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Milwaukee To Become Focus City For NWA  
User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Beginning July 1, NW will add nonstop service to BOS, DCA, LGA, LAS, LAX and MCO from MKE. Flights will operate once daily and complement existing service to DTW, MEM and MSP (the number of flights / size of equipment will not change).

flights to Milwaukee begin July 1 (but do not operate on Saturdays+)
flights from Milwaukee begin July 2 (but do not operate on Sundays+)
+flights to/from Las Vegas and Orlando operate daily
flights to/from BOS, DCA, LGA and LAS operate with A319, flights to/from LAX and MCO with A320

NW0888 departs Milwaukee 7:20AM, arrives Boston 10:35AM
NW0887 departs Boston 7:40PM, arrives Milwaukee 9:15PM

NW0636 departs Milwaukee 7:05AM, arrives Washington-National 10:00AM
NW0637 departs Washington-National 7:30PM, arrives Milwaukee 8:30PM

NW1096 departs Milwaukee 6:30AM, arrives New York-LaGuardia 9:35AM
NW1095 departs New York-LaGuardia 7:40PM, arrives Milwaukee 9:05PM

NW0669 departs Milwaukee 8:30AM, arrives Las Vegas 9:20AM
NW0668 departs Las Vegas 11:10AM, arrives Milwaukee 4:30PM

NW0985 departs Milwaukee 5:45PM, arrives Los Angeles 8:00PM
NW0984 departs Los Angeles 5:30PM, arrives Milwaukee 11:15PM

NW1853 departs Milwaukee 7:00AM, arrives Orlando 10:35AM
NW1852 departs Orlando 6:30PM, arrives Milwaukee 8:15PM

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMnsourcer From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5141 times:

Is NWA trying to squelch Midwest Airlines? Just a thought as it is their main hub.

User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

NW has tried, unsuccessfully, to build a sizeable operation at MKE in the past (and post-RC merger). This time it appears to be well-orchestrated… it definitely looks like NW hopes to kill off Midwest, which is extremely vulnerable and appears to be looking into a full-service product. NW’s planned expansion has been under review for quite awhile, so this explains the recent termination of the Northwest-Midwest agreement.

User currently offlineMnsourcer From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

It is a real shame. Midwest is a fine airline to fly with! Great service and all that room. Not too mention those on board baked cookies... ha ha. I suppose, in today's world that will only get you so far. I sure hope that Midwest can make it and NOT completely turn into just another airline.

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5112 times:

Only one nonstop on each route? Business travelers aren't going to like that. Midwest has multiple frequencies on each of those routes. If Northwest wants to kill off Midwest, they're going to have to at least offer two frequencies on the LGA, DCA, LAX and BOS flights. They'd do better with two or three CRJ-200's on each route than one A319 or A320.

MCO and LAS are more leisure-oriented and won't need the frequency to compete.

Northwest probably won't make money on MKE-MCO with AirTran running it, and AirTran's in good financial shape to withstand a predatory pricing assault should NW be so inclined.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineMnsourcer From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Was just reading an article that AirTran is stepping up its competition with Midwest as well. Starting non-stop service to BWI on June 2 (I think that was the date). I agree, they (NWA or anyone) need more frequency to be real competition, but with NWA and AirTran nibbling at Midwest's market share, it can't be good.

User currently offlineAroundtheworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Hypothetically this would be the end of Midwest....if that becomes fact...anyone think NWA would then turn around and pull out of Milwaukee after devouring Midwest?

User currently offlineNdege From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 204 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5044 times:

I'd have to wonder about the logic behind that - kill off one of the largest carriers out of MKE then just leave the city for dead? Doesn't really make too much sense. I guess it wouldn't make too much difference, it's not that uncommon for people travelling out of MKE to drive to one of the Chicago airports to save time/money.

BL


User currently offlineDragogoalie From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 1220 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5041 times:

hehe, maybe NWA is trying to make them fold just to get some more DC-9's  Wink/being sarcastic

--dragogoalie#88--



Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
User currently offlineNdege From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 204 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

hehe, maybe NWA is trying to make them fold just to get some more DC-9's

The wings haven't fallen off most of them yet. Thank God for duct tape.

BL


User currently offlineDragogoalie From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 1220 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

Is there anything it can't do?

--dragogoalie-#88--



Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5023 times:

I've worked an awful lot of flights in and out of Milwaukee over the years and the planes have most always been full. Even the DC10's!

While I'm sure Northwest would be happy to see the end of Midwest, they certainly wouldn't try to put Midwest out of business and then pull out of Milwaukee. MKE is an important destination for NWA.

As for once-a-day frequencies in the new, above mentioned markets; it does seem that business travelers flying from Milwaukee to DCA, LGA and BOS would want a flight out in the morning and a return in the early evening...

Oh - and as for those DC9's (which I personally detest), our mechanics swear by them. One told me "These 9's will tow the Airbuses to the graveyard." and another commented that an Airbus is like a Nissan; you keep it for 10 years and then junk it."


User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

I spoke too soon regarding the once a day frequencies. I see above that it will be possible for MKE passengers to fly out to BOS, LGA and DCA and back in the same day.

User currently offlineDragogoalie From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 1220 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

I agree about the DC-9. I've flown them many many times, and have only seen three maintainence problems. One, my flight was delayed a little bit due to some problems with the spoilers. Then one time as I was getting off the plane, they couldent get the cockpit door open to let the flight crew out. They're probably still in there  Big grin. And one time as we were waiting to board the plane, they found out the entire water system had frozen because the plane sat overnight here in GFK when it was -20F or so. But I dont think that really counts as a maintainence problem, just no coffee  Sad (the pilot seemed really bummed about that and appologized many times). We were delayed about an hour for that because they had to wake up a mechanic who lived in GFK and was on call to come and shut down the water system to prevent it from expanding and breaking during flight. I think the fact that these aircraft are still flying really says something about Douglas, and Northwest's maintainence crews. Also look at the safety records, and how few delays there are (especially considering the weather at two of their major hubs DTW, and MSP). While I wish I was able to fly another airline out of GFK, every time I fly NWA, they seem to grow on me.

--dragogoalie-#88--



Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
User currently offlineNdege From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 204 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

Is there anything it can't do?

--dragogoalie-#88--


Save UA's ass.

BL


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4998 times:

The prospect of a NWA expansion is probably tantalizing to the city of Milwaukee and the wider region, but I think it's pretty clear what's going on here. If Northwest succeeds in killing off Midwest (which I doubt they can do), then I bet within 12 months their "expanded" operations at MKE will have ceased to exist. Milwaukee will become a cartel airport, whose only hope of survival is, ironically, Southwest Airlines.

I hope Midwest presses Milwaukee for help against NWA! The city would be foolish not to make every effort to keep this viable airline flying.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineAroundtheworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

A little evidence to support the "attack on Midwest" theory would be to look at Midwest's route map. Every one of the cities NWA plans to service non-stop will directly compete with Midwest. Granted these are probably the most popular cities out of MKE...just seems a very strange coincidence. You'd think they'd have managed at least one non-competing city.

User currently offlineNdege From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 204 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

If you want to be the big carrier at an airport and you have a small presence there, it makes sense to do what the successful larger carriers are doing in order to put yourself in a comparable position, or at least in a competetive position.

The market research has already been done by the airlines who service MKE. I think they're taking enough chances jumping into this, no need to go overboard until they see if phase one is going to work out for them. After they establish themselves they can think about other things.

BL


User currently offlineAroundtheworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

Eh, I don't think I agree with that at all. If a market is already served by one or more airlines from an airport I highly doubt that anyone would assume that means the markets are good. How full are Midwest's planes? How many people connect using other airlines to those cities? What cities aren't served by non-stop service that a lot of people connect to? A good example would be Seattle, which Northwest takes well enough passengers to daily on connection flights from MKE to justify a non-stop without any competition.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4898 times:

Lets see what really happens and if the NW flights are successful and do well enough to keep NW interested in MKE. While MKE is important to NW, NW much prefers flying MKE pax via their hubs, NW has tried to expand MKE several times in the past, and considered MKE a focus city at one time, and then lost interest and dropped the direct flights to non-hub destinations; lets see if this time is different.

For many years, until the 1980s, NW was the primary carrier from the New York area to MKE, flying mainly 727s on the route.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

MKE seems to be an odd choice for a focus city; especially since it is in the same region as two of Northwest hubs. If NWA is trying to kill Midwest, they might just succeed, especially in light of Midwest cutting amenities on flights (the amenities that made them successful). If Midwest really gets on the ropes, I see the potential for AirTran taking over the airline, as they could get a good Midwest-East Coast route network, which AirTran lacks.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4710 times:

Wow, interesting move here. Its already in PARS.

For those people who are saying they lack frequency? Well if worst comes to worst you just make a connection in DTW, MEM, or MSP a flight. Sure they only offer one n/s a day, but there are many more possible flight pairs. NW has a very loyal following from its history in MKE. Thing of this also as a preemptive move to prevent someone else coming in and cherry-picking routes out of this market. NW, by comparison to the other network carriers has the least amount of non-hub flying.

If you are in business and your company is losing money, you need to do what you have to do to get back to profitability and to prevent erosion of market share.


User currently offlineMnsourcer From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

I see the potential for AirTran taking over the airline, as they could get a good Midwest-East Coast route network, which AirTran lacks.

This is a very interesting scenario! Of course, these kinds of speculations are so extremely difficult to predict, I think this could be viable if Midwest was to fold. Although I DISPISE the thought of loosing Midwest (I love flying on that airline), this could potentially be very good for MKE. End up an increased NW presence and have a discount airline use MKE as a hub. Might even open the door for other discount airlines to open shop... Jetblue or Southwest.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4303 times:

In an earlier thread, I mentioned that YX and FL would make ideal merger partners. I was of course ridiculed a bit, but the logic is still there. Both operate 717's, and AirTran management has stated that if they could get 15 gates at a major airport they would be all over it. Now MKE may not be considered major, but it's no slouch either. Over 1 million people in the metro area and the possibilty of drawing from the northern Chicago suburbs, which an LCC would definately do. Throw in YX's MCI focus city and FL may be slobbering over this.
NW has historically been a most vicious retaliator to LCC's that dare tread on their turf. But could they defeat an AirTran hub in MKE?



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineDouglas DC-9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 303 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4262 times:

If Midwest goes down because of NWA all of Milwaukee will be furious over it! I can guarantee that NWA will not have very many people if MEH goes down becuase of them!


DC-9-32


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Photo © James Reppucci



25 Post contains images DCA-ROCguy : Throw in YX's MCI focus city and FL may be slobbering over this. NW has historically been a most vicious retaliator to LCC's that dare tread on their
26 N951U : Jim, Regarding Skyway: A lot of their B1900D routes are EAS routes, and I don't think the subsidy and little other revenue could support jets, or a lo
27 Jcs17 : If Midwest goes down because of NWA all of Milwaukee will be furious over it! I can guarantee that NWA will not have very many people if MEH goes down
28 KUGN : I welcome any airline's addition of routes to MKE. Living in northern Chicagoland, I've been looking for competitive fares and options both from KORD
29 Post contains images Sllevin : I agree with Jim that Southwest would love to 'bracket' Chicago by bringing additional services to MKE. Especially given the northward development of
30 Cdgdtw : Maybe I've been out of the loop here, but since when is Midwest Epx. going out of business? I just saw the April traffic report for them and there was
31 Keesje : Perhaps this is simply powerplay by NWA. If they want to consolidate the Midwest & Midwest Airlines don't want to cooperate. Midwest can choose now :
32 Post contains images Luv2fly : Also could it be that by NWA beefing up in MKE someone like AirTran might be slow to come in and do the same? Also I understand from reading on this w
33 Captcjmac : I as well welcome more flights into MKE. I think MKE is one of the most under rated airports in the nation. The people of MKE are very loyal to NW an
34 Post contains images Luv2fly : If I remember correctly MKE airport did a gate area over in SouthWest colors in a bid to attract them at one time. Also by NWA beefing up MKE SouthWes
35 Post contains images N659AA : Funny how I haven't seen the damn to NW posts for their insurgence into MKE. I guess it's just not as fun to bash NW for doing what it's doing to YX a
36 Luv2fly : NWA always had a presence in MKE it is not like they suddenly are coming into the market.
37 Noise : If NWA manages to squeeke Midwest outta MKE, where will Midwest move to? Omaha? K-City? Des Moines???? Midwest has to hold on to MKE. If not, the;re d
38 Post contains images Luv2fly : I myself believe that NWA is only going into the market to keep the likes of AirTran out.
39 Post contains links Tekelberry : http://www.nwa.com/features/mkesale.html http://www.nwa.com/offers/mkebonus/ They're putting these new routes on sale and showering their WorldPerks m
40 Luv2fly : No different than Delta and what they are doing for the additional West Coast flights to compete with AirTran's new West Coast service.
41 PSU.DTW.SCE : Its called competition, you can't just sit there and let your competitors eat away at your market share. Last time I checked airlines were deregulated
42 KUGN : Absoultely. If anything, MKE needs more competition, to bring fares to the MDW levels, if it plans to become become the real ORD alternative for north
43 Ti717 : Does this mean that BOS, DCA, LGA, LAS, LAX and MCO all get more one more flight to a NW hub or Just changing times? Where are the planes during the d
44 Scottb : OK, I'll take the bait and say that yes, this is one of the cartel carriers (NWA) trying to beat up on a smaller airline (Midwest). I can't really say
45 Luv2fly : Could this also be a reason. Right from NWA's web page, cut and pasted here. As of May 29, 2003, Midwest Airlines will no longer be a partner in the W
46 Milemaster : Shhh... You hear that? It's the hammering of a few more nails in the coffin. It's really too bad.. YX is a great airline offering a level of domestic
47 Luv2fly : I think they should restore the service levels and cut costs where they can to compete.
48 MIDEXJET : Word is that YX is getting a 25% reduction in costs from the B717's. I presume that this is in fuel costs, but am not sure.
49 Nwacrew : Let's not forget that Northwest has served Milwaukee since July 5th, 1927, when a Stinson Detroiter operated Northwest's very first revenue flight; a
50 Commander Data : Can someone please explain to me why the hell everybody is taking NWA's side? It's really ashame they can't keep track of luggage for $h!t!!!! Dada
51 CO777-200ER : Could anyone see a chance for Jetblue to get into this if NWA would kick out YX in MKE. I mean they have been in talks with adding service to Chicago.
52 Tekelberry : Commander Data, What are you talking about? Why would the USPS choose them to handle mail if they were so bad?
53 MCOtoATL : Many have mentioned that Airtran should take over or merge with Midwest. Sure, they have the 717 in common, and the routes could compliment the other.
54 Tekelberry : AirTran and Midwest merge? Nonsense, IMO 2 + 2 does not = 5 or, in simpler WORDS, they just would never mix
55 IndustrialPate : Could anyone see a chance for Jetblue to get into this... Perhaps. Don't forget that NW has maintained a large market share at MKE, even while they're
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