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Topic: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: BR715-A1-30
Posted 2002-07-06 22:19:53 and read 3187 times.

I noticed that TWA had far more maintenance problems with their 717s than AirTran ever has. Is this because TWA didn't care about their 717s after they were bought out by AA. Just look at this pic.


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Hydraulic Failures

and read this report http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20010816X01695&key=1 Spray Deflector problems. So I ask again gentlemen, WHAT IS GOING ON!!!? And I answer... We have careless and sloppy employees. But what was going on that caused TWA to have so many problems with their 717s

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: AC340
Posted 2002-07-06 23:39:55 and read 3136 times.

Isn't it obvious? It's because the 717 is a piece of garbage. Give me a A318 anyday. (I would like to point out that is not a true represenation of my feels, but a parody of many posts I have seen on this board. I think that the 717 is a fine aircraft.)  Big thumbs up

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: BonanzaFunjet
Posted 2002-07-07 00:34:51 and read 3091 times.

AC340 ...good thing you really don't feel that way about the 717, you'd still be waiting on that A318.

Aren't the A318's heavy, not really the same market as the 717?

Bonanza

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: Srbmod
Posted 2002-07-07 00:46:58 and read 3081 times.

Some of the early problems with the 717 (APU, cockpit displays, hydraulic problems), plagued both TWA and AirTran, but a majority of the problems seemed to occur with TWA more because the operating environment was different that AirTran's is. With most of TWA's 717 ops in cold weather climates that require deicing, the earlier APU problems due to a bad design element in the intake happened to them more than AirTran. AirTran had problems with the displays in the cockpit that even included an emergency landing, and until the glitch in the software was fixed, 717s couldn't fly at night and during inclimate weather for a brief time. Maybe TWA's mechanics didn't see the 717 as a new plane, one to be treated with kid gloves. AirTran drummed into employees heads to be extra careful around the 717s since they were brand new, so maybe that helped reduce the number of potential incidents.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: BR715-A1-30
Posted 2002-07-07 01:09:52 and read 3065 times.

I heard that the latest 717s are still having APU problems. Ship 761 which is the one I flew on during it's second day of actual service since Delivery had been having APU problems since May 25, 2002. I think Allied Signal needs to get their priorities straight. They are making the 717 look bad.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: Boiler Special
Posted 2002-07-07 01:21:13 and read 3053 times.

Every airplane has problems when it is brand new. It takes awhile for the bugs to get worked out. You provide one picture of a TW aircraft having a problem and suddenly there are "more maintenance problems than AirTran ever has."

Please don't forget the night that the flight deck of an AirTran 717 flying ATL-MCO went completely dark and the pilots were forced to land the aircraft relying on the backup gauges. Boy, I can't believe an AirTran pilot was so stupid as to turn off the cockpit display! How careless and sloppy!!

There have been other problems with hydraulics at both carriers. The most gleaming incident was 2417's belly landing at Mid-America, but that had nothing to do with TWA's mx as you might want to suggest.

I understand that TWA is a part of AA now so, facts aside, all TWA employees are careless and sloppy. So I won't entertain you with any real facts about the real people that work for both TWA and AA. I've met a lot of great people this summer at both carriers in St Louis, and I can tell you that "professional" is a slightly better word to describe them than "sloppy."

The 717 had issues at first, TW had to take ridiculous weight restrictions during the cold weather on some of the shorter flights due to design flaws. They were fixed by Boeing and the 717 enjoyed terrific reliability at TW for its last few months of service. But again, facts aside. We're talking about an AA-owned carrier here.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: Flyer732
Posted 2002-07-07 01:22:12 and read 3052 times.

734 has a busted APU too, 765 already has some problems

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: FDXmech
Posted 2002-07-07 01:26:47 and read 3044 times.

I'm curious how you know that TWA has/had more Mx problems with the 717 than AirTran?

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: BR715-A1-30
Posted 2002-07-07 02:17:49 and read 3011 times.

FDXMech.... Read the SDR reports.

Flyer732, I think Allied Signal needs to get their priorities straight, wouldn't you agree? Didn't you say that N969AT had APU problems too. I feel sorry for FL's Mechanics having to fix a mistake made my somebody else.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: FDXmech
Posted 2002-07-07 03:48:41 and read 2965 times.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: JmhLUV2fly
Posted 2002-07-07 04:10:36 and read 2956 times.

I have not read all the replies; but in my opinion I have found in the four months that I have been working with AirTran, I have found that the 717's in my opinion are not holding up very well, I do realize that AirTran does run the birds pretty hard, probably making up to 8 or so legs a day, and the turn around time is quick...so AirTran does demand alot out of an airplane, the oldest AirTran 717 is not quite three years old, they came out in September of 99', i have seen a few of those older 717 that look like they have been in service for 15 years, on one plane I saw where the paneling had popped off the side of the fusalage, you could see the green fusalage metal, also I noticed on my last trip that the cabin noise while in flight, the roaring noise if you will while at cruising altitude was louder in the older plane then was on my return trip on a much newer 717, ethier, we were not flying as fast or maybe the insalation is a factor and possibly wears down...I dont know not trying to put down the 717, its a very fine airplane and McDonnal Douglas desgined the airplane to fly well, however, as an airplane consumer....ie. an airline I would want my plane to last and be durable....just my thoughts and opinions.
JMH

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: BR715-A1-30
Posted 2002-07-07 04:26:43 and read 2948 times.

I did notice that N940AT was louder inside than N989AT was. I have faith in the 717 aircraft. The 717 was based to be a shorter version of the MD-90, So let's look at it in that perspective. The MD90 has been a neat little airplane (Except for the quirky electrical systems which have been fixed on the 717). What do you mean about the Panel popping off of the fuselage?

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: B747-437B
Posted 2002-07-07 04:55:55 and read 2920 times.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Corollary : Knowledge and stupidity are usually in inverse proportion.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: Wilcharl
Posted 2002-07-07 05:06:02 and read 2914 times.

back in my FL days, i would make sure that my flights were DC9 flights because at least for me the flights I flew, the 717 had incrediably bad dispatch reliablity. while I was there, there were some quality assurance related problems with the aircraft that both TW and FL had, (the fault of boeing) its a new airplane, its the end of the line... boeing didnt excatly treat the MDC employees like angels when they came into Long Beach. FL doesnt like to fill out SDRs compared to other carriers, alot of stuff worthy of an SDR never got publsihed. A WHOLE LOT... Airlines like DL and TW are professional opperaitons that have internal QA and safety programs dedicated to that stuff...

FL has had serious interior problems with the 717 also with seats braeking, the seats in coach are the old Valujet contracted seats, very cheaply made, the last i heard the seat problems were so bad that one of the seat componant manufactures was driven into bankrupcy from excessive warranty claims... Take the seat cushion up on an FL-717 and the contract code is printed on the tag.. it will say VJ

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: Penguinflies
Posted 2002-07-07 05:13:13 and read 2900 times.

Now the real question is how does all 100 717s operate. Take a look at Qantas Link and HA. HA is pushing 11 flights a day on their 13 planes with air conditioning running almost non-stop. How is their APUs and other parts holding up? Same questions with Qantas Link. Overall I think that the entire fleet is doing pretty well.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: BR715-A1-30
Posted 2002-07-07 05:35:31 and read 2885 times.

WilCharl, Thanks for that advice on the Seat Cushion. I will be sure to do that. Thanks

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: JmhLUV2fly
Posted 2002-07-07 08:21:38 and read 2834 times.

I dont remember the tail number, but one night when I was cleaning our terminator flight , it was an older 717, probably in the 40 range N94*AT
when I got to about row 14 or so, I noticed near 14F the paneling had come off the wall, I tried my darndest to place the paneling back in, so that it would be flush with the wall of the fusulage, it wouldnt stay, with the paneling sticking out, if you sat in seat 14F and looked up where the wall meats the overhead bin, you could see green fusulage along with insulation and wires bolting down the overhead bin...a site you would expect to see on a much much older DC-9 not a two year airplane....it was kinda depressing to me to see such...at any rate...thats what I meant...
Also.....regarding the reply made by B747-437B..not sure if your reply was aimed at me, if it was...I dont consider myself stupid, I will however give you my opinion and educated guess.
JMH

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: B747-437B
Posted 2002-07-07 08:25:35 and read 2830 times.

regarding the reply made by B747-437B..not sure if your reply was aimed at me

Don't worry, it wasn't. There are other much more deserving candidates on this thread.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: Flyer732
Posted 2002-07-07 18:07:58 and read 2754 times.

As for the seats, the 717s more frequently have an inop seat than the DC-9's, and most of the time I only have an inop on an oversold flight...uggh.
Thinking back, I think that most of my mx delays are on 9's I maybe have 1 717 mx delay every 1.5 months or so, and even then the delay only lasts about 10 mins where as I've had 9 delays last as long as 3 hours, and I've seen longer than that.
Comparing the two, the 717 is better, but they both get their workout every day so problems will arise, and when most of the out stations don't have mx on hand, its not easy to fix up little problems here and there, and the aircraft are rarely on the ground long enough in ATL for things to be taken care of.
So...most of the things you see will be taken care of either when the plane gets to a station to RON where we have mx or when its going to have a check done either here or in MCO.
Either way I have better reliability with the 717s than the 9s, rather fly on the 717 than the 9...although I think the 9's seats are more comfortable.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: JETPILOT
Posted 2002-07-07 18:13:43 and read 2745 times.

All I have to say is if this thread was written by Mary Schiavo I wouln't be suprised.

JET

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: BR715-A1-30
Posted 2002-07-07 19:53:33 and read 2700 times.

JETPILOT, Don't worry, This thread was not posted by Mary Schiavo, as I would have to be Mary Schiavo, and I am not Mary Schiavo.  Smile LONG LIVE THE 717

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: LMP737
Posted 2002-07-07 20:09:09 and read 2695 times.

I once asked a TWA maintenance instructor about the 717. He said TWA was not to pleased with the performance. As with any new aircraft there are going to be bugs that have to worked out once it hits airline service. Since I only worked on the 717 when I was at Boeing I cannot really comment about it's performance with the airlines. I was impressed with the cockpit layout, uncluttered when compared with the MD-80/90 or the DC-9. The packs were much more compact compared to the MD-80's so there was more space in the tailcone to move around. That and the fact they got ride of the airstairs. Since they made the spoilers FBW there were no cable runs going through the wheel wells.

BR715:

Myself, I would never refer to the MD-90 as a "nice little airplane". It was quite frankly, a pain in the a**.

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2002-07-08 03:18:04 and read 2600 times.

"Since they made the spoilers FBW there were no cable runs going through the wheel wells."

If only someone had explained to Douglas that wires are actually tiny control cables, then those DC- and MD- airplanes would've been much simpler......

Topic: RE: Why Did TWA Have So Many 717 Maintenance Problems?
Username: Wilcharl
Posted 2002-07-08 18:52:07 and read 2506 times.

bottem line though is FL does not have hte staff to fill out SDRs they do not get filled out.. now look at an airline like DL that has a very active safety department.. and how many SDRs they fill out... it would make it look like thier a/c were POSes but they arent...


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