Setjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1095 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5505 times:
Another little known fact after 9/11:
Since March 2003 US Customs has full access to ALL data transformed by the Amadeus reservation system, which is used by most major European carriers (Lufthansa, Air France,...). In the last three weeks alone Amadeus was accessed 1,500,000 times by the agency.
This means that they not only get your name, address, credit card number, passport number, frequent flyer status for your trip to the United States, but all data for ALL flights booked through Amadeus, regardless whether you are traveling from Paris to Lyon or from Munich to Cairo.
By the way, this information is not only available to the FBI but to all US law enforcement agencies.
Source: German Television (ZDF) Frontal21 news magazine.
ZSSNC From Germany, joined Feb 2003, 428 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5393 times:
European carriers are required to give out all PNR data to US cutoms as per a obligation of an EU commission. However, this does only apply for flights to the US (i.e. if you do not have a US airport in your PNR your PNR data will not be released to US customs). Airlines are required to inform their passengers of that process. If passengers do not agree that their data is transferred to US customs they may not fly to the US. Amadeus along with some airlines (e.g. LH) are monitoring the access of US law enforcement agencies to the PNR data. In addition to that the European Parliament seeks to convince the commission to suspend the regulation and a meeting between the EU and the US in June is supposed to clarify the situation.
Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
Sabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5378 times:
I saw the report a few minutes ago on TV (ZDF). It is unbelievable that the US customs has access to all Amadeus data (also for flight that do not originate or land in the USA) and even more unbelievable is that they have also access to your credit card number.
On an other program I saw an interview with an US customs employee, he said something like: "You must live with it when you are coming to the USA, it is the same like the USSR did in former times".
Great, this guy compares the tactics of the former USSR with the current tactics of the USA! This country is slowly becoming a police state, they watch every of your step.
Sabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5326 times:
Sorry, I forgot: You are automatically on the list of the "suspicious guys" when you order an inflight meal that do not consists pork meat because they think you are a Muslim.
Does that mean that the US customs will check me more intensive just because I don`t like pork meat? Sorry but I think it is better to spend your vacation in an other country when I only think about the queues in front of the immigration desks after an 11 hour flight.
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 54 Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5264 times:
The land of the FREE !!!!!
Yeah OK, they are so full of $h!t, but it is quite amusing that it's almost harder to get into the US now than it was into the USSR !!!.
Europe has been living with the terrorist threat for years (some of it funded by the US incidently), but we don't crap our pants and demand to know every little thing about every person entering the EU. They get attacked once and thats it. Everyone is now a suspect and has to suffer.
I got about 5 more trips planned to the US, then they can stick it where the sun don't shine.
I can't be bothered with all their crap each time I enter and being spoken to like a criminal by law enforcement agencies, and I'm white European. Makes me wonder what it's like for other races if it's that bad for me.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
Trey From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 250 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5248 times:
If the securtiy probelm bothers you then don't come. No one is making you. I play hell everytime I come back to the UK from the USA (I live here now) and vice versa and I am a USA citizen. Doesn't bother me a bit. I find some of it silly, but I find the same here at LHR on arrival. Visiting a foreign country regardless of where or when is a privildge and not a right, so keep that in mind.
TZSFO From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 202 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5202 times:
What's the big deal??? Customs doesn't actually have "access" to the information...Meaning that they can't just access the GDS at will...The information has to be sent to them by the carrier. A lot of countries do this...When our SFO-CUN flight departs we have to transmit the PNR data to Mexican customs...If the data isn't transmitted and received by Mexican Customs our AC could be refused landing rights....Same for the US. I don't see the big deal - This is just another way for countries to protect themselves and has been going on long before 9/11. Airlines are not the only ones required to provide the manifests either...Cruise ships and other modes of transportation are required to send them as well...
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
OO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5171 times:
Traveling to the US is getting really out of question for me, I have really enough of all the random checks and immigration questions. But last week, I had even a worst experience than the US....while flying in/out New-Delhi!
Kappa13 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 163 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5168 times:
I don't see what the big deal is. I don't have anything to hide. I was surprise though when I was traveling back to Vermont from Canada and the Customs lady started talking to me about being a student pilot. She had that information on her computer. No it wasn't the conversation about being a terrorist but what's it like and that kind of stuff.. But it probably depends on the person you get. But anyway, as long as they aren't constantly calling my house or stuff like that I don't see a problem having information about me. Hell I would even give them information if that would help.
Speedbirdyvr From Canada, joined Mar 2003, 168 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5158 times:
Leezyjet is right. Europe has been living with the terrorist threat for years, but they don't scrutinize people this way. It just shows you how effective and better-trained law enforcement officials are in other countries without having to invade people's privacy. I think it's sad that it has come down to this because it affects trade and the flow of businessmen and women, even those with legitimate reasons. Globalization is the reason why the US is an economic and military powerhouse, but with the current isolationist policy of the Bush administration, one has to wonder whether this spells the end for US might, much like the collapse of the British, Roman and other empires over the course of history.
TZSFO From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 202 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5128 times:
Racko - While I can't read German and don't have a clue what the article says above....I am guessing it says that US Customs can "access" all information on the GDSs. I think that is media over-reaction...US customs can only access what the airlines send...only that...not the entire system...
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
Setjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1095 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5017 times:
"If the security problem bothers you then don't come. No one is making you."
The thing is: Regardless whether you are flying from Europe to the US or from Europe to Europe, the DO have access to ALL saved information. So even if I don't want to come to the land of the free and brave, I have no alternative but to hand out all my details to some other countries law enforcement agencies.
I have no problem with "the war on terrorism", living in New York I should see the need for this. But forcing foreign carriers to let them access their reservation system for ALL bookings goes a too far...
747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4892 times:
I honestly DON'T see what the problem with this is....
the only people that have a problem are the paranoid and those that have something to hide. If you use the internet for shopping banking etc, all that is privy to hackers and screwballs, so privacy is nil there. And No, I don't think someone should be able to come here if they have let's say spent months in the Bekka Valley or other places on the verboten list...Itt would have been nice if we more effectively "traced" Atta for instance....