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Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes  
User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5623 times:

Danish travel news magazine TakeOff reports Richard Branson has confirmed that Virgin Atlantic was to buy two Corcordes from Air France. The deal however has not yet been completed. I have searched this forum but not been able to find any further info regarding this. Anyone with more knowledge regarding these purchase plans?

I can imagine a stunning seating and comfort configuration of a Virgin Concorde  Wow!

http://www.takeoff.nu

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

Oh whatever  Insane

Branson has been after AF Concordes for years (if not decades now)... and with only 5 left in the fleet, I hardly think they're going to "give" one to him.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5554 times:

Branson hype, this idea never got far, as Concordeboy says, no spare aircraft now
.
Just last week Branson said if BA stop running the aircraft, he'd want some, BA replied that the fleet have all been allocated to museums, (they probably were years ago), they added that letting him have them would be like 'running a formula 1 car in a backstreet garage'.
Not as mean minded as it sounds, VS would have to take on Concorde flight crew, engineers and a heap of spares and support, very expensive stuff.

However, if BA were to dump the aircraft before AF, unlikely as that is, if Branson were to get some, he'd need staff, I and most of my colleagues would go, I may not like Branson much, but many of us in BA are fed up with all the bullshitters we have to deal with.

We used to be loyal to both BA and the aircraft, now it's just the aircraft, this is for a whole range of issues, mostly not directly Concorde related, we don't have a problem with BA's CEO, just the vast army of self-justifying and useless management between him and us.
We'd have decent facilities too!

But this is all very unlikely, whenever BA makes the news for negative reasons, Branson has to have his say, even when it's a probable non-story like this.


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5471 times:

I hardly think they're going to "give" one to him

Don't see why not. They were practically given to Air France.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5442 times:

All for the publicity, Branson know that AF/BA won´t sell to another airline so
he get free publicity. Clever....


User currently offlineShamrock_747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

I wouldn't be suprised if Branson does manage to start flying Concorde under the Virgin banner after BA withdraw the aircraft, whenever that may be.

He has more than enough money to buy the whole operation, give the BA staff enough money to stay on and give the museums large amounts of cash to compensate for not recieving Concorde after BA withdrawl.

However, he may not want to take such a huge financial risk.

Shamrock_747


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5307 times:

The problem with that is the fleet would be near to needing very extensive scheduled Major checks, then a re-life programme to take them beyond 2009, no way will he finance that.

User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3238 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5006 times:

Honestly, it is highly unlikely that any airline - VS or otherwise - would purchase Concordes off either BA or AF. Notwithstanding the issues of pride involved where the 2 flag-carriers are concerned, there remains of course the issue of taking over practically an entire operation. Unlike, say, buying 777s or A320s from either airline - where manufacturer support, crew training etc. are readily available - to fly Concorde would require extensive crew training, purchasing of spares' stocks, maintenance equipment and all that - not a cheap venture by any means. To entice crew from either airline to go across too would also be costly - they could demand (and get) any sort of salary they wanted because their skills are at a premium.

Altogether in these difficult times that is a fatal idea for VS.

TrintoCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

That was old news, he tried to get an AF Concorde at least 5 years ago if not longer, although he has said recently that he is still interested.

Also Fed-Ex have tried to get hold of them in the past too to operate express freight services - like the Russians did with the Tu-144.

I hear that he has a model of a Concorde in VS colours on his desk in the Holland Park Office, though not sure if that is just an Urban Legend.

( Just for interest, one of the VS engineers retired a few weeks ago. He had said that his favorite a/c to work on was the 777, so as a leaving present they had a picture painted of a 777 in the VS colour scheme for him. )

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineAAMD11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

I dont think any other airlines should be allowed to op. the a/c once BA and AF pack it in for good.
They should go to museums, not to another airline.
Branson would love to do it, all the prestige in operating Condorde.
I dont think they should allow it.
BA and AF are the only Concorde operators in the world, thats symbolic of the aircraft; dont let someone else get their fingers in the pie!

A^A MD-11


User currently offlineAussiestu From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 780 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

I truelly do not believe that either AF or BA would allow Richard Branson to operate Concord. He has tried this before and it failed and this is probably just another news headline that he is heading for. I definitely think that BA would spend its last penny to ensure that he did not get his hands on any Concord. Long may she rule the skies but not in a VS colour scheme!

User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

Have to agree with Leezyjet on this one very old news indeed on the AF Concorde story.

VS looked very closely at the 777 a year or so ago  Wink/being sarcastic

Paul


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4800 times:

Hello,

There was actually an RFP sent by Virgin to Air France in October 1994. But it was not serious... If Virgin could have operated a Concorde on LHR-JFK for a week he would have done it, but he never intended to 'operate' the airplane. Trust me, that's reliable info.


Best regards,
Alain Mengus
Air Transport Business [ATB]


User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1325 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

Is there any validity to the story that BA were going to ditch Concorde in 2004? I've heard so many rumours, I don't know what is true, half true or false.....

User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4594 times:

G-CIVP, here is a recent thread on this subject;
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1033166/

Loads are up and down at the moment, on Wednesday 6th March, both flights were dismal, the BA001 (G-BOAG) had 26 pax, of which 16 were full fare, the BA002 just 20, 14 were full fare.
But the next day Thursday 6th March, the BA001 (OAG again) had 95 pax, 73 were full fare, including UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw off to the UN (he's used Concorde quite a bit for this recently).
The BA002 had 64 pax, 61 were full fare, delayed due the weather at JFK, which has cancelled quite a few flights tonight.
So today's BA001/002 made very good profits, and more than made up for the previous day, which was unusually bad, even allowing for this being a lean time of year historically on the aircraft.


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4407 times:

The idea of Virgin Atlantic Concordes now does not seem so strange because in the first place Virgin would not buy the Concordes but only lease them, which means lesser financial exposure, and in view of BA willing to retire them earlier than expected, less competition as at some point Virgin may be the only operator from the UK, and if Air France retires them earlier as well then Virgin would be the only operator of the Concorde, which would not be bad at all.
Also, when you think about it, if BA and AF decide to retire the Concordes earlier than expected but still within the life of the aircraft, then by leasing them they would be getting money rather than just giving them away to museums where the Concordes will eventually end up anyway.
And on the fun side, remember how Virgin Atlantic started in the first place - Sir Richard leased one B747 for one year and things worked well so they continued the lease, so why would not that happen with the Concorde - lease one for one year, if things work well or at least not very bad then they could extend the lease. And for the user who said that the Concorde has been exclusively BA or AF - that is not true. Singapore Airlines for one thing has leased the Concorde, and at least one American carrier, I believe did the same - Braniff, although I could be wrong about Braniff.
By the way how is non-revving on the Concorde? Last time I checked ID90s were sold for $660 one way JFK-LHR, and I am still considering it.

Regards,

VS11


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

SIA did not lease a Concorde, G-BOAD was operated by BA, 3 of the FA's were SIA, one side of the A/C was painted in SIA livery, that's about it.
Braniff also did not 'operate' Concorde, in both cases the aircraft were fully operational with the owners, that would not be the case with a VS Concorde, and believe me, just leasing a Concorde is not just like doing the same with a 747.
I'm not totally ruling it out, but it is most unlikely, it sounds a lot like Branson just mouthing off to the press as usual.
As for ID90's, they are happening, the price you quote sounds about right.



User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Bring Concorde back into production!!!  Big thumbs up


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineVc10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4154 times:

GDB,
When Concorde was operated to Singapore, the Flight deck crew were always from BA, but the cabin crew alternated between sectors, so one sector BA cabin crew, the next sector Singapore airlines cabin crew.
Braniff did operate the Concorde between Washington and Dallas. The aircraft were nominally sold to them at Washington and sold back to BA or Air France on their return. Braniff used their own Flight Deck crews, and their own Cabin crews. As their route was all over land they only ever flew the aircraft subsonic and in fact they were not given any training for supersonic flight
regards little vc10


User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

Wow ? VS livery on Concorde ? That is a shocker .


If that news is true , I cant wait to see the aircraft .




Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineBA777 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2179 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

Would the VS Livery on the concorde be possible? I mean wouldnt the silvery colour absorb heat, like the space shuttles tiles being black, black paint absorbs heat right?

BA777


User currently offlineAAMD11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3949 times:

Braniff used their own Flight Deck crews, and their own Cabin crews

I didnt think anyone but AF and BA crews could fly Concorde.
Did they really have their own flight crews?!

Would the VS Livery on the concorde be possible?
For it to be operated as it is today, the best paint to use is white.
Reflects off most heat, if you were to paint it say, Blue (ala Air France CONC in PEPSI colours) you can only fly at M1.7 (not M2 as normal) to reduce effects of absorbed heat on the airframe.

As for VS flying them, i wouldnt let them lease one, let alone buy a fleet of them.
If BA and AF are to retire them soon (i hope not, havent flown one yet and i'd really like to) i think it's best that they get put to rest, they have operated them between them since it was launched, and it should end that way, the two flag carriers of the two nations that accomplished the creation of the world's finest passanger aircract!

A^A MD-11


User currently offlineCarduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1586 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Let's get it straight - Branson is more full of bull than anybody around including various rather senior polititans in US and UK!

He will NEVER be able to touch Concorde, let alone operate the graceful, noble, and only supersonic commercial passenger aircraft in the world!

Branson is, and always will be, full of hype and crap! VS suits him!

Concorde will ALWAYS be THE a/c of BA and AF!

Got it?

If you want to play hypothesis, and live in a dream world, it is up to you, but for the benefit of knwledgeable people around - please get REAL!



Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
User currently offlineThrawn From British Virgin Islands, joined Mar 2002, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

So what is wrong with Virgin leasing and flying concorde?
Virgin over the years have been a revolution in air travel, if it was'nt for there innovative approach to the airline industry where would it be today? it certainly woke BA and others up and about time to.

Lets get away from those of you who see concorde as purely BA/AF property, wouldn't you rather see concorde flying even if it was in Virgins colours, at least they might have the balls to turn into a profitable operation again.
Concorde is still a beautiful aircraft in the sky and deserves to be flying not stuck in a museum. its only the beancounters who want to retire her as she isnt making as much profit as she used.

As for Carduelis you most be a Nigel as you are so puffed up with your own BA importance you seem to think of Virgin as a naughty schoolboy who deserves a clip around the ear for daring to speak!!!!!! I think you are the one to get real and wake up to the real world. I challenge you Carduelis to come up with honest a viable account to why Virgin couldn't operate Concorde?

Yes Branson is full of hype at times but you have to give him some credit, Virgin is still around after years of BA trying to run it into the ground like it did Laker,BCal,Dan Air.

I do remember a concorde in Virgin colours once, the one at the entrance to LHR was turned into a Virgin scheme, at the launch of Virgin at LHR, BA were not amused. Funniest thing to happen there in years.






User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3845 times:

So what is wrong with Virgin leasing and flying concorde?

LEASING?

it certainly woke BA and others up and about time to.

It woke BA up in the sense that it was another trans-Atlantic carrier. It wasn't particularly revolutionary. The Branson-lustre has worn off now and it's just another airline.

at least they might have the balls to turn into a profitable operation again

BA Concordes cover most of their costs, if not all. Considering Branson would need to cover the HUGE initial investment of aquiring the Concordes and the maintence facilities (and staff), perform lots of expensive work on the fleet, train crews, somehow ween all the corporate contracts from BA, convince the public that while BA are saying the planes are too old to fly they're actually not and they're perfectly safe, they're already alocated to museums, Branson would have to coordinate with BA and AF regarding spares and so on and so on, I doubt it's actually going to happen.

Concorde is still a beautiful aircraft in the sky and deserves to be flying not stuck in a museum. its only the beancounters who want to retire her as she isnt making as much profit as she used.

If you think Branson started Virgin merely for the joy of flight, think again. He won't fly Concorde if he won't make money.

I challenge you Carduelis to come up with honest a viable account to why Virgin couldn't operate Concorde?

Because they're BA and AF aircraft...

Virgin is still around after years of BA trying to run it into the ground like it did Laker,BCal,Dan Air.

Yeah, as the "flag carrier" that only flies to the most profittable locations using O'Learly style marketing (4 engines 4 longhaul? Please.) only to a lesser degree of success.  Insane


25 AAMD11 : Well said 777236ER, especially the last part. Branson would have to buy the entire operation, including the hundreds of support staff (flight, cabin,
26 Thrawn : LEASING? Who said anything about having to buy them anyway plenty of airlines don't own there own aircraft/train crews/have maintence facilities etc.
27 Post contains images Donder10 : Now if VS or BM had the access to LHR that BA has then they might be able to expand there route structure and make a far better job of what our suppos
28 GDB : Thanks for the clarification vc-10, BA777, G-BOAD had SIA titles on the port side, just the titles, cheatline and tail livery, but otherwise all white
29 Post contains links GDB : A pic of G-BOAD with the SIA titles; http://www.concordesst.com/pictures/gboad6.jpg
30 AvObserver : GKirk says... "Bring Concorde back into production!!!" What a wonderful, lusting, romantic notion! It's sad it's so at odds with the bitter reality th
31 GDB : Yes, for a start the production equipment was broken up, as BA found to their cost when they wanted new rudders 10 years ago. But the 2707 would not h
32 ARGinMIA : What's the biggest cost of producing a new aircraft? Developing? What about a revamped Concorde? Like a ConcordeNG? I mean.. I'm sure they have the bl
33 AAMD11 : A concorde NG would be an entirely new aicracft. Because the tools use to make the original, arent in existance. A 737NG was easy, the fuselage was al
34 GDB : Concorde's engines, while very efficient at Mach 2, are the opposite in other phases of flight. They do not meet any kind of noise and emission rules,
35 Post contains links GDB : Here is the nearest we ever got to a 'ConcordeNG', from the mid 70's. Some useful improvements, still not good enough for today in environmental impac
36 Post contains images VS11 : If there is a will, there is a way. Virgin does not need to buy the Concorde or "the whole operation". Just as we lease Air Atlanta's Classic 747s tog
37 Shamrock_747 : BA do not just fly Concorde just for prestiege or to save embarassing the governments. When the plane was first introduced it didn't make money, but w
38 GDB : Nonsense, BA has run the Concorde most effectively, we took over the costs in the early 80's, we made it work, we developed the most profitable routes
39 GDB : That's right Shamrock_747, VS would have to take over some BA Concorde's pretty soon for any kind of worthwhile service before re-life 2 in about 2008
40 Post contains images Gordonroxburgh : Not that is is ever going to happen; but here is one of Branson's models he got made a few years back, with the livery he proposed. I don't think tech
41 Donder10 : oh yes, he also vandalized the BA model on the entrance into LHR in the early 90's. What happened to him when he did this?A visit from his friends in
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