Positive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3086 times:
What was the actual cause of the KAL 747-200 crash at Stansted airport in December 1999?? I don't recall any cause having ever been mentioned in the news and i'm wondering was it the cargo that caused it to explode??
Positive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2671 times:
Shouldn't the captain have cross checked his ADI with the FO's ADI? If the crew knew the Captains ADI was "unreliable" then shouldn't they have been weary when it displayed differently to the FO's? This is why there are 2 ADI's fitted to IFR aircraft to prevent an accident if one fails.
KAL_LM From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 497 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2539 times:
Yes, he probably should have, but there were certain cultural infuences on the situation as well. Even if the captain had been wrong, the FO would not have said much, and even if he did the captain would have ignored him, because he was the captain. It is the whole senior/junior idea (and in KAL the whole military vs civilian) that seems to permeate Korean culture (I'm not an expert, I just work with them!). This puts a huge damper on crew communication and resource management. Also, this is why after the crash, a program was put into place at KE to hire ex-pat. pilots and to increase the number of civilian trained pilots and to start working the older military minded pilots out. So even if the FO had noticed that the ADI was wrong (which from what I gather he did and the FE as well) the Captain would have overidden them and their concerns, as he was the most senior man on-board and in control. Unfortunately we all know what happened.
(note: I'm not making any judgements, just relaying observations)
is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just a train?
Positive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2508 times:
I understand what you are talking about! I've heard of those things within some carriers too. It just seems like such a waste to lose a 747 over something as mundane as an ADI fault! Imagine if that 747 had been carrying pax instead of freight???
777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2462 times:
It's all very well for someone to sit in an office and declare "crews should use CRM!" and "if THIS happens then do THIS." In reality, that doesn't happen. You ask a pilot "what do you do if your ADI fails" and they'll give you a straight answer. However, put them in a 747-200, 1000ft above the ground at take-off power in cloudy conditions and fail the PF's ADI, without any warnings, and you've seen what happens.
A good example of a similar situation was the British Midland 734 that crash a few metres from EMA, on the M1. The crew shut down the wrong engine! How rediculous! Yet it still happened. It's all very well to say "determin which engine hsa the problem and shut it down", but at 33000ft both crew are under a lot of stress. Mistakes, even major ones, are easy to make.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7808 posts, RR: 54 Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2450 times:
The Air-India 747 that crashed near Mumbai a few minutes into New Year's Day 1978 was caused by disorientation, not a fault with the ADI. The captain was diabetic, had been drinking, and the entire flight profile was off. While in a turn, the captain got disorientated and mismanaged the controls. They rolled over and hit the water inverted. All the ADIs matched, and the comparator did not sound an alarm. Btw there are THREE independent ADIs onboard, one each for the main panels and one backup instrument on the centre panel. The reason a lot of attention was paid to the ADI theory is cos that is what the Captain thought had failed. He shouted something out to that effect, and the co-pilot, who hadn't been monitoring the instruments, looked down and saw his was showing an unusual attitude as well (which the captain had flown them into), and incorrectly drew the conclusion that his had failed too. The flight engineer could see what was going on the whole time and pointed at the centre panel, with the backup instrument. "No captain, look at this one." Too late.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz