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Topic: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: KL808
Posted 2002-06-25 03:35:26 and read 3010 times.

Since, UA, CO, US, DL, and NW fly to Amsterdam why doesnt American follow. Wouldnt a 767-300 from O'hare to Schipol be viable? Or maybe another city maybe Boston or Dallas, or Miami... etc.

thanks

drew

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Seatback
Posted 2002-06-25 03:44:56 and read 2988 times.

I thought AA announced service to AMS before 9/11 from ORD?

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2002-06-25 03:53:50 and read 2974 times.

AA announced ORD-AMS in 1999, only to cancel it.

ORD-AMS is already a crowded market with Northwest/KLM, United, Kuwait Airlines, Singapore Airlines, and I belive Royal Jordanian.

MIA-AMS is also well served with Northwest/KLM and Martinair, with as many as 3 flights a day on Saturdays starting this winter. However, as AA expands thier MIA hub, I do think they might want a piece of the pie in the future, because MIA-AMS is a very dense route. Though that is not until 2005/2006 at the earliest.

There is no DFW-AMS, service, however. That would be the best gateway to start AMS service from.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: ScottysAir
Posted 2002-06-25 04:21:25 and read 2949 times.

Hey Guys,

That was I knew were use fly on Northwest, and Martinair too were fly nonstop from MIA-AMS flight. And that was daily 1 roundtrip nonstop from MIA-AMS on NW. And some day were use on Martinair were flies to MIA, MCO flight. It was on the flight schedules as for myself. so hope this is your helps. Thanks!!!

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Blink182
Posted 2002-06-25 04:22:51 and read 2944 times.

I am a little surprised too. However, you must keep note that American only really flies to partner's hubs with a few exeptions. I guess American feels comfortable codesharing into AMS on a few of their partners. I am sure we will eventually see AA at AMS though.

blink

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: AMSMAN
Posted 2002-06-25 08:44:26 and read 2871 times.

Any AA 74 series would be a nice sight at AMS

AMSMAN

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Manni
Posted 2002-06-25 12:14:06 and read 2828 times.

AA chose BRU over AMS. Now way they will add more European destinations in the near future. Instead they've cancelled Stockholm, Rome and Milan. AA is more likely to add flights to existing stations in Europe if the demand is there.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Lj
Posted 2002-06-25 12:23:53 and read 2822 times.

Who wants to operate a service into an already saturated market?? Yields aren't attractive and market is already overcrowded.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: OO-VEG
Posted 2002-06-25 12:34:48 and read 2819 times.

If someone wants (and has the money) to penetrate the market they will do that and take the loss for granted. KLM started serving Philadelphia the same time US Airways did a few years ago, there was no market for it, but KLM did it to bully US Airways. This was the reason for US Airways to leave (no profit) and KLM hurried itself to cancel their flights as well.
US Airways has returned now but KLM didn't follow because of the timing of US Airways KLM couldn't afford to add a loss making route.

AA may want to do the same thing, eventually one of the airlines need to give up capacity/flights or the entire route leaving extra capacity for the competitors left, if AA knows they won't be the first to leave they can play it like that.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2002-06-25 16:02:53 and read 2760 times.

Manni,

AA serves Rome daily from ORD.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Arsenal@LHR
Posted 2002-06-25 16:39:49 and read 2733 times.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/440599/6/

Arsenal@LHR

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Donder10
Posted 2002-06-25 16:42:50 and read 2730 times.

Detroit is the main reason.It's a fortress.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: HlywdCatft
Posted 2002-06-25 16:49:38 and read 2724 times.

Yeah, there are 4 daily flights between DTW and AMS- One with a KLM MD-11, one with a 744 and two with DC-10s.

I notice a lot of connections at DTW are going to ORD.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Saxman66
Posted 2002-06-25 17:47:01 and read 2693 times.

AA needs DFW-AMS. KLM doesn't even fly here. DFW also needs more European Destinations.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: HUYfan
Posted 2002-06-25 17:53:35 and read 2683 times.

i think if UA had'nt opened their own AMS-ORD service, AA could have done well on the route, now though, it would surely fail. You have to remember that the AA brand in the Netherlands is virtually non existatnt along side NW.

I think the only routes with a possible good yeild and potential traffic are AMS-DFW or AMS-LAX, apart from this, i don't think anything else would work.

I have my money on AMS-DFW, daily 763. Would be a challenge for AA, but with marketing and a considerable amount of support stateside, could be successful.

regards

mike

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Manni
Posted 2002-06-25 18:48:44 and read 2654 times.

SESGDL,

I was sure they had cancelled that destination already, they must have changed their mind or postponed it.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2002-06-25 20:08:59 and read 2624 times.

Its tough for US carriers in AMS - KLM/NW runs the show, more or less, and with the CO joining the party, it will be even more difficult. AA had planned to fly to AMS and then decided against it. Just like NW controls DTW, KLM and its partners control AMS, and its a difficult market to break into, and even more difficult to make a profit. AA's success in Europe is very marginal - aside from its prized Heathrow routes, AA has not opened that many routes and has dropped a good number of the routes that it did attempt.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Leo
Posted 2002-06-25 20:30:47 and read 2603 times.

In 1998 Bob Crandall - CEO of AA in those days - announced what he called 'The Amsterdam year' of AA. The plans were for the simultaneous launch of daily ORD-AMS, daily JFK-AMS, and possibly daily DFW-AMS.

These plans never materialised as market circumstances changed rapidly.

Summer 2002, AA codeshares to Amsterdam with bmi British Midland 5x daily and with SWISS over ZRH 1x daily. These six AA frequencies to AMS are probably sufficient for the time being.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Blink182
Posted 2002-06-25 23:01:25 and read 2564 times.

Leo- does AA still codeshare with BMI? I thought it ended about 6 months ago.

Back to the topic- I think the only real possibility would be DFW-AMS, but I wouldn't keep my hopes up. American has not grown in Europe in quite some time, and when the market is bad, they shouldn't start now.

SESGDL- AA's Rome services are seasonal in the summer. FCO,Glasgow, and BHX are AA seasonal.

blink

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2002-06-25 23:14:58 and read 2544 times.

Blink182, BHX is year-round. It did not operate winter 2001/2002, but that's it.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Lj
Posted 2002-06-26 08:22:55 and read 2491 times.

I wouldn't be suprised if KLM or NWA start an AMS-DFW service. I can recall a thread on this board suggesting that either KLM or NWA was thinking about this route. This would certainly mean that you wouldn't see any AA aircraft at AMS anytime soon.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Blink182
Posted 2002-06-26 16:37:49 and read 2445 times.

Lj-
If Northwest or KLM were to serve DFW, American would instantly start DFW-AMS service. American beat Air France out of CDG, so I am sure they could do it to Northwest/KLM out of AMS. It would be a good competition though from both sides of the pond. DFW needs another trans-atlantic flight as BRU was dropped when Sabena went out of business and Air France dropped their CDG flight so now the only CDG flight is by AA. Amsterdam would be a welcomed route at DFW regardless of whether it is AA or NW/KL.

blink

Topic: RE: I Saw An AA777 In AMS
Username: AMSMAN
Posted 2002-06-28 08:38:54 and read 2394 times.

Who says no AA to AMS?, what I get from this thread is that AA dont fly to AMS, well Id like to know what I saw an short final for rwy 1L in AMS at about 7.50am this morning??

I saw the AA 777 landing followed by a NW MD11.

J

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2002-06-28 08:46:44 and read 2389 times.

AMSMAN, you probably didn't see an AA 777. They do not fly to Amsterdam. There could have been a diversion from CDG or FRA or something, however. I have no idea what you saw, because I can't think of another airline right now with a silver livery. And you did not see a Northwest MD11. NW does not have any MD11s, they do have DC10s though.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Cba
Posted 2002-06-28 09:03:47 and read 2386 times.

The market is too saturated. The only possibility would be DFW-AMS, but then again, maybe not. They'd have to compete with KLM and CO 200 miles south at IAH. Apparently, the CO flight goes out full every night, and now with KLM and CO extending their partnership, this makes competition even tougher for AA.

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Brons2
Posted 2002-06-28 09:41:59 and read 2380 times.

KLM does fly to IAH, they could stop off at DFW on the way back. Lufthansa's flights to Texas used to do this, not sure if they still do. (on an unrelated side note, LH had an upset event that broke a flight attendant's ankle, in route from DFW to IAH). I know it's inefficient to fly the big planes inbetween cities, but it would be a way to easily serve both cities. Or, you can just ride CO to Houston and pick up KLM there Big grin

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Blink182
Posted 2002-06-28 17:33:38 and read 2337 times.

Maybe when KLM gets their 777s(?), they might start AMS-DFW service.

AMSMAN- Either you saw a United 777(sometimes AA and UA can get confused at a distance, I have done so myself) or that AA 777 was a diversion.

blink

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: AMSMAN
Posted 2002-06-28 18:07:37 and read 2319 times.

Sorry about the mix up with NW a/c but it was an AA777 landing on 1L that i saw because I knew that they dont fly here.

Im telling you guys, it was an AA777 i saw, could it have been a diverted a/c from another airport?

AMS

Topic: RE: Why No AA To Ams?
Username: Blink182
Posted 2002-06-28 19:35:40 and read 2295 times.

AMSMAN- It probably was a diversion from either LHR,LGW,FRA, or CDG. It could not have been ZRH,BRU and the other AA served European airports as they get 767s. So it was either from LHR,LGW,FRA, or CDG.

blink


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