Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 17282 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1802 times:
A Ch. 7 filing by United would affect more than just Airbus and Boeing. It would affect all of the aircraft leasing companies (GEACS. ILFC, Pembroke, Bavaria, SALE, and many others), because the market value of many of their aircraft in their portfolio will have lower due to a large number of those types entering the market at one time. There will be a glut of Airbus narrowbodies (A319/320), and a large number of Boeing types (both narrow and widebody) on the open market. This will be very much like the situation was in the early 90s when there were large numbers Boeing and MDD a/c after the collapses of Eastern, Pan Am, and Midway.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1738 times:
UA is Airbus largest customer and the leading operator of 777s. If UA collapses, I could see Boeing and Airbus buying up parked (older 737s, 757/767s, MD-80s, F100s) aircraft from the desert to chop them up. As strange as that may sound, that may be the only way these companies can keep the market from collapsing following the release of 600+ late model aircraft onto the market.
Scottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6440 posts, RR: 33 Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1665 times:
Generally late-model (especially when applied to cars) means relatively new (as in the latest model).
I could certainly see United's 737-300 and -500 fleets being picked up by WN and/or CO for the short to medium term if the lease rates were right, especially if either were to attempt to fill the vacuum created by a hypothetical UAL liquidation (i.e. CO at DEN, more WN at LAX or back at SFO, etc.). United's PW-powered 757's would be a good fit for Delta, especially if Song is successful. If CO, DL, AA, or NW (or some permutation) were to take over the LHR or AA), Japan">NRT routes, I imagine that some of the 767's and 777's would be needed (and possibly some 747-400's in the case of NW). I don't know if I see B6 taking UA's A320's though I can see at least some of them (or the A319's) ending up at HP, NW, F9, or US.
Trintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1530 times:
"Late", when referred to news or models of cars, planes and the like, does indeed refer to new or recent (eg latest model). A UA collapse would indeed create considerable havoc in the aircraft market given the size of its young fleet of planes. Then again, some smaller operators may get the chance to buy newer jets and thus take advantage of the lower prices - of course that would not bode well for the older planes in the desert. Ironically, though, the depreciation of the prices for the older birds may yet make them viable to other carriers.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1510 times:
I agree with you Trintocan. That is why I could see perfectly good airplanes from the desert being chopped up. During the Great Depression, the US government destroyed plenty of milk and food so that prices would recover thus putting farmers back in business.
I don't know if 'interesting' is the word I would use to describe the situation if United actually does fold. I think ruinous might be more apropos.
Speedport From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 284 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1501 times:
Forgot about chickens, how about doing something to promote jobs.
From the AP:
"Bush believes the industry must restructure itself and is willing to let market forces determine which airlines will survive, the official said Tuesday, noting that market forces will cause the airline industry to restructure through bankruptcy proceedings."
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1497 times:
As much as I love airlines particularly United Airlines, I can think of few worse uses of taxpayer money than propping up failing air carriers. It will only hamper the recovery of 'healthier' carriers and will injure sensibly organized companies like Southwest and Jetblue.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10050 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1372 times:
A collapse of UA will be a serious blow especially especially for the 777 program.
Airlines like PIA will go mad not to have waited a few months with their decision to aquire Triple Sevens.
Despite the bleak market outlook I can see that the majority of the 744s will be placed somewhere else though quite soon, 7 are going to Thai already, some might be used by Boeing to start the F-conversion program, NWA might pick up some to take over the Pacific routes.
Godbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1344 times:
Where is 'here'? Late model means almost new in all parts of the U.S.
Sorry dude, but not ment to offend you but I am not in the US of A but it does also apply to me. You gotta think where all those American widebodies go when they have fuel for 8+ hours of flight.
The capacity of UA is roughly what needs to be taken out of the market (overcapacity) so if they go under I see big problems since the other airlines won't be able to pick up all of their planes and anyways they all have their own problems to deal with.
For sure many airlines would want to have lower leasing rates on their fleets.
I just hope that won't happen.