http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/kitv/20020511/lo/1191548_1.html

If the magic wand sounded when it was waived at his shoes, then she should have taken his shoes off. Plain and simple. It only takes a couple of minutes. And I'm sure it was probably just his shoe buckle or something. Now everything is probably going to suspect he was hiding something.

I wonder what will happen with this Pilot, will he loose his job? I hope not, I mean we all have bad days too you know! Just takes one thing to push us over the edge. And I think that screener is milking it a bit, oueeww a coat sleeve to the eye, how many times has that happened to you in your life, yeah it stings, but 3 minutes later you eye is fine. G'me a break! Let the man go, for heaven sakes!!

I think it's a bit ambitious to expect that everyone will be cheerful and cooperative 100% of the time, particularly the flight crews who have to endure this day in, day out. I sometimes get irritated too, and I don't fly every day as they do.

I don't know the answer, but you can't just arrest people for not being nice. Eventually, we'll all be in jail!

Pete

Flight attendants and pilots go through this everyday. Even non-revs

I went on vacation and evertime I boarded the airplane, especially in HNL, I was selected. I found the screeners in HNL a little rude and showed very little regard for people and thier belongings.

I am not condoning the actions of this pilot, I was not there to witness it, but after a while you get tired of it all.

When I asked the gate agent (not the screener) why I was being selected she said that non-revs and the crew are especially pron to searches.

If we as crew members have to go through this everytime, why don't the caters, baggage loaders and the rampers go through the same thing?

Just my question.

Flight attendants and pilots go through this everyday. Even non-revs

Absolutely agree with this.

I went on vacation and evertime I boarded the airplane, especially in HNL, I was selected. I found the screeners in HNL a little rude and showed very little regard for people and thier belongings.

This seems to depend on who works the security area when you show up. sometimes, it is good, sometimes not.

I am not condoning the actions of this pilot, I was not there to witness it, but after a while you get tired of it all.

Absolutely.

When I asked the gate agent (not the screener) why I was being selected she said that non-revs and the crew are especially pron to searches.

My theory about this is because we are "easy" and have a greater need to keep "quiet" if we do not want our jobs threatened.

If we as crew members have to go through this everytime, why don't the caters, baggage loaders and the rampers go through the same thing?

Here is where you lost me. We do go through this day in and day out (at least at DFW, we do). I used to take my shoes off to make passage easier, but was getting the "random" search about 3 out of 5 days of the workweek. Now, I just keep the shoes on,beep everyday,and deal with it. Actually, for increased safety onboard, I recommend that every employee wear something that makes that thing beep. Then, the security screeners will be forced to do a random search on a passenger, because they will be all that is left to select.

NonRevMan
I am in MIA and its just what I see here.
The cateres come with the extra cart and the agent just waves them on, same thing with the rampers but when we (the crew) turn up soemtimes I feel like I have to leave a DNA sample just to get on.

I am all for extra security but there has to be a balance somewhere out there.

I am just having a bad day, pay no attention to me rambling on.

I had a co-pilot tell me that when he, his wife, and 5 year old son were returning from vacation that they were selected to be searched at the gate. His 5 year old had a G.I. Joe doll. Well G.I. Joe has guns, and other weapons. These weapons were seized by these highly qualified, highly trained, well respected security professionals. The 5 year old was in tears, and could not understand why his toys were being taken away. Neither can I.

Some security screener are total idiots.

Before each cleaner climbs the Jetway to the plane, they're screened, which I understand, but us ground crew workers are never screened. Every one in a while, right in the middle of me doing my job, a screener will come up and insist to wave the metal detector past me or my colleauges. I just don't get it.

I'm sure that pilot didn't mean any harm, but when you put a necktie on a G.E.D.-educated screener, they think they're almighty and above everyone else.

At the very least, the pilot should have to pay the full cost of the delayed flight. That will teach him some humility.

It will be interesting to see whether the pilot is exonerated. I hope the video indicates that the searcher was rude and that the search was more like harassment. All things equal, I want to go with the pilot in this case. For Pete's sake, he's a senior captain with AA. Leave his shoes alone!

Some security personnel screw with the flightcrew. I've felt like this guy many times.

Well, let's not draw conclusions. Perhaps the pilot was being difficult, or it could have been the security guy. Or both.

Since 9/11 I have seen many times pilots and copilots get a complete and thorough going over by the screeners. some of the screeners even have a smirk on their face, unable to even communicate in any thing other than one sylable words. I just pass it off as jealousy and envy on the screeners part towards the flight crew. For after all the flights crews are better paid, better educated with many benefits that the screeners lack in their profession. Its a sad scene and a sad state of affairs.

Addi375-After reading your comments, I asked my husband(he works for Delta) why this happens, also because the same thing has happened to me in the past frequently. He said that because we as no-revs have last minute check-ins and usually one way boarding cards, the computer is programmed to "spit" out our names. When I have gone through these problems at security points, I asked one time(in MCO-very nice people I dealt with down there) why this might be happening. The supervisor there told me, now this is find of funny, that because my carry-on bag is black leather the checkers have been told to be on alert to these kinds of bags. Don't know why, but they are. What do you guys think of that?

Just another example of how the United States has turned into a nation of paranoid, bedwetting cowards, fearful that there's a towel head lurking around every corner. How pathetic. America needs a healthy dose of COURAGE.

What will the screeners do if the pilots are authorized to carry guns. "Excuse me sir. Would you kindly put that .45 on the counter and pass through the metal detector." Like a pilot needs a gun to take over an airplane. All he, or she, need do is wait for the other cockpit crew to go take a piss then simply lock the door. VOILA! Aircraft in hands of nefarious person.
I agree with PROSA on this.

What will the screeners do if the pilots are authorized to carry guns. "Excuse me sir. Would you kindly put that .45 on the counter and pass through the metal detector." Like a pilot needs a gun to take over an airplane. All he, or she, need do is wait for the other cockpit crew to go take a piss then simply lock the door. VOILA! Aircraft in hands of nefarious person.

I suppose that risk could be minimized somewhat by having a F/A wait in the cockpit while the other crew member answers the call of nature. But it won't eliminate the risk - the nefarious crew member need only wait until the F/A is someone he can physically overpower. I sort of suspect that the typical female F/A is no match physically for the typical pilot or first officer.

That AA Captain need some ZOLOFT to calm himself down after all this happened..... What do you think......?

baec

If he threw his shoes and really did hurt the screener, then anyone else doing the same thing would also probably be arrested. The fact that he's in uniform should rightly make his immature behavior more suspicious to security people. Also, I don't know for sure, but more than likely he just finished a "tough" overnight at a Honolulu hotel before flying back to Dallas. Also, he likely works 10-12 days a month at most.

So, we're supposed to feel sympathy that this guy has a stressful job and is sick of its many hassles? This same guy would have no problem throwing anyone off his plane and having them arrested if someone threw their shoes at flightcrew. He's just a childish jackass who deserves what he gets.

kind regards,

RogueTrader

true! the pilot can take over the plane, he might not need to do that because he is already in control. I guess, that they should go easy on pilots. If they take me out as a flight attendant, i don't mind.. but pilots.. well seems stupid to me

Thanks for the explanation Skyhawk.


When I was leaving on vacation this is what happened, now I want someone to tell me if this is not just a little out there......my two bags (the carry one plus my tote), They both have my crew tags on and I have my ID on clearly displayed. Now I just bought a cup of coffee so I had my little waist bag out. The big fat stupid red-neck (please forgive that comment) told me that he wasnt letting me through because I had 3 pieces. He stopped me and held up the line so that I could open my bag and put my little fanny pack in the bag. Yeah I feel safe with Bubba looking out at things.

Coming home at the gate as usual I was the last one to get a boarding pass and the screener decided she was going to take out everything out my bags and go through them. I got the boarding pass and it took me another 20 mins to get on the airplane. The purser came out and wanted to know what was going on. He told me not to worry about it because it happened to him the other day.

Another incident.......there was a no show F/A for one of my flights and flilght attendant ops sent a standby f/a to take her place. Now I guess no one advised the gate of what was going on but when the new F/A turned up, the screener would not let the gate agent let him on the flight.

I dont know what point I am trying to make here, but I guess I just had to vent and let it out because it all just annoys me.

I hope I offended no one with my comments above and I definately do not want to stur up a hornets nest.

Addi375,

I hear you   By far, you will not be alone in the security rants. Count me in.

Likely, most of us dont have a problem with the needed increase in security measures. The problem is that the new measures are proving to be nothing but a knee jerk reaction that is either targeting the wrong people or not even helping at all. This is what is angering so many people.

As for the pilot, it would be hard to make an assumption of what happened unless we all saw the video.

Maybe security can actually be improved to where it does look for signs of trouble. I have no problem with a true random search, because no one could assume that they would have a greater/lesser chance of being selected. Also, if people could be trained to look for truly suspicious behavior instead of taking some kid's GI Joe toy away from him, or taking someone's medal of honor, or making someone drink his science project, things would maybe get better.

AMEN
Thank NonRevMan.

To me, the whole thing is a big joke. I see these screeners everyday and this is what you get when you have a position when the minimum education requirement is a GED. So as not to come off as being a snob, let me say right here and now that there is nothing wrong with having a GED or anything wrong with the person who has a GED BUT you get what you pay for.

Screen the screeners. Dont give them the job just because they are a citizen. And for heavens sake, give them the proper training.

Please I am begging, do not put Bubba in a uniform because this just makes it worst. No more Barny Fife complex please.

I agree with everything that's been said. As a poster who flies for American Eagle put it here once, he's the PILOT OF THE PLANE, for Christ's sake. Why check his shoes? It doesn't make a difference if he's got a weapon, because he's already got control of the plane!

Just another instance of feel-good security measures taken too far.

And a word on federalization of airport security: What's that gonna do? The federal government can't even count votes in Florida correctly (not to mention the 18 different definitions of "child" in the federal tax code), much less run a highly scientific airport security operation. I think we let feel-good but futile "security measures" cause us to lose sight of the forest for the trees.

Just my $0.025 worth.

I totally sympathize with this pilot. In my opinion he shouldn't be charged with anything.

It gets old after a while when you're stopped at every security station at every airport you go to and you're searched at every "random" screening. I'd love to see you people not get frustrated by being frisked 20 times at 10 different airports. Not even prisons do that.

I have never been "randomly" screened, except for this last Sunday when the security guard saw my flight bag adorned with ALPA & AOPA stickers on it.

I firmly believe that the security screeners have it out for pilots and flight crews for a reason that is none other than pure jealousy. Since the people manning these security stations aren't going to change (meaning we will still have the same screeners that were in place well before Sept. 11), it will only get worse when they try to push the envelope even futher.

- Neil Harrison

April 25, 2002 (UPI International)

Kansas City – An American Airlines flight enroute from
Los Angeles to JFK airport in New York City was diverted to Kansas City yesterday when a passenger was noticed attempting to light a fuse protruding from his rectum. Flight Attendant Bunny Haggarty said she noticed the man seated in an aisle seat leaning forward and holding a cigarette lighter behind his legs. “I
though he was just trying to light a fart,” said Haggarty, “like our pilots are always doing on layovers.”

“Then I saw this string-like thing hanging from his ass, and I got scared.” Haggarty immediately called for assistance. Several male passengers subdued the man before he was able to light the fuse.

After landing in Kansas City, authorities found the man’s intestines were stuffed with military grade C4 explosive. FBI agents stated that it would
have been a complete catastrophe if the passenger had succeeded in lighting the fuse. The passenger, Mohammed Bin Ali El Batout Nabeel Sin Abba Rahim Mansour Ali Baba, Age 25, was carrying fourteen passports from various countries throughout the middle east. Asked why he had stuffed himself full of plastic
explosives, Ali Baba stated, “I was planning to blow the chit out of the plane.”

“I wanted to kill all the Americans and Jews to show that we are a peace loving pipple.”

Airport security agents in Los Angeles remembered
seeing Ali Baba as he boarded American flight 90. They were a bit concerned because his name would not fit on the front of the ticket, he was wearing a checkered tablecloth as a hat, looked like he was ready to kill someone, was reading an Al Qaeda training manual and had on a “Fuck America” teeshirt. According to Federal
Airport Security standards, however, individuals cannot be profiled for additional security simply because they are young, middle-eastern men.

The security supervisor, Leroy Jackson, said he was somewhat concerned with the way Ali Baba walked. “Hell, man, the guy waddled like he had a stick of dynamite up his ass!”

“Had I not been on the phone with my probation
officer, I might have checked this guy out some more.” “But, we want and need complete diversity in our passenger screening,” stated Jackson. “Plus, we think the flight crews on those planes pose more of a threat to safety than one raghead with an exploding ass.” “That’s why you can always find one of them pilots in barefeet waiting for his shoes to be x-rayed. I love seeing the look on their faces when we make them do that,” he guffawed, adding “I just hope they don’t give those guys guns, ‘cause they might want to even
the score.”

Federal officials are now referring to this latest
terrorist attempt as a ‘butt bomb’. Security experts believe this could be even more difficult to detect than the primitive ‘shoe bomb’ used by terrorist Richard Reid. “I’m not sure how were going to check for ‘butt bombs’,” stated Jackson. “We don’t have technology to do it, but we’ve got to check somehow in the interest of safety,” adding, “I think we should start with Flight Crews first.”

HAHAHAHAHA

badoom tsh!

hooroo
DAQ

I was on a flight from LAX to HNL recently. Had a black carry on bag full of presents. Went through security one without problems. Just right before boarding, I had to go through security again. The agent opened the bag and saw the presents nicely wrapped. Insisted to re-xray the bag again. I told her, "It went through the x-ray machine once already. It hasn't been out of my sight. What will you gain by making it through the x-ray again." She insisted, so I complied. I sometime wonder why airports are hiring these idiots to be screeners. Perhaps this is why security is so shitty in our airports. I should had been nasty and opened the presents one by one to let her search, and rewrap them one by one to hold the line up.

GI Joe's weapons were taken from the crying child because the regulations state that "toy weapons" are prohibited items. This is a federal rule and the screener was only complying. I am not a security screener (fortunately! I'd be crazy within a week!!) but I have to sympathise with them. They are constantly being watched and if they fail to comply with a regulation they are the ones that get in trouble for it. Pilots and other crew members need to understand that these people are doing their jobs and while I have encountered some very unpleasant screeners lately I don't believe that everyone is out to get me! As for your wrapped gifts being re-xrayed this was also in compliance with the law. Screeners at boarding gates have to complete a bag check just the same as those at the checkpoints! I think this is very repetitive and doesn't say much for the trust the FAA has in security screeners but once again if the gate screener does not check the entire contents of a bag it is them who has to deal with the consequences! I also do not believe in any way that screeners are out to get any of us "pilots"--there is a randomness in the screening process and some of us just aren't lucky!
While I can understand all sides I feel that many of you don't understand the screeners positions. They are only complying with the laws to keep their jobs! I think that the pilot had every right to be frustrated, but he handled himself very poorly and unprofessionally. I don't know that I would have boarded the flight with him if I had seen him throw his little "fit". Hope I haven't upset anyone here but I just wanted to contribute my 52 cents worth  

Sure hope that pilot gets released! BTW, do you know what type of aircraft he was suppossed to take back across the water?

-Dmitry

I was working on the ramp at DTW soon after they opened and brought all my suitcases with me so I could catch a late flight home after work. This moron woman at security would not let me through because "the items I was carrying are too big to carry on the plane", even though I was wearing all my uniform gear, had appropriate badges on and looked by all means like I belonged on the ramp that day. The moron at security then suggested that I swipe my badges through the door next to security. I only had a DTW visitor badge, that wouldn't work. Fortunately for me, a hub manager for Mesaba was behind me in line and swiped me through. So, instead of letting me through security with all my stuff, this lady basically told me to circumvent security altogether. What brain trusts they have there.

This whole "enhanced security" is a scam. I don't see what searching some 80 yr old grandma's bags from Iowa is going to do to make the air a safer place. I don't see why I can drive a whole truck through a security gate unsupervised (with only using my airport badge) while when I walk through on foot I basically have to take off all my clothes. Why are doors on jetways set so you can walk out to the ramp without any codes or keys, but to get back inside you need a code to open the door?

FA's have access to the cockpit and therefore they are in a good position to potentially hijack the plane, therefore they should be searched just like passengers are.

Pilot113,
That's a great post!!!

I am one of the last people to defend the new bizarre, often-poorly implemented, and seemingly random security measures that are a result of 9/11.

But for all the pilots, f/a's and others on this board who are saying the pilot did nothing wrong: Would your opinion change if it had been a random passenger throwing their shoes at the security screener?

I travel a lot, and yes, I've been searched at the secondary screening checkpoints. I get frustrated too. But no, I don't throw things and cause a hissy fit. The pilot was being a jerk (and this is only based on the info from the article).

You are acting like only pilots and flight crew go through these searches. Here's some news: It happens to everyone, and if EVERYONE threw temper tantrums because "(whining) I don't wanna take off my shoes" it would be a very crowded airport jail cell.

The pilot was scheduled to fly flight #8 back. I'm too lazy to look up the aircraft.

Thanks! I will go check to see which aircraft. And it is a 767 indeed.


-Dmitry

Someone who has access to that kind of information... let us know whether he looses his job or not!

Hank  

i see pilots and flight crews throw temper tantroms all day long.i hope this pilot gets what he deserves.these crews including a few reading this need to learn that just because you fly the plane doesnt mean your exempt from being checked.

these idiot pilots want the planes safe but dont want to sacrifice to have it.

just remember you pilots out there that you have to sometimes have you shoes removed take you coats off remove your hat and even have your flashlight checked.how hard is it to just let them do there jobs and be on your way?

we have had several pilots in talking with the police department and our station manager because they cant keep there mouths shut.

these screeners arent the smartest in the world but just let them do there jobs,dig what i'm sayin?




ual 777 contrail

I made this point earlier: The pilot is the PILOT, and has control of the plane. It doesn't matter if a pilot has a weapon or not (e.g. EgyptAir 990). Subjecting flight crew to the third degree at security checkpoints is asinine, and is a waste of time.

It's clear that flight crew should be screened, but save the intensive searches for passengers who could possibly brandish weapons.

Don't harass the shepherd when the wolf is eating the flock.

>>these idiot pilots want the planes safe but dont want to sacrifice to have it.

I'm all for tight security, but if you're going to apply it -- apply it to everyone.

I see this happen all the time. The flight crew is singled out for what is nothing short of a strip search while regular folk, some of who appear to be more of a threat, just merrily wander through security with nothing more than a glance by the security guard.

Perhaps the TSA should take their cues from the Secret Service. They know how to run security. They don't strip search police officers and allow civilians to wander through security. Don't tell me that it's different. It's not.

- Neil Harrison

If security screeners began to check anyone wearing a uniform more leniently than anyone else, I doubt it would take long for any dim-witted terrorist or other crackpot to figure out that all he needs to do to get something through the checkpoint is to sew a few stripes to a blue blazer and whip up a fake ID on the PC and voila, he's in.

I agree with RogueTrader. If the report of the pilot's behaviour is true, he deserved to be arrested. Security these days can be extremely frustrating and annoying, especially for crewmembers who have to endure it often several times a day, but that's no excuse to throw a tantrum. The screeners were just doing the job they are required to do. If indeed he acted as reported, this pilot's behaviour was unprofessional and childish in the extreme, and it reflects poorly on the airline and crewmembers in general.

That article says that the pilot threw his shoes up in the air. It doesn't say he hit the screener with them. Then it says the screener was hit in the eye, perhaps by the jacket sleeve, as he tried to put the shoes in a basket. Perhaps? Don't they know what they are accusing him of? Was the jacket on the pilot, or removed already and in the screener's hands? There is loads of wiggle room here as to what really went on, including the possibility that the screener was a total klutz.

I don't care if it is law, taking G.I Joes weapons from the 5yr old is plain stupid. Are you guys aware that the gun that GI Joe holds is just under 1 inch long and half an inch tall and made of plastic !!!

get a grip

Jeremy

artsyman,
like pilot1113 said that "i'm all for tight security,if your going to apply it-apply it for everyone"
that is why a 5 year olds gi-joe guns were takin from him.that includes 1" guns and 5" guns and the real thing.

they applied it to everyone and now some of you whine it is only a little kids guns,if you have rules you have to follow them.the pilot in the first place should have known.dont put the screener in the position of being the bad guy.dad(pilot)should have known.so it's his fault his little brat was crying .imo


ual 777 contail