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Air Canada Job Cuts Coming  
User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Air Canada will reportedly cut up to 10,000 jobs and may be forced to sell-off JAZZ.

Here is the bad news...

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035777504682&call_pageid=968350072197&col=969048863851

Dripstick


What's another word for thesaurus?
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

Another news link...

http://www.webfin.com/en/news/news.html/?id=15309



What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Its kind of a mix of good and bad news I think....Bad news for those 10000 people, but these are cuts that should have been made in 2000/2001 after the merger and not now when they are on bankruptcy's doorstep...Hopefully they will be able to lean up the operation enough to get out of the hole....


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3833 times:

"CUPE administrator Ken Hopper, recently appointed to oversee the CUPE Air Canada component, said he is not expecting major job cuts today and that his members have job guarantees until 2005 under a recently ratified contract.

"I'm going there with an empty notebook, waiting to hear what they tell me," he said. "

What an idiot....It's stuff like that that is going to put AC under!!!!



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

Air Canada is stupid for offering no layoff guarantees for certain members. Even the government doesn't offer that to its workers, so what is going on at Air Canada??? Seems like they want to go under.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

Maybe under protection they can get rid of the people/dead weight that they need to to get themeselves back on track....On top of Jazz I think we will see Technical Services next on the selling block...


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3796 times:

If people's jobs are protected, and they have to get rid of them, how is that a good thing for AC? I just don't see what your argument is, that's all.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineAirCanadaMan From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3797 times:

According to the CBC, Air Canada is selling: (along with Jazz)

"49 per cent of Air Canada Technical Services. ACTS maintains Air Canada's fleet of 220 aircraft, as well as other airline customers. The division employs approximately 8,000 staff with six major Canadian maintenance base centres in Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver. "

"A "significant stake" in its Airport Ground Handling Services business, which is being made into a separate division. The ground handling operations provide customer check-in, ticketing, baggage handling, ground equipment service and aircraft ramp handling. The division employs approximately 8,500 people in Canada, the U.S., Europe and Asia. "

Now thats interesting...why would they sell something as key as ground services? Is it more viable to sell it to somoene, and then contract them out to perform the same services you once owned?

I realize it works with small airlines (Westjet uses Hudson General, or whatever they are now..), and at small stations, but at places like Pearson and Dorval?..not to mention a much larger and varying fleet...

Either way, Air Canada will never be the same as it was before Canadian came along, and most certainly not as it was as a Crown Corporation.


User currently offlineFallingeese From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

Jazz has been on the selling block since it was created, and even before that. Jazz was set up to be more attractive to potential purchasers. Zip's new whiter scheme, although called a "slight tweak" by Steve Smith, will save the carrier $50000!


Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

I agree with AirCanada man re AC ground services. Indeed it is a vital component of the carrier, and given the fact that AC may even downsize
somewhat, it would still, in my opinion be too large an operation to relinquish control of such an important area of service to pax. It would diminish the "idea" of a mainline carrier in pax minds to check-in with, who?,
Hudson General? (for instance).

I also agree with those here who stated these cuts are perhaps late in coming,
and the "no-layoff" guarantees was an absolutely asinine decision, especially given the fact that AC is part of an industry which is tremendously volatile,
to say the least. I have worked in the airline industry as an FA, and now in the high end corporate incentive/meetings/groups arena, and know full well this industry may perhaps offer incredible opportunities for business and personal travel, which I've enjoyed to the max; it just does not offer
security and guarantee along with it. It never ceases to amaze me just how AC, and especially the collective bargaining divisions turned a blind eye and
deaf ear to this fact.

Air Canada Jetz being sold off is no surprise to me. Absolutely wrong idea at the wrong time (high end corporate charters?).

And don't forget, when all is said and done, Air Canada has a debt load of
$12 million, and climbing. Perhaps they painted themselves into this corner.
After all, being the dominant carrier (understatement) in a country where the demographics do not support industry diversity and ample room for side-by-side competition, just WHO is going to take on ACTS? And if someone (or firm) does purchase Air Canada Tech Services, will THEY themselves not be at the mercy of the fate of AC itself? TS Has their own Tech division, as does
Westjet. Hmmmm, makes me wonder.

Canadi>nBoy
YYZ


User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3746 times:

The AC purchase of Canadi>n has greatly contributed to the ill financial health AC presently finds itself in. But remember that Ottawa placed incredible pressure on the AC board to purchase the dying CP. That said, AC found/finds itself in the same position PWA did after the ill advised purchase of Wardair International. This may sound brutal, and insensitive (especially considering the fact I hail from a CP family) but perhaps one harsh lesson to be learned here is to simply "let the competition die".

When I look at the whole AC picture, I can now see why Milton is so gung-ho
on expanding Tango and Zip. But Milton beware, for when you place all of your eggs in one "division", be prepared for the unpredictable turn of both the economy and the tastes and fickle demands of the travelling public. Not to mention the roller coaster twists and turns of the industry itself, aside from
the economic factors. Like everything else at AC, the ideas were implemented perhaps too long after their initial discussions. But to be fair to AC, some of the present industry writing was not on the wall in 1999-2000. Perhaps the future AC (just conjecturing) will be comprised of a "mainline" international division and the low-cost North American division. Wouldn't surprise me.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Months ago the rumour was that ACTS was going to be partially sold to Lufthansa Technik. Don't forget that while TS and WJ may already have their own operations or maintenance contractors, that lots of foreign contract work is brought in - of all the businesses they're thinking of spinning off (Aeroplan, Jazz, handling) it's probably the least dependant on AC itself.

Will they sell minority interests in everything, or will some of it be sold off completely, that is a question to be answered as well. The more it gets dismantled, the more one has to wonder what will be left but a loose collection of affiliated operations. It might be okay for now, but how well will that work in the long term as the parts drift further apart?


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4980 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

Air Canada lost $90 mil alone on Jazz last year...

Again, the domestic market is flat because of Chretien and sons... lets keep taxing the nation to death.... A**Holes..

Mark


User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

AC183, I neglected to think of all the foreign contracts at ACTS. Thanks for bringing that up. Duh!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Slawko wrote:
"CUPE administrator Ken Hopper, recently appointed to oversee the CUPE Air Canada component, said he is not expecting major job cuts today and that his members have job guarantees until 2005 under a recently ratified contract.
"I'm going there with an empty notebook, waiting to hear what they tell me," he said. " What an idiot....It's stuff like that that is going to put AC under!!!!"


You would be surprised as to how "incestuous" an airline and its employees can be. By this I mean that one would think that the employees and unions
representing the bargaining units would be up on current industry conditions and events ie UAL Ch. 11. And to a degree, they are aware of the current health of certain carriers and the industry at large. However, I can tell you first-hand from being with an airline for 5 years, that not only are many employees oblivious to overall conditions within the industry, they are also shockingly oblivious to conditions within their own "family" per se. Remember, I said "many", not "all". I have had several discussions with AC cabin crews on some of my flights, and there were occasions where myself and my work colleagues brought them "up to date" on AC. Many of these FA's and pursers honestly were in the dark where AC was concerned (guess they tossed their CUPE monthly newsletters!) And I can't say I was surprised at this. (Note, I am by no means implying I am the industry "Know-all", as some think themselves to be...far from it).

In my opinion, and experience, this "thinking inside the box" attitude extends to the unions as well. Now, certainly, CUPE knows the situation at UAL and AMR, for example, but their primary vision is focused on Air Canada, and their division members, which, theoretically speaking it should be. But this attitude can be a detriment and an Achilles heel when it comes to what lies in the best interest of its bargaining members. Do the unions assess, for example, UAL or AMR conditions (which are a reflection of the North American sector as a whole)? Yes, and no. Yes, they see and hear about current labour negotiations going on at other carriers, but no, they seem not to ascertain that these conditions and "environmental" factors may somehow apply to their own carriers and employees future. In short, what you have is the classic "doesn't apply to us" syndrome. Dangerous territory in which to walk.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

What has happened to AC, UA and the other established high carriers is that the LCC concept has tranformed the industry and cemented with customers that flying is indeed a commodity: the lowest cost provider wins. The LCC concept grew during the late 90's but exploded after 9-11.

AC et al are now stuck with restrictive high-cost union contracts out of step with the new revenue environment.

If AC does shrink drastically in the coming year in order to survive, this will provide more oppy for growth by Jetsgo, WJ et al. We may then see a truly balanced domestic competitive industry with no dominant carrier.

Either way, the Sr mgmt at AC and the AC union leadership have shown themselves over the past few years to be completely inept at running an airline. It's time for bombastic Milton to go.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Robert (Arnold Ziffle "Green Acres")
Milton, has had only one item on his agenda whilst at AC: Robert Milton's
stock options. I cannot believe how he has steered this carrier into a sea
of confusion, not to mention a $12 Billion (approx) debt load. True, the debt was there, and climbing when Uncle Miltie "boarded", but talk to a lot of AC employees, and what you'll hear is severe anger and confusion as to what has become of Air Canada. They simply have little or no idea what direction their carrier is headed in; what the mandate is.

Bad and "downer" news for the AC employees, and perhaps especially poignant for the former Canadi>n Airlines International workers, who have more than seen their share of concessions and grief in their careers (and lives). But, when all is said and done, perhaps the AC employee groups could have softened the inevitable blow by focusing on the industry health and trends, and aligned and revised contracts a few years back. Mind you, hindsight in indeed 20/20. While I understand the urgent need for concessions (and layoffs) at AC, one cannot fault the ex-CP workers for sighing a collective groan at giving back wages once again. You have to have worked for CP or know CP people and the Canadi>n envrionment, especially in the last few years, to understand just how battle weary and TIRED these men and women are. However, the battles with Canadi>n have made the ex-CP
employees one tough bunch of cookies. When I flew FRA-YYZ in November of 2002, the AC FA's (all of them, and seniors) expressed a genuine fear of working alongside their CP counterparts, once seniority issues are decided upon (yet another mess at AC).



User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3620 times:

When I flew FRA-YYZ in November of 2002, the AC FA's (all of them, and seniors) expressed a genuine fear of working alongside their CP counterparts, once seniority issues are decided upon (yet another mess at AC).

Why are they fearful? Fearful of what?

The inability of the unions incidently to resolve the AC vs CP seniority issues has contributed to the inefficiency at AC.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3607 times:

The frustrating part is that the attitude in the "galleys" right now is "we've seen and heard it all before and we lived".

Yeah...

Let's see now... what's left of AC... 5% of their planes is actually OWNED by them. With a supposed sale of Jazz, ACtech and Aeroplan. That leaves them with... uh... what to fall back on like we've done in the last few years? Warehouse full of swizzle sticks? Nope. Cara's.

I know! Thermal ticket printers! There are a LOT of those at Pearson and they are worth a hefty sum. High tech stuff. That's right! All Check in agents shall hand write paper boarding passes.

Whew! Another year taken care of.


User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3597 times:

"Why are they fearful? Fearful of what?"

Quite a bit, it would appear. As I stated earlier, anyone who has even a basic knowledge of Canadi>n and its turbulent last years knows full well just how angry the Canadi>n employees were, and still are. These groups (pilots,
FA's, mechanics, ground services, etc.) have been through the ringer with
CP. They agreed to concession after concession, and through NO fault of their own, they were the victims of horrid mis-management and extremely bad decision making by the ex-CP management group. Subsequently, and especially in the last decade of Canadi>n's existence, the unions themselves became more than bitter, and strengthened in terms of collective "unity".
The ex-Canadi>n employees have grouped together VERY strongly.

What does this have to do with Air Canada's bargaining groups/divisions? A lot. There are basically two camps at AC now, AC and ex-CP. Remember,
the ex-CP bargaining groups have seen their share of stress and, and are very savvy and extremely shrewd. In short, they are very "street smart". The Air Canada bargaining divisions, having faced nowhere near the volatile working environment the CP groups did, are much more complacent overall (even several Air Canada FA's noted this to me). Since the takeover of CP by AC, the ex-Canadi>n crews and employees have banded together like you would not believe. They have aggressively maneuvered their way into top "AC" union
local positions, thereby calling the shots ala "Canadi>n style". The AC FA's told me the CP crews have sabotaged AC ballots for union members voting on local division heads (this, they said, is denied by the CP crews,) yet it would appear ex-Canadi>n pilots, FA's and ground staff now hold the vast MAJORITY of union local key positions at AC. ex-CP crews have successfully thwarted AC members from voting by also changing dates and locations of bargaining division locals by infiltrating the AC employee websites.

The AC crews have told me that they have never seen anything like the
bitterness and anger directed at them from the ex-CP groups.

In short, ex-Canadi>n crews/employees are now literally calling the union shots at Air Canada, much to the anger and apprehension of "AC" employees. There have been many violent confrontations between Air Canada and ex-CP crews (at union meetings, as the seniority lists still have yet to be merged), and more than several AC employees have told me that the CP crews were absolutely vicious, with many physical assaults inflicted on AC by ex-CP.
Police now are a mandatory presence at Air Canada union meetings, and, it has been said, at YYZ and YVR bases. The ex-Canadi>n employees, from having been through their own CP hell in the past, are now, as the AC people put it, on the seniority list warpath. Now that ex-Canadi>n holds the key union local positions system wide, they are in a prime position to steer the bargaining division decision in their favour (CP wants "date of hire" to be the deciding factor in the merged lists; AC wants "1 in 3/4" as the merging directive).

The ex-CP people have more than communicated to AC people that they
will fight this to the bitter end. They have had enough of being the "underdog". They feel they have been through their own CP hell in the past, are now, as the AC people put it, on the seniority list warpath.
The anger is so severe that AC FA's and CP FA's have their own crew check-in areas at some bases. And don't even mention Robert Milton and the board to these ex-CP employees. They feel they have been treated like garbage and, as one CP FA put it "we were reluctantly taken in like unwanted orphans by Milton. He wanted the CP Asian routes, but had to take us in the deal".

The above is not my input or expression of how "I see it". These are incidents and events described to me by more than several Air Canada crews, and ex-Canadi>ners.

Anyway, I could go on with many AC vs CP incidents, but I need a coffee.




User currently offlineSafeFlyer From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 627 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3592 times:

I agree completely with the fact that everybody is confused about what's going on. Remember, when they announced 2nd and 3rd quarter results, everybody was praising their achievements... But now, from what I understand and as been very-well explained by Canadi>anBoy, AC has been a complete mess since the merger with CP and I came to conclusion long ago that Milton has to be replaced by someone with more vision, charisma and business leadership. Having degrees in economics and marketing does not make you necessarily a good businessman, a respected "gestionnaire". Unions need to make concessions in order for AC to survive, especially with the imminent attack of Iraq and the potentially devastating consequences. Largescale but relatively small pay cuts of maybe 5-6% along with layoffs are a necessity even If that means going to court for AC.

Selling important and valued assets such as ACTS and GS will only decrease the overall value of the company. Such moves represent maybe quick cash on a short-term basis, but dangerous moves on the long-term basis and curioulsy remind me the slow decline of the PanAm empire.

Instead the company could:
-return and store the remaining 737s in the mainline and Tango fleets witch are costly to maintain and instead replace and increase the daily flight hours of the A319/20 a/c wich are more fuel-efficient to improve the productivity. (That also means less a/c type in the fleet).

-Reduce turnaround times of domestic and transborder flights to a maximum of 40 minutes If possible.

-Transfer to Zip or Tango all of the remaining flight/destinations of the mainline wher the J product is unprofitable as well as the Rapidair flights.

-Reduce the number of J class seats on selected intl routes (such as charters to the Caribean) and low-yield intl routes.

-Increase the number of Y seats even at the expense of legroom If that means more cost-savings and lower fares for the passengers, precisely what consumers are looking for today.

-Closing some US flights on which there are very few profits to be made and redeploy capacity to new, more profitable destinations or, in the worst case, returning a/c to the lessors.

Those are my thoughts that I wanted to share. I still believe AC can be viable, but dramatic cost-cutting measures and a new management team are required for them to survive in the current environment.






User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3582 times:

Safeflyer, excellent points.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3565 times:

Thanks for the details CanadianBoy. That's shocking! To think that labour relations (not just union/mgmt, but intra-union) could be so bad!

All the more reason NOT to fly AC. The non-merging of the flight crews & separate crew check-in areas adds cost & inefficiency that is passed on to the flying public. So when I fly AC, I'm playing extra to cover the cost of this union infighting. NO THANKS!




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineRindt From Germany, joined May 2000, 930 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

Neil,

While I agree completely about what you're saying about how the low-cost structure of the Canadian skies has essentially changed air-travel as we know it, your choice to NOT fly with Air Canada doesn't help them get out of the red ink.

Which brings me to my point. Air Canada is one of the only airlines in the world with an 80% market share in its own country(roughly, I don't know the exact amount down to the last dot) not making any money. Why? Because, simply put : there is no loyalty by their customers anymore. They've continuously treated them like shit time and time again, that people like Neil would be willing to say, fly YVR-SEA on Horizon, and catch AA to NRT, or OZ to ICN because they're fed up with dealing with AC's crap. It's all the small things that count - like not upgrading a frequent flyer because an FA would have to walk 30 ft to grab an economy meal to the biz-class when not having enough biz-class meals. Once Air Canada disolves this "we own you, and you should feel lucky enough to have us" pompous attitude they dish out, they will continue to suffer from dis-loyalty. The only way I see it changing, is by kicking yankee Robby Milton to the curb, and bringing in someone fresh, with a clear mandate - that focuses on the customers (after all, they're the only ones able to get them into black ink again). AC desperately needs someone new to the picture - who isn't favoured by either CP or AC, so the bitter sentiments can be left behind, and CP employee get what deserve - one-to-one on seniority list. One would also think it would be a good time to refresh the public image with a new scheme, to at least give the traveling public the idea of a unified company - but of course, where does the money come from?

It's the beginning of the end for Air Canada, but is it really? We all know the gov't will step-in and fork out whatever is necessary to keep the airline running. Meanwhile, airfares increases, staff continue to get more bitchy - and taxes go up as a result... yeah, it's a win-win situation... not.  Yeah sure
Milton knows this, so he couldn't give a rats-ass from here on in what goes on with the company - we need someone new, and NOW.

-Rob




What other people think of you is none of your business!
User currently offlineCrj 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 594 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

Well I can tell you this much, at least from a Jazz perspective...there has been NO and I emphasize NO violent, nasty, childish outbreaks of any type between the former AC and CP people at our company. Why is that? Well because we had a civilized and reasonably focused merge. Our seniority and other issues were dealt with prior. What goes on at mainline is unbelievable, but, I have no pity for them. At the former CRAL, CP mainline people walked all over us as did the mainline AC to their former regionals. What goes around comes around and you reap what you sow. If you are nasty, some day it'll come back to bite ya in the ass. So now the two of them can fight between each other like a bunch of kids till they kill themselves. As for the sale of our company, that's an interesting one. AC is dependant upon us to provide feeder service and obviously we need them for market share as well. I can't imagine WHO would purchase us, the only possibilty and this is far fetched at best would be Deluce(ie REGCO) but i highly doubt it. Interesting times folks.

User currently offlineCessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

Hey there!

Just to let you guys know I have been to YEG, YYC, YUL and YVR at least a half dozen times and I have never seen or heard of this crew check- in area.

There is Police presence at the meetings I can confirm this, I've been there.

All F/A's will be integrated in March.

Although there is some bitterness with a select few (of course, they are the most vocal), the general consensus is that either side cannot wait to get this over with and integrate.

The only lingering agenda is the "Burkett award" that stipulates the seniority of crew by their date of hire with AC. Although the award has been implemented, ex- Cail's are appealing that decision.

"ex-Canadi>n crews/employees are now literally calling the union shots at Air Canada"



Not exactly true, no one is calling the shots as AC Cupe is in the middle of an election proccess. Pamela Sachs, Richard Nolan and Claire Renaud are still in the race for the election which are running right now as I type. Running against them is a mixed orig. AC/ ex-Cail component, Martin Bergeron, Sheena Murdoch and Tom Slade. Results will be tabulated when the voting ends Feb 20th.

Safeflyer,

I agree with you, these are all excellent points!

Grégoire


25 Canadi>nBoy : Yyz717 wrote: "The inability of the unions incidently to resolve the AC vs CP seniority issues has contributed to the inefficiency at AC." True enough
26 Mark_D. : I think it was silly of Milty to sort of publicly strut a few months ago --when AC had that moneymaking quarter and he was trumpteting like 'when so
27 Canadi>nBoy : "Although there is some bitterness with a select few (of course, they are the most vocal), the general consensus is that either side cannot wait to ge
28 Yyz717 : Well, maybe the ex-CP and current AC FA's should just be glad they have jobs. Life's too short..... We're all CANADIANS right?????
29 Canadi>nBoy : Hmmmm, yeah, when all is said and done, life is indeed too too short. And as I stated in an earlier post, the AC proposed seniority of "1 in 3" is one
30 Crj 900 : Well if AC files for protection, that means union agreements could go as well, along with that(AND OF SPECIAL INTEREST TO ALL OF US AT JAZZ) will go t
31 Yyz717 : I'm surprized actually that AC mainline operates CRJ's with the higher pilot salaries. No other US major flies RJ's in their mainline! The RJ's should
32 Skywatcher : Last week I flew YUL-YYZ-YUL. I counted 17 separate,direct employees working a 50 minute flight that had 53 people on board. Most of the 17 employees
33 Lasbagman : Canadi>n Boy, GlobeGround North America, Ex- Hudson General groundhandles Air Canada and Tango in LAS. We are completely trained in Air Canada procedu
34 Lymanm : Canadi_nboy, thank you for bringing to light these stories of AC crassness during the merger. I don't think anyone here can deny that CP employees hav
35 Lymanm : "No other US major flies RJ's in their mainline!" Remember yyz717 that the US regional pilots and FAs get paid in USD and in many cases make more in t
36 Cessnapimp : "A select few? With all due respect, from what I've been told by both AC and CP FA friends, the bitterness extends far beyond a select few employees."
37 Crj 900 : Just a point of interest and I may have mentioned this elsewhere....Jazz does NOT want AC's old RJs. They are amoungst some of the first produced and
38 Yyz717 : Is there a firm plan by AC to retire/remove the CRJ-100 fleet and slowly (or deliberately?) transfer all current CRJ routes to Jazz? Is AC restricted
39 Post contains images Canadi>nBoy : Lasbagman wrote: "GlobeGround North America, Ex- Hudson General groundhandles Air Canada and Tango in LAS. We are completely trained in Air Canada pro
40 Post contains images Canadi>nBoy : Cessnapimp wrote: "They are either hypocrits with you or with me..." Hypocrites? No, I don't doubt what I've heard from my ex-CP friends, or my AC fri
41 Cessnapimp : Well, One thing's for sure, we'll know real fast on how it all comes together as all (ALL) AC F/A's will receive, for the first time since the merger,
42 Canadi>nBoy : LOL! Yeah, I saw that. Needs to be fine-tuned a bit, lyrics wise, but at LEAST there is a display of a sense of humour going on there.
43 Yyz717 : Canadianboy, while you blame Robert Milton exclusively, I think the AC employees deserve alot of the blame for the current poor state of AC, primarily
44 Canadi>nBoy : Yyz717, I went back and re-read what I wrote, and I must say I absolutely concur with your statement. I'm afraid I was subconsciously "holding back" f
45 Crj 900 : yyz717 in answer to your question, AC is supposed to retire the CRJ from their fleet in 04 with the end of the leases. Depending on how many CRJs Jazz
46 Post contains links and images Yyz717 : Thanks for your response CRJ-900. Given that AC has ~25 CRJ's, it seems reasonable that the Jazz fleet will eventually grow to the full 29 CRJ's once
47 Lasbagman : Canadi>n Boy, Working for Canadi>n Airlines and Candi>n Holidays was a great experience, one for which I shall never forget. I was with the for 11 yea
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