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Air Transat Fleet Renewal!  
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12394 times:

The latest YYZ news is reporting that Air Transat is currently evaluationg both the Airbus and Boeing option for it's fleet revitalization. If they go with Boeing the 767-300ER and 757-200ER are the likely candidates....an announcement is expected in the next few weeks...


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
103 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12275 times:

Interesting..

Boeing all the way!!

Mark


User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12269 times:

Interesting that Transat would go with the 767-300ER as it wouldn't have the capacity that Transat requires on their trans-Pacific flights as well as their larger southern destinations. Possibly they plan to keep the 330's and use the replacements for the Tristars, 310's, and 757's.

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12240 times:

Do I smell 777's??????????


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12231 times:

the 310s and 330s are quite new. I think Transat is looking at getting rid of the L10's and 757s...

-n


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12208 times:

There was talk about getting other 757's, eventhough they want to get rid of the current 757's. The A310's are new to the fleet, but TS is unhappy with them. There have been too many maintenance issues with them and also they are using more fuel than estimated. I believe FedEx is interested in them.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12204 times:

Nuno,

Thank you for the inside scoop..... where exactly did you get this ? Big grin

Mark


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12178 times:

Sorry, I musn't reveal this inside scoop of mine.  Big grin
But I have heard it from a number of good sources.  Smile I do forget where I heard the FedEx rumour though, but the others are from veeeeeeeeery good sources!

Didn't I say a long time ago that TS was talking to Boeing, and looking at the 777 too? Well ... things are progressing, at least on talks with Boeing.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12132 times:

Man, we need more Boeings in Canada!

The 752/753/763/764 would be the perfect fleet for TS!

 Smokin cool




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12097 times:

Neil,

Since when does a formidable athlete like you smoke?



User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12100 times:

I hardly think ordering the aging 757/767 would be a prudent course of action.

737-800/900s and the new 7E7, or A321s and A332s would be a much better choice.

N


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12025 times:

321 is useless for Transat's operation they dont have the range, and would be much to restricted going down south, and you can't go to Europe with them...The 757/767 combo would be ideal, I think. I dont know why you call the 75/76 aging....they are still produced, and avionics have been upgraded since the 80's!!! The 737-700 could also be an option for some of the smaller destinations in the south....But who knows...it will all be clear in a few weeks...


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11993 times:

Yes, ordering the 7E7 would be great ... but that's waaaaaaaaaaaaay into the future! Might as well order the Sonic Cruiser too.

I think in the mean time, the 777 isn't out of the question, and even the 764, and 763ER. It would be really nice to see the 753 in Canada too!



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11869 times:

Air Transat will probably buy Airbus. there is no such thing as "new Boeing airliner orders" coming from Canada. With that aside, I can see A330's and A340's in the fleet with short range flights handled by A321's and 757's (picked up on the used market.).

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11832 times:

WestJet orders many brand new Boeing jetliners! And don't discount the possibility of Air Transat going Boeing. Outside logic would say they'd get Airbus, but rumours from the company suggest Boeing. Only time will tell.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11832 times:

Most of the WJ 73G orders are via leasing companies, just like the new TS 332's.

Hopefully TS will stick with a mixed fleet of old & new aircraft as their yields are low. Many a previous charter airline loaded up with new aircraft exclusively only to go bankrupt. The L15 should be the ideal aircraft for TS ops for the next 5-7 years.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFallingeese From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 11796 times:

Yyz717 - about half of Westjet's 737-700's are owned (all of the ones with a tail number 2XX are owned by the company). If you get the pleasure of flying a Westjet owned 737-700, they are incredable. The leather seats with adjustable headrests are the most confortable economy seat around, not to mention the great fares.


Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11777 times:

11 of 13 73G's delivered to WJ by end of 2002 are leased from GE. The other 2 appear to be owned (or leased directly from Boeing).


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11753 times:

Of Westjet's current NG's, 10 are leased and 5 are owned, so yeah, Canada does have airlines that BUY aeroplanes from Boeing...thank God!

I would love to see Transat B767s as they DO glide very well.

Dripstick



What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11746 times:

Do you think Pichet would have made it in a Boeing? Captain Pearson probably didn't glide as long as Pichet did, so I still think the A330 is king of gliders! (plastic helps in this regard).


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineFallingeese From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11737 times:

I wonder if Air Canada would atleast refund the fuel surcharge if one of it's aircraft had to glide in? lol....
I doubt it would be too hard to find a buyer for the A330's if they decide to go Boeing.



Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11740 times:

Do you think Pichet would have landed in Gimli?  Big thumbs up

He would have turned it around and headed east.



What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 11687 times:

Do you think that TS will addopt the same philoshpy and buy some "ROCK SOLID" 767 like they bought the L-1011's? I think this is the reason that they have been able to stay profitable over the years and most of all stay in business. As well TS has been able to offer competitive rates over the years. If they can get like half of the fleet owned, this will help in the long run. I think Neil is right, keep the L's as long as possible, run them into the ground further...I was on C-FTSW and its in bad shape on the inside, but hey, i got home and i had fun riding the classic. Maybe these free aircraft can make money to purchase a sllightly mature 67 with lots of life left in it. Look at Air Canada's 762's, the low 600 fin #'s....they are the work horse of domestic travel in Canada now. For AC, atleast in my time, the 67 has been the most versitile and succsessful aircraft for them. GO BOEING, It makes sense if the price is right.

Sorry Captian, I don't think the 777 is a posibility right now....maybe in the long run, OR, if they try and make the YYZ-DEL flight work, a 777-2LR could be in the works? Or even YYZ-SYD??

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineTransSwede From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11651 times:

777's sounds very unlikely for a charter ailrine - which Air Transat mostly is if I'm not mistaken. In fact, I can't think any charter airline in the world operates a 777 - except perhaps Lauda. Do they count as charter?

Anyway, what older planes in their fleet does this fleet renewal effort cover? I'm just wondering, because replacing their A330's with 767's sounds farfetched...


User currently offlineBWIA330 From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11638 times:

I have a feeling they would just go along with the Airbus once again. More Airbus A330's and possibly A340's for new long haul routes. Just my opinion.

Actually yeah Lauda is a charter airline and they do operate the 777. But the thing is they are now getting Airbus A330-200's, Im not sure if they are giving up the 777's for A332's. Also dont forget Air Europe, which also flies the 777 and is charter.

Regards,

BWIA330


25 Yyz717 : The 772 and 343 would be an expensive mistake for TS. Moreover, the 343 would introduce another new engine type into the fleet. Given their recent add
26 FLYYUL : There are way too many A330's/A340's flying to Toronto and Montreal. Between Swiss, Austrian, Air Canada, Air Transat, Skyservice, Air France also CSA
27 Post contains images Captaingomes : no, we need more Douglas airplanes! I think TS should get some apparatuses! MD-11's like the rumours from last year suggested MD-95's for domestic and
28 747-451 : OMG, I had to pick myself up off the floor..Westjet actually may own a 737! Let's hear it for our major trading partner in the north! guess maybe thei
29 Post contains images FLYYUL : Transat was supposed to get an MD11 from World Airways, on a lease basis, not sure if it was for summer 2001 or 2002... Imagine TS MD11's WOW! Mark
30 Post contains images VonRichtofen : Just for the record the WJ 73G's that have tail numbers 2XX (the ones with the leather seats ) are the owned ones. The first 10 are leased. I remember
31 Yyz717 : The TS MD-11 2002 summer lease obviously fell thru. Damn! Can you imagine? A Canadian apparatus -11?!?!?!?!
32 FLYYUL : It was really hard to see Sabena (it was tough to see SN go down for sure), and Swissair switch from apparatus to plastic... KLM also now flies a comb
33 Gmonney : Maybe TS is restructuring....I think this move will dictate the future of TS. I mean right now they can get rid of what i am sure are expensive A330's
34 Yyz717 : I'm sick of all this f#%$ing plastic! I think AC should roll over their fleet with the 717, 73G, 738, 752/753, 764, 772/773. Incidently, the 7th AC 74
35 Slawko : Now tell us how you really feel Neil!! ( I Agree totally!!) In my opinion the only way that TS will be able to pick up new airlplanes, is if they are
36 Gmonney : I am obviously new on the scene but how did TS get the L-1011's in the first place....i know how, but did they just pay cash for them when delivered,
37 Slawko : Grant it takes 1 day to learn the 767 from the 757, Royal used to run the one day conversion course, I think it cost liek $100bucks or something like
38 Captaingomes : Right Slawko. I agree that too many airlines in the past have gone wild getting brand new airplanes with very expensive leases. Any sort of downturn a
39 Slawko : Just wanted to point out that eventually all WJ 73NG's will be owned by WJ, the only reason teh first ten were leased is because when the order was pl
40 Yyz717 : That's interesting Slawko. I got from JP Fleets update which showed 11 leased from GE to end of 2002 with most of the remaining also to be leased. Wha
41 Captaingomes : Great minds clash? filler
42 Post contains images Yyz717 : Grant, TS started in 1987 with 2 ex-AC L10's. If you look closely, the original livery was similar to AC's: the same cheatline & coloured tail was use
43 SegmentKing : trust me on this one: TS will NOT get the A321. Air Canada has to weight restrict most of it's FLL-YYZ-FLL flights w/ the A321... and that's like a 13
44 FLYYUL : Exactly, The A321 barely does YULYVR with a full load..... Again the A321 a cheap derivative a real-machine, the B757.. Mark
45 Yyz717 : Again the A321 a cheap derivative a real-machine, the B757.. I agree. Instead of ordering the 321, I think AC should have bought the 752/753. It would
46 AC320 : the A321 can do 3,000nm/5,550km with full pax according to Airbus, surely FLL-YYZ is well within that range
47 Brons2 : Wow, I never knew you Canucks were such Airbus bashers...lol!!! Why is it that you call Douglas planes "apparatus"? I don't get it how that contrasts
48 Post contains images FLYYUL : The 757 is the work-horse of many fleets. AA, DL, NW all have very dependent on the 757, and CO to a certain extent. Im proud to be associated with CO
49 FLYYUL : "the A321 can do 3,000nm/5,550km with full pax according to Airbus, surely FLL-YYZ is well within that range" -The A321 has serious range/load limitat
50 AC320 : ah well i'm sure Airbus will address these issues in the future if they can be solved
51 FLYYUL : Well when you have the same engines as the A319 on a heavier model derivative, serious operational results are to be expected. Mark
52 Slawko : Brons2 we refer to the Douglas birds as Apparatus because of an "online" translation of a french article that was posted here in which Jetsgo's MD83's
53 Yyz717 : Why is it that you call Douglas planes "apparatus"? I don't get it how that contrasts with "plastic". I would think "metal" would contrast with "plast
54 AC320 : Plastics make it happen! Or so the Plastics Council tells me, but the term is quite appropriate here
55 Post contains images Slawko : I call it plastic cuz thats what its made of!!! Composites(Airbus construction material) are not Aluminum like Boeing The apparati will always reign s
56 Gmonney : Imagine an AA Airbus....HA HA HA HA HA....it would never happen....they look like metal...., i don't think they could paint them that colour!!!! LOL T
57 Brons2 : Gmonney, AA has 34 A300-605R's. Anyways, you guys crack me up with your apparati! LOL!!! Come on down to Texas and you'll see more MD-80's than you ca
58 Yyz717 : can the 767 compete with the 363 pax that the 330's carry now? Most charter 763's have about 300 seats. would TS ever get a 743? Unlikely. Wouldn't ma
59 Post contains links and images Gmonney : Actually, the A300 and the A310 are suprisingly not classified as plastic....more of the A320 series and the A330/340 series stuff is made out of recy
60 Yyz717 : Hey Grant, that's true...the A300/A310 are technically not plastic. However, once an airline gets the A300/A310 (whether new/used) & establish a relat
61 Post contains images AirCanadaMan : Seeing as all us Canadians are anti-plastic, it makes me wonder why Mulroney wasnt? Afterall, if he was anti-plastic like the rest of the country, we
62 Post contains images Slawko : Money Talks Guess he forgot about all the MDC and Boeing employees in Canada...
63 Post contains links and images Yyz717 : New. Canadian. Metal. View Large View MediumPhoto © John Davies
64 Crj 900 : HOW MUCH WOULD I LUV to see the 764 chosen!!! Unlikely but as long as TRANSAT goes Boeing it'd make me smile. I just enjoyed a lovely 8h11m flt home t
65 Gigneil : FLYYUL, if you think the A319 and the A321 have the same engine thrust, you're nuts. You'll find a liberal use of plastic in the 777, and just wait fo
66 Post contains images BOEING747-700 : Hey they should not make the mini Airbus model planes in a Dyecast but rather a plastic, that would just be too sweet . Nuno I bet you could sell them
67 FLYYUL : Gigneil, AC is using the CFM56-5a for the A319, something like 25,000 pounds of thrust. What is AC using for the A321, the -5B? Ok fine 30,000 pounds
68 VonRichtofen : What do you guys think the chances of AC ever ordering some Boeing products again? How long do you think they'll keep their 744's? I too wish that AC
69 Gigneil : AC is going to be replacing their YVR based 744s with A346s during the Summer of 2004. The leases expire then. They delayed the arrival of said aircra
70 Post contains images Captaingomes : HAHA, plastic Airbus models ... for added realism! The cost would go down, and of course being to scale, they would also weigh less than equivalent Bo
71 AC320 : What do you guys think the chances of AC ever ordering some Boeing products again Slim to none. When you fly AC you might as well tell people youre ta
72 Captaingomes : AC320, in the near future, unless it's more 767's (unlikely), I don't see AC ordering Airbus either. But when the 7E7 comes out, they'll have to repla
73 Yyz717 : I think AC will opt for the 332 to replace the 762/763 fleet.
74 Captaingomes : Unless they use the A321 and A332 to replace the fleet, the A330 wont have the same flexibility as the 767's. A330's apparantly aren't as efficient fo
75 AC320 : I'm sure Airbus will develop something to fill the gap between A321 and A330 as soon as they can. They already have the fuselage in the A300/310/330/3
76 TK : Well I'm Canadian and this is my opinion: go move to the US if you guys love Boeing so much. Airbus is a great choice for AC. Hope Air Transat goes al
77 Post contains images Gmonney : TK, how about WestJet...can you not appreciate their fleet and success? AC will be sucessful with Airbus and thats obvious. TS probably will choose ai
78 Captaingomes : TK, Airbus makes great aircraft too, just like Boeing. But they have differences, although these differences are becoming smaller and smaller. You can
79 Yyz717 : I guess us Canadians here who like "metal Boeings" just appreciate aircraft of the past. More to that, I prefer private sector airlines & private sect
80 Post contains images Captaingomes : They better be light hearted Neil, because Boeing will out-plastic Airbus with the new 7E7. Wouldn't want any broken Canadian hearts when they realize
81 AC320 : Just as long as the planes don't say "$0.10 refund in CA" on the side, we'll be okay
82 Slawko : I spoke with a friend at WJ regarding the Lease/Own/Finance stuff going on with the NG's and basically what the deal is, Boeing couldn't produce WJ's
83 DASH8KING : Lease 1/3 of their assets own 1/3, and finance 1/3 Thats a lot better then Canada 3000's strategy they only owned 10% if I am correct or around that f
84 Captaingomes : Many airlines have a policy of leasing all or the majority of their aircraft. This ensures a modern fleet that passengers enjoy. However, Canada 3000
85 DASH8KING : And going on a shopping spree a few months earlier.
86 Yyz717 : Lease 1/3 of their assets own 1/3, and finance 1/3 This amounts to the same thing if all the aircraft are new. Financing rates will be similar to leas
87 Post contains links and images Gmonney : Now that we are on the lines of WJ, I think this picture is fitting and Neil, Great Point....here are some aircraft that you can choose from...!! View
88 Yyz717 : Exactly Grant. These ex-US 733's all date from 1984 onward and will be standard with each other. A perfect addition for WJ in lieu of expensive 73G's.
89 Post contains links and images Gmonney : I think we should switch this to a WJ post and a fleet renewal one? What sort of fligth deck is in the current 73G's? Are they glass, or are they the
90 Gmonney : Neil, There are 14 of these 733's in the desert They would be a great addition to the WJ fleet... I think if they delay the 700's or just slow them do
91 Slawko : If we lived in a country with a tranport ministry that had a brain in its collective head then adding the 733;s wo WJ's fleet would be no problem...yo
92 Yyz717 : I don't disagree Slawko but the 733 does exactly the same job as the 73G, albeit will slightly higher operating costs but much cheaper ownership costs
93 Spyderz : While leasing costs are lower for 733's, we don't know the exact leasing deals offered to Westjet and they could be quite reasonable for such a plane.
94 Fallingeese : The 737-300 was considered for Westjet instead of the 737-700. Some of the points were the fact that if they went the route of the older Boeing, then
95 Post contains images Slawko : Well not exactly Fallingeese...its a glass cockpit but still pretty much the same as the -200...the overhead panel is identical exept for two gauges,
96 Post contains images Yyz717 : Ok, this is where I disagree with Slawko! The 73G is not far more efficient than the 733, it's marginally more efficient. It's a margin more than nega
97 DASH8KING : Yes I was talking to the pilots when my flight was done and they are very proud of their new aircraft and even though I love the 732 I think the 73G i
98 Post contains images Slawko : Ok maybe it is marginally more efficient, BUT adding the 733 now would mean adding a thrid type, and adding all the costs associated with that.....tha
99 Captaingomes : I think WJ is doing the right thing. They are implementing the NG fleet at a pace that doesn't seem too brisk. They are consistently profitable. Also,
100 Yyz717 : The current WJ fleet is 23 732's and 15 73G's, give or take. When they have all NG's on hand, you can bet a good portion of them will be paid for, At
101 Gmonney : Amen Neil, I think the 733's would be a wise investment to replace the 732's (not that i want them to leave the fleet) and offer a longer more efficie
102 Slawko : Power by the hour would work I guess...but that still doesnt cover the training/certification costs, and the costs to lease/buy the engines, and imple
103 Yyz717 : Power by the hour is primarily for short term leases.
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