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UA And The 747-400  
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Posted (11 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

Exactly what routes does United currenlty operate their 747-400s on? It seems to me that the overall consensus is to retire the 747 fleet. I believe that 20-20 of the youngest airframes will fit the bill quite nicely. What do you all think?


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

I went and did a little hunting. If United kept 20 747-400s out of their current fleet and sold the rest, they would have quite a young fleet. The 20 youngest aircraft in the 747-400 fleet were delivered between 1997 and 2000. The majority of deliveries came in 98 and 99.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineKaiTakFan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1588 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6503 times:

the major routes for United and the 747-400 is of course the Pacific.

LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-LAX
SFO-SYD-SFO
SFO-NRT-SFO
SFO-HKG-SFO
LAX-NRT-LAX
NRT-SIN-NRT
NRT-HKG-NRT
NRT-ICN-NRT
ORD-HKG-ORD
ORD-NRT-ORD
HKG-SIN-HKG
NRT-HNL-NRT

There is often times routes such as ORD-DEN, ORD-LAX and out to SFO done with the 747-400. Plus LHR and FRA will see the 747-400 sometimes on occasion.


User currently offlineUS Air/TWA Fan From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6427 times:

Unless United pulls out of Austrailia and/or significantly downsizes its Asian route network, the B747-400 is going to stay with United. However, I do agree that the numbers will be reduced to maybe 20-30 a/c.

I can't imagine the 777 going SFO-SYD...but it may actually have the range to do so.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6353 times:


http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030226/airlines_thailand_thai_1.html

BANGKOK, Feb 26 (Reuters) - Thai Airways International Plc said on Wednesday its board had approved in principle a plan to buy seven Boeing 747-400 aircraft from embattled U.S. carrier United Airlines (NYSE:UAL - News).

Chairman Thanong Bidaya told reporters the deal would be about 30 billion baht ($702.2 million) cheaper than buying new planes.

"The board's view is that the purchase is good for Thai Airways as it will help us save a lot," Thanong said.

A company official told Reuters the seven planes would cost about $330 million.

United, a unit of Elk Grove Village, Illinois-based UAL Corp (NYSE:UAL - News), filed the largest bankruptcy in aviation history late last year.

The purchase from United Airlines, which still needs Thai cabinet approval, will be part of a Thai Airways plan to buy 12 planes over the next five years.

Thai Airways is 93 percent owned by the Thai government.

Thanong said the airline expected to receive three or four planes from United Airlines this year.

Thai Airways, which currently has 81 aircarft, has already bought two new Boeing 747-400 planes under its five-year plan. The two planes are scheduled for delivery in October.

Thai Airways shares closed down 1.7 percent at 29.50 baht, while the overall Thai stock market was down 0.2 percent.




The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineAriegel From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6307 times:

Add SFO-PVG-SFO to that list of routes (although I wouldn't mind seeing the 777 there some day!)

User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6239 times:

We see UA 747s at FRA quite regularly in the last time, they're doing military charters for the USAF.

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6210 times:

So, 7 airframes to Thai. Do we know which ones have been sold?


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6211 times:

This is going to hit Boeing 747 sales hard, $50 mln a piece,
5yr old 747-400's on the market.



User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

How do we know that they are five years old? United has 747-400s of various ages. It seems that their fleet was delivered in the early 90s and then anothe order was filled in the late 90s.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6183 times:

The seven Boeing 747-400 planes, with 347 seats each, have been in operation for less than five years.

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030226/0739000403_1.html


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6152 times:

I'm pretty sure these are the only domestic routes left for the UA 747:

DEN-LAX
DEN-SFO
LAX-DEN
SFO-DEN
DEN-ORD
ORD-DEN


Just a few years back UA 747 domestic routes also included:

DEN-IAD
IAD-DEN
ORD-EWR
EWR-ORD

Anybody remember UA Flight 001? It was a 742 ORD-HNL Daily. Times have changed.

DIA



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineRipcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

I took the 747-200 ORD-HNL-ORD about 6 years back very nice. Also UA had 7 /747 parked at ORD yesterday unk reg#'s but i bet those are going to THAI

User currently offlineCaetravlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 909 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6070 times:

The worst part of the sale of the 747s to Thai is that they are selling some of their youngest airframes. While that is what I would want if I were buying them second hand, I hate to see the newest ones being sold first. I guess even the oldest 744s are well short of retirement age though. I could see UAL wanting to replace them at retirment time with the 772LR or even the 773ER. That will be interesting to see. But either way, it is plain to see that the reduction of the 744 fleet has begun.


A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6061 times:

I thought ORD-HNL was operated with a DC-10-30 , flight 43/44.?
Also,the timetable shows ORD-LAX-ORD is still a 744.Was this month when I was @ ORD.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6049 times:

All I know is back in the 70's and 80's, UA had a 742 ORD-HNL designated as United's prestigious Flight #1. (I've got a video of it on an old show called Diamonds In the Sky)

I don't think UA has ORD-HNL anymore. UA moved those operations to DEN for DEN-HNL not too long ago. Operated by 763/777 A/C.

DIA



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6030 times:

Slightly off topic here, but I heard that UAL is ready to return about a dozen 767s & 777s to Boeing because of Chapter 11. Did anyone hear anything to this affect? Back on topic, UAL should sell half of its 747 fleet, keeping about 20-22 for their needs. Bad times for every airline in the business. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6007 times:

I love UA 747s. I hate to see any go.

User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5958 times:

ORD-HNL was suspended Feb 14th 01 when the DC-10 was retired.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineKaiTakFan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1588 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5938 times:

So when did UA change UA1 from ORD-HNL to LAX-HKG-DEL-LHR-IAD/JFK-LAX? I often times flew on UA 1 on the LAX-HKG flight. I wish that they had not pulled that flight! Speaking of UA 747-400s, it sure is sad to see LAX drop down to just 1 747-400 international flight to SYD. This after LAX-NRT UA897/890 turns to a 777. I miss the days of seeing gate 77, 76,74 and 68B packed with 747-400s going to Asia. and then later that night seeing the the gates full again with 747s to AKL,MEL, and SYD. Ahhh the glory days!

User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5889 times:

I was just at LAX a few weeks ago (Flying UA 767 and 747 RT from DEN). I was amazed at how fewer 747s there were compare to a similar trip I took in 1997. Those 777s are changing things up a bit.

DIA



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5797 times:

so what is the actual number of 744's needed to fly their current schedule versus how many they actually own. It would seem to be that the 744 utilization is currently rather low.



User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1177 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5727 times:
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I assume the 747's being sold all have financing liens on them and so the bank/company that financed them gets the cash. They must have been putting some serious pressure on UAL and this is the strategy, I wonder if UAL will actually get to use even a percentage of the sale price. 300million dollars for 1bn worth of airplanes. Not bad Thai-!


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineDinker225 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1063 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

How many 744 frames does UA currently have before all these sales and returns? I can see them holding on to enough to fill the current Pacific routes but nothing more.

Dinker



Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

I think overall, selling the most recently delivered examples was a smart move by United. This aircraft are more than likely still being paid for while the older 747-400s are cash cows. By selling the newer models, United decreases it's 747-400 fleet operating costs and makes some money.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
25 N777UA : Newer planes = less depreciation = more value = more $ when sold.
26 STT757 : Some of UAL's 747-400s are already parked in the desert, I think the benefit of reducing fleet types has to be weighed when thinking about the 747-400
27 CX747 : This is definately a very interseting debate. I've never been one for "reducing fleet types" as an answer. You pick the right tool for the right job.
28 UA744Flagship : UA's 777s are the pride of the company and are generally very well financed, thanks to the sweetheart deal for being the launch (and biggest) customer
29 CX747 : While it may be a sweatheart deal, is it cheaper than payments on the 747-400s? I would have to think that after being in service for over a decade, t
30 STT757 : The things to keep in mind about the 747-400s are, 4 engines means more parts and more maintenance time required which equals more money. The 747 requ
31 ConcordeBoy : The 777 can pretty much fly any route the 747-400s can, and the 777's cargo capacity is identical to the 747s. Neither of these are accurate as far as
32 CX747 : Do we have the labor cost difference between a 747-400 and a 777-200ER? Now we enter the whole quad vs. twin category! Yes, UA's 747 captains are the
33 Ual777contrail : cx747, on mar 15th the contracts are out the door, labor cost wont be an issue. now we'll move on to AA's problems.
34 Na : To all you experts: I would believe Boeing, they say that the 744 is more economical than a 777 when operated full. So on trunk routes the 744 is stil
35 QANTAS747-438 : So wait... if LAX-NRT is going to a 777, then the only 744 at LAX we'll see will be for the SYD route?! Just ONE 744?!?!?
36 CX747 : Are you stating that on March 15th the airline is going to file Chp. 7? Or are you stating that on March 15th, all of the contracts get rewritten?
37 Ual777contrail : That's when the contracts get rewritten, that's why the flight attendants are scrambling to get a plan in place. ual 777 contrail
38 Ual777contrail : That's when the contracts get rewritten, that's why the flight attendants are scrambling to get a plan in place. There is no way the pilots will have
39 Enginesrus : Concordeboy, In certain ways aircraft manufacturers sell takeoff weight more than they sell airplanes per se. The capabilities of the 777-200ER are mo
40 747-451 : In 1981 UA flew 747-100's JFK-LAX. UA will also "position" 747-400's between LAX and SFO for maintenance etc and will actually put pax on them...
41 Taffer : Only thing I have heard that a 747 can do that a 777 can not; fly over water not peppered with islands longer. In case there is an emergency, a 2 engi
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