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AvWeek: AirTran Nears Order For 100 Planes  
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 33
Posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

Dear Gang,

This article from today's AviationWeek Online is really interesting:

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_aviationdaily_story.jsp?id=news/airtran04233.xml

Doesn't offer any clues as to the A v. B decision on bigger planes, but does note that AirTran's growth has been well matched to demand: load factor went up 1.5 points over last 1q, on top of a 28.5 % capacity increase. Sounds like these guys are doing a really good job keeping on top of their costs, which is keeping FL in the black despite war and fuel price increases.

Jim


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5093 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3830 times:

I wonder if Boeing can maintain its hold on AirTran.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

I hope so!

It would be awesome for Boeing to get this one now that JetBlue has said they will take on more Airbuses.

WOW!!!

Just when you think the airline world is falling all around you, you get great news like these two orders. Kinda reminds me of revenge of the nerds  Big thumbs up.


User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3753 times:

Great. Let the B6 vs. FL wars begin...

Jim, AirTran sounds very pleased with the 717. I know the ROC flights are humming along nicely. Care to make an educated guess as to what equipment they'll pick up?



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineGr8slvrflt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1609 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Rumors and internal chatter are all leaning toward Airbus but my prediction is a combination of 717-200/300 and 737-700/800. Nothing would surprise me at this point, though (except widebodies, maybe).

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8044 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

I think FL will probably buy 30-40 more 717-200's initially. But the rest of the order depends on how well the A320's flown by Ryan International do in AirTran service.

I have this feeling that FL may end up ordering the 737-800 for transcon flights from ATL, especially now with so many production slots for the 737 free.


User currently offlineAviationMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

What kind of planes are Air Tran looking for?

User currently offlineGr8slvrflt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1609 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

I really don't think Ryan International's A-320s have anything to do with any future order. I'm sure Ryan simply offered the best package for the best price. There is enough operational data out there on both Airbus and Boeing types for the company to consider. In addition, Ryan service starts in June, about the time an announcement is likely.

User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

I bet there are more 717s in this order also. Could we say 25 717s and 25 737-7/800s.

And hey, if there is anyone out there who can do it, tell AirTran to go with the winglets, please.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

Unless they plan on adding MANY flights to the West, the winglets just aren't the best plan.

For the winglets to help with fuel burn, you need an average stage length of about 3 hours. They also help takeoff performance from short fields, which they don't really operate much from.

N


User currently offlineGr8slvrflt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1609 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

From what was stated in the earnings conference call on Tuesday, MANY flights to the west are coming.

User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

But the winglets just look so cool  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

According to Gr8slvrflt, if MANY flights to the west are coming, then I'd agree with him and ATCboy73. . .Airtran will most likely order the 737NG as well as more 717s. Unless, of course, Airbus way undercuts Boeing, such as in the case of F9. . .which then I'd say they would get some 717s with some A32Xs.

DIA



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User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

...or, they could just pick the A320 because its a great plane.

Not every single time Airbus wins an order is it because they beat Boeing on price.

N


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

True Gigneil, I did not intend pigeon-hole Airbus if that's the way you read it. I just thought I would give Airbus a fighting chance here instead of just mentioning Boeing.

DIA



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User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

Mark, I don't really know who has the edge for AirTran's plans for a/c bigger than the 717-200. Boeing seems natural because of the existing relationship, but Airbus is famously good at offering below-cost deals.

It would not be at all surprising, Gr8slvrflt, if AirTran does have big plans for transcon flights. With Atlanta's powerhouse combination of O & D and connecting traffic, and AirTran's LCC cost structure, AirTran could probably make money flying to almost any long driveway on the West Coast. Even second-tier markets like SMF could probably support a daily A320 into ATL.

It'd be a fight though; Delta more or less admitted they want to go predatory when they told AvWeek a month ago that they're going to "flood the market with capacity" between ATL and the LA Basin this summer. Department of Justice, take notice.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

Yes, I would agree with DCA-ROCguy: " Boeing seems natural because of the existing relationship, but Airbus is famously good at offering below-cost deals."

As he echoed my sentiments, Airbus is known for below-cost deals.

DIA



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User currently offlineM717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3456 times:

Management has stated on numerous occasions that they are looking to Boeing for either the 717-300 (if they decide to produce it) or the 737-700; or to Airbus for the A319. They want airplanes that they can fill, so the extra capacity of the 737-800 or A320 is not really a priority. Not to mention the additional pay rates for the pilots associated with these aircraft. (Although I'm certain that wouldn't figure into the decision, now would it?  Big grin)

And to DIA, if AirTran goes with the A319, it will most definitely be because of price. Or more correctly, cost. Costs that include not just the cost of the aircraft, but debt incurred as a result, pilot training costs, etc.

My gut reaction is that the powers that be at AirTran are giving Boeing every opportunity to step up to the plate with this aircraft order, and part of that includes restructuring of the current debt load that AirTran has with Boeing. If they do this, I am certain that we will go with Boeing. If not, then I guess it will be Airbus. In other words, a level playing field favors Boeing, in my opinion.


User currently offlineM717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3445 times:

"It'd be a fight though; Delta more or less admitted they want to go predatory when they told AvWeek a month ago that they're going to "flood the market with capacity" between ATL and the LA Basin this summer."

At the rate they are currently losing money, there is only so long they can bleed cash. Let them "flood the market". Dumping seats at below cost just to protect their market share will only contribute to their ongoing financial problems.


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

M717: "And to DIA, if AirTran goes with the A319, it will most definitely be because of price. Or more correctly, cost. Costs that include not just the cost of the aircraft, but debt incurred as a result, pilot training costs, etc.

I agree with you whole-heartedly.

Cheers,
DIA




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User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8199 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3394 times:

I think it'll be Airbus. One major reason is that the A32x line will still be open when AirTran sell the planes, whereas the 737 will have gone the way of the 727, so the resale value of A32xs in 15 years time will be higher. There are other factors of course but very few of them favour Boeing.

Whoever is the lucky mnfr, it's nice to see a US carrier prosper in such difficult times.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

Cedarjet: "One major reason is that the A32x line will still be open when AirTran sell the planes, whereas the 737 will have gone the way of the 727. . ."

What?!?!

Where did you get this bit of info? Can you post a link?

Cheers,
DIA



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User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

I think all of you are wrong. The 757 line sure could use some orders these days and its the best transcon plane out there...  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8199 posts, RR: 54
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

DIA, it's only speculation, but where, in five years time, are 737 orders going to come from? The NG had a great start cos a select few US majors replaced enormous fleets of MD80s and 737 Classics. From now on, most 737 orders will be top-ups and the odd Ryanair bonanza. I don't know if that'll keep the line rolling til AirTran sell their 737NGs.

Not that resale value is the only factor, but for the same reason it affects the availability of parts, spare aircraft, additional orders etc.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

Thanks for clarifying Cedarjet.

I don't know, though, that I'd agree with you about the future 737NG orders being just a few. That would mean that Airbus A32X orders would go the same way. I would think that once the airline industry, worldwide, gets back on its feet, both Airbus and Boeing will see a flurry of new orders for their hot-selling A32Xs and 737NGs.

DIA



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25 Dynkrisolo : Cedarjet: What makes you think the 737NG is at the end of its life? You called Ryanair's order an odd bonanza, but the same can be said about Easyjet'
26 Cedarjet : Who knows what will happen. I am obviously a bigger fan of the A32x than I am of the 737NG (although I'm pretty impartial on the overall AvB debate) -
27 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : DIA, it's only speculation, but where, in five years time, are 737 orders going to come from? Hmm... the world's 1st and 3rd largest airlines replacin
28 Dynkrisolo : Broader customer base has little bearing on what the future ordering pattern might look like. The 300/310 has a broader customer base than the 767. Hi
29 DIA : Dynkrisolo, well said. Good perspective too. DIA
30 Udo : I think the resale value of the B737NG won't be lower compared to the A32X. Maybe the current A32X models even fall in value if Airbus decides to upda
31 CX747 : I agree with Udo, I would really like to see the 717-300 become a reality. The -200 is an outstanding aircraft and it really deserves the chance to sh
32 Sllevin : One would hope that Airbus has replaced the A320 with something new 15 years from now... Let's not forget that the 737NG wing and improvements are act
33 DIA : I believe the A32Xs first flew in 1987/8.
34 RayChuang : I'm beginning to seriously think that if FL chooses a plane that can fly from ATL to the US West Coast year-round, they'll likely end up buying the 73
35 Post contains images AApilot2b : You all are wrong. Air Tran is definitely looking for that capacity increase that only the A380 can offer. They are going to use it on services to Cha
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