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NW Orienrt At ORD In '79  
User currently offlineDr.DTW From United States of America, joined May 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Here is NW Orient's scheduled nonstops out of Chicago (ORD) in December, 1979. Very interesting!! 56 nonstops to 20 destinations. including a 747 to TPA! All aircraft are 727's, unless otherwise noted.

Ancharage (ANC) 1 (DC-10)
Atlanta (ATL) 1 (DC-10)
Billings (BIL) 1
Cleveland (CLE) 5 (1 DC-10)
Detroit (DTW) 6
Ft. Lauderdale (FLL) 2 (1 DC-10)
Ft. Myers (RSW) 1
Madison (MSN) 4
Miami (MIA) 3 (1 747, 1 DC-10)
Milwaukee (MKE) 1
Minneapolis (MSP) 15 (1 747, 6 DC-10)
New Orleans (MSY) 3
New York (JFK) 2 (1 747)
Portland (PDX) 1
Rochester (RST) 2
Seattle (SEA) 2 (Both DC-10's)
Spokane (GEG) 1
Tampa (TPA) 3 (1 747)
Tokyo (NRT) 1 (747)
Winnipeg (YEG) 1

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8168 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Fascinating. Thanks for posting this. I love old timetables, one thing worth noting is that the aircraft involved are the same actual planes we fly on today (well, in this case, in the late 90s) but their use is completely different. As you pointed out, imagine nowadays NW putting their 747-200s to work on O'Hare to TAMPA! Awesome.

Check out this picture (click View Large), what a babe.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Johan Ljungdahl



[Edited 2003-03-15 21:50:39]


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

Yes, I agree! Fascinating!

1979 was barely after deregulation in the days before hubs were all the rage, and yet NW effectively had a hub at ORD!




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

Wow 4 727s and 1 DC-10 to Cleveland a day! Thats about the biggest hub operation weve ever had!


A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineDIA77 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 705 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

Thanks for posting that Dr. DTW, I can't even imagine seeing that many NW aircraft at ORD these days. I miss the glory days of commerical aviation....

User currently offlineCapt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

VERY INTERSTING

I remember when NW used to toot about having the most domestic 747 service.

I do miss those days. Actually, it would be nice to see NW have some routes that don't involve DTW, MSP, or MEM. Of the majors, I believe they are the only 100% spoke system, domestically.



User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Ironically, before Republic didn't American have a pretty large operation at DTW? I remember seeing a lot of silverbirds when I was a kid.

User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2529 times:

Dr. DTW, where did you get that list anyway?

I would like to see lists of other airlines at other airports back in the day.


User currently offlineDr.DTW From United States of America, joined May 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

HlywdCatft:

The info was taken from a NW Orient timetable from Dec. '79.

I also have many AA timetables from the early 70's, and your right, they did have a "mini-hub" in DTW, with nonstops to many cities, including LAX and SFO. I'll try and post their nonstops out of DTW here sometime.


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

I wish we could access time tables on line

Do you have any NW time tables from right below the NW/Republic merger?

At that time NW was the second biggest airline at DTW with 40 daily flights. I knew at that time NW flew to at least ORD and MSP, but I was not sure where else, but their whole fleet came to DTW then.

But those non hub flights back in the 70s and 80s ruled.

I flew a Delta L1011 DTW-FLL and back nonstop in 1978 when I was 3 yrs old.

Do you have time tables for the other airlines too?

I remember when TWA flew L1011s and 767s to DTW from I don't know where and when AA and UA also used to fly widebodies to DTW in the 80s.



User currently offlineCapt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2453 times:

Before the NW Orient / Republic merger, NW Orient flew from Detroit to ORD, MSP, EWR, JFK, PHX, PHL, MSN, LAX, TPA, BOS, MKE, DCA/BWI ... I'm not sure what else, but I believe that's most of it.

TWA flew L-1011s and 767s from Detroit to St. Louis in the early/mid-1980's I truly miss seeing those beauties.

United and American always had DC-10s and 767s at DTW throughout the 1980s, flying to their respective hubs. UA & AA were pretty big guns at Detroit before Republic came in and made it a hub in 1983. Both UA and AA occasionally flew 747s into Detroit in the 1970s. I recall AA flew a 747 DTW - LAX at one time.

Delta has been flying 767s into Detroit for 20 years. I think they stopped flying the L-1011 to DTW in 1987 ... but the 763 / 762 have been continuous and welcome visiters here, flyting to ATL and occasionally CVG. I remeember seeing many Delta DC-8s in the mid-80s... yes, the good 'ol days. At one time, Delta flew to MCO, PBI, FLL, MIA, TPA out of Detroit. These "Florida routes" were discontinued in the early 1990s.



User currently offlineSoupthansa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Here are some route maps :







User currently offlineSoupthansa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2430 times:





User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Capt.Fantastic,

DL flew L1011 aircraft MCO-DTW-LGW until 1995, when NW acquired the rights to DTW-LGW and DL discontinued DTW-MCO (which was operated by one MD-88 and one L1011 at the time). DL discontinued B767 service into DTW on December 1.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

Delta flew DTW-LGW? For how long?

User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

Timz,

DL acquired the rights to DTW-LGW in 1991 from PanAm and flew the route until NW purchased the rights in 1995.


User currently offline777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

Interesting to see how important Hilo used to be to the Big Island back in the 70s and 80s. I flew the DC-10 LAX-ITO several times back in my day, and it was, at the time, a very popular route. If memory serves me, when we pulled up to the terminal (no jetways here), there were DC-8s and DC-10s of United, L-1011s of Delta, DC-10s of NW, AQ 737-200s, and HA DC-9s. It wasn't a big airport by any means, but it was quite busy, certainly moreso than it is today with all mainland operations now using Kona. The map above shows a continuation to HNL from ITO, but I'm not sure if we operated it when I flew the route.

We used to be real big at LAX. I kinda miss those days...


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

**DL flew L1011 aircraft MCO-DTW-LGW until 1995, when NW acquired the rights to DTW-LGW and DL discontinued DTW-MCO (which was operated by one MD-88 and one L1011 at the time). DL discontinued B767 service into DTW on December 1.**

An L1011? Are you sure? The DTW-LGW route was run by an A310 as far as I know, because I recall seeing a Delta A310 at the International terminal for a while in the 90s after Pan Am went under.



User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

**Delta has been flying 767s into Detroit for 20 years. I think they stopped flying the L-1011 to DTW in 1987 ... but the 763 / 762 have been continuous and welcome visiters here, flyting to ATL and occasionally CVG. I remeember seeing many Delta DC-8s in the mid-80s... yes, the good 'ol days. At one time, Delta flew to MCO, PBI, FLL, MIA, TPA out of Detroit. These "Florida routes" were discontinued in the early 1990s.**

Delta hasn't flown any 763s into DTW since 9-11 and once yes I saw the 764 come to Detroit again summer of 2001... the ATL-DTW flight that arrives at DTW around 2:45-3pm.

As for the L1011s, I would see them occassionally at DTW as late as 1997 trading off with the 767s for a departure shortly before 6pm. I used to work near DTW and often saw the L1011 lined to take off.

I think all 767s by Delta have been discontinued recently. I flew on them last summer, both were 762s. I left at 8:45am on one flight DTW-ATL and arrived at 10:00 pm on the return flight.


User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

HlywdCatft,

I was responding to Capt.Fantastic's statement that DL discontinued scheduled L-1011 service into TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW in 1987. DL's flight from CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO-TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW-LGW rotated between scheduled A310 and L-1011 service until it was discontinued in late 1994/early 1995. DL also flew A310 from TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW-JFK via early 1995. At its peak, DL operated as many as four B763 ATL-TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW (in summer 2000). However, DL stopped flying B763 into TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW shortly before 9/11 – but substituted with B762. DL ended its scheduled B767 service into TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW on 12/1/02.

Below is a listing (copied/pasted, so please excuse the format) of service changes at TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW among the majors during the past few years. Also included is a comparison of departures (and departures ONLY) pre 9/11 vs. today. This listing includes only the major carriers (excluding NW and NK – the latter of which regularly changes its service).

American Airlines discontinued service to their defunct BNA and RDU hubs in 1995. Service to LGA was added in 2000. Prior to September 11, AA operated 8 flights to DFW (3 727, 4 S80, 1 F100), 9 to ORD (five F100, four S80), 1 to MIA (727) and 4 to LGA (ERJ). On their upcoming schedule, AA will operate 6 flights to DFW (3 S80, 3 F100) to, 7 to ORD (5 F100, 2 738), 5 to STL (S80), 2 to MIA (738) and 5 to LGA (ERJ).

Trans World Airlines discontinued service to JFK (usually three MD-82/83 flights) on 12/1/99. Prior to September 11, TW operated 6 flights to STL – three MD-82/83, two B717 and one DC-9-30. AA currently operates five MD-82/83 to STL.

United Airlines Prior to September 11, UA operated 7 flights to ORD (3 B757, 1 A320, 3 B727), 4 to DEN (2 B727 and 2 B733) and 4-6 to IAD (J31). On their upcoming schedule, UA will operate 8 flights to ORD (5 733, 3 735, 1 CRJ), 3 to DEN (1 A320, 2 735) and 4 to IAD (CRJ).

Delta Airlines discontinued service to LGW in late 1994 and CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO on 4/30/95. Service to SLC was added 6/1/98 and discontinued 9/16/01. Prior to September 11, DL operated 8-12 flights to CVG (one B757, the rest CRJ/turboprops), 8 to ATL (3 B762, 3 B752, 3 MD88), 2 to SLC (733) and 1 to JFK (CRJ). On their upcoming schedule, DL will operate 11 flights to CVG (9 CRJ, 2 CR7), 8 to ATL (2 B757, 5 MD88, 1 CRJ) and 1 to JFK (CRJ).

Continental Airlines Prior to September 11, CO operated 7 flights to EWR (1 MD80, 3 B733, 3 B735), 5 to IAH (1 738, 4 MD80) and 4-5 to CLE (ERJ). On their upcoming schedule, CO will operate 8 flights to EWR (1 73G, 3 735, 4 ERJ), 5 to IAH (2 738, 1 73G, 2 733) and 4 to CLE (ERJ).

US Airways Prior to September 11, US operated 6 flights to PIT (3 733, 1 F100, 2 turboprops), 5 to PHL (3 733, 2 100) and 4 to CLT (1 734, 3 100). On their upcoming schedule, US will operate 6 flights to PIT (ERJ), 6 to PHL (4 733, 2 CRJ) and 5 to CLT (3 733, 1 ERJ, 1 CRJ).

America West Prior to September 11, HP operated 4 flights to PHX (3 A320, 1 A319) and 1 to LAS (A320). On their upcoming schedule, HP will operate 4 flights to PHX (4 A320, one flight upgraded to B757 during the summer) and 1 to LAS (A320).

Southwest Airlines will add daily service to PHX next month; seasonal weekend service to CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO and TPA was added this year. Prior to September 11, WN operated 11 flights to MDW (8 733, 3 732), 6 to STL (733) and 3 to BNA (2 73G, 1 733). On their upcoming schedule, WN will operate 9 flights to MDW (1 73G, 7 733, 1 732), 3 to STL (1 73G, 1 733, 1 73G), 3 to BNA (73G) and 2 to PHX (733).

International Carriers Air Canada added five F28 flights to YYZ during summer 2000; they will operate 4 DH1 flights on their upcoming schedule. British Airways downgraded their daily LHR flight from a B744 to B772 to B763 (the only transatlantic flight to LHR, other than BWI). Lufthansa downgraded their daily FRA flight from a B744 to a A344. KLM, which continues to rotate equipment on their daily flight (B744/B743/B74M/MD11), will discontinue service during the summer but return this fall (with the B772). Royal Jordanian entered the market with once-weekly A310 service recently.

[Edited 2003-03-17 20:08:31]

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