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HMY Applies For Domestic/USA Sched Service...  
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3336 times:

Oh Boy, yet another airline in the domestic market??? Enough is enough...last I heard HMY was almost ready to fold up, and now they are applying for Domestic sched, and USA sched service??? Seems to me like they are grasping for whatever they can....


Decision No. 125-A-2003
March 6, 2003
APPLICATION by HMY Airways Inc. pursuant to section 61 of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, for a licence to operate a domestic service, large aircraft.
File No. M4210/H203-1

Docket No. 030210

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HMY Airways Inc. (hereinafter the applicant) has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for a licence to operate the service set out in the title. The application was received on February 18, 2003 and was complete and ready for processing on March 5, 2003.

The applicant filed an affidavit attesting that within the twelve months preceding the filing of the application it did not contravene section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act (hereinafter the CTA) in that it has not sold, caused to be sold or publicly offered for sale in Canada transportation in respect of the applied for air service without holding the required licence. The applicant has also undertaken in respect of the air service applied for that it will not contravene section 59 of the CTA prior to the issuance of the applied for licence. The Agency is not aware of any evidence that the applicant contravened section 59 of the CTA within the preceding twelve months.

The Agency has reviewed the application and is satisfied that the applicant meets the requirements of section 61 of the CTA.

Accordingly, a licence to operate the following service will be issued to HMY Airways Inc.

domestic service, large aircraft




Decision No. 124-A-2003
March 6, 2003
APPLICATION by HMY Airways Inc. pursuant to subsection 69(1) of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, for a licence to operate a scheduled international service, large aircraft, between points in Canada and points in the United States of America.
File No. M4210/H203-3

Docket No. 021499

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HMY Airways Inc. (hereinafter the applicant) has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for a licence to operate the service set out in the title. The application was received on December 16, 2002 and was complete and ready for processing on February 26, 2003.

The applicant has been designated by the Minister of Transport in a letter dated April 4, 1995 to conduct international air transportation between points in Canada and points in the United States of America pursuant to the provisions of the Air Transport Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the United States of America signed on February 24, 1995 (hereinafter the Agreement).

The applicant filed an affidavit attesting that within the twelve months preceding the filing of the application it did not contravene section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act (hereinafter the CTA) in that it has not sold, caused to be sold or publicly offered for sale in Canada transportation in respect of the applied for air service without holding the required licence. The applicant has also undertaken in respect of the air service applied for that it will not contravene section 59 of the CTA prior to the issuance of the applied for licence. The Agency is not aware of any evidence that the applicant contravened section 59 of the CTA within the preceding twelve months.

The Agency has reviewed the application and is satisfied that the applicant meets the requirements of subsection 69(1) of the CTA. The Agency is also satisfied that the pertinent terms and conditions of the Agreement have been complied with.

Accordingly, the Agency will issue to the applicant a licence to operate a scheduled international service, large aircraft.

Pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA, the Agency deems the terms and conditions set out below to be consistent with the Agreement and will therefore include them in the licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision.

The licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision shall be subject, in addition to the conditions prescribed by the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended (hereinafter the ATR), to the requirements to hold a Canadian aviation document issued by the Minister of Transport and to have prescribed liability insurance coverage as set out in section 7 of the ATR, and to the following terms and conditions to which the licence is made subject pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA:


The Licensee is authorized to operate a scheduled international service between points in Canada and points in the United States of America.


The operation of the scheduled international service authorized herein shall be conducted subject to the appropriate provisions of the Agreement and to any arrangements related thereto as may be agreed to between Canada and the United States of America.


Unless terminated at an earlier date in accordance with the CTA or the Agreement, this licence shall terminate at the termination or expiration of the Agreement, or upon the effective date of any amendment to the Agreement which shall have the effect of eliminating the rights herein authorized.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

This was planned for HMY Airways. During the summer, they want to concentrate on domestic and transborder services. I know Toronto was definately mentioned in their plans, as well as possibly Hawaii and Las Vegas. What I wasn't aware of was their intent to operate these routes scheduled.

Another consideration about this application is start services to destinations that could eventually help feed traffic for their planned Asian services. I read in a Vancouver Sun article a week back, that HMY Airways is in talks with Boeing to aquire brand-new 767's and possibly 777's. The article indicated that they want to be designated the second official carrier to China and want to start service to secondary Chinese destinations like Harbin, Guanzhou, Macau, and one or two others. I can't remember all the details of the article, but their plan certainly seems ambitious. Thankfully for the airline, they have a wealthy finacial backer in Mr. Ho. Guess time shall tell!!


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

Very interesting, and it does seem to me that there isn't much room for anybody else at this point. Also, with Canada West still wanting to start up soon, it will be even more crowded. But nothing has been heard about Canada West in a long time, so we'll have to see I suppose.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

As was mentioned in another topic months ago, an individual who starts an airline simply because he was delayed once by AC in Hawaii a few years ago begs questions regarding the long range plans and sensibility of the business model. HMY certainly is ambitious - the question is how long Mr.Ho will be willing to sustain losses?


buhh bye
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

I agree with you Lymanm but I believe it was in Hong Kong where he realized there needs to be another carrier because he was delayed. I am guess he had a night of partying and wasn't quite sobered up or something.

User currently offlineBWIA330 From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3131 times:

This is great to see another airline in Canada expanding. Hope to see HMY here in Toronto soon flying to destinations in The US and the Caribbean. They can give Air Transat and Skyservice some competition on Caribbean and US routes for sure. Hopefully they start service to Trinidad, as they can take away some business from Air Transat and Skyservice. So if they take 767's and 777's, they would be the first operator in Canada to operate the 777. Sounds good to me.

Regards,

BWIA330


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

I think Transat will get 777's before HMY does....


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineJayce From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

I think this is excellent news. In time, hopefully HMY will be able to fill the void that was created when CP was taken over by AC. It may be a bit rush, but I believe they have the resources (read: money) to survive the startup phase. It is nice to see an airline based in YVR, and I wish them the best of luck.

And it was Maui that he was stranded in.



"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3020 times:

Fill the void left by CP??? Are you kidding??? ACA still maintains all of the CP asian routes, and WJ/AC/Jazz/Zip/Jetsgo has more then made up for the loss of domestic service in the west.... I still give HMY little chance...a good business person only waste so much of their own money before they call it quites...HMY with 777's is almost as big a pipe dream as YUL-HKG flights (Sorry mark had to do it  Big grin )


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineJayce From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2931 times:

I wasn't just referring to the Asian routes. CP had a huge presence at YVR and AC has reduced capacity in the past few years. As national as both airlines were/are, CP was more a western airline, and AC an eastern one.


"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

Where have they reduced capacity on the Pacific network specificaly?? Taipei was handed over to a code share with EVA Air whis makes more money for Air Canada, other then that I am not aware of any reduction on the pacific network...in some cases there has been an upgrade in service such as 747/340's on the HNL-SYD operation....The pacific is a big money maker, AC has kept that part of CP more then any other...In 2000 that was really all they had going for them...


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24926 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2888 times:

Is there any airline in Canada ( specifically charter airline) that could sustain the use of a 77? Air Transat would be hard pressed to fill a 777 even to LGW and MAN.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2873 times:

Slawko is correct in saying that much of CP's ex-Pacific operation is now retained by Air Canada. Sure their are routes that now receive different capacity levels than before, but for the most part the network is still there. What has been dismantled is the feeding flights to YVR, especially trans-border routes. This could probably be attributed due to the fact the CP's transborder partner was AA who didn't have a large presence, while of course Air Canada's is United who are a strong trans-Pacific operator.

My understanding of HMY's future plans is to serve new markets that currently aren't served from YVR, Canada, nor North America. Other destinations in China are being highly considered, since they want to be designated the 2nd carrier to China. Their flights would probably only occur a couple days a week, but the presence of a North American carrier at these airports would be a major thing. Possibly some SE Asia flights could be in the works, especially to more tourist destinations like Phuket.

I believe their plan, while somewhat vague, is a high-risk high-reward type scenario, and if it works, they could find a niche in the market, even if another plan is flying for Asian tour operators from major Asian cities to destinations in North America. Finally, they may want to beat Air Transat into the market, who have expressed interest in expanding into the Asian market in a 'couple of years'.


User currently offline1world From Canada, joined Jan 2002, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

HMY plans to target Macau as their destination of choice.

Here is an article that was written in the Vancouver Sun.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vancouver Sun Saturday March 1, 2003

Travel - Company owner David Ho is planning to buy more aircraft and is hoping to expand destinations to China, writes reporter Wyng Chow

Tycoon David Ho is seeking to fly higher and expand his horizons, less than four months after launching his new Vancouver-based chartered airline?s inaugural flight. Ho, sole owner of HMY Airways, has started the process of acquiring new aircraft, ultimately aimed at building up his fleet to seven planes over the next several years, as he establishes new international routes, including service to Asia. ?I?m looking at Boeing 767 s and 777s, as well as a business jet,? said Ho, fresh back from kicking a few tires at Boeing?s giant main assembly plant in Everett, Wash.
Ho, chairman and CEO of David T.K. Ho Enterprises, received the red-carpet treatment from Boeing officials, who wined and dined him before showing him planes with price tags of $200 million US each.
He said Friday he intends to place an order within the next two to three months, as soon as the operation of his airline?s two existing Boeing 757s ?get settled down.?
The typical waiting period to take delivery of a brand new jumbo jet from Boeing is two years.
Although acknowledging the abundant availability of quality used planes ? given the current state of the U.S. airline industry in the after-math of the events of September 11, 2001 and the looming war against Iraq ? Ho said he is ?leaning heavily toward buying new long-ranged aircraft.? Potential trans-Pacific destinations for HMY include Xi?an, Dalian and Harbin major cities in central or northern China that are not serviced from Vancouver by established scheduled carriers such as Cathay Pacific and Air Canada.
Ho is looking at non-stop flights from Vancouver to Macau, the former Portuguese colony, which would gain him a direct foothold into nearby Hong Kong, but without having to compete against industry heavy-weights like Cathay Pacific, Air Canada, Japan Airlines, or Singapore Air lines. ?There are various opportunities for someone well capitalized, who has a clear vision, to venture into selected markets where there?s no big competition,? said HMY?s corporate lawyer, Lyle Knott.

Besides HMY, Ho, heir to the Hong Kong Tobacco fortune, has extensive B.C business interests, including MCL Motor Cars, University Golf Club, DTKH Robson Developments and South Alder Greenhouses.
Ho, a frequent traveler, first decided to start his own airline in January 2002, after he and his young daughter were stranded for 18 hours at the Maui airport waiting for a return flight to Vancouver.
Currently, HMY, along with its sister company, Companion Holidays, is operating charter flights to five Mexican sunspots ? inaugural flight to Mazatlan took off from Vancouver Nov. 22 ? as well as to Las Vegas. This summer, the airline plans to focus more on domestic and trans-border destinations, including Toronto, Los Angeles and other U.S. cities.
Ho conceded HMY ?hasn?t made money yet? while undergoing initial growing pains, but he expects to ?break even? this summer and to start turning a profit in the fall. ?We?ve got a product superior to all our competitors,? he said. ?Now we?ve got to tell the world about it.?
HMY is currently negotiating with Transport Canada to add Hawaii to its list of destinations by late summer. Meanwhile, Ho is also seeking permission from Ottawa and Beijing government to be designated as the second Canadian carrier ? Air Canada is the other ? allowed to fly into China.
That process is expected to take about 18 months, while Ho awaits his order to be filled by Boeing, which earlier agreed to supply him with additional aircraft on short notice.
?Even before we get approval, we hope to have the planes ready,? he said.



YYZ spotter
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

I think Transat will get 777's before HMY does....

I won't hold my breath for either one.

Air Transat would be hard pressed to fill a 777 even to LGW and MAN.

That would not be a problem. Filling the 777 is easy. Filling it profitably is another matter. The sheer capital intensity of a 777 acquisition (as befits the world's most advanced airliner) renders it impractical for charter carriers.

If HMY wants to establish longevity, their should stick to charters with their used 752's and give up their nonsensical 763/772 wet dreams.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

Maybe the airline I am going to start with the Captain can do some code-share flights. Why was there so many question marks in that article?

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

Dash8, we'll have to convince Mr. Ho to have topless stewardesses!

An airline like Air Transat that is pretty consistently profitable would be able to acquire 777's at this point. Keep in mind, the 777 has been on the market for a number of years now, and more than a few are parked or available. If the 777's economics proved positive for Air Transat's operations, now would be the time to do it. However, short of them actually entering the Asian market, the A330 is probably a more economical choice for Air Transat.

HMY could in fact do very well on the Asian routes if they are done properly. But as spyderz said, this would be very high risk, but the rewards could be fantastic. We'll see how long it takes Air Transat to start Asian routes.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Yes we will do Business Travel with our DC-3's on the YYZ-YUL-YOW market and maybe a flight to YVR with one of DC-3's with a few stops along the way.

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Sorry, I want to avoid the YUL market, it's saturated there. Besides, YUL is one market that cannot support business travel. Let Zip, Tango, Westjet and Jetsgo fight over the low yields in YUL.  Big grin Mark, you hate me now, don't you?

In the next year, will we see Jetsgo expand, Canjet expand, Zip expand, Zoom expand, Westjet expand, HMY get into the domestic market, Canada West enter the market, Air Canada become profitable, and Transat and Skyservice continue their flights profitably? Something has to give in the industry. Air Columbus is gone, who's next? Will Canada West even get started?



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

I too have been wondering if CanadaWest will get off the ground. I thought they were pushing for April or something?

User currently offline1world From Canada, joined Jan 2002, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Dash8,

The article was actually emailed to me like that so I just left it the way I got it. Vancouver Sun doesn't have it on file anymore.

What kind of airline are you guys going to start? domestic / international charter? and let me guess Nuno wants 777!



YYZ spotter
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2775 times:

An airline like Air Transat that is pretty consistently profitable would be able to acquire 777's at this point.

I would say that TS is marginally profitable at best.

Used 777's might make sense for TS in 5-10 years but not now. The capital cost is still too high.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2769 times:

Here is the very well thought out Business plan of CaptainKing Airways.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1045816/

If things go well for us we may even upgrade the DC-3's to turbo prop or if demand for business seats is high enough we will think about DC-4's.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

With United possibly getting rid of some 777's, and BA also unloading 777's, and I'm sure Boeing has some brand new ones unaccounted for, it's now a good opportunity for airlines that have an operational requirement for 777's to get some. I don't think Air Transat does though. From Boeing, the 767 makes more sense, of course unless they are really serious about going to Asia (and reaching the destination).

1world, I'll start small with Super Connies, then work my way up to 777's. Unlike TS, my airline will be able to acquire 777's quickly, and be profitable.  Smile

My airline's first airplane:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Bulas



Second airplane:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Royal S King



Dash8king and I will be rich!

Nuno.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
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