A330DAT From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 469 posts, RR: 2 Posted (9 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5671 times:
New hope has been given for the former Delsey Airlines/VG Airlines.
A Canadian investor which owned part of former L-Air (AeroLyon) will be taking over the Delsey Airlines/VG Airlines operations.
An AOC (Air Operators Certificate) has been requested for the operation.
2 A340-300 (stored ex-Singapore Aircraft) aircraft are to be aquired through AAM (Airbus Asset Management), the aircraft remarketing arm of manufacturer Airbus.
Until now no startup date or destinations they will fly has been given, however chances are that the profitable Yerevan-Brussels-Los Angeles route will be reinstated (A large portion of the flight being sold on behalf of Armenian Airlines)
A new name for te airline will also be revealed in due time.
MD-11er From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 201 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5580 times:
There is an article in the Airlinerworld of Feb 2003 that says that they would start again on YYZ and YUL.
But with the ex-company A332 and not the A343
I am curious to know what it will give this time but wish them a lot of luck.
Sabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5516 times:
Thanks a lot for the news, A330DAT!
I don't want to be pessimistic, but, besides the 'profitable' Yerevan-BRU-LAX flight, what else can they do?
It's impossible to start long haul flights ex BRU without a feeder market. Ok, you can have an interline agreement with VEX (like Delsey/VG), but an insider told me that only a few pax of the ones on board of the Delsey aircrafts came from a European destination on VEX.
FLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4784 posts, RR: 55 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 days ago) and read 5280 times:
"There is an article in the Airlinerworld of Feb 2003 that says that they would start again on YYZ and YUL.
But with the ex-company A332 and not the A343"
You are talking about L'AIr.... and L'Air no longer exists..
A330DAT From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 469 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5094 times:
Guys, lets get one thing straight. The article in Airliner World refers to the initial plans that were on the table when L-Air first presented itself.
Back then the plan was to have two divisions. One flying out of France, the other out of Belgium. The whole was called L-Air.
Today, L-Air (AeroLyon) does not exist anymore. It went bankrupt. However one of the original L-Air investors (a Canadian firm) has decided on it's own to pursue the Belgian project, while abandoning the idea to start something out of France since there is too much competition on thet front (although with AirLib out of the picture that situation has changed somewhat).
SN-A330 - You're right. Why go from the A330 to the A340??? Well, to begin with we all know Delsey Airlines/VG Airlines went bankrupt, meaning the owner of the 3 A330-200's, namely ILFC (International Lease Finance Corporation) had repossessed the aircraft and made them available again on the market. This time leasing prices had gone up. Malaysia Airlines presented itself and made an offer. ILFC gave Delsey Airlines the chance to match the offer. Since they were already operating the aircraft they had the first choice, but that didn't happen. The result we all know. Then came AAM (Airbus Asset Management) who presented the A340-300. Quite a good deal for the leasing of these aircraft has been negotiated.
I don't know if the A340 is the right choice. Personally I would of chosen to start with the 767-300, and later (If growth permits) increase capacity and move on to larger aircraft. As Sabena_690 mentioned, a feeder is absolutely necessary as well, if they want to have any chance of success. To be taken up in the CRS (Computer Reservations Systems) WORLDWIDE is also a must (remember, you couldn't even buy Delsey Airlines tickets out of the states unless you contacted the airline yourself). Let's hope they know what they're doing. They say they have learnt from their mistakes from the past. I hope they will. Only time will tell.
@ FLYYUL - The YUL (Montreal) and YYZ (Toronto) flights you're talking about were supposed to be out of Paris. When you look at all the flights that will be offered on the YUL-Paris routes this summer, compared to the Brussels-Montreal, then you would agree that the last here is underserved. Hey, one day perhaps. Never say never. Will it be with the new L-Air??? Sobelair? BAP?
FLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4784 posts, RR: 55 Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5066 times:
I was extremely surprised that VG didnt try Montreal before Boston. Boston did well for SN, but it wasnt BRU based pax thats for sure. How many people wanna go to BRU from BOS vis a vis YUL? VG knew full well that they had no "hubbing" in BRU..
Sabena recorded their highest load factor in Montreal (sureits not indicative of the yield).
In essence what you have are two of the largest French speaking cities in the world, with no direct access except for 3 weekly Air Transat flights up coming this summer.
Air Canada, knowing full well that they would be succesful on YUL-BRU, wont fly the route because it is not a YYZ based route. Despite this, Air Canada keeps venturing into all these "Tourist" markets such as DUB/MAN/GLA/FCO/AMS/MAd (they are nothing more but that).. if YYZ-AMS could work, YULBRU could be even better, but im not AC.
The door is wide open for the next charter airline to YUL.
and as for Montreal-Paris: Air Transat, Columbus, Air Canada, Air France, Aeris, Corsair.... argh
Sabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4896 times:
@A330DAT: thanks (again) for the explanations!
@Established02: TransCaribbean Airways with B747
Sabena recorded their highest load factor in Montreal (sureits not indicative of the yield).
Indeed: load factor is different of yield. I believe that, following the figures, Montreal was one of the destinations with the lowest yield of Sabena.
Anyway, I hope that this initiative will be a big succes, BIAC urgently need some widebodies to increase it's annual passengers, and we may not forget the spotters who also like to get something new from time to time
A330DAT From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 469 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4758 times:
ConcordeBoy is right: SN's most profitable N. American route was BRU-CVG; when it was still a DL partner.
However that was only in the period of the partnership with Delta, due to Delta’s Cincinnati hub.
FLYYUL - Boston WAS indeed the most profitable North American route in the Sabena days, generating much Business travel, thus high yields. But again, that was in the time that Sabena had over 100 destinations in Europe and the African continent as well as Delta or American Airlines on the American side acting as feeders. Something VG Airlines did not anticipate and we’re not even mentioning the current economic downturn here!
Montreal would definitely of been the better choice. A daily flight may be too much here (again the feeder problem) but 2 or three flights a week would have been no problem! Travel agencies are hungry for the opportunity to sell tickets on the route. The yields may indeed be slightly lower but at least you’d FILL UP your aircraft .
If they do decide to fly to Montreal I would strongly urge the new VG Airlines to make a code share deal with let’s say Virgin Express on one end and JetsGo on the other. Of course aggressive marketing campaign would be of the utmost importance.
FLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4784 posts, RR: 55 Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4736 times:
Funny thing..
Patrick Malacord, the SN chief of Canada back then, confided that YUL was one of the few profitable SN routes, and SN's failure is exactly why OS decided to jump in the oppurtunity..
Although I wish those ex-Sabena guys all the best, I think they should learn from VG/Delsey and think about what they are planning once more. In my opinion it's just impossible to get to profitability if you start longhaul services out of market like BRU with 5 A340-300s ...
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
25 Backfire: Air Transport Intelligence names the airline as Belgium Universal Airways and says it plans to launch in May... "...linking the Canadian cities of Tor
26 Capt.Picard: Hi Just wondering. What is the exact reason for this new project? Is it in response to a definite, significant demand for these routes, or is this jus
27 Pat: Hi everybody ! Well, good luck to VG if it ever starts...As I said above, the staff deserves something better ( for lots of them 2 bankrupts in a year
28 FLYYUL: Pat, As long as YULBRU did well... I dont care about the rest.. But I still do not understand why VG did not come ot Montreal before Boston.. Mark
29 Pat: Mark, May be you don't care but some other do ... There are other aiports than YUL if you see what I mean ? Cheers, Pat
30 CX747: So, the airline didn't make money the first time with A330s and went belly up, so now they are going to try with the A340. As others have said, the ma
31 AirDD: Setting up a new airlines is not easy and costs of lot of money for marketing and so on; it can take a while before they can break even. The lesson l
32 FlyAirbus: to Pat: ... Why do they (SNBA) not take a 4th Airbus?..why not fly to JFK? Why do you keep bringing up this SN Brussels thing? They are loosers! They
33 Sabena 690: With 100 million Euros (100mil. US) lost last year they have gotten Nowhere. Do you know examples of airlines without looses in their first year of ex
34 DragonRapide: Frederic - try VirginBlue and Jetblue(?)
35 Sabena 690: Hi DragonRapide, Indeed, maybe some low cost carriers but as far as I know, it is VERY rare that a new airline (and certainly with a small home market
36 Apuneger: It's very unlikely that any business will be profitable after the first year... Ivan
37 Pothiabs: SNBA will never fly to the US, because AA-BA will never allow them to do so. They want to concentrate all NAT-traffic towards LHR.
38 Pat: "SNBA thought they were clever, saying they were going to fly to the most profitable routes only. Where are they today?? With 100 million Euros (100m
39 FlyAirbus: Pat:...Of course it's normal that a startup airline loses money in the beginning, however we're talking about one hundred million Euros (or dollars) h
40 LJ: What I'm talking about here is that SN Brussels Airlines shows no sign of improvement whatsoever. They are at a standstill. Loadfactors are staying th
41 SN-A330: @ FlyAirbus: for somebody living in Canada you seem to know SNBA's situation quite well I must say. Or are you just putting together a few rumours? Re
42 Pothiabs: Drop in traffic is quite normal for the months of December and January. Problem for SNBA is that there is not much to be topped off anymore...the blee
43 JetMark: The airline involved is B.U.A. Belgium Universal Airways, based in Toronto (C). Their website? This is the official website of BUA http://www.l-air.co
44 AAMD11: Well Said SN-A330! I have no rootings in the Belgian airline business, nor do i know much at all about any of the airlines that currently exist in tha
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