Cathay Pacific Airways believes British rival Virgin Atlantic will face an uphill struggle to win rights to fly between Hong Kong and Australia by the end of this year.
Cathay Pacific general manager for international relations Andrew Pyne said yesterday that, unlike previous air services agreements, any new deals had to be open to any airline operated by a European citizen.
Pyne said that, if there were negotiations between Britain and Hong Kong with a view to letting Virgin fly from Hong Kong to Australia, then Cathay Pacific would want rights across the North Atlantic from Britain to the US.
``Cathay Pacific has been seeking the rights from the UK to the US for a long time,'' Pyne said. He said that, while Virgin wanted Hong Kong-Australia rights, ``Virgin has been instrumental in blocking open skies between the UK and the US''.
Rupertvander82 From France, joined Dec 2002, 411 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3369 times:
I don't see any reason why CX will get rights to fly UK-US routes if Virgin gets HKG-Australia routes. There are so many other airlines that have been fighting for those routes, and even SIA is not granted the rights. This comes even so when BA is allowed flights from SIN-Australia.
Hkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1228 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3361 times:
It's not a fair process, unfortunately. And yes, SIA has wanted to do SIN-LHR-JFK-LHR-SIN for a very long time, and even though the Singapore Government has allowed BA to make SIN their Asian hub for flights to Australia, the British Government has not given SQ the necessary fifth freedom rights needed to operate LHR-USA flights.
Well, considering a British-based firm owns Cathay Pacific (that firm is Swire Pacific), maybe there could be another angle to this, since this will be benefiting a UK firm? You can’t rule it out.
It's too bad politics & aviation are so intertwined.
Hkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1228 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
China plays no part in HK signing an aviation services agreement with another country, despite the fact that under the “One Country, Two Systems” framework, China assumes full authority over HK in only the foreign (state) & defense matters. Nonetheless, China has given HK full backing in any aviation packs the territory signs or may sign with another country.
The benefits to Chek Lap Kok & the people of HK are obvious. Competition has decreased & prices have gone up on the HK- Australia route as there are only two airlines that offer services between the two countries: Cathay Pacific & Qantas. Ansett used to fly between HKG & SYD with the 744 (not sure about MEL – can anyone confirm?) before they collapsed. CLK will seen an increase in the volume of transit passengers as those in the UK or the rest of Europe who wish to travel on VS to Australia will transit in HKG.
It’s only fair that if VS is allowed to do HKG-SYD-HKG that CX is to be allowed to operate whatever fifth freedom flights they want out of LHR (subject to the same frequency of flights as VS of course. Picky negotiations!) But it’s the UK Government after all, slow & inefficient, and in this case, MOST unfair!
Britair: Yes BA is allowed to pick up passengers in Singapore for their onward flights Australia.
Captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5108 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3291 times:
I can see Cathay Pacific's point.. It seems pretty fair. WHy should a Birith Carrier get route rights for aisan routes, leaving the aisian carrier to compete with them only in that area and not others? That would give VS an edge. Routes rights exchange would be in order.
Docpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1953 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3264 times:
Britair I've flown BA from Singapore to Brisbane before! They gave up Singapore-PER and Singapore-BNE for Singapore-SYD and Singapore-MEL which they operate currently.
If I'm not wrong, BA originally wanted to operate Singapore-SYD and Singapore-MEL IN ADDITION TO Singapore-PER and Singapore-BNE. But the Singapore govt said no to that until SQ could do a daily LHR-JFK flight.
Imagine that..... Singapore asking for 7 flights a week out of Heathrow in return for BA getting 28 slots to Australia ex Singapore. Isn't that a great deal?
PS: Why is it when I type "S.I.N" the server changes it to IN/WSSS blah blah blah blah?
Hkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1228 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3266 times:
Let's hope Swire Pacific pulls a few strings with the British Government.
Ultimately I would love to see CX servicing JFK 3 times daily: 1x daily 744 HKG-YVR-JFK-YVR-HKG, HKG-JFK-HKG 1x daily A346 and HKG-LHR-JFK-LHR-HKG 1x daily with the 744! It’s not too outlandish if you think about it.
CPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5858 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3206 times:
The question that also needs to be taken into account is that of the slots at LHR (aren't we already discussing this?). There are currently no more slots available, so CX and/or SQ would have to secure a new pair of slots from someone (their alliance partners?) or sacrifice some of their own.
The puzzle would be interesting though, since the aircraft at one point would have to spend quite a bit of time on the ground (on the other hand, they already do).
Britair From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 933 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3131 times:
Hello!! Just to clarify it was B-HOP who asked whether BA had traffic rights between Singapore and Australia, not me!!! I think I know the in's and out's of the Kangaroo Route and the JSA better than most having worked for BA and Qantas both in Australia and here in the UK.
Arsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 21 Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3091 times:
The slots are already there, all these airlines are asking for is rights to fly onto the US, instead of just turning around and flying back to Asia.
No they are not there. LHR is the most congested airport in the world in terms of slot co-ordination. In order for CX to fly UK-US flights it would need at least 7-10 slots a week to start a viable service, but they don't exist.
Danialanwar From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 421 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3060 times:
from experience BA has full right on their SIN - Australia routes, as has QF on their SIN - Europe routes. Put that together, time for SQ to be allowed JFK - LHR - SIN - SYD - LAX. What a great way to fly JFK-LAX but if UA goes under that maybe the only StarAlliance direct flight available then ...
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
Ikarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2958 times:
OK, so if Air India, Kuwait Airways, Pakistan International Airlines and Air New Zealand can offer UK-US routes, why not allow others, too? Just tell CX they can get it if they use another airport instead of LHR...
Either way, let's hope Virgin get the rights they want. It's about time...
GARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1495 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2910 times:
Somebody explain to me how a British Carrier flying between China
and Australia warrants a Chinese Carrier to fly from the US to UK????
What does the US carriers get out of this?????
Now if this was a US carrier that wanted to fly HK/AUST, then I could
see the argument.
Airplanetire From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1809 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2895 times:
I don't believe this is about what the US carriers get from it. This would bring competition to CX if another airline had fifth freedom rights on its services between HKG and SYD. That particular airline is Virgin, which of course is a British airline. I guess Hong Kong figures that if another airline gets to take a slice of the pie on the HKG-Australia market, then they should get a slice of the pie on the UK-US market, a very lucrative one. If I were CX, I'd do the same.