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Where Does EK Plan To Use The A380 For?  
User currently offlineCtang From Australia, joined Jul 2001, 139 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Can anyone answer this question?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

The very popular DXB-LHR route is slated as at least one for the A380, perhaps even the first scheduled A380 route. I recall hearing EK and SQ were to launch the first commercial A380 services on the same day, from SIN to LHR and from DXB to LHR.

No idea if this will actually happen as planned though.



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlineFpdonald From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

Wherever the market needs it at the time!

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

That would account for about 1 or 2 aircraft. What about the other 20-21 airplanes? Some of those are freighters but still they will need to fill a lot of seats year around to make this airplane work.

User currently offline9V-SVE From Singapore, joined Nov 2001, 2066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

EK has quite a few flights a day to London, Frankfurt, Paris, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Australia etc.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5471 times:

I could see the A380 going to ACMI and pax charter operators that can contract out capacity as needed. I just cannot think of that many routes that would need that much capacity year around. One could argue that the 380 will stimulate demand but then again carriers downgauging from 744 to 340/777 in many instances.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5453 times:

I believe that EK's plan is to create a major intercontinental hub at Dubai and hope to attract many customers with superior service and ease of connections, if you think about what SQ has created at SIN, its not far off from what EK has in mind for DXB. If the plan goes according to plan, the A380s would mainly be used on flights out of DXB to major European cities on one side of the hub and major Asian and Austalian cities on the other side of the hub, with "smaller" A330s and 777s filing in the gaps. EK also want to start service to the US - its probably waiting for its ultra-long range aircraft to be delivered and for the worldwide political situtation to calm down.

Dont underestimate EK's plans.....they come very far in not a very long time.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5327 times:

Dutchjet,

Everything you say is true. However, this carrier ordered 2x the number of 380s that SQ did. SQ already has a complete network up and running. That is very audacious; EK made a huge bet...I hope it pays foff for them.


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5322 times:
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The analysts at Emirates predict their passenger numbers will double and then triple by 2010, hence the need for a 500 seater A380, they already send 3 777-300's daily to LHR. EK could fill a A380 right now on it's LHR service. Whether this materialises remains to be seen, but don't bet against it, EK's route network and passenger numbers has been growing rapidly, like Qatar airways.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5297 times:

I'm sure they could fill 3 A380s when the A380 comes out but will the yield will be decent at all?
I also cannot see their being demand for A380 flights from the US to DXB even in 2006+.

Whether this materialises remains to be seen, but don't bet against it, EK's route network and passenger numbers has been growing rapidly, like Qatar airways
True,but QF is not profitable for sure(although with future plans to privitase when they do become profitable which is predicted in around 5 years,AFIK)and EK is not too from what I have read.But,with the capital they have,do they need to be!?!?



User currently offlineMehtabrahman From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5228 times:

Because the A380 will carry such a large volume of passengers, would that mean the price of each seat will decrease as well? If so, by how many percent?
I can imagine the A380's being full to the brim with passengers during the peak seasons, but what about the off-peak seasons?


User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5150 times:

> Because the A380 will carry such a large volume of passengers, would that
> mean the price of each seat will decrease as well? If so, by how many
> percent?

Yes, there will amost certainly be economies of scale. Compared to vanilla 747s, the standard A380 has 49% more usable area that you can bolt seats into; but the running costs are unlikely to be much higher.

Airbus' own sales figures are based around 555 pax in 3 classes; this is lower density than the 744 but you still have signicantly more seats. With this lower density (and the quieter cabin) EK would have little difficulty charging a small premium, but they can still sell lots more tickets.

Again, airbus' own figures suggest break-even at 323 pax, but that's subject to a thousand different factors so I don't think it's really useful except to point out that there are a lot more profit-bearing seats left. There's no way anybody can give reliable percentages for EK, because it just hasn't been tried before, the first A380 hasn't been bolted together yet so nobody can be sure how much it will cost to run, and so on.

As N79969 says, it does seem to be a bold push. If they can make all those routes work, and if people want to travel through their hub (which would suddenly be promoted to the big league of hubs), they could be *very* successful. If.
I'd love to see them succeed.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5140 times:

It is more of a gamble for SQ to order 10 A380s than EK to order 20, simply for the fact that Emirates can be loosing millions and millions a year, and it simply will not matter.


a.
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

True  Sad

I think the economics of the A380 are good, and can only improve if you buy a bigger fleet (if you can fill them, obviously). That needs a huge chunk of capital, though - the only way to get it is by asking the banks and VCs nicely, or by being EK.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

Does anyone have any real financial figures for Emirates? I mean, like the equivalent of an annual report - complete with a balance sheet, statement of cash flows, and income statement? This ain't a rhetorical question. I can't find it, and I'd like to know.

---
Airbus' own sales figures are based around 555 pax in 3 classes; this is lower density than the 744 but you still have signicantly more seats. With this lower density (and the quieter cabin) EK would have little difficulty charging a small premium, but they can still sell lots more tickets.
----

The extra space per passenger is used for the aisles and staircases necessary to pass evacuation tests and to load/unload in a reasonable time. This extra space will probably not affect passenger comfort to any real degree. The inside "feel" of the A380 will be more like that of a the A330 than it will be like the 747. This is because of the size of the individual decks. This means fewer middle seats than a 747 or 777, but a less spacious feel. Some prefer the widebodied twin "look and feel" some prefer the 747/777 "look and feel". I doubt you could charge a premium for the A380's comfort - unless you simply put fewer seats in it than 555. This could be a viable strategy, however. Carry 400 some seats in an A380 and your A380 will be a lot more comfortable than someone else's 747 with the same number of seats.

Another question....How many "Great Circle" routes between Europe and Asia pass close by DXB? A quick look on the map shows that it is a reasonably good hub for routes to Southeast Asia and Australia. However, it is not as good for routes to central Asia(Taiwan , Southern China area). And it is definitely going out of your way to stop at DXB if you are going to Korea, Japan or northern China. When more routes are available through Russia, and political conditions improve in a handfull other countries the "great circle" route goes over improve, my guess is the appeal of DXB will fade a bit. Of course - the great circle is not always the best route considering ETOPS, winds aloft, etc. So I may be off base here.....But he question remains - is DXB really a good place to stop between Europe and Asia? Will it remain so for the foreseeable future?

More importantly, there are many Asian hubs that are already well established and have room for growth. These hubs have market savvy and popular airlines defending them. How good is Emirates at competing with the likes of Singapore, especially since Singapore is better positioned to capture American traffic?

How much of Emirate's traffic is Europe-Far East anyway? Is this the real source of Emirate's present growth? or is it the desire of the UAE's own citizens to go to Europe to have a good time, combined with the need to import guest workers into the country and carry oil workers/execs?

The big question - "Is Emirate's growth sustainable?" cannot even be guessed at unless we have answers to at least some of the questions I have asked above. My suspicion is that we may be seeing a case of "The Emperor's new Clothes" or rather, "The Emperor's new A380's". But I could be wrong......



User currently offlineB727-200 From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 1051 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

Emirates suggested some time ago that it was going to double-daily non-stop services on DXB-SYD, DXB-MEL and DXB-PER once it had received their A340-500's. I am sure that if this is their vision that the A340-500 strategy would be interchangeable with the A380 (once-daily instead of double daily during certain times of week/year).

They have also suggested that the one-stop Australia-Europe option through a DXB hub will attract a premium on airfares. Their reason for the premium was the number of hours saved on travel time compared to a Australia-SIN-DXB-Europe routing.

In the same article that I read, they claimed that there is only one port in their network (somewhere in South America) that they will not be able to reach non-stop from DXB with the long-range Airbus fleet.

So, this begs a number of questions.

Will a more stable Middle East allow the region to become more attractive to the tourist dollar? Will the SE Asia region and carriers suffer with EK's ability to fly over the traditional hub out of Australasia to Europe? Are EK and GF about to become the next breed of super-carrier?

I feel the phrase "watch this space" may be in order.

B727-200.


User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1872 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4956 times:

Cloudy, here is the link to all their reports
http://www.ekgroup.com/ANREP2002/index.html

About their development strategy, there is another factor I would like to share with everyone.
The DXB royal family is aware that the future of this Emirate is not oil.
So, they have decided to transform the economy a few years ago. And their strategy is to develop tourism.
That's why they created and developped EK, and that's why they are building so many fabulous hotels, such as Burj Al Arab, or Emirates Towers.
They are creating big events too, such as the very popular Dubai Shopping Festival, ot the golf and tennis tournament.
Ek is a tool in a global strategy, and 1 family is controling all the sides of this strategy. That's why they can focus on long term rather than short term.
Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

Thanks for the link.

And it may be an important advantage to be able to focus on the long term rather than the short term. We shall see.....


User currently offlineLHR340 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

Aresnal@LHR - EK sends 2 777-300s daily as EK 001 and EK 003 - EK005 & 006 is an A330-200, but this is due to change to a 777 in months to come.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

EK's A380's at LHR will be very successful and they will be filled and I can't wait to see them here.

LHR340



A340 LoVeR! EC-GQK - LHR The Bussiest International Airport & 3rd Bussiest In The World!
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