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Air Force Bases At Civil Airports  
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4887 posts, RR: 19
Posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3374 times:

I have some questions regarding civil airports with a military base, FRA being probably the biggest example.

Do the Air Forces have to pay the same landing fees as airlines? Do they get special prices, or can they even use the airport infrastructure for free ? (Especially interesting when the Air Force is foreign in the country, like the USAF at FRA)

How is it with slot-restricted airports? Have military flights priority ? Do they have to look for a free slot ?

Are the military planes handled by the same ground controllers as the civil aircraft?

Are they allowed to haul all possible cargo there? Flying around with tons of high-explosive weapon at an airport with over 200.000 people seems to be quite dangerous...

Thanks for your answers

5 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1190 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3323 times:

Just my own guess here, I'd imagine that there's probably an agreement with the United States and Germany regarding use of Frankfurt that would cover all these details like landing fees, scheduling.

Depends on the airport but probably the same controllers will control military aircraft. It doesn't make sense to have two sets of controllers working at the same airport controlling only civilian and only military.

As far as explosives go, most of the ordnance like stuff in GP bombs is a very stable and is actually hard to detonate. C4 explosives for example, you get set it on fire it will not detonate, however if it's on fire and you stomp on it to try to put it out, it will go boom  Sad if it's not on fire you can use a ball of C4 as a baseball to play baseball with it. it won't detonate, but if it is on fire when you use it as a baseball, there won't be much left of the bat or the batter, or homeplate.

But even then each type of explosive has an ESQD explosive safety quantity distance, which delineates the closest anything or anyone not involved with the evolution can be when handling ordnance. Like for a simple G881 fragmentation hand grenade if I walk down the street with one, it has an explosive weight of say 8 ounces. I have to clear a distance of 1250ft arround me in all directions along the route of travel. in order to transport that grenade according to the regs, of course that's very simplified, I have to make sure its packaged properly, palletized and banded according to the unitizing documents. Have a emergency response team capable of responding within a certain time limit, etc.

Ammunition weighs a lot and I don't expect a lot of it travels by air when we're getting it from on theater to another theather, a surface method is used, it's more efficient. However once it's in a theater of operation, then we use whatever method is necessary to get the ammunition to where it is going including tactical airlift, although principally it will be surface means ususally as well.

Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineSoupthansa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3298 times:

Charleston AFB SC/Charleston IAP: The Air Force owns the property and maintains the runways. The FAA provides the controllers (No USAF controllers at Charleston).

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 17596 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

Only small arms travels by air no real threat, the thousands of pounds of jet fuel in the wings is the biggest threat in a crash. A fully loaded C-17 is no more dangerous than a LH A-340, they will both explode into flames if they crash.

The US has been operating Military aircraft into and out of dozens of airbases across Germany for 60 years. There have been no issues with these flights.

High explosives like bombs, missles etc are carried by Military Sealift Command ships. Close to my home is Naval Weapons Station Earle NJ, it's homeport for fast combat support ships which support Naval operations throughout the World.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

How is it with slot-restricted airports? Have military flights priority ? Do they have to look for a free slot ?

At AMS (thus not even an airport with an airbase) all flights of military aircraft or flying for an Air Force don't count in the calculation of the number of slots and are allowed to land if they want. Priority is only given when the situation makes it necessary to grant priority.

BTW isn't one of FRA's runways part of the airbase and may civil airlines use the runways when the USAF doesn't need them?

User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6210 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

A number of airports in the U.S. share facilities between civilian and military. For example, Wichita Falls Municipal shares a runway with Sheppard AFB (SPS). Military aircraft have priority over civilian aircraft. There is a hierarchy, which I'm not completely familiar with, but possibly an Air Traffic Controller could share it with us.

Generally, it's first come, first served. But in the event priority is needed, I think it goes something like this:

First priority - Air Force One (of course) or aircraft under distress
Second priority - Highly sensitive military operations
Third priority - regular military operations
Fourth priority - IFR Part 121 Air Carriers
Fifth priority - Other IFR Operators
Sixth priority - VFR Aircraft

[Edited 2003-02-23 00:35:28]

[Edited 2003-02-23 00:36:11]

[Edited 2003-02-23 00:37:09]

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