Ly334 From Israel, joined Apr 2002, 292 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5418 times:
This morning (06 May 2003) on an AZ flight from Rome to Tel Aviv, after landing the pilot announced in the microphone : "Welcome to Palestine".
I think this is the most disgusting thing for a pilot to say, especially that after all the passengers are his clients and he needs to serve and respect them nicely.
I would give this pilot a punishment of non working for a few months and so he will learn his lesson.
Alitalia's reaction: "This pilot is not representing the company and we promise that he wont fly anymore to Israel."
Let me just ask you one thing: If the pilot is the commandant of this flight, isn't he representing the company???
BestWestern From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6510 posts, RR: 58 Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5342 times:
He's a company employee, but not a representative. They employ marketing to give the companies opinion, and pilots to fly aircraft... Both are good at doing what they do, and shouldnt try and do the others... otherwise this is what happens..
The pilot should lose his job for commenting on a very political issue as this that could possibly lose Alitalia a lot of traffic from orthadox israelis.
Enjoy memorial day today and independence day tomorrow. Lets hope by this time next year we will be closer to a solution to the problems in the region.
Salim From Lebanon, joined Jun 2001, 303 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5314 times:
He was right to do that. An air france pilot already did it. This is the real name of this land. I think he has been realy courageous . I think they should only stop letting him fly to tlv.
Avi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 922 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5261 times:
I wonder if he knew that today Israel remember its fallen soldiers and civilian terror casualties and he did it on purpose.
This pilot landed in Israel, a country that was born under a UN resolution. There is a 0% of truth of what he said.
If he had landed in the GS or WB he could say what ever he wanted, not in TLV.
BestWestern, I don’t know how do you remark a memorial day wherever you are but in Israel it’s not a day to enjoy. Tomorrow it something else
Mb339 From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 238 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5216 times:
I think that was a pilot's error and I'm sure he didn't want to offend anybody.
As some of you wrote, this is a situation which we can't make fun of it
Amir From Syria, joined Dec 1999, 1254 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
Hi,
funny to see the poor fact of todays life: whenever one criticizes israel he automatically becomes a antisemit! what a logic!
OF course the Captain of this AZ flight shouldn't Have made this remark (wheras it is partly true!) but a plane is a service industry and not a place to start political debates.
DoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5198 times:
Toda, how easy it is to just slam the label "anti-Semitic" on anyone who disgarees with Israeli policy.....I hate people who do that, it immediately stifles reasonable and necessary debate about the Israel/Palestine issue....I would think carefully be going around brandishing people as "anti-Semites" or speaking in a way which is anti-Semitic....
The pilot's remark was provocative, but I don't believe he should be fired/grounded......
Jcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 43 Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5200 times:
He was right to do that. An air france pilot already did it. This is the real name of this land. I think he has been realy courageous . I think they should only stop letting him fly to tlv.
Real courageous my ass. More like real cowardly, like your countrymen walking into crowded bars and blowing themselves up. Look on a map...where is Tel Aviv? Its no where near Palestine. I know your militant Islamic breatheren would like to believe that Tel Aviv is in Palestine, but it is not even disputed by the terrorists...errr....the PLO.
Ly334 From Israel, joined Apr 2002, 292 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5192 times:
Salim,
"He was right to do that. An air france pilot already did it. This is the real name of this land. I think he has been realy courageous . I think they should only stop letting him fly to tlv."
If you think he was right and "courageous" to do so, why do you think he shouldnt fly anymore to TLV, he should maybe instead receive a raise in his salary???
Todareisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2754 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5044 times:
The pilot's remark was provocative; it was provocative against the Jewish State, on the very day the Israelis are honoring the more than 21'000 people who were killed defending this country. That's an anti-Semitic act, no matter what you want us to believe.
It was meant to be offensive.
BTW...was it the same pilot who tried to land his A321 on the Tel Aviv-Jerusalem highway a few years ago...??
* * * * *
This discussions just sadly proves the time isn't ready for peace yet, on both sides.
It simply illustrates one side's total refusal of the other...
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
Racko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4839 posts, RR: 20 Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5018 times:
He should be fired simply for harming his own employer, Alitalia. Many Israelis will ignore Alitalia in the future, and this surely doesn't help a struggling airline in the current economic climate. Whatever he thinks about the issue, and whether or not he has a point, it's not up to him to use his position for this kind of remarks.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, RR: 55 Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4996 times:
Toda, dear chap, let me rephrase your comments, but with less anti-Arab nonsense and a tad more realism: "The pilot's remark was provocative against the Jewish State, on the very day the Israelis are honoring the more than 21'000 people who were killed destroying Palestine."
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Airlinefreak1 From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 259 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4943 times:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that..... It was called palestine before 1948, look it up in any atlas that was published during that time ...
why are there so many narrow minded people in this world .... Israel is fact , arabs cant deny this anymore , but palestine has the right to exist , ~ 25% of israel is palestine ..... i hope that someday the palestinian state would be declared very soon , side by side to israel ....
I actually respect the Alitalia pilot who was brave enough to say it ...
Jrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1097 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4922 times:
Ummmm..... you can't call that comment anti-semintic..... To say so indicates one of two things. Firstly, it could suggest that there is such a thing as a semite to be anti towards, which would mean that someone who is Jewish is of a distinctive race of humanity. Judaism is a religion. The second option is a linguistic meaning. Semitic is a reference to the language family that includes Hebrew. For you information, arabic is also a semitic language. Therefore any reference in favor of Palestine could not be considered anti-semitic. It also might not necessarily be anti-Jewish. Jews, Palestinian Christians, and Palestinian Muslims lived in relative peace before the Zionist movement.
This pilot's remark was probably not a professional thing to do. But it is not an uncommon feeling, and many who hold such feelings are not anti-Jewish. And yes, there have been many deaths at the hands of Palestinians. However, there have also been a whole lot of deaths at the hands of Israel's army. In addition, something like 60% of Palestinians in Palestine live in poverty. There is certainly suffering on both sides. None of this suffering will end until both sides are willing to sacrifice a good deal of idealogy regarding the land.
DoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4929 times:
Toda, it woudn't be provocative if the Jewish state wasn't so selfish; that land does not just belong to Jews, it belongs to Palestinians too, and I see no reason why it should not be shared. How easy it is for Sharon just to sit on his hands and do nothing until the PA stops all violence permanently. The PA has no authority over its own people, certainly little if no influence over the various freaks who go round strapping bombs all over their bodies - meanwhile, they happily build more and more settlements. As for orthodox Jews, they are all idiots, just like the Christian right in America and all the other religious fanatics in the world....I wish they would all just drop down dead so that rational, reasonable people could inherit the world....
25 Acvitale: Cedarjet and Salim And let us not forget that Palestine came from Judah and Israel thousands of years before Palestine existed.... It was only after t
26 Todareisinger: There is absolutely nothing wrong with that..... It was called palestine before 1948, look it up in any atlas that was published during that time ...
27 MASkargo: I think he should be applauded for that act of bravery. Israel does not exist to me nor to many countries around the world. The land rightfully belong
28 Petazulu: I am no big fan of Isreal or its people, but the pilot should be strongly disciplined. Comments like that are a reckless business practice that shows
29 Jrlander: Toda: For your information, my training in holocaust studies was by Deborah Lipstadt of Emory University. You may remember her, there was a huge case
30 Joni: This is akin to a pilot, upon landing in JKF, saying "Welcome to America". The United States is a country that is located in the Americas, just as Is
31 Todareisinger: Maybe you could enlighten us on the distinction between "antisemitism" and "anti-semitism"...
32 Exnonrev: Not only should the pilot be fired, (and forced to spend a month touring all of Europe's concentration camps) the next Alitalia a/c to enter Israeli a
33 Trvlr: Okay, let's clear something up. Israel = a country. Tel Aviv = in Israel. Those who think Israel (apart from the West Bank & Gaza Strip) is NOT a coun
34 BWIA 772: I find if that if anyone makes a statement against Israel no matter how paltry it is they are labled antisemitic and there is alot condemnation. I me
35 Jrlander: Toda: As Prof. Lipstadt taught us, anti-semite is a combine word indicating that the idea of semite exists. You could argue that since the term antise
36 Todareisinger: since the term antisemitism has become a commonly expressed way of describing anti-Jewish feelings Well, the word was actually created in France with
37 Cdgdtw: Yes, there is a time and place for everything. The pilot should reserve his political comments for a more appropriate environment. But since the subje
38 Cedarjet: AC Vitale: "And let us not forget that Palestine came from Judah and Israel thousands of years before Palestine existed.... It was only after the Roma
39 Trvlr: We hear all the time about muslim fundamentalism but rarely radical zionist. Ummm...maybe you haven't been reading the news lately, or something. It's
40 Ikarus: What's wrong with anti-zionism? I find the notion of religious states depressingly dumb (Ergo I wouldn't like to set foot in the Vatican, in Iran, in
41 Jrlander: I'm not necessarily advocating this position, however one could be against the idea of a Jewish state in the Middle East without advocating for the re
42 Ikarus: Let me clarify: I am not for the killing, or relocating, of Jewish people currently occupying Israel. I merely state that their original setting up a
43 Sllevin: Clearly, there's going to be a lot of opinions on this. However, let me sum up what I believe to be the mainstream Jewish viewpoints. 1) Judaism is mo
44 F+ Rouge: @ Airlinefreak1 & Co So then let's call Silesia, Pommerania and Eastern Prussia GERMANY again. You can look it up on any map published before 1945!
45 Jrlander: I'm not Palestinian, so I do not have specifics on this. However, I have read the auto-biography of the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, who is an Arab I
46 DaV: Exnonrev wrote: Not only should the pilot be fired, (and forced to spend a month touring all of Europe's concentration camps) the next Alitalia a/c to
47 Shamrock1heavy: Good for him, this is true name of this piece of land. -D
48 Shamrock1heavy: BTW, I am in no way anti-semetic, I want peace, that is all.
49 Olli: Come on!!! Please don´t make a big issue for such a stupid thing. I bet that the pilot didn´t mean to offend anyone. Regards
50 Luisca: His comment was tottaly out of place. But aside form that, the Israelis and The US media give very biased look to the problem. The arabs and the Israe
51 Chiawei: Well said jrlander Israel should have never been created under UN resolution in the 1st place. To forcefully create a state based on religion is ridic
52 Jrlander: Chiawei: I did also state that Israel does exist, and now 60 years later it still has a right to exist. And I feel a great deal of compassion for thos
53 Luisca: And IKarus. The Holy See (Vatican) was created In a Treaty in the Early 1900´s dont remember the exact year, it was given to the holy church as a "se
54 Hmmmm...: In all this thread, no one has brought up the most important element of the story: Whether this remark, "Welcome to Palestine", was pro-Israel or pro-
55 North county: The pilot should not be making comments like that… If he was joking it was in very bad taste, If he was trying to make a political statement – the
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