Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/642198/

Topic: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: JETPILOT
Posted 2001-11-15 22:25:20 and read 2276 times.

The V stab on N14053 sufferd damage thought to be caused by turbulence back in 1988.

An inspection of the V stab uncovered delamination of the composite structure just above the attatchment bolts that hold the V stab to the airframe.

The delamination was repaired using doublers. But no increassed inspections were deamed necessary for the repair beyond the normal schedualed maintenance.

Makes you wonder.....

JET

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: Boeingfan
Posted 2001-11-15 22:28:26 and read 2189 times.

Jetpilot,

What is the source of the new info? Delamination, that is a new theory.

Thanks,

Bf.

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: JETPILOT
Posted 2001-11-15 22:30:26 and read 2175 times.

Got this info from a friend who is an AA mechanic at JFK.

JET

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: Voodoo
Posted 2001-11-15 22:55:52 and read 2140 times.

Well if this is true it goes to the top of the list of possibilities IMO......

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: Fishmeal
Posted 2001-11-15 23:00:44 and read 2125 times.

The website ' www.aviatonnow.com ' has that delamination information in it's lead article today.

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: Fishmeal
Posted 2001-11-15 23:02:40 and read 2111 times.

Correct that: it's 'www.aviationnow.com' that has the article with the delamination details included.

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2001-11-16 01:51:49 and read 2046 times.

I'll say this though: this will guarantee that airlines will do much more serious close inspections of composite structural parts of the plane.

The aging of composite parts has been of some concern to me, since there isn't the long track record of parts aging like you have you metal structural components.

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: JETPILOT
Posted 2001-11-16 01:56:22 and read 2052 times.

Looks like the info was accurate...for all I know my buddy might have gotten it from a news article....

This isnt an aging of composites issue...if the repair would be at fault then it would be a repair issue.

Tails arent falling off unrepaired A300's.

JET

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: D L X
Posted 2001-11-16 02:06:43 and read 2030 times.

Hmmm... the entire 380 wing is supposedly going to be made from this stuff...

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: JETPILOT
Posted 2001-11-16 02:08:28 and read 2037 times.

Its good stuff......this may be a faulty repair

JET

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2001-11-16 02:20:08 and read 2018 times.

D L X,

Wrongo. The A380's wing will be mostly metal. I believe the composite structures will be the tail surfaces (vertical tail and horizontal stabilizers).

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: D L X
Posted 2001-11-16 02:40:13 and read 1998 times.

JET, I know it's good stuff, but repairs will be inevitable. Maybe you can shed some light on this (you fly A300s, right?) but, you can't really repair composites, I thought. You have to replace them, or they'll never be as strong as they were.


Ray, how sure on you about this? I clearly recall reading that it would be a mostly composite, one-piece wing. And that some airlines (and forumites) were complaing about it. Is this a change?

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: TEDSKI
Posted 2001-11-16 03:16:48 and read 1976 times.

I say the bolts that held the vertical stabilizer to the aircraft were badly corroded and broke off from the heavy turbulence caused by that JAL 747 that took off before it.

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: VC-10
Posted 2001-11-16 03:21:06 and read 1968 times.

My understanding is the bolts are still attached to the aft fuselage

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: TEDSKI
Posted 2001-11-16 03:26:06 and read 1968 times.

If there is a problem with the vertical stabilizer on the A300 which will require worldwide inspections, they will have to include the A310, A330, & A340 which have identical tail sections.

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: JETPILOT
Posted 2001-11-16 05:06:50 and read 1953 times.

TEDSKI....

This is not a manufacturing defect....but a repair that was made to a damaged V stab....therefore this situation is unique to N14503.

JET

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: M27
Posted 2001-11-16 05:48:15 and read 1929 times.

It would seem that if the stablizer suffered damage in 1988 as the orginal post said, it would be known if it was from turbulence and not just thought to be. Also, why did damage occur the first time? Was the turbulence so great that it caused the damage, or was there an orginal manufacturing defect? If it was just due to turbulence, then you must be saying that turbulence encountered the day of the crash was much les than the orginal encounter, and the repair made it not capable of withstanding even this amount, otherwise it would make no difference whether it was repaired or a brand new one was installed.

You said it suffered delamination then, so it may have suffered delamination this time. Jetpilot your statement that it was a repair falt (though well it may be) is just speculation at this point. I don't know the cause yet, and neither do you.

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: JETPILOT
Posted 2001-11-16 07:34:01 and read 1900 times.

M27...Im just reporting the news as I get it....in no way shape or form did I make any such statement that this was the cause of the accident......

I said it was just something to THINK ABOUT. Read the post slowly next time.

You need to read "all" my posts in order to see the context of my last post.

Anyhow latest word I have is that the V stab broke off above the repair point..... I've got pics of the v stab attatchment points after the crash but dont know how to post them...sorry.

JET

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: Chicago
Posted 2001-11-16 07:49:23 and read 1888 times.

These pix from the NTSB site tell it all....

http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2001/AA587/tailcomp.htm

Compare with this schematic from the Wash. Post to put the pictures in perspective....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/graphics/crash_111501.html

It's clear that there was a massive failure to the composite mounting points on the vert. stabilizer.

Topic: RE: AA N14053 Vertical Stab Suffers Previous Damage
Username: M27
Posted 2001-11-16 08:21:24 and read 1882 times.

Jetpilot:

I believe I understand what you are saying. That this one aircraft is unique, and if a failure results due to this repair, then of course it would not in anyway relate to any other line no. I will admit that as I read through the posts, that I lost some perspective to whom, and to what you were replying to exactly, and for that I apologize.

I will take the statement that you made that tails aren't
falling off unrepaired A300s' as a general statement and not that you meant it to mean that the repair must be the reason beyond doubt that this tragic event happened. As I said, it may well be a repair falt, but I believe that can't be said for sure at this time, and that is what I thought you were promoting.

Regards


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/