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8A Not A Window Seat?  
User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

On Sunday, I woke early for my 750am flight from LAX to PIT on USAir, connecting to BDL for my return home from my sister's wedding.

I hadn't really gotten a look at the plane before I stepped on the jetway. I got a look at the wing through the slots in the jetway and saw there were no winglets, so I assumed it was a 757. When I stepped through the aircraft door, I noticed two aisles, and reallized I was on a widebody. I figured it was a 767, since I knew that USAir doesn't have any 777s. I was right.

I went to my seat, which was 8A, and put my bag under 7A like I always do, then sat down in the seat. The I turned to look out the window and--

NO WINDOW!!!

I asked if there was an open window seat, and the FA told me no, there wasn't. I was heartbroken. I hadn't brought anything to read. I had nothing to write on. It was simply terrible. I had specifically been told I had been given a window seat, and had gotten a bulkhead instead.

I've noticed that many widebodies have sections where windows aren't put in or are covered up. I'd always figured this was for galley or lav space. What is the reason for these areas? Is there a structural reason? Is it something that the airline requests? Is that set up as a place where a galley *could* go? Or is it simply because Boeing and/or Airbus didn't want to put windows there?

By the way, the inflight entertainment system was broken, so I didn't get to watch the inflight movie (which probably would have been Chicago, which my parent's said was a great film) either.

Can you say bad day?


Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGr8slvrflt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1592 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

This comes up frequently: A/C ducts.







User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3331 times:

This is why you should check http://www.seatguru.com before selecting your seats.

On Boeing aircraft, it is usually to run air conditioning ducts up the side of the airplane. I've been on A300's in about row 9 (on American) with no window. No big deal as even when I have window seats, I don't look out the window anyway.


User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

No big deal as even when I have window seats, I don't look out the window anyway.

That's fine for you. I had a clear day all the way from LAX to MCI (which was part of our route), few clouds according to all weather reports and little haze. I was looking forward to a great view of the American desert, great plains and whatever else I could see.

By the way, thanks for the info. Can't they put the ducts somewhere else (like in the galley)?



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3295 times:

Elwood64151: I feel your pain. This same thing happened to me on my first ever 757 flight. It was on a Cactus flight from LAX to PHX and sat just in front of the second main exit door on the left hand side. I was a non-rev and I felt like I had been lied fooled by the gate agent. . .she had told me that it was definately a window seat. Boy was I suckered. I guess I could try to look at it from her perspective, maybe she truly didn't know. Oh well, live and learn, it was only an hour flight thank God.

DIA



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Can't they put the ducts somewhere else (like in the galley)?

Most galley layouts place them near the doors and they need cross-over ducts at places other than just the ends of the aircraft. As far as mid-cabin placement, internal layouts vary among airlines. On most domestic carriers, your seat location would be in Business Class where one window gone isn't a big deal.


User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3263 times:

This comes up frequently: A/C ducts.

On Boeing aircraft, it is usually to run air conditioning ducts up the side of the airplane. I've been on A300's in about row 9 (on American) with no window.

They may well use these blanked off sections to route air conditioning ducts, but the reason why they are where they are is to help sustain the integrity of the cabin against uncontained engine failures. If you look carefully, you'll find that the blanked off windows are in line with the engine's front fans, a position where the lack of windows and local strengthening reduces the risk of pressure hull puncture and cabin depressurisation if an uncontained failure occurred.

andy


User currently offlineXQ737 From Germany, joined Mar 2003, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

Hey Elwood,

8 month ago , I was booked on a LH flight from Frankfurt to Dresden. My seat was in the first row of the eco-class (seat A) . I had the same problem as you. It was terrible too. In the first minutes I didn't no what to do because all the passengers were boarded and I would not disturb the FA's with such an "small" problem. After Boarding I saw that I was not the only person in that row. And before I could ask the FA's for another seat with a window the other passengers in my row asked the FA's first. The 5 other passengers (the other row D E F had the same problem) asked the FA's and got a window. I was the last person with the same question but not with the same answer of the FA. She told me that there is no more window seat free. And so I was the only one with a "wall seat". Just terrible!!!


User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

N951U:

On most domestic carriers, your seat location would be in Business Class where one window gone isn't a big deal.

Not on USAir it isn't! I was a coach-class pax in the third row of Coach. It was five hours in darkness.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

Not on USAir it isn't! I was a coach-class pax in the third row of Coach. It was five hours in darkness.

I realize this, and did not say you were in Business Class. I was pointing out that in traditional configurations, that location in the fuselage would be in a premium cabin where one row spans more than just one window so the effect would be diminished.


User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

N951U:

Yeah, I figured that. But I didn't know if you knew about USAir's configuration.

You're right, it wouldn't have been a problem if I'd been in Business/First.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

As stated a few posts up, it is for safety. If the blade on the engine were the fly off those rows are right in its path. Almost certain loss of cabin pressure of the plane would happen if a window was there. The no window reinforces the plane.

User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

I had the same problems with British Airways on a 757. Seated behind the bulkhead we had no window at all... What a piece of crap!

User currently offlineAussiestu From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 780 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3041 times:


No window guys, well what a shame! Get real if that makes all the difference to flying then it beggers belief. How many times have you flown and got everything you wanted and then just one day you fly and dont get a window seat and the next thing we know you're on here complaining about it. It really is starting to get to be a boring forum!


User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

Airplane still got you to the destination you paid for, didn't it?

User currently offlineMD-87ER From Austria, joined Aug 2001, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2888 times:

Airplane still got you to the destination you paid for, didn't it?

That is not the question. If you ask for a window seat and the gate agent promises one to you with the best smiles and wishes for a good flight, than you realy will be upset if the "so called" window seat turns out to be not what you asked and promised for.

I had a similar experience last year, flying AA F100 MSP-ORD. Was already late by 24hours because of bad weather in ORD and when I asked for a window seat I ended up in the last row and all I could see was a big loud engine....


User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

The computer doesn't say there isn't a window there. Then again, I guess having a window to look out is more important than getting to your destination. For those who prereserved such seats, they were simply getting the seat they requested and it's their own fault.

User currently offlineZoomer From Netherlands, joined Dec 2000, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

To all you cool macho types who "don't need a window", let me tell you that I've been flying as pax for 45+ years and I still love to look out the window and see what I can identify out there. And I still like the window on an oceanic night flight so that I've got something to lean my pillows on to help me sleep. To those of you who don't have to pretend to be "seasoned and experienced" (ha-ha) macho flyers, get to know your a/c type configurations with the various carriers and write down in your diary (or whatever) where these no-window rows are for future reference. By the way, I have often been encouraged when I have seen dead-heading captains sit by a window with their noses glued to it for most of the flight!

User currently offlineAWA22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

We agents have no idea if their is actually a window in a certain row or not. My computer does not tell me, 8A is still a window seat in the airlines computer even though there may not actually be a window.

User currently offlineL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1650 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2683 times:
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According to my flight log, I have been on 1059 flights since 1966, except for one in 1947, and I still like to look out the window. I usually avoid these wall seats by getting a seat behind the wing, but not in the last row. But I did get stuck in one on a Delta 757 a couple of years ago while returning home from the last L-1011 flight. When I asked the flight attendant if I could move, she told me there was an open window seat on the opposite side one row up. When I moved over there, the lady in the aisle seat became very irritated with me because she thought she was going to get all three seats to herself. Out of all my flights, there were only about a dozen or so where I wasn't able to get a window seat. I would rather miss my flight and take a later one than do without a window.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA



Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Aussiestu:

You're right. It is most important that I got there. That's not the issue. The issue is I was stuck in what I was told was a window seat that had no window. I specifically requested a window seat. I was very disappointed when I found it wasn't and there were no other window seats on the plane.

And yes, we did pre-reserve the seats. One window, and two aisles if possible, certainly one aisle. We did this to make sure we'd get the seats we desired rather than get what we didn't want to sit in.

No, it really wasn't that terrible a thing, except that we had no in-flight entertainment, and the in-flight magazine was basically sixty pages of "Yea for Charlotte," which really didn't hold my interest, and not a great deal else.

If I've learned anything from this, it's to make absolutely sure I bring something to either read or write on.

AWA22:

The airline has the option of labelling "window", "overwing", "bulkhead", "exit row" and "wall", as well as other types of seats, on its seat maps in many reservations systems. USAir uses SABRE, which I know has this feature, since we had it at Vanguard.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4482 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

No window guys, well what a shame! Get real if that makes all the difference to flying then it beggers belief. How many times have you flown and got everything you wanted and then just one day you fly and dont get a window seat and the next thing we know you're on here complaining about it. It really is starting to get to be a boring forum!

How many times have you come online and found something relevant and cool to discuss on the forums? Then, the one time you find a thread that doesn't suit your fancy, you start whining about what a boring forum it is?

Bottom line: If you don't like it, don't read it.

Do different airlines plug different windows? It seems like I've seen several different variations on this theme.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineAWA22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

We dont use SABRE we use the very outdated SHARES system and it does not label window, bulkhead etc.....

APV............E.....N
BPV............E.....N
CPV............E.....N


Thats pretty much what our seat map looks like....PandVs are priority seating, E's are emergency exit..all I know from the map is A is window, B is middle and C is aisle....I would have no clue if one of those A seats really has no window there.


User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

I tink u guys have to presume that seats that are at the end of the row are considered "window seats" to check in agents. I dont think they really know the configuration of the aircraft as well as you guys do since they have hundreds of aircraft to work with daily.


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User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2104 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

I disagree with the theory that seats in the plane of rotation of the induction fan have no windows to prevent fuselage penetration.

Any of the fan blades can separate, not just the induction fan.

But let's assume for argument's sake that the manufacturers had this policy, the aluminum skin of the fuselage is no more likely to stop a thrown blade than a window. Case in point, the Delta Md 88 that blew up and penetrated the cabin and killed a mother and son.

photo

In the photo below, this DC-10 that had an uncontained engine failure in 1973. You can see the size of the engine can produce enough flying metal to take out 10 seats, not just one.

photo

Where you do find a section of fuselage that seems to be missing a window, or has a space between two windows that is a little wider, that can be where two sections of fuselage are joined. Naturally, you can't have a window at a joint.

You can see in this photo below that there are no windows missing from the sections adjacent to the engines in these photos.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stefan Roesch



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner





An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2550 times:



The same thing happened to me on a BWIA flight looking forward to my nice window seat only to find there is no window i was so piss. Thank God it was only a half hour flight



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