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New AA Route: SNA-JFK  
User currently offlineFlyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4315 times:

American Launching Only Orange County to New York JFK Nonstops

New Daily Service Starts April 6; Boeing 757 Service Features 'More Room Throughout Coach'

"FORT WORTH, Texas, Feb. 20 /PRNewswire/ -- On April 6, American Airlines begins offering the only nonstop service from Orange County, Calif., to New York's JFK Airport. Flights will operate three times a day Sunday through Friday and twice a day on Saturdays."

More at: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030220/dath040_1.html


Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

Didn't they try this before? AA is going to have quite a few non-stops from JFK to the LA area now -- LAX, LGB, and SNA. Is there really that much demand, or are they trying to siphon off some of B6's business? (And CO's, for that matter).

User currently offlineAM From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

Now that's a complicated takeoff. A 757 departure from a 5700ft runway with fuel for a 2450mi flight at an airport where high temperatures are normal. I bet full power and flaps 20 are gonna be required for all JFK flights.


"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1687 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

"Now that's a complicated takeoff. A 757 departure from a 5700ft runway with fuel for a 2450mi flight at an airport where high temperatures are normal. I bet full power and flaps 20 are gonna be required for all JFK flights."

I'm not sure if they still do, but I know Continental used to operate 757 service from Newark to Orange County. That's about the same distance. Perhaps they'll do as US Airways used to when they operated 737s from PIT-SNA and load restrict them.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

CO started out with a single daily nonstop 757 between EWR and SNA about 6-7 years ago, now they fly 2-3 daily nonstop 737-700 flights between EWR and SNA.

Other carriers that have flown (nonstop) from JFK-SNA in the past (all with 757s), HP, TWA and AA.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

I doubt American really needs up to three daily nonstop flights from JFK to SNA. This is likely to get cut down to one, and then eventually dropped. AA is edging closer to Chapter 11 and you wonder why? Yes, Continental has three daily nonstops to SNA (all 737-700's) but CO has a HUB in Newark and can fill those planes more effectively and efficiently than American, which does not have a hub at JFK. TWA had one daily nonstop in this market until American took them over. It did well. I just don't understand it.

I won't hold my breath for this route to survive past the summer. Three 757's a day? No way. Three 737-800's, maybe.

I don't think that American or HP for that matter ever flew JFK-SNA nonstop.

ContinentalEWR


User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Keep in mind the 757 is way-over powered. It shouldn't have too much trouble getting off. I was in a 757 from HUX-DFW the runway was about 6,000 feet I think, we got off with no problem.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineONT 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 591 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

ContinentalEWR,
You would be surprised what routes HP has operated from SNA. Besides New York, we have had scheduled service to SEA, RNO, and the recently cut SMF flights.

Well at least they didn't schedule another 6:45 departure. Due to NIMBYs no plane is allowed to take off before 7AM, however they can push back before that time. So that is why there are 9 flights scheduled to push back at 6:45AM. So basically its just one big race to get your plane out first because if you are the last of the nine to push back you'll probably be blocked at the gate and a long line to wait to take off. And on top of that once a plane pushes back there will always be RON a/c that is being towed into it. Things get so crowded they'll use 19L as a taxiway. (you also don't want to see what the security lines can look like)



"The world is run by C students"-Harry Truman
User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1743 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4027 times:

There are no current nonstops on JFK-SNA, though 3 flights may be to much, I am sure there will be demand for the route. Most major cities on the west coast are served from JFK by AA, this is just another choice for these customers.


727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineRolex01 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

Keep in mind SNA has FEDEX A310's and the occasional A300 to MEM. I know that there is more flexibility with a freighter, but, the 757 can handle that runway easily.

User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3994 times:

Can and does handle it easily.

It's the most incredible 757 take off roll from any US airport I know of. It's also a noise abatement airport too.. which makes it extra thrilling. I've made the DFW-SNA SNA-DFW R/T monthly.. it's awesome.

I do agree however.. I suspect there will be some load restrictions. Fully loaded with PAX and fuel for transcon on a 5700ft runway in the middle of summer..think about it.


User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 3965 times:

ont737, do you work for america west? i was surprised that america west did not return to the sna-rno market after aa dropped it after the reno air purchase. i have always heard it is a heavily traveled market. ua claims to have a huge chunk of those pax as they connect through sfo to rno, and sw probably as well. i was disappointed that hp also cut smf, but those slots now are used for the added rj frequencies to phx, and the additional las flight.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 3949 times:

HP had a "kind of" hub in SNA, they had two daily 757-200 nonstops from JFK-SNA. Late Eighties-early Ninties.

AA flew briefly around '95-'97 JFK-SNA, it lasted a few months.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineONT 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 591 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

Yeah I'm with HP. Everyone was sad to see the SMF flights go away. It seemed like the final step in our gradual downsizing. Now we are just a spoke city like everyone else. We used to have 27 or so flights a day in our prime, but now we are down to 19 just to LAS and PHX. (4 of them RJs) The SMF flight did very well for us, but to compete with 5 WN dailies, their connections beyond SMF, and their costs would have been a loosing battle I think. You can tell that we used to be big in SNA by how much ticket counter space we have. We have 2x as much as WN and UA. Only AA rivals us in that department. Another thing. The CRJs do not take up a normal jet slot at SNA. When I asked my Sup why we didn't get the CR7s he said its "because they would have to be parked at a gate (with a jetbridge) and would take up one of our jet slots". Our CRJs go out of gate 1A off to the side of terminal B.


"The world is run by C students"-Harry Truman
User currently offlineKevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

I am a F/A with AA. I LOVE to watch PAX faces on a SNA takeoff. No one ever listens to the CPT's PA about the unusual T/O and then they all look at us with terror-filled eyes when the engines power back from full-throttle to near-idle a couple thousand feet off the ground. And then the nose falls and it feels like your on a rollercoaster. Whoooo!!! FUN!!!


"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3898 times:

I think AA could do very well on SNA-JFK. SNA is an astronomically high-yielding market. However, I'm not sure 3x daily flights, at least at first, is the best course of action.

Aaron G.


User currently offlinePshifrin From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Just for the record, AA used to have JFK-SNA non-stop, i flew that route to visit my friend in 1995, and of course it was a 757.

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Starting the route with 3 flights per day may look a little high, but don't forget we're dealing with slots. AA did not like JB holding slots at LGB. If AA found 3 slots at SNA I would think they would need to use them or lose them. Especially since SNA has had a waiting list for years.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1687 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3797 times:

"I am a F/A with AA. I LOVE to watch PAX faces on a SNA takeoff. No one ever listens to the CPT's PA about the unusual T/O and then they all look at us with terror-filled eyes when the engines power back from full-throttle to near-idle a couple thousand feet off the ground. And then the nose falls and it feels like your on a rollercoaster. Whoooo!!! FUN!!!"

It is fun. And a heavily-loaded 757 is the best aircraft to experience "The Orange County Takeoff" on. However, it's not much fun when you don't expect it. It's a given it will happen at SNA. For some reason, US Airways did this style of takeoff on a flight I took recently from PIT to BDL on a 757. It was snowing heavily in Pittsburgh. After deicing, we pulled onto the runway, and the pilot spooled up the engines while keeping the wheel brakes engaged. He finally released the brakes and we rocketed down the runway, took off using very little runway and climbed very steeply. Shortly the throttles were brought back sharply giving the "roller coaster" effect. I enjoy that effect on a nice sunny day over Newport Beach. On a snowy night in the middle of the clouds above Pittsburgh with no advance warning, it's disconcerting.


User currently offlineBesttravel From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

Please remember that AA has MRTC and carries a few less passengers --which translates into a couple less pounds -- than a standard 757 configuration. Also, the 757 was built for STOL, which makes it ideal for SNA operations.
Here in Chicago, I am amazed every time I see an ATA 757-300 -- jammed to the gills with passengers and baggage for vacation in Florida -- jump off the short runway at MDW and climb to 6,000ft in no time. Even with the noise abatement, AA should not have too many issues with operating that 757 out of SNA to JFK. I wouldn't expect full capacity on any of those flights anyways.
Best Regards,

Matt
Best Travel


User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3715 times:

ont737, what is hp doing then in sna to fill in from the lost smf flights? if the rj doesn't count as a jet slot, is hp leasing their slots to somebody else? i flew into sna on hp last christmas just to try the sna takeoff, prc-phx-las-sna. bur is my home airport, but i thought i would give sna a try, i wish bur would do what sna did and build a new terminal, but the ninnys up in bur don't want the added traffic.

User currently offlineONT 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 591 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

Flyboy7974 ,
I think we are just loosing the slots, but don't take my word on it. My guess is that they are going to Southwest. Southwest is grabbing every slot they can get their hands on right now. The word is that they are going to add more flights to SMF, LAS and PHX this summer.



"The world is run by C students"-Harry Truman
User currently offlineONT 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 591 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3633 times:

I was talking to some AA 757 pilots today at the airport and they were pretty confident that a 757 could make the SNA-JFK without weight restrictions even in the summer. They just couldn't say enough about the type of a/c. One FO told me that Crandall once said that if he could trade every F100 and MD-80 for 757s he would and AA would be unstoppable.


"The world is run by C students"-Harry Truman
User currently offlineHaveric From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1247 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

US also operates a 757 to PIT, and shortly will begin one daily 757 service to PHL

User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 3560 times:

I want to issue a rare compliment to American for properly scheduling the arrival of Flight 271 (Daily/Dep JFK 1710 Arr SNA 2020).

A reoccurring problem with AA 1025 (ORD-SNA sked 2129 arrival) is diversion to LAX due to Oarnge County's curfew (2200/11:00PM local).

AA 1025 running +/- half hour late, it generally gets diverted to LAX, passengers bussed to SNA, resulting in equipment ferry LAX-SNA in time for morning departure. For some reason, I am under the impression this costs AA big MMoney.  Big grin

One FO told me that Crandall once said that if he could trade every F100 and MD-80 for 757s he would and AA would be unstoppable.

Wow, pretty bold statement.

Every 757 driver I have talked with swear by it...

JR FlyingTexan


25 FlyingTexan : A reoccurring problem with AA 1025 (ORD-SNA sked 2129 arrival) is diversion to LAX due to Oarnge County's curfew (2200/11:00PM local). Sorry about the
26 CX747 : The 757 is an outstanding aircraft with great performance and bottom line operating costs. Unfortunately, it does not have a "family" of aircraft like
27 Ladevale : Continental EWR states - "I doubt American really needs up to three daily nonstop flights from JFK to SNA. This is likely to get cut down to one, and
28 STT757 : "Since you brought it up, I might ask you as well how close is Continental to bankruptcy now that they hocked their spare parts and ground equipment?
29 ContinentalEWR : Haveric, US will indeed have one nonstop to PHL from SNA, but not on a 757. It will be operated with an Airbus A319-100. ContinentalEWR
30 ONT 737 : If AA can try to make 2 daily 757s from LGB to JFK work, why not 3 757s from SNA? It is not that much of a stretch....
31 STT757 : What about AA"s JFK-OAK flights , they started out with 3 daily 757s (IIRC). How many are there now, 0 ?
32 Klwright69 : I don't think AA is wise to start such long haul mainline domestic service at this time. No other big 6 airline is doing that as far as I know. For ex
33 Laxflyer : I think you better check your facts before posting such a stupid comment. All airlines in one shape or another have resorted to barrowing, selling, an
34 Ba319-131 : I think we shall have to wait and see how long this route stays at 3 a day. My opinion,a couple of months or capacity reduced to a 738 to maintail 3 d
35 ContinentalEWR : No doubt, SNA, and for that matter, JFK, are high yielding markets with a lot of business travel potential. NYC, for obvious reasons, and Orange Count
36 STT757 : There is too much capacity in the US domestic Market and AA launches a route like this? If it was so profitable why did it take them up to now to real
37 Klwright69 : Yes, I was first surprised to read that AA was starting this route. I thought they took this route over when they acquired TW. I didn't know they had
38 STT757 : The AA EWR-CDG flight was a rumor, I don't think there's anything to that.
39 ONT 737 : Speaking of 757s and and SNA. I heard today that we (HP) are going to get them again pretty soon. Its been a while since we have seen them around.
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