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Delta Cuts All Mainline At ROC And BUF  
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

Here's the press release:

Delta Air Lines Expands Delta Connection Service at Buffalo and Rochester, N.Y.

ATLANTA, March 13 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL)
will expand its Delta Connection service featuring Bombardier CRJ regional
jets between Atlanta and the New York airports of Buffalo and Rochester
effective June 1.
At Buffalo, the new schedule will feature two new nonstop Delta Connection
round-trip flights, which expands service between Buffalo and Atlanta to seven
nonstop flights daily operated by Delta Connection carrier Comair.
At Rochester, the new schedule also will feature two new nonstop Delta
Connection round-trip flights, which expands service to Atlanta to six nonstop
flights daily, flown by Comair and Atlantic Southeast Airlines (ASA). The two
new flights will be operated by Comair.
"Our customers, especially business travelers, tell us that frequency of
service and access to our worldwide network via our hubs are very important to
them," said Subodh Karnik, Delta's senior vice president - Network and Revenue
Management. "These service enhancements increase the access to our largest
hub from Buffalo and Rochester by 30 percent, and customers also will have
continued access to our second largest hub in Cincinnati."
With the new schedule, all flights at Buffalo and Rochester will be Delta
Connection flights, operated by Delta's wholly owned subsidiaries, ASA and
Comair.
"Buffalo and Rochester are valued markets for Delta, and the decision to
change our service there to all Delta Connection flights was not made easily,"
Karnik said. "These changes were designed to give our customers what they
have asked for -- more nonstop and connecting options, and more flights
throughout the day."
Delta Air Lines, the world's second largest airline in terms of passengers
carried and the leading U.S. carrier across the Atlantic, offers 5,643 flights
each day to 438 destinations in 78 countries on Delta, Delta Express, Delta
Shuttle, Delta Connection and Delta's worldwide partners. Delta is a founding
member of SkyTeam, a global airline alliance that provides customers with
extensive worldwide destinations, flights and services. For more information,
please go to delta.com .

--------

Delta is in fact cutting capacity at ROC with this change; I don't know about Bufffalo. "30 percent increase in access" can only refer to number of connecting-flight pairs, which is at least something.

Delta's user-unfriendly trip-planner offers no option to show all daily flights on a route for any given day, and you have run several different hours and click on the flight number to get the aircraft type. I pieced together that ROC will have five CRJ-200's and one CRJ-700 on ROC-ATL in JUly.

DL just finished running 3 daily 722's on ROC-ATL, which was about 450 seats. That was changed this month to 2 MD-88's and 2 CRJ-700's, which is about 330. The June 1 schedule will cut us down to 320.

AirTran, meanwhile adds its third daily ROC-ATL 717 this month, for a total of (117 x 3) 351 seats. At Buffalo, AirTran has had 3 daily flights for years; even if Delta runs only CRJ-200's to BUF, at 7 flights that would put them at 350 and thus about the same as AirTran.

That means that as of June 1 three of the six Cartel-network carriers now run only regional-affiliate service at ROC, and (I think) two of them run only regional-affiliate service at BUF.

Moral of the story: AirTran's low fares and excellent service have clearly established them in Western New York. At least business travelers who want or need network-carrier reach, who will lose first class, will get something (I think) most of them would value more--greater frequencies.

Jim




52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZrb2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4529 times:

looks like you and I were on the same page on this one,,,,, gosh, these airports are soon to be all regional jet traffic. This mostly affects me for nostaligic reasons since I very rarely fly anything but WN to BUF. I don't like losing mainline jets. How soon before United goes all ACA to Western NY?

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6578 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4496 times:

If you want to see the entire flight schedule for a given day between two cities, just go to the "Flight Schedules" section on Delta.com.

http://www.delta.com/schedules/travel/reservations/flight_sched/index.jsp

ATL-ROC will have 4 CRJ200's and 2 CRJ700's...total 340 seats.

ATL-BUF will have 5 CRJ200's and 2 CRJ700's...total 390 seats.

DL's cuts in these markets reflect a few factors. First, DL's mainline fleet is shrinking, therefore some cities must lose mainline. Second, DL has never been a major player in Upstate NY, so cutting mainline in these markets is not a major surprise. Third, yields now stink because of Airtran,JBLU and WN's presence (in BUF's case), so DL has decided to squeeze down capacity. Short of a bankruptcy filing, DL will never have costs as low as the low-fare guys, so they have no choice but to trim down service in weaker markets.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

Also, no more service to DAL... all DL traffic now goes to Ft. Worth only.  Sad

User currently offlineBUFJets From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

Delta has been using CRJ-700's for at least some of the flights at BUF. I've not been on one of them yet. I'm really uncomfortable in CRJ-200's. I was looking forward to more MD-88's after full 727 retirement. BUF used to see MD-80's from US, AA, and, CO. Now I don't think we'll see any unless CO subs one in.

I'll choose a 717 every time over any CRJ.


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4463 times:

Just realized a mathematical goof, and thanks to FlyPNS1 a capacity goof as well. Thanks for indicating the "Flight Schedules" section.

February: 3 722s at about 450 seats;
April: 2 MD-88s and 2 CRJ-700's at about 420 seats;
June 1: 4 CRJ-200's and 2 CRJ-700's at about 340 seats.

So ROC still sees a net sizeable capacity drop, 450 > 400 > 340. And that last bigger drop is in the summer, when traffic and yields/margins are at their highest! There are of course many cities without B6/FL/WN out there to rake, so the planes are apparently better used elsewhere.

Agreed on most factors affecting DL's capacity cuts. However, Delta was a major player in Upstate NY in the 1990's, to the extent that anyone other than USAir was. (Just as Eastern, Delta's predecessor in UNY, had been from the 1970's forward. EA was second-biggest at ROC in 1987, for instance). USAir had over 50 percent at BUF and ROC, as they and their predecessors had had since the 1960's.

In 1995, for example, DL's schedule at ROC was typically 3 ROC-ATL nonstop 722's; 2 ROC-SYR-ATL 722's; and 3 ROC-CVG nonstop CRJ-200's. Compare with typical UA schedule of 6 722/733 mix to ORD nonstop, and 5-6 J32-J41 mix to IAD; and UA typical schedule of 5 M80/F100 mix to ORd, and 4-5 Saab each to JFK, BOS, and LGA.

Last 2 paragraphs were off the top of my head...no wonder I can't remember where I park my car at the mall half the time. I'm glad someone else out there enjoys discussing this info!  Smile

Jim


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4450 times:

In 1995, for example, DL's schedule at ROC was typically 3 ROC-ATL nonstop 722's; 2 ROC-SYR-ATL 722's; and 3 ROC-CVG nonstop CRJ-200's. Compare with typical UA schedule of 6 722/733 mix to ORD nonstop, and 5-6 J32-J41 mix to IAD; and UA typical schedule of 5 M80/F100 mix to ORd, and 4-5 Saab each to JFK, BOS, and LGA.

Let's try that again: DL figures OK
UA's IAD also usually included one daily narrowbody, anything from 732 to 722.
*AA* typical schedule was 5 M80/ F100 mix to ORD, and the aforementioned Saabs and routes.

Back to studying.

Jim


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4413 times:

looks like you and I were on the same page on this one,,,,, gosh, these airports are soon to be all regional jet traffic. This mostly affects me for nostaligic reasons since I very rarely fly anything but WN to BUF. I don't like losing mainline jets. How soon before United goes all ACA to Western NY?

I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen this year. But I think we'll see Air Wisconsin too, at both ROC and BUF. UA has been more dense at AA at both airports to ORD for the past couple of decades. We'll probably see a mix of Air Wisky BAE-146's and ACA CRJ-200's.

Jim


User currently offlineBUFJets From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4390 times:

If UA goes Regional at BUF, the price of a ticket to ORD is going to go way up. AE is selling out some of their ERJ's now. So if UA pulls even more seats out of the market, it will be even harder to get a last minute flight.

Maybe WN or Airtran will start service to MDW?


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

Wow,this was a shocker! I knew that ASA was using a CRJ700 when 1 722 r/t was phased out and that the MD88's will replace the 727 4-1. I can't believe DL will not have mainline. I flew ROC-ATL-ROC last Sunday to get on a 727 before they're gone and it was full both ways! If they reduce capacity by using CRJ's ticket prices will undoubtedly increase. This will likely help Airtran. I for one would rather fly a 717 than a CRJ for 2 hours.
I just think they're shooting themselves in the foot. If BUF & ROC are so important to DL they should stick with the MD88 or dare I say 757 ?
I remember back in July 95 DL used 732's to CVG,now its CRJ200's .



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineCO 757 200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

Seems to me atop all the mainline reductions that ROC has faced as of late as well as a article in the D&C a few months ago I read about this subject,that the director of GRIA Slaybaugh is literally holding the door wide open for the mainline airlines to walk out.

User currently offlineGD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4283 times:

Man, this is really starting to anger me. Delta is my favorite airline, but the management Delta has at the current time just plain sucks. First, when Mullen first became the CEO, customer satisfaction went down, then the 727's are retired faster (Ron Allen wanted to keep them longer), then DLX is axed for the somewhat poorly created Song Air, and now they are going into the stupid "replace all your mainline with RJs" craze. Man, I wish Ron Allen was still CEO.

Sorry, just had to vent.

-GD727



Mmmm forbidden donut.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6521 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4244 times:

Yeah, the Allen days are sorely missed. Here in New Orleans, nonstop Delta service to LAX, LAS, PNS, SLC, TPA, LGA, MCO have all been cut within the last few years. Great way to alienate the customers and at the same time improve Southwest's popularity!

DL has lost its way.


Steve in NOLA


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4219 times:

Maybe WN or Airtran will start service to MDW?

It's probably only a matter of time before WN starts MDW service from BUF. The new MDW airside building is nearing completion (parts are already open, ATA is using it) and WN will get additional gates. The vast majority of Western New York's low-fare air service is southbound; WN's single dailies from BUF to PHX and LAS are it for nonstop, and JetBlue's westbound flights through JFK are all transcons except DEN and SLC.

For Upstate NY, the Cartel-network carriers are pretty much it to the middle part of the country.

But AirTran probably won't start MDW from either ROC or BUF. I could be wrong, but I think Chicago isn't strong enough O & D from WNY to support several narrobodies. *Connecting traffic* is needed. Only Southwest, among low-fare carriers, offers a big enough hub at Chicago to make that work well.

ATA might be able to fly Saabs from ROC and BUF to MDW, but they probably couldn't fill 738's.

That's one more reason ROC needs to get Southwest. There isn't another viable option for low-fare service to the Midwest and much of the West. Fortunately, our local officials and Congresswoman are not deterred by the economy or WN's presence at BUF. We're still lobbying hard for our own WN station, and won't pipe down til we get it. If US is liquidated, WN will probably be at ROC and SYR within six months.

This will likely help Airtran. I for one would rather fly a 717 than a CRJ for 2 hours. I just think they're shooting themselves in the foot. If BUF & ROC are so important to DL they should stick with the MD88 or dare I say 757 ?

I agree. Again, DL has higher operating costs and wants to send their a/c where they can best service those high operating costs. There are enough folks in Rochester and Buffalo who need Delta's bigger connecting network that we'll have CRJ's aplenty, but we might not see mainline again.

But AirTran's success indicates that business folks as well as leisure folks are choosing lower fares in Western NY. The FF narcotic isn't as addictive as it used to be, especially since corporate travel depts are the ones making the decisions.

Jim


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6578 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4202 times:

Yeah, the Allen days are sorely missed. Here in New Orleans, nonstop Delta service to LAX, LAS, PNS, SLC, TPA, LGA, MCO have all been cut within the last few years. Great way to alienate the customers and at the same time improve Southwest's popularity!

These routes were cut because DL was hemoragghing money on them. They were LOSERS. Should DL just keep flying money losing routes just for looks and show??? Clearly, you don't run a business of your own.


User currently offlineN2111J From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4106 times:

Not good news at all for ROC fliers. I noticed the 6th daily roundtrip Delta is offering does not actually start until July 15th due to aircraft availability. I'm also very surprised that at least the early morning flight didn't stay mainline. They're decreasing that flight from a MD-88 to a CRJ, with a loss of 90+ seats. It would've made much more sense to have 2 CRJ's replace the 7am mainline departure, with one at 6:30 and another 8am as is being done at BUF, and what used to be done with 2 722's here a few years ago.

One other quick ROC note, the parallel taxiway project on the North side of runway 10-28 which was cancelled last summer, is back on the schedule this summer, along with several other improvement projects.

Mike


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6521 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4098 times:

"Clearly, you don't run a business of your own"

No, I do not (yet), but I can assure you that some of those routes were not HEMMORAGING money as you so eloquently put it. But, I guess you have to work at an airport to get the inside info like that right? No reason for attitude pal.


Steve in NOLA


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

I was hoping we'd hear from you Mike!

Not good news at all for ROC fliers. I noticed the 6th daily roundtrip Delta is offering does not actually start until July 15th due to aircraft availability. I'm also very surprised that at least the early morning flight didn't stay mainline. They're decreasing that flight from a MD-88 to a CRJ, with a loss of 90+ seats. It would've made much more sense to have 2 CRJ's replace the 7am mainline departure, with one at 6:30 and another 8am as is being done at BUF, and what used to be done with 2 722's here a few years ago.

This morning, Slaybaugh was ripping Delta in the Democrat & Chronicle. He pointed out that Rochester's business-heavy market produces demand for two-cabin service, and that Delta would just hurt itself. A friend who heard Slaybaugh speak at her engineers' group last year said that he has been very happy with the low-fare carriers, and had only acerbic criticism for the network carriers. Gee, why would anyone in Rochester feel that way?

This of course is the same Delta that suspended service at ROC for two weeks, with *a week's notice* in June 2001. That was after Monroe County had given them a year's notice about runway work that would require smaller a/c. Delta dumped thousands of other pax onto other carriers during a season when seat availability was limited. "Delta: We Have Contempt for our Customers, and it Shows."

One other quick ROC note, the parallel taxiway project on the North side of runway 10-28 which was cancelled last summer, is back on the schedule this summer, along with several other improvement projects. Mike

That's good to hear! What else is on the agenda this year?

Jim


User currently offlineGD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4081 times:

MSYTristar: Sorry to hear Delta has cut so much service from MSY. LGA-MSY sounds like a really profitable route! I'm surprised they cut it. I guess Mullen is even cutting fairly profitable flights, up here in PVD, they are planning to cut our MCO service, which they fill almost every day.

It's not that I don't like RJ's, it's just that I don't think they should be used on routes like a 7:00A flight from JFK-ATL which they could easily fill a 757 with. RJ's should be used on routes like BTV or BGR-CLT or ATL at the furthest. They should only be used at for routes going to and from small cities to hubs, that was their purpose when they were created.

-GD727



Mmmm forbidden donut.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6578 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4050 times:

No, I do not (yet), but I can assure you that some of those routes were not HEMMORAGING money as you so eloquently put it. But, I guess you have to work at an airport to get the inside info like that right? No reason for attitude pal.

Yes, loads out of MSY are usually quite strong and DL has no trouble filling the planes. However, yields into MSY are a very different story. The yields are very poor especially for a market as large as MSY. Part of the reason for this is WN's very large presence and part is the nature of MSY.

Even America West (a carrier with a very low-cost structure compared to DL) is struggling with one daily MSY-PHX flight. You'll notice AWA is using the smallest mainline plane they have and they have warned MSY that things need to improve. How could DL, with a much higher cost structure, possibly survive on routes like MSY-LAS and MSY-SLC?

As for ROC, it's nothing personal but DL has to make a decision. Yields in ROC have plummeted due to both Airtran's presence and a poor US economy. In addition, DL is reducing the size of the mainline fleet, so inevitably some markets have to lose mainline service. In all likelihood, ROC and BUF are some of DL's poorest performers, so they get cut.

People in ROC and BUF have made it clear they prefer the service of low-fare carriers and don't want to pay the prices for the network carriers. So the network carriers have been forced to pullback, every choice has its consequences.


User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

Like you I'm a big fan of Delta. But everything you mentioned as being bad is actually good. I think Delta management is doing a fine job considering this crazed industry.

1. I don't have any stats on customer service going down when Mullin took over from Allen, so I would need to see proof that's the case.

2. Retiring the 727s faster is a GOOD thing. They are inefficient in terms of fuel use and having three-man crews. Don't you notice how all other airlines have gotten rid of them? You don't hang on to nostalgia if it means losing money.

3. Song is not poorly created at all. It will be just like Air Canada's Tango, which to most analysts has been a success. Delta has got try something beacuse the current model sure isn't working.

4. Replacing mainline with RJs is necessary in many markets. You just can't continue to run an MD-88 with 50 passengers and be profitable. At least Delta is preserving the Delta brand on these routes rather than abandon them altogether.

Again, Delta mangement is obviously doing a far better job than their two larger competitors, AA and UA. For 2002, here are the results:

Delta lost 1.287 million
AA lost 3.511 million
UA lost 3.212 million

Delta clearly has the best future of the big 3 at this point in time.


User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

Jim, that runway thing reminds me....do you still have the "Cartel Carriers' Gilligan's Island" song handy? -Mark


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineThe Rock From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

Does anyone know if SYR is keeping mainline service?
If so, why?


User currently offlineGD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3952 times:

ORD-To answer you questions:

1. I don't have any stats on customer service going down when Mullin took over from Allen, so I would need to see proof that's the case.

I don't know about you, but before Mullen took over, all I ever heard about Delta was good. When Mullen took over, I started hearing a few complaints, now there seem to be more and more every day. (I base this on what I hear from everyday customers.)

2. Retiring the 727s faster is a GOOD thing. They are inefficient in terms of fuel use and having three-man crews. Don't you notice how all other airlines have gotten rid of them? You don't hang on to nostalgia if it means losing money.

Maybe it is just my undying respect for that glorious bird known as the 727, but I don't think they are really inefficient enough to hurt the airline. Sure, other carriers like UA and AA have ridden of their 727s, and they are some of the worst off airlines (economically) in the U.S., why should Delta follow the examples of them?

3.Song is not poorly created at all. It will be just like Air Canada's Tango, which to most analysts has been a success. Delta has got try something because the current model sure isn't working.

The only reason DLX is not working is because the workers are paid the same as plain Delta, but since DLX is a low-fare airline, they should only be paid about the same as WN's workers.
The reasons I don't like Song are:

1. They are only focusing on large, inconvenient airports like JFK and BOS. I have no problem with them serving these airports, but JFK and BOS are both a hassle to get into and fly out of. They should serve airports like PVD, MHT, and ISP like Southwest.

2. They are hiding the Delta name behind a new name. Where is the company pride in that? They should have something that says "Yes, we are a Delta company and proud of it". At least Metrojet was noticeably a Us Airways company.

4. Replacing mainline with RJs is necessary in many markets. You just can't continue to run an MD-88 with 50 passengers and be profitable. At least Delta is preserving the Delta brand on these routes rather than abandon them altogether.

True, in many markets replacing the RJs with mainline is necessary, but BUF and ROC? I think not. All I know is BUF is almost the exact same size as PVD and gets plenty of passengers. At PVD we have several 757's and MD-88's to ATL and CVG per day with DL (all 85 to 100% full), and Buffalo gets just as many people as PVD.
As for ROC, it is not as big as BUF and some flights do need to be replaced with RJ's, but not all of the flights. I think 2 daily CRJ-200s and one daily MD-88 would work fine, ROC isn't that small!
Also, do you think a CRJ-200 is appropriate for running a 7:00A service from JFK-ATL? The service does exist! They could fill a 757 on that route!


I mean no offense or attitude to anyone in this post, it is just my opinion.

-GD727



Mmmm forbidden donut.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6521 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3937 times:

MSY-LAX and LGA made money for Delta for decades...as did SLC for quite a while. LAS...no one makes money to LAS...they cut that route along with many other LAS runs (BOS, MCO, etc). MSY is traditionally low yield, but we have a few routes which are not, ie, LAX nonstops, NYC, even ATL/IAH/DFW to an extent, as those are the biggest business routes out of the city. Mostly low yield, but not totally. AA is thriving on its MSY-LGA nonstop...look for a second flight before too long. DL just diminished its prescence in MSY, not due to poor yields, but because of better "asset allocation"...more hub flying. MCO service was a Delta trademark since the early 80's...I probably miss that service the most.


Steve in NOLA


25 Post contains images MSYtristar : Just to clarify a couple of points, then I'm all done, I promise HP serves MSY with a 737-300, which actually holds more pax than the A319. According
26 United_Fan : Unbeleivable. I won't be flying DL in a CRJ for 2 hours when I can fly in a 717 . First A^A ,then DL who's next ? UA , NW ? Us ROC spotters will only
27 Jetlanta : MSYTristar, With all due respect, the MSY routes you mention were NOT profitable for Delta in the years before cancellation. I'd be interested to see
28 Gigneil : GD727- Clearly, if they could fill a 757 on the 7am departure, they would, wouldn't they? They're not arbitrarily axing profitable routes to piss us o
29 N2111J : I like to see ALL airlines do well here in ROC. The greater number of airlines, flights, and choices available are to everyone's benefit. But to say t
30 MSYtristar : How can anyone say that Delta is a well run airline? I do not see much evidence supporting that theory. Delta, as a whole, has been in decline since M
31 DCA-ROCguy : Sorry, Mark, I'm not sure where the song is, or what thread it was in to search. If I find it I'll post! Jim- I only had a quick look at the summer co
32 PSU.DTW.SCE : ....and the NW DC-9's keep on coming. At least NW is still offering a majority of mainline into ROC and ALB, heck they've even increased service latel
33 GD727 : Gigniel: 1. First of all, I cannot and will not believe that a CRJ is all Delta can fill on a 7AM flight from JFK a gigantic airport to ATL, another g
34 PSU.DTW.SCE : NW's DC-9's are all older, some even from the late '60's, than DL's 727's. One of the reasons that the DC-9 has lasted longer than the 727's, is that
35 Post contains images FlyPNS1 : Everyone on this board seems to believe that a full mainline plane means DL is doing well in ROC. However, a full plane does not necessarily equal a p
36 Gigneil : 1) Since I don't know the load factors -and more importantly, the yields- and you haven't mentioned them or don't know them either, we really can't ar
37 N2111J : Jim, I did see your editorial about the plan for the central screening check point, and I agree 100% that it's basically a 'feelgood' approach that wa
38 Post contains images United_Fan : N211J,always good to hear from someone in the know in ROC! I didn't hear about that,but I don't read the stupid D&C. That would be great for the area
39 DCA-ROCguy : Ironically, some on this board (cough DCA-ROC cough) who are complaining about DL's pulldown, would be the first to scream bloody murder if DL increas
40 RJ : You all crack me up. With the exception of FlyPNS1, you just don't get it. It's called yield management. Just because the plane is full, doesn't mean
41 United_Fan : My view,as a passenger,is say you wanted to book a trip . With DL cutting capacity,the CRJ will fill up faster than say a MD88. So the customer will
42 Ord : In response to your comments... First, the CRJs are mostly put on routes where demand is not more than 50 passengers per flight. So, better to run a C
43 BUFJets : I find it interesting that Delta's decision to go to all RJ's at BUF and ROC is nearly coincident with the retirement of the 727's from Delta's fleet.
44 Ouboy79 : As ORD said... First, the CRJs are mostly put on routes where demand is not more than 50 passengers per flight. So, better to run a CRJ with 40 passen
45 DCA-ROCguy : DCA-ROCguy, I checked some fares on that route and Delta was only about $20 bucks more expensive (I couldn't tell if tax is included on the web fares.
46 GD727 : FlyPNS1: DL fell to dead last in on-time ranking, dead last in baggage handling and practically dead last in every DOT category Really? Can I see some
47 FlyPNS1 : Okay, to all of you who are in favor of this DL regional jet craze, if cutting the mainline on these routes is such a good idea, then why can Airtran
48 MSYtristar : "That might work, but DL needs many of those DLX 732's to help replace the 752's that are going to Song." The 200's will be replacing some 757 routes?
49 RJ : Well for starters: You don't fly a jet that costs you an arm and a leg to operate. Case in point, the 727 burns about 4500 lbs FF/engine at FL310 (th
50 Travatl : FLYPNS1 said (regarding AirTran) - But for the FA's, GA's, customer service reps, etc, the low pay and long hours will burn them out. That's actually
51 Zrb2 : Interesting that the Buffalo News finally runs an article a week and a half after the announcement was made. That's some timely reporting! The article
52 DCA-ROCguy : It's not surprising that DL's loads on BUF-ATL are around 80 percent; I'd be suprised if Rochester wasn't the same. But DL can't charge high enough fa
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