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Toddler Tantrum Grounds Jet  
User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2046 posts, RR: 22
Posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3039 times:

http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/3774859?source=Evening%20Standard


II Cor. 4:17-18
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCarduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1586 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Quite right!

If the grandparents can't control the child, they should not be left in charge!

Airlines are not infant playschools, they are commercial operations - and very expensive at that. The AZ fare would be miniscule to the cost of offfloading bags, delaying the flight, and doubtless delaying its next rotation, etc, - apart from the hassle for all the other well behaved 99.9% of the passengers!

Can't see why the cabin crew offered 'extension junior lapstrap' when a child aged two has his own seat - and ANY seat belt would constrain the little *!



Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2030 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

I don't have children yet (not even married or out of school) but when I do, I'm going to use the same procedure my mother used on me: cough syrup.

Kids like the taste and a single dose will put them to sleep for a few hours. When I was very small, we would regularly fly 8 hours on a DC10 (from DFW to HNL) to see family. My sister and I both got cough syrup and were quiet and well-behaved the whole flight.

I'm not advocating drugging children. There's a difference between doping up your kid and taking steps to ensure that the passengers around you (who have also paid money for the flight) get the peace and quiet they deserve.

A lesson this kid's parents should take to heart...


User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

Damnit, Sleekjet, you beat me to it....

BA was right in off loading the grandparents and the child. If you cannot restrain your child or even get them to buckle their seatbelt, they ought to be kicked off the aircraft. Not only is it a safety hazard to have an unbuckled child on the aircraft, but a misbehaving child causes annoyance to nearly everyone else on board. I'm sure that all of us can count the times when we wanted to go find the parents of the misbehaving child on the airplane, and tell them what crappy parents they are. I was always a good little boy on airplanes because I liked flying so much, I would just sit quietly and look out the window the entire flight.

Jsnww81, I am calling social services right now, thats child abuse!  Big grin



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

We had a flight recently where a kid kept JUMPING up and down on the seat and trying to grab the seat in front of him and hang on, while taxiing, and the captain had to come out, and, well, from what I am told, he scared the life outta the little brat..Sat there the WHOLE flight without a sound  Smile

Anyway, don't we all (the Flight crew and Pax alike) just LOVE those day care flights??????????????? My personal favorite are when the parents or whoever let the kid run up and down the aisle from row 1 to 35 just crashing into ppl as much as they want.. Yet when a drink spills on their head, they whine and cry like they were hurt..  Big grin

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13562 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2915 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I am SO thankful that everyone here sees BA's actions as appropriate!

Air carriers are responsible for the safety, well-being and comfort of ALL their passengers, period.

If even one is being disruptive, regardless of age, they have a responsibility to the other customers to get that person in compliance or have them removed from the aircraft.

Bravo, British Airways! It's high time that other carriers stopped rewarding bad behavior and/or poor parenting by accomodating it and inconveniencing others in the process.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4590 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Here's a solution...birth control.  Big grin

Breeders and their breeding of out of control children.  Smile


User currently offlineStandby87 From Switzerland, joined Jul 2001, 536 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

a.net children are always well behaved!
My daughter was in the air before she was 2 months old and she's now perfectly behaved, it's a pleasure to fly with her. Takes her rucksack off at the Security Check, puts it through the X-Ray machine, shows her Passport, finds her own seat (a window please), was fastening her own seatbelt at 3 years old, and she only complains if the Inflight Entertainment's rubbish and she's finished her book! Yeah, she was difficult at around 2 years old, but no where near as bad as some brats I've seen.

In this case, it's easy to say, but I would guess the kid wasn't a regular flyer and his Grandparents should have took the time to explain to him what was going on and what he's required to do.

Failing that, drug them pre-flight like Jsnww81 suggests.


User currently offlineKevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Today's parents are so scared of kids. This kind of thing has happened so many times on flights that I've worked. The parents just look up at you, shrug and say, "She won't listen to me." It's so frustrating.


"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
User currently offlineAn-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3950 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

I was on a business trip to El Paso, TX back in July of 2002. I was flying America West DEN-PHX-ELP with around one hour layover in Phoenix. On the way there, their 737 was just packed. Of course, with my luck I ended up with a child behind me, who was annoying as hell. What is with kids kicking the seat in front of them? What was ironic though, is that his mother was reading him a book about manners, which involved 3 or maybe more bears. Apparently, Bears did not tell the kid that it was inappropriate to kick the seat in front of them..

On the way back, I was flying in their Cardinals 757, and a young couple was almost late for the flight - as soon as they got in, the door closed. They had a small child who would not stop screeming during the entire flight. That's irresponsible parenting, in my opinion.

Alex.



Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Excuse me. But BA's actions were far from appropriate. Yes, they may have had the right to offload the family, but to make them pay for another flight? That is a tad (in fact, way too) harsh.

Its a fricking 2 year old. I remember what it was like when I was 2. And, unfortunately, it seems I am all too often surrounded by 2 years old (particularly here on these forums).

Although, I am not a parent, I am wondering how many of the people on these forums who are critical of a 2 year old, have kids themselves (or are even old enough to be able to create a kids)?  Insane

Again, BA proves they really are Bloody Awful!


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13562 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2747 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Yes, they may have had the right to offload the family, but to make them pay for another flight?

Aviatsiya-

C'mon now, don't you think you're being a bit harsh? First off, airlines reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, so they didn't even need a reason to kick them off the plane.

However, they DID have a valid reason. This child was creating a safety problem onboard, and the grandparents' inability to maintain control over the child constituted both a safety concern AND a customer service problem for the other passengers.

It's logical to assume that the airline personnel believed that since the grandparents already exhibited a total lack of control over the child, there was no sense in booking them on a later flight, since the same problem would likely be the end result on that next flight.

So, BA did what they thought was right, which was to deny boarding and refund their money in full.

At that point, it's up to the customers to find their own way home.

[Edited 2003-03-12 19:42:40]


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

What this little brat and many others like him needs is a quick smack on the backside. I am continually amazed by the lack of discipline that I see parents administer to their children. When I was little, and I got out of line I was told only once to stop. If I failed, I got it! Looking back on those days I deserved what I got.

They just don't want to offend others or little Johnny or Marcello. I'll be damned if I let a little snotty nose kid or his ignorant grandparents delay my schedule.

Whack 'em! (softly, to make it know you mean business)

At BA, you delay, you PAY!






"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

EA CO AS

There is nothing mentioned in that article about BA refunding any money; only that they refused them tickets on a later flight, and the family then had to shell out more money to AZ.

Right or Wrong?

Well BA might have a right to refuse service, but to say that a 2 year old was creating a safety problem is going a bit too far also. With all the time that was spent with the delays, the kid could have been calmed down and probably asleep.

Also, one doesn't know how the cabin crew handled the situation. Were they gentle and calm or more terse in handling the situation?

I have an 19 month old nephew, and at times he can be a right little shit. But give him a few minutes to calm down, and he is as good as punch. Although I can only imagine what he will be like in 5 months time.  Laugh out loud


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2653 times:

Aviastiya:

Time is money in the airline industry. If these people could not handle the child then BA was well within it's rights to do what they did.


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2647 times:

Aviatsiya -

As a parent of a 10 year old child who has flown since she was 6 months old - by the time a kid is 2, they ought to know that throwing a tantrum will get them nowhere. That behaviour is encouraged when parents give in to the tantrums and give the kid what they wanted in the first place. They start playing this game pretty early in life, and you have to nip it. Yes, the noise can drive you crazy during this period, but the kids are pretty quick to learn...if they find that all the tantrums in the world won't get them their way, they'll soon stop throwing them. On the other hand, if the parents give in to them, they learn even more quickly that just a few minutes more should get them what they want.

And if the kid would have just tantrumed out and fallen asleep, what's to say he wouldn't have awakened a few minutes prior to arrival and tossed another tantrum because he didn't want to wear his seatbelt? And what if the little tyke was injured during the landing because he wasn't strapped in? Here in the USA I can pretty much assure you that a lawyer would have been contacted and an airline sued.

I have an idea that EA CO AS is correct, their money most likely was refunded. It just doesn't sound as good in the papers to mention that.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13562 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2612 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

There is nothing mentioned in that article about BA refunding any money; only that they refused them tickets on a later flight, and the family then had to shell out more money to AZ.

Yes, although no airline will refuse to provide service and also keep the money as well.

It's probable that the passengers, in their quest to tell their story as loudly as possible and make BA look as bad as possible, conveniently forgot to mention that BA refunded their money in the process.  Insane



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMSY-MSP From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2531 times:

At least from my experience, the problem with a lot of parents today is that they are afraid to discipline their children. As Clipperhawaii said, in the good old days, you acted up once, and then were put in your place. That may have been a quick spanking or slap on the wrist, but it was enough to put you in your place. However, in the US, parents are afraid to touch their kids when they are disciplining them, for fear of being accused of child abuse. This is particularly true in public places, where the "concerned citizen" will more likely call social services if they see this. On an airplane or any public place, the parent should be able to discipline their child without fear that the police will come down on them. Time out, just won't work in certain situations. A simple slap or spank should get junior to behave. I am not advocating beating junior to submission, but a quick action to get the needed response. I think what BA did was the correct action. If the child's guardian cannot get the child to behave, and other authority figures cannot either, then offloading the offending party is the practical and correct response. I don't know if any US airline would have the gaul to do this, but if it happened more often we might see more responsible parenting, and better behaved children. Those are just my thoughts.

MSY-MSP


User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Aviatsiya- BA's actions were very well done. The other day, on one of our flights, we had a frikkin kid sitting near the rear of the a/c, and he was screaming so LOUDLY for 3/4 of the flight most of the F/A's in the rear (myself included) could NOT hear the PA announcements.

Also, in flight one time, I forget what the routing was, there was a family travelling. Mom, Dad, and SIX KIDS.. ALL younger then 10.. And guess where they sat? The kids : 1 ABCDEF, the parents: 2AB... I walked up to the front for something, and the kids threw OPEN water bottles at me.. It was only water,b ut could have been something else. But are we allowed to say anything? No. Beucase if we do, they will scream cruelty, and sue or whatever.

Whoever said it: The answer is BIRTH CONTROL.. OR drug them before flight..

Also, I am NOT saying I was a perfect child. No one was.. But I'd wager that MOST ppl my age (I am 24) were not as out-of-control as that kid. I knew when to behave, and when I could have more "Fun". but then, my parents were responsible. I honestly hope BA does NOT refund their $, and this should be a message to everyone.. KEEP CONTROL OF YOUR KIDS..

I wonder what would have happened if the kid bit the F/A while trying to settle things.. Fun, huh?

chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3339 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

Flew KLM from AMS-DEL in August '02, have a screaming 3 year old child 3 rows ahead. his parents only kept him occupied for 30 minutes before he started screaming for the whole 8 hours. It really sucks because people are trying to sleep and you can because of a screaming child.

Leo/ORD
Finally got my UA Mileage Plus card. Came unexpectedly. I am expecting my NW card. should be coming w/in the next 2.5 weeks



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

I used to have a lot of experience dealing with infants and toddlers when I worked at the airport. These kids would just whine, scream, carry on, and wouldnt quiet down until either they were tired of screaming or you pacified them with what they wanted.

By the way.....I'm not talking about 2 year olds. I'm refering to our top frequent flyers who wanted a complimentary upgrade and didnt get it.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2287 times:

ClipperHawaii, you're right however, in today's far-too-politically-correct world, spanking kids is a major no-no. Some label it child abuse! Hogwash! It's attitude correction and is definitely needed. I was walking through a mall one time with my then-2-year-old daughter who was putting on one whale of a tantrum. I spanked her quickly (and lightly - just enough to get her attention and let her know I meant business) and she stopped. Someone walked up to me and told me not to hit her as it would break her spirit! I told him to mind his own damn business before I broke his "spirit". Point is, whatever you do to make your children well-behaved, be it discipline or cough syrup, someone will take offense to it!

I think BA did the right thing here for both a safety-of-flight issue and a customer service issue. Too many of us have been stuck in the "screaming baby section" and can sympathize with what the other pax on this flight were going through!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineSnoopy From Switzerland, joined Oct 2001, 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2265 times:

"Someone walked up to me and told me not to hit her as it would break her spirit! I told him to mind his own damn business before I broke his "spirit"."

MxCtrlr, I agree with your solution to the problem. But unfortunately there are too many do-gooders out there, many without kids, who would have been quite prepared to report you to the police and have you arrested on the spot. Heck, I used to get whacked on the backside with a hairbrush when I was real bad...I don't feel any lasting after effects. But I would like to think that I learnt the difference between right and wrong real quick!

The problem with young kids is that parents, particularly ones that do not fly often, are not really aware of what can cause kids to yell & scream when they are flying. A bit of a cold and you are already at risk that the kids ears will be hurting so much that even screaming doesn't give any relief! There are other things too. I'm all for tolerance, but when it starts to inconvenience a whole aircraft then it's beyond tolerance. On the face of it I think that BA did the right thing if they thought that there was no way the child would simmer down. Maybe they should have tried again (assuming they had space on a later flight), but I guess it's a snap decision based on the situation, the behaviour of all concerned and the probability of a re-occurence. So, all in all, none of us are really in a position to be judgmental.


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

The grandmother says she is not going to fly BA again...

Geez, I think BA is really begging now for some old milkshake one foot out of the grave and their little brat to fly on their airline.


User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

I first travelled at the age of 3 months to when we moved to Barbados to live. From to the age of about 12 I was on a plane 3 times a year. Since then about an average of twice a year. Choosing date and time I wanted to travel since 7.

I agree with BA, having a child screaming is annoying and when it gets out of control as it did in this case you need to kick the chile and the ill equipped parent/guardian out of the plane....

I cant understand what it is with these people and their children. It has totaly become out of control. If your child doesnt know how to behave and you need to do like what Jsnww81 talked bout drug them so that they wont get on like some child from hell in other words they would be calm when they have to fly. If it was me though nothing like a hard slap.

A more realistic attitude needs to be taken because all of this special glove treatment when dealing with children is only helping these talk shows and shrinks get more money.




Eagles Soar!
25 Post contains images MxCtrlr : This kind of behavior is not strictly limited to airlines. My wife worked for years as a waitress and some of the absolute abhorrent behavior I've wit
26 Fpdonald : OK, guilty of scanning this thread . . . but the same training. Anything unsecured, and launched at speed, is a cabin threat. Yep, no matter how tight
27 Gigneil : I think this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. The kid got scared and hopped under the seat. The article specifically says he didn't scream
28 Fpdonald : Article! How long was it . . . how did the parent/guardian react? How long do we wait? At some point a decision had to be made, and it was. At that po
29 Andreas : Quote: Geez, I think BA is really begging now for some old milkshake one foot out of the grave and their little brat to fly on their airline. That's s
30 Scand : This was an interesting thread. I have a 2 yr old my self, and he has a really nice habit when we go flying. He falls asleep. He usually sits trough t
31 Laxflyer : Congradulations Neil! Of all the posts made on the subject yours was the only one that made sense. There is a right and wrong way to handle a situatio
32 Post contains images EA CO AS : BA choosed the wrong way. Would it have really hurt for one of the FA's to take a few minutes to offer a soothing voice and an explanation in a tone a
33 Carduelis : As a listed FA, your comments appear most strange. Criticising BA staff, who are well trained professionals, is hardly the way to continue this thread
34 Post contains links Carduelis : Just to re-warn everybody about prowling hacks on 'airliners' the following has just appeared on Sky News Headlines - it is only a day late, and of co
35 Post contains images AA61hvy : BA/AA all the way!
36 LH423 : I will stand by my company's actions on this one. Especially after reading the Sky article, I can just see the two grandparents smiling endearingly as
37 Mikephotos : It's funny reading these replies, you can certainly tell who has children and who doesnt...thats for sure. Michael
38 Carduelis : Michael Whilst every is entitled to their opinion, whether you have children or not is irrelevant. Did you notice how many contributors were FOR the B
39 Mikephotos : I don't know and honestly don't care to know the full story so I did not comment if I was for/agaisnt the BA action. I just love when people without c
40 Gigneil : The point I was trying to make is that the captain's actions further delayed the flight and cost the airline more money. A little compassion vs. a har
41 Post contains images EA CO AS : A little compassion vs. a hardass approach is almost ALWAYS the appropriate action. Agreed, but the time for compassion is not at a critical phase of
42 HlywdCatft : No matter where it is, airlines, restaurants, grocery stores- parents need to keep their brats in check. George Carlin said it best- You might find yo
43 Mikephotos : No matter where it is, airlines, restaurants, grocery stores- parents need to keep their brats in check. And the same can be said for kids needing to
44 Carduelis : Neil 'The point I was trying to make is that the captain's actions further delayed the flight' THE REASON for the delay was that TWO pax refused to fa
45 Snoopy : "As I have said before, we not playing kids at kintergarden, we're travelling on a highly sophisticated aircraft that could be brought down by STUPID
46 Goldenshield : "Carduelis, please let's get real! The reason passengers are told to put their belts on is for their own safety and to protect airlines against liabil
47 Carduelis : Hi guys! Ever heard of a 'loose cannon' on a ship? Any unrestrained object on an aircraft can be potentially lethal, thus making the Captain bring the
48 Post contains links 4holer : Interesting link/ story to see since "drugging" a boisterous child was mentioned above. A NW FA is in hot water after allegedly spiking apple juice wi
49 MidnightMike : As an airline employee, good for them, I am glad they kicked them off of the airplane!! As a potential customer, I am even more excited that they kic
50 Luisca : Also snoopy remember that if a takeoff is aborted before V1 the aircraft will automatically make a full brake, the desacceleration is incredibly fast
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