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New Evidence That Cell Phones On Airplanes Are BAD  
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6225 times:

I know many posters here just do not believe that cell phones and other electronic devices can interfere with cockpit instruments. Here's a link to an interesting article http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2992973.stm. Now if I've screwed up the link, you can find it on the Drudge Report.



36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

There's not much detail, or technical information, in the things I've read so far... any more suggestions?  Smile

For every report like http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2992973.stm there's one like http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/69/30444.html.

(but as long as there's any ambiguity, I'd rather take the cautious approach)



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6163 times:

The dangers of using certain electronic equipment aboard an aircraft while in flight is well known enough already. I've heard of even Game Boys interfering with nav instruments.

However, I wonder if PDAs and other newer electronic equipment such as digital cameras and vidcams can still pose a hazard, particularly farther up in the front of a plane? I once had a guy next to me whip out a digital video camera (looked like one of the newest models out) because he wanted to get a shot of downtown Vancouver and the mountains - as the AC 737-200 was making a landing.


User currently offlineAirbus-Insider From France, joined Sep 2001, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6146 times:

Just imagine how many people all around the world forget to turn their cell phones off when they board their flight...and have accidents increased over the years???  Nuts



Airbus and Fokker Flyer
User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6208 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6040 times:

I forgot to turn off my cell phone on my last flight, and apparently from what I overheard so did the guy next to me.
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6030 times:

I was on SU, and they let you keep your cell phone on, just they don't let you use it! :P That's crazy.
-Transaero Boeing 737-200



What now?
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8894 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6019 times:

I honestly don't see that big of a reason to have the cell phone on during the flight. You can normally wait a few hours until you get to your destination/layover point (since it seems you always have to connect unless you live in a major hub), and if you absolutely have to make a call, AirPhone is available (the catch is $10/minute; wait a minute though, that's about how much Cingular rips me off on all those bloody charges...)

Jeff


User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5995 times:

Two years ago.....

Air New Zealand B737-200 on final approach ILS rw16 at Wellington (WLG/NZWN).
Aircraft makes sudden diversion from localiser by banking right when a passenger's cellphone rings.
The scary part about this is that if it had banked to the left, the aircraft would've gone straight into a hill.

Now, to those who say that accidents haven't increased due to cellphones being switched on aboard aircraft, shall we wait until it does before doing something about it?
Or shall we ban their use on board until we are absolutely sure of their effects?


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6024 times:

And really the best of luck to you getting a good signal at 35,000 ft, and not changing too many cells in too short a time at 600mph.  Laugh out loud

N


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4751 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5867 times:

There were speculations that the China Airlines A300-600 crash in Taipei's Chiang Kai Shek Int'l was due to a passengers cell phone going off in the final stages of the approach, hence the wild gyrations before slamming into the ground.

However, that crash is still a mystery...



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29792 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

You know.

If the pilots where to actually fly
If and when I am able to build that homebuilt I want to, I am seriously thinking about throwing an ADF in there.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMika From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 2869 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

Are there any serious tests being done on this subject? If not, there should be!

User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

Here's more evidence, over 200 pages of occurences due to electronics devices reported by pilots http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report_sets/ped.pdf. If that's not convicing I don't know what is....

User currently offlineNycank From United States of America, joined May 2000, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5779 times:

Do the A/C avionics use GPS ? Most cell phones would probably be useless since the cell-sites and repeaters are thousands of feet below and would have no signal strength. Dis-orientation of instrumental readings due to no-cell-site-found ?

User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5731 times:

The use of cellphones and leaving them on during flite does not affect the instruments on the flight deck. I even have a 2 way pager that I send messages from during flight and no effect on the airplanes performance. I also use a video camera, Digital Camer and PDA on flights and no effect with those either. So there is no real evidence that Cell phones effect the instruments up front. Also as a pilot I use my cell phone in flight when I am renting airplanes.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

Every electrical and electronic equipment installed into an aircraft must be certified to meet specific EMI (electromagnetic interference) requirements. These include both emission and susceptibility levels.

Each component is designed to limit emissions to a maximum level, and similarly, designed to tolerate emissions at least as great as those being generated. The location on the aicrfat is also a considertaion in the allowable levels. Now, when people bring equipment on board that has not been tested, the integrity of the EMI specification is out the window. It may or may not cause any harm, but since it has not been certified, no one knows. If a passenger happens to use his equipment near a cable bundle, then the emissions radiated from the equipment may be conducted throughout the aircraft's avionics system by the wiring.

Designing for EMI is one of the most challenging engineering tasks, and it seems rather foolish to defeat its integrity by allowing untested equipment to be placed randomly on board.

Pete


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

FutureFO,

You're comparing apples to oranges. Large jets could be subject to different kinds of interference than the planes you rent. MD88Captain, the original poster of this thread, is a pilot for Delta, so I'll tend to lend more credibility to him in this instance. I agree that further study on this subject should be done. Will a cell phone cause interference? Maybe, Maybe not. It depends on a number of things, a large number of things that we don't completely understand. I've read that a cell phone at seat 18A may not do anything, while a cell phone in seat 25C might be disasterous. Yes, I've used cell phones on board a Cessna, but I was in a position to determine that it had no safety impact on my flight. I've even used a cell phone on short final or on the taxiway before in a jet (I know, I'm a bad boy), but certainly not in IMC where my life depends on the operation of the navigational equipment.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5613 times:

FutureFO, pilot or not there's no way you can make such sweeping statements. There's evidence to suggest interference from mobile phones IS a potential problem. Just because your plane hasn't crashed yet doesn't mean it's safe.

User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5563 times:

JHoopoer,


I have used them on board a 777 and a 744 once even while I was jumpseating. So I do have back up to what I am saying.



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

FutureFO...."I have used them on board a 777 and a 744 once even while I was jumpseating. So I do have back up to what I am saying."

That does not prove they are harmless....please read my post above. Maybe your particular brand meets the EMI requirements, maybe its emissions are in a harmless frequency in that particular location, etc. Unless an electronic equipment is certified for a particular location on a particular aircraft type, it should not be used.

Pete


User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5547 times:

FutureFO. You really have no idea of the problem. Nobody is saying that using a cell phone or other electronic device will effect an aircraft every single time. You may be able to use your cellphone on a 777 1000X and never effect its instruments. But on the 1001st time you may be sitting within 18inches on the wire bundle that sends signals from a glideslope antenna. And that input may lead the pilot flying into chasing a bad indication into the ground. Thats the point. Aviation is too unforgiving to allow such interference.

And as I've posted before, I have seen such interference first hand.


User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

MD88Captain,

I see where you are coming from and understand that the odds of it affecting the bundle are pretty weird but I have not experienced on any of the flights and even in GA aircraft I have never seen it happen. although I know there are companies offering Air-Cell phones. I have had someone put a GPS antenna on the surface above my panel and it has effected my compass and my other instruments. Fortunately I was able to recognize it and and ask them to remove the antenna from the panel.



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1985 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5446 times:

Well...there's no evdience that the cell phones on the airplane are bad. Last time, when we approached to Hobart on a Qantaslink B717-200, we heard the engines roaring very loud and my mum could not hear her cell phone rings. After our aircraft touched down on the Hobart Airport runway and the engines shut down shortly. After a few second, SUDDENLY, my mum's cell phone has rung for long time!! I was sooo shocked and suprised and my mum was very embrassed!!!

I have confessed to tell you that I did use a digital video camera on a Canadian B737-200 and film the view of LAX while the plane approached and touched down on the runway in 1997. As far as I know that the B737-200 have lots of gague on the instrument panels I mean no computers! I think it was safe!



The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5387 times:

I have personally used cell phones on aircraft numerous times (I was a Flight Mechanic at the time and was calling Maintenance Control to advise them of an in-flight emergency) without any negative impact on the flight / navigation / systems. The only thing I noticed is, above 10,000 feet, the reception sucks and the service is spotty at best.

Now that being said, when the flight crew says phones "Off", it's phones "Off", period, end of report!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5364 times:

I must ask this - can handheld PDAs (Personal Digital Assistants) such as the Palm m130 or a Sony Clie for example, interfere with instrumental readings in the cockpit in the same way as a cell phone can in a passenger aircraft?

25 Post contains images MxCtrlr : Samurai777, I've personally used my Palm IIIc for an entire flight from TOL-STL-SAN R/T, throughout the flight regimes, while sitting in the aft cockp
26 Ejazz : I cannot count the number of times a cell phone left on or used on the aircraft has blocked out our radio transmissions. The interference is the same
27 Post contains images Cloudy : cell phones anywhere are BAD. Whoever invented the cell phone ought to hung, drawn and quartered and the body flogged for good measure .
28 Post contains images Delta-flyer : Cloudy says......."Whoever invented the cell phone ought to hung, drawn and quartered and the body flogged for good measure" I reply....Amen!!
29 Post contains links and images Zanadou : Here's another link on this report: http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?201465 --->Zanadou!
30 Mandala499 : To the "No Cellphones in Aircrafts" Nazis and the "Cellphones in Aircrafts are OK" Nazis... Just kidding... to all on both sides... 1. Rules are rules
31 Prebennorholm : If cell phones really could cause some risk on an aircraft, then they should of course be more illegal to even hold in shut off condition than guns an
32 Greg : I don't beleive any of this bunk. I leave mine on all the time..with the ringer off (not that it would work anyway). As I said in another post..if you
33 Post contains links Ben : The UK CAA recently published this report: http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/publicationdetails.asp?id=751 ..which doesnt agree with your conclusion a
34 Post contains images Greg : Unless you go bag to bag...it's gonna be difficult to find out who leaves them on. Tricky at best...particularly if you try to actually search someone
35 CanadianNorth : this post is just sad. It really doesnt matter if cell phones are safe or not aboard planes, If the captain sais turn it off, then turn it off. beside
36 Greg : Of course you don't see the need for a cell phone. You're a child. Once you actually have a job..they are indispensable. Annoying, but indispensable.
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