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British Airways To Buy Airbus A330-200s?  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7314 times:

I can see BA ordering A330-200s in not too distant future.

B772s are too big on many smaller point to point markets.

B763s are getting inefficient :
-too cramped for new Club (therefore product inconsistency)
-too narrow for 8 abreast economy (well, nice for passengers)
-too wide for a little wider Traveler Plus seats (6 abreast = too wide)
-power/weight restriction (no personal video) product inconsistency.
-poor range (no Asia / US West Coast) options
-poor cargo capacity (no LD2)

I believe they will not wait another 6 years (for an uncertain 7E7) and follow their biggest competitors AF, LH and KLM.


Boeing die-hards, better get used to this ............ Joking..

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7287 times:

With all the money BA is raking in?

5-10 years down the line, MAYBE.

Still, in that time frame, can anyone say 7E7?


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

777236ER,
do you know if the flights to Dar Es Salaam and Kampala have heavy payload restrictions?Both flights must be towards the end of BA's 763's range.
Currently BA send the 767s on long-haul to:
Accra(rumoured to be upgraded to 772)
Dar Es Salaam
Kampla/Entebbe
Nassau and Grand Cayman
Detroit?
Charlotte and Baltimore .
Tel Aviv.
Any others?


I can't see BA ordering 332s for a while given that their 763s aren't too old either plus a large % of their 767s are for Euro routes anyway.


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7113 times:
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The latest BA 767 was delivered in 1998, that makes it 5 years old, brand new. Infact, the 767's fill an important role in the fleet, filling in on routes too big for a 777. Namely a handful of destinations in the Middle East, Africa and US East coast along with trunk European routes.

As for A330, i can't see BA orderin a new type for another 3 or 4 years, the same speculation surrounds the A380 also. Wait and see.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7089 times:

Providenciales, afaik, is also a 76 destination. ciao.

User currently offlineBritair From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 933 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Rod Eddington announced in the BA News (internal staff newspaper) last week that the entire 767 fleet (21 aircraft) will be phased out from 2005. The aim was to eliminate one more fleet type to streamline operations. BA is in final negotiations with the RAF to sell the entire 767 fleet as airborne tankers.

So the 767 fleet IS going, and at this stage there is no intention to replace them in that category.


User currently offlineLHR340 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7021 times:

I doubt they will get any A330s ...and that is sad news to hear about the 767 to be phased out  Sad I was just beginning to like 767's....Doesn't BA use most of them on high pax loads to Europe? such as Geneva/Zurich & Prague...

LHR340



A340 LoVeR! EC-GQK - LHR The Bussiest International Airport & 3rd Bussiest In The World!
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7378 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6873 times:
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What will happen to MAN-JFK then....will AA pick it up? I doubt BA would want to convert a 777 for a more appropriate configuration for here, unless they are going to add 1 or more long-haul destinations from MAN post 2005 so that a mini-fleet of 777s would be based.

David


User currently offlineATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1384 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6853 times:

The 767-300 ER can make the US west coast, Scandanavian use to run it from LA to Stockholm non stop which is aboutthe same distance and London.


Treat others as you expect to be treated!
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8114 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6834 times:

I can see the A330 in BA colours if the 767 leaves the fleet (and they aren't all 1998 vintage - some are a lot old, the ones I've been have felt old, much vibration and noise etc). The 757s are going as well, and I think they'll be replaced by A321s - I'm sure BA are getting lots of eval info on the A321 from British Med and GB Airways. The A330 will work it's way in between the A321 and 777. And in a way the 777 and 744 will eventually be boxed in by the A380 as well.

(I'm slightly pro-Airbus cos I prefer their products these days but have no real agenda but...) It's weird to talk about BA flying such a lot of Airbus - I think the A380 is inevitable and so is something to fit in between the A321 and 777 (A330 basically - the airlines probably share my scepticism that the 7E7 is anything more than the Sonic Cruiser v2.0). And the entire BA narrowbody fleet will be Airbus when the last 737-400s go. This is BA we're talking, you know, "Boeing Airways". Can Boeing regain their pre-eminence?



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6788 times:
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Providing the 7E7 get's off the ground and starts flying, it's in with a shout.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineBa299 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

I don't think that BA will buy the A330. Some internal voice say that in the future there are the 7E7 and a few B777-300ER to replace the B747 and some B777-200LR for the flight to SYD.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 6487 times:

It does not make sense for any carrier to be adding the 332 as a new type, when the 7E7 will enter service in 2008 and offer much improved economics. Also, there will be big discounts for all new 7E7 launch customers. The BA 763 fleet can certainly be operated efficiently until the 7E7 enters service.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1325 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 6478 times:

The old "will BA buy A330 debate!!"

If anything BA will buy more B777's for long haul ops. Isn't the B767 being replaced by the A321?


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7378 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 6465 times:
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757s are being replaced by the A321. Forgot to notice that poor range (no Asia / US West Coast) options was listed in the original post. They did MAN-LAX non-stop in 1993/1994 on a 5 times weekly basis.

David


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

Long-term BA could have 1 main long-haul fleet type:777 with the 7E7 suplementing it on thinner routes ie Africa,Caspian and CLT etc and maybe the A380 for thick routes eg Asian and Australasia+JNB.

321s will replace both the 752 and Euro 763s won't they?


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6369 times:

SAS doesn't fly any more B767s to the West Coast. Their last two B763 long range services are OSL-Newark and CPH-Washington, the only West Coast destination is SEA served by A343s. LAX is no longer served.

Of course you can fly the B763 on West Coast routes, but they are always restricted in payload. LTU once operated B763ERs from DUS to LAX and faced payload restrictions, or ask Delta why their Stuttgart-ATL service is affected by several fuel stops during the year. And ask Continental why they don't fly B764ERs from Houston to Europe...

B767-300ER/400ER = restrictions
A330-200 = no restrictions


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6338 times:

Of course you can fly the B763 on West Coast routes, but they are always restricted in payload. LTU once operated B763ERs from DUS to LAX and faced payload restrictions,

I suspect that's because LTU was running a high-density configuration. Operating 2/3 class service (i.e., with about 218-222 pax) LAX-DUS/FRA shouldn't be an issue at all.

Steve


User currently offlineATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1384 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

I know Udo I said "use to" fly to LAX, and Sllevin your correct but LTU was running single class 763er's to LAX.

[Edited 2003-05-16 21:19:04]


Treat others as you expect to be treated!
User currently offlineTF-FIW From Germany, joined Nov 2000, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

BA does fly the 763 to CCS-BOG too.
It's still a a good flexible workhorse both for longhaul or shorthaul operation.
Furthermore, I doubt that BA will buy the A330 as she is too heavy for shorthaul/midhaul operation. Hence not profitable for high density shorthaul routes like GVA, FRA, DUS etc.
Rgds
OL


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

or ask Delta why their Stuttgart-ATL service is affected by several fuel stops during the year

huh? Why this flight... it's not their longest (ATL-FCO, JFK-IST, etc are longer; and do not typically run into fuel trouble) nor does it fly any atypical routing which may compromise range, so you may want to consider your source on this one....


User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1837 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6132 times:

It all depends on the route requirements.

If memory serves, at the moment there are two 'pools' of pilots at British Airways - those who fly long-haul routes, and those who fly short-haul routes.

This doesn't really affect the 767 pilots, as they are the only pilot group who do two sets of work - shorthaul such as LHR-GVA and longhaul such as Accra etc.

Now, if BA wanted to make the A330 a 'shorthaul-only' aircraft then they could get some increased efficiency with having a massive shorthaul fleet of A319/320/321/330, presumably with the same group of pilots qualified on all.

However, this is unlikely to happen as BA do not need the volume on a regular basis on shorthaul.

Something occured to me-- what about a hub in Manchester. Use A330s for transatlantic, African and Middle Eastern services from that airport, taking some of the transit traffic (and therefore pressure) off Heathrow, opening up that airport to more O&D traffic from London (which will be in high demand with a potential 2012 Olympics). It would represent the most dramatic shift in BA corporate philosophy ever; but Rod seems to have the appetite for change!


User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3369 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6122 times:

I do not consider it likely that another hub will be formed in Manchester. Not on the size you are talking about. If BA wanted to do that, they would probably have done that a year ago to combine it with the Commonwealth games.


Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineWiLdmanVzla From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6090 times:

Perhaps two years ago I saw a BA B767-300 in CCS doing a nonstop flight to LGW... now they do it with a B777... but those planes for sure have the range!!!!!

*******


User currently offlineKFRG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

Udo,
And you don't think A330's flying to the WC are not payload restricted either? ANY aircraft is going to be weight restricted at some point. Why don't you go and ask Swiss why they don't fly their A332's to LAX, and MD-11's instead? In your logic:

B777: No restrictions

A330: Restrictions

-Tom


25 Scottb : Did you ever think CO wasn't flying 767-400ER's to Europe because there isn't a good match in capacity right now? They fly the 767-400ER from EWR to H
26 Trey : BA does not serve CLT anymore
27 Gigneil : The A330-200 certainly doesn't have any weight restrictions from most if not all of Europe to LAX, SAN, or SFO. The 333, on the other hand, probably w
28 RayChuang : I really doubt BA will get the A330-200. Especially since the LHR-SFO and LHR-LAX routes are still quite popular, and the A332's seating capacity--esp
29 Keesje : Don´t understand why some people think the 777 willdo for BA. Why do you think CX, KLM, MH, AF, SQ and others selected both 772 and 332 ? Because the
30 G-CIVP : "Don´t understand why some people think the 777 willdo for BA." Its quite simple. B777 and B747/4 for long haul routes. Airbus A319/A320/A321 for sho
31 Godbless : Udo, SAS still also operates ARN-EWR with the 763. I am not sure about any further routes though. Max
32 Godbless : And how could I forget... ARN-ORD is also a 767. Max
33 B747-4U3 : I don't think BA will get the 332. Most of the routes served by the 763s now are African routes- a continentent in which air travel is growing rapidly
34 Post contains images Keesje : Either - BA doesn´t want to fly thin routes anymore after the 767 or - the 777 is just fine and economical for the thin routes Both seem not in line
35 777236ER : - BA doesn´t want to fly thin routes anymore after the 767 or - the 777 is just fine and economical for the thin routes Both seem not in line with BA
36 Post contains links and images Keesje : There always be thinner routes or business demand for 2 flight a day instead of 1, or 3 flight a day instead of 2. BA can not ignore that demand .. if
37 Udo : - I didn't compare the B777 to the A332 but the B763 to the A332 in terms of restrictions on WC flights. Maybe some people should try to read more car
38 G-CIVP : I think you can't lump AA in with UA with UA. Its concentrating on B767/B777 and A300 for US domestic and Caribbean routes. United fleet configuration
39 Sllevin : And btw, have you ever thought about that there might be less cargo demand on a HNL flight than on a European service? Actually, there is. In fact, f
40 Lapper : david_intl, MAN-JFK is currently operated by BA Citiexpress, don't know if this would affect them or not. Udo, MAN-EWR on CO is timetabled as a 764 fo
41 Udo : Lapper, I forgot to add a 'IAH', of course I was only talking about B764 service to Europe from Houston. I know well their numerous B764 long haul ser
42 DC-10 Levo : I don't like the BA livery on the A330, but I think this deal will go ahead in the next 5-10 years. There are lots of airlines flying the A330 nowaday
43 ConcordeBoy : I think this deal will go ahead in the next 5-10 years What sense would it make for them to buy "aged" A330s in 10 years when they can probably have
44 CX747 : I don't see BA ordering the A330 when the 767s will be around until at least 2005 and within a year or two of that the 7E7 will become available. The
45 Arsenal@LHR : The A330 would be an odd duckling in a long haul fleet dominated by 747-400s and 777-200ERs. The 7E7 would fit much better into the long-haul stable.
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