Will be very interesting to see if this particular prediction pans out. However, as a long-time lurker of this forum I've always found it to have value in presenting corroborated evidence rather than rehashing random Twitter feeds. Time will tell.

It's not a random twitter feed, many of us on here are following his posts. As it has been pointed out many of his tweets have proved to be correct, even if at the time none of us believed them....

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: StaticShock
Posted 2014-03-15 23:44:32 and read 26151 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 207):

With the greatest of respect, he believes that a 777 was hijacked, landed without anyone seeing it and destroyed just to access some cargo.
If someone has enough resources/planning/power to be able to do that surely just stealing the cargo from the airport in Malaysia is much easier than alerting the entire planet?

[Edited 2014-03-15 23:45:22]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 11Bravo
Posted 2014-03-15 23:45:35 and read 25947 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 203):
....and a lot of evidence that it did not

Exactly how does that work? How can one have "a lot" of evidence, or any at all, of something that did not happen?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 23:45:43 and read 26096 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 207):

It's not a random twitter feed, many of us on here are following his posts. As it has been pointed out many of his tweets have proved to be correct, even if at the time none of us believed them....

what scares me is that he keeps repeating that the passengers are dead; i mean would Iranians, if that who it turns out to be, murder that many people in cold blood? A significant amount of those on board were Chinese citizens; killing them would be an act of war...would Iran really risk that???

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 23:45:44 and read 25970 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 207):
It's not a random twitter feed, many of us on here are following his posts. As it has been pointed out many of his tweets have proved to be correct, even if at the time none of us believed them....

Just because he has been correct doesn't mean his theory is correct. What timeframe does his previous tweets correlate with other news stories and "experts" leaking information if they are around the same time his predictions are not his own nor are they novel. I don't read his twitter and I find it dubious to throw so much weight without providing a clear source and official confirmation. Not to mention even if he does have a real source there is nothing preventing that real source from being wrong. Until there is independent and multiple confirmation of information his theory is nothing more than that.

As I stated before it is highly unlikely that a Freescale's China/Malaysia branch would be doing any work on US military secret projects when this is almost all done in the states with US citizen's with security clearance.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 23:47:39 and read 25804 times.

Quoting StaticShock (Reply 208):
With the greatest of respect, he believes that a 777 was hijacked, landed without anyone seeing it and destroyed just to access some cargo.
If someone has enough resources/planning/power to be able to do that surely just stealing the cargo from the airport in Malaysia is much easier than alerting the entire planet?

Stealing cargo is easy. People have even stolen secured cargo with a security detail. It is far easier to pull of on the ground then in the air. Even kidnapping people is far easier on the ground and has many ways of being covered up without attracting so much international attention or potential repercussions.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 23:48:13 and read 25605 times.

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 207):
It's not a random twitter feed, many of us on here are following his posts. As it has been pointed out many of his tweets have proved to be correct, even if at the time none of us believed them....

The point is if I wanted to follow his Twitter feed I would do just that.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 23:49:50 and read 25595 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 210):
what scares me is that he keeps repeating that the passengers are dead; i mean would Iranians, if that who it turns out to be, murder that many people in cold blood? A significant amount of those on board were Chinese citizens; killing them would be an act of war...would Iran really risk that???

See this is going too far there is speculation and then there is insane speculation and that theory is in the extreme end of insane speculation. It would be very intriguing if it turns out to be true but I don't think there is enough information to even consider that likely. Not to mention the twitter poster apparently thinks the satcom pings are irrelevant and invalid because they don't fit with his theory which is a telling sign.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-15 23:50:34 and read 25440 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 212):
Stealing cargo is easy. People have even stolen secured cargo with a security detail. It is far easier to pull of on the ground then in the air. Even kidnapping people is far easier on the ground and has many ways of being covered up without attracting so much international attention or potential repercussions.

Right but lets say they stole it on the ground; how would they take it to their final destination if it wasn't Malaysia? How can you kidnap 20 people all at once on the ground, unless they were all traveling in a bus together or something?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-15 23:54:42 and read 25097 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 215):
Right but lets say they stole it on the ground; how would they take it to their final destination if it wasn't Malaysia? How can you kidnap 20 people all at once on the ground, unless they were all traveling in a bus together or something?

By ship, by plane, by truck, by bus, ... There are many ways to ship people/boxes around human trafficking is basically the illegal movement of kidnapped or otherwise captured people and it is unfortunately not that uncommon in asia in general.

Even ignoring that the fact remains that China/Malaysia Freescale Semiconductors is highly unlikely to be even handling sensitive US military tech as that would require US citizenship as well as security clearance which none of the 20 would qualify for just based on their passports alone. They all likely work on cellphones, cars, tv, and general consumer electronics which is what that entire area's focus is.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: StaticShock
Posted 2014-03-15 23:55:11 and read 25103 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 212):
Stealing cargo is easy. People have even stolen secured cargo with a security detail. It is far easier to pull of on the ground then in the air. Even kidnapping people is far easier on the ground and has many ways of being covered up without attracting so much international attention or potential repercussions.

Exactly. So people who are framing this as some kind of elaborate heist are just not thinking clearly. There are too many "sources" now who are stating things definitively when the truth is that we know hardly anything new than we did since midweek. The summary from the admins is a good example of actually what is known and anyone deviating from this is just speculating for their own excitement.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: edmountain
Posted 2014-03-15 23:56:15 and read 25086 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 210):
what scares me is that he keeps repeating that the passengers are dead; i mean would Iranians, if that who it turns out to be, murder that many people in cold blood? A significant amount of those on board were Chinese citizens; killing them would be an act of war...would Iran really risk that???

The passengers are almost certainly dead, but at this point in time there's zero evidence that Iranians had anything to do with this. Twitter feeds, no matter how well informed, do not count as evidence.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 11Bravo
Posted 2014-03-15 23:57:19 and read 25092 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 214):
Not to mention the twitter poster apparently thinks the satcom pings are irrelevant and invalid because they don't fit with his theory which is a telling sign.

Indeed. I suspect Mr. Fish is having a grand old time playing with everyone to see how many eager conspiracy theorists will take in this nonsense hook, line, and sinker. It is classic Grassy Knoll stuff.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-15 23:57:20 and read 24988 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 215):
Right but lets say they stole it on the ground; how would they take it to their final destination if it wasn't Malaysia? How can you kidnap 20 people all at once on the ground, unless they were all traveling in a bus together or something?

The answer to that question is perhaps one of the few parts of this extreme hypothesis that actually does make sense in terms of a motive (i.e. why hijack a plane to get what you want?).

It is one thing to secure the "cargo" you want (whether that is the people, their brains as his recent tweet claimed, or whatever they - or someone else - was carrying), but if you get them on a plane you also have a way to get them/it/whatever to the destination you want.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chrisair
Posted 2014-03-15 23:58:08 and read 24948 times.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 25):
I saw in the tweets on the flyingwithfish guys feed
Quoting Dalavia (Reply 50):
Apparently he has a history of breaking news from high level confidential sources, and his computers were raided by government officials some years ago in an attempt to identify his sources.
Quoting edmountain (Reply 128):
Recognizing that @flyingwithfish has a proven track record

I feel it's necessary to point out Frischling has a very checkered past. Not to drive this thread off topic (this will likely get buried anyway), but everyone reading his twitter page needs to take what he says with a large, large, large grain of salt..

https://www.google.ca/#q=steven+frischling+compulsive+liar

Only time will tell if he's correct this time.

And I'd just like to say this thread has been fascinating to read. I've learned a TON from various posts. Good work y'all!

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chrisrad
Posted 2014-03-15 23:58:59 and read 24967 times.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 209):
Quoting chrisrad (Reply 203):
....and a lot of evidence that it did not

Exactly how does that work? How can one have "a lot" of evidence, or any at all, of something that did not happen?

According to what he wrote: There is NO evidence that it crashed, there a A LOT of evidence it landed.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 211):

Quoting chrisrad (Reply 207):
It's not a random twitter feed, many of us on here are following his posts. As it has been pointed out many of his tweets have proved to be correct, even if at the time none of us believed them....

Just because he has been correct doesn't mean his theory is correct. What timeframe does his previous tweets correlate with other news stories and "experts" leaking information if they are around the same time his predictions are not his own nor are they novel. I don't read his twitter and I find it dubious to throw so much weight without providing a clear source and official confirmation. Not to mention even if he does have a real source there is nothing preventing that real source from being wrong. Until there is independent and multiple confirmation of information his theory is nothing more than that.

As I stated before it is highly unlikely that a Freescale's China/Malaysia branch would be doing any work on US military secret projects when this is almost all done in the states with US citizen's with security clearance.

I'm not saying everything he is tweeting is factually correct, however based on his history he seems to have sources, which obviously he can not reveal. Is anybody else on this forum providing any more information? I think it's good to have some 'alternate' sources of information other than the main media outlets.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-15 23:59:44 and read 24836 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 216):
Even ignoring that the fact remains that China/Malaysia Freescale Semiconductors is highly unlikely to be even handling sensitive US military tech as that would require US citizenship as well as security clearance which none of the 20 would qualify for just based on their passports alone. They all likely work on cellphones, cars, tv, and general consumer electronics which is what that entire area's focus is.

There are other applications of their knowledge that might be valuable to someone ... there is a scary train of thought here.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-16 00:00:45 and read 24692 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 214):

See this is going too far there is speculation and then there is insane speculation and that theory is in the extreme end of insane speculation. It would be very intriguing if it turns out to be true but I don't think there is enough information to even consider that likely. Not to mention the twitter poster apparently thinks the satcom pings are irrelevant and invalid because they don't fit with his theory which is a telling sign.

yeah i agree with you about his comment about the satcom pings; I'm hoping against hope that the plane is found somewhere, with the passengers alive...but as time goes on, that possibility goes down a lot as well.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: StaticShock
Posted 2014-03-16 00:01:04 and read 24686 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 215):
Right but lets say they stole it on the ground; how would they take it to their final destination if it wasn't Malaysia? How can you kidnap 20 people all at once on the ground, unless they were all traveling in a bus together or something?

I am sure you've read books/articles or watched documentaries on how easy and often cargo is stolen or "mispplaced" in shipping yards and airports around the world. Organised crime thrives and exists on such operations. I can't say I know much about Malaysia, but it would be naive in the extreme to think if someone wanted to steal something from an airport that badly that it would be out of reach. If this cargo was so sensitive then carrying it via commercial jet is not logical in the first place.

I cannot see the logic at all in trying to say that there was some cargo so precious it is worth stealing a 777 on the global stage to get hold of. I am not saying this is your theory btw, just addressing your post.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-16 00:01:30 and read 25214 times.

Flying with Fish has just tweeted:

" The location in Iran, as I mentioned, is based on specific mileage I was given by someone at US DHS on Thursday."

I guess we will know soon enough how reliable his DHS source is.

He certainly can't be blamed for being ambiguous or beating about the bush!

For clarity - it is the MILEAGE he has been given, not the fact that the destination is Iran.

[Edited 2014-03-16 00:08:26]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:11:38 and read 23913 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 222):
There are other applications of their knowledge that might be valuable to someone ... there is a scary train of thought here.

Dual purpose technology intended for military use is covered under ITAR. Freescale wouldn't for a second design a consumer electronic device which could say also guide a missile. Do you know why motion controllers suck so bad. (Look at the MEMS gyro's drift spec its atrocious for a reason, cost is one and the other is if it was extremely precise it could be used as a INS, they are not even designed to try to reduce the spec so it isn't dual use tech)

For example in the case of an instaport HDMI switch IC what scary train of thought do you have on this obviously consumer product. (It is just a representative example of what a consumer ASIC would be like)

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:15:43 and read 23926 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 223):
yeah i agree with you about his comment about the satcom pings; I'm hoping against hope that the plane is found somewhere, with the passengers alive...but as time goes on, that possibility goes down a lot as well.

It is unfortunate but historically and statistically the chances of the passengers being alive is basically zero, even the chances of finding the plane are getting worse with time and I do hope they find it before it all gets washed/drifts away and the pinger stops.

Even that special twitter feed thinks they are all dead for reasons I don't think make any sense. You can take a number and connect it to whatever story you want but when the satcom pings show it in the general area that completely excludes his thats not looking good for the chances his "theory" holds any water.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-16 00:15:48 and read 23844 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 226):
Dual purpose technology intended for military use

I wasn't even thinking that ... there are common compounds in batteries and devices that the Iranians seem to want to make but lack the capability.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:18:05 and read 23549 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 228):
I wasn't even thinking that ... there are common compounds in batteries and devices that the Iranians seem to want to make but lack the capability.

Ok consumer electronics and lithium battery chemistry isn't exactly rocket science you can find out that kind of stuff online even. Consumer electronics that is not covered under the sanctions is not something that is hard to obtain let alone find out information about it.

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=...dt=0,5&q=Lithium+battery+chemistry
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=HDMI&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:19:23 and read 23512 times.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 225):
He certainly can't be blamed for being ambiguous or beating about the bush!

For clarity - it is the MILEAGE he has been given, not the fact that the destination is Iran.

Problem is how old is that information and it still means he is just randomly guessing and making an entire story off one number.

Compared to piecing together network information from inmarsat his "flightpath" is completely arbitrary after it leaves the last known point.

[Edited 2014-03-16 00:20:12]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: shortstack81
Posted 2014-03-16 00:21:48 and read 23333 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 230):
Problem is how old is that information and it still means he is just randomly guessing and making an entire story off one number.

yes, much of the story he's reporting seem to be his thoughts. I suppose that they're a reasonable inference on the limited data even he's received, but I don't think that is what DHS is leaking to him. I read back through a day of his tweets and didn't get that sense.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-16 00:22:09 and read 23226 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 229):
Ok consumer electronics and lithium battery chemistry isn't exactly rocket science you can find out that kind of stuff online even. Consumer electronics that is not covered under the sanctions is not something that is hard to obtain let alone find out information about it.

Well, as I said, it is conjecture. No one here has any idea where MH370 and its cargo (people and belly cargo) are, or in what state. Nearly 24 hrs has passed since the Malaysian PM's press conference, and it's all gone quiet again - there is another press conference scheduled today though.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2014-03-16 00:23:24 and read 23252 times.

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 19):
So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...

Traditionally, ELT's are notoriously unreliable...good idea in theory, but they don't always work in real life. I know of quite a few GA crashes where the ELT didn't activate for various reasons, or was unable to be picked up because, for example, the antenna broke during the crash.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: chaseus1
Posted 2014-03-16 00:25:11 and read 23057 times.

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 206):
But what good is a locked door if it is opened for rest room breaks and meals? What is the protocol used for opening the door? Seems like plenty of opportunities there to gain access.

I imagine they have ways of doing this in some protected fashion. They probably don't want some things known though.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: monjonman
Posted 2014-03-16 00:25:38 and read 23164 times.

Just a bit of information regarding the possible southern track taken of this flight.
We have here in the north west of Australia surveillance aircraft that fly multiple times a day using infrared and other sophisticated camera gear looking for any possible incursions into australian territory, all the way out to cocos island in the middle of the Indian Ocean .
These aircraft are specifically designed for locating any small vessels that are trying to make it to the mainland of Australia or to one of the islands so they can be intercepted by the customs vessels.
So I would say that any area that these guys fly in would have already been closely screened before and after the 8th of March.
There are also multiple gas platforms and tankers all through the Northwest shelf with platform tender vessels running through that region all the time. out to about 500klm offshore.
I am not saying to rule these areas out, but I would have thought that they would have picked up on something already had the aircraft met it's fate within these areas.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: k83713
Posted 2014-03-16 00:28:15 and read 22798 times.

So if he leaks openly his sources information, why does he do it? Why don't his sources just stop feeding it to him if it contradicts real information or contradicts purpose to keep low profile now while investigation is still on?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:28:46 and read 22759 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 232):
Well, as I said, it is conjecture. No one here has any idea where MH370 and its cargo (people and belly cargo) are, or in what state. Nearly 24 hrs has passed since the Malaysian PM's press conference, and it's all gone quiet again - there is another press conference scheduled today though.

You have to think within normal logic, statistical probability, and known facts. It is well known that the US military is paranoid about technology leaking out into China and letting Freescale China/Malaysia deal with US secrets without any security clearance and flying it on a passenger jet is bar none basically impossible.

There is conjecture and then there is 777 is a rocket plane conjecture.

We do have a rough idea of where the 777 is (the last sat ping is the likely last time the plane was intact) the plane is somewhere between those two points on the coverage map. The problem is finding where it was in between the two possible extremes before the ocean currents make it almost impossible to locate.

24 hours is not long enough to position ships, planes, and carry out a search of the magnitude required to cover than entire corridor (It is an unprecedented large area to search, it goes from Australia all the way into China and everything inbetween). The end points from my understanding are not the actual plane positions but the far extremes of where it might be. It is highly probable that the plane crashed somewhere in the waters between and I highly doubt 24 hours is enough time to find evidence.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: planesmart
Posted 2014-03-16 00:32:47 and read 22459 times.

After so many days, I would have thought that US forces have already identified the location of the aircraft and confirmed there are no survivors. And using FWF and others, perhaps even on Airliners, to see who refutes the supposedly inside info with accurate stuff, to identify others involved, if indeed there were any.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:33:04 and read 22412 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 233):
Traditionally, ELT's are notoriously unreliable...good idea in theory, but they don't always work in real life. I know of quite a few GA crashes where the ELT didn't activate for various reasons, or was unable to be picked up because, for example, the antenna broke during the crash.

If it did crash on land and people survived then the portable ELT beacons could be used. But historically that isn't something that is likely to occur in a passenger jet crash. I carry my own PLB but there are a number of highly probable reasons why people wouldn't be able to activate them. If your alive and standing in open terrain ELT beacons are quite reliable if those conditions are met.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2014-03-16 00:34:11 and read 22431 times.

I'm sorry if this has been posted before:


Malaysia Airline MH370: 9/11-style terror allegations resurface in case of lost plane

Possible plot investigated after Al-Qaeda supergrass told court that four or five Malaysian men planned a passenger airliner hijack

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...surface-in-case-of-lost-plane.html

http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-...-911style-plot-20140316-hvjdm.html


also:

Flight Trained Chinese passenger under investigation

A 35-year-old Chinese passenger are being investigated in Connection with the disappearance of the aircraft from Malaysia Airlines.

The man belongs to the Uighur minority in China, and in 2006 he trained in a flight simulator in Sweden, writes The Sydney Morning Herald.

He is currently not suspected to have been behind the hijacking of the missing plane, but investigated as the other passengers on the plane, writes the newspaper.

Translation from Norwegian article:

http://www.nrk.no/verden/kinesisk-passasjer-etterforskes-1.11608842

[Edited 2014-03-16 00:41:20]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:35:14 and read 22302 times.

Quoting planesmart (Reply 238):
After so many days, I would have thought that US forces have already identified the location of the aircraft and confirmed there are no survivors. And using FWF and others, perhaps even on Airliners, to see who refutes the supposedly inside info with accurate stuff, to identify others involved, if indeed there were any.

US forces can't watch ever square meter (feet) of the world and even though they have surveillance sats (ones that can even detect explosions) if a plane crashes into the water it can be very hard to locate. The ocean is a big place and a 777 is tiny compared to it. (even the waters where the satcom pings place it is a very large area to cover)

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:37:06 and read 22088 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 240):
A 35-year-old Chinese passenger are being investigated in Connection with the disappearance of the aircraft from Malaysia Airlines.

The man belongs to the Uighur minority in China, and in 2006 he trained in a flight simulator in Sweden, writes The Sydney Morning Herald.

He is currently not suspected to have been behind the hijacking of the missing plane, but investigated as the other passengers on the plane, writes the newspaper.

I don't have the link still but in the previous threads it seems like the news agencies are not reading things right. He worked as a researcher into simulations (not even plane simulators) and is more into bio-tech than plane tech. Unless there was another passenger that isn't the same one.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2014-03-16 00:38:10 and read 22200 times.

I had a chilling thought. We do not not know what happened to the plane, or why. But lets assume, as the authorities seem to do, that the aircraft was hijacked by a person who was capable of controlling its systems and flight.

Perhaps the captain. And that captain is a well-known aviation enthusiast, spending a lot of his time in simulators even at home.

Lets further assume that the hijacking was not a suicide mission, and the plane actually landed somewhere and is now hidden.

If so, maybe the captain is back on the ground. Was he an a.nut? He could be reading this thread. Maybe even commenting.

(Captain: if you are reading this - please return the passengers asap!)

The other thought that I had was that if it was indeed the sim-captain, one plausible explanation for his actions might be that he wanted the ultimate simulator ride. Evade the radars, fly high, fly low, etc. Not the boring day-in-day-out uneventful routes. If that indeed would be his motivation, any guesses on what that ultimate ride might have been, and would it give us any clues as to where to search?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-16 00:38:11 and read 21962 times.

Has possible hacking by plane sploit been discussed already?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:42:55 and read 21614 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 244):

Has possible hacking by plane sploit been discussed already?

Hacking the flight control system isn't likely to be possible from what I've read. (If they used a shared IP network then I would say it is guaranteed to be hacked but that doesn't appear to be the case)

http://www.davi.ws/avionics/TheAvionicsHandbook_Cap_11.pdf
http://www.citemaster.net/get/147283...b63-00163e009cc7/yeh98_777-fbw.pdf
http://www2.cs.uidaho.edu/~krings/CS449/Notes.F09/449-09-27.pdf

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: studedave
Posted 2014-03-16 00:43:04 and read 21685 times.

Quoting davidzill (Reply 158):
Where would they park in Diego Garcia? Next to the B-52, B-2, or the B-1? Highly unlikely it even got close to Diego Garcia, same goes for Guam.

There is a BUNCH of flight line on DG.
Hangars big enough to hide a 777~ not so much...




StudeDave

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2014-03-16 00:43:38 and read 21775 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 242):
I don't have the link still but in the previous threads it seems like the news agencies are not reading things right.

Here you go:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-...ghur-passenger-20140313-hvifh.html

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: JettTracer
Posted 2014-03-16 00:43:56 and read 21758 times.

***Opinion***
I still think there is something/ someone important in the plane that lead to this flight being diverted and landed.
It may be a covert operations thus we will not have the details.

Regarding the affiliation of the pilot to the Opposition, it is illogical to down a plane with 239 people on board just because the Court decision is not in favour. What purpose is the action? Will it change the Court's decision?

The pilot having FS, should not be a reason, for him to hijack the plane.
Unless there is someone on board, who is more "authorised", to fly the plane.
This is just my opinion, so to speak.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:45:24 and read 21591 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 247):

No there is another more detailed article which says they were using the CV of one of the passengers but it only lists electrical engineering and bio-tech stuff. His work in Sweden was not on a plane simulator.

Edit: someone even posted the CV link on here I think.

[Edited 2014-03-16 00:45:54]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: ushermittwoch
Posted 2014-03-16 00:51:24 and read 21122 times.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 243):
The other thought that I had was that if it was indeed the sim-captain, one plausible explanation for his actions might be that he wanted the ultimate simulator ride. Evade the radars, fly high, fly low, etc. Not the boring day-in-day-out uneventful routes. If that indeed would be his motivation, any guesses on what that ultimate ride might have been, and would it give us any clues as to where to search?

This sounds like the most plausible explanation I have read on here since it has been confirmed that there was a deviation of from the original flight path.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Owleye
Posted 2014-03-16 00:51:48 and read 20995 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 245):

Maybe the plane was already been hacked and pre-programmed before the flight...

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: monjonman
Posted 2014-03-16 00:58:18 and read 21097 times.

Possibly the captain had some sort of mental breakdown and thought he was flying the simulator!
We all have our breaking points and perhaps that was his fantasy to fly under the radar !

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 00:58:51 and read 21082 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 251):
Maybe the plane was already been hacked and pre-programmed before the flight...

The pilots can turn off the flight control computer if it was really that bad (doubtful) and their inputs would be direct unless they managed to hack the ADCs (analog to digital converter) and sensors (extremely unlikely). You can't exactly hack a circuit breaker. The ACE wouldn't have the computational guts (hardware) to fly the plane without the PFC so even if you hacked the ACE it would just crash directly if the pilots turned off the PFC. The ACE just deals with the ADC, DAC, and some basic hardware stuff but without the primary flight computers the plane wouldn't know how to follow the hacked route.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: seb146
Posted 2014-03-16 00:59:42 and read 21054 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 226):
. Freescale wouldn't for a second design a consumer electronic device which could say also guide a missile.

Why couldn't they be developing devices for military use? Who do they have contracts with?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: LandSweetLand
Posted 2014-03-16 01:01:45 and read 20899 times.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 106):
I forgot to mention that I am also a Muslim... I enjoy smoking in aircraft cockpits when they allow me, and yes, I love chatting women up in the cockpit too (but usually the FAs). I wonder if that makes people conclude more that I did it...

Well you're here replying, so I assume not. Unless of course you landed and went to an internet cafe somewhere. (cue spooky music)

Quoting davidzill (Reply 197):
Rumor has it that police returned to the Captains house and left with several items subsequent to verifying the voice checking out with Malaysian ATC.

Answering machine?

Quoting k83713 (Reply 200):
So now everyone is free again to choose his religion: whether it's Northern route or Southern route. Level of evidence for any of them is about the same...

True. I guess the main thing to make me think north, is that the supposed radar blips had it heading northish.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 209):
A significant amount of those on board were Chinese citizens; killing them would be an act of war...would Iran really risk that???

It doesn't matter which country it is. If (and until more is confirmed it's still an if) it's terrorists I doubt they care. Terrorism is about causing terror. If a truck bomber has to shoot someone so they can get past a check point before blowing up a building full of people, then surely for them it's just part of the job.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 01:02:19 and read 20812 times.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 254):
Why couldn't they be developing devices for military use? Who do they have contracts with?

Their sensitive US military contracts are probably all done mostly in the states. China/Malaysia Freescale are separate divisions which mainly work on what China/Malaysia do a lot of consumer electronics. I already posted a Freescale military engineer job posting and you should read the requirements (none of the 20 would even get past automatic screening) and location (US).

Mixing consumer stuff with intentional dual use can lead to messy regulations which a consumer division wouldn't ever want to get close to as it can be far too much trouble to deal with.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: LandSweetLand
Posted 2014-03-16 01:07:39 and read 20481 times.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 254):
Why couldn't they be developing devices for military use? Who do they have contracts with?

Page 2 of this freescale pdf makes it clear they're perfectly happy to have products used for military use.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: LLA001
Posted 2014-03-16 01:09:24 and read 20287 times.

I have a question about fuel expenditure,

If we assume the airplane flew low to avoid any radar detection, what would be the airplanes fuel expenditure rate compared to flying at high altitude?

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 01:12:05 and read 20060 times.

Quoting LandSweetLand (Reply 257):
Page 2 of this freescale pdf makes it clear they're perfectly happy to have products used for military use.

Wrong, you didn't notice the little red box around the ones they focus on. They are all ARM processors which is a licensed thing something anyone can get the spec for if they pay for it.

The military one the PX Series MCUs is based on the power processor architecture which is a US based design from guess who (IBM, Freescale US, ...).

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: slinky09
Posted 2014-03-16 01:13:25 and read 19984 times.

Quoting tomlee (Reply 237):
It is well known that the US military is paranoid about technology leaking out into China

I never said anything along those lines ...

Quoting tomlee (Reply 237):
The problem is finding where it was in between the two possible extremes before the ocean currents make it almost impossible to locate.
Quoting tomlee (Reply 241):
even the waters where the satcom pings place it is a very large area to cover

You presume then a southerly track and ditching in the sea. Yet there is no evidence for that and efforts appear to be concentrated to the north?

Quoting LandSweetLand (Reply 255):
Answering machine?

If it really has taken eight days to do that it beggers belief, I'd like to assume that the captains voice has already been corroborated. But then the investigators are pretty tight lipped about anything, they have not confirmed (perhaps they don't even know) how much fuel was on the plane even, so while best guesses can be made based on intended flight path, that's not confirmed.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: tomlee
Posted 2014-03-16 01:14:50 and read 20078 times.

The US military is very concerned about MCU's origin. The kinesis family as all ARM Based, read the PDF and the link below.

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/homepage.jsp?code=KINETIS

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-16 01:16:24 and read 19640 times.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 260):
But then the investigators are pretty tight lipped about anything, they have not confirmed (perhaps they don't even know) how much fuel was on the plane even, so while best guesses can be made based on intended flight path, that's not confirmed.

This suggests it would be good to have a press conference at which some informed, analytical questions were asked.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2014-03-16 01:16:26 and read 19819 times.

Apparently the captain was very involved in politics:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: timothy31388
Posted 2014-03-16 01:19:33 and read 19574 times.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 263):

Quite a well known fact.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: rdu2sfo
Posted 2014-03-16 01:22:56 and read 19276 times.

I do not buy at all the idea that this plane went to Iran, regardless of what or who was on it. The theory that the plane went to Iran relies on the Iranian government having some, at least tacit, involvement. That is highly, highly unlikely with regard to a plane bound for China that inevitably would have many Chinese citizens on board.

The geopolitical fall out of Iranian involvement would be massive, and simply not worth the risk for the Iranian government. By this I don't mean potential war. I mean that at the current time it is very important for Iran that China maintains a relatively neutral position with regard to the nuclear issue. Iranian involvement in this plane's disappearance would make it very likely that China's position on the nuclear issue would shift, which would be devastating for Iran.

Also, I don't really give much credibility to tweets based on a U.S. DHS source. A situation involving a hijacked plane flown to Iran for purposes of obtaining something of value on the plane is above DHS's pay grade. DHS would not be significantly involved with such an investigation on the US side.

[Edited 2014-03-16 01:25:21]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: Dalavia
Posted 2014-03-16 01:29:47 and read 18711 times.

Quoting rdu2sfo (Reply 265):
I do not buy at all the idea that this plane went to Iran, regardless of what or who was on it. The theory that the plane went to Iran relies on the Iranian government having some, at least tacit, involvement. That is highly, highly unlikely with regard to a plane bound for China that inevitably would have many Chinese citizens on board.

I agree. Like you I can't see Iran being involved in this. It is by no means a rogue state.

Therefore, the question arises... given what we know about the dynamics of the flight (as described over 28 threads!!!), where might the plane have landed? Is there some territory somewhere where government control is weak but which might still have an airfield capable of receiving a 777?

Off the top of my head, I can't think of anywhere, and yet the indicators suggest EITHER that such a place exists OR that some government somewhere is involved.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: 777Jet
Posted 2014-03-16 01:33:24 and read 18396 times.

I wonder if they have been able to verify who / which pilot was talking to ATC yet, especially who was the last person talking to ATC? The owner of the voice who last spoke to ATC was obviously in the cockpit moments before the transponder stopped. Was it the same person talking to ATC the entire duration of the flight? I would expect them to know this by now and either place one of the pilots or somebody unknown in the cockpit...

[Edited 2014-03-16 01:56:29]

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: pvjin
Posted 2014-03-16 01:43:57 and read 17612 times.

Quoting rdu2sfo (Reply 265):
I do not buy at all the idea that this plane went to Iran, regardless of what or who was on it. The theory that the plane went to Iran relies on the Iranian government having some, at least tacit, involvement. That is highly, highly unlikely with regard to a plane bound for China that inevitably would have many Chinese citizens on board.

I agree, I'll eat my hat if Iran was involved. They simply have no motive whatsoever & they aren't a crazy rogue state.

I think this was something done by an individual, or some group, and that the plane isn't in one piece anymore.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2014-03-16 01:44:42 and read 17568 times.

Quoting rdu2sfo (Reply 265):

I do not buy at all the idea that this plane went to Iran, regardless of what or who was on it. The theory that the plane went to Iran relies on the Iranian government having some, at least tacit, involvement. That is highly, highly unlikely with regard to a plane bound for China that inevitably would have many Chinese citizens on board.

The geopolitical fall out of Iranian involvement would be massive, and simply not worth the risk for the Iranian government. By this I don't mean potential war. I mean that at the current time it is very important for Iran that China maintains a relatively neutral position with regard to the nuclear issue. Iranian involvement in this plane's disappearance would make it very likely that China's position on the nuclear issue would shift, which would be devastating for Iran.

Also, I don't really give much credibility to tweets based on a U.S. DHS source. A situation involving a hijacked plane flown to Iran for purposes of obtaining something of value on the plane is above DHS's pay grade. DHS would not be significantly involved with such an investigation on the US side.

The more that i look at it, the Iran theory doesn't really fit. FWF did say DHS sent him a map with the search area being all of China. So it looks like the Northern track is what investigators are looking at...but where in China is there a field that can receive a 777 without the Chinese government not knowing about it.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: MillwallSean
Posted 2014-03-16 01:57:51 and read 16802 times.

So we have a person that has been proven to be a compulsive liar and his tweets are now whats used for analysis? Hmm, logic went out of the window on this one.

No a plane cant land in Iran without the world knowing about it, especially not close to the nuclear reactors as was indicated.

Also Freescale isn't exactly revolutionary, nor is its factory in PJ top secret. To the contrary, its pretty basic stuff that any foreign power could get their hands on through the civilian market and if nessescary due to sanction through a small and well placed bribe.
These employees aren't worth a hijack. Someone else on the plane might have been, even if i really doubt it, but not a Freescale PJ employee.

And the idea that China should have taken the plane is even more farfetched.
Have you been in Malaysia? China can get alot in Malaysia if they so want. And its not like the chinese in Malaysia arent used to a culture where bribery is normality.
The persons guarding these cargo's earn what?
They would have thrown some money around and any shift manager at the KLIA cargo department would have driven the load to them themselves.

And if someone really wanted a passenger on the plane, why not abduct him/her in Malaysia? Why take down a full aircraft. Doesn't make sense.

Lets face it we know the plane flew on for a certain time after final contact, but we don't know where it flew or who flew it. All we can say is where it didn't fly and Id put Iran and China on that list.

But all points to the plane being somewhere on the bottom of an ocean and all clues points to the passengers dying a tragic death. Wild speculation and pretending to have inside info doesnt help grieving families.

Topic: RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28
Username: SA7700
Posted 2014-03-16 02:01:22 and read 17266 times.

Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. Please feel free to continue the discussion in part 29 which is available here:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 29 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Thanks and regards,

SA7700


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