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Virgin Atlantic To Australia & Future Routes?  
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 381 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5274 times:

VS are plaqnning to add Australia this year, what other routes will they fly to in the future? Iraq I know of any others? What about Malaysia with their code shae on MH ending will they start their own service on the LHR-KUL route?


.....up there with the best!
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5236 times:

I suppose the same routes that were rumoured & talked about a few years ago... Dubai, Sydney, Toronto & Chicago reinstated... if and when they expand again. But I wouldn't hold my breath or anything. Chances are they'll wait until 2004 or longer

User currently offlineZizou From Australia, joined Oct 2000, 1535 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

Virgin has stated for a long time now, that they wanted to serve Sydney to London via Hong Kong. However, with SARS happening, I see it unlikely that Virgin will do this soon. So it looks like they will codesharing with Malaysian for some time yet...

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4918 times:
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If it weren't for the war in Iraq, 9/11 and SARS, i am quite confident VS would have already been flying to Sydney, Singapore, Dubai, Toronto, Vancouver etc. Wait and see what happens later on during the year.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

BA needs some competition on..

London-

San Diego, Phoenix, Denver, Seattle.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4810 times:

I doubt SAN generates enough traffic for two British carriers to be allowed nonstop service.

PHX and DEN might... but that would also dictate those routes being switched back to Gatwick. Then again, that wouldnt affect VS nearly as much as BA  Big grin


User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4798 times:

Is there enough demand on LHR-KUL-LHR to warrant another carrier besides MAS?

It’s unlikely, but possible that VS might choose KUL as their Asian stop-over point for services to Australia from LHR instead of HKG or PVG, but I think in the end, despite SARS, they would choose HKG as there is more business traffic between HKG & Australia than KUL & Australia and PVG & Australia and that is the kind of market that VS is aiming on capturing, of course. Especially since there are only two airlines that offer services between Hong Kong and Australia. Ansett used to do SYD-HKG-SYD with the 744 before they collapsed (not sure about MEL).

There is almost no chance VS will ever start flights to SIN. SQ owns 49% of VS and they would seriously object to VS competing with them on their home turf. But VS does codeshare with SIA on flights to LHR, so they do maintain a presence at Changi through that.  Smile

Hkg82.


User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4677 times:

Lufthansa flies to SIN and SQ codeshares with them so I'm not sure that SQ would object to Virgin flying to SIN.

However, I think with 10 747s to LHR a day with BA SQ and QF, the SIN-LHR market is saturated.


User currently offlineBusinessFlyer From Singapore, joined Aug 2001, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Virgin has been planning on flying to Australia via Singapore for since 1995/6. I remember reading in The ST that Nick Leeson's wife even became a VS stewardess in 1996 (or around there) so that she would have a route to see her husband down at Changi! But as somewhat usual with much of what Branson says, the reality was somewhat different. The route was never started and Branson instead shifted his attention to HK and Shanghai - does anybody know how those two routes are performing at the moment for Virgin?

As for expansion, I remember reading somewhere that he was very keen on Africa and South America - apparently these are very profitable for BA and he wants some of the profit for Virgin...


User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

Cathay is asking for UK-USA in return for VS getting HKG-Australia.



User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4644 times:

SQ has been asking for UK-USA for ages and never got it.

User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

I hope they consider adding Lahore in Pakistan, great potential there.

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Photo © Ben Pritchard




.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineMASkargo From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2003, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4563 times:

Hkg82... there is a huge demand between KUL-LHR... BA alone carried 100 000 passengers a year to KUL. A lot of malaysians travel via Singapore through BA/QF/SQ... MAS is easily able to maintain 18 flights/week...

Docpepz - i don't think there are 10 flights a day between SIN and LHR.
3 by SQ, 2 by BA and 2 by QF... that's 7!




User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4527 times:

Thanks for the info MASkargo.

Doesn't Royal Brunei also do SIN-DXB-LHR with the 763?

Yes, both CX & SQ are aching to do UK-USA! SQ has wanted to do SIN-LHR-JFK-LHR-SIN for a very long time. I’m not sure what specific routes CX wanted to operate, but I’d imagine the same or similar. Why is the British government so reluctant to give the two airlines the necessary rights? Do they think both CX & SQ will attract a significant number of passengers away from the other airlines that operate LHR-USA flights because of their world-renowned service & products? After all, the British authorities have allowed Air India & Kuwait Airways to do LHR-JFK-LHR. This isn't very to other airlines. Have the airlines voiced their objections or what? But the number of flights CX & SQ would operate on such routes will be very small compared to the other airlines (BA, VS, AA & UA – they are the only airlines allowed to do LHR-USA & they operate a multitude of flights everyday to the States).

The Hong Kong Government would allow VS to do HKG-SYD-HKG in a heartbeat if the British Government let CX operate flights to the US from LHR.

It’s a pity that politics plays such a heavy role in aviation. I hope this kind of system changes one day!

Hkg82.


User currently offlineMASkargo From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2003, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Hkg82... yeah...you're right. i forgot about BI. but that still does not add up to 10 a day!

MH also faced the same problem with the british government - as they wanted to fly KUL-LHR-JFK vv. They offered MH KUL-MAN-JFK many years ago which MH did not take up.... I don't know why. With malaysia in particular, politics plays a vital role in securing landing rights...especially since many of the flag carriers opt to fly to the already established changi airport...so MH gets stuck far behind! just read the threads about MH and paris a few months ago...



User currently offlineSpeedbirdyvr From Canada, joined Mar 2003, 168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4385 times:

VS did fly to Toronto from Gatwick for a couple of months. They inaugurated in June 2001 and discontinued a few months later after 911. AC and BA really need competition on this route. Being the 4th largest long-haul market out of London, Toronto was the crowning glory for VS as it was the last route on the top 10 biggest markets they still didn't serve out of London. I really wish that Sir Richard would return to Toronto as soon as this SARS thing is over, and have another great publicity stunt like a knight in shining armour trying to retake an embattled city or dressed in an RCMP suit like he did during the first inaugural.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Air New Zealand also flies between Los Angeles and London Heathrow.

I hope the issues can get worked out so that Continental, Delta, BMI, Singapore, Cathay Pacific etc can fly between the US and Heathrow.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

MASkargo: Yes, why did not MAS not take up MAN-JFK-MAN? That’s better than nothing.

Is it true that MAS wanted to do KUL-HKG-LAX-HKG-KUL not very long ago, but the HK authorities refused to give them the rights? Any idea why? I would’ve thought there would be a reciprocal agreement between the HK & Malaysian authorities. I always could see CX expanding its Middle Eastern network via KUL with fifth freedom rights, since there is a lot of traffic between KUL & the Middle East. You think HKG-KUL-JED-KUL-HKG sounds too far-fetched?  Smile

Hkg82.


User currently offlineAirchabum From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 769 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

Hi STT757

It's not just about the politics unfortunately...LHR only has 2 runways which can be used simultaneously and the airport is effectively full as far as runway utilisation is concerned. So the only way that new services can be started is for other airlines to give up their slots, and they aren't going to do that unless they can sell them for big bucks (as Balkan, Lithuanian, Adria, etc did recently when they sold slots to BA and switched services to LGW.) Incidentally Air India and Kuwait Airways also serve JFK from LHR.

To answer the original question, I can't see anything happening regarding new routes this year, but over the next year or two I can see the re-start of flts to ORD/YYZ and hopefully new services to YVR and/or SEA. Australia is definitely on the cards, probably via HKG. Other rumours are of services to Bombay, Abuja (Nigeria) and the Middle East (Dubai/Baghdad).

Cheers



Biggidy biggidy bong
User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

I think the issues revolve around cabotage, not just a simple technical stop. Or else flying HKG-JFK via YVR would have been a much easier solution. Which also is one of the reasons why MH declined the offer of MAN-JFK.

This has been going on for years, and now VS wants to carry passengers from HKG to SYD, CX would rationalize that why can't they get LHR-JFK? It's the same principle, effectively.

And the slot limitation in LHR is a non-issue, because that can always be negotiated. The government could have simply given the rights to the route for CX, and let them negotiate for their own slots thereafter with another airline (around two million pounds per, thereabouts). And there are always new slots to be had, the afforementioned VS has been steadily increasing it's slot allocation for the U.S. over the past seven years or so.

Why won't they do it, you ask...


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

Toronto is not going to happen as a VS destination. Also, you have to have in mind that any new (US) route takes about two years to start to pay back.

regards


User currently offlineBd1959 From Australia, joined Oct 2002, 450 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

Branson was interviewed Tuesday morning Australia time on Channel 9's Today programme. He stated that VS were "almost there" with permission to fly Hong Kong to Australia. More RB BS??

BD1959


User currently offlineSpeedbirdyvr From Canada, joined Mar 2003, 168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4107 times:

"Toronto is not going to happen as a VS destination. Also, you have to have in mind that any new (US) route takes about two years to start to pay back."

It already was 2 years ago, so it's very likely that they will return. However, it was served from LGW, not LHR.


User currently offlineOdiE From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

MH have been looking at other possible stopover cities for its trans-Atlantic services. Among those considered is Stockholm, Copenhagen, Berlin, Geneva and possibly Zurich. Munich have been courting MH for a very long time to fly KUL-MUC-EWR/JFK but they didn't manage to convince MH to launch trans-Atlantic services via MUC.

Yes, why did not MAS not take up MAN-JFK-MAN? That’s better than nothing.
Maybe because Manchester leck the yield London generates? London is better in terms of connectivity compared to Manchester. Also, according to one MH official, they are not that eager to obtain the LHR-USA rights anymore, but rather, more LHR-KUL rights. According to him, the competition between LHR and JFK is too intense that it will take a long time before the route become profitable. This was also one of the reason why MAS suspended the NRT-LAX flights.

Hkg82: I believe CX will prefer to use their mini-hub at BKK for their Middle East flights. If I am not mistaken, CX only have fifth freedom rights from Malaysia to Singapore and they are not planning to fly between KUL and SIN (once again, competiton play its role here. There are probably like 10-14 widebody flights a day in this 55-minutes hop) MH did request for fifth freedom rights at HKG but the HK authorities didn't grant MH the rights. Not sure if they will link HKG with LAX since they have daily flights to LAX. I would say they are probably trying to link HKG with either San Francisco or Vancouver.


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