Aviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5701 times:
Below is a photo of an aircraft which was taken at Lisbon Airport, probably sometime in the 1940s or 1950s.
OK, here is the challenge.
Name the type of aircraft in the photo. The only information I have on the aircraft, is that there were only ever 2 airlines which flew it, and 1 of those airlines only ever flew that type of aircraft.
What do we know about the aircraft?
* It is a 4 prop aircraft (one of the props can be seen behind the stairs)
* Its capacity is probably around 40-50 people? I say this because of the number of people lining up and walking up to the aircraft.
Myself, and a few other people have discounted quite a lot of the "major" props from that era, including Douglas DC-4s/DC-6/DC-7, Bristol Britannia, etc, etc.
One thing which should be noted is the higher positioning of the stabiliser.
Personally, I am thinking of an aircraft which was built somewhere like France, Italy or Spain. It is obvious by the fact that only 2 airlines operated it, that it wasn't a "successful" program.
So guys and gals, let hear it. What type of aircraft is it?
Lapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1623 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5479 times:
I think the steps leading up to the rear door are a bit of a red herring on this chaps. TAP's fleet only ever consisted of:
All of which can be discounted either becuase of the type/age or engine layout.
Aviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5412 times:
I was thinking of the CASA C-207 also, but the line about it only ever being operated by 2 airlines knocked it out in my mind, as for as far as I know, the C-207 was only ever operated by the Spanish Armed Forces? Also, I did mean 4 props as in 4 engines.
Agreed on that. For those who can't see the 2nd prop, I have circled it here:
Anyone know the names of some of the lesser known French aircraft manufacturers from that era?
Skymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5318 times:
Well, what have we got???
Definitely a four engined airliner (even without the inboard prop, the location of the main gear gives this away), conventional configuration, with a single nose wheel. Unusual horizontal stabliser configuration.
It definitely isn't: (1) a Casa Azor as this has two engines, (2) a Saab Scandia as this too has two engines, (3) an IL-18 as the horizontal stab is in the wrong place, (4) a Stratocruiser as these have double wheel nose gears, nor is it any of the TAP aircraft mentioned or a Viscount or Electra.
The TAP steps could well be a red herring. And so too could the "its only been operated by two airlines" lead. So, if for one moment we assume that the only two airlines thing is wrong, that leaves plenty more choices. It could be an aircraft which was operated by many airlines, or indeed it could just be a one-off which was being demonstrated to TAP.
I wondered whether it could be an Armstrong Whitworth AW.55 Apollo, but the engines aren't quite right...
Can't see anything French that obviously fits the bill, and however wide the net is cast, the configuration of the tail is very unusual.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 14456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5159 times:
I'm not so convinced that this is actually a four-engine aircraft.
If you look closely at the circled area in the photo, it looks like it's a shadow of the wing root where it blends into the fuselage. Also, had that dark area been a prop blade, there would be another two of them visible at 90 degrees up or down from it. This doesn't seem to be the case in the photo.
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GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13465 posts, RR: 77
Reply 18, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5129 times:
I looked in the 1940's section of the site linked above, as I thought of a Handley Page Hermes, but the horizontal stabilizer position is wrong.
I also thought of some post war French designs, I pretty sure that at least one had a nose wheel, not the tailwheel aircraft pictured on the site.
I've done searches for aircraft in this catergory but no joy so far.
Miller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 731 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5117 times:
Definately not a 207. Stab is much too high. You're right with the Apollo, engines aren't right, and the main gear doors are attached to the strut. Remember that just because they are using stairs owned by TAP, doesn't mean its a TAP airplane. I noticed the caravelle-like tail and considered the S.N.C.A.S.E. SE-2010 'Armagnac'.
I could only find this one photo of the aircraft, which unfortunately is at an angle where the wing eclipses the horizontal stab. I have noticed, however, that the rudder is uninterupted from top to bottom along the trailing edge of the vertical stab, which would indicate a more forward horizontal stab. Also the engines match, as well as the double doors on the main gear. Also, if you look closely, you can see the strut wrap around both sides of the nosewheel. Armagnac first flew in 1949, and only 9 were built, which I believe were all operated by Air France. It is very possible that Air France would have had one of these aircraft in Brazil during the early 1950's.
I think you're looking at a S.N.C.A.S.E. SE-2010 'Armagnac'.
Avroarrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5102 times:
Hmmm...I like a good mystery. Although I don't have any real suggestions at this point, I'll include my opinion about a few things. I would tend to think that it could be a 4 engine aircraft as the visible engine is quite far out on the wing and it is possible that the ramp in combination with the angle the photo was taken at obscures the other inboard prop blades. I would venture that it is likely a radial engine too based on the size of the cowling/nacelle. Also the wing seems to incorporate some sort of vortex generator on it, almost like a caravelle. No answers really, but maybe more observations will shake something loose for someone else.
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