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Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?  
User currently offlineBobcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9659 times:

Should JetBlue be afraid of "Song" by Delta?

For one thing, I know a lot of my business associates
pick JetBlue for the fact that their planes have "live"
DirecTV at every seat... they sometimes even prefer it
over getting upgraded on a competing airline...  Smile

Will "Song" have TVs on the 757s for its passengers?

89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBobcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9653 times:

nevermind... just found answers to my own questions...

"Song" will indeed have a more advanced live satellite TV
system for each seat: touch-screen, MP3 playback, and
even Pay-Per-View! (wow!)


User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9642 times:

To get to your original question, I see two concerns for JetBlue: capacity (757 for Song vs. the A320) and financial muscle (Delta as a corporate entitity, albeit one with limited cash).


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineBobcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9630 times:

From what I've read in Song's press releases, they don't
have plans to go trans-con....(New York to LA/SF area)
Not yet anyway....  Smile

My girlfriend said she like the idea of the new airline...
(but she likes everything that's green) She was surprised
when I told her that Song is supposed to be a low fare
airline. I also think that the amenities available on Song
somehow make the regular Delta seem like cattle cars...  Smile



User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9612 times:

It seems to me DL is trying to eliminate B6 from the face of the earth with this...whether they will be successful or not...only time will tell...

Reminds me a lot of when AA flew ORD-DAL with the 56 seat Fokker 100's just to get rid of Legend Airlines...DL seems to be taking a similar approach...

Greg




Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineWolfpacker From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9602 times:

Although it is too early to tell, Song has the frequent flyer advantage that is huge. If they can match Jetblue on service, ammenities AND have a FF program, Song will take business away from Jetblue.



User currently offlineBobcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9589 times:

"....DL is trying to eliminate B6 from the face of the earth"

those are really strong words.... but I suspect that may be exactly what Delta execs want....  Smile

It would be interesting to see what JetBlue comes up with to strike back....


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9533 times:

I think Song is a recognition that LCC is the wave of the future. Anyone not looking to operate commodity-style, low fare, major market only service. Customers demand low prices and are increasingly unwilling to fly otherwise. I think Delta's wise to start moving itself away from a "conventional" carrier and into a business model that can make money.

Steve


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9530 times:

Song does plan to do trans-cons from FLL and MCO in the future. jetBlue is also planning FLL trans-cons.


a.
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9510 times:

How bad has air travel gotten when it seems that the "LCC" of an airline will offer better service than the mainline carrier's economy service?  Smile

Anyway. With more insight into DL's plans and services, I don't think DL will knock jetBlue out, but they will hurt them on their Northeast-Florida routes.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9493 times:

It would appear that JetBlue has awaken the 900lb gorilla. Clearly, not good news for them.
Fully depreciated 757's will be more than competitive with JetBlues leased 320's.

I imagine there is a market for both....but DL has very, very deep pockets.


User currently offlineDASH8KING From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2743 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9435 times:

I think they will kill Jetblue. How many planes does Song plan on operating?

User currently offlineFrequentflier From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9330 times:

Song will in no way kill JetBlue.

JetBlue has too strong of a reputation to be shot down by such a ridiculous business plan. Song is basically a carbon copy of JetBlue with one problem. As far as I know, all of the employees will be unionized and will, therefore, have certain demands such as pay scale, benefits and hours worked. JetBlue employees, as far as I know, are non-union. While they are treated very well by Mr. Neeleman, they still do not have the demands that a unionized work force has. Song sounds like it means to concentrate on bringing an airline down. Any venture set to shut down an airline is both a ridiculous bully tactic and a dumb business move. JetBlue has a niche in New York-Florida and is developing one on the West Coast. Song will not steal that niche from JetBlue.

JetBlue owns New York.


User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9299 times:

>>As far as I know, all of the employees will be unionized and will, therefore, have certain demands such as pay scale, benefits and hours worked.<<

Only the pilots will be unionized and those will come from Delta mainline. The flight attendents will be low paid and it's expected they will have a high turnover.

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineAS_GSC From United States of America, joined Sep 2002, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9294 times:

I smell a bit of Darwinism!!  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9276 times:

FrequentFlier is correct. David Neeleman has prepared for this even before he started jetBlue. That is why his airline still around today. He thought of game plans before the game was even created.

David Neeleman is a social person, and likes to interact with his passengers, while Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors

David Neeleman flies jetBlue once a week to check out his airline. Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors

David Neeleman actually works for his own airline, and does check-in, baggage handling, flight attendant, and gate agent. Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors.

This is just my opinion, and should be accepted as well as the other opinions on this thread.


User currently offlineSccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9268 times:

At this point, I think JetBlue has achieved a degree of "critical mass" and, absent some dramatic and unexpected events, will be a part of the competetive landscape for the reasonably foreseeable future.

That said, Neeleman's plans rely upon wages and work rules which are dramatically less favorable (to employees) than most of its competitors; that will not last forever. Blue's challenge, then, will be to maintain the harmony through several wage negotiation rounds.

It is in vogue, now, to assert that traditional network carriers are dead behemoths, and indeed some are; but if Delta plans well and executes well, there's no doubt they can be a real force.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9230 times:

Feeling that airlines within airlines will not succeed, I give to you a verse from an old Who song (those of you over 40 might remember it):

This song is over
I'm left with only tears
I must remember
Even if it takes a million years

The song is over
The song is over

My bet is that Delta will be singing this song by December, 2005.


User currently offline727_Gal From United States of America, joined Sep 2002, 325 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9207 times:

I'm not going to play the funeral march for either jetBlue or Song just yet. Maybe these two can coexist in (relative) harmony? After all, B6 has been around long enough, and is the type of airline where it already has a fairly loyal customer base, I'd imagine. Probably those people will fly Song once to see what it's like, and then they'll either decide to stick with B6 or change over. After all, B6 and Song sound like relatively similar airlines, just like all the majors are, in essence, similar (at least domestically). The majors have managed to coexist, so I feel that these will too.

User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9170 times:

The features Song will have will be more extensive than JetBlue - for now. As stated...Song will fly paid off 757s with 199 seats and minimum staffing requirements. The comments about unions is totally incorrect and shows a lack of knowledge for Delta - one of the least unionized airlines in the nation. One good thing that may come of this...753s may find yet another home. Anyways...the general thought behind Song has been this will be the future of Delta's domestic mainline product - if it works out. Atlanta has enough "banks" in it right now to just run a rolling hub without the banks...then again Cincinnati isn't far behind, but it is mostly RJs - still between 6-9 flights per day on any one route.

The trumpets are sounding over Fort Widget for the first time in years. Time to see what the old southern belle has in her (most of us know you don't piss off a girl from the south, let alone Georgia.  Big grin ).


User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9108 times:

"JetBlue owns New York."

Well... that's a wee bit of an exagerration, now, isn't it? JetBlue is a strong presence in the marketplace, but has a market share that doesn't touch CAL's, AA's, and DAL's. It serves one airport in the city, the other's serve 3. JetBlue is, if I remember, the largest domestic carrier at JFK in terms of passengers, but AA and DAL both have huge international operations there.

JetBlue does not, nor will any one airline, ever "own" NYC.


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13749 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9072 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The answer to the question in this post?

YES. Be afraid, B6. Be VERY VERY AFRAID.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Seriously though, I think both carriers will coexist just fine. However, B6's party on the East Coast is over. They'll be ok, but they're not going to be the belle of the ball anymore.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13749 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9066 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

"JetBlue owns New York."

Yes, in the same way a flea owns a dog.  Big grin




"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineOflove13 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9064 times:

Song is going to use Furlouged delta flight attendants. these flight attendants will have to sign a contract for 2,3 or 5 yrs, but when they do sign on they give back there call back rights, but when there contract is up if there is an opening at mainline delta they will be able to go back.they were looking for 771 f/a's and they got over 2500. I dont think there will be a big turnover rate there, because if they leave they lose there chace to getting back in with delta.
As for unions last time i checked JB was not unionized either, i dont see a big turnover rate there. I think song will give JB a run for there money, ill fly song just because those air buses scare the hell out of me. either way this should be fun to watch


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9052 times:

Oflove-

Airbuses scare you?

I've heard it all now.

N


25 Cloudy : I dont think this will work, as I have said in other threads. But lets assume that it does. Lets assume that people flock to them. Lets assume that Je
26 Twaneedsnohelp : it's amazing to me how much they engineered Song to mimic and iminitate jetblue. everything about it is the same style. song's pilots will be very exp
27 Twaneedsnohelp : laslty, who did song's identity? was it landor? tnnh
28 Post contains images Spirit MD-80 : jetBlue along with the JFK-SJU flights are making MUCHO money. By July they go up to 5 Daily non-stop flights to SJU from JFK with easy connections to
29 Post contains images EA CO AS : jetBlue along with the JFK-SJU flights are making MUCHO money. By July they go up to 5 Daily non-stop flights to SJU from JFK with easy connections to
30 777d : If Song does succeed in eliminating Jetblue, Delta will shut down Song and the cost of a ticket will increase a couple hundered percent because Delta
31 777236ER : This is why the flying public should support the "true" low cost carriers. What a load of old nonsense. There is no way you can tell the flying public
32 Goingboeing : If it wasn't for WN, B6, Air Tran, and etc. imagine what we would be paying to fly. Yes and imagine all the food and bareable legroom too. With all du
33 EA CO AS : If Song does succeed in eliminating Jetblue, Delta will shut down Song and the cost of a ticket will increase a couple hundered percent because Delta
34 777236ER : With all due respect 777236ER, Southwests worst legroom is better than Delta's best coach class legroom. And I don't know about you, but I have yet to
35 777d : 777236er Am I forcing people to support Jetblue? What I am advocating is that the flying public should support Jetblue and the LCC for the fact that L
36 737doctor : With all due respect 777236ER, Southwests worst legroom is better than Delta's best coach class legroom. And I don't know about you, but I have yet to
37 777d : I doubt very much that any major carrier would be so sympathetic to the flying public. The bottom line is that the majors do not like the low cost car
38 Post contains images EA CO AS : "With all due respect" is a huge cliche. People usually say it before they insult you. Absolutely. Just like how "I hate to say it, but.." really mean
39 Post contains images 737doctor : And for the record, I'm pulling for Song to succeed. It's about time jetBlue and Southwest got their noses bloodied a bit. To borrow from a good ol' T
40 EA CO AS : To borrow from a good ol' Texas colloquialism: "This ain't our first rodeo." Many have tried, with very little success... Statements like that are pre
41 Goingboeing : With all due respect" is a huge cliche. People usually say it before they insult you. Anyway...who knows what the airline industry would be like witho
42 737doctor : Statements like that are precisely why some people will quietly cheer for B6 and WN to get slammed a bit. The employees of these two companies, while
43 777d : well said 737doctor.
44 Post contains images Twaneedsnohelp : cool logo:
45 Post contains images EA CO AS : So, if being proud of providing a quality low-cost alternative to air travel and giving people, who once couldn't afford it, the "freedom to fly" are
46 Delta15 : screw the true "low-cost carriers," they just got my mom layed off
47 Goingboeing : Someday Delta 15, you'll realize that the low cost carriers most likely were responsible for your moms job in the first place. They made it possible f
48 DASH8KING : who knows what the airline industry would be like without LCCs? Almost certainly there would have been better service. I find that LCC's have way bett
49 KAUSpilot : who knows what the airline industry would be like without LCCs? Almost certainly there would have been better service. If by "better service" you mean
50 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : Delta's New Song is finally revealed.... Delta's New Song is "FUNERAL MARCH!!!" Because this is what they will be playing real soon at their own funer
51 777236ER : Without LCCs the levels of service (both food...pitch...and crewing) would not have fallen as low as they have. No one can really dispute this.
52 777236ER : Is there any point in your post BR715? This isnt a logo competition, and Song's logo is quite a lot nicer than jetBlue's "logo". Delta's new song isn'
53 Donder10 : Yes and imagine all the food and bareable legroom too. I believe WN have some of the biggest legroom in the US market. They also are in a different cl
54 UAL-Fan : I know people just hate to hear this. I actually go out of my way to fly airlines that use American built planes. It's my own little way to protest th
55 Frequentflier : I would like to respond to certain points made above. 1: David Neeleman does fly on JetBlue weekly (at least) and he also works every job basically ex
56 737doctor : I very much dislike it when they follow that up with, "(insert airline other than WN or B6 here) just doesn't get it. Their people don't care. They mu
57 Post contains images EA CO AS : 737doctor- I didn't say that at all, you did. I never said that you said that. LOL I was saying that, on the whole, there are many LCC employees who d
58 Goingboeing : "Well, your airline isn't as good as ours. You should come work for us instead!" by WN employees! It's like they're trying to "convert" you or sell yo
59 Post contains images EA CO AS : Then again, it could just be that they LIKE you. Who, me? Naah...
60 DeltAirlines : Any airline directed at bringing down another will fail. Legend Airlines was shot down by AA intentionally matching service on routes out of DAL. AA l
61 174thfwff : Guys, I just want to say thanks for the civilized discussions... Per my views, I will always be loyal to Jet Blue. They saved my home town of Syracuse
62 Post contains images 737doctor : Thanks for the kind words, EA CO AS. I'll admit I was trying to be cute with the rodeo remark...
63 DASH8KING : Personal video monitors at every seat with "touch screen" technology and credit card "swipe" capability Does this mean they are going to charge for it
64 Post contains images EA CO AS : Thanks for the kind words, EA CO AS. Anytime! Even though we all work for different companies, at the end of the day we're all part of the same "frate
65 Gigneil : The screens on the jetBlue aircraft are also equipped with the ability to take money via the "swiper". As will the ones going in F9's... clearly, sinc
66 DASH8KING : So you have to pay to watch tv?
67 MAH4546 : The jetBlue aircraft have credit card swipers, and originally the service cost $4 a flight, but no longer. jetBlue has talked about using the swipers
68 Post contains images Bobcat : One of my Japanese friends got really excited when I told him about Song.... until I told him Song's personal TVs will probably not have karaoke built
69 Cloudy : It was said.... --- Just let WN or B6 try to provide GRR-LAX service, or SHV-BOS. They can't, and never will. ---- But Airtran can. And will someday.
70 Goingboeing : Just let WN or B6 try to provide GRR-LAX service, or SHV-BOS. They can't, and never will. Neither do any of the other "majors", unless you want to cal
71 Post contains images EA CO AS : Neither do any of the other "majors", unless you want to call ASA and Comair "major airlines". C'mon, I thought you were smarter than that. You know p
72 Post contains images Goingboeing : Not really EA CO AS...I can slap a baby poop brown paint job on a Cessna and claim I'm a "feeder" for Southwest. Bottom line, the regionals might conn
73 Frequentflier : JetBlue operates an almost strict hub and spoke system. There are two "focus cities," which are really hubs, at JFK and LGB. The only exception to the
74 Post contains links Dan2002 : Well if anyone really thinks jblu is scared of Schlong oh..sorry.. i mean Song i guess u could say http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/stupid.
75 BR715-A1-30 : ::Sings:: This is the song that someday ends, It won't go on and on my friend. Some people, started flying them not knowing what it was, and they'll t
76 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : Yeah, I wrote that dam* song.
77 777-200 : Does "Song" have a web site?
78 Post contains links BR715-A1-30 : http://www.songair.com This is the song that someday ends, It won't go on and on my friend. Some people, started flying them not knowing what it was,
79 FlyPNS1 : Not really EA CO AS...I can slap a baby poop brown paint job on a Cessna and claim I'm a "feeder" for Southwest. Bottom line, the regionals might conn
80 MCOtoATL : I admit that I originally thought that Song was a rather idiotic name, and I may still feel that way, but I did read some information as to why Delta
81 N659AA : The way I see it, it boils down to one simple number really... The cost of providing your service. Below is an excerpt from a recent article that puts
82 Goingboeing : That is great in theory, but I have not seen any details in how Delta expects to accomplish this cost reduction. details, details.
83 Twaneedsnohelp : song won't sing. doesn't anyone remember Continental Lite or United Shuttle?? Come on people. TNNH
84 Post contains images SteveSWA737 : Dont forget about Metrojet
85 Post contains images EA CO AS : Kids, please... Song won't be competing with DL mainline, which was NOT the case with UA Shuttle, MetroJet, and CAL Lite. Song will have a wholly diff
86 BR715-A1-30 : ....Or no success at all. This is the song that someday ends, It won't go on and on my friend. Some people, started flying them not knowing what it wa
87 Milemaster : Hey BR715 .. can you post your song again for a fourth time? I think we may not have caught it the previous three times. Thanks.
88 Cloudy : For what its worth, Michael Boyd likes it. And he is one who is usually against "airline within an airline" plans.
89 Jhooper : It amazes me to what end airlines try to differentiate their brands from each other. At the end of the day, you're buying a seat in an aluminum tube.
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