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US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...  
User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1102 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6026 times:

Another little known fact after 9/11:

Since March 2003 US Customs has full access to ALL data transformed by the Amadeus reservation system, which is used by most major European carriers (Lufthansa, Air France,...). In the last three weeks alone Amadeus was accessed 1,500,000 times by the agency.

This means that they not only get your name, address, credit card number, passport number, frequent flyer status for your trip to the United States, but all data for ALL flights booked through Amadeus, regardless whether you are traveling from Paris to Lyon or from Munich to Cairo.

By the way, this information is not only available to the FBI but to all US law enforcement agencies.

Source: German Television (ZDF) Frontal21 news magazine.
2003-04-15

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/inhalt/15/0,1872,2041199,00.html
Sorry, only in German!


69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5962 times:

Not only Amadeus but access to all Global Distribution Systems(GDS,) Worldspan, Sabre and Apollo/Galileo. As well as Arinc and SITA data.

User currently offlineZSSNC From Germany, joined Feb 2003, 428 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

Setjet,

European carriers are required to give out all PNR data to US cutoms as per a obligation of an EU commission. However, this does only apply for flights to the US (i.e. if you do not have a US airport in your PNR your PNR data will not be released to US customs). Airlines are required to inform their passengers of that process. If passengers do not agree that their data is transferred to US customs they may not fly to the US. Amadeus along with some airlines (e.g. LH) are monitoring the access of US law enforcement agencies to the PNR data. In addition to that the European Parliament seeks to convince the commission to suspend the regulation and a meeting between the EU and the US in June is supposed to clarify the situation.

ZSSNC



Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

Setjet,

I saw the report a few minutes ago on TV (ZDF). It is unbelievable that the US customs has access to all Amadeus data (also for flight that do not originate or land in the USA) and even more unbelievable is that they have also access to your credit card number.

On an other program I saw an interview with an US customs employee, he said something like: "You must live with it when you are coming to the USA, it is the same like the USSR did in former times".

Great, this guy compares the tactics of the former USSR with the current tactics of the USA! This country is slowly becoming a police state, they watch every of your step.

Patrick


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5847 times:

Sorry, I forgot: You are automatically on the list of the "suspicious guys" when you order an inflight meal that do not consists pork meat because they think you are a Muslim.

Does that mean that the US customs will check me more intensive just because I don`t like pork meat? Sorry but I think it is better to spend your vacation in an other country when I only think about the queues in front of the immigration desks after an 11 hour flight.

Patrick


User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

The land of the FREE !!!!!

Yeah OK, they are so full of $h!t, but it is quite amusing that it's almost harder to get into the US now than it was into the USSR !!!.  Nuts

Europe has been living with the terrorist threat for years (some of it funded by the US incidently), but we don't crap our pants and demand to know every little thing about every person entering the EU. They get attacked once and thats it. Everyone is now a suspect and has to suffer.

I got about 5 more trips planned to the US, then they can stick it where the sun don't shine.

I can't be bothered with all their crap each time I enter and being spoken to like a criminal by law enforcement agencies, and I'm white European. Makes me wonder what it's like for other races if it's that bad for me.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5781 times:

"By the way, this information is not only available to the FBI but to all US law enforcement agencies."


So what? it's about time we effectively tracked "visitors and otherwise" here...


User currently offlineJj From Algeria, joined Jun 2001, 1227 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5778 times:

Acording to my father, it was easier for him to get into the ex USSR than it is to get into the USA nowadays.... well, guess we'll find another place that someway replaces the US....

User currently offlineI LOVE EWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 852 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5773 times:

I honestly DON'T see what the problem with this is? The United States is trying to protect ourselves from future Terroristic Attacks. If this helps than it is worth it to me.

User currently offlineTrey From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 250 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5769 times:

If the securtiy probelm bothers you then don't come. No one is making you. I play hell everytime I come back to the UK from the USA (I live here now) and vice versa and I am a USA citizen. Doesn't bother me a bit. I find some of it silly, but I find the same here at LHR on arrival. Visiting a foreign country regardless of where or when is a privildge and not a right, so keep that in mind.

User currently offlineTZSFO From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 202 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

What's the big deal??? Customs doesn't actually have "access" to the information...Meaning that they can't just access the GDS at will...The information has to be sent to them by the carrier. A lot of countries do this...When our SFO-CUN flight departs we have to transmit the PNR data to Mexican customs...If the data isn't transmitted and received by Mexican Customs our AC could be refused landing rights....Same for the US. I don't see the big deal - This is just another way for countries to protect themselves and has been going on long before 9/11. Airlines are not the only ones required to provide the manifests either...Cruise ships and other modes of transportation are required to send them as well...

my $0.02

TZ



It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5692 times:

Traveling to the US is getting really out of question for me, I have really enough of all the random checks and immigration questions. But last week, I had even a worst experience than the US....while flying in/out New-Delhi!


Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineClipper471 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5692 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

What would happen now if "Joe American" were to fly from Canada or Mexico on a foreign airline to Cuba? Would he now be caught since US Customs now can view your overseas travel itineraries?

[Edited 2003-04-16 03:23:09]

User currently offlineKappa13 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 163 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5689 times:

I don't see what the big deal is. I don't have anything to hide. I was surprise though when I was traveling back to Vermont from Canada and the Customs lady started talking to me about being a student pilot. She had that information on her computer. No it wasn't the conversation about being a terrorist but what's it like and that kind of stuff.. But it probably depends on the person you get. But anyway, as long as they aren't constantly calling my house or stuff like that I don't see a problem having information about me. Hell I would even give them information if that would help.

Todd


User currently offlineSpeedbirdyvr From Canada, joined Mar 2003, 168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Leezyjet is right. Europe has been living with the terrorist threat for years, but they don't scrutinize people this way. It just shows you how effective and better-trained law enforcement officials are in other countries without having to invade people's privacy. I think it's sad that it has come down to this because it affects trade and the flow of businessmen and women, even those with legitimate reasons. Globalization is the reason why the US is an economic and military powerhouse, but with the current isolationist policy of the Bush administration, one has to wonder whether this spells the end for US might, much like the collapse of the British, Roman and other empires over the course of history.

User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

The problem is, they've access to all data, even if I don't come to the US, they can get all my flight details.



User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5647 times:

I sincerely doubt they have access to all data.

N


User currently offlineTZSFO From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 202 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5649 times:

Racko - While I can't read German and don't have a clue what the article says above....I am guessing it says that US Customs can "access" all information on the GDSs. I think that is media over-reaction...US customs can only access what the airlines send...only that...not the entire system...


It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5628 times:

When you close a flight to the US on BWIA's system.. (we use Sabre) information is sent to US Immigration of passengers travel info, and travel documents.

All our flights to Trinidad invloves the same procedures. In fact if we input the incorrect information, eg, wrong country code... the airline incurs a US5000.00 fine.. Stiff penalty.

Alot of countries, even in the caribbean, has access to airlines systems. In Grenada that is just now beeing set up. They even got nice LCD's.. and we at checkin are stuck with the big buts.  Smile



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

"If the security problem bothers you then don't come. No one is making you."

The thing is: Regardless whether you are flying from Europe to the US or from Europe to Europe, the DO have access to ALL saved information. So even if I don't want to come to the land of the free and brave, I have no alternative but to hand out all my details to some other countries law enforcement agencies.

I have no problem with "the war on terrorism", living in New York I should see the need for this. But forcing foreign carriers to let them access their reservation system for ALL bookings goes a too far...



User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 5474 times:

Should you care whether they have access to your PNR or not? Do you have anything to hide? I don't. I don't care whether they look or not, it's just travelling and I have nothing to hide.


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 5451 times:

Setjet- Again, I sincerely doubt this is the case. There is no way they have access to a foreign national's flight data if that foreign national is not coming to the United States.

N


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 5416 times:

Setjet- Again, I sincerely doubt this is the case. There is no way they have access to a foreign national's flight data if that foreign national is not coming to the United States.

I saw the report yesterday evening and it is true that the US customs have access to all data, even when the flight don`t originate or land in the USA!

Patrick


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

I honestly DON'T see what the problem with this is....

the only people that have a problem are the paranoid and those that have something to hide. If you use the internet for shopping banking etc, all that is privy to hackers and screwballs, so privacy is nil there. And No, I don't think someone should be able to come here if they have let's say spent months in the Bekka Valley or other places on the verboten list...Itt would have been nice if we more effectively "traced" Atta for instance....


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 5400 times:

the only people that have a problem are the paranoid and those that have something to hide.

You are correct, I have indeed something to hide and that is my credit card number.

Patrick


25 Post contains images Jhooper : but with the current isolationist policy of the Bush administration Doesn't isolationism mean that we generally stay out of world affairs? Well, I'd s
26 Post contains images 747-451 : You are correct, I have indeed something to hide and that is my credit card number... The don't use it on the Internet to buy your ticket, or use it i
27 Post contains links Petertenthije : All airlines have to reveal this information now. Today it was a topic on "Netwerk" on Dutch TV station nederland1. It said that the KLM had to rewrit
28 BIK : Americans can already listen to our phone calls, read our e-mails, read our mail, find out anything and everything about us and you are worried that t
29 Post contains images 747-451 : "If KLM does not do this they were threatened with fines, delays and even that their US slots would be revoked. Next to the amendments in the computer
30 KUGN : Absolutely - if you don't want to comply, don't fly there. Clipper471: "What would happen now if "Joe American" were to fly from Canada or Mexico on a
31 Petertenthije : I can understand that the US autorities want to know who is coming into and out of the US, that is their good right. What I object to is that they cha
32 Stratofish : "The don't use it on the Internet to buy your ticket, or use it in a store either..." So I should pay my next flight cash??? If I don't fly to the US
33 Post contains images 747-451 : "What I object to is that they change the rules and that as a consequence KLM as well as all other airlines that fly to the US have to adapt their com
34 KUGN : Petertenthije, other industries as well have been served with increasingly stricter regulations, and higher standards that have raised the cost of ope
35 SailorOrion : Some people really have no idea what they are talking about here. A person who is protecting his/her privacy is sane, not paranoid. I am very cautious
36 Sabena332 : This is a statement which REALLY makes my hair stand up. Especially from an American. Freedom of movement is a RIGHT in the western world. So is priva
37 Post contains images 747-451 : "This is a statement which REALLY makes my hair stand up. Especially from an American. Freedom of movement is a RIGHT in the western world. So is priv
38 Post contains links Setjet : To anybody who is still unclear of the new "freedom" (that is for US Customs of course!): http://www.britishairways.com/AskBA.servlet?audience=travel&
39 Gigneil : That is not what it says, at all. You're taking the words and running away into lalaland with them. It says specifically in several locations on that
40 Airzim : Talk about playing fast and lose with the facts; you people are unbelievable. Not only is the US doing this, but it also clearly states that Canada, A
41 Setjet : "If you seriously think that Belgium and Germany are so much more free and liberal than the US you are living in a dream world." Legally in Germany ac
42 Airzim : The real question is, is the story that the German TV program reported correct? I think several people in this forum have given alternative notions of
43 Post contains images Setjet : Thanks Airzim for your response! I understand your point and fully agree with almost everything you wrote. As another interesting side note: Every (fo
44 Ctbarnes : As an US citizen, are you required to fill in any form? No! Er, yes we are. American citizens are still required to fill out a customs declaration whi
45 Setjet : "As an US citizen, are you required to fill in any form? No!" Of course I meant: US citizens are not required to fill out any card when entering the
46 Sabena332 : In all my years of traveling, I have never been asked to take my wallet out. You are joking, right? Patrick
47 Post contains images Klaus : Airzim: Those Turks that live in Germany will never be German. Those Algerians in Paris will never be French. But they can all be Americans. You´ve g
48 Jumbolino : Guys ! please tell me urgently that this isn't true ! I had no flight and I will not have any flights to the US and although they have all my data inc
49 Thadocta : Looking at this thread, I see an underlying theme (and I admit, I have only read half-way through it, before I got bored) - "If you have nothing to hi
50 Avion : Isn't this also unconstitutional? If they can access US citizens itineraries outside the United States. Isn't that unreasonable search? Tom
51 Airzim : Klaus, What prejeduice exactly were you refering too? Look I never said that Turks living in Germany can't be German citizens, what I said is they can
52 Post contains links Ha763 : Last thing I read was that an agreement between the EC and US Customs is that the US Customs will only access passengers who will have a stop in a US
53 Clipper471 : Related to the disclosure of such information to the feds... I went to my dentist two weeks ago- the same dentist I've been going to for 19.5 years. A
54 Klaus : Airzim: Look I never said that Turks living in Germany can't be German citizens, what I said is they can never be German. Big difference. And still wr
55 Post contains images 747-451 : "And any US citizen who claims that "I have nothing to hide, so I should have nothing to fear" should trot that line out next time the cops wish to se
56 Gigneil : You can't search anywhere without a warrant in the United States. And, as has been repeatedly pointed out, they have no access to information for non-
57 Airzim : Klaus, Sorry I still disagree. Nor do I believe that anything I said is prejudice toward Europeans. I still don't get that. And in fact the Muslims th
58 Post contains images Klaus : Airzim: Sorry I still disagree. Yeah, what do I know; After all, I only live here! Airzim: Nor do I believe that anything I said is prejudice toward E
59 Airzim : Maybe it is because your so condescending. Your "actual knowledge" maybe different from mine, but it doesn't make it any less credible. That's your ju
60 Sabena332 : Having been to Germany many times, and the discussions I have had with Germans and non Germans living there, as well as the UK, France, etc I have for
61 Post contains images Fly_emirates : well, the fact of 20 or 19 hijackers bombing planes into the world trade center is still unforgetable. at least you are told in the USA if you are hav
62 Pmcdonald : I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said something to the effect of: "He who sacrifices even the smallest bit of his liberty for the sake of securit
63 Klaus : Airzim: Maybe it is because your so condescending. I´m a bit angered by the kind of stereotypical and overall unfounded judgments you proposed above.
64 SegmentKing : you folks are absolutely histerical. APIS data is a normal thing. Amadeus just opened the gap w/ APIS data transfers to include more information. US C
65 Airzim : Explain to me how calling you condecending is sterotypical? Of whom? Germans? Did you ever see where I wrote that. Last word from me on this discussio
66 Setjet : "Your privacy *is* protected, believe it or not." Thanks Nate for assuring our privacy. Nevertheless I would prefer to hear that from our (US) Governm
67 Thadocta : "And any US citizen who claims that "I have nothing to hide, so I should have nothing to fear" should trot that line out next time the cops wish to se
68 Thadocta : "You can't search anywhere without a warrant in the United States.' You CAN if you are at an airport. Yet another example of how this obscure 18th Cen
69 Post contains images Klaus : Airzim: Explain to me how calling you condecending is sterotypical? I don´t know, since I referred to your initial remarks. Airzim: Last word from me
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