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China Grants 5th Freedom Rights For The First Time  
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Posted (11 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 6957 times:

China has granted Singapore Airlines Cargo fifth freedom rights - the first time it has done so for a foreign airline.

Singapore Airlines Cargo will operate flights from Singapore to Xiamen to Nanjing to Chicago.

"This will be the first time the Chinese mainland has granted fifth freedom rights to a foreign air carrier," Ma Songwei of the General Administration of Civil Aviation of China said.

"It is necessary to grant fifth freedom rights to foreign air carriers if China wants to enhance its competitive advantage as a regional hub," he said.

More information at the AFP / Yahoo website

Information was gathered from the above hyperlinked webpage. Full information can be viewed by clicking the above hyperlinked webpage. nformation was rephrased and not copied and pasted unlike others with the exception of quotes.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 952 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6931 times:

Don't UA and NW enjoy fifth freedom rights between China and Tokyo Narita, and have for some time now?
Others like Iran Air have similar rights btwn Beijing and Narita, while Ethiopian btwn Beijing and Mumbai?



User currently offlineN754pr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6919 times:

Oh look and its given to SQ...........

User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6898 times:

I especially like this part:

nformation was rephrased and not copied and pasted unlike others with the exception of quotes.

No matter how you phrase or reword it, its still plaguarism  Laugh out loud


User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6847 times:

If they could grant fifth freedom rights for passenger flights it would be good.

It could be argued that SQ doesn't "deserve" to be as big as it is to the USA and the only reason it is, is cos of the fifth freedom rights, which in this case are to SQ's advantage since it's been (so far) impossible to get to continental USA without an intermediate stop, from Singapore.

How would a tiny country of 4 million people, which is as far from the USA one could get, support 45 wide-bodied aircraft services to the USA a week?

If they had to depend on SIN-USA traffic alone, I doubt they'd see half the number of (very lucky and privileged, of course, right Singapore_Air?? ) passengers they carry to the USA.

Singapore_Air, are you throwing a gala ball in honour of SIA, as a reuslt?? Don't forget to invite us!

Cheers.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6735 times:

N754PR, if you have nothing useful to say then don't say it and hence make me write a rebuttal.


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

Singapore Airlines Cargo Limited has wanted to start the flights from Singapore to Xiamen to Nanjing to Chicago on 1 April 2003. However, because of the Iraq war, this has been put back to 22 May 2003.

Notably, Singapore and China have signed a new air services agreement in late 2002, potentially allowing Singapore Airlines Group to fly in and out of more cities in China - using and applying for more fifth freedom rights.

More information at the Channel News Asia website

Information was gathered from the above hyperlinked webpage. Full information can be viewed by clicking the above hyperlinked webpage. nformation was rephrased and not copied and pasted unlike others with the exception of quotes.


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6697 times:

Airpearl,

In the case of UA and NW, it is Japan that has granted the US fifth freedom and not China.


User currently offlineEx_SQer From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1436 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6665 times:

N79969:

Doesn't an airline need fifth freedom rights from both countries in question before it can enjoy those rights? IN the case of UA and NW, China and Japan must have given them those rights...


User currently offlineDebn From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 89 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6614 times:

Talking about 5th freedom, what are the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th freedoms?

User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6599 times:

Both countries need to agree to offer an airline 5th freedom rights. For example, SQ wants to fly from LHR to the USA (probably JFK). The US Gov't has OK'd the request whilst the UK Gov't has not. This makes it a no-go.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6581 times:

Ex-Sq'er

I do not think China has granted US carriers fifth freedom rights. I don't think UA and NW can sell travel to Japan from China though the flights may stop there. I think passengers originating in China must be traveling to the US to the best of my knowledge. Frankly, I am not 100% sure about what NWA and UA can sell to Chinese pax and shippers. But given the hype surrounding the latest announcement, I think I am correct.

This is a good basic explanation of the Chicago Convention.

http://home1.gte.net/tpeach/free.html


User currently offlineBBD From Australia, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6573 times:

First Freedom.
The right to fly from a home country over another country (A) en-route to another (B) without landing. Also called the transit freedom.
Second Freedom.
The right for a flight from a home country to land in another country (A) for purposes other than carrying passengers, such as refuelling, maintenance or emergencies. The final destination is country B.
Third Freedom.
The right to carry passengers from a home country to another country (A) for purpose of commercial services.
Fourth Freedom.
The right to fly from another country (A) to an home country for purpose of commercial services.
Fifth Freedom.
This freedom enables airlines to carry passengers from a home country to another intermediate country (A), and then fly on to third country (B) with the right to pick passengers in the intermediate country. Also referred to as "beyond right". This freedom divided into two categories: Intermediate Fifth Freedom Type is the right to carry from the third country to second country. Beyond Fifth Freedom Type is the right to carries from second country to the third country.
Sixth Freedom.
It refers to the right to carry passengers between two countries (A and B) through an airport in the home country. With the hubbing function of most air transport networks, this freedom has become more common, notably in Europe (London, Amsterdam).
Seventh Freedom.
Covers the right to operate a passenger services between two countries (A and B) outside the home country.
Eighth Freedom.
Also referred to as "cabotage" privileges. It involves the right to move passengers on a route from a home country to a destination country (A) that uses more than one stop along which passengers may be loaded and unloaded.
Ninth Freedom.
Also referred to as "full cabotage" or "open-skies" privileges. It involves the right of a home country to move passengers within another country (A).


User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

Uhm,

China has granted 5th freedom rights many times in the past.

E.G TPE-OSA for CX, SQ.

TPE-LAX for MH, SQ



User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6492 times:

Lufti,

The examples you provided are between Taiwan ROC and other countries. This is about China PRC.

You're not trying to stir up the "Taiwan is part of China" debate are you?


User currently offline9V-SPK From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6470 times:

People seems to have forgotten that the rights SQ gained is WITHIN China, Xiamen to Nanjing, which is the 1st time a foreign airline can fly with traffic rights (Cargo for this case) WITHIN China. Nothing to do with Japan, Nothing to do with Taiwan, just China.

Best Regards


User currently offlineAirpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 952 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6462 times:


9V-SPK,
If that's what SQ got, then it WOULD be new - and rights gained btwn Xiamen and Nanjing are cabotage. China has offered 5th freedom rights for other airlines for some time.



User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6422 times:

Airpearl and SPK,

"This will be the first time the Chinese mainland has granted fifth freedom rights to a foreign air carrier," General Administration of Civil Aviation of China spokesman Ma Songwei was quoted as saying."

That's straight from the article. China has not granted fifth freedom rights in the past.

Here is what SQ can do now:

1. Carry cargo from SIN to both Xiamen and Nanjing
2. Carry cargo from ORD to both Xiamen and Nanjing
3. Carry cargo from Xiamen and Nanjing to ORD and SIN

These are all 5th freedom rights

They cannot:

1. Carry cargo from Xiamen to Nanjing
2. Carry cargo from Nanjing to Xiamen

This is cabotage.




User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6416 times:

China has not granted US carriers 5th freedom rights unless you count Hong Kong.

User currently offlineAirpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 952 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6388 times:


N79969,
Well, your information must be better than mine... but how would you explain that both UA and NW seem to be willing to sell you a ticket PEK-NRT on their websites if 5th freedom rights had not been granted?


User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6361 times:

5th freedom is granted by Japan.

5th freedom means you are allowed to carry passengers from one foriegn country to another foreign country, and back to the originating foreign country, and vice versa. However, the flight still must originate in the home country, which is why the China flights through NRT are continuations of US-NRT flights; 5th freedom allows Japanese and Chinese nationals to purchase tickets solely on the 'continuing legs'.

Verbatim, from my textbook:
"the right of the airline of one country to pick up traffic in the territory of another country and fly that traffic to yet another country"

China has granted US and NW 3rd and 4th freedoms, which allow "the right of the airline of one country to carry traffic from its homeland to the territory of another country", and vice versa.


User currently offline9V-SPK From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6324 times:

Airpearl,

I made it very very clear already that SQ has gained rights to fly within these 2 Chinese cities located in the PRC, People's Republic Of China. It IS the first time ever that an foreign airline can fly from one destination to another WITHIN China.

China has offered 5th freedom rights for other airlines for some time? Pardon my ignorance but where? Mind pointing it out?

B.T.W Hong Kong and China have 2 different authorities that handle their own aviation manners. So even HKG grants 5th freedom rights to any other airline it's nothing to do with China.
Best Regards



User currently offlineAirpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 952 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6324 times:

UA744Flagship,

Interesting perspective. If China has granted only 3rd and 4th freedom rights ("the right of the airline of one country to carry traffic from its homeland to the territory of another country") to UA and NW, doesn't it mean they would not enjoy rights to carry pax travelling solely on PEK-NRT-PEK sectors.
Also if, as you say, 5th freedom rights were granted only by Japan, a change of routing by a US carrier from the current US-NRT-PEK to US-PEK-NRT would result in it losing the right to carry pax on the NRT-PEK and v.v. segment of their flights?



User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

"I made it very very clear already that SQ has gained rights to fly within these 2 Chinese cities located in the PRC, People's Republic Of China. It IS the first time ever that an foreign airline can fly from one destination to another WITHIN China."

They can take off and land but they cannot pick up and drop off traffic between the two cities.

UA744Flagship is correct. China is the origin/destination of the flights. Those UA/NW flights are not continuing to a 3rd country destination. They are transiting in Japan which is slightly different.


User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

I didn't want to participate in this thread, but there is too much wrong information is this thread.

UA and NW's fifth freedom has to be granted by both Japan and China. The commonly used term--"beyond rights"--is a misnomer. A less confusing description of the fifth freedom is the right to carry revenue payload between two foreign nations on a flight originates or terminates in the nation the airline/aircraft is registered in. If the flight does not terminate or originate in the nation the airline/aircraft is registered in, then it's the seventh freedom. For example, FedEx and UPS use the seventh freedom extensively from their Philippine bases. The third and fourth freedoms have direction assoicated with them, but that is not the case for the other promulgated and derived freedoms.

IMO, the Chinese authority who said this was the first time China granted fifth freedom was incorrect. But I believe this is the first time an all-cargo flight is given fifth freedom rights to and from China. This is also the first time fifth freedom rights are granted to destinations outside of Asia from China.

One more thing, SQ has not been given the rights to carry cargo between Nanjing and Xiamen.


25 Post contains links Singapore_Air : "I think it's significant," said John Casey of DBS Vickers. He said that SIA's revenues would increase 2% and would boost profits between 4 to 5% whic
26 N79969 : Well, I stand corrected. I guess the US grants more fifth-freedom than I had ever realized.
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