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Will NW Pick-up Any UA's 747s?  
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4422 times:

Hi folks...
Just curious as to whether Northwest will purchase any 744s from United, while UA is under bankruptcy protection. United has 2 -451s that I think NW would love to have in their fleet, not only for compatibility but to replace a few DC-10s as well. Any thoughts from anyone on this? Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16280 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4397 times:

Given that Thai picked up 7 ex-UA 744's with a low per-unit price, you have to assume that NW would do the same thing given that they are in better financial condition than UA. The oppy to add some used PW 744's to replace their 742's must be an option in NW HQ.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDtw/ord fan! From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4351 times:

It would be a good idea. Get a peice their Pacific route as well.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5824 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

While I think it's a great idea, I also think it came at the wrong time.
NorthWest can't afford to buy planes! Even 744s from United at a cost of $80 million a pop. They simply don't have the cash. None of the majors do; nowadays, there are far more pressing goals than new acquisitions... like payroll.
When you are bleeding cash as fast as Northwest (and others) I don't think it's wise to spring for an opportunity as expensive as this one.
Randy


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

Have you ever heard of something called financing?


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4207 times:

like NW has the money to buy anything right now.

ual 777 contrail


User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

I can't believe it's UA in chapter 11 and not NWA! Talk about an airline that offers consistently poor service! From this frequent flyers point of view, United tops NW in just about every category. I seem to recall hearing bad things about NW 747's....is it the pitch that is poor? Certainly, no PTV's in coach for the lonngggg haul Asia flights from DTW does not help.

Steve in NOLA


User currently offlineAirbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

MSYtristar, now why is NWA not in Chapter 11 while UA is..

It has been mentioned before, despite the fact that NWA's has a rather old fleet in average age, they prefer to go with fully depriciated and paid for aircraft with a new interior rather than a high lease rate new planes like many majors are doing. It is fine buying new planes but when something wrong happens and there is a major fall in demand, you will be flying brand new planes empty.

NWA might not have all the fancy product and not a very good cabin crew, they certainly do have value for the price of their ticket. This is the market they are trying to capture. And this is why NWA is not in C11 like UAL.


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

- "Certainly, no PTV's in coach for the lonngggg haul Asia flights from DTW does not help."

Then if they did take 747s from UA then they wouldn't have to do very much, as UA's don't have any either!  Smile

star_world


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

Even though United may have offered better service, NWA has better management that doesn't blow their money trying to take over other airlines.

Yes I have had way better service on NW flying between DTW and ORD/MDW than I have flying UA between DTW and ORD. I thought United's service was piss poor.


User currently offlineDtw/ord fan! From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

Oh geez, they never go away do they? No matter how much Northwest spends to improve it's fleet, no matter how good their on-time performance is, there will always be people who bash them. The service IS getting better. All people do is complain. If you want to complain go complain about China Airlines and their safety record, something that MATTERS.

User currently offlineRhino4ever From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3985 times:

NWA is buying planes. Last fall they got over $800 million to finance aircraft deliveries this year and early next year for 16 A-319/320, 8 757, and 12 A-330's. Boeing has offered NWA several deals for 747-400's to include converting their -200's to freighters. With 10 747-200's to be parked, imagine they will pick up some -400's soon as their Pacific loads are very high.

User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3947 times:

NWA just needs to re-train it's cabin crew on how to be more "personal". That's the biggest problem I've had with them, really...poor service. Old junky planes? Yeah sure, but at least the interiors have been spruced up, although the seats in coach and first aren't really padded too much.  Smile


Steve in NOLA


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

dtw/ord fan
think how we feel, we get bashed daily by people like hlywdcatft who can read the papers and see we are far better than NWA is every category. NWA Was in the USA TODAY and they said NWA should be in bankruptcy now, they don't have the money some of the others have, we'll see with war looming maybe they will slip into it to save their asses.


ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6474 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3753 times:

Ual777contrail,
I read your message several times and still do not understand it. What papers should I read to see that UAL is better than NWA in every category? What categories are you talking about? Is one of the catagories making money? How about on-time or maybe load factor? If Northwest should be in bankruptcy, why aren't they?


User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3748 times:



I thought NWA had $2.5billion in cash reserves not to mention the
value of their AA), Japan">NRT property, plus a fleet that is nearly all paid for,
granted older aircraft but fully amortized. They will lower their
costs especially if UA and AA succeed, and may have to do it through
Chapter 11, but I think NWA is probably is one of the healthier U.S.
airlines right now.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineDtw/ord fan! From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3679 times:

MSYtristar- "old junky planes"??? Thats like saying a '67 Corvette is a peice of crap compared to a new Corvette simply becuase it doesn't have power windows or a cd player.

User currently offlineDtw/ord fan! From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

I will believe NW is in bad trouble when CNN reports on their financial status everyday just like they are doing UAL. Now, in NO WAY am i saying UAL is a bad airline. It will be a devastating loss if they go under. But Northwest is in the taking delivery's of dosens of new planes each year, are about to completely overhaul their image, just helped spend upwards of $4 billion at DTW and MSP, and I haven't heard a peep. Now, find the article that says NWA should be in bankruptcy, post the link and prove us wrong.

User currently offlineDrdivo From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3640 times:

You know, I don't understand people who bash NWA customer associates.

I have flown NWA a lot in the last couple of years, albeit in front (love that Platinum Elite status) and have never had anyone who was downright rude. They're more Midwestern in their approach, perhaps they don't gush, but they're more than helpful.

I'll agree that they're not as overtly friendly as those who work for my favorite airline, but they're certainly not UNFRIENDLY.



Respectfully - the Divo
User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3592 times:

To address the original question, it’s heavily rumored that NW previously contacted UA about the prospect of purchasing a few of their B744. Obviously, no deal was made. NW will replace most of their B742 flying with the A330 (MSP-AMS and transpacific flights originating on the West Coast) in the short-term, with the B773 (transpacific only) in the long-term if economics demand. If NW does add to their B744, and I stress “if”, I wouldn’t expect more than 4-6 planes and I would expect that the majority would serve expansion (e.g. DTW-HKG, the return of LAX-SYD). The bottom line is that NW feels as though the B773 provides better economics than the B744 (and, to a much, much lesser degree, the A346 which is also a strong possibility but not as likely as the B773 at this point).
- - -
To address some of the other comments made within this thread, I’m tired of the childish posts… if you live in Denver/etc., or work for United/etc., then I would expect some degree of loyalty toward UA. But that doesn’t make NW a poor airline. Yes, UA offers a slightly more premium product than NW, but one could argue that if not for cost-cutting, NW would’ve upgraded their product. UA hasn’t made as many cuts as NW, and that contributes to their financial woes… and of course that doesn’t make them a better airline. Yes, we’d all like wide, comfortable, reclining, vibrating, massaging seats with huge TVs that have the latest ondemand video, and exceptional service that includes 5-course four-star restaurant meals… but very, very few of us are willing to pay for it. So, we get (essentially) what we pay for. WN has offered $99 each-way fares since the beginning of last August (and yes, there’s been a few days in which WN hasn’t offered the sale – don’t nitpick me).

Ual777contrail – USA Today has praised NW’s cost-cutting measures… it has also predicted (in the past at least) that UA’s failure to adapt to market changes (e.g. cut capacity, cabin services, etc.) is a contributing factor to their woes. At least one columnist that I know of has predicted UA’s liquidation. So if USA Today’s changed their minds, please share a link – I’d love to read the article!


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

Hmm. I don't think there is any evidence of a possible NW 773 order, or a 773ER order I don't know which you meant specifically. They have already dismissed the possibility of A market 772s or 773s, and the 772ER.

There's also no evidence they'll fly the 333 or 332 transpacific - in fact, their chief of planning specifically said that they were going to be for dedicated transatlantic missions, as their transpacific fleet would require more WBC seats.

Now don't get me wrong - I think its inevitable they'll operate either the 333 or 332 from SEA to KIX, and likely to HNL, since they will have the same quantity if not more WBC seats than the existing DC-10s, and the only other thing they could do is upgrade to a 742.

But we need to refrain from posting any of this kind of data as fact. Like with all NW posts, its merely speculative.

N


User currently offlineFavre From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 595 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

The A330-200's WILL be operating some of the west coast nrt trips--ie sfo-nrt;sea-nrt..


BAE 146 ARJ CV-580 YS-11 SH360 DASH8 SAAB340 EMB 120-135-145-175 DC9/10/30/40/50 MD80/90 DC10 717 727 737 747 757 767 77
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Gigneil,

As you say, "But we need to refrain from posting any of this kind of data as fact. Like with all NW posts, its merely speculative."

At no time has NW dismissed the 777-200ER to replace the 747 Classics. I read a quite lengthy article about NW's A330 decision (it used to be on this forum, but I can't remember the thread title) which went into great detail about the planning involved in replacing the DC-10 fleet. In the article, the direct of Northwest fleet planning (IIRC) stated that the A330 decision was based on replacement of the DC-10 fleet. He then specifically stated that NW would again look at the 777 and the A340 (as well as 'other options') when it came time to replace the 747 Classics.

Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineRhino4ever From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

NWA had the money to hedge fuel for many months ahead. Currently 100% hedged into the summer at approx. $25-$29 dollars a barrel. UAL IS 0% hedged. Recently flew trips and more than one fueler stated UAL had gone 2-4 months without paying their fuel bill. Based on NWA's fuel burn this alone is an additional $540 million a year in losses for UAL. With the larger UAL fuel usage you could almost double that amount. Just another refection on good management vs. no management...

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

Hamlet69-

Its to this article I refer. The Pratt powered 772ER was deemed unacceptable to handle the company's Asian routes.

The article did say they'd be considering the 772LR and 773ER, as well as the A345 and A346 when the time came.

The thread was "Northwest A330 Conversion".

Favre - As much as I agree with you intellectually, can you cite a source for this definitive statement?

N


25 Ual777contrail : bonwa, are you nuts? NWA Isn't making money, maybe you NEED to read the papers. as far as ontime customer complaints and pretty much everything else i
26 Hamlet69 : Gigneil, I apologize. I had forgotten that they found the Pratt -200ER range deficient. Of course, if they are willing to look at the -200LR/-300ER, t
27 Gigneil : CO does fine... ...especially since their birds were never actually certified as -92Bs and therefore have the -90B's thrust and software. CO's EWR-HKG
28 Hamlet69 : "The fact that the A340-500 and -600 don't have an exclusive engine contract also gives me reason to wonder what Pratt might do if Boeing award's the
29 Post contains images Gigneil : Pratt is planning on basing their future on the compressor design in the PW6000 - even their engine offering for the 7E7. Who knows what's to come...
30 Post contains images FlagshipAZ : Hello again folks... All I wanted to know if Northwest could possibly snap-up any of United's 747s. I didn't think it would turned into a hot topic. B
31 IndustrialPate : Gigneil, Have you been reading Favre's posts? Have you read his profile? Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, he works within NW's operation
32 Post contains images Gigneil : Favre- IP does have a point, I didn't look at your profile. Very sorry. Its exciting to hear someone give a bit of confirmation on the A330 across the
33 Post contains images IndustrialPate : Gigneil, FYI: My comment was in reference to a previous posting in which I said Favre was full of crap… You’re getting too technical. My post was
34 ConcordeBoy : CO seems to do fine with -92B powered birds. But Hammy, as stated... doesnt CO actually operate their engines as GE90-90Bs, in contrast to what the [c
35 Dtw/ord fan! : Industrial Pate- I'm curious as to know why NW would want to completely take the 744 out of it's Pacific fleet. They fly those things full on those ro
36 Hamlet69 : Gigneil, "Pratt is planning on basing their future on the compressor design in the PW6000 - even their engine offering for the 7E7." Indeed, but unles
37 ConcordeBoy : If CO is operating them at rerated settings That appears to be the case.... their website specifically says their 772ERs are powered by the GE90-90B
38 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : By the way Hamlet, get my email?
39 IndustrialPate : Dtw/ord fan!, I should clarify: I don't think NW will retire their B744 fleet and I didn't mean to imply such. I was trying to stress a point to Gigne
40 Hamlet69 : ConcordeBoy, No, I didn't. Which address did you send it to? The one on the Yahoo forum is no longer valid (hasn't been for a while, don't know why I
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