United777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5281 times:
Why does it seem like Northwest Airlines has the oldest fleet out of all the other major US airlines such as UA, AA, CO and DL? In the mid to late 90's it seemed like all the major US airlines were re-newing the fleet and retiring the old aircraft. UA, AA, CO and DL all ordered the 777-200/-200ER and new 737NG, 767s and 757s.
I know NWA has a lot of Airbus and Boeing airplanes on order from the 757-300 and Airbus A320 family and the A330-300. It still seems like it going to be so many years until NWA fleet looks as new as the other major airlines. Is it because NWA has a bigger fleet?
When does NWA plan to retire all of it's DC-10's and 747-classics?
Dragogoalie From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 1220 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5141 times:
I used to be critical of NWA's old fleet, but one must also point out that they do have an amazing saftey record. If its still working, why get rid of it? I've been flying NWA a lot in recent years, and the closest thing to an emergency that I've had was when we landed in MSP in a DC-9, and upon arrival at the gate, they couldent get the cockpit door open to let the pilots out
Nwa747-400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5131 times:
Northwest is one of the most conservative airlines when it comes to fleet renewal. They are very good at flying aircraft up until the end of their economic lives. For example, the DC10-40s and 727-200s have now been retired because they no longer made economic sense for the airline to operate.
Northwest is not interested in boasting "the youngest fleet" as some airlines are. What is important to Nortwest is to operate a safe, reliable airline with a conservative cost structure.
Plus, an NW DC9 is in much better shape than many of 737s flying around the country.
B727 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 521 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5052 times:
I think that it is great that NWA is using their aircraft to its fullest. Also when they do replace the fleet, they will then have the newest fleet in the (US) industry. Way to go NWA I wish USAIR and UNITED could have followed the example of NWA.
IndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4849 times:
The A330-200/300 will replace the DC-10 on International segments beginning this fall and concluding in late 2004/early 2005 (but deliveries of the 24 A330 will continue via 2006). Presently, the plan is to keep about a dozen DC-10 aircraft in the fleet for many years serving Hawaii and other high-density domestic routes. But there’s speculation “from the inside” that B753 will be replace the DC-10 to Hawaii (and perhaps an A332 from MSP-HNL) and thus the DC-10 will be flushed from NW’s fleet within a few years.
No replacement fleet types have been selected for the DC-9 or B742. However, NW is exploring its options for the DC-9 and deciding between the A346, B773 or B744 for the B742. Given that the A319 are replacing many short-distance DC-9 flights from DTW (e.g. DTW-LGA, EWR, DCA, etc.) and NW’s interest in increasing the number of fight banks at MEM, it’s quite possible that a combination of RJ and A319 will replace the DC-9. I’d put my money on the A346 to replace the B742 – given that NW’s price sensitive (the A346 could be acquired for significantly less than the B773); NW’s invested significant amounts of money in Airbus maintenance facilities; and the A346 is common with the A330.
Presently, the emphasis is being placed on replacing fleet types that will provide huge benefits – e.g. RJs are replacing Torture Props, A319/A320 the B727, B752/B753 the DC-10-40, A332/A333 the DC-10-30, etc. Even though it could be considered a buyer’s market right now, I expect NW to hold off purchasing new aircraft until the present situation (repressed economy, the possibility of UA’s liquidation, etc.)
Also, to address earlier comments, NW DID initiate a fleet renewal with the rest of the majors in the late 80s – A320 were to replace the B727, A342 the DC-10 and B744 the B742 (a decision would be made later on the DC-9 replacement – probably the A319 eventually). However, NW came close to bankruptcy and cancelled all of their orders. Since then, they’ve returned to financial salability but have invested their money in other projects (e.g. paying off loans, the pilots strike of 1998, being the primary financer of updated/new facilities at MSP and DTW, etc.) Yet NW did place fleet renewal orders during the mid-to-late 90s; the orders were spread out, however. NW will be the only major carrier accepting significant delivery of new planes over the next several years.
In the mean time, NW’s poured money into renovating their DC-9s, older A320 and B752, DC-10 and B742 aircraft – every plane is in respectable condition. Personally, I find it insulting when some teenage who’s only annual (or bi-annual?) plane trip comes on his families vacation to Disney World puts down NWA. Overall, it’s a highly respectable airline.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4753 times:
I'll say this: if UA does collapse expect NW to snap up a lot of the UA 747-400 fleet in a blink of an eye. That solves the 747-200 replacement market right there and NW can use it for expanded transpacific flights--and possibly some transatlantic flights, too.
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3949 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4723 times:
Ip - from Richard Andersons mouth... the 757 will not be ETOPS certified.
I also find it hard to believe NW will continue with the "we're keeping 12 DC10-30s around for HNL and high density domestic flying" plan. High fuel burn, 3 salaries upfront, over capasity in the market place, all post 9/11 probably will require this pre 9/11 plan to be re-evaluated.
NWA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1200 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4614 times:
I just wish NW would get some 777's. :-( I like flying on the older planes. they are proven, and they wont be around much longer. They seem safer to me. not the start a war, but I fell so much better on a 727 than a A320, but I fell darn safe on both of them anyways. none the less, NW is is fair $ situation because of the older fleet. Go NW!
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
NOTAM-J From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4564 times:
Why does it seem like Northwest Airlines has the oldest fleet out of all the other major US airlines...?
Because they do. Among U.S. majors, NW has the highest average aircraft age of over 20 years. However, it seems that they are currently having less financial trouble than some carriers with younger fleets.
HlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4541 times:
UA and AA might have got themselves a nice new fleet of aircraft, but gee they won't look so nice parked in the desert waiting for buyers when UA goes belly up and AA follows unless they turn themselves around.
Give NW a break, isn't it great to see a variety of aircraft still in the air? Where else can you see DC-9s and DC-10s these days still in pax configuration?
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3949 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4455 times:
Fuel economy isn't the only cost factor in the daily operations of an airline. The Dc9s are paid for -and cost only $1900/block hour to operate. NW was smart and hedged most of the 2003 fuel - so they aren't paying inflated prices. Put those points together with already lower operating costs because of diligent cost cutting pre and opst 9/11 and it makes PURE sense to be still operating the Dc9s. They're one of if not the most reliable fleet type in the fleet and all have very new interiors.
GARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1518 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4330 times:
A point that doesnt seem to come up with NW to get some of the
UA B744's, is that a couple of the aircraft were actually built for NWA
but they deferred them so Boeing sold them to UA. NW would be getting
back some of its original equipment.
As has been mentioned many times, NW spent a lot of money on the
DC9 fleet to update them. When those aircraft went into the shops,
the airframes were basically zeroed out, so they have a long life
left in them. I would say that NWA is probably in the best financial
shape of any of the majors...and wont lose $$$$Millions more trying
to set up a LLC like Song or "Project Starfish"
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4296 times:
If the 717's only 20-30 percent more fuel than the DC-9, given the mammoth costs of buying new airplanes, NW would be foolish to give up it's DC-9's until Stage IV forces them to do so. Picture that the payments on a 717 would probably be hundreds of thousands of dollars per month -- probably a lot more than the cost in fuel for each DC-9 now.
I, for one, am glad to see at least one airline less interested in "ego" and more interested in "making money" since they have all sucked down my tax dollars since 9/11 in one form or another. I'd like to think that money went to keeping people employed, not boosting anyone's ego for having a "new fleet."
Penguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4175 times:
I flew on a NW DC-9 today and I was amazed how good looking the plane is. If not for the leg room I would become a loyal NW customer. The staff was much more helpful than my dealings with STL AA/TWA staff. Everyone was cheery for 6am and the DC-9 had the new 717 interior. Everything was clean white with royal blue cloth seats. Only question..are those seats in the DC-9 those slim line seats. They seemed to be not as cushioned. I was on a DC-9 30 with 80 available seats in the main cabin and 16 first class.