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Breaking NEWS: AMR F/As Reject Concessions  
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

FOX News is reporting that the Association of Professional Flight Attendants has narrowly voted down a concessions package, which will in all likelihood send AMR into Chapter 11.

They've reported that APFA leadership is meeting with AA leadership to try to quickly organize a second vote in an effort to try to pass a concessions package and keep the company out of bankruptcy.

We better hope they can do that, because if AA goes bankrupt, the rest of the industry is in a lot of trouble.


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030415/airlines_american_9.html

DALLAS (Reuters) - Flight attendants at American Airlines on Tuesday voted against a concession agreement, paving the way for an imminent bankruptcy filing by the world's largest carrier, a local news radio station reported.
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The airline has said that if its three major union groups do not ratify deals that will help save the carrier $1.8 billion a year in labor costs, American, a division of AMR Corp. (NYSE:AMR - News), would be forced to file for bankruptcy.

News radio station KRLD reported that the union had narrowly rejected the deal and was in talks with the airline to see if they could quickly poll their members again. The two other major unions at American had approved concession deals earlier in the day.

The Association of Professional Flight Attendants voted against a deal that would cut annual pay and benefits for flight attendants collectively by $340 million.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineN777UA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4212 times:

This will not fare well for Chicago, cause if AA files, then 85% of Chicago O'Hare airport will be in bankruptcy!!

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4184 times:

If I were UA, I would be scared. Guess who is getting out of paying a lot of leases and interest payments ? Actually now Delta, NWA, and CO will have compounded problems as well. If I were an AA employee, I would also be very, very concerned.

I hope they reconsider and vote again.


User currently offlineKUGN From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

Mixed bag of news for Chicago O'Hare airport today - Sen. Peter Fitzgerald announcing that he will not seek the reelection, then news of AA on the brinks of bankrupcy. They lost the opposition to the expansion, but financiers as well.



User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

AMR halted after attendants reject cuts
Pilots, mechanics earlier approved labor concessions
By August Cole & Jennifer Waters, CBS.MarketWatch.com
Last Update: 3:35 PM ET April 15, 2003


NEW YORK (CBS.MW) -- American Airlines flight attendants have reportedly voted to reject labor concessions, paving the way for the bankruptcy of the industry's largest airline.

NEWS FOR AMR
AMR halted after attendants reject cuts
Stocks jostle near flat line in earnings tug-of-war

The pilots union and mechanics union earlier approved historic labor concessions to help the No. 1 carrier stave off bankruptcy. American had said that just one union voting against the cuts would bring about a bankruptcy filing, possibly as soon as Tuesday.

AMR Corp. shares (AMR: news, chart, profile) were halted for trading as of 3:06 p.m. ET. Shares, which had been the most active on the New York Stock Exchange, last traded at $3.40, up 32 cents, or 10 percent.

APFA: Reject concessions

The Association of Professional Flight Attendants have rejected labor concessions, according to the Wall Street Journal, in a last-minute vote. The vote was narrowly rejected, the paper said.

A recorded message indicates the leadership of the union will hold a conference call to discuss the vote results.

On Monday, American's flight attendants asked for more time to consider the rank-and-file impact of the cost reductions, according to the union's Web site. American wants about $340 million in concessions from the union members.

Union leaders have already suggested that members approve the cost cuts because it's expected that the airlines lenders would impose much harsher conditions in the event of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Pilots: OK

The Allied Pilots Association said 69 percent of its membership voted to approve the new contract. About 95 percent of eligible pilots voted, the union said. The airline was looking for $660 million in savings from the group.

"Clearly, the gut-wrenching decision our pilots have had to make will have a major impact on their lives in terms of additional furloughs, pay cuts and retirement savings," said APA President John Darrah.

TWU: OK

Transport Workers Union members voted to approve labor concessions with American Airlines, the second union to announce Tuesday that its membership accepted new terms to keep the carrier out of bankruptcy.

According to the union's Web site, 53 percent of the members approved the new concessions. The TWU, whose members work as mechanics, technicians and in other roles, had been asked by the airline to approve considerable cuts of more than $600 million.

In total, AMR executives have said they want to save a total of $4 billion. $1.8 billion was to come from the carrier's workers, including ticketing agents and management.

"The bloodletting here is not just in labor, it's the entire system. Being a supplier to an airline today is not much more fun than being an employee," said Bill Alderman, president of aerospace investment bank Alderman and Co.

In comparison with low-cost operator Southwest Airlines, AMR's cost per available seat-mile is about 46 percent higher, according to data from Alderman and Co.

Playing in part off the activity in AMR's shares, the Amex Airline Index (XAL: news, chart, profile) was last up 5.5 percent. See full story.

August Cole is spot news editor at CBS.MarketWatch.com in Chicago
Jennifer Waters is the Chicago bureau chief for CBS.MarketWatch.com.
--------------------------------------------------
Hopefully a re vote will be approved for the APFA, as this narrowly missed approval. It will be approved the 2nd time around, staving off a Ch. 11 filing at AA.

If they restructure under the shelter of the Bankruptcy Court, all other carriers should be very aware, as AA will have lower costs, and will come out of bankruptcy in Fall to end 2003, lean, mean, and ready to expand in all markets, hiring back all those who were furloughed. This may be a good thing in the long run? Hope so. Bf





User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

Another airline that has been f*cked over by a union. I hope all the F/A's enjoy being out of work.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

This just seems insane. They will now file, and the FA's will be forced to take bigger cuts than they just rejected.

Jeremy


User currently offlineDrdivo From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4083 times:

I believe that, if AA/AMR files, and then works to modify aircraft leases using bankruptcy rules, NW/CO/DL have no choice but to approach their lessors with demands that their own aircraft financing terms be modified to meet the new market.

This would then shift some of the burden of the current bloodbath to the aircraft lessors.

To remain competitive, in the event of an AA/AMR bankruptcy, the other majors will have to gain modification of their financing terms. If the lessors refuse to play ball, the other major carriers may go through Chapter 11 just so as to force lease modifications on them, just as Hawaiian did a few weeks back.

Has anyone noted that we have three airlines that are in or recently out of bankruptcy, plus AA/AMR? If/when AA/AMR files, it will put half of the total number, and well more than 60% of the capacity through Chapter 11 in the past year, plus the small carriers that didn't make it - Vanguard and National being among them.

Things have never been this rough for the airline industry.



Respectfully - the Divo
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4058 times:

NW/CO/DL have no choice but to approach their lessors with demands that their own aircraft financing terms be modified to meet the new market.
*************

While I cant speak for Delta or Northwest, Continental has already started renegiotiating these.


User currently offlineBraniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4042 times:

Northwest said in a special newsletter to employees a while back that everytime an airline renegotiates deals with a vendor, NW will demand the same deal. I'm sure they are already in negotiations. NW is a well run airline.


Climbing
User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

Poor planning, saving, and awarding very lucrative contracts in good times in a very historically cyclical industry.

Labor, does not get all the blame for their "asking" and "receiving" the lucrative contracts. Both sides share in the burden of poor planning, in efficient lease terms, and while the party rolled in the late '90's to 2000, no one kept an eye out on risk for the future. Market share and ego's played too large a part in this out come.

This event hopefully, will bring a new focus on fiscal conservation, responsibility, and may open the doors to new ways of operating an airlines cash flow, managing assets, and spending habits. Learning, and moving forward, with accountability will improve this industry in the long run.

CASM (cost per available seat mile) is more important now, then ever before.

2cents Bf



User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3996 times:

you guys need to stop fighting, this is exactly what all you tossers did when UAL filed.

you'll get through it, just because the mouse has his leg in the trap doesnt mean you have to bite it off just yet.

only words of advice is stick together, and you AA people are now going to have to deal with all these people who think they can solve the airlines problems from behind their PC's.


ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineChautauquasaab From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3949 times:

Well said UAL 777 Contrail!
Godspeed AA!


User currently offlineKevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

This is exactly what I worried would happen. The pilots and ground workers would ratify their TA's and we wouldn't. Now we look like the jerks. I wish they'd say how many of us voted yes. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I didn't agree with it, but the membership made this decision and now we'll all have to live with it. Oh well, I'm off to SJU. Last trip? Hope not. See ya.

PS: Did I mention this sucks?



"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

When the announcement came out the APFA board was meeting to 'discuss the vote' after voting had ended I had a sneaking suspicion that it had failed, it was close, and everyone, the company included, was scrambling to find a way out. The fact that AA hasn't yet filed, despite having everything in line to do so indicates that there may be at least a chance for a re-vote.

If the union can figure out a way to do it, and the company agrees, hopefully y'all will get another chance. Either way, good luck to everyone involved. Its going to be a rough ride.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3882 times:

I'll bet American is actually very happy about this. There have been so many reports about how American may not have asked for enough cuts between the operating losses due to the economy, coupled with Iraq and now SARS. It works out well for AA so they won't have to piss anyone off even more down the road if they were to ask for deeper cuts to cover their asses.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineM717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

B757300,

I won't tell you to mind your own business, but I will say you are WAY out of touch with reality if you think that AA is just another airline that was f*cked over by a union. All the "legacy" carriers have problems that go much deeper than union contracts.

I wonder why you weren't singing this same song duing the record profit years of the mid to late 90s? Those same unions had those same contracts then. What do you supposed happened? Perhaps you picked a bad time to invest in AMR and you're looking for a scapegoat? It's always easiest to point the finger at others, isn't it?


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

One has to wonder...at what point will the bankruptcy courts say "Enough" and force one of the majors into liquidation?

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

While the plan was rejected, still, it's close. It may well go through.

The reality is that the new contracts have a good premise at heart -- for everyone to be more tied to the performance of the company. When things are bad, everyone suffers, and when things are good, everyone will benefit. The various unions are just making sure that things are balanced so that when things DO get better, union members get the opportunity to join in.

Steve


User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2534 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

I commend the FA's for voting down this terrible contract. Too bad the Pilots and Ground Workers didn't do the same. Carty is trying to make the work force carry the entire burden for the next SIX years. Why are these contracts soo long to fix a short term problem. Within two years travel may be back and the company making money. Do you think these contracts will be changed then? So make them a two year deal. If things haven't improved extend them.

Also how many cuts are comming out of management? So far all I've heard is Carty is forgoing his bonus and a pay cut. Have creditors and suppliers been included in the saving of AMR? How about fixing the revenue side of the equation? The employees should not be the only ones held at gun point.


User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

The APFA is re voting or re counting the vote on the AMR contract concessions, they have until 17:00 CT 16APR2003, to get the results in. It looks like it will pass now, as the vote was so close. This just reported on local ABC news affiliate Channel 8, DFW / KDFW), USA - Texas">DFW.

So it is not over 'till its over, so there is still a chance that things could change for the better/or worse, depending upon if you are in finance, or working the ramp.

No Ch. 11 filing yet. The APFA still has time to approve the new contract. Now, this may spell more loses for AA (short term,) as it will be harder to renegotiate asset and service leases out side of bankruptcy protection.

Cross your fingers, the APFA will do the right thing, and approve the concession contract.

The stock will rise again, tomorrow. The sun will rise, and AA will fly a full schedule. See below:
------------------------------------------------

Associated Press
American Flight Attendants Extend Voting

Tuesday April 15, 4:50 pm ET
By Angela K. Brown, Associated Press Writer
American Airlines Flight Attendants Given One More Day to Vote on Labor Concessions

FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) -- American Airlines flight attendants were given one more day to vote on whether to accept labor concessions the airline says it needs to avoid bankruptcy, a labor leader said.
The reprieve came after a union official said the flight attendants were on the verge of narrowly rejecting $340 million in wage cuts and other concessions.

The flight attendants' vote was hanging in the balance after unions representing pilots and ground workers said Tuesday that they had approved their portion of the proposed $1.8 billion cuts.

The flight attendants union had complained Monday that some members were having trouble casting votes by phone and the Internet and sought an extension.
_______________________________________________




[Edited 2003-04-15 23:02:04]

User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Why are these contracts soo long to fix a short term problem
*************************************

I dont think this is a short term problem, the days of old are long gone now. The industry needs restructured completely, and this is why most of the carriers are making moves to do so. I think passenger numbers will return, but the fares of old are gone


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3751 times:

One word for the AMR F/A's

Idiots.

Have fun in the unemployment lines. The old EA workers can teach you the ropes, I'm sure.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

I have a vested interest in AMR so please think before you open your trap.

Yes, B757300's vested interest is that, being the GOP yes-man on here, that workers make as little as possible so that he can reap huge dividends on his stock portfolio.  Wink/being sarcastic


25 Drdivo : I sent an email to a friend of mine here who used to work in HR/Compensation for one of the majors before moving on to more stable industries (petroch
26 777d : I agree this is a issue where the majors must restructure themselves to survive. The airline industry has changed with the internet, LCC and etc. The
27 DIA : A lot of the FAs voted a week ago. Since then, after the FA's got a sweetened deal, many had changed their minds, but could not go back and change the
28 Coronado : DL/CO/NW are sure to follow with a gut wrenching round of wage cuts and lay-offs. NWA mechanics are up in arms over plans to lay off another 900 mecha
29 Dalmd88 : Coronado mentioned the mechanic cuts at NWA. NWA looks like it has decided to get out of the business of maintaning airplanes. With cuts this deep man
30 Coronado : Dalmd88-- you are absolutely right--these jobs will not come back. Living in Eagan MN several of my kids class mates are mechanics at NW. It will hurt
31 Post contains links DIA : Just the latest on the vote tomorrow: http://www.msnbc.com/news/900475.asp?0cv=CB10&cp1=1 DIA
32 DeltAirlines : This could push AA over the edge significantly here. I remember reading that AA's debt/assets ratio is almost 1:1, which does not bode well in any sit
33 Post contains images Lowfareair : >>Living in Eagan MN several of my kids class mates are mechanics at NW
34 Coronado : Pardon the skipped words ''kids class mates parents are mechanics'' OOPS Maybe using kids as mechanics will be discussed in the next round in 2004 as
35 Milemaster : I just love it.. Here in the DFW area we're enjoying a 9%(some estimates are significantly higher) unemployment rate.. Looks like it's going to jump a
36 Mirrodie : Another airline that has been f*cked over by a union. I hope all the F/A's enjoy being out of work. While this isn't the entire cause, it is another b
37 Northwest_guy : I can't understand why they (the unions) would do that when their company is doing so bad right now. Now doesn't seem to be the best time to be picky.
38 AA717driver : Northwest guy--They did it because Carty has done nothing but lie cheat and steal since he set foot in the CEO's chair. AMR is getting the respect and
39 Alexchao : I wouldn't be surprised if AA goes bankrupt because of one union just like United. However, I'd be very sad to see AA enter bankruptcy. But if they ca
40 B727-200 : And again, an FA union puts its own short-term glory against potential long-term security and benefits. A similar thing happened at Ansett, and it wa
41 Flashmeister : Dalmd88 said: Why are these contracts soo long to fix a short term problem. This is NOT a short-term problem by any means. It's much deeper than that.
42 Wannabe : I watched as my industry (Telecom) imploded 3 years ago, and everyone on that ship thought that it couldn't happen to them. "Solid" companies such as
43 BeltwayBandit : Unfortunately, the travel "product" has become generic, and the internet has helped to make it so. Price is the predominant differentiation. (Major ex
44 Jcs17 : Full pay till the last day! Fucking dolts. Do these idiots ever stop to think that if they dont give concessions to the airline, they will not be earn
45 KUGN : Seems like they don't. Sabena part 3.
46 N777UA : Well, if they do file, it will be a major slap in the face to employees...just like it was when United filed in December.
47 Hole_courtney : JCS17, life isn't all about money. a lot of what these unions are fighting for is workers' dignity. and American has shown in the past years that it g
48 AA767400 : Well, now all you guys can shut the F*$# UP! Because the vote has now gone to yes. So, if AA does still file for chapter 11, or 7, or whatever. You st
49 Post contains images OzarkD9S : WELL PUT AA767400
50 GD727 : I'm glad the FAs came to their senses and voted yes. I mean no disrespect towards the FAs, but I do agree with JCS17 that it is better to have a littl
51 Mirrodie : well, since this is no longer breaking news, I am locking this thread. Perhaps we will see a thread on the breaking news as of now. rgds, mirrodie
52 Jmc1975 : A new thread was just started.
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