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Swissair Grounding - Not Necessary ...  
User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 33
Posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

Today several Swiss Radio stations reported that during the Swissair grounding on 2 October 2001 they still had around 123 million CHF.


Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMD-11 forever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2562 times:

If, I repeat, if those are the real numbers, I can't wait to hear about criminal investigations........

Cheers, Thomas


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

People in Switzerland knew very good that, with grounding SR, one of their best status symbols would be grounded.

Why would they do this if it is not necessary? It only has disadvantages...

About investigations: the commission which investigates Sabena - Swissair, will come to conclusions in the very near future. People like Reutlinger risk to be (dagvaarden in Dutch, don't know it in English, let's say punished by court) very soon. You talk about criminal investigations, Thomas. Well, much criminal things have been found in the investigation. And if the SR management made so much mistakes within SN, they must have made also huge mistakes with SR. Maybe this is an explanation of the grounding...

Let's wait and see...

/Frederic


User currently offlineMD-11 forever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Well, maybe the Belgian investigations were fruitful yet.... But the news concerning the reports about the unnecessary grounding stated, that it is not clear yet whether those findings will lead to any criminal investigations and subsequent court cases for the ones being resposible for this mess.......... And that is my biggest concern, that the people responsible for the whole sad story with a lot of grief caused to all the employees (in Belgium, Switzerland, simply everywhere!), may walk away without being taken to face their resposibilities. As for me, I want to see them punished and not only with a minor sentence........

Cheers, Thomas


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

And that is my biggest concern, that the people responsible for the whole sad story with a lot of grief caused to all the employees (in Belgium, Switzerland, simply everywhere!), may walk away without being taken to face their resposibilities. As for me, I want to see them punished and not only with a minor sentence........

Very very true! It's amazing to see how the biggest responsible managers - CEO's - ... always escape from the grief of others, and find another (and a way overpaid) job elsewhere to make the same mistakes...

Once you have your 'name' and connections in business, it's permitted apparently to make mistakes all the time, to cause grief for others, and to avoid punishment!

A real shame...

Regards
Frederic


User currently offlineAviationMaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2479 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

Maybe the grounding happened, although they still had the cash, so that they could declare SR "bankrupt" and make it easier to start the new airline.
I hope that those CEO's get punished for what they did.

-christian


User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

People in Switzerland knew very good that, with grounding SR, one of their best status symbols would be grounded.

That's true, people in Switzerland knew it. But it weren't people in Switzerland, which grounded the airline.

There was more behind this grounding. Just an example: the involved banks say, that Swissair had enough cash, Mario Corti always said, he hadn't access to these accounts. Just one example to show, how complex this whole thing was.

And forget about Reutlinger or whoever from the management beeing punished. It's far too complicated. A wrong business decision is not a fraud. For example: the report says, that the company didn't act consequently according to their own "Hunter"-strategy, as they only acquired minority stakes in mainly loss-making airlines in Europe. Is this a fraud? No. These were bad decisions.

Perhaps there are more chances here:

***(quote)***
Swissair's financial reporting also came under severe criticism.

"The unconsolidated and consolidated financial statements for 1999 and, to a much greater degree for 2000, did not fairly present the economic and financial situation of the SAirGroup," said the report.


***(end quote)***

IF a fraud can be proved, then it's a whole different story. Unfortunately, I don't remember many CEO's beeing heavily punished in the past. Perhaps we should introduce the good old law: (sorry ... )

Rgds
Gerardo



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2340 times:

One other thing to consider is that there's a difference between having cash and having the ability to use it. Many loan and lease agreements have "convenants" which are conditions above and beyond just making the payments on time.

For example, they may have had lease agreements which had covenants stating that, if at any time Swissair had less than CHF 120 million in cash, that those lessors could immeadeatly reposses their aircraft, even if the payments were current and paid at that time.

Thus, even though they had money in the bank, they may well have had no choice.

Steve


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

Very good point Steve.

User currently offlineDanialanwar From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 421 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

It is always easy to point out mistakes afterwards ... The report also said that when Corti took over in 2001 he was not aware and was not informed that the books were cooked.


Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2294 times:


I miss that airline...always thought their planes looked cool. Here is an article on the mess:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030124/airlines_swissair_1.html


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Thanks Gerardo, as usual you said everything. Sad story.

Regards Philipp


User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

The grounding was actually a good scheme, and had good effects. It made the swiss government and swiss people take notice and take action. Afterall swiss secured a givernmant "loan" just days after the grounding.

User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

I think that, at the moment of the grounding, Swissair could not be saved anymore.

Ok, you loose a status symbol, but if you calculate that it is much cheaper to found a new company with Crossair, than trying to restructure SR (with cutting tonns of jobs, grounding planes, scrapping routes, loosing your image, and, after all, keep on staying in a very bad financial shape with huge looses, + financial claims on you (remember the hotel agreements  Big grin), I think that this was the only possibility left.

But it's hard to accept, I talk from experience, just like you...

/Frederic


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