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Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757  
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11155 times:

N610G, a US registered and privately owned Boeing 757 aircraft was forced to land at Mumbai airport last week after intruding into Indian airspace without clearance.

The aircraft had taken off from Karachi in Pakistan and had filed a flight plan for Male in the Maldives, but was picked up by IAF radar over the coast of Gujarat state in India - a significant diversion from the flight path. Air Force jets were scrambled and the aircraft forced to land at Mumbai airport where it was boarded by commandos of the Central Industrial Security Force.

A search of the aircraft revealed live ammunition rounds as well as other suspicious items. The crew have been detained and are being interrogated by intelligence agencies and the Air Force.

This is the second instance in the last week where a US aircraft has been caught intruding into Indian airspace. A US military aircraft was forced to land at Chennai on Friday after being detected off course by radar.

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGuyBetsy1 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11088 times:

Funny why such news items are not reported by the US media. Is it because it will be too embarrassing for them?

User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11071 times:

No, I don't think its because it is too embarrassing for the US, they may have not heard about it yet.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11066 times:

The aircraft, owned by a US company called CoombCo, was on a private flight from Karachi to Male when the incident occurred. According to a news channel, One of the 11 crew members was also found to be carrying arms and ammunition.

Violations of Indian airspace by Western civilian and military aircraft have been steadily increasing over the years. A Qantas 747 aircraft departing Mumbai, had illegally flown over what was restricted airspace at Trombay housing the Atomic Research Center. Another Ukrainian An-32 chartered by a British national airdropped arms and ammunition over the eastern Indian town of Purulia (allegedly to North Eastern Militants) before their Antonov was forcelanded by IAF Migs. The British national, Peter Bleach, who is now serving his sentence in an Indian jail, is known to have links with British intelligence agencies. Just last month, a “Lufthansa Cargo” jet overflew the “no-fly-zone” over New Delhi, a place where the PM and President of India, as well as the leader of the Opposition live. Also a US Naval aircraft overflew sensitive areas housing miltary locations near the city of Chennai as it came into land.

Comment:While it is good to see that these airspace violations are being detected, there is a possibility that these detections are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
The support provided by Britain and some of our neighbours to Christian terrorists in the North East is well known. Considering that India is fighting foreign supported insurgents on atleast 2 fronts, its important that we cover our flanks and ensure maximum security of our airspace and our borders. I feel that the Indian Govt should strengthen our air-defenses even further. I think we should create “zero-tolerance zones” over which any aircraft that enters illegally should be simply shot down. That is the only way we can nip these incidents in the bud. Right now, I think we are too lax in this respect.

Another point is that US Intelligence agencies seem to have reverted to using Civilian airlines for collection of intelligence. While I understand that collection of intelligence is important, I don’t think its fair to use civilian airliners as a cover to do so. Havent the lessons from KAL007 been learnt yet? Korean airliners have been used by the US intelligence agencies in the past to snoop on Soviet defenses and atleast 2 such jets have been shot down causing civilian casualties. How fair is that?

The Qantas 747 that overflew the BARC reactors was nearly shot down by the air defense guns placed there. Who would have been responsible for the loss of so many lives? The Indian Govt for protecting its national interests? Or the Western agencies concerned who put innocent people at risk? The cloak and dagger nature of the agencies means that they would escape scrutiny!

My question is: Why should innocent civilians be put in the firing line in this manner?


-Roy


User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 970 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11044 times:

Yeah right they haven't heard about it. Its called intelligence in case you didn't know... just don't seem to have acted intelligently on those two occasions noted... accidents probably ... but still ...


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11014 times:

Another point is that US Intelligence agencies seem to have reverted to using Civilian airlines for collection of intelligence.

Roy, with all due respect I don't think the US agencies need to use civilian airliners for intelligence overflights when they have spy satellites that can read you license plate.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11009 times:

I think we should create “zero-tolerance zones” over which any aircraft that enters illegally should be simply shot down.

Sure, Roy. And when the Indian Air Force shoots down a fully pack 744, simply because of a navigation error or malfunction, what will you say then? That makes you no better than the Russians shooting down the Korean Air 747, does it?


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10978 times:

And when the Indian Air Force shoots down a fully pack 744, simply because of a navigation error or malfunction, what will you say then?

If a 744 with a nav system malfunction strays over a nuclear reactor, the smartest and most merciful solution would probably be to shoot them down.


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10975 times:


Roy, with all due respect I don't think the US agencies need to use civilian airliners for intelligence overflights when they have spy satellites that can read you license plate.


Exactly sean, they dont need to do that. Spy satellites have been around from the late 60's and agencies can make use of them. But as the KAL007 case shows civilian airlines HAVE been used to collect some kinds of intelligence, and i feel it is wrong.


That makes you no better than the Russians shooting down the Korean Air 747, does it?

Navigation error is one thing, but when an aircraft intentionally strays over sensitive areas then? ANd why do you ignore the issue of agencies using civilian aircraft? I have no problem with intellignce collection. Its the means that I am questioning here.

-Roy


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10971 times:

If it was an intellegence flight why would it take off from Pakistan (where Bin Ladin is thought to be) and fly over India which is thought of as a US ally?

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9668 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10969 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

how much aid do we give these bastards?

User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6206 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10965 times:

First, the U.S. media has been preoccupied with more important developments in recent news.

I feel that the Indian Govt should strengthen our air-defenses even further. I think we should create “zero-tolerance zones” over which any aircraft that enters illegally should be simply shot down.

Perhaps we should just shoot down Indian airliners in U.S. airspace who don't comply with ATC instructions. Get real folks! How brutal can you be?!?!? Do you want to make a political point, at the expense of hundreds of innocent lives on the air (and on the ground)? What if an airplane had an emergency and lost communications capability and had no choice but to land at the nearest suitable airport (in India). Do you want that blood on your hands?



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10959 times:

If a 744 with a nav system malfunction strays over a nuclear reactor, the smartest and most merciful solution would probably be to shoot them down.

In that case, or in the case of something that could be more sinister, Sean, like a hijack/suicide takeover of an aircraft, I wholeheartedly agree with you and Roy in that respect. But Roy just made it a blanket statement: shoot them down. Under his blanket statement, it wouldn't matter if they were over the furthest tip of India, or over a nuclear reactor, his response would be the same, and I think that goes a bit too far.


User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10958 times:

Wasn't there a accident recently where a Lufthansa Airlines Boeing 747-400 flight to Frankfurt flew off course and flew right over the Prime Minster of India's house?

The pilots that were flying the 744 are now banned from flying to India.


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10951 times:

bastards? bin laden? what???

Calm down people! Nobody knows the important facts yet...nationality of the citizens, what items there were exactly, what has happened at this point.

Talk about hysteria! Then again, we all know what dangers Qantas 744s pose to the world!

Aaron G.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16370 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10931 times:

Why would the West want to learn anything from India? India has nothing we need.

The scrambling of Indian fighters because of a straying Western civilian airliner over India seems extremely excessive. Just Indian bravado. Not sure whether it's more funny, silly, or sad.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10922 times:

Clickhappy - Don't you think your comments are a little too extreme. It's not like India shot down your aircraft. I am sure if the US saw an Iraqi or North Korean or even a Canadian aircraft entering US airspace with out permission it would do the same. This is the second time in a few days it has happened also.

The US and India have a very close relationship both military and economic. I think a few months ago the US Navy and Indian Navy did training missions a few months past of the Chennai coast.


Also some aircraft like C-17 have stopped in India on the way to Middle East for fuel so it's not like India does not like US military aircraft in it's airspace.



User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10916 times:

Yyz717 - US learns a lot from India. Indian people that move to US are one of the most intelligent people. Hey there was a girl in the space shuttle.

You will be surprised how much US does do business with India with medicine, science and technology among many other things.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10914 times:

The scrambling of Indian fighters because of a straying Western civilian airliner over India seems extremely excessive.

The scrambling of Indian fighters after an aircraft taking off from PAKISTAN enters Indian airspace illegally is definitely not excessive.

In other news, the Captain of the aircraft has been identified as John Burg of Nashville, TN.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10898 times:

In other news, the Captain of the aircraft has been identified as John Burg of Nashville, TN.

I KNEW it!! I knew that's what Roy's problem always was, but could never prove it: when it comes to the U.S., he's got a Burg up his ass!  Big thumbs up


 Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10885 times:

Here is the picture of the Boeing 757-200 at the Mumbai Airport.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/030203/137/20rk8.html


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10880 times:



Reuters photo linked from http://in.yimg.com/xp/reuters_ids_new/20030203/3422724138.jpg


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16370 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10797 times:

US learns a lot from India. Indian people that move to US are one of the most intelligent people.

"Some of the most intelligent people" ?? What does this mean? Are you saying that Indian emigrants to the US are more intelligent than American? If they're so intelligent, why can't they solve India's poverty?

Hey there was a girl in the space shuttle.

Yeah....that "Indian" girl got into space on Western, not Indian, technology.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10767 times:

Don't worry folks... Roy's got brown eyes because he's full of it.


My dad captains NW 744's to Bombay regularly, just to spy on you, Roy.

Why don't we shoot down all the indian and arabic student pilots over here that screw up ATC instructions all the time b/c they cant speak a craps worth of english, while we're at it. Stupid stupid stupid.




Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3162 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10755 times:
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With this kind of attitude, no wonder it's one of the most unstable regions of this planet...

When AI plowed through the ILS at FRA a few years ago because of pilot error, maybe it should have been shot down before too?

GET REAL...



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
25 777236ER : Bastard Indians eh? Imagine if a 757 illegally entered US airspace. Would the Americans just let it on its merry way? Of course not. Don't be fucking
26 Wing : Quantas 747,Lufthansa Cargo,All the western jets are flying over India for spying is alittle bit paranoid type of thinking in my oppinion.Although I
27 Post contains images Manni : 'With your head so far up your ass how do you manage to read what other people post?' His Indian house keeper is reading it for him. 'That makes you n
28 Tca256 : "Yeah....that "Indian" girl got into space on Western, not Indian, technology." So smart from you...an other post like this and I'll start to think th
29 Tom775257 : Wow…such xenophobia! Anyhoo, re: poverty in India, as far as I know India has not as much debt per person as the U.S.A – which is currentl
30 Voodoo : Hasn't been mentioned yet, but Indian ATC is not very good. Aircraft may be straying into `wrong' airspace thru no fault of their own.
31 N79969 : It sounds like the Indian military acted prudently in forcing this aircraft to land. That is the bottom line. It departed an openly-hostile country an
32 XFSUgimpLB41X : The weapons? This is a corporate aircraft...try bodyguards and/or the CEO's went hunting. You wouldnt believe how many rifles I see going through our
33 Jaysit : ...Yeah....that "Indian" girl got into space on Western, not Indian, technology." ... Uh, Yyz. Its called AMERICAN technology. Certainly NOT Canadian
34 Clickhappy : is Canada a state yet?
35 Aloges : Seriously, I don't get how a threat about a reasonable military action could evolve into bashing... Why do you people bother that much about where som
36 GDB : So the KAL 747 was on a US spy mission was it? Get real. The USAF had plenty of RC-135's buzzing USSR airspace then, the aged, paranoid Kremlin leader
37 Post contains images S.p.a.s. : Don??t know this intrusion of airspace was on purpose, it might have been just a navigation error.. BUT...some points deserve to be addressed: 1)Spy s
38 United777 : You have to see where India is coming from with all this. This is the second time in as many days an aircraft has entered it's airspace without permis
39 Wingman : I've never rated a thread in my life, but this one just got a full five star rating from me, classic stupidity and a stern lesson that we should be ca
40 XFSUgimpLB41X : Hey now.... I am all for forcing down aircraft straying into the wrong airspace. It's standard, smart, and in the best interests of the host country o
41 Aloges : @ Wingman: LOL... Where'd Donald??!?! He godda get dem Noogs on dem balmbrrs!!!
42 Yyz717 : Really, the paranoia and polemic on here is laughable, what is it all about, somekind of wannabe superpower penis envy towards the US? Exactly GDB. "M
43 Tkmce : Roy ***** Havent the lessons from KAL007 been learnt yet? Korean airliners have been used by the US intelligence agencies in the past to snoop on Sovi
44 Indianguy : @Alpha1 and the others: Imagine a fully loaded BA/UA jet is hijacked immediately after takeoff from Washington and the hijackers lead it towards the W
45 David L : Jaysit, while I agree on the whole with the rest of your post, I have to disagree that space technology is all American. It's American refinement of G
46 Jaysit : ...Exactly GDB. "Maybe if we force down a Western airliner, the West will notice and respect us". Dream on India... What a ludicrous, ignorant stateme
47 TKMCE : Roy ***** @TKMCE: And how do you conclude which was the TABLOID version and which was the REAL cause? You choose to believe one version which need not
48 David L : Jaysit: Fair enough, the USA is due a lot of credit for it's current space programme. I also agree with you, GDB and others that there was scope here
49 747-451 : "Another point is that US Intelligence agencies seem to have reverted to using Civilian airlines for collection of intelligence" Soooooooo that's what
50 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : "Now imagine this, a PIA jet headed towards ORD, takes a detour of, umm lets say, around 60 miles during descent, to overfly a ultra-sensitive militar
51 Post contains images Tca256 : "Why is half the nation in thr UK and the others in Canada" That's simple, just to make you open your dirty mouth...
52 Cloudy : Relax, people. The Chenai incident was with a military aircraft anyway. There is allot of US military traffic related to the Afghan war. I wouldn't be
53 Alpha 1 : Alpha1: Why don’t you READ the posts properly before you venture to comment? Do you have to be an absolute moron everyday of the year? Roy, can you
54 Gigneil : This thread has caused me to lose respect for several people I had respect for previously. On one hand, there's rational adults speaking. On the other
55 Twaneedsnohelp : like the CIA would use a slow moving highly visible 757 with weapons on board to spy on india. whatever.
56 Post contains images Mandala499 : Warning... what I am writing below could be irrelevant... I work in remote sensing and are exposed to certain means of intelligence gathering methods
57 XFSUgimpLB41X : Indianguy wrote: Imagine a fully loaded BA/UA jet is hijacked immediately after takeoff from Washington and the hijackers lead it towards the White Ho
58 Post contains images Cloudy : Mandala499, great post! Very informative and it gells with what I think I know .... Yet I wouldn't be surprised if the Indian government/ high command
59 Yyz717 : India, the US, China, Israel, Britain, France and even Russia are pretty stable and have good controls on there weapons. Pakistan is a much larger ris
60 QANTASforever : If the Indian Government had shot down a Qantas 747-400, then the Australian Government would have enacted and implemented new policy to ensure that s
61 BarfBag : You're grouping India with the US, Israel, UK and France as being stable???? Incredible! The latter 4 are democratic Western nations. India is a third
62 BarfBag : If the Indian Government had shot down a Qantas 747-400, then the Australian Government would have enacted and implemented new policy to ensure that s
63 Cloudy : Barf Bag, Excellent post. I agree that those who think that democracy leads to capitalism, and vice versea are are being dangerously nieve. Many count
64 Indianguy : @Mandala499: EXCELLENT Post there! One of the best I have seen here. -Roy
65 N79969 : Yyz717, India is nowhere near as unstable as Pakistan. I agree with BarfBag. He provided a very good explanation. Also I think the relatively strong t
66 Yyz717 : Yes, I agree. Barfbag's response did highlight some differences betw India & Pakistan.
67 Delboy : Fantastic guys, starts out as one thread and develops into another.
68 Post contains images Donder10 : Comparing India and Pakistan politically is like comparing umm cheese and chalk Technically,isn't Pakistan now a democracy now?(the election was a sha
69 ROSWELL41 : To Jaysit: Actually Dr. Goddard, an American, pioneered rocketry in the New Mexican desert prior to either the Germans or Russians. When Von Braun cam
70 Lazyb : Do any of you have computers? http://www.geocities.com/thehugmonster/animations/explodes.gif DOD contractor Raytheon Services (Comco Corp)- Not sure o
71 Post contains links and images FACT : Interesting that this aircraft is owned by defence contractor Raytheon: View Large View MediumPhoto © Mark Durbin View Large View MediumPhoto &co
72 Post contains images Mandala499 : Wow ! Such planes deserve interception if straying too far off course near restricted zones ! Privately owned by a US Defence Contractor, they can put
73 Pat : Hi guys, About the topic first : It looks obvious that when overflying a non authorized area (on the top of it a it sensitive one) you can put yoursel
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