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Airbus: UA Will Return To Profit And Order A380  
User currently offlineBigo747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6246 times:

The designer of Airbus's super jumbo A380 says that despite United Airlines is operating under bankruptcy, the airline is still a potential A380 launch customer.

A380 design director Jens Hinrichsen says he expects United will order the super jumbo and believes the airline will recover and back to profit. Hinrichsen is a 25-year airbus veteran.

The A380, in the planning stages since 1994, is scheduled for flight tests in 2005 and commercial service in 2006.

United spokesman Joe Hopkins declined the comment and says the airline is not interested in ordering A380. But Hopkins said that the airline continues to monitor developments on aircraft programs.

One veteran captain of a major U.S. carrier called the A380 "a blimp with wings" that would not appeal to passengers.



79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

See my "Psychic or Crackpot" thread below.

User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2485 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6187 times:

When will it snow in Miami....

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

PW100,

I don't think so we have snow into MIA either for the long time. It was use into the north of the states. Just curious about with the winter time at Chicago, huh? Well, see ya around!!

Regards!


User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6165 times:

the airline is still a potential A380 launch customer.


Yeap, and I am potential too hehehe who wrote this crap?


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13596 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6151 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

"Airbus: UA Will Return To Profit And Order A380"

ROFLMAO!!!!!  Nuts

for other humorous fiction, see also:

"Captain of Titanic: This Thing Will Float; No Problem"

"Ford: Edsel Will Be Our Biggest Seller Ever"

"Southwest: We Need Used Concordes For New Transatlantic Service"




"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6128 times:

LOL.. This is funny. I am not going to say it won't happen. I doubt it though.

I think this is a joke.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

I agree with Mr. Hininrichsen on one point. UAL will recover from chapter 11 and turn a profit one day. However I'm not so sure about them ordering the A380. United is parking and/or selling off some of it's 747-400 while keeping their 777. I have a feeling when UAL does recover they will be a much lighter version of it's current self.

Just because an airline has 747-400 doesn't mean it will order the A380. Look at all the airlines that had 747-100/200 that never went on to order the 747-400. American, Delta, Sabena, Swiss Air, Continental, SAS, TWA, Braniff, America West and Pan Am to name a few.


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6097 times:

UA A380s. Uh-huh. Contact the "Senator from PanAm", cuz the only way that's gonna happen is if UAL is nationalized right now. This is the airline that's thinking of shedding 744s for 777s (emphasis on the 777s for my next sentence). Does this crackpit honestly think that this means UAL would be interested for A380!? Well, UAL will return from Chap. 11, he's right about that, but his brain may be getting away from him.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13206 posts, RR: 77
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6069 times:

Unlikely at present, or the near future, but who can really say for sure?
A lot more chance of a UA A380 than a UA Sonic Cruiser!


User currently offlineDASH8KING From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2743 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5987 times:

Look at all the airlines that had 747-100/200 that never went on to order the 747-400. American, Delta, Sabena, Swiss Air, Continental, SAS, TWA, Braniff, America West and Pan Am to name a few.

And how many of those airlines have the A380 on order? I know that TWA (dead), American, Delta, Braniff (dead), Pan Am and America West Don't.





User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5944 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Currently, there is obviously no chance of UA buying anything, let alone A380's. But *IF* UA does come out of bankruptcy and starts making a profit and pax demand warrants bigger planes, then why not?



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineJimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

I think this is mostly ridiculous as well...especially since UA almost seems on the verge of dumping their 747's.

However, I did think that perhaps he knows something that we don't. For instance, I could entirely see the possibility of Airbus being *real* nice to UA during this time of crisis, helping them out whatever way they can, with the understood concept that later UA would buy a few token A380's. That doesn't seem very far fetched.


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5906 times:

Dang, send me some of whatever he was smoking. I could use it after a hard day. Nuts


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5874 times:

I also believe that United will come out of Chapter 11, and as a stronger airline.

Eventually after a few years, they will need to buy new aircraft. They're not going to stay like they are forever.

But the A380, no. I don't think so.

But I'm not going to deny it though. I've learned anything is possible over the years.

EasyJet's A319 order is a perfect example......

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineEssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5839 times:

Sure...ADD capacity to a bankrupt network;Airbus will probably underwrite the loan.

User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

Without sounding melodramatic, this has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements to come out of Airbus. The statement comes from the design director, not the marketing department. He should worry about the A380 rather than who's buying it, that will be done by the marketing and finance department etc.

UA is in dire straits. Only reasonably well off airlines can afford to take a gamble on such an aircraft. Even if UA recovers, it must safeguard itself against such happenings occurring again, as much as possible, and being the only operator of a behemothic aircraft is not a way of doing that.



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineUAL1837 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5717 times:

After UAL emerges from chapter 11, their main priority will be to re-build the massive war chest they once had. After that...maybe...but the 777-300ER is MUCH more likely.

User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5714 times:

Airbus seems to love to give good deals to hard luck cases.

Swissair, Sabena, UsAir, United, America West.... all have the Buss's as a major part of their fleet. We havnt seen to many sizeable all or mostly Boeing carriers get into that much trouble.

My guess is that Boeing saw the writting on the wall and refused to give these guys truly competitive deals. Instead, they save their muscle in order to compete for orders from the likes of Ryanair and other healthy carriers.

Both Boeing and Airbus will make "loss-leader" (or almost "loss-leader') sales. Its just that Airbus seems to do it more often and it seems to offer these deals to less financially stable carriers under questionable management. The only killer deal that I can remember Boeing has offered to a carrier in major trouble is the 717 deal with Airtran/Valuejet. And they are a very rare and special case. They were launch customers and also the sole customer of a slow selling line. Yet they were small enough that Boeing's investment could make a difference.

When these carriers shrink or fail - the used planes will go on the market and depress the prices Airbus can receive from those who DO pay them real money for aircraft. While the more healthy carriers Boeing sells to pick up the slack.

Methinks this practice will eventually come back to bite Airbus  Sad . There is a good chance that if Airbus gives A-380s to United for the price of an A-330 as they are apparantly doing with Emirates - the ships will eventually end up in the desert and Airbus will end up competing with its own products. And any money Airbus put in the company in the form of discounts, financing, etc. goes down the drain. This may happen with UsAir, America West and/or United's A320's. In fact, their are only two "safe" airbus fleets in the US that I can think of - JetBlue and Northwest. For Airbus's sake I hope this is enough to keep them profitable in the US market.


User currently offlineMSY-MSP From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5704 times:

I have to agree this is really a far fetched idea to come from Airbus. But this did get me thinking about a couple of things that might be going on.

Airbus says to UA, we won't come collecting on the money you owe us for the 319/320, until times are better. (I know that this is through a German Bank I cannot remember the name of). in exchange for our generousity you agree to buy another type of aircraft in the future. Airbus realizes that the 777 is going to stay in UA's fleet, but that the 747 is probably gone. However, UA has routes that could, in the future, support the 380, so UA agrees on the side, that when they recover they will order a token couple of 380's.

Is the above possible, yes. Do I believe it? not really. But who knows what is going on behind the closed doors. As BA said anything is possible look at EasyJet.

In summarry UA isn't ordering any new planes anytime soon. But maybe in 2005 they might for delivery in 2009. That would make them a launch customer right? Just a thought. Only time will tell. MSY-MSP


User currently offlineEssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Remember, some Airbus A380 marketing genius actually thought lower level shopping, entertainment or exercise areas would actually be utilized by the airlines. Could there have been a bigger liability? Those ads were hilarious; complete with plate glass windows to fall through...


User currently offlineBigo747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

some Airbus A380 marketing genius actually thought lower level shopping, entertainment or exercise areas would actually be utilized by the airlines. Could there have been a bigger liability?

I think those stuff will stay for first 5 years in service to impress passengers, then they'll be gone for good.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5331 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

You gotta be kidding me!

I think UA will survive!

I also think UA will be much lighter than it is/was!


User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1837 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5628 times:

People would do well to remember that even though United (and other carriers, such as BA) are dumping some 747s for 777s, they still retain several route combinations that would require a larger airport - mainly out of LHR and NRT, in BA's case - I would imagine this is the same for UA.

Comparisons with early US domestic 741 operators are pointless.....these aircraft were mainly bought for range, or prestige, with predictable results.


User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5566 times:


United has always been one of the airlines that have voiced their need for larger airliners. They may be shedding 747s now, I don't see how that connects to possible 380 purchases when the airline is better off. The 380 will have substantially better economics than the 747, not to mention higher capacity. It would indeed be logical for UAL to shed the loss-making 747s and buy more modern and efficient planes to replace them with in the future.

I don't see why this idea would create so much steam here.




25 Post contains images AApilot2b : Are you sure this is an accurate story or the guys at Airbus so sold on their A380 that they have lost touch with reality. I hope United returns to pr
26 Chiawei : I seriously doubt that this is going to happen at all. 1. How does United going to fill 500+ seat on long international route? Does anyone think that
27 Gigneil : United doesn't want to compete with SQ, for example, they're partners. And CX's service to North America pales in comparison to UA's power to serve HK
28 The Coachman : Gigneil, I think you've forgotten about CX's partner who happens to be AA...
29 Joni : Chiawei, The whole point in A380 is that it _is_ considerably cheaper to run than 744. One of the reasons for the trend toward smaller planes is that
30 Lindy : Your speculations are point less. This thing was writen by somebody without any aviation knowledge. Just read this "the airline is still a potential A
31 Ual777contrail : lindy, I would hardly say the guy has no aviation experience, he is a salesmen. This is a guy from airbus trying to sell his product, give the guy a b
32 N79969 : No one knows how the 380 will perform in actual service yet. It has the potential to be more efficient than a 744 but that is still uncertain.
33 F4N : To all: I think the speculative nature of this entire topic is completely pointless. UA first and foremost has to survive. If they do, they will most
34 Wingman : I also read that piece and don't see why all the fuss, I agree the guy is just talking about possibilities. Certainly the most troublesome comment he
35 N79969 : $3 billion of the development costs do not have to be repaid if the aircraft is not profitable. Source: June (maybe July) 29, 2002 Time Magazine artic
36 Wingman : That can't be right. The loans are guaranteed to the US to be "on a commercial basis". Banks don't give a flying fart if a project is profitable or no
37 Heavierthanair : G'day In Henry Ford's wording, the model "T" will be available in any color desired, provided it is black. Black no longer seems the preferred color s
38 N79969 : Wingman, That $3 billion is from the EU and not banks. It is a 'repayable' loan. That Time article was in a reprinted excerpt put out by Airbus.
39 Gigneil : The Coachman- AA's power to connect people to Cathay's service without multiple stops first is minute compared to UA's to connect to their own flights
40 Post contains links Ha763 : I doubt UA will want anything bigger than the 747. I also found the following article interesting. http://www.aviationcareer.net/theplane/tp_102002_01
41 EssentialPowr : To every genius talking about 744s and UA: UA can't sell the seats they have. Low seat mile costs on a 500 pax airliner are great, ASSUMING those seat
42 Gigneil : I find that to be completely unbelievable. It only has about a 200,000-300,000 lb greater MTOW than the 744, and between 30-50,000lbs more thrust. N
43 Dazeflight : Wingman, >>So Fedex may be the only US-based airline to order the 380 for many years to come. The french newspaper "La Tribune" has published an artic
44 Cedarjet : I predict that either UA or NW will fly the A380. All this nonsense about how UA will never order it is nonsense - they're already the biggest Airbus
45 Clickhappy : A380 has ~280k lbs of Thurst, moving a GTW of 1,235,000 744 has ~240k of lbs Thurst, moving a GTW of 875,000 That means the A380 has 15% more power th
46 Bobcat : In other news, Disney Cruise Lines is currently negotiating with the Russian government to buy a couple of Typhoon- class submarines. These subs will
47 Wingman : Don't tell me boys, I'm just relating what the Airbus guy said in the article..."there are no other potential customers for the 380 in the US for the
48 N79969 : The Time article is: July 29, 2002 America Helps build the 'Bus I can't link it unfortunately since it is archived...but you can see for yourself.
49 F4N : Dazeflight: In a recent statement about earnings, Atlas denied that it has any intention of ordering A380 anytime in the near future. The story was on
50 Racko : C'mon, do you really take an article serious which claims that the A380 would need 20.000+ ft runways? There's no space for these runways at most of t
51 Donder10 : I'm sure a 380 would need 20K+Feet @MTOW in 50 degrees heat ,humid ,high etc etc.I suspect 1% of flights take off at MTOW.
52 Gigneil : I'm absolutely positive it wouldn't take 20k feet even in those circumstances. I'm sure the new 16k ft runway at Denver will be able to accomodate it.
53 Racko : x°C x 1,8 +32 = y° F Therefore, 50° C = 122° F
54 FlyinIllini : Any of you prognosticators ever hear of the Antonov An-225? The Mriya has a MTOW of 1,322,275 lb (600000 kg). It landed at Paris...AND taxied across t
55 Gigneil : Why do you say an unprofitable token? The gambling and whatnot aside... technology CAN predict how things will operate once complete (duh, people, its
56 Commander Data : For all we know the A380 could crash on a test flight! I own 3 aircraft, a Beechcraft 1900D, two Dornier 238 JETS, and a Fokker 70 operating as a very
57 Commander Data : I mean two Dornier 328* JETS...
58 Gigneil : A Beechcraft 1900D, 2 328JETs and a Fokker 70 is 4 aircraft. What airline is this? N
59 Donder10 : I doubt long-haul DEN flights leave at MTOW or that close to it.Prob be proven wrong though.
60 Ual777contrail : commander data, do you operate out of the south? You said you have 3 aircraft, 1 beechcraft, 2 d-238, and 1 fokker, right? That equals 4 I think I'll
61 MD-90 : Oh yes, the South is full of nothing more than a bunch of ignorant rednecks who can't count or get over this certain little war that happened 140 some
62 FlyinIllini : My point was that it WOULD fly...the example of the Antonov was to show an airplane at a similar MTOW can fly out of strips less than 20,000 ft as was
63 Cloudy : the Antonov was built as a military cargo plane. The ability to operate out of a relatively short strips is usually THE biggest requirement for a mili
64 Joni : FlyinLLLi, No offence, but your post is one of the weakest I've ever seen on this forum. Your facts are wrong and you don't even manage to keep on th
65 Areopagus : Cloudy on A380: Since the design has yet to be flight tested, we do not know its true performance yet. Cloudy on Boeing Super-Efficient: Boeing claims
66 Post contains images AA717driver : A 20,000' TAKEOFF ROLL!? Is Republic building it? TC
67 Post contains images 747-451 : Such fecklessness and wishful thinking on the part of Airbus on United. United's main concerns are returning to profitability, not over capacity with
68 Racko : I doubt that you'll ever see the An-124 (not even talking about the -225) doing the daily workhorse stuff for the big freight carriers. "Superior perf
69 EssentialPowr : CedarJet "I predict that either UA or NW will fly the A380. All this nonsense about how UA will never order it is nonsense - they're already the bigge
70 FlyinIllini : Joni Before you blast someones post...learn how to spell...and read it in context. What facts are you challenging? I'll be glad to give you references
71 Travellin'man : I don't think UAL could ever be a "launch" customer for the A380, but eventually a regular one, sure! MAS has ordered and they are no longer considere
72 UAL1837 : Loads are always really high on US to Hawaii flights.
73 N79969 : Hawaii flights are a FF mile dump for UAL and I suspect other companies. It is low-yield. Hawaii routes would not justify the acquistion of the 380.
74 Bigo747 : Joni: The whole point in A380 is that it _is_ considerably cheaper to run than 744 The plane is not out there yet, and it's not even flying. Why are y
75 Ual777contrail : UNITED Doesn't need the a380, it is going to be a novelty plane. It wont serve any real purpose for those airlines that operate domestically in the Un
76 N79969 : "It will be a Concorde type plane, once you've seen it , well you've seen it." I think that is also an extreme prediction. I think there is a market f
77 747-451 : "And claiming the death (in the USA) of an aircraft that's still over 3 years away from it's first commercial flight seems quite "strange" to me, to s
78 Cloudy : Of course Boeing claims for the new super efficient jet have yet to be demonstrated. All other things being equal, bigger planes are more efficient th
79 Flight152 : The whole point in A380 is that it _is_ considerably cheaper to run than 744 You will never be able to tell how much a airplane type will cost to run
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