Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Did Northwest Fly To Malaysia And Indonesia  
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 381 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3679 times:

According to OAG's Oct'97 guide they had sought permission to serve Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta both with a DC-10, what happened then?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Art Brett




.....up there with the best!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

I don't know the details of JKT ops, but they served KUL until summer 2000 with a DC-10 running SEA-KIX-KUL

User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

Thanks for the info, Why did they quit?


.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineOdiE From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3543 times:

Northwest flew to Kuala Lumpur back in the 80's but had suspended their services due to poor loads. They reinstated their flights in February 1998 only to suspend it again in September 2001.

NWA's flights from UL / WMKK), Malaysia">KUL wren't popular among Malaysians. They flew 3 times weekly on the Kuala Lumpur-Osaka run on their DC-10s. Perhaps, the first thing that came across people's mind was the age/type of the aircraft. In the Asian (or rather, to be more specific, South East Asian mind), DC-10s are old and uncomfortable (to the extent of being unsafe in a DC-10, although these people have no idea how NW maintains their plane). Asians prefer to travel in newer, bigger planes rather than old or smaller planes. (You might notice why SIA and CX operate all wide-bodies and relatively young fleets) Take the 50 minute hop from UL / WMKK), Malaysia">KUL-SIN for example. With the exception of RA's B757 flight, all these flights are on wide-bodies (SQ - B772, MAS - A332, JAL - B767/B777/MD-11, UL - A330 and AI - A310) This might explain why MAS is "forced" to introduce A332 into its fleet solely for its UL / WMKK), Malaysia">KUL-SIN runs (although they have once daily flights to BKI and KCH using A332 too).

Also, NWA operated their UL / WMKK), Malaysia">KUL flights into Osaka, instead of their hub at Tokyo, thus making less connections available to the States. They are currently code-sharing with KLM on the airline's 5 weekly AMS-UL / WMKK), Malaysia">KUL flights though.

Here's a pic of them at UL / WMKK), Malaysia">KUL:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Charles Falk



User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3492 times:


I do not believe NW ever started service to CGK. I know they hired
a station manager and had an airport ticket office, but never actually
operated any flights. A small fact that is not real well known is that
at the time NW, KL and GA were supposed have a fully working
tri-lateral alliance. NW was going to handle the USA and Northern
Asia, KL would handle Europe, Africa and the Middle East and GA would
handle Southern Asia and Australia/New Zealand. Things progressed
to the point that GA consolidated all of their USA offices at NW facilities.
This included cargo, as well. The Asian economic crisis of 96-97
pretty much put a halt to all of these plans. Then GA suspended service
to the U.S.A and NW and KL started working with MH.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3435 times:

By the way, I think that Asian bias is a bunch of BS. No offense.

Many people said that Asians would only fly 747's across the Pacific because they felt safer. Well look at NRT flight to the States. And even ANA flies 777 to the US and they still carry people.

I used to bend over backwards to the "Asian cultural nuances," but to be honest I think alot of that attitude is self perpetuated by American's. Most Asians (sorry to generalize) seriously don't care. JAL flies DC-10's from Japan to BKK and HKG among other destinations, people still fly on them.


User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3375 times:

In the late 1990s, traffic to AA), Japan">NRT was strong while expansion was limited. So NW decided to further build up a KIX hub, giving USA-based passengers more opportunities for connectivity (while easing the pressure off the AA), Japan">NRT flights) and, of course, connecting more passengers between Asia and KIX/USA. I believe, at one point, NW served more Asian destinations from KIX then they did from AA), Japan">NRT. Anyway, NW never generated the amount of traffic they had hoped to and predicted decreases in traffic due to the weakening US and Japanese economies. NW decided to dismantle most of the KIX hub, shifting some of the destinations to AA), Japan">NRT (by taking advantage of the second runway/new slots). The three A320 serving AA), Japan">NRT were (if successful) to be replaced with five B757 (should NW be successful in acquiring more slots) – KUL was rumored to be among the destinations eventually receiving a B757 flight from AA), Japan">NRT.

- - -

OdiE, If anything, the DC-10 was too large an aircraft for NW’s KIX-KUL route. Yes, there are more widebody flights within Asian… but that’s because most fares are significantly higher than they would be on comparable flight lengths in the USA (in fact, one can currently fly from East Coast USA – Beijing for about the same price as one could fly AA), Japan">NRT-AA), China">PEK), there is less frequency on routes and large amounts of traffic. Thus, Asian carriers can justify flying widebodies domestically whereas many times a USA-based carrier cannot. Also, the age of the DC-10 was not a major factor in the routes failure... JAL successfully used then, and even now, large amounts of DC-10 flights to/from KIX. Although the age of an aircraft becomes a big deal after an accident/etc., the truth is that most Asians are like most Americans – they could give two hoots about the age of a plane, they care about what it looks like on the inside (and CO’s DC-10 looked a lot nice on the insider than AA’s B763 did in the late 1990s).


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6966 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

NW never flew to Indonesia.

The GA/NW flights to the US used to involve MH codeshare to KL and then onto NW... when that got suspended, it's GA to SIN and then NW from SIN.

The only US airline that has flown schedules into Indonesia is Continental...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

Mandala,

Did Pan Am ever serve Jakarta?


User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2937 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

AirZim - you'd find that Malaysians and Singaporeans are quite fussy about their aircraft types - which is odd. Many travellers are quite aware of the aircraft type an airline operates partly due to the coverage of their local airlines in the media.

Many threads posted on this forum (often by Asians) often relate to (for example) "how come MAS uses the 737 on many routes like Bangkok when Thai operates the A330 and A300" etc... and often we hear of "MAS 737s are uncomfortable as compared to SQs A310s or 777s on regional routes".... Many are then surprised to learn that many flights in the US and around Europe operate with little more than a 737 on longer flights.

Malaysians and Singaporeans (I can only speak from that point of view being ex-Malaysian myself) have been spoilt by the profitability of aviation in the region - they are used to having their newly-arriving 777s (or whatever) splashed on the front pages of the press and covered by the main TV news channels and therefore are quite aware of what plane is what.

British Airways lost many passengers on their LHR-KUL route when they introduced the TriStar on the route. For many years, MAS took full advantage of this and advertised (with great pleasure) that MAS flies the 747 to London. BA retaliated when they took delivery of the 747-400s and spent a small fortune making sure the Malaysian public were aware of this and T-shirts, posters around the country were handed out - 'British Airways 747-400 - Kuala Lumpur to London NONSTOP' - making a great effort to praise the aircrafts talents.

It is not a matter of safety that Asians would choose a 747 - they just want the newest that money can buy and frankly, many colleagues and friends I knew - never flew NW out of KUL in favour of MAS' direct service to LAX on-board a 747 with all the comforts of personal IFEs, etc...

Weird I know but unfortunately not entirely untrue...





User currently offlineOdiE From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

IndustrialPate: I would agree that DC-10 is too big of a aircraft between KIX and KUL. If I remember correctly, I actually saw NWA putting B757 at one point for their flight schedules between KIX and KUL, but obviously, that didn't happen. If NWA indeed get extra rights to operate out of NRT, do you know which B757 are they going to use? B753? I would have thought that there would definitelly be room for at least one American carrier to operate into KUL. There are about 9,000 Malaysian students in America, not to forget the amount of Americans in Malaysia.

Also, does anybody know when will NWA and MAS start code-sharing? They had been granted anti-trust in 2000 and never make full use of it. Beside reciprocral FFP, I don't see any further co-operation between these two airlines (and that does not include earning miles to gain elite level). The last I checked on NWA website, it was stated that they are going to start co-operating in 2003, but this had been post-poned a couple of times. It make sense for NWA to fly into KUL if they want a higher level of co-operation with MAS.


User currently offlineGaruda From Indonesia, joined Nov 2000, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

Airzim and Mandala,

Pan Am did serve Jakarta from the early 60's using B707, a continuation from Singapore. They changed it to B747 via Bangkok in the early 80's. My dad flew PA's B747, HLP-JFK via BKK, HKG and some other cities that he couldn't remember (I believed it's SFO), on the return flight, he had a stop over at HNL. Note: HLP is Halim Perdanakusuma Int'l Airport, the former gateway to Jakarta before CGK was opened in 1986.

PA also served DPS using B707. One of PA's B707 crashed in Bali in the 70's. I don't know when PA ceased it's Indonesian operation though.

There are some pics of PA and couple of other airlines at HLP and JAK (Jakarta Kemayoran Airport) in this website :
http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/vicondisa/indc10-1.htm


User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

OdiE,

NW’s long-term strategy was to replace the three A320 at AA), Japan">NRT with five (initially) B757-200. The B752 routes were suppose to be the A320 routes (KHH, PUS, TPE) + KUL and SGN. I have no idea whether or not the B752 would come from NW’s current fleet, be purchased new or be acquired second-hand. I do know that the B752 would have a fair amount of WBC seats (unlike the A320) but no PTVs in economy.

The plan has probably been temporarily shelved, or perhaps scrapped. A fourth A320 will be ferried to AA), Japan">NRT next week to fly AA), Japan">NRT-HKG. In addition, NW has not yet applied for AA), Japan">NRT-KUL and has lost their rights to AA), Japan">NRT-SGN (UA and AA were awarded the rights last fall – both carriers will use them to codeshare on their respective partners).


User currently offlineOdiE From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

IndustrialPate: Thanx for the information. I would have thought that now isn't the prime time for an US airline to reinstate/inaugurate services into Malaysia due to global happenings. Also, they are trying to cut losses and introducing new routes will perhaps incur more losses for the airline.

By the way, do NWA need to apply for the AA), Japan">NRT-KUL rights? They still have their KIX-KUL rights, right? By the way, although AA is code-sharing with JAL on the AA), Japan">NRT-KUL route, I don't see AA's presence in the Malaysian market at all, albeit they have an office (that is being handled by Cathay) at Kuala Lumpur. And AA only code-shares with JAL on the KUL-AA), Japan">NRT route and not AA), Japan">NRT-KUL! Also, AA are code-sharing with Cathay too on the HKG-KUL-HKG route (flight number AA 6112/6113/6098/6099).


User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3096 times:

Mandala499 NW were definitely planning to fly to Jakarta in 97 their flights were listed in OAG's October issue and it said they were seeking govt. approval.




.....up there with the best!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Did Iberia Fly To Bolivia And Honduras? posted Sat Nov 29 2003 14:48:26 by CptGirmayTesfa
Do Air Seychelles Fly To Heathrow And Gatwick? posted Fri Jun 4 2010 04:35:50 by 8herveg
Did BA Fly To Santo Domingo? posted Sun Jan 10 2010 14:49:28 by Ryand36
What Plane Did Sarkozy Fly To The US posted Thu Nov 8 2007 00:53:12 by Joni
Jet To Fly To LAX And IAD In Feb. 2008 posted Wed Oct 31 2007 13:01:55 by LAXDESI
CX's Plan To Fly To Manchester And Moscow posted Fri Jul 20 2007 04:25:56 by United Airline
What Did NW Fly To STL In The 70s/80s? posted Sun Jun 17 2007 07:24:34 by Falstaff
KE Wants To Fly To GRU And JNB posted Wed Jun 6 2007 13:03:58 by LIPZ
Where Does Northwest Fly To From Amsterdam? posted Sun Oct 8 2006 13:35:38 by 8herveg
Brazilian Ocean Air Plans To Fly To LIM And LAX posted Thu Jul 27 2006 23:29:54 by MaiYYZ